How To Prolong Lithium-Based Batteries - Battery University PDF

Battery University
BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries
Discover what causes Li-ion to age and what the battery user can do to prolong
its life.
Battery research is focusing on lithium chemistries so much that one could

imagine that the battery future lies solely in lithium. There are good reasons to be
optimistic as lithium-ion is, in many ways, superior to other chemistries.
Applications are growing and are encroaching into markets that previously were
solidly held by lead acid, such as standby and load leveling. Many satellites are
also powered by Li-ion.
Lithium-ion has not yet fully matured and is still improving. Notable advancements
have been made in longevity and safety while the capacity is increasing
incrementally. Today, Li-ion meets the expectations of most consumer devices but
applications for the EV need further development before this power source will
become the accepted norm. BU-104c: The Octagon Battery – What makes a
Battery a Battery, describes the stringent requirements a battery must meet.
As battery care-giver, you have choices in how to prolong battery life. Each battery
system has unique needs in terms of charging speed, depth of discharge, loading
and exposure to adverse temperature. Check what causes capacity loss, how does
rising internal resistance affect performance, what does elevated self-discharge do
and how low can a battery be discharged? You may also be interested in the
fundamentals of battery testing.
BU-415: How to Charge and When to Charge?

BU-706: Summary of Do’s and Don’ts
What Causes Lithium-ion to Age?
The lithium-ion battery works on ion movement between the positive and negative
electrodes. In theory such a mechanism should work forever, but cycling, elevated
temperature and aging decrease the performance over time. Manufacturers take a
conservative approach and specify the life of Li-ion in most consumer products as
being between 300 and 500 discharge/charge cycles.
In 2020, small wearable batteries deliver about 300 cycles whereas modern
smartphones have a cycle life requirement is 800 cycles and more. The largest
advancements are made in EV batteries with talk about the one-million-mile
battery representing 5,000 cycles.
Evaluating battery life on counting cycles is not conclusive because a discharge

may vary in depth and there are no clearly defined standards of what constitutes a
cycle (see BU-501: Basics About Discharging). In lieu of cycle count, some device
manufacturers suggest battery replacement on a date stamp, but this method
does not take usage into account. A battery may fail within the allotted time due to
heavy use or unfavorable temperature conditions; however, most packs last
considerably longer than what the stamp indicates.
The performance of a battery is measured in capacity, a leading health indicator.

Internal resistance and self-discharge also play roles, but these are less significant
in predicting the end of battery life with modern Li-ion.
Figure 1 illustrates the capacity drop of 11 Li-polymer batteries that have been
cycled at a Cadex laboratory. The 1,500mAh pouch cells for mobile phones were
first charged at a current of 1,500mA (1C) to 4.20V/cell and then allowed to
saturate to 0.05C (75mA) as part of the full charge saturation. The batteries were
then discharged at 1,500mA to 3.0V/cell, and the cycle was repeated. The
expected capacity loss of Li-ion batteries was uniform over the delivered 250
cycles and the batteries performed as expected.

Figure 1: Capacity drop as part of cycling. Eleven new Li-ion were tested on a Cadex C7
analyzer. All packs started at a capacity of 88–94% and decreased to 73–84% after 250
cycles. The 1500mAh pouch packs are used in mobile phones.
Courtesy of Cadex
Although a battery should deliver 100 percent capacity during the first year of
service, it is common to see lower than specified capacities, and shelf life may
contribute to this loss. In addition, manufacturers tend to overrate their batteries,
knowing that very few users will do spot-checks and complain if low. Not having to
match single cells in mobile phones and tablets, as is required in multi-cell packs,
opens the floodgates for a much broader performance acceptance. Cells with
lower capacities may slip through cracks without the consumer knowing.
Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, the depth of
discharge (DoD) determines the cycle count of the battery. The smaller the
discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full
discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on
Li-ion is fine. There is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full
discharge cycles to prolong life. The exception may be a periodic calibration of the
fuel gauge on a smart battery or intelligent device. (See BU-603: How to Calibrate a
“Smart” Battery)
The following tables indicate stress related capacity losses on cobalt-based
lithium-ion. The voltages of lithium iron phosphate and lithium titanate are lower
and do not apply to the voltage references given.

Note: Tables 2, 3 and 4 indicate general aging trends of common cobalt-based Li-i
depth-of-discharge, temperature and charge levels, Table 6 further looks at c
operating within given and discharge bandwidths. The tables do not address
charging and high load discharges that will shorten battery life. No all batter
same.
Table 2 estimates the number of discharge/charge cycles Li-ion can deliver at

various DoD levels before the battery capacity drops to 70 percent. DoD
constitutes a full charge followed by a discharge to the indicated state-of-charge
(SoC) level in the table.

Depth of Discharge cycles

Table 2: Cy
discharge function o
NMC LiPO4 depth of d
partial disc
stress and
100% DoD ~300 ~600
life, so doe
Elevated te
80% DoD ~400 ~900
high curre
cycle life.
60% DoD ~600 ~1,500
Note: 100%
40% DoD ~1,000 ~3,000 cycle; 10%
Cycling in
20% DoD ~2,000 ~9,000 charge wo
longevity.
10% DoD ~6,000 ~15,000
Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a
high charge voltage. A battery dwelling above 30°C (86°F) is considered elevated
temperature and for most Li-ion a voltage above 4.10V/cell is deemed as high
voltage. Exposing the battery to high temperature and dwelling in a full state-of-
charge for an extended time can be more stressful than cycling. Table 3
demonstrates capacity loss as a function of temperature and SoC.

Temperature 40% charge 100% charge

Table 3: Es
recoverable
0°C 98% (after 1 year) 94% (after 1 year) storing Li-i
at various t
25°C 96% (after 1 year) 80% (after 1 year) Elevated te
hastens pe
40°C 85% (after 1 year) 65% (after 1 year) loss. Not al
behave the
60°C 75% (after 1 year) 60%
(after 3 months)
Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of
0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to
4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life
can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and
3.90V/cell should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles.
On the negative side, a lower peak charge voltage reduces the capacity the battery
stores. As a simple guideline, every 70mV reduction in charge voltage lowers the
overall capacity by 10 percent. Applying the peak charge voltage on a subsequent
charge will restore the full capacity.
In terms of longevity, the optimal charge voltage is 3.92V/cell. Battery experts

believe that this threshold eliminates all voltage-related stresses; going lower may
not gain further benefits but induce other symptoms. (See BU-808b: What causes
Li-ion to die?) Table 4 summarizes the capacity as a function of charge levels. (All
values are estimated; Energy Cells with higher voltage thresholds may deviate.)

Charge level * Available stored Table 4: Discharg

Discharge cycles
(V/cell) energy ** capacity as a fun
voltage limit. Eve
[4.30] [150–250] [110–115%] below 4.20V/cell
but holds less ca
4.25 200–350 105–110% voltage above 4.2
shorten the life. T
4.20 300–500 100% reflect regular Li-
4.20V/cell.
4.15 400–700 90–95% Guideline: Every
charge voltage lo
4.10 600–1,000 85–90% capacity by abou
4.05 850–1,500 80–85% Note: Partial cha

benefit of Li-ion i
4.00 1,200–2,000 70–75% specific energy.
3.90 2,400–4,000 60–65% * Similar life cyc

batteries with dif
levels on full cha
3.80 See note 35–40%
** Based on a ne
3.70 See note 30% and less
100% capacity w
the full voltage.
Experiment: Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden, reports that using a

reduced charge level of 50% SOC increases the lifetime expectancy of the vehicle Li-
ion battery by 44–130%.
Most chargers for mobile phones, laptops, tablets and digital cameras charge Li-
ion to 4.20V/cell. This allows maximum capacity, because the consumer wants
nothing less than optimal runtime. Industry, on the other hand, is more concerned
about longevity and may choose lower voltage thresholds. Satellites and electric
vehicles are such examples.
For safety reasons, many lithium-ions cannot exceed 4.20V/cell. (Some NMC are
the exception.) While a higher voltage boosts capacity, exceeding the voltage
shortens service life and compromises safety. Figure 5 demonstrates cycle count
as a function of charge voltage. At 4.35V, the cycle count of a regular Li-ion is cut
in half.

Figure 5: Effects on cycle life at elevated charge voltages. Higher charge voltages boo
lowers cycle life and compromises safety.
Source: Choi et al. (2002)
Besides selecting the best-suited voltage thresholds for a given application, a

regular Li-ion should not remain at the high-voltage ceiling of 4.20V/cell for an
extended time. The Li-ion charger turns off the charge current and the battery
voltage reverts to a more natural level. This is like relaxing the muscles after a
strenuous exercise. (See BU-409: Charging Lithium-ion)
Figure 6 illustrates dynamic stress tests (DST) reflecting capacity loss when
cycling Li-ion at various charge and discharge bandwidths. The largest capacity
loss occurs when discharging a fully charged Li-ion to 25 percent SoC (black); the
loss would be higher if fully discharged. Cycling between 85 and 25 percent
(green) provides a longer service life than charging to 100 percent and discharging
to 50 percent (dark blue). The smallest capacity loss is attained by charging Li-ion
to 75 percent and discharging to 65 percent. This, however, does not fully utilize
the battery. High voltages and exposure to elevated temperature is said to degrade
the battery quicker than cycling under normal condition. (Nissan Leaf case)

Figure 6: Capacity loss as a function of charge and discharge bandwidth.*
Charging and discharging Li-ion only partially prolongs battery life but reduces utilizatio
Case 1: 75–65% SoC offers longest cycle life but delivers only 90,000 energy units (EU)
battery.
Case 2: 75–25% SoC has 3,000 cycles (to 90% capacity) and delivers 150,000 EU. Utiliz
(EV battery, new.)
Case 3: 85–25% SoC has 2,000 cycles. Delivers 120,000 EU. Uses 60% of battery.
Case 4: 100–25% SoC; long runtime with 75% use of battery. Has short life. (Mobile pho
Courtesy: ResearchGate – Modeling of Lithium-Ion Battery Degradation for Cell Life Assessment.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303890624_Modeling_of_Lithium-
Ion_Battery_Degradation_for_Cell_Life_Assessment
* Discrepancies exist between Table 2 and Figure 6 on cycle count. No clear

explanations are available other than assuming differences in battery quality and
test methods. Variances between low-cost consumer and durable industrial
grades may also play a role. Capacity retention will decline more rapidly at
elevated temperatures than at 20ºC.
Only a full cycle provides the specified energy of a battery. With a modern Energy
Cell, this is about 250Wh/kg, but the cycle life will be compromised. All being
linear, the life-prolonging mid-range of 85-25 percent reduces the energy to 60
percent and this equates to moderating the specific energy density from
250Wh/kg to 150Wh/kg. Mobile phones are consumer goods that utilize the full
energy of a battery. Industrial devices, such as the EV, typically limit the charge to
85% and discharge to 25%, or 60 percent energy usability, to prolong battery life.
(See Why Mobile Phone Batteries do not last as long as an EV Battery).
Increasing the cycle depth also raises the internal resistance of the Li-ion cell.
Figure 7 illustrates a sharp rise at a cycle depth of 61 percent measured with the
DC resistance method. (See also BU-802a: How does Rising Internal Resistance
affect Performance?) The resistance increase is permanent.
Figure 7: Sharp rise in internal resistance by increasing cycle depth of Li-ion.

Note: DC method delivers different internal resistance readings than with the AC
method (green frame). For best results, use the DC method to calculate loading.
Source: Technische Universität München (TUM)
Figure 8 extrapolates the data from Figure 6 to expand the predicted cycle life of
Li-ion by using an extrapolation program that assumes linear decay of battery
capacity with progressive cycling. If this were true, then a Li-ion battery cycled
within 75%–25% SoC (blue) would fade to 74% capacity after 14,000 cycles. If this
battery were charged to 85% with same depth-of-discharge (green), the capacity
would drop to 64% at 14,000 cycles, and with a 100% charge with same DoD
(black), the capacity would drop to 48%. For unknown reasons, real-life expectancy
tends to be lower than in simulated modeling. (See BU-208: Cycling Performance)

Figure 8: Predictive modeling of battery life by extrapolation.

Li-ion batteries are charged to three different SoC levels and the cycle life
modelled. Limiting the charge range prolongs battery life but decreases energy
delivered. This reflects in increased weight and higher initial cost.
With permission to use. Interpolation/extrapolation by OriginLab.
Battery manufacturers often specify the cycle life of a battery with an 80 DoD. This
is practical because batteries should retain some reserve before charge under
normal use. (See BU-501: Basics about Discharging, “What Constitutes a
Discharge Cycle”) The cycle count on DST (dynamic stress test) differs with
battery type, charge time, loading protocol and operating temperature. Lab tests
often get numbers that are not attainable in the field.
What Can the User Do?
Environmental conditions, not cycling alone, govern the longevity of lithium-ion

batteries. The worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated
temperatures. Battery packs do not die suddenly, but the runtime gradually
shortens as the capacity fades.
Lower charge voltages prolong battery life and electric vehicles and satellites take
advantage of this. Similar provisions could also be made for consumer devices,
but these are seldom offered; planned obsolescence takes care of this.
A laptop battery could be prolonged by lowering the charge voltage when

connected to the AC grid. To make this feature user-friendly, a device should
feature a “Long Life” mode that keeps the battery at 4.05V/cell and offers a SoC of
about 80 percent. One hour before traveling, the user requests the “Full Capacity”
mode to bring the charge to 4.20V/cell.
The question is asked, “Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when
not in use?” Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because
charging stops when the Li-ion battery is full. A topping charge is only applied
when the battery voltage drops to a certain level. Most users do not remove the AC
power, and this practice is safe.
Modern laptops run cooler than older models and reported fires are fewer. Always
keep the airflow unobstructed when running electric devices with air-cooling on a
bed or pillow. A cool laptop extends battery life and safeguards the internal
components. Energy Cells, which most consumer products have, should be
charged at 1C or less. Avoid so-called ultra-fast chargers that claim to fully charge
Li-ion in less than one hour.
Last updated 2020-09-17

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Basics You Should Know
Introduction
BU-001: Sharing Battery Knowledge
BU-002: Introduction
BU-003: Dedication
Crash Course on Batteries
BU-101: When Was the Battery Invented?
BU-102: Early Innovators
BU-103: Global Battery Markets
BU-103a: Battery Breakthroughs: Myth or Fact?
BU-104: Getting to Know the Battery
BU-104a: Comparing the Battery with Other Power Sources
BU-104b: Battery Building Blocks
BU-104c: The Octagon Battery – What makes a Battery a Battery
BU-105: Battery Definitions and what they mean
BU-106: Advantages of Primary Batteries
BU-106a: Choices of Primary Batteries
BU-107: Comparison Table of Secondary Batteries
Battery Types
BU-201: How does the Lead Acid Battery Work?
BU-201a: Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM)
BU-201b: Gel Lead Acid Battery
BU-202: New Lead Acid Systems
BU-203: Nickel-based Batteries
BU-204: How do Lithium Batteries Work?
BU-205: Types of Lithium-ion
BU-206: Lithium-polymer: Substance or Hype?
BU-208: Cycling Performance
BU-209: How does a Supercapacitor Work?
BU-210: How does the Fuel Cell Work?
BU-210a: Why does Sodium-sulfur need to be heated
BU-210b: How does the Flow Battery Work?
BU-211: Alternate Battery Systems
BU-212: Future Batteries
BU-214: Summary Table of Lead-based Batteries
BU-215: Summary Table of Nickel-based Batteries
BU-216: Summary Table of Lithium-based Batteries
BU-217: Summary Table of Alternate Batteries
BU-218: Summary Table of Future Batteries
Packaging and Safety
BU-301: A look at Old and New Battery Packaging
BU-301a: Types of Battery Cells
BU-302: Series and Parallel Battery Configurations
BU-303: Confusion with Voltages
BU-304: Why are Protection Circuits Needed?
BU-304a: Safety Concerns with Li-ion
BU-304b: Making Lithium-ion Safe
BU-304c: Battery Safety in Public
BU-305: Building a Lithium-ion Pack
BU-306: What is the Function of the Separator?
BU-307: How does Electrolyte Work?
BU-308: Availability of Lithium
BU-309: How does Graphite Work in Li-ion?
BU-310: How does Cobalt Work in Li-ion?
BU-311: Battery Raw Materials
Charge Methods
BU-401: How do Battery Chargers Work?
BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers
BU-402: What Is C-rate?
BU-403: Charging Lead Acid
BU-404: What is Equalizing Charge?
BU-405: Charging with a Power Supply
BU-406: Battery as a Buffer
BU-407: Charging Nickel-cadmium
BU-408: Charging Nickel-metal-hydride
BU-409: Charging Lithium-ion
BU-409a: Why do Old Li-ion Batteries Take Long to Charge?
BU-410: Charging at High and Low Temperatures
BU-411: Charging from a USB Port
BU-412: Charging without Wires
BU-413: Charging with Solar, Turbine
BU-413a: How to Store Renewable Energy in a Battery
BU-414: How do Charger Chips Work?
BU-415: How to Charge and When to Charge?
Discharge Methods
BU-501: Basics about Discharging
BU-501a: Discharge Characteristics of Li-ion
BU-502: Discharging at High and Low Temperatures
BU-503: How to Calculate Battery Runtime
BU-504: How to Verify Sufficient Battery Capacity
"Smart" Battery
BU-601: How does a Smart Battery Work?
BU-602: How does a Battery Fuel Gauge Work?
BU-603: How to Calibrate a “Smart” Battery
BU-604: How to Process Data from a “Smart” Battery
Close Part One Menu
The Battery and You
From Birth to Retirement

BU-701: How to Prime Batteries
BU-702: How to Store Batteries
BU-703: Health Concerns with Batteries
BU-704: How to Transport Batteries
BU-704a: Shipping Lithium-based Batteries by Air
BU-704b: CAUTION & Overpack Labels
BU-704c: Class 9 Label
BU-704d: NFPA 704 Rating
BU-705: How to Recycle Batteries
BU-705a: Battery Recycling as a Business
BU-706: Summary of Do’s and Don’ts
How to Prolong Battery Life
BU-801: Setting Battery Performance Standards
BU-801a: How to Rate Battery Runtime
BU-801b: How to Define Battery Life
BU-802: What Causes Capacity Loss?
BU-802a: How does Rising Internal Resistance affect Performance?
BU-802b: What does Elevated Self-discharge Do?
BU-802c: How Low can a Battery be Discharged?
BU-803: Can Batteries Be Restored?
BU-803a: Cell Matching and Balancing
BU-803b: What causes Cells to Short?
BU-803c: Loss of Electrolyte
BU-804: How to Prolong Lead-acid Batteries
BU-804a: Corrosion, Shedding and Internal Short
BU-804b: Sulfation and How to Prevent it
BU-804c: Acid Stratification and Surface Charge
BU-805: Additives to Boost Flooded Lead Acid
BU-806: Tracking Battery Capacity and Resistance as part of Aging
BU-806a: How Heat and Loading affect Battery Life
BU-807: How to Restore Nickel-based Batteries
BU-807a: Effect of Zapping
BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries
BU-808a: How to Awaken a Sleeping Li-ion
BU-808b: What Causes Li-ion to Die?
BU-808c: Coulombic and Energy Efficiency with the Battery
BU-809: How to Maximize Runtime
BU-810: What Everyone Should Know About Aftermarket Batteries
Battery Testing and Monitoring
BU-901: Fundamentals in Battery Testing
BU-902: How to Measure Internal Resistance
BU-902a: How to Measure CCA
BU-903: How to Measure State-of-charge
BU-904: How to Measure Capacity
BU-905: Testing Lead Acid Batteries
BU-905a: Testing Starter Batteries in Vehicles
BU-906: Testing Nickel-based Batteries
BU-907: Testing Lithium-based Batteries
BU-907a: Battery Rapid-test Methods
BU-908: Battery Management System (BMS)
BU-909: Battery Test Equipment
BU-910: How to Repair a Battery Pack
BU-911: How to Repair a Laptop Battery
BU-912: How to Test Mobile Phone Batteries
BU-913: How to Maintain Fleet Batteries
BU-914: Battery Test Summary Table
Close Part Two Menu
Batteries as Power Source
Amazing Value of a Battery

BU-1001: Batteries in Industries
BU-1002: Electric Powertrain, then and now
BU-1002a: Hybrid Electric Vehicles and the Battery
BU-1002b: Environmental Benefit of the Electric Powertrain
BU-1003: Electric Vehicle (EV)
BU-1003a: Battery Aging in an Electric Vehicle (EV)
BU-1004: Charging an Electric Vehicle
BU-1005: Does the Fuel Cell-powered Vehicle have a Future?
BU-1006: Cost of Mobile and Renewable Power
BU-1007: Net Calorific Value
BU-1008: Working towards Sustainability
BU-1009: Battery Paradox - Afterword
Information
BU-1101: Glossary
BU-1102: Abbreviations
BU-1103: Bibliography
BU-1104: About the Author
BU-1105: About Cadex
BU-1403: Author’s Creed
Learning Tools
BU-1501 Battery History
BU-1502 Basics about Batteries
BU-1503 How to Maintain Batteries
BU-1504 Battery Test & Analyzing Devices
BU-1505 Short History of Cadex
Battery Pool
Risk Management in Batteries
Predictive Test Methods for Starter Batteries
Why Mobile Phone Batteries do not last as long as an EV Battery
Battery Rapid-test Methods
How to Charge Li-ion with a Parasitic Load
Ultra-fast Charging
Assuring Safety of Lithium-ion in the Workforce
Diagnostic Battery Management
Tweaking the Mobile Phone Battery
Battery Test Methods
Battery Testing and Safety
How to Make Battery Performance Transparent
Battery Diagnostics On-the-fly
Making Battery State-of-health Transparent
Batteries will eventually die, but when and how?
Why does Pokémon Go rob so much Battery Power?
How to Care for the Battery
How to Rate Battery Runtime
Tesla’s iPhone Moment — How the Powerwall will Change Global Energy
Use
Painting the Battery Green by giving it a Second Life
Charging without Wires — A Solution or Laziness
What everyone should know about Battery Chargers
A Look at Cell Formats and how to Build a good Battery
Battery Breakthroughs — Myth or Fact?
Rapid-test Methods that No Longer Work
Shipping Lithium-based Batteries by Air
How to make Batteries more Reliable and Longer Lasting
What causes Lithium-ion to die?
Safety of Lithium-ion Batteries
Recognizing Battery Capacity as the Missing Link
Managing Batteries for Warehouse Logistics
Caring for your Starter Battery
Giving Batteries a Second Life
How to Make Batteries in Medical Devices More Reliable
Possible Solutions for the Battery Problem on the Boeing 787
Impedance Spectroscopy Checks Battery Capacity in 15 Seconds
How to Improve the Battery Fuel Gauge
Examining Loading Characteristics on Primary and Secondary Batteries
Language Pool
BU-001: Compartir conocimiento sobre baterías
BU-002: Introducción
BU-003: Dedicatoria
BU-104: Conociendo la Batería
BU-302: Configuraciones de Baterías en Serie y Paralelo
Batteries in a Portable World
Change-log of “Batteries in a Portable World,” 4th edition: Chapters 1 - 3
Change-log of “Batteries in a Portable World,” 4th edition: Chapters 4 - 10
Close Part Three Menu
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Comments (578)
On October 21, 2010 at 10:38am
John Vanderkooy wrote:
I am grateful to Cadex Electronics for the whole website explaining batteries. It is really
helpful to restore useful units, assess questionable ones, and the explanations are at a
“university” level. Thanks.
On October 26, 2010 at 5:29pm
pamela knowler wrote:
How long do I charge a new laptop battery before use? The battery arrived partially
charged and information suggests I charge it fully before using. I can’t seem to find any
information about how long to charge it…...it’s a lithium ion 9 hour (lenovo) laptop battery.
thanks
Dennis Lackey wrote:
10-28-10, I sell cell phones and other devices that use lithium batteries and I have been
misinforming my customers inregardes to charging requirements of their batteries. ireally
found the information reall useful. Thanks, Dennis
Taurug Baca wrote:
What is 1C? What is a C?
On November 6, 2010 at 2:28am
Fred B wrote:
Taurug Baca wrote: What is 1C? What is a C?

To quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_charger:
“Charge rate is often denoted as C or C-rate and signifies a charge or discharge rate equal
to the capacity of a battery in one hour. For a 1.6Ah battery, C = 1.6A. A charge rate of C/2
= 0.8A would need two hours ... to fully charge the battery from an empty state, if
supported by the battery. This also assumes that the battery is 100% efficient at absorbing
the charge.”
On November 13, 2010 at 3:38pm
James wrote:
What about overcharging? What are the effects of leaving a Lithium-ion battery charging
when at full capacity?
James wrote:
Also, is there an ideal range to charge/discharge the battery in e.g. 40%-70%, ensuring a
partial discharge?
Carlos Jordan wrote:
I really appreciate your technical info on Lithium-ion batteries. I recently purchased a

wonderful Panasonic Camcorder, which uses such a battery, and your advice not to fully
discarge, before re-charging is so very helpful, as I thought according to the manual, it was
necessary to discharge fully.
As James asked above, what is the ideal partial discharge, before charging again?
Thanking you kindly for your help.
nygus wrote:
Sadly, macbooks (and other laptops) run much slower on fixed power (even 4x slower),
when battery is removed… so battery dies very quickly. I think they use battery as capacitor
to support short demands of higher power.
David wrote:
If it is better to have the battery charged to 40% and then stored while on main power, why
do the laptop manufacturers not program the BIOS to have an option to charge to 40% and
stop? I am always on fixed power, the problem with removing the battery at 40% is that I
would be vulnerable to power outages. With the battery still inside the laptop charged to
40% I would be saving my battery, saving power and saving my data in the event of a main-
power failure. Does anyone know if there is a software out there which could charge to
40% and stop? If so, please let me know.
Patrick Woo wrote:
How frequent should I apply a full discharge to recalibrate the fuel guage?
Every 30 charges sound very frequent to me if your laptop alternate between battery
power and fixed power many times a days.
Andy wrote:
“Frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible”

and
“A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem”
How are these recommendations compatible? It is really safe to *completely* discharge

the battery? Wouldn’t it die after a single *full* discharge?
On December 2, 2010 at 7:22am
Mehper C. Palavuzlar wrote:
@David:
Follow this question on SuperUser.com:
“Software to hold battery at 50% charge level”

http://superuser.com/questions/217480/software-to-hold-battery-at-50-charge-level
On December 7, 2010 at 9:19pm

Dave wrote:
Does freezing cause dammage to the batery? Or does using the battery in a cold or frozen
state cause the dammage? Can a battery be frozen allowed to thaw and be fine?
Andrew wrote:
@David
You do not want to leave your battery in your laptop even if would remain at 40% because
your laptop generates quite a bit of heat from use which is harmful to the batteries. The
lithium batteries should be stored at 40% AND in a cool place.
Phil wrote:
This is one of the articles that I was reading about caring for your laptop batteries.
Carol Nemetz wrote:
I removed battery for a number of hours. Whn I replaced it the battery icon read"plugged
in, not charging” I have had this problem with not chargeing a number of times. After 4
attempts, Gateway repaired it. The last time they replaced the motherboard and installed a
new battery.All was well until I removed he battery and replaced it
Fede wrote:
Most of the time I use my laptop at work. I use it without the battery and I keep it at 40%.
What I noticed is that if I put the battery again after a few days the charge had lowered to
30% for example.
So, If I the ideal storage is at 40% but after a few days the charge drops to 30%, how can
you keep it stored at 40%?

Daniel wrote:
Thank you for this infomation, people complain with the performance of their laptops, just
maintain and look after your bleeming laptop!
Thanks to Battery University for this infomation
Jaime Blanco wrote:
I have not seen that this question is answered… so I will add my question to the queue…. Is
there an ideal rate of when to charge the battery ? eg. 40% ... or 70% ?? BTW… With this
article I have finally understand how to use my battery… thx!!! I was living a lie.. and… in the
past… I knew battery industry had evolved this years..
On January 1, 2011 at 8:32am
Gcat122 wrote:
The Verizon sales clerk insisted that I not leave my droid 2 on the charger for more than 4
hours or the battery would be damaged. I have trouble believing a new smartphone would
be dumb enough to kill batteries. Is he wrong or is the manufacturer trying to sell more
batteries?
Ike wrote:
Gcat122, properly made Li-Ions should have built-in protection that prevents problems
caused by overcharge. However, you may have heard about massive battery recalls in the
recent years due to quality problems causing overheating or even explosions - so his
suggestion may have been related “just in case” caution.
Normally, a quality charger will notice when the battery is full and cease attempts to
overload it. But it’been proven that all chargers aren’t that smart, especially generic brand
ones that may apply charging methods unsuitable for Li-Ion type.
On January 6, 2011 at 6:22pm
Niall wrote:
would carging my battery whilst using it do any damage to it? this appears to be the only
information i cannot find on lithium ion battaries
Mike wrote:
I just purchased a 20v “professional” cordless drill/driver (Craftsman brand) from Sears at
60% off the original price. This item was marked “clearance”. I’ve been congratulating
myself on a great find until I read this article. I immediately checked the date on the two
lithium-ion batteries enclosed and found it to be 10 2006. I think I know now why they have
been reduced to clear. I’ve charged up the batteries and they seem fine, but I haven’t used
the drill yet so don’t know what performance and battery life to expect. I have to assume
that these items have been sitting in a warehouse or store uncharged for over four years.
What remaining life should I expect from a four-year old battery that has never been
charged? Should I consider returning the drill?
Tad wrote:
@Mike - if the drill carries the standard Craftsman “forever” warranty, you can always
return the drill if the batteries prove to be unsatisfactory.
Lately my Blackberry 9700 has taken to powering itself off suddenly when the battery gets
down around 1 bar, before it even reaches the “yellow” or “red” part of the gauge. This
may be due to my recently acquired habit of charging it every night.
I’ll let it run down a few times and see if that makes a difference.
Michael wrote:
Great info!
One comment - a couple of your graphs are the wrong way around - the convention is to
have the independent variable on the x-axis. So, in the last graph, you should be reading
off the number of cycles on the y-axis, against each charge/discharge rate on the x-axis.
(The number of cycles is *dependent* on the charge/discharge rate).

dewey hodo wrote:
Does the above care, use and charging instruction apply equally to EV lithium batteries?
What special care must be given for Li batteries hundreds of times larger and more
powerful than laptops?
John wrote:
Hi, great article, but I have one question. What about Li-Polymer batteries, does all this
apply to them also or are there some significant differences?
Victor wrote:
My battery can’t backup anymore, and I only get to have Power for 6hours a day. and I’m a
Programmer. Getting another is just too expensive so how can I make it work again! I’m
using a UPS for a LAPTOP.
Cobalt wrote:
“Keep the lithium-ion battery cool. Avoid a hot car. For prolonged storage, keep the battery
at a 40% charge level.”
So i need charge battery every time when battery indicator is at 60%???
Ashley wrote:
This is an awesome article, it explains everything in detail and is backed up by evidence,

making all the information very credible.
However, I still do not grasp the definition of “discharge”. Does it mean letting the battery
run out; let it completely die?
My phone has been having battery issues I hope I can fix it!

Hilda Smith wrote:
Thank you for this very helpful information.
Royce wrote:
I stored my lit. battery from my laptop to increase battery life. After six months I reinstalled
the battery and it will not charge. Was storing it six months too long?
Alex wrote:
It depends on the state of charge when you stopped using it. If it is almost completely
discharged 6 month might be too long.
Alex wrote:
You should try leaving the battery 1 - 2 days plugged in, it might recover
Alex wrote:
If it doesn’t seem to have charged after 1 - 2 days, it has to be taken apart and the cells
have to be charged directly before the protection circuits. A power supply that can provide
constant current is needed, for ex a lab power supply. The voltage should be set to the
voltage written on the battery and the max current should be set to 5% of total capacity.
Obviously the polarity has to be connected correctly and the charging process should be
left alone for awhile until the constant current disappears. After that the battery should be
placed in the laptop and it should charge normally.
Alex wrote:
And, there’s another thing. if when you try to power the laptop with the bad battery the
lights flash as if it tells you that the battery is bad that it might never charge and it also
might not solve the problem charging the cells before the protection circuits inside. It is
best to try something else before you charge the cells separately. after taking the battery
apart disconnect all wires from the cells that go to the protection circuits. it is easier to
desolder them from where they are near the cells rather than from th pcb, but this might
not be the case for all the batteries. After desoldering all wires leave it like that for 10
seconds than resolder the wires back to where they were. you should connect the battery
into the laptop and try to charge it. In a similar situation it worked for me. Through this
method you cut the power from the protection circuits and it resets some parameters
related to the battery monitoring
Mescoda wrote:
I have translated this useful article into Chinese on my blog

If anyone get interest in it,you can visit
http://mescoda.com/2011/01/how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries/
ptah wrote:
Interesting to note that some laptop computers have the battery pack protruding from the
main case. That may be intended to reduce exposure to heat released by other
components.
DickL wrote:
I would like to know what is different, if anything, about charging and discharging Lithium
Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries - relatively new chemistry in the Lithium family of
batteries. Folks at Batteryspace.com claim much increased number of cycles (>2000) if
managed conservatively. Any observations or recommendations?
- DickL
On February 4, 2011 at 3:04pm

Ty wrote:
Excellent information on Li-Ion laptop batteries. Approximately 500 charge and discharge
cycles is pretty accurate. However, some companies claim 1000 or more. It all depends on
the quality and grade of the battery cells. Cheap battery cells will not last very long.
Whereas a well build battery with high quality cells should have a normal lifespan, given
it’s not put in abusive environments.
-Ty
www.ebatts.com
On February 7, 2011 at 9:13am
suman wrote:
wat about over charging?

do we hav problem in doping it
jean wrote:
what does discharge mean?
steve wrote:
I’m wondering what the effect of freezing is on the lithium ion batteries in my Makita
cordless driver/drill. Working in the winter in Iowa, freezing temperatures are common at
worksites. Will frequent freezing reduce the total number of charge/discharge cycles I’ll
get out of my batteries over the life of the tool?
Prem Dissanayake wrote:
It’s great place to study about battery as well as other related accessories.Good luck!
Pier Francis wrote:

Excellent info on batteries, thanks to Battery University
Andrew wrote:
I also wanted to express my gratitude on the information given about lithium based
batteries. Thank you!
Cadex Electronics Inc. wrote:
We have updated this article as of today February 25, 2011.
Rob Smith wrote:
I tried to fgure out how to handle longevity and the best solution so far is by Sony VAIO
laptops. During normal use in office I put charge limit to 40% and batter never goes above
that, if I need to travel I simply increase it to 80% or 100%.
Capacity of battery remained constant for more than 2 years now, what might be due to
such ‘soft charging’, but also due to quality of Sony batteries.
Dell Studio XPS has excellent utility which simply turned charging off whenever user
wishes.
So I keep charge level somewhere around 50% and whenever I need laptop simply
turncharging on.
IMO it should be standard on all laptops.
On March 1, 2011 at 11:13am
mike wrote:
Question: I was told to leave the computer on at all times, just shut the lid. This will add
to the life of the battery. Comments
On March 12, 2011 at 11:33am
genesis wrote:
people,please…..do not take everything you read on internet as a must. what this
....“article” acctually tells you is: 1) it is not recomended to keep your battery plugged in
when fully charged for a long time periods.2)it is not neccessary to always fully discharge
the LI battery(you can charge it anytime to any%). 3)do not keep/operate your battery in an
owen.4) if you plan not to use your battery for a long time, it is better to keep it half
charged.
thats about it - everything else is just a .... masochism.
On March 12, 2011 at 12:00pm
gendersis wrote:
thanks genesis, i will do as you said, hopefully my battery will survive another year :D
On March 20, 2011 at 11:07am
Kevin wrote:
Awsome sight…I have an Evo Shift and my battery gets up too 47 degree’s while using it
and sometimes noy slowly? Sprint said that it’s ok? Please HELP!!!!!!
On March 23, 2011 at 3:44pm
SLy wrote:
****Tad wrote:
@Mike - if the drill carries the standard Craftsman “forever” warranty, you can always
return the drill if the batteries prove to be unsatisfactory.****
COMPLETELY WRONG!!!
Craftman “Hand Tools” are lifetime. Cordless drills and other similar items are NOT
lifetime.
The battery you bought has a 90 day warranty. Same as the charger. The tool has a year
warranty.
James wrote:
derp has a point.. and summarizes the article well
..but he came over as a an obnoxious braggart.
On March 27, 2011 at 10:02pm
Sagar wrote:
Great article…Thanks for sharing
wezz wrote:
ive just bought a new cordless lithium drill/driver for DIY use only have i made a costly
mistake? thanks wezz
Paul wrote:
I have been looking at this and I think the data is a bit mis leading. Its not the number of
re-charges that is important, but the total hours before the battery cannot get to above
70%.
I have been a geek and modelled this. If you take an average battery with a life of 600hrs in
standby (the actual number dont matter here), then the total hours you get for the
100%DoD is actually more than the 10%DoD. Yes, you get more recharges, but less total
hours of use. From the table in the article, the 50% DoD gives you the most number of
hours out of the battery before it cannot get above 70%.
Its quality not quantity!
p.s. I havent read all the comments so I apologise if I am repeating what has been said!
On April 4, 2011 at 8:20am
Rich S. wrote:
“The question is often asked: Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when not
in use? Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because once the
lithium-ion battery is full, a correctly functioning charger will discontinue the charge and
will only engage when the battery voltage drops to a low level.” Does this same thing apply
to the phone batteries?
Dave wrote:
Obviously, as derp left his own laptop mostly plugged in for a year, he is, by his own
definition, a retard. What a jerk.
David wrote:
Table 2 states that for a full 100% discharge and full charge that the battery would last
roughly 500 cycles, while one that has a 10% discharge and then charging back up to
100% would last roughly 4,700 cycles. I hope I understand that table correctly, if not please
help me understand it better.
My question is that given that I would follow the 10% discharge cycle would that not cause
the battery to ‘fail’ sooner since discharging 10% and then charging to 100% 4,700 times
would roughly equate to 470 100% discharges? I’m sure I may be misunderstanding
something, but I don’t see how the numbers add up.
Paul wrote:
The key isn’t the number of re-charges, it is the total hours you get out of the battery. So
you are, approximately, right. Look at my comments above.
More re-charges does not necessarily mean more battery life. Just means more re-
charges
Paul
David wrote:
Thank you Paul! That helped out greatly. I will include my findings doing similar
calculations here:
Total capacity: 100 mAh
Dod Cycles Total Hours of use Formula (capacity * Dod) * Cycles
100% 500 50,000 (100 * 1.00) * 500
50% 1,500 75,000 (100 * 0.50) * 1,500
25% 2,500 62,500 (100 * 0.25) * 2,500
10% 4,700 47,000 (100 * 0.10) * 4,700
Please let me know if I used anything incorrectly.
Paul wrote:
It is close, but it does depend what they mean by 10% DoD
If you look at the graph (figure 1), it shows that each time you charge, the ‘full’ level on the
battery is a bit less each time. The failure is when it can only get to 70%. So lets say you
charge 2000 times, the batt may only charge to 80%, say. Then 10% DoD in this case will
be (in your example) 10% of 80mAh. If they meant 10%DoD of the orginal batt capacity in
each charge, then you are right but I doubt it. I say that because if that is what they meant,
then they could not have done a 100% DoD case (how can you discharge 100mAh when
the batt is only at 80mAh?)
So in your cals, where you have (100*0.10)*4,700 the 100 needs to be a decreasing value
for each charge e.g. (100*0.1) + (99.9*0.1) + (99.5*0.1) or similar
Does that make sense?
Paul
Ed Vim wrote:
Great article, thanks for writing this up.
Regarding derp’s comments, interesting but its value greatly diminished by immaturity.
David wrote:
@Paul
Yes that makes sense. I would update the calculations to account for that but I have
already had enough fun for the day.
Thank you for the response.
On April 8, 2011 at 6:01pm
Patrick B wrote:
I keep my laptop plugged in all the time at home to do work on. According to this article, it
seems that by doing this, I am wearing out my battery prematurely. I take it the right thing
to do would be to let it partially discharge, then take it out of the unit until I need to use it
on battery power. Am I right?
thomas 09789989648 wrote:
hi i am a laptop service enginear how to check battery ok or bad . and how to create one
lithiyam ion battrey on charging pls tell me
GenericM wrote:
I hope my laptop never needs servicing even more now.
elf- wrote:
I just bought a new battery for my Huawei Ascend cell phone I have let the battery drain
completly out then gave it a full charge then let it die out and gave it a complete charge
again. From the reading above, If I want too prolong the battery life I should let it drain
down to 50-60% battery life then put it on the charger? Or do I keep on letting it drain down
to 10-15 % then put it on the charger for 4 hours or until 100% charged? Please respond
back thanks!
Paul wrote:
Based on the data they show in the paper, the 50% DoD seems to give you the longest batt
life.
But I am not an expert, I am just analysing their data.
PAUL J. wrote:
Funny, if you paid $200 to read David Linden’s Handbook of Batteries 3rd Edition it will tell
you that lithium ion batteries have a good shelf life. Primary lithium does, but not Li-ion.
This is straight from Linden’s $200 book:
TABLE 35.1 Advantages and Disadvantages of Li-ion Batteries

Advantages Disadvantages
Sealed cells; no maintenance required Moderate initial cost
Long cycle life Degrades at high temperature
Broad temperature range of operation Need for protective circuitry
Long shelf life
Low self-discharge rate
Rapid charge capability
High rate and high power discharge capability
High coulombic and energy efficiency
High specific energy and energy density
No memory effect
PAUL J. wrote:
Elf, it does not matter with Li-ion. Just charge it whenever you get a chance, but just so
you know Li-ion is happiest around 40% state of charge.
On May 2, 2011 at 11:42pm
Mike wrote:
The question most raised is life. Our batteries utilize precision GPS on job sites. The
manufacturer of the units is very attentive to detail as far as expansion with charging.
They utilize a gore valve to help with the hear when the batteries and components
expand. However, the replacement batteries we receive, which i believe are quality last
almost half the time as the original manufacturers batteries. Do you believe this to be a
coincidence or quality factor.
On May 2, 2011 at 11:46pm
Mike wrote:
The question most raised is life. Our batteries utilize precision GPS on job sites. The
manufacturer of the units are very attentive to detail as far as expansion with charging.
They utilize a gore valve to help with the heat when the batteries and components
expand. However, the replacement batteries we receive, which i believe are quality, last
almost half the time as the original manufacturers batteries. Do you believe this to be a
coincidence or quality factor.
On May 3, 2011 at 6:17am
PAUL J. wrote:
There seems to be a lot of controversy on the subject of lithium-ion batteries and what you
should do with them when you first receive them. The experts will tell you that there is no
“conditioning” needed with Li-Ion, however I have seen first hand experience which begs to
differ.
I have seen proof time and time again that Li-Ion DOES benefit greatly from “conditioning”
the battery by letting it discharge fully (until the device shuts itself down) and charging it
8-12 hours (repeat process) for the first 3-5 days.
That could solve your problem, or you might just be getting old batteries.
Next time you receive a new battery, try this method, I think you will be surprised.
On May 4, 2011 at 8:14am
Rob wrote:
@ Paul J
That could also be just down to the fact that this sort of cycling is used to calibrate the
battery mater in some equipment - Apple Macs spring to mind here. So repeating this until
your battery is in peak form (usually 3 or 4 cycles) will keep updating the calibration values
and hence give you the most accurate reading. This in turn will give the longest time
before the software of the device thinks the battery is nearly flat and shuts down to
protect your information.
Anyway, thanks for the thread. It’s amazing the amount of FUD that there is out there, not
helped by the fact that most manufacturers are particularly vague with regards to their
battery care and handling instructions. They could all do with having an article similar to
this, but specific to their particular battery, charger circuit and typical usage patterns, in
their manual.
On May 8, 2011 at 1:29pm
danceswithbongs wrote:
Thanks for an informative article. Wasn’t it nice of derp to drop by, making use all feel
better about ourselves. Always good to notice that mans inhumanity to man is hard
wired. I would imagine derp could learn a bit from someone who is retarded, like how to
treat others.
Again, great article, and first free thing I’ve ever heard of from a university.
Can people still major in 9 volts?
Appreciate you droppin knowledge like Galileo dropped the orange!(see The Beastie Boys)
From the law offices of danceswithbongs, esq.
On June 2, 2011 at 3:25pm
INSAAN KHAN wrote:
CAN SOMEONE HELP ME?
I BOUGHT A NEW ASUS Eee PC 1008P and i am facing problem with my battry charging…
my battery charges well when netbook power is off but when i switch the netbook on the
battery light keeps on blinking and windows 7 tray shows at my battery is intermittently
charging and disconnecting….(that is the reason why my battery light is blinking..which
would remain static if it is charging normally)
please help…or should i be needing to go the ASUS tech help?
thanks
On June 8, 2011 at 7:34am
Charge Me wrote:
Sooo, why is it of the dozen laptops I’ve owned over the last ten years, that they still had
less than 5% wear after one year and less than 15% wear after two years and kept them at
100% and had maybe 10-20 full discharges a year?
On June 14, 2011 at 7:47am
Marilyn wrote:
A few years ago a physicist friend explained to me that it doesn’t matter how far you
discharge the battery but once it’s on the charger it should be left on until the battery is
fully charged. My boyfriend (a chemist/scientist) says this is complete untrue with the
current battery technology. He tends to charge his phone in short stints where I tend to
never attach to the charger unless I can leave it long enough to fully charge. Any thoughts?
(We both have the Samsung Galaxy S which is a great phone but a huge energy suck. I
must recharge once a day which I do at then end of the day until the morning.)
On June 15, 2011 at 6:49am
Paul J. wrote:
Your boyfriend is correct. Lithium Ion technology can accept a topping charge at any time
and doe not require a full charge. I also have a Galaxy S and I charge it whenever I get a
chance. You should prime the battery the first few days though by draining it completely
and charging completely. This will also help calibrate your phone’s battery meter to the
new battery.
On June 22, 2011 at 10:26am
Crusty wrote:
Derp is certainly a character. OK, he’s douche. There, I said it. Anyone have any luck with
freezing dead batteries and bringing them back to life? Some say it works—I’m skeptical.
I’m trying it now with an HP dv7 battery (OEM HP from 9/2009) I guess it can’t hurt.
Besides, this monster 7lb laptop is lighter without the battery. Works fine on straight AC.
On June 25, 2011 at 2:37pm
Alan Kanarbik wrote:
I appreciate the resourcefulness of the information you have provided here.

Another question has come to my mind regarding saving power on Li-ion batteries. Will it
make no difference to plug the battery in and out with the laptop running on AC power or
is battery life saved by turning the computer off first for the switch between power
sources?
On June 25, 2011 at 10:42pm
Crusty wrote:
My guess is if you are going to have your laptop plugged in most of the time, as in a large,
say 17” desktop replacement type, it would be best to just remove the battery altogether.
Such is the case with my HP DV7 laptop with it’s beautiful 17.3 screen. Lugging around a
nearly 8lb laptop (with battery installed) for any great distance will make a man pine for
something much smaller (and lighter!) Seriously, if you’re leaving it at home or office most
of the time, what’s the point?
Oh, and the ‘freeze your dead battery” thing I tried from another site? Well, unless it says
Lazarus somewhere on the label next to the P/N, this appears to be bunk. It was worth a
try, I guess. All you need is a dead battery and a freezer bag. . . . .
On June 30, 2011 at 9:57am
Niels-Erik Jensen wrote:
How many kWh do you have to get from the power supplier to get 100 kWh into the
battery.
The heating up of the battery shows you have to tap (a lot, maybe) more kWh from the
power supplier than the energy that is charged into the battery.
Same question for discharging a battery which also gets hot during de-charging.
On July 14, 2011 at 1:47pm
Colin Macdonald wrote:
I am thinking of buying an electric bike, but I go away to Africa during the British winter, so
the battery would be stored unattended for six months each year. Is this going to be a
problem? Have you any advice?
On July 14, 2011 at 7:51pm
Marilyn wrote:
Thanks Paul, I’ve started taking both of your advice and charging the phone whenever I
have a charger available. I still find myself draining the battery before I find a charger,
today it was too many birds and not enough pigs, but I’m getting better. Phone is well
primed based on my previous charging habits.
On July 15, 2011 at 7:10am
Gerge lopaz wrote:
Too much information, not specific, hard to find information that is relevent.
On July 18, 2011 at 7:58am
Walt Borntrager wrote:
I have found just the opposite of this “data” in multiple Li-ion applications. In both
notebook computers and cell phones, I’ve found that if I never recharge the battery unless
it is fully discharged, and then always fully recharge it, I get years of full capacity. My first
cell phone would run 13 to 14 days continuously per charge for nearly 10 years using this
rule. (Then communication protocols changed from analog to digital. )

I had a notebook computer charging module with an intermittent connection at the output,
charging a minute or so, then disconnecting and allowing the computer to discharge a
minute or so, then charging a little… In less than 1 day, the battery had no capacity - would
not hold enough charge to hold up the computer for 10 seconds. The previous day it
would power it for nearly 2 hours. The battery did not undergo any shock - the computer
was sitting on a table.
I’ve found the same for Ni-Cad (obviously) and also NiMH.
My personal experience in using rechargeable batteries for the last 20 years consistently
agrees with this rule.
On July 23, 2011 at 1:27am
Jeff Simon wrote:
Maybe I am the only one missing one aspect of the number of cycles verses depth of
discharge: if you only get 500 cycles with 100% discharge, as compared to 4700 cycles
with 10% discharge, those cycles are not equivalent.
That is, the 100% discharge got 10 times the power ouput as compared to the 10% depth.
If assuming useful work was done in each depth, then in fact getting 500 cycles actually
gets a bit more work than 4700 cycles of only 10% the depth.
This seems to me to say that the depth of discharge is much less important than you
would initially think from just looking at the number of cycles alone, as the amount of
output is actually slightly more under the deep cycle, but for practical purposes is close to
equivalent.
That is, unless I am missing something that everybody else is seeing.
On July 25, 2011 at 3:53am
Jim H wrote:
I have a new netbook and want to preserve the Li Ion battery as long as possible. I have
no occasion to need to use the netbook on the battery, but I may someday. I’ve had the
netbook about a month and have not installed the battery. Is this a good strategy? Should
I charge the battery about half way and put it in the fridge sealed to prevent moisture
incursion
On July 25, 2011 at 6:19am
Paul J. wrote:
My suggestion to you would be to read the article instead of just the comments. It seems
like only a few people actually took the time to read it, and everyone else wants answers
without doing the reading. I have read the whole book” Batteries in a Portable World” and I
would recommend it to anyone who would like to have a better understanding of batteries
and the characteristics of each chemistry.
On July 25, 2011 at 6:22am
Paul J. wrote:
Jeff, I think it is just stated to be equivalent for practical purposes because it is close
enough.
On July 25, 2011 at 8:21am
Jeff Simon wrote:
Paul, yes what I am saying is that they are practically equivalent. But the article seems to
imply that very small cycles is far better.
On July 26, 2011 at 6:35pm
Walt Borntrager wrote:
Paul, I read the article and am saying that my 20+ years of experience with rechargeable
batteries disagrees with one primary implication: The article implies that many partial
cycles will allow the battery to keep full capacity longer. The “memory” effect that plagued
NiCad chemistry and supposedly is not present in Li-Ion, is the effect that, if the battery is
only partially discharged, then recharged, it will soon only have the capacity to which it is
used, i.e., if you only discharge it 10% and then recharge it each time, after a number of
cycles, the total mAH available will only be about 10% of its original capacity. My
experience has found this true of NiCad, NiMH, and Li-Ion, although Li-Ion is the most
forgiving. As I stated before, a faulty charger connection caused very small cycles on my
last Li-Ion and it destroyed the capacity in days. I would certainly not recommend
discharging any of these chemistries small amounts between recharges. I’ve seen this
habit destroy capacity very prematurely numerous times.
Most of today’s notebook computers have a hysteresis built into the charge cycle such
that, if you fully charge it, no charging will occur until you have intentionally discharged it
to some extent. This allows you to keep it plugged in for periods of time without
excessive short charge cycles. Some also have the option to turn the charger off until it is
really necessary at a low remaining charge. This is a clue that notebook computer
manufacturers agree with me on this aspect.
On July 27, 2011 at 7:40am
Paul J. wrote:
Walt, I agree with you that Li-Ion doesn’t always behave exactly as indicated in the article.
My comment about “reading the article” was not pointed at you or others who are here to
discuss findings and experiences. It was for the people who just come here for free
answers without putting forth any effort to actually learn what the article is teaching.
That said, bear in mind when you read this article that it was published in 2001. Lithium-
Ion technology has advanced and is better understood now than it was in 2001.
Isidor Buchmann has released a third edition just a couple months ago that I can’t wait to
get my hands on.
On July 28, 2011 at 3:10am
Sandeep wrote:
Is it really a good practice to keep the charger on for my laptop even after my battery has
reached 100%(fully charged)? If not does this have an implication on the life of the battery
and by how much? Is energy wasted in the process becuase the charger tries to keep
pumping into an already full battery and if so what is the loss like?
On July 28, 2011 at 5:42pm
Walter Borntrager wrote:
Sorry Paul - didn’t notice that this was an old study. Good point - read and think through
the article before asking a question that was already answered.
I tend to spout off a bit over this subject because of all the hype that Li-Ion has beat the
“memory effect” syndrome. I haven’t found a solid chemistry yet that has…
(By solid, I mean this primarily excludes lead acid, which thrives on a continuous full
charge, within limits, and can be destroyed by a full discharge.)
Thanks for the comments…

Walt
On August 1, 2011 at 3:16am
NeilP wrote:
Jim H,
If you have still not plugged your batteryinto the laptop, then DONT.
I have heard, but cant confirm, that the batteries, factory fresh, are chemically stabilised,
somehow. The first charge cycle or two disapates this stabilisation, hence the need to
cycle the battery a few times to get full capacity
Colin, Ref your E bike battery. That totally depends onthe chemistry of the pack, It could
be Sealed Lead Acid, or a LiFePO4 or?? Check out the Endless Sphere E bike forum for an
answer,once you know battery chemistry
Retxirb wrote:
First let me thank you for this great article and this website, very informative. I recently
bought new netbook and I’ve been charging the battery for around 40% to 80%. I charge it
up 40% when I won’t be using the battery for a long period of time. I pull out the battery
whenever I have access to power outlet.
Charging the battery while the computer is running may cause the battery serious stress
because of heat. But I occasionally charge my netbook around 7pm when the temperature
is cool so I can watch the netbook when its reached 80%.
I know that everything even computer battery has an end. If I reach that point, I would
dissect the battery, ebay some Li-Ion and then solder it to place. That would save me a lot
of bucks.
NeilP wrote:
Jim H,
If you have still not plugged your batteryinto the laptop, then DONT.
I have heard, but cant confirm, that the batteries, factory fresh, are chemically stabilised,
somehow. The first charge cycle or two disapates this stabilisation, hence the need to
cycle the battery a few times to get full capacity
Colin, Ref your E bike battery. That totally depends onthe chemistry of the pack, It could
be Sealed Lead Acid, or a LiFePO4 or?? Check out the Endless Sphere E bike forum for an
answer,once you know battery chemistry
Fabrice wrote:
Paul, note:
“On February 25, 2011 at 3:14pm

Isidor wrote:
We have updated this article as of today February 25, 2011.”
Still, I wish he would address the point raised about battery utility (i.e., total power
delivered) vs. number of charge cycles. It is a good example of how data presentation can
define - and limit - our ability to understand what is really important.
John C. Crowther wrote:
Re. Charging / Discharging of Lithium Batteries - and useful life of the battery
The Article and many of the Comments, as well as stressing prevention of overheating, (in
a hot computer or a hot car) seem to indicate that length of battery life is a matter of how
much you discharge the battery, and how often you charge it. So it can take 500 cycles of
total discharge (100% discharged to 0%) or 4700 cycles of 10% discharge (100% charged
dischragd to 90%). [see exchange between David & Paul on April 07, 2011] They agree that
the amount of work done by the Li-battery is pretty much the same whatever approach you
take.
Many of the comments focus on avoiding overcharging - and some recommend keeping
the Li-battery around 40% - 50% discharged, and topping it up frequently. Sounds like “ïf
you don’t use it, you lose it”
So far so good. But I have a confusion which is (unless I overlooked something - want to
avoid a ‘flame’ from ‘derp’). I am concerned about undercharging a Li-Battery. This concern
relates to a Lenovo Thinkpad system, but I imagine it could apply to many other Laptops.
I have a ThinkPad W520, and since the mains adapter is a brick 17cm x 8cm x 3.5cm
weighing 750g (6.7"x 3.2” x 1.3” weighing 1.64 lbs) I figured from suggestions on
thinkpads.com Support Community (http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?
p=628326) that I can equally use a smaller mains Adapter also
available from Lenovo.
The “Brick” has an output of 170W, 20V charging at 8.5A

The smaller versions have an output 90W and charge at 4.5A
so accordingly I bought a Lenovo 41R4494 Ultraslim Adapter which is 11.5 cm x 7cm x
1.7cm and weighs 377g (4.5” x 2.75” x 0.67” weighing under 12 ounces). I felt very
pleased.
But now my ThinkPad is nagging me each time I switch on or close down:

“Ïncorrect AC adapter is attached.
This AC adapter may not provide enough power to your Thinkpad. Please reconnect the
proper AC adapter.”
i.e they mean I am ündercharging the battery, right?
(That’s true, if I leave the UltraSlim attached while I work, the battery runs down.
Question: But is that bad? Maybe it runs down more slowly, than if the UktraSlim Adapter
is *not* attached? Can it damage the control circuits in the battery or the mains adapter?
My compromise work routine uses the Li-battery for my working day, and I charge it
overnight.
1. I hibernate the computer - with remaining charge in the battery ca. 30% - leaving it
plugged in to the UltraSlim charger overnight.
2. In the morning I unplug the mains adapter, before waking up the computer (thereby
avoiding the nag).
It’s back to 98% - 100% - showing 8 or 9 hours work available in the battery (the 9-cell)
During the day, I use the computer on battery, in sporadic intervals of half to 1½ hours.
Between each work interval I close the lid to hibernate. I rarely finish the day with less than
30% charge in the battery.
So now to my main questions:
A. is this routine harmful for the life of a Li-Battery?

B. if not, why does Lenovo nag me for using the 4.5A mains adapter?
(it charges OK when I am not using the computer).

Many thanks for any insight or ‘light’ the Team can shed on this subject.
Regards = John
BIKIE wrote:
Hello I wonder if I put my computer without the battery charge and peude after I put my
battery during charging is there a risk that the battery or the computer gate
On September 23, 2011 at 12:50am
Dee wrote:
The owners of this site deserve praise. great work and solid information.
Ashfaq wrote:
hi
I heard the battery life reduces if we keep the charger plugged-in (charing) after the battery
is 100% - is it true?
banmeet singh wrote:
After discharge the battery should be fully charged back because
1. Charging back to 70% restore the life
2.Prolonged discharge state of the plate causes sulphation

3. Partial charging after deep discharge is also causes sulphation
4.,Both B & C
Peppe wrote:
Hi,
I find this article very interesting. With the aim of trying to put it in practice by moving to a
more sound “maintenance” of my Li-ion batteries, I was quickly listing them in my mind: I
ve Li-Ion batteries on my notebooks (Asus and MacBook Air), my two photo-camera, my
videocamera, my mobile phone.
So, two main insight I want to apply: 1) never leave a li-ion battery inactive for too long
time (i.e. months), but keep electrons move from time to time; 2) store the battery at the
best possible conditions, i.e.: low temperature, low humidity, about 40% of charge.
I should have no problems with mobile phones and notebooks, as I use them everyday so
keeping them at about the charge level I want is something I can someway control
(plug/unplug them appropriately). The only problem is the Mac which heats often and
there’s no way to remove the battery if I want to give it some relief.
The real problems are with the photo/video camera: I don’t use them everyday, sometimes
I don’t use them for a few months. How can I simultaneously apply both insights ?
Suppose I charge them to some 40% (difficult to control, at least with the photo-cameras,
while the Sony Videocam has a progress bar), and then I remove from the devices and
leave them apart. I then go to re-charge them after 1 month (insight 1). How much charge
can they loose in 1-month ? I imagine few enough so that to bring them back to 40% I
should leave them plugged in 10 minutes ?
Is this something sound and workable ?
Because if not, then I should charge them more and then artificially use the devices
intensely to make them discharge the battery again at about 40%. That’s because I don’t
know if there’s any universal charger/discharger that I can use to control how much
charge/discharge I want to apply to a li-ion battery before I store them.
All this is so much easier with the Ni-MH Hybrid batteries (used in strobes for example) for
which I’ve bought a Maha Powerex MH-C9400 charger/discharger and every few weeks I
run a Refresh&Analyze; cycle specifically designed for optimal storage of the batteries
(then, every few months I run another “stronger” program to fully re-generate them).
Peppe
Mr.Milcho wrote:
Thanks to Battery University for this information.
Cedric wrote:
The table shows numbers of cycles for different DoD.

But does 50% DoD mean cycling the charge between 50% charge and 100% ?
Given what the article says, would it not be best to cycle charge between 10%-60% for
example ? (avoid full charge to not have high voltage in the battery) ?
And what I would like to know is what is best (ex. during working hours, at my desk) ?? :
- let the laptop/phone plugged, so with battery near 100%, but almost not used (except for
peak power use, such as in phones for some radio communications).
- Or only plug sometimes, maintaining charge beetween 20%-80%. In this case we have
lower voltage, but the battery is much more in use, enduring more (partial) cycles.
Note that for phone, they won’t work with battery pulled-off. I wish it could be set up to
only charge to a partial charge (ex 75%).
Tom wrote:
Very Useful…
Andrew wrote:
Hi - I have read this forum over various times and have seen the question “can Lithium Ion
batteries be restored/saved”? asked a number of times. Often the discussion leads in tlo
technical descriptions but no clear answer…
Once they no longer hold a charge, is there anything I can do to practically revive a lithium
ion battery or is is straight to the garbage dump?
it’s just that i have a very large pile of, what were, high quality battery packs and would like
to know if i can ever derive an practical use for them? ...beyond being paper weights?
i just figure that these 14.4v, 95Wh unite cost a bundle and certainly their must be a way to
restore them…no?
please appreciate that while mechanically advanced, in the battery world I’‘m very much
the lay person…
Sergey Verlinski wrote:
Could you please explain: which mechanical parameters describes aging of batteries? And
second question: how Young’s modulus of Li batteries changes depend of temperature.
Thanks in advance.
Michael Nolting wrote:
I just want to know if keeping my laptop with li batteries connected to the AC charger is
destroying my batteries.
I replaced my battery because it would not hold a charge in June and now it behaves very
erratically.
mekong_nam wrote:
well.The information that you give is different from user’s manual of cellphone company.
They said that user should full discharge, empty their battery before recharging to keep
battery lasting longer. All sellers said that users should charge their battery 8 hours for
first 3 times to maximize the capacity of battery.
Clement Lee wrote:
My Portable DVD is using Li-Polymer rechargeable battery. It is about 1.5years old. Now
the battery swelled and the charge capacitive drop seriously.
Why the battery swell ?
Is it dangerous to keep on charge and discharge it ?
resg wrote:
My mobile accepts charging both using AC adapter or USB port. Using the USB will apply a
slower charge as stated in the owner’s manual. Question is: is the USB charge less
stressful than the one with AC adapter? Is it better for the battery at all?
Martin wrote:
So does anybody know if this article has been updated from 2001 to include more recent
info?
As far as my logic goes then at least in 2011, it’s ok to keep your laptop plugged in with the
battery attached, because
1. if you charge to 100% and keep to AC on the charger is intelligent enough not to really
start charging the battery again until it naturally drops to about 95%
2. while on AC the laptop does not draw power from the battery (source Dell homepage)
You have to keep in mind though to discharge it / charge it once in a while (from this page
here it seems the best is to let it go to about 25%?).
Only if your laptop gets very hot while using it on AC, is removing the battery a good idea
as a hot laptop will also naturally heat up the battery (remove the battery and touch it,
should give you an idea). This, as I understand, will make the battery loose it’s capacity
more quickly.
David Jones wrote:
I’ve just finished reading the article and all comments. Not until nearly the last comment
did I learn that the article was written in 2001. I scrolled back up and found no date before
or after the article. My closest clue was when the comments began in 2010. My fault for
no thorough research of the source. I simply Googled “how to care for Lithium Ion
batteries”. I must say that I appreciate the intelligent comments, especially Paul and
Walter. Many thanks for this information. My Toshiba laptop and cell phone batteries will
serve me longer and stronger.
megan wrote:
i left my phone in outside and i fount it everything works fine but not less than 5 seconds
after i turn it on it says battery is to hot powering off??? does anybody know wht tht
means ???
Ted Seifert wrote:
How do I store my lithium batters for the winter, I use them in my yard tools. I will not be
using them for about 4 to 5 month.
cristovian wrote:
Can a battery, namely Li-ion be charged and discharged at the same time,without a
disruption in the output. The battery pack has two terminals one input and the other one
an output.
bargainsbob@gmail.com wrote:
I just bought a Craftsman 20 v Li-Ion Professional drill (display model). When I got it home
I tried to charge it and the charger indicated that it was defective and refused to give it a
charge.
So I stuck it in the freezer for a short while and then it charged ok.
Does anyone know why this happened?

Does anyone know if the pack is good or should I return the drill to Sears.
Thanks for any replies
Zubair Shahid wrote:
Hi! I have a dell inspiron 1520 laptop. I have a question…. If i use maximum time laptop on
ac state although my battery is full so is it harmful for my laptop or my battery… plz guide
me…
HHAH wrote:
very helpful, thanks very much
brian wrote:
Laptops get hot when turned on especially bigger ones when the CPU and video cards are
processing a lot of data. It can be detrimental when turned on 24/7 as the battery also
maintains a 100% charge. Placing laptops on blankets or beds can block the vents and
overheat it further. Fabric is also a good insulator. If laptop batteries are protected from
excessive heat while running, wouldn’t the service life last much longer.
The advantage of Li-ion is that it is light. I prefer NiMH because apparently, they don’t age
as fast when not in use and they don’t have that explosion risk.
mAh can be a bit misleading because it does not equal Wh. Wh is equal to V x Ah. So it
seems if you connect cells in series, you find the Wh of each cell before adding it.
Ray Wells wrote:
I have a Samsung Galaxy, and left it charging overnight using the USB port of my HP Mini,
which was plugged in the whole time. In the morning, the phone was good, but the laptop
battery was 0% and has not worked since. My theory is the USB port stayed powered while
the laptop cut it’s own charger off for some reason. Before this, the laptop battery was
doing fine.
Katy wrote:
Well from first hand knowledge the quickest way to kill your Lithium Ion battery is to let it
go completely dead. Another thing is to leave it in the car over night in the cold. Just trying
to help so you guys don’t make the same mistake.
Guillaume wrote:
@Sandeep
If you intend to use your laptop charged in for an extended period of time, remove the
battery from it at 40% capacity.
You should not keep the battery on the laptop. The laptop will keep charging the battery as
soon as it losses a little capacity and will eventually reduce the battery life expectancy.
Guillaume wrote:
So if I understand the Table 2 correctly, the optimal capacity to charge a Li-ion battery is
50% ?
100% * 500 cycles = 500 times full capacity

Did I miss something ?
taz wrote:
Dont listen to these people thats crazy there saying if u store ur battery in ur fridge at 0c
your battery will only lose 2% per year? So i can store my lithuium battey for 10 years and
lose only 20% capacity? LOL
Mike McMahon wrote:
My cell phone battery is Li-Ion 3.7 vdc. My USB output is 4.98 vdc. Is the 4.98 v going to
significantly degrade the life of my battery?
Ray Wells wrote:
The underlying issue is “how humans should behave in order to handle technology”. Well,
guess what, that’s backwards. Technology should behave in a way that humans can deal
with. Assume they are all retards if you like, but expect them to: 1/ Leave rechargeable
devices plugged in most of the time, 2/ Leave the battery in place when in use, regardless
of being plugged in. 3/ Store things in a hot vehicle when convenient. 4/ Need a clear
indication when a battery needs replacing. Like everything else, battery technology will
evolve by natural selection. Utility and economics.
Ray Wells wrote:
I liked the original article, gives a good analysis of the challenges facing the industry.
There will probably always be “101 things to avoid doing” with any battery technology.
Du Roi wrote:
I have a Nokia N70 Me for several years (may be 4 or 5) with a Li-Ion (BL-5C) battery, what
i use to do is to charge 100 %, and use phone until the battery is full discharge. My BL-5C
is in perfect condition i assure you. This is my own experience with a Li-Ion phone battery,
and i think this contradict a little beat some of this theories. I hope this help in a way or
another.
Happy New Year for all !!!
Ray Pipkin wrote:
@ Jeff Simon, who wrote:

“Maybe I am the only one missing one aspect of the number of cycles verses depth of
discharge: if you only get 500 cycles with 100% discharge, as compared to 4700 cycles
with 10% discharge, those cycles are not equivalent.
“That is, the 100% discharge got 10 times the power ouput as compared to the 10% depth.
If assuming useful work was done in each depth, then in fact getting 500 cycles actually
gets a bit more work than 4700 cycles of only 10% the depth.”
——————————————————————————————————————
You are correct in your observation, but you should have taken it one step farther. Using
the data of Table 2 which gives the number of cycles to 70% capacity as a function of
depth of discharge, one can derive the relative amount of total energy extracted (a
dimensionless quantity) from a Li-ion cell as a function of DoD:
100% DoD yields 500 units of energy from a Li-ion cell over its useful life;
50% DoD provides 750 units;
25% DoD provides 625 units; and
10% DoD provides 470 units.
The data in Table 2 indicate that recharging when the capacity reaches 50% is optimal
over the other three options.
Inpulpded wrote:
You can think of your computer’s registry like the brain of your computer. As such, it
stores facts not only on every program that your computer has set uped at any given time,
it also tends to keep information from programs that you Formerly take awayd. This can
be a important problem for PC owners and is why it’s imperative for computer users to use
a free registry cleaner.

When you set up software on your computer, some important records are stored inside
your computer’s registry. However, when you eliminate or unset up software, sometimes
those data remain inside your registry. Maybe the software was poorly written or your
computer had a hard time unset uping the software properly. In either case, the end-result
is that you have information in your registry that are no longer needed.

<a >advanced system care torrent</a>
cleans your computer’s registry. Registry cleaners get rid of outdated and errant registry
entries that can cause PC slowdown, error messages and even software crashes. serious
registry problems can even result in your computer becoming unbootable. So, by
employing a registry cleaning tool, you can work to eliminate these PC slowdowns and
avoid future problems due to a bloated registry.
Deyan wrote:
I have owned an Acer Aspire laptop with a Li-ion battery for 4 and a half years now. I use it
predominantly on AC power and NEVER take the battery out. My battery now still has
86.9% of its initial capacity. Any comments? derp, what do you think?

Eric wrote:
If you look at table 2, it only says the number of cycles, which is irrelevant here. If we have
a charger ready and need to know when to charge to prolong life, you can’t read it from the
table directly. If I fully use the battery until it’s empty (100% DoD) you have to compare that
to 10 cycles discharging to 10% DoD, because that’s fulfilling the same usage; any other
comparison is useless. So looking at these four values, the 25% DoD seems to be the best,
but more values would be helpful.
jessiefister wrote:
don’t charge your battery untiil it is used up.

more ideas please click:
http://www.batterymag.co.uk
Luke Patrick wrote:
I work research and development and have tested lithium-ion cells for years. Here are
some points I have learned on lithium ion:
0. If a battery is in a device, the device always has some sort of battery management
system. Full discharge (to 0 volts) should not be possible and does cause irreparable
damage. “full discharge” to about 2.7V (0% state of charge) is normal.
1. Storage will not rejuvenate or recover capacity.
2. If you need to store long term, store it at 50% charge. This reduces self discharge
and/or active material degradation.
3. Freezing can damage a cell by causing dendrites (crystalization) in the electrolyte
components and piercing seperator or damaging material bonds.
4. The lower the operating temperature - the slower the ion exchange.
The higher the temperature - the higher the material degradation. Room temp is best.
6. Once in a while, discharge the battery until the device cuts it off, fully charge it and leave
it on the charger for a short time. This moves as many ions as possible from one
electrode to the other keeping them free to move instead of “stubbornly stuck”.
7. Remember different companies make different formulations of Lithium ion and Li-
polymer that behave differently like High power, High capacity, long life ... there is always a
trade off.
shane wrote:
charge my battery
Karen wrote:
I just moved to a new office. Since moving my cell phone battery discharges (totaly-
phone will not turn on) after about 3 hrs in the office with no use. It has never done this
and now does it daily. There are several radars operating within 1/2 mile. Could they be
causing this? Tempature is cool and humidity is about 20%. The person who had the
office before me said it did the same to her. It does not affect my IPad or Laptop. What
could cause this and Is this damaging my battery? Thanks
BigMart wrote:
I am even more confused now than when I started (not difficult!). I used to use my Acer
5715Z series laptop battery running it off the mains all the time, where practicable. Now I
let it virtually fully discharge and then fully recharge. I now believe that it is wrong
So I am to let it discharge to 50% and then recharge it back to 70% ???
Is it okay to run the laptop without the battery inside?
Please help a simpleton !!
Guillaume wrote:
@BigMart
You want to run the laptop without the battery if you can. Don’t leave the battery in the
laptop when you are connected on the 120 Vca. A poor battery charger will reduce your
battery life with an bad charging method.
As it was said earlier, the optimal charge level is around 50% of the battery capacity. You
don’t want to go crazy with your laptop’s charge level. I suggest you to use the laptop
between 40-100% of your battery capacity and then recharge it.
BigMart wrote:
Thank you Guillaume for your comments.
I am afraid you are bit too technical for me! What is 120 Vca ? The battery charger is
within the laptop.
So I charge it up 50%, ie when it indicates 50% left. So what is 40-100% then?
As you can see I am so confused !!
BigMart wrote:
Would you agree with this supplier’s instructions?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290565009405&
Pavlo Maksyutenko wrote:
“The smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last”
is WRONG based on Table 2. Battery life = (number of cycles)x(depth of discharge). Table
2 shows that 50% DoD is the best.
BigMart wrote:
So what are you saying Pavlo? Discharge to 50% and then charge up to ???
John Fetter wrote:
On December 22, 2011 Ray Wells wrote, “Technology should behave in a way humans can
deal with”. He is 100% right. If batteries are powering computer equipment, it should be
easy for equipment manufacturers to include programming that learns how the equipment
is being used and to control battery charging accordingly for maximum life.
Simple. Unambiguous. The equipment would then be left plugged to a mains supply as
much as possible. It would automatically apply optimum charging. If it detects excessively
long absence from a mains supply, it warns the user.
They are not doing this simply because they want users to be confused and they want
batteries to stop working, on average, just out of warranty, so that they can sell more
batteries.
Des wrote:
A very in formative web page. I must admit that I have more than I knew about batteries. I
will refer your site to my friends.
Thanks to all for your wonderful contributions.
BigMart wrote:
I wish someone could give me simple answesr

.
I just want to know if I am running it on battery power how long I should let it run down to -
and then do I recharge it to full power. If I am running it through the mains do I take that to
full power? When running it on the mains do I take the battery out?
Thank you.
John Fetter wrote:
Go to supermarket, pick up something from the fresh produce section. it carries details
about the contents, cooking instructions, etc. Buy something with a battery, it carries
instructions that look remarkably like threats. Don’t do this, don’t do that. Will burn, will
explode. Hey, I just want to know how to use this thing!
Guillaume wrote:
@BigMart
Don’t let it drain out to maximize life expectancy. When you reach 25-40% remaining
capacity, you should start recharging it.
BigMart wrote:
I concur with John Fetter’s comments. Is there nobody out there that speaks plain
English?
BigMart wrote:
I take a coach / train journey every few weeks which lasts approx 2 hours. I use it then on
battery power. When I reach my destination I can then use mains.
So should I just run it off the mains when practical (removing the battery first?), or use
battery power, but when I am down to 25 - 40% (a big range), plug it in until it reaches
maximum?
Guillaume wrote:
@BigMart
With that kind of use, I would recommend to recharge the battery the day before your
coach / train journey. You may leave the battery at “whatever” remaining capacity for a few
weeks if this capacity is over 25%.
If the remaining capacity is below 25%, recharge it until it reaches 40% and then store it
until the next utilization.
Also, I suggest that you remove the battery from the laptop for an extended use on mains.
BigMart wrote:
Thanks Gullaume
As I will be using the laptop over a couple of days, so I will need to charge it up, use it on
batteries then use it on mains until it charges up again. So should I continue this process
until I get home? I will want it fully charged for my return journey.
John Fetter wrote:
My company was running a product ad on line that had absolutely nothing to do with
lithium ion batteries. We inadvertently worded it in a way that was interpreted by unhappy
lithium ion battery users to mean we could help them. The effect was like a tsunami. They
clicked away the ad budget for the day almost in the blink of an eye. It appears there are
very, very many very unhappy battery users out there.
The understand the advice that has been given. I personally do not find it difficult looking
after batteries. The vast majority of users are primarily interested in using, not in
mothering batteries. It is not right that the use of batteries requires user participation and
decision making in a process that will hopefully help to overcome critical product design
deficiencies.
Kells2122 wrote:
I loved what Derp & Luke Patrick had to say. It was in laymen terms that I could
understand. I just bought a new hi-cap battery for my hp laptop and want to make it
mobile. Now I understand how to do this. Thank you for the article and all the info.
Capt bob wrote:
have two 24 volt battery packs which run a 11 hp golf cart motor in my 10,500 lbs boat
Have been storeing batteries in insulated/heated garage 40 tp 60 F
outside temperature 10 to 30 F 40 to 60 days per year southern Utah
warmer rest of year
should I be leaving batteries outside in boat in the winter
John Fetter wrote:

Capt Bob - Assuming your 24V battery packs are lead-acid, if they were mine, I would give
them a full charge, ensure they are left disconnected and leave them outside in the boat in
winter, under cover. Fully charged sulfuric acid will not freeze like water but freezes just
above minus 40 degrees. Low temperature reduces chemical activity and therefore keeps
the batteries from discharging.
Jon wrote:
Great article but I still have questions: I just bought a new laptop. It will be used everyday
and the battery will need to be used on most days. I will have access to a power source
about as much time as will need to use the battery. Should I fully charge the battery to
100% everyday? Should I remove the battery when I can plug the laptop in even though the
battery is 100% or close to? I’m looking for any suggestions you might have on how I
should maintain my battery.
zachary wrote:
is there any way to condition a LI-ION if you failed to do the 8 hour charge the first use. i
was on the go when i recieved my cell. so it wasn’t charged properly the first two days? if i
leave it on charge for 8 straight hours will that condition it if done with in the first week?
cycle it? other procedure, or is it “day late dollar short”
Steven wrote:
I still use my 1st Gen iphone from 2007 and the battery capacity is still good. Everyday
when I’m home, the iphone goes on the cradle and gets charged overnight, regardless of
how much battery is left, (usually over 50%). Most of the modern gadgets that use Li-ion
battery have smart charger that will cut off when the battery is fully charged. I guess
charging my iphone every night since 2007 have prolong the life of the battery. So I concur
with the article.
Martin wrote:
What is the difference between taking out the battery from a laptop while not in use, and
leaving the battery in there, switched off ?
Wombat wrote:
is there a safe way to “wake up” a Li-ion battery relatively safely at home? i have a number
of batteries from drills that won’t charge and only show 11-12v (they are 18v packs)
AlaskaPop wrote:
Great information, historical, evolving to present-future. Should help me conserve some

legacy systems beyond ‘average’, which is better than I could have managed before
reading this essay Now I need to figure out the charger actions of a couple of
laptop/power-adapter combinations, and use habits of my associates. Avoid heat, full
discharge, prolonged idle, and on really old systems, overcharge, and we should see good
use life. Thanks all.
logo items wrote:
Li-ion or Lithium Ion are often used in newly produced laptop and mobile device. Actually i
wrote about Laptop Battery Maintenance before, it’s about how to maintain your laptop
battery by doing regular fully cycle (fully charge and then fully discharge). But, later i know
that those methods are only work on Ni-Cad and Ni-Mh battery.
Rajdeep Singh wrote:
Following the advise of a blog, I started storing my Laptop and Mobile battery in an air
tight container. After reading this article, I am confused whether to leave them there or
store them in room temperature ? I live in India where summer temperatures soar to 45
degrees. Centigrade. Will room temperatures be safe ? Please advise. Thank you for this
wonderful article and do convey my best wishes to derp ( honestly he is a good soul )
haddy wrote:
should i disconnect after my battery is full or should i keep it connected to charger
On March 10, 2012 at 12:14am
You should disconnect
Matt J. wrote:
Several commentators have confirmed what I long suspected: that a smart charger will
detect when a battery is full and dial back the voltage. But they have also confirmed that
not all chargers are this smart: so the natural question is: how do I tell if the charger I am
considering buying, or the charger that came with my computer is that smart or not?
Matt J., you just have to have confidence on the Charger which comes with the Computer.
There’s no other alternative. if you buy a charger, make sure it matches the specifications
and it is from the same company as that of the Computer.
You just have to have confidence on the Charger which comes with the Computer. Should
you buy a new one, the specifications should match the Computer’s requirement and
should be from the same Company as that of the Computer.
On March 14, 2012 at 10:36pm
Matt J wrote:
@Rajdeep—That is asking a lot. Especially since the published specs for both the OEM
and aftermarket chargers do not INCLUDE The information. They all claim, for example, to
be capable of charging LiON batteries. The aftermarket chargers also come with a long
list of model#s of laptops they claim to support. But since this article and the comments
claim that many of them do not dial down the voltage when the battery is charged, no, I do
NOT have confidence on the Charger which comes with the Computer.” Not without an
explicit guarantee.
Ofcourse the specs in the Battery are mentioned. haven’t you noticed it ? In several articles
and blogs you will read on the ways how to calibrate your Laptop Battery. Read that too.
Don’t go for any charger. Insist on the one you were using earlier. That way you are safe.
My earnest submission to you ~ One, buy an original charger which came with your
Laptop and second learn how to calibrate your battery periodically. There is no reason why
your battery charging indication should be wrong. Let me know. I am just trying to help
you.
Gary wrote:
wrt Bigmart’s question on Jan.31 “What is 120Vca?” - I believe he meant 120 VAC, which
stands for volts AC, standard mains in N. America.
batman forever wrote:
mi psp no se quiere cargar.al ir a cargarla en unos segundos se apaga dazme soluciones
With my apologies ~ request you to kindly post your queries in English only
Matt J wrote:
Charging a battery in just seconds is NEVER a good idea, ‘batman forever’. Remember
what the article above says about heat shortening the life of the battery: charging too fast
WILL raise the temperature too high and shorten its life.
Tina wrote:
I am sorry about my lack of understanding but I just purchased a new battery for my
laptop. I have an HP Pavillion. It came with 74% charge so I continued to charge it to
100%. Now I want to make sure that my new battery lasts longer than my old battery. I
tried reading and understanding the article but my brain cannot seem to process it. Do I
allow the battery to completely discharge and recharge? If so, how often? If not, how far
down, percentage wise, do I allow the battery to discharge before I allow it to recharge.
Again, my apologies for my lack of understanding. Thanks!
Matt J. wrote:
@Tina The article was not THAT hard to read;) But the answers to your questions are all
based on the following principle expressed in the article: shallow charge/discharge cycles
are better for battery life than deep ones. So No, you do not allow it to completely
discharge. 10% discharges allow the battery to last for much longer, but are themselves
too small to really be practical. If your laptop and charger have good control over the
charging current, (a question this article does not even try to answer), then you should just
leave it plugged as often as possible.
Big Mart wrote:
I have to agree with Tina. I found the responses very confusing.
So, Matt J, are you saying you should leave the laptop plugged in with the battery as often
as possible? What I have gained from the article and responses, is I have left the battery
drop to approx 50%. I have removed the battery and running the laptop (where
practicable) off the mains. Is this right? If not, please explain so myself and Tina can
understand it.
Thank you.
Matt J. wrote:
@Big Mart - Close, but not quite. What I said is that you “should leave the laptop plugged in
with the battery as often as possible” IF the charging circuity is high enough quality.
Unfortunately, neither this article nor the vendor specs tell us enough about the chargers:
but overcharging is also bad for batteries, and poor chargers WILL overcharge the battery.
I am not sure which of my computers and chargers have high enough quality. I feel pretty
confident of the Apple computers, less so of Radio Shack or Targus chargers bought for
IBM compatibles.
For Tina ~ All new batteries come in a semi discharged state. You should have charged it
fully and even after that for atleast two hours before using your computer. Never
mine…...Now charge the battery fully before using it. Let me know !!
For Tina ~ Follow this. Allow the battery to charge fully ( with your Laptop off ) Once
charged use your laptop on battery mode till it discharges and you get a pop up
suggesting that you have to charge your battery. Again charge your battery ( with your
computer off ) and use your battery as above. only once in a while you may use your
Laptop plugged in with the battery fully ( A circuit in the battery stops the battery being
charged once it attains 100% so as to protect the battery from being over charged ) If you
a using your Laptop more as a desktop for more than two weeks, it is better to take out the
battery and keep it in a coll dry place. But please use your battery atleast once in a month.
Please store your Laptop battery at 40% ~ 45 % charge level ` at which oxidation takes
place the least.
For Tina ~ Once in a while, in plugged in mode with the battery in your Laptop go to all
programmes > H.P.Support Assistant > Trouble Shooting > Power and Thermal > Battery
check. ( click on Battery check and wait ) Your Laptop will tell you the state of your
battery. So far your battery is new, you should not a have a problem. If you get a message
saying CALIBRATE YOUR BATTERY, please feel free to contact me at
rajdeep218@gmail.com
Big Mart wrote:
@MattJ Thank you for your advice. What should I do then with my Acer Aspire 5715Z.
The only charger I have for it is the charger within the laptop.
Should I put the battery back in and then use the laptop off the mains? Do I do anything
more when it reaches 100% charged?
I use my PC most of the time, and tend to only use the laptop when I away from home,
ever 2 - 3 weeks for a weekend.
Tina wrote:
@Big Mart…thanks for agreeing with me.

@Rajdeep and @Matt J…I am a bit conflicted now with what you are both saying. Do I
allow it to completely discharge then? I thought completely discharging a Lithium-ion
battery was NOT a good idea.
Sorry again for my confused state of mind…lol!
if you are mostly on the PC it is better that you take out the battery and store at 40% to 45
% and store it till you work on your Laptop over weekends Once charged to 100%, power
your laptop from the battery till it drains and again charge to 100 % preferably with your
Laptop off. This will ensure that your battery is always in working condition Nothing to do
when your battery is fully charged. Just remember never to store batteries at 100%, no
matter what. Use your Laptop and bring it down to atleast 45% before storing. Remember
your charger is only working when you are on plugged in mode. In battery mode your
charger is off so nothing to worry !! please make sure before inserting your battery that the
contact points are clean. Gently rub an eraser over the contacts and blow off the remnants
from the points. If you follow thee points, i am sure your battery will give you good service.
All the best !!
For Tina ~ Complete discharge is known as deep discharge. which means your computer
hibernates. No this is not good especaially for the hard disk as a reverse voltage can
cause serious damage. When the voltage drops to say 14% a pop up tells you to plug in
before your Laptop hibernate. Rightly so. So just charge your battery Preferably with your
Laptop off till it attains 100%. A second Pop Up ( I too have a HP Pavilion g4 ) appears
later when you are on 11%.PLEASE DONOT TAKE A RISK AND START CHARGING.
Somebody suggested 10% to indicate a deeper discharge in an effort to calibrate the
battery but that is different subject altogether which your new battery will not require now.
And Tina please remember that all HP laptops reveal the correct battery reading as long
as you have the applicable charger and battery ( which comes from HP )and you have not
messed around trying to calibrate your battery.In the beginning every one is scared ~ but
later it will be your Laptop which will teach you a lot of things so dont have to feel
embarrassed.
Tina wrote:
@Rajdeep Sing ...YOU ROCK!!! I am all set to go. See I have my Master’s Degree in Reading
unfortunately not all types of reading…lol. Thank you very much for not letting me feel
stupid or embarassed!
BigMart wrote:
Thank you Rajdeep. However, if I am running the laptop using battery power it will
probably run out of power while I am still using it (should I let it drain completely, or start
recharging it at, say 10%?), so therefore I would have to recharge it with the laptop on.
Does that make much difference?
For Bill Mart ~ suppose you are on battery, wait till the second pop up arrives ( 11% ) and
then start charging you battery ( plug in mode ) if you have important work to do, carry on.
There’s no harm. Preferably put the laptop off cos a lot of heat is being generated ( while
charging the battery gets hot otherwise too and secondly the Laptop generates enough
heat when on ). Remember the biggest enemy of your battery is heat. Apart from this
there’s no difference if you charge your battery with the Laptop on. All the Best.
For Tina ~ The objective of blogs and articles is to ensure people exchange ideas and
learn. At one time, I too, was ignorant. today I feel happy that i am in a position to
reassure people. Maybe one day people will ask you about Laptops and you will be able to
answer their queries
Big Mart wrote:
Cheers for that.
If I have finished what I am doing and it has got to say 60%, do let it continue up to 100%
and then run down, or just run down from that 60%?
Just want to be absolutely clear on what I am doing !
Run down from 60%. to 11%. Put off your computer and charge as usual to 100%. i agree,
its better to be sure.
Matt J. wrote:
@Rajdeep- Don’t feel too happy, your claims are quite contradictory to the basic claims of
this article. No, he should NOT wait until the battery is discharged to 11% That would be
one of the deep discharges that shortens battery life.
@Matt.J ~ If my suggestion is in contradiction to this article, why does even a company

like HP has pop ups coming at 14% and then again at 11% by DEFAULT.. The company
insists that BEFORE YOU CHARGE YOUR BATTERY, YOU SHOULD DISCHARGE IT ~
KEEPING IN VIEW A FULL DISCHARGE CYCLE. Every one knows that if you go beyond
11%, the Laptop will hibernate, so the cut off point is 11% WHICH IS NOT A DEEP
DISCHARGE. Had this been so, the companys would insist you charge your battery earlier,
say at 20% or 25%, and the Pop ups would appear then…....... This has been agreed upon
by HP too.. I don’t know which Laptop you have but I suggest you illicit their opinion too on
the matter.And if you not agreeable to my suggestion, its better you don’t follow it. THERE
IS NO COMPULSION !!
Matt J. wrote:
@Rajdeep
Completely hypothetical speculation is no substitute for reading and understanding the

article. Especially not when that speculation relies on unlimited benevolence of a
company.
Discharging to 11% IS deep enough to have a significant effect on battery life, no matter
what HP chargers say. That is clear from the article.
Big Mart wrote:
Well I am now even more confused. Is there anybody that works in the battery industry
that can give a definitive response?
@ Big Mart ~ Ask Matt J. ~ he seems to be an authority on this subject. !

@ Matt.J. ~ You’ve got me wrong again. No where in the article it says that 11% is ” deep
enough to have a significant effect on battery life ” This is purely based on your
assumption. Throughout my comments I have bee n mentioning ” COMPANY ” and you
said ” no matter what hp chargers say “. For your kind information, no charger
manufacturing company in the world specifies, the level at which a battery should be
recharged ( 11% / 14% ) that is purely the responsibility of the Laptop manufacturing
company. Chargers just indicate, basic specifications. its the laptop manufacturing
company which tells you when to recharge..If you own an android mobile phone , you
should be familiar with Lithium batteries. Just go to Google search and you will see
hordes of articles and blogs on Lithium batteries ~ on how to maintain them, charging
etc.WHATEVER INFORMATION I AM POSTING HERE IS NOT HEARSAY ~ THEY ARE
BASED ON MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND CONFIRMED BY H P .
On May 7, 2012 at 5:48pm
Eske Rahn wrote:
Hi
Thanks for a great article!
But I wonder if the conclusion drawn on table 2 are absolutely accurate?
Here I have extended it with a third column, taking the deterioration into account.
DoD Cycles Total Usabilty

100% 500 435
50% 1500 638
25% 2500 531
10% 4700 400
The added last column says how many times of “full charge” you will get out of the battery
in total during its life time with each approach.
Assuming a linear deterioration of the battery from 100% to 70% of its original capacity
(This assumption is backed by a graph in the article)
So the integration is simple, and can be replaced by a mean factor of 85% [*] to the pure
product.
This would yield that the optimal total capacity gained from the battery over its lifetime is
a DOD of around 50%
(Plotting the four points and combining with a smooth curve indicates that the maximum
is around 60-50% DoD)
[*]
More precisely
Sum{n=0 to N-1 of DoD*(1-30%*n/N) }
=DoD*(N - 30%*Sum{n=0 to N-1 of n/N})
=DoD*(N - 30%(N-1)/2)
=DoD*(N*85%-15%)
~DoD* N*85%
Best Regards
Eske Rahn
On May 13, 2012 at 10:39am
Gama Xul wrote:
This information has allowed me to fully recover the use of Lithium-ion cordless drill
batteries for I had thought were irreversibly damaged. It’s good to understand a little bit of
the science and practices of batteries and long-term storage. I’m taking far better care of
my tool batteries now, and I’m running on a set of two I hadn’t previously cared for
properly. Life extended by two years so far! Thanks for this information.
On May 14, 2012 at 12:43pm
Xiaopang wrote:
Matt J., you’re quite exaggerating by claiming that discharging down to 11% is already a
deep discharge. Think logically for a moment: Companies have the legal obligation to
deliver products who function within the expectations of their end users. If a product
would actually be damaged extraordinarily (in this case a deep discharge would qualify for
that) while its use is also within what could be expected from a normal user, then this
might make the company vulnerable to law suits. Not just because they’d sell a falsely
advertised product, but also because it would be dangerous.
A deep discharge should be avoided not just because it might ruin the battery, but also
because such a battery might suddenly start to burn or even explode. Windows allows to
go way below 11% (Xp 3%, Vista/7 5%), so as a result millions batteries would be
damaged and a plethora might catch fire and burn…but that doesn’t happen…and for a
reason:
A deep discharge per definition is when the cell voltage drops below a specified value. For
4.2V cell phone batteries this value is usually around 2.5V (60%). For notebook batteries
that usually operate in the range of 10-12V I couldn’t find any values, but applying the
same ratio as above, 60% would equal 6-7.2V.
To actually debunk your carelessly spit out claim I actually let my Notebook discharge the
battery down to 30mW (0%) while I measured the battery voltage. The battery usually
operated at 11.5V when the computer is connected with the charger. On battery the
voltage is around 11V and goes down the more the battery is discharged. At 30mW charge
the battery still had a cell voltage of 9.6V and thus was way above what would qualify for a
deep discharge.
A deep discharge usually only occurs if a battery is used by devices that don’t turn off
automatically on low charge and draw so little charge themselves that batteries can be
discharged much longer and deeper than through normal devices.
Notebooks not just turn off automatically, they also need a pretty high charge level to even
power up, so using up the battery entirely still leaves enough charge for the battery to not
be damaged (anything else would be a pretty big oversight/design flaw, wouldn’t it). Li-ion
batteries are equipped with small chipsets though that control the charging process and
report stats back to the operating system. This also draws power, so discharging a battery
down to 0% and storing it like that for weeks would eventually result in a deep discharge.
So, for all of those who are in doubt: try it out yourself if you are unsure. You can measure
the battery voltage with hardware monitor.
On May 15, 2012 at 9:14am
Matt J. wrote:
I just cannot believe how many people comment here without having a clue what they are
talking about. You, Xiaopang, are one of these. DId you even LOOK at Table 2? How did you
miss the huge difference in number of cycles for a battery discharged to 10%? You are the
one who completely missed what the article says, I got it right.
On May 16, 2012 at 6:17am
Xiaopang wrote:
No Matt, you just can’t read and throw any term into the ring that makes sense to you,
regardless of its meaning. Your words:
“No, he should NOT wait until the battery is discharged to 11% That would be one of the
deep discharges that shortens battery life.”
My reply was about explaining how 11% is NOT a deep discharge, because there is a clear
definition of what a deep discharge is and which you apparently don’t know. I also never
claimed that discharging the battery by 100% would not limit its recharge cycles. I didn’t
even go near that.
You, Matt, need to learn to comprehend instead of just looking at a few isolated numbers
in the desperate attempt to find proof for the twisted ideas you apparently try to convey.
You’re welcome to disprove what I actually said by using my own words, instead of just
claiming that you got it right, while you clearly have no clue what you’re talking about…
Just to not just let your little statement die like it probably should, I’ll put table 2 into
perspective. Something you should have done yourself instead of treating as the absolute
truth.
First of all, table 2 is based on 4.2V cell phone batteries, while I was talking about
notebook batteries. Both types are designed for totally different uses. While a cell phone
battery is the sole source of energy for a cell phone’s life and is being recharged on a
regular basis, a notebook battery is only there to deliver occasional power to a much
greater extent. Charging also only takes place occasionally (granted the
user/software/charging electronics) behave properly.
Secondly, the number of charges is determined by using an arbitrary value of battery life.
The text even says so itself. Did you even read it or did you just look at the pretty graphs
and numbers? The threshold value could be anything and the resulting measurements are
of little use for other batteries. Proof lies in the numbers itself:
100% * 500 cycles = 50.000% total charge

10% * 4700 cycles = 47.000% total charge
Discharging a battery by 100% nets more charge over the battery’s life than only using it up
by 10%. So, even if the words you laid in my mouth were actually uttered by me, I’d still be
right due to the fact that you didn’t analyze what you argued with.
Even better: The arbitrary threshold of 70% is unrealistic. Who gets rid of a battery just
because the cell phone only offers 3 weeks of standby instead of 4? Who buys a
horrendously expensive notebook battery just because the battery only delivers 5 hours of
work time instead of 7? A threshold of 30% would be much more realistic and would
probably show that the 100% discharge nets much more charge than the 10% one. The
gap between 50% and 25% discharge would probably also get a lot smaller, or may be
even vanish at all. I don’t know and you don’t either, but the 10% - 100% discrepancy shows
that this table is of little worth for your argument.
Repeat the test with a wide array of current notebook batteries of different brands with at
least 10 per brand to minimize statistical flukes and then you have some numbers to
argue with. Right now you have squat, let alone logic or analytical skills.
On May 16, 2012 at 1:29pm
Matt J. wrote:
No, Xiaoping, you are the one guilty of the lion’s share of the charges you fling at me. You
were right about one thing: you should have “let my little statement die” instead of
responding with your angry screed.
I never said anything about throwing a battery out after it is “deep discharged”. Nor if
discharged to 11%. Neither does the article. Nor about throwing it out after three weeks of
standby. That is your fantasy. But the difference between 11% and 10% is obviously small.
And how did you miss the title of the article? Despite your pretense, it is NOT specifically
about 4.2V batteries, it is about Li-ion in general.
Your angry screed, full of equivocation, shows only your own inability to understand either
me or the article. If anyone ever gets anything useful out of it—which is doubtful—it will be
the article’s author realizing what he could have worded differently to better avoid
confusion and needless arguments.
But even if he had worded it perfectly, there is nothing he can do for anyone clueless
enough to believe as you do, that “Companies have the legal obligation to deliver products
who function within the expectations of their end users”. That was funny. Why did you
THINK most software license agreements disavow any “fitness of purpose”? They would
not be able to do this if your ‘legal obligation’ were real. Newsflash: it is not.
On May 16, 2012 at 3:59pm
Tom V Martin wrote:
@Matt
Refering to Table 2
Assuming a 10% DoD gives you 1 unit of use and you can recharge it 4700 times you’ve
gotten 4700 units of use out of the battery.
Now if you have a 25% DoD you get 2.5 units of use per recharge. You can recharge it
2500 times you’ve now gotten 6250 units of use from the battery.
If you have a 50% DoD you now get 5 units of use per recharge. You can recharge it 1500
times you’ve now gotten 7500 units of use from the battery.
If you have a 100% DoD you’ve now gotten 10 units of use per recharge. You can recharge
it 500 times you’ve now gotten 5000 units of use from the battery.
In addition keeping the battery topped off is contradictory to the information contained in
Table 3.
I’ve found I obtain the best life and length of use between charges by allowing the battery
to dischage till the device tells me it needs to be recharged, and then recharging it at that
time.
On May 16, 2012 at 7:03pm
Craig wrote:
I must admit to being slightly confused. You say “the worst condition is keeping a fully
charged battery at elevated temperatures, which is the case when running a laptop on the
power grid” but then go to say “The question is often asked: Should I disconnect my laptop
from the power grid when not in use? Under normal circumstances this should not be
necessary because once the lithium-ion battery is full, a correctly functioning charger will
discontinue the charge and will only engage when the battery voltage drops to a low level.
Most users do not remove the AC power, and I like to believe that this practice is safe.”
Surely leaving the laptop plugged in all the time will lead to “keeping a fully charged
battery at elevated temperatures”, no?
On May 21, 2012 at 12:33am
Xiaopang wrote:
Looks like a few comments were deleted, including my reply to Matt and that without an
explanation…nice.
Matt: Here’s the gist of my last reply.
“You were right about one thing: you should have “let my little statement die” instead of
responding with your angry screed.”
Yeah, try to sweep the fact under the rug that I cleared up your whole misconception about
deep discharges and the erroneous “advice” you gave with it. That was also the sole
purpose of my comment, so I guess I was right about two statements. Not a bad quota in
a two statement post…
“I never said anything about throwing a battery out after it is “deep discharged”. Nor if
discharged to 11%.”
Never said you did.
“Neither does the article. “
The article used 70% capacity as a threshold and called it “end of life”. I’d pretty much call
a battery that has reached its end “dead”. What do you do with dead batteries? I throw
them out…
“Nor about throwing it out after three weeks of standby. That is your fantasy.”
No, that was an analogy to show you how useless numbers based on such high thresholds
are. By definition of the article, you’d have to get rid of batteries at that point because they
are considered dead. The conclusion you should reach, other than being sidetracked by
your own poor way of arguing, is that a more realistic threshold might show that the
charge that could be expected would be pretty much even for certain charge levels. May
be the opposite would be the case, but no one knows that. That’s why you can’t use the
numbers as a basis of your argument. Their nature just doesn’t allow any conclusions.
“But the difference between 11% and 10% is obviously small.”
10% DISCHARGE of Table 2 != 11% CHARGE (=89% discharge). Yeah, the difference
between 10 and 89% (or 90 and 11% if you want to look at the charge levels) is obviously
small…
“And how did you miss the title of the article? Despite your pretense, it is NOT specifically
about 4.2V batteries, it is about Li-ion in general.”
And where does the article say that the protection circuit is the same for cell phone and
notebook batteries? You imply they work exactly the same, even though that makes no
sense at all since both battery types are designed for totally different usage scenarios.
“Your angry screed, full of equivocation, shows only your own inability to understand either
me or the article.”
Your obvious lack of understanding and your poor way of arguing make me rather smile
than angry. How you get anger out of my reply is beyond me, but you’ve been
misinterpreting the article and my replies so much that I’m not really surprised.
Btw, provide proof for your so called equivocations. My replies are right there. Use quotes
for once in your life.
” If anyone ever gets anything useful out of it—which is doubtful—it will be the article’s
author realizing what he could have worded differently to better avoid confusion and
needless arguments.”
The article is very clear in what it says. It just doesn’t take amateurs like you into account
who can’t even distinguish percentages of charge and discharge levels…
“But even if he had worded it perfectly, there is nothing he can do for anyone clueless
enough to believe as you do, that “Companies have the legal obligation to deliver products
who function within the expectations of their end users”. That was funny. “
Just because you found it funny doesn’t make it untrue. What I described is part of many
case law and codified law based countries. You clearly are no lawyer and you also clearly
lack proper common knowledge:
“If a defective product causes an accident that results in death, injury or property damage,
the manufacturer, distributor, retailer and lessor of the product may be liable for the
damages caused by the product. [...] The plaintiff must establish that a product has a
defect that made it unreasonably dangerous at the time the product left the control of the
defendant. [...] It may also be possible to show that the product was defective because it
did not perform in keeping with the user’s reasonable expectations.”
Source: http://www.osbar.org/public/legalinfo/1047_DefectiveProducts.htm
“Why did you THINK most software license agreements disavow any “fitness of
purpose”?”
Software != Hardware. Software doesn’t explode or catch fire when being deep
discharged. Also, show me such an agreement for any non-Software product. You won’t
find any, but just in case you do, it would be in violation of basically any western law.
On May 25, 2012 at 4:15pm
Celine Suchanek wrote:
I had a question.
I have a 2.3 android with the BL-4D 3.7 volt Li-on battery. I have found that overcharging
does reduce battery life. I have had the phone only a couple of months and I do not use it a
lot because each time I do after a couple of hours the battery is low. I received two
batteries with the phone but it is still a problem. I have let it get to 0 percent a couple of
times and recharged it to 100 percent. This has not helped. I know not smart but it was a
suggestion I read before I read the article. I have not had problems with previous phones
when it comes to battery life. Am I doing something wrong? I e-mailed the company but
they have not responsed. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also what android phone
has the best battery life?
Is there an extended version of the battery I have?
On May 29, 2012 at 10:39am
Cadex Electronics Inc. wrote:
Hello all,
This article has been updated with lots of new information from Isidor.
Enjoy!
Brandon
On May 29, 2012 at 10:59am
Joe wrote:
These days, we have a lot of Smart Phones on the market like the Iphone which we cannot
remove the battery for charging using other machine. Is there a way, we could analyze or
using other accessories to charge it white the battery still inside the phone.
On June 8, 2012 at 11:15pm
azam uddin wrote:
This ‘tree-power’ article is pretty interesting. For those of you who may be well-versed in…
charge an ‘e-vehicle’s’ battery pack? ‘Electrical circuit runs…39;s enough power in trees for
University of Washington researchers to…
On June 12, 2012 at 1:25am
Andre Gardner wrote:
Hi
I’ve been monitoring my battery wear for a while now carefully with BatteryBar Pro v3.5.4
and my conclusion is that over-discharging and over-charging your battery is damaging
and always results in wear.
So now I never allow the battery to trickle charge to 100% pulling out the plug before
around 90% to 95% max. I then run the battery until around 50% to 35% and then start
charging it again. By doing this all the time, BatteryBar Pro registers the minimum amount
of wear. In fact a slip from this regime always seems to result in a few percentage points
of wear. I think I basically do manually what some systems can do automatically through a
setting in the BIOS (wish I knew about this feature before buying my laptop!).
So that’s my comment really. I really recommend BatterBar Pro so you can really keep an
eye on what is going on. But remember the computer needs a restart for any wear level
numbers to be updated.
Hope his helps!
Andre
On July 3, 2012 at 1:02am
demajoor wrote:
this is for laptops i presume

i dont think this works for phones like the htc one x or has that been tested to?
Big Mart wrote:
Andre
If you never charge it to 100%, what about when you want to use just battery power? I will
be going on a train journey tomorrow, and want to use it on the way. There are rarely mains
sockets. I want the maximum amount of time available.
To reply to Big Mart
I think the best thing to do is to charge to something like 97% to 98% and that will restrict
the battery wear to the absolute minimum and won’t have to compromise too much batter
capacity.
Having said that I think it is inevitable that you will need to fully discharge the battery from
time to time when on the train for example but you just bear in mid that this will most likely
damage you battery a bit unfortunately.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Big Mart wrote:
I think my battery for the laptop is now almost at the end of its useful life ! I can only get
just over an hour from it when fully charged.
Is there anywhere that is recommended to buy a replacement one. I did ask the laptop
manufacturer (Acer) but it was horrendously expensive.
Thanks in anticipation
On July 6, 2012 at 10:18am
Just search for it in Google by putting in the model name with the words “replacement
battery” in the search box. Note that laptop batteries are not that cheap you should expect
to pay at least $50.
On July 6, 2012 at 10:23am
Big Mart wrote:
Thank you Andre. I just wondered if anyone knew of a good reliable company.
On July 25, 2012 at 7:14am
Hassan wrote:
Hi….This is Hassan…i have hp probook 4530….The battery is PR06 Notebook Battery

3ICR19/66-2….10.8Vdc 4200mAh….I face power outages almost after every one or two
hours. If i charge my battery to 40% and then put in fridge and during power outage i will
use the battery. Is this practice a good one? If yes plz tell me the %charging that i should
use for the battery.
On August 8, 2012 at 6:55pm
John Feltz wrote:
I’ve written a small program to perform unattended shutdowns of battery powered devices
(such as laptops) at specific charges. It is for Ubuntu or Linux users, however if there is
enough interest I’ll consider porting it for windows and mac:
https://github.com/jfeltz/powersleep
Daniel Dourado wrote:
The charger that came with my Motorola Razr is 5.1 v… How come? If the maximum is
4.2?
Herve wrote:
I read the original version of this article (whose only table was the very enlightening Table
3) many years ago, thanks to the authors for updating it with more tables and very
informative data.
I’m afraid there are two typos left:
- in the comment on Figure 1: “A pool of new 1500mA Li-ionbatteries”—> should be “A pool
of new 1500mAh Li-ion batteries”
- in the comment on Table 4: “Every 0.01V drop”—> should be “Every 0.1V drop” to match
the table values (e.g. 4.2 to 4.1).
GEO wrote:
muito bom parabéns

Janet wrote:
The battery university is a tremendous service. Thanks for keeping it updated. I agree
with Herve’s typo corrections above.
I worked with batteries for many years, so I hope my words will take away some of the
battery and charging anxiety that many have expressed in the comments. Here are the
key things to remember about Li Ion:
1. Li Ion has a long shelf life, except if it is stored fully discharged. Hence, the common
recommendation to store at about 40% state of charge or above. STORE BETWEEN 100%
AND 40% STATE OF CHARGE..
2. All name brand companies produce chargers that stop the LiIon charge at 100%. It is
the best practice to allow the charger to complete the charge. Opportunistic charging
(less than full charge) is ok and will not harm the battery. There are electronic control
modules either in the battery pack or the charger that decide when the charge is
complete. USE THE MANUFACTURER’S CHARGER AND ALLOW THE CHARGE TO
COMPLETE MOST OF THE TIME.
3. You do not need to store the battery in the refrigerator and it may be harmful to store
the battery in the freezer. Your battery is happy at the same temperature you are
comfortable. The most important thing you can do for the battery is do not leave it in the
car on a hot day. Same goes for your dog or your kids. STORE THE BATTERY AT ROOM
TEMPERATURE.
4. If you are usually plugged in when you work, the battery does not even need to be in
your laptop. (Check your instruction book or if you have children, use good judgment.)
Just make sure the battery terminals are taped so you do not inadvertently short it. OR Try
not plugging in the laptop some work sessions. Most will tell you when the battery is
getting low and you have plenty of time to plug it in (but this is using up your battery life).
Either way avoids keeping the battery at full state of charge all the time and repetitive
charging (starting charge on a fully chargd battery) which is detrimental to battery life.
There is a variety of charger quality on the market. Some battery/charger combinations
will detect this situation sooner than others. TRY NOT TO KEEP YOUR BATTERY ON
CHARGE OR FULLY CHARGED ALL THE TIME.
I understand the batteries are expensive and you want the most life out of them. To get
the most life from the battery really is as simple as the 4 BEST PRACTICES listed above.
Your life is too short to be babysitting your batteries trying to decide the depth of
discharge for today and/or running to the fridge for a battery. Enjoy.
Matt J. wrote:
Janet wrote: ” USE THE MANUFACTURER’S
CHARGER AND ALLOW THE CHARGE TO COMPLETE MOST OF THE TIME.”
To which I reply:
But on what grounds do you assert that it has to be the manufacturer’s charger? Why
wouldn’t a Targus Universal Charger (for example) have a control module capable of doing
the control just as well?
Janet wrote:
It is best to use a charger designed for the intended product. If there is a reliable third
party charger specificly intended to charge the battery for your product then it would also
be acceptable. This is for safety reasons so that the monitoring and control circuits
usually within the battery pack operate correctly to control the battery charge.
On September 25, 2012 at 2:12pm
jay wrote:
What about using a Touchstone dock (Hp Touchpad) The general consensus on the
touchpad forums is that it is safe to pop the touchpad on the wireless dock which also
charges it to full capacity…Most people are leaving their touchpads on this dock every
night and day and taking it off inbetween for minimal use. Ie checking email, browsing
then throw it straight back on the touchstone.
This would seem to indicate that these touchpads are permanently living at 100% or near
caoacity at all of the time….Can this be safe or healthy for long term maintenence?
Apparently their does seem to be a rash of issues re the hp touchpads battery not waking
from powering off or discharging.
Maybe keeping it topped off can save it from accidentally deep discharging, as it seems
the auto power off chip may not be functioning correct with the software/hardware
john h wrote:
thanks to (almost) all who contribute here. I have really enjoyed reading the articles and
the comments/speculations. I have a few of my own, and I would love to hear back from
all (almost) of you. First, from reading the comments and seeing that there is not 100%
agreement on the “do’s and don’ts”, it would seem to me there is a missing factor, which I
would respectfully suggest is manufacturing quality of the battery. From my own
experience, I have had some devices which were abused, yet maintained good runtime
capacities for long lifespans, as well as others that were “babied” and died ridiculously
premature and expensive deaths. In the case of laptop packs and other multiple cell
assemblies like those used with cordless tools, my forensic investigations reveal
individual cells which have failed either by shorting or some form of diminished capacity
which renders the entire pack useless.
My question today concerns the use of different charging connections and their effect on
rates/quality of charge; as was mentioned by some, the charging circuitry is contained
within the device (cell phone). As such, how is it that I get a faster charge from, say, the
one that plugs into the cigarette lighter as compared to the one that is usb powered?
Obviously the voltage sources are different, but does that mean the phone is so “smart” it
is deciding for me whether I want a quick charge or a very slow one? Shouldn’t the phone
look at the incoming source and automatically regulate it down to the appropriate rate? All
of the automotive and 120v receptacle charges I have charge at a rate that is much faster
than usb. Is then the usb the preferred way?
thanks
carol wrote:
How about the larger Li Ion batteries used in yard tools? Mine have decreased their life of
charge time as well as the time it takes to charge them fully. These are “green works”
batteries. Is there a way to turn this around and get the longer charge time back?
john h wrote:
Hi Carol
I will get my 2 cents worth in and then hopefully some others will have something to add.
From what you are describing, which includes both short run times and long charge times,
I would have to conclude that your battery packs are reaching the end of their useful lives.
The condition you describe sounds to me like the internal resistance of the batteries is
rising. If you ascribe to the philosophies of B.U., then you understand that it is not
possible to rejuvenate the lithium cells, and could also be dangerous to try. Unfortunately,
the lesson you have learned is one I think most of us are perpetually repeating, and I am
struggling to understand completely what the process is that destroys most of these
cells. I have had very very few of these lithium cells which lived up to their stated life
expectancies. My own experience would suggest 3 main factors: #1: Quality / proper use
of charger circuit. #2.: Quality of actual Lithium cells. #3: Usage patterns and
environmental (heat) considerations. The comments listed above from Janet are along
the same lines as what I believe; In effect, we are inadvertently “killing” a lot of these by
putting them/ leaving them on chargers that are not well engineered.
carol wrote:
Thanks John H. I was just hoping that there was a trick to actually getting the
performance from the batteries that was promised in the sales pitch for the product. Silly
me!
Raphael wrote:
My Lenovo G480 and other current Lenovo notebooks as I know has a software called
“energy management system” which you can tweak to make the battery fully charge in
case you’re always using unit without the AC power or it will have the charger charge the
battery up to 60% level if you’re frequently using the AC power. Now I know the rationale of
this “60%” after reading this article. Thank you…
Mohammad wrote:
tnx for useful artice… I have a new lenovo Y580 and I don’t know how to charge it for the
first time….would u help me plz..
Andrew G wrote:
My Nikon digital SLR (D50) was bought in December 2005. I’ve taken about 7000 pictures,
so I guess the camera isn’t used a great deal. It’s run by an EN-EL3a Li-Ion, 7.4v 1500 mAh
battery pack. I recharge the battery (8.4v, 0.9amp Nikon charger) as soon as the camera
displays a ‘low battery’ symbol in the viewfinder. I guess I recharge the battery 6 to 10
times a year.
But I’m worried as I’m still using the original battery….
I know I’ve only recharged it (maybe) 70 times. Well short of the 200+ re-charge cycles.
But the camera / battery never get cold or hot. As soon as the charge is complete, I put
the battery back in the camera. At the rate I use the battery, will it last another 7 years? Or
is there a finite time it will last?
I have a digital volt meter. Is there a simple measurement I could make - that would give
me an indication how much life there is in the battery pack?
FYI: Immediately after charging the battery measured 8.31v
One hour later is was 8.29v
Eight hours later it was still 8.29v
You expert thought would be appreciated!
Best wishes from the UK!
Jason Lee wrote:
I think it’s rather impossible to do a partial discharge on Apple’s mobile devices. The iPad
is equipped with three batteries, the MacBooks are equipped with six. But I’m not sure if
they dishcarge one after the other or all together.
James Bond, Jnr wrote:
How about lithium ion battery safety? Hundreds, perhaps thousands of handheld and
laptop devices have been burnt out by lithium ion battery fires.The Chevrolet Volt lithium
ion battery caught fire several times. The Boeing 787 Dreamliner lithium ion battery caught
fire several times. A submarine and several aircraft have been written off by lithium ion
battery fires.
Dick Lawrence wrote:
Jason Lee, your iPad has its batteries wired in series. The voltage powering the device is
the sum of the 3 batteries’ voltages, e.g. around 12V. They all discharge together. The
MacBook probably has 2 parallel strings of 3 batteries but (like the iPad) they still all
discharge together.
James B. - take a look at lithium-iron-phosphate (LiFePO4) battery technology and the
abuse these take in order to be certified safe (to meet UN safety requirements) - I found a
description of these tests on this site. They include pounding a steel spike through the
battery. They still don’t overheat or start fires. Very tough technology and very long cycle
life. I built a bicycle headlight / tail light system with them and they’re working great after 2
years. - DL
Dick L
You are reciting the sales blurb. I took the lithium ion battery fire information from news
reports. The airlines that bought the 787 don’t want to fly them until the problem is fixed.
James: different technology. LiFePO4 is the variant that was the basis for the late great
A123 Systems battery company, who were anxiously working to get into the electric car
industry in a big way, before they went down and were acquired by a Chinese company
(not sure it’s a done deal yet). BatterySpace.com sells LiFePO4 batteries by the way. Did
you even look at the U.N. qualification test reports? It’s not marketing sales literature.
Plain old Lithium-Ion is more prone to overheat and risk starting a fire, as the unhappy
folks at Apple know. If you have information linking the 787 issues to LiFePO4 technology
please let us know, with corroborating links supplied.
Dick
I believe Boeing would only have used the best of the best lithium ion technology Yet it
failed. Lithium ion battery technology is inclined to burn. You seem to be digressing.
Pier Luigi wrote:

I´ve been talked that to improve/increase the lifespan of out batteries, it is quite
recommended to run discharging cycles every 6 months. Could anyone advice me about
it?
I was serching on Internet for a Battery Discharger and i found out the item below:
http://www.amperis.com/en/products/misc/battery-dischargers/
I looking forward to hearing from your. Thank you very much for your collaboration.
Martin Rosen wrote:
Would this product be of any use? http://www.mightydeals.co.uk/deals/national/Gadgets-

Gifts/Power-Bank-Recharger-/4033?
lsid=550200030&campaign=Affiliate_Window&utm_source=Affiliate_Window&utm_medium=Af
Pier, the Battery Discharger you link to is mostly for testing batteries not for recommended
maintenance or improving the battery.
The benefits of discharging a battery depends on the battery type (chemistry). For lead-
acid battery, deep discharge is BAD for the battery and will shorten its lifetime. For nickel-
cadmium some people recommend occasional full-discharge and the re-charge, citing the
“memory effect” of nickel-cadmium chemistry - I think your question may be about nickel-
cadmium. Other people claim the “memory effect” is a myth. You will find good
information on this battery-university site, it is a very good source of info on batteries of all
kinds.
Lithium-ion, like lead-acid, does not benefit from deep discharge - you will get longer life
from lithium-ion chemistry by only discharging to 25-30% and re-charging to 80-90% -
storing it at full charge (100%) for a long time is also not good - which is the topic of this
forum, actually. There are some good articles and graphs here that explain it. - DL

James, I strongly doubt Boeing used LiFePO4 technology - it’s relatively new and the 787
was in design for many years. They are conservative about bringing in new technology
especially where safety is concerned - even though LiFePO4 would have been a better
choice, in retrospect.
Go to http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4cellspacks.aspx and then click on “Knowledge

on LiFePO4 battery”. Look at the “Needle Test” - this is where they pound a steel spike
right through the battery, causing a dead short through all its layers. Also the short-circuit
voltage vs. temp test - the battery gets hot but does not burn, outgas, or explode. This is a
nasty test but LiFePO4 does it more safely than traditional Li-ion as the presentation
makes clear.
If you have evidence Boeing specified LiFePO4 for their batteries, please provide it here.
- DL
John Fetter wrote:
Lead-acid automobile batteries are purpose designed to deliver very high currents briefly.
They do not cycle very well. Most people are familiar with this type and mistakenly
assume this type represents lead-acid technology.
Lead-acid motive power batteries, in contrast, are purpose designed for cycling and, dollar
for dollar, will outperform every other chemistry when used on deep discharge cycling
duty.
Dick
I believe you introduced LiFePO4 into the discussion. There is obviously a difference
between a battery that powers a handheld drill, small enough to have a steel spike driven
through it with impunity, and a very large battery, powerful enough to start one of the
largest turbofan jet engines currently in use.
Jason Lee wrote:
Thanks, Dick. That was a very helpful post. +1 for you.

Silentcon wrote:
What level should i keep the battery? 30%-80% or 40%-90% ?
Brad P wrote:
Seems like a lot of people more expert than me here.
I just bought an expensive Li-ion powered car (no gas, only battery powered). The
batteries were manufactured by a leading global manufacturer. The car was delivered to
me with the batteries in sleep mode, in which state it had been for at least a week,
probably two, possibly longer. I believe the batteries discharged to 2.6% of their
recommended full charge, sleep mode kicking in at about 5-6% of full charge. I am being
told orally by the car company that there has been no damage to the car’s battery (about
half the value of the car), and that there is no chance of any copper shunts having
developed, and that the car could have continued to sleep for another 4 months until any
damage would occur. After owning and charging it for a month, I see what looks like 25%
more daily idle battery discharge from my battery than others are experiencing. Should I
believe them and not press any claim?
Greg Zeng wrote:
So many comments, so could you add the last date of the original, so that we can avoid
reading old comments?
In case not covered:
1) Battery charger sometimes “breaks” e.g. inbuilt charger of mobile devices, especially if
subject to heat, dust, vibration & fluids (including humidity). Most comon in old mobile
phones.
2) Electrical contact deterioration, as in the first point, but between battery, charger or the
device, or combination of all of these. Repaired by cleaning & stopping vibration.
3) Premature aging (battery and/ or charger). Statistical bad “luck” of factory production,
especially after ageing, heat, moisture, vibration effects.
Fin wrote:
Thanks for the good advice. I have a question if the laptop battery runs out very quickly (3-
4 min), this means that it is already broken, and yet somehow you can recalibrate it, fix it?
Avi wrote:
Samsung Galaxy Note II has a 3100mAH Li-ion battery. Some Internet sites suggest
charging the battery when it reaches 10%, while other sites suggest connecting the
charger when it reaches 50% - any ideas which might be correct?
Thanks!
KU wrote:
Does anyone know the improvement in the # of cycles if the charge discharge is 0.5C
instead of 1C
Great news! Boeing sorted out their lithium ion battery problem. They seemed to have
brushed the engineers aside, proudly brought in a team of legal-minded johnnies, who
proceeded to tell everyone they had known about the problem since 2008, just did not use
that solution because the paperwork was out of sequence.
Alan wrote:
@Avi: If you read the article above, you will see a Depth of Discharge (DoD) table with the
following information:
100% DoD ==> 300 – 500
50% DoD ==> 1,200 – 1,500
Fudging the numbers in the table, you can get:
90% DoD ==> 480 - 700
80% DoD ==> 560 - 900
And so on. Based on that, I suggest you do not let your battery drop lower than 30%. In
addition, if possible do not charge your battery to 100%.
Not such great news. Same lithium ion battery manufacturer, batteries fitted to Mitsubishi
electric cars. Caught fire, at least one car totally destroyed. Simple problem + organization
with vested interests + facility to hide behind lawyers = next to zero problem solving
capacity.
On May 21, 2013 at 10:15pm
tOM wrote:
For desktop UPS use in a laptop, you probably want to maximise your battery years by
charging only to 3.92v, which corresponds to 50% charge.
For portable use, you just want to recharge to 50% if it gives you enuff life, or whatever
level does give you enough life.
Ideally, a battery management program would allow several charging targets:

- MAX portable runtime (ie, 100%)
- UPS use (eg, as desktop computer or low-usage phone days) (3.92v or 50%)
- several steps in between MAX and UPS for flexibility.
My Dell 5720 laptop has a “desktop usage” charging scheme which keeps the charge
between 70 & 80%
Martin Rosen wrote:
I have just bought an iPad. When is the optimum time to charge it up?
John Gurski wrote:

I just purchased a cell phone and was wondering if I purchased a replacement battery but
never charged it keeping as a spare would this be possible or do Lithium Ion batteries
degrade with non use. The phone is an off brand and I am worried when the original
batteries loses storage capacity I may not be able to find a replacement.
Thanks for your great informative website.
Many Li-ion batteries will hold charge and maintain their performance for a decade or
more. If you’ve read everything on this forum you should have enough info to keep your
spare battery good for many years. I would summarize it as: keep the battery in a cool
place, charge it once, discharge it to 40-50% charge, and then leave it alone until you need
it. - DL
On June 13, 2013 at 1:48pm
Steve Mullis wrote:
I am using a Nikon Coolpix 8700 camera. The camera came with a 7.4v 700 mAh battery. I
need replacement batteries. I see batteries advertised at anywhere from 700 -1500 mAh. I
was told that due to the physical size of the battery it cannot be manufactured with
greater than 800 mAh. I understand how to prolong the battery life (I suppose it wouldn’t
hurt to put them into a refrigerator or surround them with a cold blue ice back). Is the
information I received correct (re: mAh) or should I attempt to purchase a battery with the
highest possible rating?
On June 28, 2013 at 11:07am
Alex wrote:
The study shows that 10% and 25% depth of discharge was not as good as 50% (table 2)
but would have liked to see the 75% and 90% depth of discharge data as those would be
more practical options. That is noone is going to regularly recharge battery at 90% charge
or even 75% charge. It would be useful to know whether to target a recharge at 50% or
would recharging at 25% charge or 10% charge be even better or substantially worse?
Alex
On July 19, 2013 at 6:47am
Derek wrote:
I must say the Galaxy S3 battery must be leaps and bounds ahead of the information here
and on wikipedia.
I have discharged my battery below 5% about 10 times in the first 3 weeks and let it run to
0% twice. I have now taken steps to charge the battery at about 30%. However, the battery
monitor pro app currently estimates it’s capacity as 2143mah so doesn’t seem to have
affected it.
The spare battery (official GS3 accessories pack) has only lost 4% power after 1.5 months
of storage time starting on 100%.
What I’d like more information about is table 3 because I dislike what is being said there
and the numbers look suspicious relative to the words. Surely the battery does not lose
20% of its maximum capacity permanently after 3 months if it is sitting at 100% and 25
degrees? I mean if the spare GS3 battery only lost 4% temporarily (ie. can be recovered via
charging), surely it has not lost 15% permanently in just 1.5 months.
If this statement was true then spare batteries can only ever have 40% of the original
maximum capacity if stored at 100% for a year.
Alvin wrote:
To: Walt Borntrager

Your statement about lithium ion memory has been backed up by some research.
http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html
“Here we report a memory effect in LiFePO4—one of the materials used for the positive
electrode in Li-ion batteries—that appears already after only one cycle of partial charge
and discharge”
It doesn’t say it’s ruined, but it “remembers” a partial charge….after one cycle.
Drew wrote:
I have seen that most Li-ion are charged to 3.7V. I have an application which requires 3.9-
4V. Would anybody supply me a battery and charger charged to 3.9V-4V?
Fred Johnston wrote:
I recently purchased 6 Li-Ion batteries for our 2 Samsung Galaxy Note 2 Phablets, and the
batteries only get 50-75% of what the OEM 3100mAh batteries that came with the phone,
yet they rate their batteries at 3500mAh. I complained, and they told me to fully charge
and discharge 5-6 times as this would improve the capacity. This will take me a long time
to cycle through all of my batteries in this fashion. Are they BSing me or can this be
true???
Also, if possibility of being true (from what I’m reading here, that should not be the case) is
there a good way to discharge them faster (eg rig up something with a resistor so I don’t
need to run my phone through all of these exercises??
john h wrote:
There are some free Aps you can get which will discharge the batteries for you, so I would
recommend doing that instead of the science lab version; although you can certainly
connect them to a resistor and discharge manually.
My own opinion is that whoever sold you these is blowing smoke to stall you and prevent
you from asking for a refund. I have heard mixed opinions both here and other places
about the validity of exercising a lithium battery, but the technique suggested to you
sounds more like a NiCad strategy to me. I can’t find the link right now, but there is a guy
who has a pretty good blog dedicated to reviewing the various replacement batteries out
there. Maybe you can do a search and locate it. He has found that many, many of them
are lying about the actual capacity of the cells. So what you have may be a decent quality
battery, but it does not have the claimed capacity.
Fred Johnston wrote:
Thanks John… sort of what I’m thinking too (blowing smoke and delay tactic). I do have,
and have used, a fast discharger, but they chew up the phone and still make it unavailable
for hours, and really heat it up… so I’m looking for a “kinder” way (as my previous Galaxy
S2 died and I think part may be to trying this in the past to many batteries)... it is a LOT
harder on the phone than the batteries! If you happen to be able to locate that blog, what
would be helpful (but only if easy for you to find)... many thanks!... good site, this one.
john h wrote:
Fred-
I think this is the site: http://www.batteryreview.info/ I purchased 2 of the Gorilla Gadgets
high capacity for the Galaxy S3. I hated running from charger to charger. Now I have one in
the phone, which averages about 3 days with my usage, and I carry the other charged one
and simply change out. I don’t ever use the charger that connects to the phone-just a cube-
style charger that plugs in to the wall; leave it overnight, and then take it with me. I have
concluded that the whole idea of obtaining maximum life and output is not as relevant as
reliability and consistency- realistically nobody keeps devices that long any more. I
probably throw away devices that have better batteries in them than what I was getting
brand new 10 years ago.
I love this site, I wish there was a more active discussion forum. There are a lot of smart
people who visit here.
Rupesh wrote:
I have a question - I see lot of experts here, I would be thankfull if someone can answer
this question.
I am using a Mobile Device Sony Xperia Tipo inside the Bus and it has to be kept
permanently charged as we are using its Bluetooth capability.
Will there be any safety problem related to this use, I would be using it 24x7 and the
mobile would always be connected to the charger.
Please assist with your valuable feedback/comments/suggestion
Rupesh
Vaib wrote:
I went through this article its true. being an electronics Engineer . it is well known that
charging and discharging are Properties of a battery. but I had experienced I used my
laptop hp mostly on AC . I still even after 50 months m getting 35 minutes battery back up
. My ColleaguE s use their laptop on charging and disparaging process their batteries dies
in just around 30months so s prefer to use it on ac but must be aware of heating
phenomena . I tired it on my Samsung smart phone too it is giving back same when I
buyed it 1 year ago. . . so nothing harm on using your li battery until it heats up . . thanks
for this superb analysis . . .
Martin Rosen wrote:
I have recently bought an iPad. I would like someone to tell me how to keep it in optimum
performance, in particular the battery.
Thanks.
Rahul wrote:
I still dont understand why any of the people above still hav’nt understood what the author
means be a cycle. If DOD is 10% (100% to 90%) it constitute only 0.1 cycle and not 1 full
cycle. So only by doing that 10 times will make a cycle. So total energy produced during
the battery’s lifetime will be 100 times compared to 100% DOD. I hope atleast some of you
are able to understand this now.
john h wrote:
From a pure engineering perspective, your point is taken. However, many of the people
here are seeking practical ways to extend the life of their batteries. The extreme example
is if you never discharge the battery, it should last forever. Not only is this untrue, it also
completely defeats the purpose of having a portable device in the first place. I believe the
misunderstanding may lie in the definition of a cycle; even the author points out that there
is disagreement among experts. How many of us have had the experience of “taking care
of “ a battery by keeping it constantly charged only to discover the capacity of the battery
has diminished rapidly anyway? I think there are other factors that may override the basics
of DOD and total number of cycles. In one of these articles the author points out that the
worst thing you can do to your battery is to use it while you are charging, yet that is what
most of us are constantly doing with a cell phone; It gets low on charge, and you still need
to use it, so you plug it in and continue your conversation. The author suggests that this
induces many tiny cycles of charge/discharge, in turn creating lots of heat, which might
account for the shortened battery life over time.
John wrote:
My Samsung NC10 netbook when new ran on battery for 4 hours and 20 minutes. After
three and a half years it still gave 3 hours and 30 minutes on battery. Hardly ever used on
charger. The BatteryBar app showed 28% wear after around 1500 charge cycles. Is this
battery exceptional?
Marc wrote:
This article sais: Environmental conditions, and not cycling alone, are a key ingredient to
longevity, and the worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated
temperatures. This is the case when running a laptop off the power grid. Under these
conditions, a battery will typically last for about two years, whether cycled or not.
But what’s worse, running your laptop of the power grid (thus having a fully charged
bettery) or stop charing when it’s at 80%, drain it to 30-40% and charge again?
I’m asking because in when you run it of the grid, the battery becomes warm whilst being
full. When not running of the power grid, you’re causing another cycle, and it only has a
limited amount of cycles. What’s the ‘least’ bad for my battery?
hasanat wrote:
informativesite. I like this.
Sachin wrote:
I bought a tab with lithium polymer battery one part of the article stated charging it to
lower voltage will extend battery life.. is it good to charge at 75% or 80% I can compromise
with battery run time but cannot with its lifespan..
I have battery vehicle too and any suggestions are appreciated..

highks wrote:
Very good to know that keeping LiIon batteries at full charge is actually not a good idea. I
always thought, keep them all as full as possible to storage… but now I know I’d rather not
do that anymore.
I also didn’t know that higher temperatures are that bad for LiIon batteries - and I always
wondered why notebook batteries die relatively quickly coompared to other batteries, like
in camcorders.
It really is a shame that no notebook manufacturer has a 50% charge option. It would still
be good enough to use as a ups in case of a power outage, but the battery could last for 5
years or even more. But when you look at the prices for original spare batteries, I guess
that is why they won’t do it. Rather make some dough on spare batteries every two years…
Dr Jack wrote:
A modest genius.
Abhishek Gupta wrote:
Nice Tips! Look, you must Dim your screen – Most laptops come with the ability to dim
your laptop screen. Some even come with ways to modify CPU and cooling performance.
Cut them down to the lowest level you can tolerate to squeeze out some extra battery
juice.http://www.stensly.com/2013/12/how-to-extend-battery-life-of-your-laptop.html
Niraj wrote:
I have a ASUS laptop and it’s advertised battery backup time is ~ 3-4 hours. However I
have got more than 9 hours of battery backup. No I am not kidding. This was when I used
my laptop somewhat sparingly and did this on purpose to find out the maximum battery
backup.
My settings -
1. Display is always 0, the lowest brightness possible. The background is full black,
screensaver is full black, browser background is full black. In general in every software if it
is possible to have total pitch black background I go for it. Actually it looks very sleek and
you may not recognize it is the same as your usual softwares. I do it primarily yo save my
eyes [oh yes, i love my eyes more that the environment] but it also prolongs battery life.
2. when running on battery, my processor is underclocked to 60%.
3. my laptop is set to switch the display off after 1 minute. the laptop itself never sleeps or
hibernates. i dont like to wait for my machine to switch on if i resume my work. the HDD is
put to sleep after 20 minutes of inactivity.
4. my laptop is NEVER switched off. this one is about 6 months old and I have switched it
off for more than an hour only 3-4 times. Moreover it is permanently connected to the AC
power. so far my laptop has run on battery (for more than a couple of hours) only twice in
the last six months.
the result is that my battery is almost as good as new. any battery shows strength decay
only after about 100 discharge cycles. mine has been to only (maximum) five discharge
cycles and I intend to keep it that way. no wonder I get such a long backup.
Bruno wrote:
I have a new Asus s400 ultrabook. It has a built-in battery so removal is not an option. I
have read that partial discharges are the best for longevity of the battery. So my question
is do I use the laptop on battery till it drops to about 70% battery life and then plug in and
top it up. Do I use this method unless I need to be away from ac power.?I want to do the
best for the battery. Thanks
James Johnson wrote:
Yes, partial discharge is better than full discharge, but also partial charge (meaning - not
fully charging the battery) is better than full charge. Keeping the battery always at full
charge and especially plugged on a charger for long time will shorten it’s life.
http://j.gs/3HYu
Jason Seibel wrote:

For my new laptop, I want to maximize its battery capacity so that when i have a big trip, i
can make the most out of a full charge. Based on this article i am wondering which of
these two methods would work best (unless i am wrong either way).
1. I keep battery between 40 and 70 percent charge all the time. My reasoning is that I
want to keep the voltage per cell low by not charging it too high, and I want to make the
depth of discharge as low as possible since i will be using it at home and will always have
a charger available.
2. Keep battery between 20 and 50 percent. - same logic, but I think keeping the voltage
even lower by not charging my laptop above 50 percent will also help improve battery life.
——-
I am also wondering if even doing a cycle between 20 and 80 percent charge would be
significant enough to increase battery life. I have an Acer V7 - 482PG-6629
David Smith wrote:
Great article and a lot of good info in the discussion.
While I know next to nothing compared to a lot here I just had to jump in wth my thoughts.
When you consider the cost versus the lifetime of these packs they are not that expensive,
baby them and get say 12 months against using them without worrying about longevity,
but not abusing them, and getting 9 months, say you pay $60 for the battery, thats $5 a
month babying against $6.66 a month without worrying, is all the fuss worth $1.66 a
month ?
I use 16650 3000mah batteries in high powered modded led flashlights, they are always
fully charged when not in use, often have 3A or 4A load on them, never taken below 2.8 v
although sometimes taken to 3v, the lights get hot, the battery compartment sometimes
getting to 50c or so, is this abuse, you bet, will it shorten there lifespan, yes, but I am
prepared to put up with it to follow this hobby, what I am getting at is sometimes you just
have to do what you have to do, and if that means discharging the batteries until you
laptop tells you they are flat, then just accept you have shortened the life of the battery a
tiny little bit and move on.
I am in no way putting down anyone here, treat them nice and they last longer, of special
interest to myself was not leaving a laptop pack out of the laptop for more than about a
month, my wife has two packs and she just leaves one pack out fully charged until she
needs it, not now she won’t

Cheers David
riot wrote:
hi
should i remove my hp625 battery while gaming or watching movies, the indicator says
not charging when the battery reaches its full condition and i heard that if you remove
battery it will cause damage to laptop while in serius actions that need some extra power
and actually the battery can work as an back up power to save hardwares
mehdi wrote:
Hi, I purchased a laptop computer with embedded battery (the battery can’t be removed)
and I’m wondering if I need to calibrate the battery or not? The seller told me that it is
needed and I have to discharge and charge it 3 times in order to be calibrated (I do it once
till now).
Another issue: do you recommend keeping the battery charge in 40% or it’s not necessary?
My laptop computer will turn off by 7% of battery charge (my experience of first
discharge). I use my laptop most of the time at home. Which strategy best maintain my
battery health?
My laptop name: Sony VAIO Fit 15 SVF15A18CX
Battery Type : Standard Lithium Ion Battery (VGP-BPS34 3650mAh)
Battery Life : Up to 3 hours and 45 minutes10
Thanks.
Riot wrote:
Hi Mehdy
As the battery can not be removed never let it go below 80% or gradualy it will get old, you
use it at home right? so why not plugged in while in home
Everyone knows that battery killers are charge and discharge plus heat live happy
homie
Mehdi wrote:
Thank You for responding. As I understand the heat produced by keeping the battery in full
charge condition is less harmful for battery health than charging and discharging of the li-
ion battery each time?
Riot wrote:
My hp625 battery never gather heat because it is full charged and conected to the wall
socket, do not place the machine on carpet, clothes or such stuff that cover fan holes.
off course discharging ages the battery
Neil wrote:
great resource, thanks for all the info
have a quick question, if any gurus have an opinion it would be greatly appreciated
just got a Levono Z710 ideapad and it came with “Energy Manager” software that has a
conservation mode. from what the software says, it is intended to be used if you’re not
going to be using the laptop for a week or longer, to keep the battery at a state of charge
of 55% - 60% to avoid battery life reduction due to long periods of full charge state.
when i turn it on and use the laptop, the battery charges to: 60% available (plugged in, not
charging)
so my question is, would this not be the best way to use my laptop while at home and AC
is available (95% of the time), and turn conservation mode off and fully charge the laptop
when I’m actually taking it somewhere AC is not available?
Riot wrote:
You doing office work or watching movies surfing net, better detach the battery but if you
doing games or other heavy grahic duties attach the batt and turn of all conservative
modes and let the machine flows..
On March 24, 2014 at 12:30am
Youngjae Cho wrote:
Hi.
I wonder DOD 30% voltage.
About 4.2V full charged voltage battery, 3.9V is DOD30%, right?
Edward wrote:
Dear Youngjae Cho ,different Lithium battery from different company have different
performance.. we need test the discharge curve to get the answer
more details please contact zzrm316@163.com
On May 9, 2014 at 3:06pm
Brian wrote:
It souds as if the best bet is to use an old battery that holds 50-70% charge for home use,
when plugged into the mains. This will protect you from power outages etc, Then put in
your nice new 100% chargeable battery when travelling and you need to be working
umplugged.
On May 12, 2014 at 9:57am
brad wrote:
What is the source for Table 2?
On May 15, 2014 at 11:11am
Migisha wrote:
gotta say,
best. lesson. ever!
Many happy returns to you from the 256
On June 1, 2014 at 10:53pm

yuri provase wrote:
Looking for table number 3, can I say that the best way to use your batteries is discharge
them normally (80/85%) and then charge them back just a few hours before using them
again?
On June 30, 2014 at 1:03am
Khayyam Akhtar wrote:
I have a smartphone with li-ion battery. It’s Sony Xperia SP and it has built-in battery. First it
was great but then because of that useless battery doctor task killing app, one night I left
my mobile with 22% charge left and tomorrow when I woke up, it was 0%.
Since then I feel like my mobile battery is not good. My habit is to charge mobile when it is
below 15% and I never plug it out until its 100%. Last night at 4am I left it on stand by with
72% and today in the morning it was below 58%. There was only one message and the
notification light was turned off in the settings.
What should I do?
On June 30, 2014 at 2:01am
Khayyam Akhtar wrote:
Another thing is that it drains power mostly in stand by. When I listen to walkman, watch
videos or work on wifi, it works like before and only little charge is used mostly 2%-7% is
used.
On June 30, 2014 at 2:43am
Edward wrote:
Dear Khayyam, how long do you keep this smartphone?? two years or three years? please
email to me zzrm316@163.com Edward rechargeable boy
On June 30, 2014 at 4:55am
Oscar Ormond wrote:
Khayyam
Step 1: Check if the thing is properly plugged in and check if the power is actually on.
Mohamed Soheb wrote:
what should be the amount(percentage) of charging/discharging the battery to increase

its life.
Edward wrote:
95% charging/discharge the battery can increase its life
Mohamed Soheb wrote:
thanks Edward,
and what should be the minimum amount to which we are suppose to drain battery to
prolong its life
Edward wrote:
Dear Mohamed , no minimum amount requirement, for example, 10% discharge is not
equal to one full discharge, and 10 times 10% discharge is equal to one full discharge.
please email to me zzrm316@163.com for detail information Edward
dialus wrote:
It is good post and informative post.Thank you.
On July 7, 2014 at 10:59am
Smurlin wrote:
Really great info in this article - much appreciated.
On July 16, 2014 at 11:56am

Shun wrote:
Fascinating, the underlying principle I found from reading this article is do not go to the
extremes and stay balanced, reduce stress, prolong the life and avoid high temperature.
Applicable to many other aspects of life.
Mark Paulo Yan wrote:
I’ve read the article mostly and searched the page for “usb”, for related info. I did not,
however read all the comments, which are quite a lot.
Now my concern is that to my undertanding Li-ion batteries charge well in the 3.9 to 4.2
Voltz range, whilst usb ports have a 5V rating, which is way higher than the recomended
4.2V.
Does newer/current (2014) devices have voltages regulating circuits?
Or does current Li-ion batteries operate on 5V?
Or are we mangling our batteries using current common charging ways?
Jack G wrote:
Looking for some clarity regarding the tests on Depth of Discharge (DoD). Is the voltage
level 0.0V at 0% DoD? If so, perhaps a more realistic test would be discharging to a typical
device’s cutoff voltage (say, 2.5V).
Edward wrote:
mark paulo yan—the output voltage from USB is 5.0V ,and the lithium-ion max voltage is
4.2V, this because there is overcharge circuit in the lithium-ion battery to prevent from
overing 4.2V. to charge the battery, the output voltage must higher than the battery max
voltage. is that clear
Kenelm Ulric Dogcio wrote:

Okay, so im trying if someone can answer my question (by reading the comments from
above. yes from 2010 comments) and still i was not able to get any answer.
My question is. What is the ideal charging percentage for my 2110mAh Li-Poly battery
(From a smartphone, nondetachable) Is it discharing to 25% and charging to 90%? Or 10%
to 80%/90%? Thank you in advanced for answering.
Edward wrote:
Dear Kenelm Ulric Dogcio , I advise the better way is 10%—90%
Kenelm Ulric Dogcio wrote:
Thank you for answering edward. Also, i’ve observed that everytime i charge i use DU
Battery APP and when it charges for like 40mins or so, the voltage im seeing is above
4.20. And its advisable to have lower than 4.20 right? What should i about it? Or is the app
accurate?
Rich wrote:
I just bought an iPod classic after the discontinuation, and I already have a working one,
so I just want to store this one until its needed.
How long is it ok to just leave it in the box? I read once that you’re not supposed to let a
battery sit with no charge in it, and the date on the iPod box says 2009, meaning this thing
almost definitely has no charge right? Should I start it on charge cycles or just leave it in
the box?
Edward wrote:
Dear Rich, If the Ipod battery is not used for a long period, it should be replenish charging
one time for every six month. zzrm316@163.com
Feanor wrote:
I assume that the number of charge cycles in the table above are complete charge-
discharge cycles?
So, for a 10% depth of discharge, the battery should last for 4700 FULL recharge cycles -
not 4700 recharge cycles of just 10%?
Edward wrote:
Dear Feanor, full charge and discharge cycles can not to 4700 cycles
Luca wrote:
Is it worse for a lithium polymer battery (phone or laptop) to be charged while the device is
on?
I would think yes, but I am not sure.
Quantum PC Support wrote:
These type of posts are forever. Battery saving tricks are always welcome. We often ignore
basic things and we have to repent for those. Follow the video
http://vimeo.com/65740042
Feanor wrote:
Hi Edward - I don’t understand your response. I’m not sure I was clear myself though.
My question is, whether the 4700 figure means a) 4700 charge cycles from 90% to 100%,
or b) whether it means 1 charge cycle = 10 cycles from 90% to 100%, in which case the
battery would last 47 000 charge cycles from 90% to 100%.
Both seem unlikely to me; a) would provide no increase in battery cycle life, which goes
against what’s been said, while b) seems excessive but meets the definition given of one
charge cycle being 0-100%.
Feanor wrote:
Luca - no; you’re better to use the device while it’s being charged, as this reduces battery
use and wear. With one caveat though - you shouldn’t leave the device on charge all the
time; normal use for a portable device is to disconnect it for at least a few hours a day
when you move it around, so I generally stick to that. Just use it normally, but avoid excess
charging or excess use (unless your usage pattern requires excess use, then use it - it’s a
tool, after all!).
Edward wrote:
Feanor, the 4700 figure means a) 4700 charge cycles from 90% to 100%, if you charge
from 90% to 100% and then discharge from 100% to 90% you can use 4700 cycles.. yes
the a no increase the total discharge time in theory, but in fact , you can hard to control the
0% to 100% charge and discharge, discharge to 0% maybe means over-discharge. anyway,
it is a battery ,do not too worry about the cycle life. just use it
Luca wrote:
Thanks Feanor & Edwad,
I am really glad to learn so much here!
Feanor wrote:
Thanks Edward. I don’t think that the article is clear on this point though. Cycle is at one
point (if not here, then elsewhere) defined as 0-100%, and the article goes on about how
reducing depth of discharge (DoD) will increase cycle count. But if we’re counting a cycle
as charging from any DoD to 100% then it achieves nothing and all the discussion about
DoD us pointless.
Most consumers don’t need to worry about over-discharge as the equipment (mobile
phone, laptop, etc) will prevent that unless they store their batteries for weeks or months
at 0%.
ali mufit cetingul wrote:
comple condition chamber test solar battery
Anup Chapain wrote:
Why should we users bother on these details?? Don’t you think its wisest move to
implement the optimum cut-off circuit in the laptop itself by the manufacturers in order to
maximize the battery life?
pankaj wrote:
Simple question:
How much time battery(2080mAH) take for fully charged?
charger:5.0v=550mA (50/50Hz 0.2A)
Morteza wrote:
Pankaj,
Simple answer: 2 hr
akash wrote:
This piece of information helped me a lot.I used to charge my tablet at 7v/cell but now I
know that I should charge It at only 4.20v/cell.Thanks a lot.
Vaughn Hartsell wrote:
I’m still confused as to when and how much to charge my battery in my MacBook Pro. Is
there no simple answer?
(1) Charge it 4 hours every day (2) only charge it when it dies and stops functioning.
(3) Keep the charger on all the time. (4) Never worry about it. (5) Use it plugged in until the
battery dies! (6) See why I’m still confused.
bilalorignal wrote:
i am using my laptop with li ion battery 6 cell for almost 3 years and its battery power is as
good as new what i do is always plug in my laptop in trust worthy power source like UPS
(urgent power supply) and keep using it on it and take out my battery hence i am saving
my battery charge cycles that the secret
JC wrote:
I have a 4400mAh Li-Ion laptop battery from Batteries Plus. It is model: RAYCL2809B, it is
made by Rayovac.
This battery works well but only as long as I do not allow it to fully discharge. If it fully
discharges, then the charger is not able to recharge the battery. I have tested the charger
with my friend’s battery (he has the same laptop but with the original battery) and it works
just fine. The guys at BatteriesPlus also tested the charger and said it was fine.
Anyway, whenever the battery fully discharges, I have to take the battery back to
BatteriesPlus and they hook it up to a machine for like 8 hours in order to revive it.
Anyone know why this happens to the battery? It is quite annoying that I have to keep
going back to the store to get this rayovac battery revived.
Anyone have a method to revive the battery at home?
Raphael wrote:
i agree! where is the short simple answer? what i’ve understood is this and i’m not even
sure its correct.
you buy a new laptop… after turning on discharge to 10%, recharge fully to 100%
form there on… discharge to no further then 40%, recharge no further than 80%
once a month… discharge to 10% and then recharge to 100%. repeat cycle!
Could anyone please confirm this? Great info and all but jeeeez! can there not be a more
concise version for people that actually want to play with their new toy, like, today without
the stress of damaging it?
Richard Coleman wrote:
Question: In table 2, the cycles and DoD relationship seem to imply that 50% discharge is
ideal. Reasoning is that for e.g., 50% DoD, you must charge twice as many times as 100%,
therefore to make the two operating schemes comparable, you must divide the apparent
cycle life by two, i.e., you really got the equivalent number of 675 full cycles. If you adjust
the data in this way, the graph seems to peak at about 50% (I fit a 2nd order polynomial to
the adjusted cycles. I’m still reading this article ... so there may be something I missed.
Glad to discuss, please email me with contact information if possible. I have an MS in
Operations Research and a BS in Naval Engineering, so I’m not just flailing here ... but I
may be wrong.
On March 19, 2015 at 12:05am
ikenna wrote:
Is there any stand alone appliance that can be used to protect a battery from exceeding a
50%DoD for gel batteries?
On March 28, 2015 at 10:43am
Rob Chandler wrote:
I was about to post my reasoning that based on Table 2 it would appear that charging at
50% DoD is the sweet spot. Then I saw that Richard Coleman had reached a similar
conclusion.
What I found interesting is that frequent recharging when DoD is at 10% appears to be
almost as bad as waiting until the battery is fully discharged.
Thanks
On March 29, 2015 at 11:13am
peter wrote:
There is sentence:
The shorter the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last.”
In table 2 they said if 10%DoD then 3750 cycles. We know that one cycle in this case is
10x10DoD.
Maybe we should charge battery more often than 50%DoD.
Peter Baillie wrote:
I wondering if anyone could recommend where you could buy a Battery Management
System (BMS) for a 36v electric bike battery which can be plugged into the battery for
diagnostics; to read recharge cycles, kms distances etc. Your article and discussions on
DoD is interesting, to work out the number of DoD vs kms travelled and to try and work out
the lifecycle capacity left on a battery and the kms remaining to be run. Thanks Peter
Baillie
John Fetter wrote:
Peter - There are so many variables in batteries and battery usage, it is impossible to
achieve with any reasonable degree of accuracy, what you say you want to do. Having said
that, there are such systems on the market, because demand, not technology, drives these
kinds of things.
Battery purchasers look for the lowest possible price. Hence battery manufacturers are
obliged to manufacture to the lowest acceptable standards. Batteries are a grudge buy.
There is nothing that can be made that cannot be made by another more cheaply. This has
been the driving force over the last 40 years in an industry that is 130 years old. The only
place you can find quality is on the sales brochures. Hence some batteries will last eight
years, some will last four years, some will last two years.
Peter Baillie wrote:
John, thanks for the feedback, appreciated. Would you have any recommendation on
where to buy one? Or even a shop that deals in this kind of thing? Peter
peter wrote:
i think edward is wrong: 10-90% charging/discharging is not the best way to prolong
battery life.
Also i think feanor is wrong: using device while charging is not good for battery life coz
battery is making a lot of micro cycles and wearing battery.
Alice wrote:
peter, Why? Without any explanation your comments are worthless.
On May 1, 2015 at 5:34am
peter wrote:
It is obvious like 1+1, i dont wannt to be smartass but please, read this article(s), see the
tables…
- best is charging @ 50%DoD
- best is charging while device is turned Off
“A device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the
threshold voltage unhindered and reach a low saturation current when full. A parasitic load
confuses the charger.”
batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
On May 1, 2015 at 7:37am
Alice wrote:
peter, The reason why most people pay good money is to use what you disparagingly call
the parasitic load, as and when they want. “Look ma, my battery lasted ten years. I
achieved this by hardly ever using the computer.” It is as easy as 1+1 for a charger to
“read” the battery, look after the battery, and at the same time deliver power separately to
the rest of the system.
On May 1, 2015 at 11:14am
peter wrote:
information and advice about turning of device while charging is from this site. And we are
discussing it very precisely what are the facts from theory and how is it in practise.
also, please give us info and any valid link about delivering power separately to the rest of
the system while charging li-ion battery.
thanx
On May 1, 2015 at 4:29pm
Alice wrote:
peter, You accused two people of being wrong. It is easy to drag information from a
source. Anyone can do it. Means nothing. Opinions vary. Can you explain why these two
people are wrong?
On May 2, 2015 at 12:28am
peter wrote:
Everything is in my post, there is no need to repeat it again.
But you didnt explain “delivering power separately”.. Explain? Link? Pdf?
Please be constructive as others are.
On May 2, 2015 at 5:34am
Shelagh Delves-Broughton wrote:
I apologize if this has been asked or answered but if one using a laptop, as a desktop
should take out the battery, store it safely but use it once every 2 weeks or so, what do you
do if the laptop wont allow you to take out the battery and you use it as a desktop?
T.I.A.
On May 2, 2015 at 5:53am
Alice wrote:
peter, You said they were wrong, gave an opinion, did not explain, were not constructive.
Lithium ion, like all batteries should be charged at constant current, up to a suitable preset
voltage. Impossible with computer directly in parallel with battery, computer drawing
variable current. Simple solution, in common use by circuit designers who understand
batteries. Feed computer directly and feed battery via simple current sensor. The current
sensor output is compared to a reference value. The difference between the two is used to
correct any error in the current and can maintain an exact charging current value. The end-
of-charge voltage can be preset to optimized values that will terminate charging a desired
state-of-charge.
On May 3, 2015 at 11:25am
peter wrote:
ok, now you are talking. thanx for informations, means a lot to community.
Need to ask: does it apply to smartphones as for laptops you said?
On May 3, 2015 at 6:52pm
Edward wrote:
I think Alice is right ,She must be the professional battery expert or electronic expert!!
On May 14, 2015 at 8:32am
Ty wrote:
I’ve read this article and others and have scanned all comments here and read many. But I
still haven’t found a recommendation or what seems to be a simple and obvious question.
maybe it’s above and I missed it.
Here’s the question.
My laptop is always connected to the power grid except when I travel. However I do move
it between my office and my deck and don’t want the hassle of shutting down between
those moves so my battery remains in my laptop at all times.
I saw the recommendation in the article to let it discharge only to 50% before recharging.
At least I think that’s what I read.
My questions is, how often should I let it discharge at all? Once a day? Once a week?
Once a month?
Thanks in advance for any knowledgeable answers.
On May 17, 2015 at 4:01am
Amith wrote:
After reading through this article, I went and did some measurements on some of the
phones I own. I basically did a full charge, waited for about 5 minutes, pulled out the
battery and measured with my multimeter.
On a Samsung Galaxy Note 3, it seems to go upto about 4.3 V. On a Lenovo A606, It goes
to about 4.21 while on my old Nokia 1110, it seems to stop at 3.8 V.
I also did a comparison of actual voltage measurements against the readings I get from
battery apps. They’re pretty close ( ~ +- 0.01V) and also require a certain ‘settling’
time.before the readings stabilize.
I guess it’s a trend here that modern phones tax the battery a lot. So, it’s no surprise that
they lose quite a lot of the capacity within the first year of usage. Maybe the best approach
is to only charge our phones to about 75% or so and stop.
On May 25, 2015 at 2:03pm
voyance internet wrote:
Your article is very well written, which are much less appreciated is that I once again thank
you.
MARTIN wrote:
So they are arguing that if you charge your battery at a higher level of discharge, the phone
will have a higher cycle life.
WELL DUH. if you divide the 10% DOD by 10 you actually only get 470 total cycles out of
each 100% that it drained. Which it actually below the maximum suggested charge cycles
for charging at 100%DOD.
Now if you look at the 50% DOD cycles and calculate the cycle it gets per 100% then you
will get 750 max. So is it suggesting we charge our phones at 50% ? LOL wtf is this non
sense
it may reduce the possbiility to temperture wear to the battery however, charging for
shorter period of times
Alice wrote:
MARTIN, Can you explain how one might charge at a higher level of discharge? You
probably don’t want to acknowledge that people with less knowledge compensate by
making more rude noise.
TTMartin (not MARTIN) wrote:
@Alice
Referring to Table 2
Table 3.
Good data in the article, but, poor interpretation of the data by the author.
to discharge till the device tells me it needs to be recharged, and then recharging it at that
time.
On June 1, 2015 at 11:40pm

Alice wrote:
MARTIN ? ... The electrochemistry that relates cycling to DoD in batteries is not linear. The
only way to obtain that information is by hands-on testing.
peter wrote:
@TT Martin:
We need to clea what is 1 discharge cycle?
(Ans:
1 dis.cycle = 4 x 25%DoD = 2 x 50%DoD…etc..)
Amith wrote:
I think you’re confusing charge levels with depth-of-discharge. 50%DoD just means
the capacity level to which you would discharge your battery below the ‘original’ capacity.
For e.g. Say a battery has a capacity of 10,000 mAh. Discharging it to 5,000
mAh(50% charge) is 50% DoD, so is discharging from 7,500 mAh (75% charge) to 2,500
mAh (25% charge).
The author isn’t being contradictory, don’t fully charge it (maybe charge to 75%
Charge) and don’t discharge it completely before recharging (75% to 25% charge, i.e. 50%
DoD).
On June 15, 2015 at 7:22am
Andy wrote:
From all the information I’ve gathered over time, this is what I really recommend:
Remove your Li-Ion battery if you don’t need portability or are not doing anything important
on your device (if you don’t need backup power in case of a power outage).
This prevents ambient temperature and heat from the device from degrading your battery
much much faster than as it would be on the shelf. Just run the device directly from the
charger if it allows.
If you want to take it a step further or for longer-term storage, you can tape the terminal of
the battery with electrical tape (to prevent accidental conduction and short circuits) and
store it in a sealed ziplock bag inside your fridge (to prevent moisture). NOT YOUR
FREEZER. The idea is to keep it just above freezing temperature but not to freeze your
battery. 5 degrees Celsius is a good temperature.
As for charging and typical usage or If you have a hard-to-remove internal battery, try to
keep your battery level from 30% to 80%, hence charging only 50% of the battery at a time.
In other words, not too low and not too high battery capacity and not too short and not too
long charging cycles. By doing this, you also follow the 50%DoD in this article that appears
to statistically give the most hours of use for a Lit-Ion battery.
On a side note, when you buy a new battery, the first 3-4 charge cycles are very likely going
to give you a lower total capacity than what the battery is capable of, but this should be
amended after about 10 cycles. I don’t recommend fully discharging and charging your
batteries for these first few times to “prime” your battery, just use it normally unless your
battery percentage meter is inaccurate and needs to be calibrated then do a full cycle.
On June 15, 2015 at 7:48am
Andy wrote:
Adding to what I missed above:
When you are planning to store your batteries, charge the battery between 45% and 65% to
compensate for gradual discharging and depending on how long you plan to store your
batteries for.
Make sure you take them out once in a while (every month, few months or so) to check
they still have charge in them and charge them back up to storage capacity if they are too
low.
It goes without saying that you don’t store a battery with 15% or less battery or you could
risk it going into “sleep mode” or being too weak/damaged to charge.
On June 15, 2015 at 9:31am
Alice wrote:
Andy, Brilliant idea! Or is it? Have you not worked out that your suggestion is more or less
the same as buying an expensive automobile, locking it up in the garage and using buses
and trains for transport instead? Much, much later, there is a emergency and you need the
car in a hurry. And guess what? You have a flat battery, flat tires and find the rats made
their nests out of the bits and pieces that used to make the car go.
On June 19, 2015 at 2:09am
Andy wrote:
Alice, this is only recommended as a measure if you don’t need portability or are not doing
anything important on your device that needs a backup power supply. And like any car
owner, they should take the inactive car out once a month to ensure the battery doesn’t
completely go dead.
With OEM laptop battery replacement packs at times costing an arm and a leg and
manufacturer customer service being so poor in general, it’s only an ideal suggestion and
does not represent what the typical user must do. We all make sacrifices to the detriment
of the battery and that’s okay because it is meant to be used.
But I have to admit at the very least, removing your battery while plugged in is a smart
thing to do. In my experience with laptops, especially high performance aluminum or full-
bodied metallic laptops heat up considerably, and the heat conducts to the battery along
with heat from charging combine to easily equal 50-60c. An excellent example would be
the first few generations of HP Envy laptops notoriously known for heat and cooking the
battery.
Under heavy use while plugged in with the battery fully charged, these batteries typically
did not last more than a little over a year without holding any useful amount of charge and
most definitely needed replacing soon after.
On June 19, 2015 at 2:42am
Alice wrote:
Andy, If removing the battery is the smart thing to do, then perhaps a woman could provide
an optimum solution. A plug-in extension cord arrangement that would have the battery
out of the oppressively hot laptop and at the same time fulfilling it primary function.
(By the way, taking a car that is very infrequently used, for a run once a month is a battery
killer.)
To sum up, lithium is a SERIOUSLY problematic technology.
On June 19, 2015 at 3:28am
Andy wrote:
You are definitely right in this regard that it is problematic but it is not limited to lithium.
Batteries are an inherently weak technology that struggles to keep up to the demands of
the power consumption in wake of constantly evolving technology.
Lithium technology is already considered a mature battery technology and almost at

capacity of what it can be capable of and further advancements are slow and progress is
minimal until we can switch to another type of battery.
For your typical lead-acid car battery, taking an inactive car out once in a while is actually
beneficial for its health since when a lead acid battery is partially discharged, lead sulfate
forms. This sulfation causes a permanent loss of capacity of the battery. So the batteries
should only be stored in a fully charged condition and the charge should be topped up
from time to time by taking the car out to charge it with the alternator to compensate for
the self discharge of the cells.
On June 19, 2015 at 4:39am
John Fetter wrote:
Andy - I am not going to join this discussion about lithium ion but I think I might be able to
throw some light on the lead-acid situation. A lead-acid battery that isn’t receiving any
charge for a month, and is probably being drained slowly by the electronics in the car, will
likely have been reduced to between 60 and 80% state of charge. Starting an engine that
has been standing takes more out of the battery. The alternator voltage regulator will limit
the charging voltage to a maximum of 14.4 volts. It is impossible to bring a 12V lead-acid
battery that has been subjected to this form of treatment to a full state of charge with a
normal average trip. The battery begins the next month of inactivity in a partial state of
charge. Each successive month will deprive the battery of charge. After a few months of
this kind of treatment the battery will give up the ghost.
There are trickle chargers on the market that begin charging the battery until the voltage
has risen to well beyond 14.4 and then drop the voltage to about 13.5 and hold it there.
Batteries thus maintained last eight years or more.
On June 21, 2015 at 11:53am
Sally G wrote:
Interesting… I have an e-bike with a lithium battery. After commuter cycling on it for 27
months (year round), it’s still as good as when I got it (actually, better since getting a new
console which seems to be more efficient at extracting energy from the battery). I only
discharge it 50-75% per trip before recharging (50% in summer, 75% in winter - cold
weather does seem to consume more energy out of the battery). So from above, this
battery should last a goof 5-7 years - far more than the 1 year the manufacture’s warranty!
However, I do hear of people who don’t use their ebikes having problematic batteries from
the get go - which would make sense as the charge does dissipate with time if I don’t ride
it (usually within a month) so I presume that that would be equal to a full discharge. Must
be said not having trickle charge on the charger also doesn’t help - if I put the plug in on
Friday and don’t pull it out to Monday, I’ve lost 20% of my charge!
On June 28, 2015 at 6:51am
Tom Wiersma wrote:
We are very disappointed in the lithium ion life we experienced on two different bike
batteries. While initial life produced a range up to 20 miles on our 24 volt emoto bikes,
that range degraded to 1 mile after 2 years on the first bike, and the second bike is now at
8 mile maximum after 22 months and degrading rapidly. The bikes are stored indoors with
periodic charging in winter and are recharged after each use in summer. The factory that
made the batteries is out of business, and a rebuild costs $300 a piece. We have $1200
total in the two bikes new. The first sat around Menards till I purchased it for $400. It
short life lead us to believe shelf life was a factor. On the second bike we had to wait for
the factory to produce the batter! Same results. Could have been worse. It could have
been a $35,000 lithium ion car!
On July 19, 2015 at 4:39am
Timar wrote:
The dispute whether to keep the battery permanently attached to the notebook, thereby
providing flexibility and protection against power outages, or to store it half charged,
thereby greatly improving the battery’s lifespan, can easily be resolved if one has a fresh
and a worn down battery. I simply leave the old battery, which is below 10% capacity but
still holds more than sufficient power for finishing some tasks and providing hibernation
power, permanantly connected to the notebook and keep the new battery tucked away
after charging it to 60%. If I plan to use my notebook on battery, it suffices to connect the
battery to the computer for one hour in order to charge it to 95%, but even if I don’t have
the time to top it up, it still provides at least 50% capacity and a decent runtime.
Rudy Rash wrote:
Do the comments and suggestions of this article also apply to AGM (acid glass mat) and
SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries used in UPS’s (uninterruptible power supplies) or those
used in power wheel chairs?
guest wrote:
i charge my battery when it is 1% 2 % and charge up to 5% 6% and use it because i need. i
do it maybe 5 times every day for months. it is no problem for me now.
corky wrote:
I just wanted to know the shelf life, like can I buy two batteries, use one, save the other? or
will the unused one get old? I spent wanna read a physics paper
Bayu Murti wrote:
Actually I’m little bit confused with that DoD theory.

Given that 100% lasts a day, if we apply 100% DoD, then we’ll get 300-500 charging cycles,
means 300-500 days. If we apply 10% DoD, we’ll det 3750-4700 charging cycles, but we
also need to charge our phone 10 times a day, means we’ll get only 375-470 days. Where
is the differences?
Michal wrote:
@Bayu Murti: Well the thing is that one charging cycle is defined for whole capacity of
battery, that means if you discharge your battery to 50 %DoD and then fully charge it two
times - it is count as one charge cycle. Theoretically discharging to 10% of DoD in your
case can be done 10 times and that is count as one charge cycle.
peter wrote:
The practical sweet spot seems to be 4.1v and dont top up if you don’t have to. After 500-
1000 full charges, you will be sick of the battery, given improved cells over time.
Given that, perhaps out batteries ought be say 26v or 38v etc., and our chargers set to
charge .1v lower.to give a net 24 or 36v.
The article concurs with what I hear from cruising yachties. Keep them between 20 and
80% charge, and they last forever.
I also hear flattening the battery isnt so bad. Its storing them flat that’s the problem. Put a
flat battery on charge immediately you get home and its tolerable practice.
kpr wrote:
Hi, I would like to know whether a Li-ion battery in a laptop if leaked due to exposure to
heat, will it discharge acid / will the discharge from the battery be acidic and corrosive
such that it damages the motherboard or chips.
Thanks
Regards,
KPR
Lilith wrote:
Hello,
I sell batteries in Holland to customers and the most asked question is why the battery
needs to be 40% charged for storage. Every resaler tell this to their customers, but this
bulletin gaves me the best oppertunity.
Storage is best at 3.92 volt 58% SoC. I appreciated it that this bulletin gave me the best
answer. Also for my electric bike is this the best SoC to maintain capacity at a prolonged
period.
Thanks BU and Cadex for this usefull information. I like that.

[my English is not so good, sorry]
MIKE wrote:
PLS my hp laptop battery even when fully charge will not power on my laptop or any other
laptop unless made active by just charging it for few seconds(sometimes 3sec), and its
last for 3hours when fully charged. what can i do to stop this?
Marcin wrote:
I use my laptop mostly at home. Does it mean it’s optimal to keep the charger plugged in
all the time (since the more shallow the discharge, the better - so by extrapolation, the
most shallow discharge - no discharge, would be the best)
naima wrote:
I am having a problem with the battery life of my Samsung galaxy pro tablet.
It`s not charging while I am using you tube although the sign of charging is showing it is
charging but the percentage of charge keeps decreasing.
but if I stop using the tablets it gets charged.
please can you help me solve this problem because if I am watching a film I can`t just stop
it and carry on watching it few hours later.
kindest regards.
Naima
plymjack wrote:
All (nearly) very useful (especially Alice).

I have a lot of experience with large lead-acid batteries (from Submarines) but most does
not translate here to Li-on. I am just getting a BMW i3 (without backup generator) and am
keen to maximise life and range.
The car comes with monitoring but no voltage information so I will look for a way to see
this. Range is around 120Km, but expect to be used for around 320-40km a day. Will
follow the guidance above and on charge when down to 50% (where possible).
If anyone has an i3 info or advice I would like to hear it. thanks.
Jordan wrote:
Great write up BUT I still don’t know if a new phone battery needs to be fully charged from
the beginning or not. If its not fully charged then will the memory and life of the battery be
affected (diminished)? These are points I would have appreciated knowing about at the
beginning of the article rather than slogging through rheams of data (which I appreciate)
but honestly do not have time to read through
shoaib wrote:
There is obviously a lot to know about this. I think you made some good points in Features
also. Keep working, great job!recipe
Clive Skeggs wrote:
Many articles are written about charging Li-on batteries, but I am surprised nobody seems
to have come up with a method of safeguarding against over discharge. When I used to
condition Ni-cad batteries, I built a recycler which used relays to automatically cut off the
charging and discharging cycles. This was so simple, after finding suitable relays that
would release the holding coil when the voltage dropped below the desired level. This
should be even easier with Li-on batteries, seeing that their voltage is much easier to
match with a 6 or 12 volt relay.
Does anyone have any smarter methods of easily controlling the usable voltage level? It
needs to be dead simple so that each separate battery could be protected, i.e. Using 4 ex
laptop Li-on cells in a 12v drill battery case.
Ishara wrote:
I have a galaxy note 4 mobile…

I didn’t understand about the correct battery percentage to plug my mobile in to the
charger and correct percentage to discharge it from charger.
can you please tell me the best healthy percentages.
Clive Skeggs wrote:

Amy standard commercial battery operated device would have these safety features built
in and can be seen as miniature circuit boards when disassembling a battery pack. What I
am referring to in my previous note was the use of just the actual cells from for example s
laptop or similar type of battery pack. These Li-ion cells would not normally be protected
from either overcharge or over discharge when used for other purposes than originally
designed for.
I have purchased a Nitecore D4 battery charger (recommended) which will ensure the
proper charging cycle but am still missing a suitable discharge protection.
sarath samarajeewa wrote:
Very useful article
Herschel Specter wrote:
How much of the 7kw-hr Powerwall can one discharge before significantly limiting the
battery’s number of cycles?
Thank you
Clive Skeggs wrote:
I would recommend reading the following article, lots of interesting facts which will
probably answer your question about the 7KW Powerwall batteries.
http://www.catalyticengineering.com/top-ten-facts-about-teslas-350kwh-powerwall-
battery/
karthik wrote:
Hey guys. Is it okay to leave the laptop plugged in. I pretty much use it as a desktop.
Means its almost always connected to the AC power and runs 15 hrs daily. I have limited
the charge level to 50% and leave it plugged it. And once in a while when there’s a power
cut i let the battery discharge to 7% ( which is the default setting it came with before it
would ask to to connect to a power source) And Once in a few months i discharge it down
to 7% and then charge it up all the way to 100%. and then remove the battery and leave it
out for 6-12 hrs before i put it back on my laptop and then discharge it down to 50% and
leave it plugged in. as mentioned earlier.
So is it okay to do the above routine? Is it really okay to leave it plugged in at 50% almost
all the time.?
Arnfinn wrote:
Hi. Thank you for this informative page. I dont understand the table 4; many car
manufactors like Tesla and Kia let the car charge the battery cells to about 4,3V. Wouldent
this destroy the EV battery within about 2 years?
Best regards Arnfinn
Michael Kusch wrote:
Very informative page.

I remember many years ago when electric cars were in dipers (late 90’s?), reading an
article that to maximize life, they would only have the battery charged up to 60% and
discharged down to 40%, but I don’t remember which chemistry they were using at that
time. Rest assured that electri car maker are making everyting to prolong battery life
without the user having to watch for battery voltages. The most they will let you do is
select between “optimize for runtime” and “optimize for battery life”.
I bought my Dell Laptop with the extended battery on Dic 2010. The original capacity was
about 9.8Ah. The battery has been used and abused. I’ve had it stay at maximum charge
for ages, I’ve it cycle from 7% to 100% constantly, I even have had it shutting down due to
overheating several times. After 6 years it still holds more tha than 6.8 Ah. Runtime has
gone down from about 3.5 hours to about 2.2 hours. I’ve never seen another notebook
battery last as long as this one. My wife’s notebook is not quite as old and is already on its
third battery.
I’ve a questionabout that doubling of lifetime for each 0.1/V lower top voltage. Say you
have a battery with an original 1000mAh capacity. If I lower the charging voltage to 4.1 its
starting capacity should be around 840mAh. Now for the lifetime calculation, what is the
end of life capacity used? Is it 70% of 1000mAh or 70% of 840mAh? In my opinion,
“doubling” the lifetime should mean doubling the time it takes for the battery to drop down
to 700mAh of usable capacity.
However I’ve seen (on other cources) that they use 70% of the “new” starting capacity, as
for 3.9V the starting capacity is already far below 70% but they claim a 8x cycle life.
To me this is nonsense, because at 4.1V, 19% “new” capacity loss is already below
700mAh (81% of 86% is below 70%).
It also means that supposing a linear loss of capacity (for clarity), it is only by the time a
4.2V charged battery reaches 750mAh capacity that it would have less capacity than a
4.1V charged battery which would have fallen to 752mAh. This also means that for the
first 83% of the charging cycles, a 4.2V charging voltage would have provided more
capacity than a 4.1V charging voltage.
@Tom Wiersma:
Electric bike batteries are normally made up of LiFePO4 lithium ion cells. The advantage is
that you can put them in series to directly replace lead-acid batteries, and charge them
with standard lead-acid battery chargers. The rapid loss of capacity in these battery packs
is however due to a completely unrelated factor: cell unbalance. Unless you use a
balancing charger, little differences in internal resistance between cells will keep growing
the unbalancing problem. The charger stops charging when the most charged cell is at
maximum voltaje, and protection circuitry within the battery pack or the bike will stop
discharging when the lower cell is at its cutoff voltage.
Balance charge your battery pack and it will probably go back up to nearly 20 miles again.
Life cycle in LiFePO4 are much higher than other lithium chemistries, about 1000-2000
cycles.
palemoon wrote:
I have a Toshiba Satellite L50-A-161 with a Li-ion battery. The removal of my Toshiba
battery is quite complicated: it is necessary to open the case unscrewing 14 screws and
remove the dvd unit. The battery itself is fixed to the motherboard with 4 screws and a pin
connector.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG0lW7t92bI
This kind of notebook was plainly designed to prevent the user from removing the battery.
Knowing this, my main concern is that I need to use my notebook for a prolonged period
of time, many hours a day, often from morning to night, and I rarely need the battery as a
source of power, working in places where the AC power is always available. To some
extent I mainly use the battery as an AC filter.
With this in mind, I am wondering what practice suits me best: keep the laptop connected
to the AC grid and calibrate the battery once a month with occasional partial
discharges/charges would be safe?
You wrote that “Most users do not remove the AC power, and this practice is safe”, but of
course this goes against the “Partial charge better than a full charge” guidance rule:
keeping the laptop connected to the AC grid would keep the battery always at 100%
charge.
Neville Walters wrote:
the charger for my lithium battery (for my golf cart) has a red light when charging and
green when fully charged. it was supplied with the battery.
it is now showing the green light, but not charging.
the battery is usually never run down completely, nor charged fully. it has had about 170
of these cycles, i.e. about twice per week.
the make is ULTRA MAX, bought from AMAZON.
I don’t know much about batteries and would be grateful for your expert advice
sakthivel wrote:
For a LI-ion battery , what is the operating voltage range.(100% means = what is the
voltage range and for 0% = what is the voltage )
Kibber wrote:
@sakthivel: There’s a multitude of different li-ion battery chemistries, each with different
maximum and minimum voltages, ranging from 2.5-1.5v for LTO (Lithium Titanate) all the
way to Li-CoO2-NMC with 4.35-3.0v. Electric vehicles often use a combination of two or
more different chemistries, to achieve both high-current and high-capacity benefits.
Modern cellphones typically have 4.35v as their 100% voltage and go down to about 3.4v
as 0% (which is probably more of a phone’s electronics limitation than a battery limitation
per se). Numbers cited in this article are probably for the original implementations of
Lithium Cobalt Oxide (LiCoO2), which goes from 4.2v to 3.0v. Whether the same
suggestions for prolonging battery life apply to other chemistries is a question I don’t
know the answer to, but if I had to guess, I’d say they probably do.
On April 25, 2016 at 12:17am
Axel wrote:
i`v got newly launched Galaxy S7 with Li-Ion battery. It`s habit for me to charge to 100%
even when i had another phones with Li-Poly i`v did same… but this one is expensive piece
of glass so i`m wondering about that… Apple done some trick to preserve cycling, i believe
samsung would`v done same but…
how safe is to charge my battery from 25-30% to 100%, will this decrease lifespan a lot?
and what is recommended range of charging for S7`s kind of battery?
Thanks in advanced
On May 1, 2016 at 10:57am
ted wrote:
Question on using Li-ion battery for industry use as back-up battery.
If the battery is just charge up and sit there without discharging it, it is used for backup in-
case of power outage.
How long will the battery life last? Longer or shorter life than applying the discharge
method?
So, base on this article, if we keep the voltage at about 3.92, it should prolong the battery
life. Correct?
Ted
On May 6, 2016 at 6:24am
Wowlaulau wrote:
Anyone here noticed that this comment thread has been active since 2010? That is crazy.
But even crazier is the subject of the article that has racked up idk how many actual
comments but for sure approximately 6 years worth And they’re all about BATTERIES! I
WTF! DERP/DURP from back in 2010, if you’re out there,feel ya.
On May 13, 2016 at 8:04am
Curious wrote:
1) Can someone give more info about Bayu’s question and Michal’s response?
2) Ideally, to what DoD should I let my cell phone drain to before I charge it again to 100%?
3) Is keeping my cell phone plugged in after it’s been charged to 100% a good practice,
both from the standpoint of extending battery lifetime and safety? (I’m extrapolating to
cell phone batteries the paragraph stating that unplugging laptop batteries from AC grid is
unnecessary and keeping it plugged in is safe).
Thanks!

Bayu Murti wrote:
Actually I’m little bit confused with that DoD theory.
Given that 100% lasts a day, if we apply 100% DoD, then we’ll get 300-500 charging cycles,
means 300-500 days. If we apply 10% DoD, we’ll det 3750-4700 charging cycles, but we
also need to charge our phone 10 times a day, means we’ll get only 375-470 days. Where
is the differences?

Michal wrote:
@Bayu Murti: Well the thing is that one charging cycle is defined for whole capacity of
battery, that means if you discharge your battery to 50 %DoD and then fully charge it two
times - it is count as one charge cycle. Theoretically discharging to 10% of DoD in your
case can be done 10 times and that is count as one charge cycle.
On May 19, 2016 at 8:10am
Mohammad Hoque wrote:
It is clear from the figure that relation between charging cycle and capacity is linear for a
specific charging/discharging rate. Now I am confused here how the measurements are
done. Say battery capacity is 1500mAh and after few charging cycles with
charging/discharging at 1C, they capacity is 1400mAh. 1C is equivalent to 1500 mA. Now
since the capacity is reduced 1C is not equivalent 1500 mA anymore. Do the above
measurements should be interpreted accordingly? Any reference is appreciated.
Patrick wrote:
This article seems to be from 2010. Motorola now uses “IMPRES” chargers on their
portable radios with Li-Ion batteries to condition the batteries every so often by fully
cycling them (full discharge followed by full charge). I’m guessing Li-Ion battery research
has changed the way we treat Li-Ion batteries in the last 6 years?
Mara wrote:
I’m traveling to a country with frequent power outages and changes in power supply. I am
worried that the variation and peaks in power will damage the battery of my laptop. How
can I avoid this? I already use a surge protector but I think this only works in case of
extreme peaks, right?
Thanks!!
Michael wrote:
Patrick,
First of all, IMPRES batteries come in different flavours: NiCd, NiMH, Li-Ion.
http://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radio-
accessories/batteries/impres.html
Contrary to NiCd and NiMH, there is no such “conditioning” needed for the Li-Ion batteries
nor does it present any advantage to the battery capacity.
For Li-Ion, all that it really does is recalibrate the battery “fuel gauge”, which is an IC
embedded in the battery pack that tracks battery capactiy. Usually this is accomplished
with a “coulomb counter” which tracks the amount of current that has been
charged/discharged from the battery.
The “propietary algorithms” refer to the use of voltage and temperature measurements
(and impedance tracking algorithms) in addition to the coulomb counter to more
accurately predict battery total and current capacity.
This is also the real reason cell phone and battery manufacturers still tell you to let the
battery charge completely before the first use. It’s not for conditioning like the old NiCd
and NiMH batteries, but to let the battery fuel gauge be properly calibrated.
On June 10, 2016 at 1:47pm
DickLawrence wrote:
=>Mara If you have a typical charger it will work at any voltage from 90V (Japan) to 240V
(much of Europe) so it will ride through voltage sags and spikes OK. A surge protector will
make it more resilient to voltage spikes.
On June 13, 2016 at 12:36pm
Patrick wrote:
So all the IMPRES charger is doing with the Li-Ion batteries is recalibrating the fuel gauge?
It sure does take a long time when it conditions.
On June 13, 2016 at 3:16pm
Michael wrote:
Patrick,
The battery has to be fully drained and then fully charged. The time it will take depends on:
1) Current charge % of battery.
2) Maximum discharge current of both the charger and the battery
3) Maximum charge current of both the carger and the battery
4) Battery capacity.
Plus, for calibration purposes, it might discharge/charge at a lower rate, or at a higher rate
to test for temperature dependency, and it might do the full discharge/charge cycle more
than once.
On June 14, 2016 at 5:55am
Kad wrote:
I don’t get one thing (don’t laugh, I’m as far from understanding physics as one can) I don’t
get. How come, that almost all smartphone chargers (verified randomly 3 at home) have
an output of 5V and 1.0A, while my battery clearly states, “Limited Charge Voltage 4.35V,?
The charger only reach peak voltage when fully charging the battery?
On June 23, 2016 at 5:20pm
alex wrote:
I’d like to use a couple of 18650 batties in a small hobby kit with a small solar panel that
will always remain on and transmitting data. What would increase battery longevity most?
1) Using a charge controller and a 5V solar panel - thus fully charging the batteries each
sunny day
2) Using no charge controller and a 4V solar panel - thus never fully charging the batteries
and having my voltage float up and down each day (never a complete cycle)
Naturally both would need over discharge protection. I guess the question is whether to
use a TP4056 with 5V solar or just go with 4V solar and no TP4056
On June 30, 2016 at 5:34am
vale wrote:
The article and comments are really helpfull but i’m having trouble concluding how to care
for my battery…
I just bought an ASUS X555LJ with not-removable LiPoly battery and i’d like to extend as
possible it’s battery lifespan (as is the firs thing that declined of my previous, adorable, 5
year old Toshiba Satellite, all from misuse).
Long story short, what exactly should I do:

a) Never let it go under 40% or over 70%//40%-80%//20%-80%// 50%-80%
b) Keep it between 70% and 90-95%?
c) keep it always plugged when possible (i understand not)
On July 15, 2016 at 12:54am
Tarun Jhamb wrote:
What is the mathematical relation between No. of Charge Cycle and Life time estimation
of Li ion Battery?
e.g. for NiMH batery
Lt = Lt (New) if C<=300 charge cycle
{1.3 - 0.001C} . Lt(New ) if C>300 charge cycle
I want this kind of relation for Li ion Battery.
On July 15, 2016 at 5:58pm
Jorge Feitosa wrote:
Hi,
I got all day researching for the better strategy to take care of my laptop batery and I have
some questions to make, if anyone can answer it would be good:
1 - Can I remove my battery for 3 hours and then put it back without any damage to the
same? I work all day at home and my laptop keeps plugged all day on AC charge
2 - If I remove my battery should I put inside something to protect more? Like put inside a
drawer?
3 - Before remove my battery, do I need to charge him between 40%~70%?
On July 23, 2016 at 3:28pm
Alex wrote:
1. You don’t need to remove the battery, because it doesn’t charge when full. Keep an eye
on temperature - the most evil for batteries. If you play games, better to do this without
battery. But if you use notebook for taping, and frequently move between room, houses -
leave it in case. It is designed to be used, not stored )
2. No need to put it in a freezer or something - battery degrades by itself. After 3-4 years it
will loose half of life.
3. Yes, charge it to 75% level, because internal schematics draw energy. Li-ion element by
itself has very low self-discharge rate, but not charging scheme. After half of year it will
discharge to lowest level, and even can die. So charge it sometimes, if you desided to
store it (again - no point in doing this)
On July 25, 2016 at 4:22pm
Michael wrote:
@Kad:
The smartphone chargers don’t charge the smartphones battery, that job is done by the
smartphone.
The chargers output 5V because that is the USB standard (actually it allows for 4.75 to
5.25V).
The smartphone is the one that limits both battery charging current and voltage.
If the charger says 1.0A, that is the maximum current it is designed to deliver, but that
doesn’t mean the smartphone will send that much to the battery.
@Alex:
First of all, a bare solar panel will deliver a voltage that is dependant on both the amount
of solar radiation hitting it AND the amount of current being consumed by the load. If there
is no load or a very little load, you can get 50% higher voltage, meaning under no
circumstances are you to connect a solar panel directly to a lithium battery. If the battery
is full and there is still solar light, it will continue to charge the batterty.
To get the longest life cycle, do as the article says and lower the maximum charge voltage
and increase the llow voltage cut-off voltage. There are chips that will let you program
both voltages, or use fixed voltage parts accordingly.
Or you can switch to LiFePO4 chemistry if your circuit can handle the lower voltages.
Spuffler wrote:
In early 2015, I purchased a Novatel T1114 WiFi hot spot with Voice router (Verizon), it
uses a Lith-ion cell for operating the voice telephone segment during power outages. I
used the device normally for about 5 months, then, knowing it would be put into
temperature controlled storage while I relocated, I disconnected the Lith-ion cell from the
T114 so as to minimize self discharge. When I disconnected it, the battery should have
been as near to 100% charge as the T1114’s internal charge circuit could have done.
A year after putting the T1114 into that temperature controlled storage, I put it all back
together (correctly) and fired it up.
No joy, the T1114 declares ‘no battery’ and immediately shuts down. I’ll have to get a
voltmeter to test the cell, but I’m guessing that during storage, the cell somehow self
discharged to zero volts, despite being disconnected from the T1114 (there is a third wire
coming from the cell package, probably a thermal circuit uses the battery and outputs
temperature data on the third wire).
I’m also guessing that the T1114 charge controller is not a well fleshed out design, being
incapable of recovering this cell from this state of discharge. Note that the T1114 uses the
battery for times when AC power has failed; in my neck of the woods, AC power goes out
for several days at a stretch about every 18 months or so.
This further indicates that the designer of the charge cicuit should have reasonably
expected the cell to completely discharge. Sigh. I miss working in power conversion
design development. I would have had the designers head for missing this condition.
The cell is made by Palladium Energy, no obvious results on Google.
Oh well, at least it has a class designation of ICR19/66, and thus it might be available off
the shelf. Maybe that online battery retailer….
Would love to jump charge it with a different battery pack for a few seconds, in hopes of
getting the terminal voltage high enough that the T1114 stops treating it as ‘no battery’;
I’m thinking that if there was voltage at the packs terminals, the T1114 might resume
operation and also resume charging the battery. Otherwise, until the T1114 recognizes a
battery, it will refuse to boot, it will shut down, and ... for want of a nail, the kingdom was
lost, so to speak.
John Fetter wrote:
Battery charger designers generally have only limited knowledge about battery technology,
and design chargers according to their beliefs and assumptions. They are inclined to be
overconfident and arrogant about their technical prowess, assuming batteries to be
electrochemical devices in need of rescue and assistance by electronics experts.
me wrote:
THAT IS WHY
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT
THAT BATTERY IS 100% REMOVABLE
“DONT BUY BATTERY THAT IS NOT 100% REMOVABLE.”
David S wrote:
Thank you for the excellent information.

It would be useful to see an article about the effect of high charge rates on battery life.
Nwodo Chidi wrote:
Thanks for the information! I used a laptop 12 cells of each 1200mAh, 3.7v to build power
bank.The cells were stalked in parallel. I charged it with a laptop charged output of 19.5v,
3.33A. I monitor it to avoid over charging. Sir, my question is this is there any ‘gauge’ or IC
that I can add to the charger to shot down current entering the battery to avoid the same
over charging when the battery is full. Moreover, circuit is needed? I am an amateur in this
filed. Please I need a solution. Thank you once again!
Gale wrote:
I recently purchase chainsaw that uses 80 volt and 40 volt lithium batteries need any and
all help in regards to keeping these usable
Tina wrote:
I have just bought a “Powerguard Notebook protector chargeall” which the salesman
insisted prolongs the life of a battery for iphone, tablet, laptop etc. He was very persuasive
and assured me that charging any of these devices using this device which seems to be
some sort of surge protector would virtually double the life of the batteries. I haven’t
opened the packaging yet but have read through as much as I could of the very helpful
information on this site but cannot see any mention of these supposedly marvellous
inventions. Can anyone enlighten me please. Have I been had? Or will this little
intermediary between device and power source really extend the battery life? Thanks in
advance..
Chad wrote:
I continue to be confused by the author’s DoD table, even after reading many of the related
comments above.
Does the depth of discharge refer to how much of the battery’s capacity is used up, or to
the absolute charge level?
In other words, what is the depth of discharge when I go from 75% charge to 25% charge?
Is it 50% or 25%?
In the same article it says that the ideal charge voltage is 3.92V, representing a capacity of
58%. So does that mean we should be cycling our batteries between 58% and 50%? It can’t
be right to recommend that we only use 8% of the battery’s design capacity.
Historically I have got excellent life from my laptop and iPhone batteries when cycling
between about 75%–80% and 20%–25%. But should I instead be cycling between 90% and
40%? Or something else?
Also, I assume that when Table 2 gives 1,200–1,500 cycles for a 50% DoD, that isn’t full
cycles but just number of charges, right? I.e, if one cycle is defined as one discharge and
recharge of the entire capacity of the battery (or, say, using 50% of the capacity twice),
then I assume the correct way to interpret table 2 is that you get 300–500 full cycles with
a 100% DoD, but 600–750 full cycles with a 50% DoD, right?
Chad wrote:
One follow-up question to my questions above: When Table 2 refers to a depth of

discharge of 100%, what voltage level is that? We know from this article that “full” is
something like 4.2V or 4.35V. But what is “empty”? Is it the 3.0V at which some equipment
shuts down? Is it the 2.5V–2.7V at which the battery permanently goes to sleep?
Something else?
I noted last night that just before my iPhone powered down the voltage was 3.5V. At that
voltage the indicator was reporting 1% capacity. So is 3.5V a 99% DoD? I doubt it. Perhaps
some device manufacturers are preventing deep discharges, so the advice to not
discharge too far may need to be taken with a grain of salt if you’re using a device that has
already taken this into account.
Finally, it would be good to know which is most damaging: Full charges or full discharges
(and here I don’t mean full discharges below 3.0V; I mean full discharges as reported by a
piece of consumer electronics). I expect it’s full charges. But there is insufficient
information here to know whether it’s better to cycle a phone or a laptop from 90% to 40%,
or from 80% to 30%, or something else. (And it’s further complicated by the fact that “30%”
as reported by the device may not actually be a 70% DoD (see my comment above about
the voltage at which your device reports 0%).
Feaver wrote:
Can anyone please please answer the most asked but never really answered question
here?
“a) Shall I keep my laptop/smartphone (in my case surface pro 4, so taking battery out is
not possible) plugged in while I’m for example at home/office or b) is it better to prolong
battery life by using it until XX%? and charge it again to YY%?”
If b) please also tell us the XX and YY percentages.
Thanks a lot!

sachit koirala wrote:
my old smartphones lithium ion battery takes 24 hrs to charge fully and in some case
charge remains constant.what should i do please advise.will it explode
Bruce Campbell wrote:
The article seems to explain matters exceptionally well to me. But highly effective
communication is a terribly daunting challenge - even excellent composition can partially
fail to convey information well, especially when complicated subjects are involved. I’m not
a student of energy cell (battery) technology, so please don’t confuse me with an expert.
But the article seems quite clear to me, so the following is an effort to express some key
points in an alternative way in the hope that they’ll be more clear. Beware though - I won’t
try to cover everything.
As the article said: “Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge
voltage of 0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life.” and “In terms of longevity, the optimal
charge voltage is 3.92V/cell. Battery experts believe that this threshold eliminates all
voltage-related stresses; going lower may not gain further benefits but induce other
[degradation processes].” (The actual quote was “symptoms”, but my sense is that
degradation processes is more accurate language.)
And “The smaller the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last.”
A dominant theme in these public comments seems to be a desire for maximum cell life
management. Me too - I want my cells to remain healthy for as many years as possible,
and that’s usually much more important to me than availability of full capacity.
Here’s the unfortunate rub: Due to marketing related specsmanship pressures, cell
management systems (charging and other management circuits) have different priorities.
Portable use time specs are a major competitive matter - device manufacturers seek to
publish superior use time specs, so they’re inclined to design their cell management
systems to charge to about 4.2 V. That seems to be contrary to our actual desires, and for
inaccessible cells such as in most portable devices there’s little or nothing we can do
about the charging voltage, alas. Hopefully insightful engineers will eventually provide a
utility in a device’s operating system which will allow us to select our own desired peak
charging voltage within a range of 3.92 V/cell to 4.20 V/cell. (Frankly this should have
been implemented in all significant portable devices years ago.)
As the article states temperature is also a major degradation factor. (And not just for the
cells, but the electronics in the device too.) Per the article: “The worst situation is keeping
a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures.” But lower temperatures prolong life
under all other conditions too.
Other degradation processes take place at low states of charge - just as the cell
encounters degradation processes at high voltages, it encounters other degradation
processes at low states of charge.
In my personal estimation middle range charge and discharge cycle stresses degrade
much less than higher temperatures, higher charge voltages, or deeper discharges.
So for longest overall life, keep the cells as reasonably cool as practical, charge them to
3.92 V/cell, and discharge them as minimally as practical - recharge them to 3.92 V/cell as
quickly after use as practical.
You have some control over temperature and depth of discharge. As to charging voltage,
we all need to pressure vendors to provide charging voltage control in their products.
They can do this, and rather easily, but evidently need tangible consumer pressure to
prompt action. Be bold - advise them clearly that you want this, are significantly
displeased that it’s not yet available, and will purchase from whichever vendor first
provides this capability.
For accessible cells such as in common LED flashlights, you might have full control, or
nearly so. Ideally find a charger with a selectable charging voltage, if such a product
exists, and set it to 3.92 V. If not, and you have some electronics technical skill, modify the
best charger you can find to reduce its charging voltage to 3.92 V.
(Or construct your own - fabricate a high precision current limited regulator circuit with a
very precise 3.92 V output. Which, ideally, fully disconnects from the cell about five
minutes after 3.92 V is achieved. Very inexpensive (roughly $3) power converter modules
which provide both current and voltage regulation are readily available from Chinese and
perhaps other vendors for example.)
Multi-cell batteries, such as in laptop computers, present more challenges. But just as
with portable devices, we consumers should demand that vendors provide charge voltage
control from 3.92 to 4.20 V/cell. Again, they could - and rather easily. But they probably
won’t until significant pressure to do so exists.
In the meantime we can keep our systems as cool as practical, and discharge the battery
as minimally as practical during portable use.
Again, I’m not an expert in these matters - I’m just trying to articulate my personal
understanding.

Also: In the Macintosh world a third party free or contribution ware utility called
“MacsFanControl” is available. I have several fan equipped Macintosh devices which all
utilize MacsFanControl at its highest cooling settings (which are far more aggressive than
Mac OS defaults). My fans thus make more noise and drain my battery faster. But they
keep my systems quite cool, which I view as far more important. Maybe a similar utility is
available for other devices. Thermal physics is very clear about heat - it degrades
systems, including electrochemical and electronic. As best I recall, roughly speaking every
10 °C rise decreases life by about 50% - that is, life is halved. Heat kills. So I prefer to
keep my systems as cool as I can. (Even when I must thus discharge my battery a bit
more deeply, to a point.)
(BatteryUniversity.com: If you think my thoughts in this or my previous comment are of

some benefit feel free to utilize them as you please, except that if you quote me directly,
please attribute me responsibly.)
Tom V Martin wrote:
Bruce Campbell,
The data doesn’t seem to match the conclusions of the article.
Referring to Table 2
Table 3.
to discharge till the device tells me it needs to be recharged, and then recharging it at that
time.

Hoda Youssef wrote:
Hi there,
What is the safe range of SOC for large scale Li-ion battery energy storage system (2 MW-
4 MWhr) ?
I found most of the literature assume a range between 30% <SOC<90% , is it practical ?
Also, where can I found a good reference to determine the safe SOC range of large scale
BESS.
I thank you in advance for you help

Hoda
Tom, I’m skeptical of Table 2 from the perspective of those who seek maximum lifespan
(in total years of use) of their cells. Table 2 presents discharge data from a default charge
voltage which isn’t stated, but I suspect is 4.20 V. (“DoD is assumed from a fully charged
battery to said percentage level regardless of SoH.”) But charging to 4.20 V degrades the
cell irrespective of depth of discharge. So my sense is that the data in Table 2 represents
a mix of two degradation processes: Depth of discharge related degradation plus
maximum charge related degradation.
My sense from the public comments is that most people seek to maximize the lifespan of
their cells, or at least express that desire. Me too, even above total use (total of ‘units of
use’, that is, sum of all depth of discharge times number of discharges) - I want my
portable devices to remain usable in portable mode for as many years as possible.
Viewing the matter on a fundamental level, a cell has a primary electrochemical reaction,
its charge / discharge reaction, which is 100% reversible and infinitely repeatable with no
degradation. But alas there are also an array of independent secondary chemical and
electrochemical reactions which cause degradation. They’re minimal at low temperatures
and near the middle (ideally 58%) of the charge state. They’re stronger, and thus more
damaging, at high temperatures and high or low charge states.
So those who seek maximum lifespan in total years of use should keep their cells as cool
as practical and as close to a 58% state of charge (3.92 V) as practical. I suspect it’s that
simple.
Or it should be. But the problem - a big one - is that most device manufacturers make
such management extremely difficult (as a practical matter impossible) because they fail
to provide a means to manage the peak charge voltage. (They also fail to provide a means
to operate their fans more aggressively.) They’re immersed in competitive specsmanship,
including portable use time, and highly resistant to anything they perceive might threaten
their specsmanship posturing.
However, clever engineers could convince their firm’s shallow minded MBAs that they can
have it both ways - they can quote portable endurance based on 4.20 V charging in their
specs, yet provide a utility which allows users to manage their cells for maximum lifespan
by lowering the default 4.20 V peak charge voltage to more lifespan friendly levels,
including of course 3.92 V. Evidently a very rare few do - in his February 28, 2011
comment above Rob Smith advised that his Sony VAIO laptop provides such a utility
(except that it evidently presents charge level information as percent of capacity rather
than voltage). Big kudos for Sony! But availability of such control should be pervasive
rather than rare. Bitter raspberries to the majority of vendors…
We consumers need to pressure vendors to provide a utility like Sony’s in all their portable
products. We should aggressively demand it. And vote with our purchase dollars
whenever an opportunity arises.
In the meantime I hope a Battery University member will conduct a precision test focused
on conditions for maximum lifespan. In particular I’m very interested in capacity
endurance for cells cycled between 58% charge (3.92 V) to 48%, 38%, 28%, 18%, and 8%
charge. At 23 °C and, if time permits, some lower and higher temperatures too. I’m very
interested in lifespan results under those conditions, and suspect many others are too.
Again I’m not a student of energy storage cell technology. These are just my personal
impressions.
Hoon wrote:
I just recently found that you can stop charging a Macbook that use Magsafe2 connector
(probably same with Magsafe1) by blocking the center pin which is used for signaling.
Had I known this, I would have used it like this for the last 3 years as most of the time I
was on AC. Current cycle count is 100 on my late 2013 rMBP13. The battery still lasts
pretty long (6+ hours).
I knew Thinkpads have a battery utility where you can limit the charge range by
percentage.

That’s a terrific tip Hoon, thank you!
I studied a bit deeper hoping that common Mac hardware has general purpose access to
that line such that software could control or influence it, thus allowing a utility to control
state of charge of the battery like the Sony Vaio and Lenovo ThinkPad, but evidently it
doesn’t. Thus there appears to be no possible software means to control the battery’s
charge level in a Mac due to lack of hardware support. Bitter raspberries to Apple…
Thus when we’ll be on line power for extended periods we must charge or discharge our
Mac’s battery to about 58% and then insulate the mag-safe connector’s center pin, a stone
knives and bear skins class primitive solution. Bitter bitter raspberries Apple…
I gather Windows 7 has provisions to control battery charge levels but they’re only
effective when the system’s active - in sleep or shutdown mode those provisions can’t
function, so the battery then charges to the level set by hardware (probably 4.2 V/cell or
very close). Microsoft probably did the best they could but are handcuffed by their open
hardware environment, and most hardware isn’t battery management enlightened.
I haven’t studied the landscape in detail, but as far as I know the Sony Vaio and Lenovo
ThinkPad are the only systems which have truly enlightened battery management design
and thus deserve hearty kudos - very good for them! They may rightly claim a far more
advanced design in terms of battery management.
The other vendors need to open their eyes and tend to their tardy homework.
All just in my amateur opinions…
That’s a terrific tip Hoon, thank you!
I studied a bit deeper hoping that common Mac hardware has general purpose access to
that line such that software could control or influence it, thus allowing a software utility to
control state of charge of the battery like the Sony Vaio and Lenovo ThinkPad, but
evidently it doesn’t. Thus there appears to be no possible software means to control the
battery’s charge level in a Mac due to lack of hardware support.
Thus for maximum life management we must charge or discharge our Mac’s battery to
about 58% and then insulate the MagSafe connector’s center pin when we’ll be on line
power for extended periods, a stone knives and bear skins class primitive solution. Bitter
bitter raspberries to Apple…
I insulated my MagSafe 2 connector center pin for my MacBook Air 7,2 running Sierra
10.12.1, and your method does indeed work. However, the OS illustrates a lightning bolt
over the battery icon at the top of the screen which suggests the battery is charging when
in fact it isn’t. But the LED indicator in the mag-safe 2 connector remains dark. So the
combination provides a positive indication - the icon can be interpreted to indicate that the
laptop is receiving line power, and the dark MagSafe 2 LED interpreted to indicate that the
battery is not charging.
I tested one of my older MagSafe 1 equipped MacBook Pros running legacy OS 10.6.8, (for
important legacy application compatibility) with basically the same positive results. The
laptop is powered, but the MagSafe 1 connector’s LED remains dark and the battery
doesn’t charge. The Finder’s battery icon has a lot of response latency, but ultimately
(after a restart for me) indicates that power is connected and that the battery is not
charging. But the “Not Charging” message overwrites the state of charge percentage
information, alas, so the user has to refer to System Profiler / Power and do a little math to
acquire that information. Or, for a rough indication, press the physical button for the
battery charge state indicator to momentarily see it.
I gather Windows 7 has provisions to control battery charge levels but they’re only
effective when the system’s active - in sleep or shutdown mode those provisions can’t
function, so the battery then charges to the level set by hardware (probably 4.2 V/cell or
very close). Microsoft probably did the best they could but are handcuffed by their open
hardware environment, and most hardware isn’t battery management enlightened.
I haven’t studied the landscape in detail, but as far as I know the Sony Vaio and Lenovo
ThinkPad are the only systems which provide truly enlightened battery management
design and thus deserve hearty kudos - very good for them! They may rightly claim a far
more advanced design in terms of battery management.
The other vendors need to open their eyes and tend to their tardy homework…
All just in my amateur opinions of course…
Hoon wrote:
This got me thinking, which is worse for a sealed smartphone battery, keeping the battery
full and plugged in most time when possible (with twice a day discharge to around 50%),
or very frequent shallow cycling anywhere between 20-80%?

Guenter Kloepper wrote:
For what it’s worth, here is some experience that may be useful :
We have designed an App for Android which turns the phone into a Time Reporting
Terminal. We use the NFC capability as a Badge Reader. What this usage implies is that
the phone will be connected 100% of the time to its charger.
For the first batch of 100 units units we used a Samsung Core Prime phone. Well, after
about 9 months in use, the batteries bloat to such en extent that the entire phone bends
into an egg shape and we fear that some units are liable to explode. So we analyzed what
actually happens between the phone and the battery. When the battery is fully charged,
Samsung continues with a small trickle charge that starts at around 50 mA and drops off
to 5 - 10 mA (phone switched on, screen on and App running). After 40 minutes they
disconnect the charger for around 4 minutes and then repeat the 40-minute cycle. The
charge current is different with the phone switched off, on but idle, and on with screen on
and App running.
When you calculate the total charge into the battery during the 40 minutes and the charge
drained during the 4 minutes you discover that the battery is being overcharged slightly
with each cycle. When you extrapolate that over a month you discover that the overcharge
is about 25% of the rated capacity of the battery (2000 mAh). So after 4 months the
battery is overcharged by 100% and so it goes on until something (don’t yet know what)
happens . . .
Ajoy wrote:
What is the better practice for keeping battery well?

We will do full charge and discharge to a certain level or always keep in AC power.
petey pablo wrote:
Does anyone know what would happen to a samsung phone which has 3000mah battery
but was shipped with 0% battery and subsequently was stored in storage in warehouse for
a year and the protection cut off switch was activated so did not turn on upon receiving.
I think the voltage was around 3500mv so 3.5v at 0% maybe a bit less say 3.4v , how much
damage to the lithium ion battery would their be if it’s been in storage at low voltage for a
year brand new?
Trying to decide whether to send it back. The voltage for my previous phone which i need
to send back at 61% battery is 3920mv so 3.92V but on this one (due to damage i suspect
of being stored at 0% and sleep switch activated ) at 61% reads 3855mv (3.85V) is the
difference of 70mv (0.7V) a significant difference?
It seems to me the damage caused by the sleep switch circuit activated for nearly a year
in low state of charge will have damaged the cells in the battery right?
Especially where everywhere preaches storing at 40%. I dont know why that samsung
factory is so stupid and storing it at 0% and sending the phones out that way.
BillV wrote:
I use a custom battery pack on a motorcycle consisting of eight A123 (LiFePO4) cells in a
series/parallel arrangement. I found that the bike’s ECM and instrument cluster will drain
the pack in about 6 weeks of non-use so I’ve started making use of its quick disconnect.
A Battery Tender Jr. will bring it up to about 14.2 V and it will drift down to about 14.1 V in
several days while disconnected. Any drift beyond that seems to be very slow. The bike’s
charging system will leave it at around 13.5 V, which is also associated with very slow
downward drift while disconnected. All of that is at 65-70 °F. It’s relatively easy to drain
the battery to a desired voltage. Do you have any recommendations on what it should be
in terms of prolonging its life while in storage?
P.S. The Dreamliner battery was a lithium cobalt oxide type.
Daniel wrote:
The article states that the optimal charge level is 3.92 volts/cell and that 3.92 V
represents 58% capacity. However, the company that manufacturers the charger I am
using for my lithium ion pack (a Panasonic NCR18650GA type) says that 3.92 volts
represents a 73% state of charge. Why the difference in percentages?
BillV wrote:
I’m suspicious of that information as it relates to LiFePO4 batteries. Their voltages are
lower such that 3.92 is unachievable. Fully charged my batteries are only around 3.5 V.
See page 2 here: http://www.a123systems.com/Collateral/Documents/English-US/A123
Systems ANR26650 Data Sheet.pdf. I haven’t looked at this in any detail but it seems to
me that recommendations for optimum voltage for long storage life need to reference the
specific type of battery instead of only stating lithium ion. This could be what is going on
with your 58% vs 73% values.
rangamaniiyer wrote:
is there any laptop battery with screw fitting that can be opened up to replace li ion
batteries instead of throwing out the good electronic parts?
geok wrote:
HELP. My battery for Dell 6230 dont charging (0%) and after the check show these:
What is all of that ? I am litle unrelated…...Is my battery DEAD ???
Power Efficiency Diagnostics Report

Computer Name GEO1-PC
Scan Time 2017-01-13T22:39:32Z
Scan Duration 60 seconds
System Manufacturer Dell Inc.
System Product Name Latitude E6230
BIOS Date 10/08/2012
BIOS Version A06
OS Build 7601
Platform Role PlatformRoleMobile
Plugged In true
Process Count 95
Thread Count 1017
Report GUID {4c1be59a-4825-4928-86fe-85fb4c23ba61}.
Errors.
USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Suspend

The USB device did not enter the Suspend state. Processor power management may be
prevented if a USB device does not enter the Suspend state when not in use.
Device Name USB Root Hub
Host Controller ID PCI\VEN_8086&DEV;_1E26
Host Controller Location PCI bus 0, device 29, function 0
Device ID USB\VID_8086&PID;_1E26
Port Path

Device Name USB Composite Device
Device ID USB\VID_0A5C&PID;_5801
Port Path 1,8

Device Name Generic USB Hub
Device ID USB\VID_8087&PID;_0024
Port Path 1
CPU Utilization:Processor utilization is high

The average processor utilization during the trace was high. The system will consume less
power when the average processor utilization is very low. Review processor utilization for
individual processes to determine which applications and services contribute the most to
total processor utilization.
Average Utilization (%) 27.56
Platform Power Management Capabilities:PCI Express Active-State Power Management

(ASPM) Disabled
PCI Express Active-State Power Management (ASPM) has been disabled due to a known
incompatibility with the hardware in this computer.
Warnings,..........
information,.........
geok wrote:
My battery has that information. What it show? Are good on not? Why my battery dont
charging (0%)?
Battery:Battery Information
Battery ID 1816Samsung SDIDELL KFHT82B
Manufacturer Samsung SDI
Serial Number 1816
Chemistry LION
Long Term 1
Design Capacity 65490
Last Full Charge 65490
Pouly G wrote:
Some of you don’t understand meaning of term cycle. 1 cycle is a full discharge from
100% to 0%.
So some of your math in comments is wrong it should be like this:
100% DoD 300–500
50% DoD gives you 1,200–1,500 full 100% cycles meaning 2,400-3,000 50% charges.
25% DoD gives you 2,000–2,500 full 100% cycles meaning 8,000-10,0000 25% charges
10% DoD gives you 3,750–4,700 full 100% cycles 37,500-47,000 10% charges
But it all comes down to Li-Po, Li-Ion batteries age really quickly. A 2 year old Li based
battery is considered old doesn’t matter if you used it or not and probably is holding 80%
of initial charge.
Dominik Nožka wrote:
Hello everyone,
I have developed the smart charging adapter which prolongs battery lifespan more than 2
times. It is called GentlyCharge and it solves problems of modern batteries like deep
discharging and overcharging and protects battery from heat during charging. It is
compatible with all the Android phones and tablets, and also with an Apple iPhone or an
iPad.
For more info visit: www.gentlycharge.com

Hoon wrote:
Hi Dominik,
Nice idea on the hardware implementation. I checked out your website and I’m impressed.
One question, on your test data, does 10% battery level mean 10% reported by the
Android/iOS phone itself, or does it refer to a specific voltage? I think modern phones have
a safe low level (cutting off early enough) so it doesn’t wear out the battery too much, but
nobody knows for sure as they can mess with both the 0% and the 100% and make
sacrifices on the usable life.
Another question, is it capable of dealing with Qualcomm’s QC which raises the voltage to
9V? It’s still less than 1C charge rate on my Galaxy S7 Edge, so I think it’s ok as long as the
heat is in check so I tend to use it when I’m in a hurry or have a fan to cool my phone while
charging.
Thanks,
Hoon
Theodore wrote:
Based on the information provided in this article, isn’t it the best practice to remove the
battery for as long as you are home and let the laptop run solely from the power supply?
Say that your battery is 50-60% drained or even 40% isnt it still better to save it from
several hours everyday of being topped off as being in full charge stresses the cell a lot?
You can always charge it when you wake up or at work depending on your schedule.This
practice is employed on experia XE and newer smartphones too. They ry to avoid both
toping off and complee draining based on the users lifestyle.
John wrote:
I recently bought two smartwatches - Samsung Gear S2 Classic and S3 Classic and I am
concerned about the lifespan of the batteries. I am not a science-minded person, so much
of the article and nearly all of the comments are a bit over my head. That said, from the
information I have gathered from forums where I posted my question, I was led to believe
that the battery should, in the end, last anywhere from 2-3 years, depending of course on
usage, temperature, number of charge cycles, percentage of charge cycles, etc. One
person stated that it sounded like the battery in the S2 looked to him to be a classic 300
cycle battery, so if fully discharged and recharged daily, it wouldn’t last a year! However, in
the article above, it says:
“Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of
0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to
4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be
prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell
should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles.”
Given this info, since the battery in question (Gear S2 Classic) is a Li-ion 250 mAh 3.8 V
0.95Wh, which, I would assume, is close to the 3.90 V mentioned above, shouldn’t it
provide roughly 2,4000-4,000 cycles, taking into account, of course, the variables I
mentioned above?
I would greatly appreciate any and all input regarding this questions, smartwatch batteries
in general and those for the S2 Classic and S3 Classic in particular.
Many thanks!
John
Theodore wrote:
Hello there. You mention that the battery is a 3.8 volts 250mAh cell but i think the 3.8
refers to the nominal voltage. Its a bit strange to be referenced as 3,8v because most of
the cells i ve seen are referenced 3,6-3,7 but that being said i think its highly unlikely to be
charged only until 3,8v. If i were the designer i would want the full 250mAh which is
achieved at ~4.2. Therefore what i would do if i were you to increase the lifetime is make
sure to charge it only at 80-90% and disconnect it afterwards, effectively restricting the
charge to somewhere after 4.0v close to 4-05ish and i think this would extend the charge
cycles but would reduce the RUNTIME between charging too.
Jeremy wrote:
Pouly G said this:

Some of you don’t understand meaning of term cycle. 1 cycle is a full discharge from
100% to 0%.
So some of your math in comments is wrong it should be like this:
100% DoD 300–500
50% DoD gives you 1,200–1,500 full 100% cycles meaning 2,400-3,000 50% charges.
25% DoD gives you 2,000–2,500 full 100% cycles meaning 8,000-10,0000 25% charges
10% DoD gives you 3,750–4,700 full 100% cycles 37,500-47,000 10% charges
But it all comes down to Li-Po, Li-Ion batteries age really quickly. A 2 year old Li based
battery is considered old doesn’t matter if you used it or not and probably is holding 80%
of initial charge.
—
At first I was confused as the table said discharge cycles, this implies that it is the amount
of cycles when discharged by the DoD and fully charged to 4.2V. This results in 50% DoD
giving the most cycles.
HOWEVER THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Paula is correct, according to the chart on http://www.mpoweruk.com/life.htm , the lower
the Depth of Discharge, the higher the average cycle. Average cycle defined as a complete
discharge and charge (0-100%). Roughly it seems halving the DoD gives twice the amount
of cycles. This also seems correct with Table 2, going from 50% to 25% DoD roughly gives
double the cycles, 1200 to 2000.
Also Table 6 here seems to match with MrPowerUK and Tesla forums again, the lower the
State of Charge after charging, the more cycles you will achieve.
From what I read here and other studies I can conclude that it is best to make frequent,
short charges, 10% or less ideally, and keep maximum charging voltage to a minimum.
Though of course realistically that is difficult, it is better to do frequent top ups, and
disconnect the charging as soon as possible, within reason.
Hoon wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
“... From what I read here and other studies I can conclude that it is best to make frequent,
short charges, 10% or less ideally, and keep maximum charging voltage to a minimum.
Though of course realistically that is difficult, it is better to do frequent top ups, and
disconnect the charging as soon as possible, within reason.”
According to the guys that make the AccuBattery app for Android, keeping it between 90%
to 100% will cause similar wear on the battery as doing:
charging from 70%-90% (using 20%)
charging from 40%-80% (using 40%)
charging from 10%-60% twice (using 100%)
or something like that. All numbers are made up by me just to show the point.
Keeping the voltage high (besides heat) wears the battery, so try to stay in the lower
bound.
Smartphones have a low voltage cut-off point so the voltage doesn’t go dangerously low
before powering off. With this in mind, I’m keeping my Galaxy S7 Edge between 20-60%
most times, and try to avoid charging over 80% on my iPhone SE.
Jeremy wrote:
I agree definitely charging from 90% to 100% will wear the battery faster because it is
hitting a higher voltage, and the battery is stressed all the time at 4.2V since it is never
given a chance to drop down and relax. Going from 90%-100% will probably kill the battery
faster than charging from 25%-100%.
My point was, in theory, the shorter you keep the charge times (lower depth of discharge),
the more life you can squeeze out of the battery.
Based on the table and graph going from 40%-60% is better than 20%-60%. Doing this will
increase the amount of cycles because there is less stress. Of course this doesn’t apply to
100% cutoff, because constantly staying at high voltage alone will kill it.
Ideally if there is always an outlet nearby, the best time to charge it is 40%-50% so that it
minimizes voltage cutoff and DoD to extend cycle life. As I said before this is unrealistic,
so we try to charge it as soon as possible and disconnect it at the earliest, whether it is
50% or 70%.
Tahseen Javaid wrote:
my question is that i have s6 edge, i want to expend his battery life as long so what can i
do, which percent age % i can charge my phone 15 or 40 % to till 100% percent please tell
me about this situation.
as s6 edge has 9 volts battery?
On March 20, 2017 at 10:54pm
Rob Zilla wrote:

Someone told me a metaphor.. think of your Li-ion battery as 2 flavors of pudding. When
the vanilla mixes with the chocolate, the charge depletes. If only a little mix it can be
separated easier, but allowing them to completely “swirl” makes it real hard to separate
the flavors (the positive and negative charges). I don’t have any proof of this but it makes
it easy to think about. I keep my system plugged in most the time but if I wanna take it
somewhere I just let it get no lower than 3/4 or so.
Not like the old days where you had to “train” your Ni-cad’s (and I think NiMH wanted full to
0 too iirc)
So best I can tell don’t quixk charge Li-I batteries and don’t let em run all the way out.
Heck my 3DS has been on for 3 days and still has 2/3 charge, tho a lot was in standby
mode.
On March 23, 2017 at 11:38pm
revant wrote:
can a lithium ion battery used to charge a electric bike , be used to charge a electric
stove(like a hot plate) ?
On May 26, 2017 at 1:46pm
♪ wrote:
The figure 6 is just mind blowing! I’ll try my best to prolong my smartphone or anything’s
battery life that uses lithium ions as much as possible. Thank you so much for this useful
article!
However, I use a battery monitoring app on my phone and it shows battery voltage. And
while charging, above 70% the voltage is 4351mV and it seems constant. But it can be as
high as 4470mV. When unplugged, the voltage drops to around 4200mV in several
minutes.
My question is, is this normal? I mean, is it OK for my battery? The article says no to above
4.2V. But I don’t think this is just my device, which is Moto G4 Plus. My previous phone
was Nexus 5, but the voltage while charging was also above 4.3V, I believe. Are current
smartphones’ batteries are different from ones that are described in the article?
Should I abandon the manufacturer’s charger with Quick Charge and always charge from
my PC’s USB port though it’s super slow? Because when I charge it that way, the voltage is
kept much lower. (The phone doesn’t get hot also.)
Is it OK if I disconnect the charger before it reaches, say 80%, or is it that high voltage
harms my phone’s battery no matter what the final SoC is?
I hope someone will answer my questions.
On May 29, 2017 at 2:15am
♪ wrote:
My another question is, which is worse, 0% to 50% every day or 50% to 100% every day?
The figure 6 doesn’t show any result tested below 25%. So my question ultimately would
be: which is worse, overcharging or overdischarging? I don’t know if they’re the correct
words.
I have a feeling that 100% will be worse than 0%.
My yet another question is, which is good, 50% to 70% 1000 times or 60% to 70% 2000
times?
I really want to know if an amount of energy (=electrons?) you give to a battery at a time
matters or only SoC (=voltage) is important in this case.
And apparently, if you use Chrome and have its data saver turned on, you can’t add a
comment on this site.
On June 9, 2017 at 10:01am
Jeremy wrote:
I don’t know if you will read this since this is a couple weeks late but I’ll reply anyways
since it might be helpful to others.
I know that for smartphones they use varying lithium chemistries that change their
nominal voltage, and thus their charge terminal voltage. In fact I’d argue the majority of
phones nowadays use lipo’s that terminate far above 4.2V, 4.4V is probably the norm. No
need to worry, just look at percentage, 100% is still 100%. Totally fine to disconnect at 80%,
just look at figure 6 to charge how you want it. 80%, is good, less then that is better.
Now for quick charging, “in theory” quick charge 1.0/2.0 will reduce the amount of cycles
the battery has left. Their specs indicate a faster amp draw, which will result in more heat
and stress on the battery as you experienced, and thus amount of cycles. However quick
charge ONLY activates from 0%-50 or 60%, after which it will switch back to standard
charging. With the large battery capacities nowadays, any phone with more than 2000
mah will safely quick charge below 1-1.5C, which won’t significantly affect battery
capacity. This means in reality stress is limited, current is tightly controlled to avoid
overheating, and the damage is minuscule you may not even notice the change in
capacity.
With quick charge turned off, you can charge from your mains adapter much faster than
your USB port with nearly no difference in longevity up to 0.5C. WIth a Moto G4
(3000mah), that is any adapter up to 1.5A. Ultimately it’s up to you, if you want to
maximize longevity and/or you keep for phone for 3+years you can just turn quick charge
off, and charge with the mains adapter. More info on charge rates at BU-401a: Fast and
Ultra-fast Chargers.
0-50% is definitely better. There was a military study done on it, it was on Tesla forums but
I don’t remember the link. Reason being that 100% keeps the battery stressed more at high
voltage than at 0%, and you are normally above 0%. Of course 0% is still bad, the cell
begins failing, but the phone will protect from that (0% is not actually 0%). This is why I
recommend 20-50% or even better, 40-50%. Of course that only gives you only 50% of
battery for emergency, so you can up that to 60 or 70% with a slight reduction in battery
life.
60-70% is better than 50-70%. Look at table 2. You reduced the depth of discharge by 10%,
but gives nearly 10x more cycles. Why 10x? I don’t know, but it’s just the way the battery is
and with mpoweruk.com/life.htm saying the same thing as Table 2, it must be right.
The answer is the less energy, electrons, you give to a battery, the more cycles you get.
They even claim cells in microcycle applications (charge and discharge pulses) can get
300,000 cycles. Again, in reality you won’t see it, but those are the conclusions.
Hope this helps!
On June 9, 2017 at 10:02am
Tom Brantley wrote:
Trying to figure out what voltage equates to 40% SoC?
My batteries are Li ion (NCA)....I thought that the voltage range was approximately 3.0v-
4.2v and that would mean that 40% SoC was approximately .4 x 1.2 + 3.0 = 3.48v.
I read on the Battery University site that “At 40 percent charge, most Li-ion has an OCV of
3.82V/cell measured at room temperature.”
What am I not interpreting correctly?
My sincere Thanks for all of your help.
On June 26, 2017 at 6:37am
sakthivel selvam wrote:

What is the maximum discharge voltage / deep discharge voltage of Li ion battery.
What will happen if i discharge the battery (li ion) to 2.3V.
Battery part no: ICR18650B3

Manufacture : LG Chem
On July 28, 2017 at 11:19am
Yura wrote:
Is keeping battery at 100% as bad as deep discharge to 0%?
What should I do? I have a MacBook Air but I use it as a laptop - connected to power, its
battery always at 100%
How often should I disconnect it and how deep let the battery discharge?
Why don’t manufacturers explain this? This is the most ignored question ever! :(
MKING wrote:
We have a new Macbook Pro and it gets warm when charging. I am considering the
purchase of a lower-wattage (amps) charger which will charge slower and at maybe a
lower induced temp. for the battery. I have used a lower powered charger on my mobile
phone and it does seem to help re temp. and battery longevity.
Am I on the right track or deluded?
Thanks
Rudi wrote:
Suppose I want to charge my cells to 4.08 volts.

What is best in order to minimize the stress:
1. Charge to 4.20 volts with high current (1-2 amps) en then stop when voltage is
dropping. The end result then will be about 4.08 volts.
2. Set my charger (SkyRC MC3000) to charge to 4.10 volts and let charging go on till the
voltage drop to 0.1 - 0.2 volts. Also here the result will be about 4.08 volts.
The first method is of course the fastest, but will bring the cell shortly at 4.2 volts.
The second method takes much longer (also stress), but never make the cell’s voltage
above 4.1 volts, being 90%.
ZVI wrote:
Lead Acid batteries during charging emit toxic gases during charging and especially at
electrica fork lift trucks.
What about the large batteries charging gassing of EV vehicles?
John Fetter wrote:
Lead-acid batteries emit hydrogen and oxygen at the end of charging. Neither is toxic. The
mixture is flammable.
Pablo Kho wrote:
@Jeremy
Nice information! Definitely helps!
Claudio wrote:
Hello
Explanatory text. Thank you

About new smartphone charging technologies, do they hurt the battery? Or are they
functional and secure?
Thank you
Claudio (Brazil)

Evi1M4chine wrote:
One thing missingg in all of this, seems to be, that longevity seems to be measured in
charge-discharge cycles, instead of total use time!
Because, of course you get more cycles if you only use it for a part of the capacity. Duh.
The total amount of discharging/use might still not be better!
I hope you can answer this, as it is really preventing me, from being able to draw any
useful conclusions from this. :/
Mogens wrote:
Table 3 figure text says that the numbers are for 1 year, but in the lowr right corner of the
table it says “(3 months)”... So which is correct? And what does the 3 months refer to if
not the period of storage?
Jesse wrote:
I have a question, so if the best percentage to store a lithium battery is 40 percent, why is
it the the longest cycling is 65- 75 percent? Shouldn’t you try to keep the percentage to 40
as much as possible? So maybe 45 - 35 percent? or is there something i am missing out?
MKING wrote:

MKING wrote:
We have a new Macbook Pro and it gets warm when charging. I am considering the
purchase of a lower-wattage (amps) charger which will charge slower and at maybe a
lower induced temp. for the battery. I have used a lower powered charger on my mobile
phone and it does seem to help re temp. and battery longevity.
Am I on the right track or deluded?
I still don’t know what to do? Do I charge slower or as rapidly as possible? I am doing 20%
to 90% at present but it seems I should be recharging at 40% and unplugging at 80% to
prolong the life?
I am now using an older HP laptop as a TV streamer and am actually removing the battery
when it it ‘on the mains’ - this ought to help the battery stress by no being connected or in
use - yes?
Vortex wrote:
Hello!
In response to Evi1M4chine on November 2, 2017 at 10:26pm
Have in mind please I am not an expert.

——————————
If we consider the whole energy transferred to the device by means of the battery we, I
think, could better understand the “cycles vs. use time” thing.
Now.
Discharging the battery 10 times by 50% (let’s say from 100 to 50 percents) gives the
device the energy equivalent to 5 full 100% discharge, or 5C, “5 batteries”, to say
I’ll try to calculate this energy from the data plotted in

“Figure 6: Capacity loss when operating Li-ion within given charge and discharge
bandwidths”.
Let’s consider the battery started to degrade and it’s full state of charge is at 90% as
compared to the initial state which was 100%. From the data plot we see that if the battery
discharge is driven at 100% to 25% range it reaches 90% capacity retention after 1000
cycles. On the other hand if the battery discharge is driven at only 75% to 65% it reaches
90% capacity retention after 9000 cycles (extrapolated). Much more cycles but with less
energy transferred to the device in a single cycle.
So the whole energy transferred to the device when sycling at 100%-25% is
75% multiplied by 1000 which gives 750 C. “C” is the full virgin capacity.
In the case of 75%-65% we have
10%*9000 = 900 C.
Calculated this way we obtain the following:

75%-65% - 900C
75%-45% - 1500C
75%-25% - 1500C
85%-25% - 1200C
100%-50% - 800C
100%-40% - 720C
100%-25% - 750C
till the battery reaches 10% capacity degrading (90% retention).
As one can see there is an optimum in this therms and I would prefer 85%-25% or
75%-25% discharging.
Vortex wrote:
I extrapolated graphically the data from Figure 6 to more cycles using an

intrapolation/extrapolation program with default settings assuming there’s a linear decay
of the capacity retention with the number of cycles:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/iejbip.jpg
If so it can be expected a drop of battery capacity retention to 75% after 13000 cycles in
the “75%-25%” scenario, drop to 70% after 11000 cycles in the “85%-25%” scenario and,
the worst case, drop to 70% at about 7000 cycles when using 100%-25% scenario.
tOM_Trottier wrote:
Many devices do not show how charged they are - headphones, speakers, flashlights, and
more.
One strategy with them is to use an in-line meter that shows the current used. These are
readily available for USB on ebay & elsewhere. Once you have the meter, you can watch it
to see the maximum charge reached when recharging from empty & then charge to the
level you want. You can time this & then use a timer to tell you when to shut it off. This
works if you always completely discharge the device or battery.
Another strategy, with a device, is to watch the current flow. Devices are smart enough to
cut down the current as it reaches full, by monitoring the voltage or temperature. So if you
see the current steady for a while, then start to drop, you can stop charging the moment
you see the drop in current. My guess is that this happens when approaching 80% full, a
reasonable tradeoff between battery life and battery longevity.
robert wrote:
Id be grateful to anyone that could provide a viable solution.
I need to “balance” 12v 110Ah LiFeMgPO4 “lithium iron magnesium phosphate” batteries.
There are 2,544 in total / 48 packs of 53 in series.

Each battery has 4 cells approx 3.5v
Un-terminating them is an unreasonable option.
If there is a good method to charge/ balance in bulk, while in series id sure like to know.
this has been an epic tedious undertaking.
so far we’ve been charging the whole pack until one of any cell in any module reaches
3.8v. Then using truck chargers topping off the low modules. After that discharge the
entire pack, charge again and repeat until they get tighter.
There has to be a better way.
RICHARD L GREEN wrote:
Kudos to Vortex. My thoughts exactly.
You can believe me, I am a chemist.
boopathiraja m wrote:
I read about this website it will very useful for basic understanding about batteries
i will suggest you to read this site very carefully ....thanks for all other comments
Dcharte (mofo ) wrote:
I have booked marked the page for future reference , that voltage information is invaluable
understanding of battery life and how are care plays a role in it. an .Ive been honing the
charge / discharge skills these last few days in prep for this weeks test rides with a new
ebike build and its combined 25AH of batteries.
I want to add for those who use their laptops plugged in predominately you can install a
app to set the charge to charge to 60% capacity (or what ever you choose) as it can/will
extend the battery life by years. I myself have been using the lenovo battery saver app on a
lenovo notebook since new.. I expect to get 20 years out them as they have 25 cycles on
them now after 2 years..
My adice to all li ion users is to charge to 60 to 80% and top up to 90-95appy charging
tuinx518 wrote:
Now apply all this on Tesla battery, which is also lithium…...so imaging how fast the car is
charging and discharging compare to a phone, no one gonna charge the car to only 75%
anyway and charging a tesla at around 90kw will cause the battery temperature at around
40C, which is basically at the temperature of a phone working on full time benchmark
running…...base on these…....the tesla battery will probably only have 50% of battery after 3
years…depend how often you charge it.
Paul McGuire wrote:
Regarding the comments on teslas - they’re holding up fairly well.
https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/
https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/tesla-battery-degradation-3/
https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-data-degradation/
https://www.teslarati.com/how-long-will-tesla-battery-last-degradation/
http://evobsession.com/tesla-model-s-battery-degradation-level-5-30000-miles/
Peter wrote:
Hi, I would like to start by thanking the author(s) for gathering all these helpful data and
informing the public.
I have, however, noticed a huge discrepancy between the number of discharge cycles
presented in Table 2 and Figure 6 that I hope someone can provide more insight. Table 2
presents that an 80% DoD, which I interpret as charging a battery to 100% and discharging
it to 20%, will cause the maximum battery capacity to drop to 70% after ~400 discharge
cycles. However, in Figure 6, the dynamic stress test indicates that, by charging a battery
to 100% and then discharging it to 25% (black line), the battery will retain 79% of its
maximum capacity even after 4,000 cycles. In other words, Figure 6 presents that a 75%
DoD will results in 21% loss in maximum battery capacity after ~4,000 discharge cycles,
whereas Table 2 presents that an 80% DoD will results in 30% loss in maximum battery
capacity after only ~400 discharge cycles (10 times fewer cycles compared to Figure 2!).
Which one is correct?
As someone who is prepared to replace my electronics in 3 to 5 years, I am expecting my

battery to undergo between 2,190 (3 years) to 3,650 (5 years) discharge cycles with an
average of 2 charges per day. According to Figure 6, if I charge my battery to 100% and
discharge it to 25% (75% DoD) every cycle, after 2,190 cycles, my maximum battery
capacity will be at 85% and after 3,650 cycles, my maximum battery capacity will be at
~80%. I find this level of degradation acceptable and will not make any changes to how I
charge my battery. However, according to Table 2, an 80% DoD (charging to 100% and
discharging to 20%) will decrease the maximum battery capacity to 70% after only 400
cycles (roughly 7 months) and will warrant a change in my battery-charging behavior.
Again, I am curious to know which of these two is correct.
Note that both Table 2 and Figure 6 does not consider battery degradation over time and
for the purpose of this discussion, let’s not consider the effect of ageing on the battery. I
am aware that Li-battery starts to degrade as soon as it leaves the manufacturing line.
However, if the response to my question is simply, “Li-battery degrades naturally, so after 2
years you are expected to get a new one”, then there is no point to this discussion. Why
bother making changes to your battery-charging behaviour if natural degradation is more
detrimental.
Paul McGuire wrote:
At the above poster (Peter)—- a difference of 30% and 20% is not a massive difference
when you’re considering lithium ion batteries. That’s in the same general ballpark. Every
battery is going to act a little bit different.
Just remember that when you say you expect an average of 2 charges per day, you aren’t
talking charge cycle, right? A charge cycle is a complete 100% to 0% drain (this is 1 cycle).
Charging from 100% to 50% and back to 100% - doing this twice is 1 charge cycle even
though I charged the phone twice. So doing 2 charge cycles a day is extremely rare unless
you’re a super heavy cellphone user.
My wife uses her phone a lot and only averages 360 cycles on her iPhone 6s+ after 1.7
years. I an a more moderate usage and I only use about 220 after 1.7 years (I had a 6s+ as
well).
You are very correct - most people will get a new phone at or around 2-3 years. Most users
will not have consumed enough cycles to really make an effect. My wife’s iPhone lost
about 3% design capacity after 360+ cycles. My phone stayed the same (design capacity).
You’re absolutely correct, most people will not keep their devices or phones long enough.
Those that do, however, can benefit by the information above.
Batteries are incredibly variable - some will hold designed capacity after many cycles,
some aren’t so lucky. On average, if you do a 40-80% charge, your battery will keep its
design capacity over a much longer period of time than someone who does 0-100% or
keeps their phone at 100%.
I think your expecting to use 2,190 - 3,650 cycles is incredibly high. My wife is a heavy user
of her phone and she’d be lucky to hit 400 after 2 years.
Chris wrote:
Thanks for this valuable article. Over the years, this information has proven to be accurate.
For the first 2 years, I used to keep my laptop plugged in all the time with 100% charge
state. Unsurprisingly, the battery capacity had degraded by about 25% over that time. After
reading this article, I started storing it at 40% and charging it to 80% at most ( while
seldom charging to 100% just to calibrate).
Seven years after the purchase, my laptop can still get at least 2-3 hours of moderate
usage, while colleagues with 2014 or newer models need to carry their chargers with
them.
Another example is with two LG android phones, which I bought in late 2014. One of them
(mine) was charged using the 40-80 method, while the other one was used normally.
Over 3.5 years later, my phone has retained about 85% of it’s battery capacity, while the
other one is roughly at half or less. The problem is that battery replacements available for
sale are as old as the one currently being used, and they have also degraded over time.
That perfectly functioning phone will need to be replaced for this very reason. So, take
care of your batteries, better do a 40-80 charge once a day (i use an app to limit the
charging) instead of 10-100 charge every two days. And charge to 100% when you know
you are going to need it!
Peter wrote:
Hi Paul. Thank you for your response. The discrepancy that I am referring to, however, is
not in regards to the maximum battery capacity. It is in regards to the number of discharge
cycles presented in Table 2 and Figure 6. Table 2 states that a certain level of degradation
will occur after ~400 cycles, whereas Figure 6 presents a lesser level of degradation after
exceeding ~4,000 cycles. That’s a 10 times difference in the number of cycles! (and the
huge discrepancy that I am referring to). I hope someone can provide more insight.
For ease of reference, I will quote my previous post:

“Figure 6 presents that a 75% DoD will results in 21% loss in maximum battery capacity
after ~4,000 discharge cycles, whereas Table 2 presents that an 80% DoD will results in
30% loss in maximum battery capacity after only ~400 discharge cycles (10 times fewer
cycles compared to Figure 2!). Which one is correct?”
elijah smith wrote:
You’re absolutely correct, most people will not keep their devices or phones long enough.
Those that do, however, can benefit from the information above.
Dorian Diaconu wrote:
Can someone give me some feedback related to BATTERY LIFE in terms of wired vs
wireless charging (fast charging disabled)?
I already know that fast charging CAN reduce battery life. Do we have any info on wireless
charging? Since it’s an inductive charging, some part of it’s energy it’s released as heat
(not used for charging) and I think it SHOULD affect the battery.
The wireless charger I bought is a Wireless Qi Fast Charge Standing Samsung EP-N5100
with fans incorporated to reduce the heating. (Yeah, I use it on a compatible Samsung
smartphone)
I made the mistake to have the fast charge active for some time (didn’t know it was active
by default), but I only charge it from 40 to 80 so I hope no less damage has been done.
Since I plan to keep the phone for a while (I doubt I’ll switch in 2 years), I want to try and be
careful with the battery.

John Donegan wrote:
Hi
Thanks for a great site. I have been trying to estimate lion battery capacity SOC from
voltages. I know its inacurrate at best - BUT on this page;
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
you indicate 3.8v approximates to 60% charge(table 2).
But on this current page(table 4) you indicate 3.8v is around 35-40% charge. Can you offer
more info on this?
Thanks John
On May 4, 2018 at 7:02pm
Mike wrote:
Great info - for the tech oriented folks. Thanks. Really.
But how about a bullet point explanation for those of us who don’t want to read 5000
words and just want the basic idea of what is best for our smart phone?
For instance how about a bullet point explanation of the following:
*Best to let it get to X% charge before recharging

*Best to charge it to Y%
*Is it ok to leave it charging all night?
*Is it okay to remove it from charging at any time?
*Is it okay to use it while charging?
*How bad is it if it runs down to 0 charge?
*How much does it reduce the life of the battery if I pay no attention to any of these best
practices and just charge it when I want and remove it from charging when I want?
On May 7, 2018 at 6:58pm
tOM_Trottier wrote:
*Best to let it get to X% charge before recharging,

—0% if single 4.2v battery 10% if greater voltage
*Best to charge it to Y%
—60% best.
*Is it ok to leave it charging all night?
—no
*Is it okay to remove it from charging at any time?
—yes
*Is it okay to use it while charging?
—yes
*How
On May 10, 2018 at 11:17am
Don Gilleis wrote:
If I am eyeballing Figure 6, I get the following numbers. I am looking at the total amount of
energy (in full cycles) I get before I hit 90% battery capacity:
75%-65% = 0.1 x 9000 = 900 full-cycles

75%-45% = 0.3 x 5000 = 1500 full-cycles
75%-25% = 0.5 x 3000 = 1500 full-cycles
85%-25% = 0.6 x 2000 = 1200 full-cycles
So I would conclude that 75%-25% is the best recharging schedule, since it gets you 1500
full-cycles worth of power before the battery degrades to 90%.
On May 29, 2018 at 3:27pm
Jan van der Zanden wrote:
Table 2: Cycle life as a function of

depth of discharge.* A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life, so does
a partial charge. Elevated temperature and high currents also affect cycle life.
Note: 100% DoD is a full cycle; 10% is very brief. Cycling in mid-state-of-charge would have
best longevity.
100% DoD ~300 / 600

80% DoD ~400 / 900
60% DoD ~600 / 1,500
40% DoD ~1,500 / 3,000
20% DoD ~1,500 / 9,000 IS THIS NOT AN ERROR? SHOULD BE 4.500 / 9.000???
10% DoD ~10,000 / 15,000
On May 29, 2018 at 4:07pm
Don Gillies wrote:
20% DoD ~1,500 / 9,000 IS THIS NOT AN ERROR? SHOULD BE 4.500 / 9.000???
I am guessing that the ‘1500 cycles’ should have been > 3750 cycles and < 4500 cycles,
giving 750-900 full-cycles of power from a battery that is cycled at 20% Depth of
Discharge (DoD).
On June 10, 2018 at 10:37am
Sam wrote:
Is it ok to buy an aftermarket device to lower charge Voltage on a laptop?
I’m trying to extend a battery life, but can’t work on a slow and dim PC. I don’t do games,
but run diagnostics and/or math related calculations, sometimes charts/graphs. If I were
to slow performance there is a lag in response.
Thanks.
viral lad wrote:
what is the weight of 1 cell in NMC based lithium ion battery
On July 18, 2018 at 11:59am
Yang wrote:
I have a question , i recently changed my battery but searched the battery discharged
cycles and it show 500 and a battery health of 93% , but it is a new battery , is that normal
?
On July 22, 2018 at 5:49pm
Jezzaaaa wrote:
Errata in the text relating to figure 7:
“If this were true, then a Li-ion battery cycled within 85%–25% SoC would fade to 74%
capacity after 14,000 cycles. If this battery were charged to 85% ...”
Changing the charge level from 85% to 85%?
The first “85%” should be “70%”, to be consistent with the graphs.

On July 25, 2018 at 9:41am
Jesse wrote:
Does this information apply to a 3.85 (nominal) li-po (OnePlus 6)? What I mean, does
going past 4.2 on it while charging have the same effect as going past 4.2 on a 3.6/3.7 li-
ion?
On July 25, 2018 at 10:19am
Jeremy wrote:
@Yang
That is normal, it is a new battery so it will have brand new set of cycles and 100% health.
The cycle count is only an estimate from charging 0-100% and not that accurate. Also
depends on the device.
@Jesse
Yes the information still applies, but voltage capacity is different. For a 3.85v battery, 4.4v
is at 100%. Doing the same for a 3.6/3.7v will drastically reduce cycle life. Reducing Depth-
of-Discharge and Charge Voltage still benefits the 3.85v battery.
Battery University goes into depth here:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/confusion_with_voltages
On July 27, 2018 at 7:28am
Vicente wrote:
To charge the battery exactly 80% and download it up to 40% as advised in the article I
recommend this Battery Limiter program, it is really useful, it allows you to configure those
percentages
http://www.robotonfire.com/bl/
On July 30, 2018 at 9:47pm
tOM_Trottier wrote:
More discussion at
https://www.androidauthority.com/maximize-battery-life-882395/
Mobile sentrix wrote:
if you’re really want to maintain your cell phone battery’s life, you should be charged your
cell phone around 80 percent in one go.
Francesc wrote:
Gracias por tan exhaustiva información, me ha servido para ampliar mis escasos
conocimientos sobre baterías de Litio
Keerthikrutha Seetharaman wrote:
Hi I want to use an ultimate lithium battery in a camera trap for 30-days continuously. How
long would it last?
Jim wrote:
As far as I can tell, the study cited for Figure 6 indicates that they use a constant charge
rate of 1C for recharging in the study, but most Li-Ion chargers use a tapered rate and
avoid 1C near 100% SoC. Doesn’t this mean that the curves ending in a 100% SoC are
unrealistically inflating the degradation of the batteries?
Also, this page and graph are cited a lot in the Electric Vehicle forums, but again the graph
is based on ambient temperature cycling (the study indicates that the legend only lists the
room temperature, not the cell temperature). Many of the newer EVs are coming with
active battery temperature management to fight the negative effects from the heat
generated from charging (something the Leaf models that had issues in warmer climates
lacked in the first iterations), so again, does the graph need a footnote indicating that it
may not apply to EVs with active cooling?
Sam wrote:
If I buy a lithium ion “new battery”(no named brand) that has a date stamped on it from
2016 should I use it in my Samsung cell phone?
I bought it on Amazon.
Mike wrote:
The articles here are great but getting answers on these discussions is even better. I just
wanted to say thanks to all who contribute!
Jason wrote:
Hey guys, just wondering in terms of preserving battery lifespan, is it better to keep a
lithium-ion device at 100% (using it while plugged in) or cycling it at 50%?
The reason I ask is because there is a device called a Nintendo Switch, which is a video
game console that can be plugged to a TV via a dock or taken on the go. The dock also
doubles as a charger. I understand keeping it between 80%-40% is probably ideal but for
this kind of device it isn’t really doable without large disruptions to the experience.
I like to hook it up the TV which means it’s usually at 100% for long periods of time but I
can start switching it between docked and handheld mode (to discharge to 50%, which is
as much micromanagement as I’m willing to do) if that’s ultimately much healthier for the
battery lifespan.
Thanks a lot!
Mike B. wrote:
As most of the posts here are in reference to smaller batteries and smaller voltages, I’m
not sure as anyone can help out, but here goes…..
I bought a 58v battery powered lawn mower on 12th May this year and have charged the
battery 6 times up until now ( 12th November ) but now it will not charge at all. There is
zero charge showing in the recharge window.
I have contacted the supplier of the mower and I’m told there is no warranty on
consumables i.e. the battery.
Surely this $158.00 battery is only fit for the tip? Can anyone suggest anything I can do to
bring it back to life? Thanks.
Akshara Malhotra wrote:
Great, thanks for sharing information about how mobile battery can be kept healthy. You
have really listed nice points to take care of the mobile battery life. From my side, I would
recommend not to use animated wallpapers which might eat not just the battery but also
the processor speed.
I would also suggest not to drain the battery to 0%. Everyone should apply charger when
battery get down to 5 or 10%.
Anyways, very nice article. Couple of points which I was not aware of are mentioned in
your post. Keep sharing and good luck.
mendip wrote:
in respond to Vortex :
i think you wrong in calculating ‘cycle and use’...

a cycle is from 0 to 100%, 10 to 110%, 20 to 120%... (100% capacity, not only from 0..)
(i.e charge the battery 10*10% is 1 cycle. (times*capacity percentage)
so all the charging method here giving the same amount of charge to use, but with
diffrence in life expentancy.
in respones to Hoon :
i have galaxy s7 edge in use also…

i have 63% capacity from a ‘full charge’ lol (~2250 mAh from 3600 mAh)
i didnt followed any advice (=didnt know..). charged to top, and drained to 0% lol
and in hot climate. i have it for 2 yrs and 2 month now.
Cassim Rahuman wrote:

For a battery of full capacity 40kWhr, if total number of (lifetime) Charge cycles obtainable
with a 75% – 50% charging regime is 4,000 and total number of (lifetime) Charge cycles
obtainable with a 75% – 25% charging regime is 1,800
The 75% - 50% regime gives a total energy for use during its lifetime [0.25 x 40 x 4,000 =
40,000 kWhr] compared to the 75% - 25% regime which gives an energy for use during its
lifetime of [0.5 x 40 x 1,800 = 36,000 kWhr].
Thus, the comparison should be between 40,000 kWhr & 36,000 kWhr and not between
4,000 cycles & 1,800 cycles.
The actual comparison can be made to reflect this if ‘weighted’ lifetime cycles are used
where: actual life cycle number is multiplied by the fraction of full (100%) charge of the
charge regime used. In the preceding case, ‘weighted’ lifetime cycle for the 75% - 50%
regime would be 0.25 x 4,000 = 1,000 cycles & for the regime of 75% - 25% the ‘weighted’
lifetime cycle would be 0.5 x 1,800 = 900 cycles.
Thus 1,000 compares with 900 and reflects the actual performance difference of 10% that
is applicable. Comparing 4,000 cycles with 1,800 cycles in not very meaningful as the
energies stored per cycle vastly differ.
await response
Michael White wrote:
Cassim makes a great point about kilowatt hours but let us talk practically speaking.
If you charged to 100% and down to 25% average roughly 600 cycles per year (that’s more
than 1.5 per day) - you’d only reduce your battery capacity 5% in THREE YEARS and that is
absolutely a worthwhile tradeoff to having 3 years with 15-20% less battery capacity with
you! If you can get one battery replacement after 1-2 years, your phone should last 5 years
charging to 100% and a much superior experience while you’re using the phone.
Finn wrote:
I liked it
Michael - I think the validity of your observation will also be graphically supported if the
graphs were based on the ‘weighted’ cycle lifespan that I proposed. I am hoping that by
and by, the weighted cycle lifespan will displace the presently used numerical cycle
lifespan.
Eske Rahn wrote:
I last visited this page back in 2011/2012, and see substantial changes in figure 1 and 2.
(Not photographic memory, copied numbers *LOL* eskerahn.dk?p=250 )
Is this due to newer batteries behaving very differently?
Back then the batteries went from 100 to 70% over their lifespan, and more interesting, the
estimated accumulated number of power cycles you would get (The product of the two
first columns of fig 2, integrated from 100% to 70%) showed a substantially better usage
at about 50% DoD vs 100% and 10%
With the current the usability is best at 20% resp 10% for NMC resp LiPO4
So is it today better to do small DoD? A handful of years ago it was clearly bad…
Steve wrote:
Something that I can’t help but wonder… But don’t see mention of… What I’d call
“microcycling”...
In the land of endless switching power supplies, we already know that the harsh transients
they produce (at both ends, supply and load sides), cause electrolytic caps to age at an
accelerated rate. And not every battery installation fits all nice and tidy into the
experiments listed in the article (which BTW is indeed very informative and
comprehensive for what it covers).
One example of this would be in a live UPS system where the battery may be exposed to
both charge and discharge spikes rapidly and repeatedly (function of charger, inverter,
and/or both)... “What constitutes a charge cycle” has long been a topic of debate… But
semantics aside, it would be illogical to think that batteries in certain equipment would not
be affected by the same forces that rapidly and radically reduce capacitors to leaking tin
cans…? Especially with all the corner cutting cheaper grade equipment that we are
swamped by in modern times.
Silvestre Martins wrote:
I have one question: if we limit the voltage to 4.10, then we can expect 85-90% of full
capacity available (Table 4). My question is: this is exactly the same as disconnecting the
device from the charger when it has reached the 85-90% capacity, right?
Edward wrote:
@ Silcestre Martins Yes , I think so. Do not fully charge and discharge the lithium cells
will prolong they lifecycle
Jeremy wrote:
Came across an interesting research paper published 2 years ago by researchers from the
Technical University of Munich. You can download the paper here:
http://mediatum.ub.tum.de/node?id=1355829
It is a very long read as it covers everything age-related to lithium-ion batteries like aging
processes, calendar and cycling aging, impact of charging methods and more from an EV
application perspective. They go into detail how they analyze the batteries and their
degradation, it goes beyond my level of understanding but it is very insightful.
On page 88/89 of the paper you have table 4 above this site projected to a graph. Their
findings is similar with what is shown on this website, although the cycles are lower since
they were discharging down to 2.5V. Their results show that you must compromise
between better battery longevity or a larger usable capacity in a battery. Unfortunately the
relative capacity of decreasing charge voltages does not intersect each other. In practical
terms, yes, you can charge from 20-80% and have a similar capacity after 1000 cycles, but
the usable capacity will always be less than if you did 20-100%. According to the study,
after 750 cycles of charging to 100%, the battery will always give you more run time than
750 cycles to 80%. This means the only benefit of reducing charging voltage is to avoid
the battery capacity from dropping over time, at the cost of usable capacity. Also, the
benefits of reduced charge voltage is negligible past 3.8V, or around 40-50%.
Depth of discharge also has a significant effect on cycle life. Reducing the depth of
discharge will give the battery a higher capacity over time more so than just reducing
charge voltage. Combined with reducing the charge voltage as well, capacity degradation
is substantially minimized. Batteries prefer resting at a low state of charge, where
stresses are its lowest. This lines up with Figure 6 above that shows 25-75% has a higher
capacity over time than 50-100%.
I also wanted to point out the results of cycle life on fast charging. Unfortunately in all
cases, any form of quick charging, whether by Tesla’s Supercharger or increased current at
initial charge, will always result in significantly reduced cycle life due to excessive lithium
plating and stresses on the battery.
To sum it up for optimal battery life, disable quick charge, charge as often as possible and
keep the percentage as close as you can to 40-50%. If you need a longer run time, charge
to a higher percentage then drain to 10% for maximum capacity at the cost of reduced life.
This minimizes the charge voltage for the extra depth of discharge you require.
I know this is a long comment but I hope people find this helpful.
Stanley Kawasaki wrote:
I just purchased a Makita 18 volt sub-compact Drill/Driver and impact drill kit. It came
with 2 2.0 mah batteries. I don’t intent to use the devices daily nor even monthly. I may
wind up maybe using them only 4 times a year at most as a week end warrior. So the
batteries will be sort of in (semi-)long term storage. I want to store the Li-Ion batteries at
the recommended “40 percent state-of-charge (SoC)”. I can’t find any reference as to what
voltage the 40 percent SoC should be for an 18 volt battery. I can only assume at this
point that they should be charged at more at than 18 volts. I just fully charged them and I
measured the voltage at 20.62 volts. I know the recommended SoC for a single 3.7 volt Li-
Ion battery cell is between 3.82~3.92 volt. I don’t know how many cells are in the 18 volt
battery pack. If I were to assume that they are 5 - 3.7 volt batteries connected in series,
should the 40% SoC be between 19.1~19.6 volts? Would someone please contact me and
let me know the correct 40% SoC is for my 18 volt Li-Ion battery pack. Until I confirm what
the 40% SoC should be for my 18 volt Li-Ion battery pack, I plan to fully charge them every
3 months. Thanks in advance.

Jonathan wrote:
heres what I am doing to prolong my android cell phone battery
1. Download GSAM on android. Figure out what charge percent is 3.92v/cell (on samsung
it is around 65%)
2. Buy a WeMo smart switch.
3. Download tasker. I made a IFTTT task to turn on my wemo switch when it hits 60%.
Turn off at 65%.
On March 30, 2019 at 11:41am
Callie Marie wrote:
Thanks for explaining how the capacity of a battery drops compared to the number of
cycles it has run through. I had no idea how significant this was until I saw it on the graph.
Maintaining and replacing batteries is more important than I thought.
Reza wrote:
I think there ais a big misunderstanding when we try to select the best choice for charging
cycle of our litium batteries. Based on figure 6 we can see in a glance that if someone can
use charging cycle between 75% to 65% he will reaches to longest lifetime but this is
incorrect! Why? Because he has to charge 5 times in comparison to other charging cycle
between 75% to 25% to get the same amount of energy from battery. It means that we
must compare capacity loss of first charging cycle after 7500 cycle with capacity loss of
second charging cycle fter 7500/5=1500 cycles. As you can see in both charging cycle the
caacity loss is the same and about 92%! So I think it is necessary that we have another
figure that shows the capacity loss vs delivered energy and shows how different charging
methodes behavior is different. I think maybe the best and realistic choice for best battery
care is using the 75% to 25% charging cycle. I appreciate this site especially if they add
mentioned figure to their very useful figures.
Thanks a lot.
RobF wrote:
For smartphones in 2019 there are two constraints. The battery can not be removed. The
phone must be on all the time.
Given a choice between leaving a phone plugged in for an extended period, which keeps it
charged at 100% and reduces the lifespan that way, and letting it discharge somewhat
before recharging somewhat over the same period, which increases its cycle count, it is
unclear which is worse.
Nandagopalan Venkataramanan wrote:
This question is with regards to a gaming laptop:
From my understanding, the battery life of the laptop can be prolonged by operating in the
sweet spot of 65-75% SOC as per figure 6. But because of reduced capacity at this range,
a more realistic and practical operating range would be between 25-75%. Which means I
should plug in the power cord when the battery power drops to below 20-30% and allow it
to charge upto 70-80% and then unplug and repeat the cycle. Is this the best practice to
prolong the battery life of a gaming laptop?
Thanks
On May 6, 2019 at 10:04pm
Tom Trottier wrote:
https://andrecheung.wordpress.com/2018/02/16/android-automatically-starts-and-stops-
charging-using-automateit-and-ifttt/ describes one way to use a smart plug to keep an
android phone charged “just right”
On May 22, 2019 at 1:17am
JD wrote:
Nandagopalan Venkataramanan:
You’ve understood it correctly.

My Lenovo T60 from 2006 still has about 2,5 hours battery time (original battery and never
changed!).
I set a profile to start charging when it drops below 70% and charges only to 90%.
On May 22, 2019 at 1:18am
JD wrote:
How can i determine a batteries capacity (how many % it is charged to)?

Is it by reading the voltage or is it more complex than that?
On May 28, 2019 at 6:14am
jason m wrote:
what makes the laptop to show that the battery is fully charged when it reaches at 60%
and stops charging at the same time?
On May 31, 2019 at 7:51am
Taylor Bishop wrote:
I wanted to thank you for this advice for lithium based batteries. It’s good to know that the
optimal charge voltage is about 3.92V/cell, because it’s believed this eliminates all voltage
related stresses. I’m interested to learn if this is the case for all batteries or only lithium
ones. http://www.batteryminders.com/aircraft-battery-chargers
John wrote:
Why is using or charging a Li battery below 40% bad?
I get that charging above 75% increases voltage to a level which is decreasing battery life.
But what happens when you use or charge below 40%? Why is it bad?
Thanks in advance!
Ovidiu Sandru wrote:
Google for “Chargie stick” (chargie.org). It will limit charging to 80 or 90% (or whatever you
wish) and your phone will last for many years to come, until its technology is really
obsolete. You won’t change phones because of the battery any longer.
On June 6, 2019 at 11:53pm
Anthony Cloak wrote:
The given article is very helpful for me to care for the laptop battery. Thanks for sharing.
On June 12, 2019 at 7:06am
Paula wrote:
I have a question concerning table 2. Are the two values in the discharge cycles column
reflecting a range for the value or are the values specific to the two battery types NMC and
LiPO4?
Also is LiPo4 equivalent to LiFePo4, mentioned in the following article LiFePo4:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion? (I was looking there to
find Information about the LiPo4 and NMC lifetime, but the tables there show the same
cycle life for LiFePo4 and NMC) Thanks!
On July 10, 2019 at 7:15am
Ria wrote:
I have two identical batteries for my Dell Latitude E6430 laptop, type T54FJ. On one of
them, when checking the BIOS information, there is an option under Power Management,
Primary Battery Charge Configuration, which says “Primarily AC Use” and then explains
that this option “Extends battery lifespan for users who primarily operate their system
while plugged into an external power source.”
The other battery, which to all external appearances is identical, does not show this option.
My question is (a) what does this option actually do (I can find no mention of it on Dell’s
website anywhere) and (b) why does one of two apparently identical batteries show this
option as available, while the other does not..?
On July 11, 2019 at 6:43am
Chad wrote:
@Ria,
If I had to guess, I’d say that
(a) one of your two batteries is not genuine OEM equipment, but perhaps a convincing
knock-off; or
(b) a microchip in one of them has malfunctioned, eliminating some smart behavior.
On July 17, 2019 at 6:39am
Ria wrote:
@ Chad
Hi Chad, thanks for the reply. I had thought of that, but the battery that *doesn’t* show the
AC charge option is a brand new and (as far as I can tell) genuine Dell one, while the one
that does show it was the one that came with the machine (bought from eBay and
therefore origin cannot be confirmed).
It’s not life-threateningly important at the end of the day, but it is curious.
Ria
saane wrote:
I have been charging my phone to 65% max and discharging to 25% max ever since
reading this article. Am I doing this right?
Bob Mayo wrote:
I have two 3.7v batteries that measure 4v but they need a charge since my drone ran them
down. I stored the drone and batteries for several weeks. Now I try to charge the batteries
but the charger shuts off after a few minutes and will not light up again even after
disconnecting the battery. I discovered that shorting the two battery leads (by accident)
‘resets’ the battery and the charger lights up again only to shut off in a few minutes. I
bought another USB wire charger but it does the same thing. I tried to discharge one
battery but it still reads 4v. The charger is putting out 5v. What is going on? Thanks.
. wrote:
Does anybody know the case for the Nintendo Switch? It must be charged to 100% no
matter what when it’s in the dock. So for a device that needs to be charged up to 100%,
what would be the best percent to discharge it to?
Mike wrote:
Try Chargie (chargie.org). It cuts off charging at your chosen level and protects any
Android phone from premature battery death.
. wrote:
Jeez, does anybody know how I would properly charge the Nintendo Switch? There are
literally 0 people giving answers about this. It’s pretty simple if you know this kind of stuff.
If I had no choice but to charge it to 100% every time, what percent should I discharge it
to? 90-100%? 85-100%? Come on, does anybody know?
G Moore wrote:
I am using high power LiFePO cells (Headway 38120HP 8Ah) in a cyclic application not for
their energy capability but for their power capability. These are used as a power buffer
between a charging capability that supports the average power and the application which
requires short bursts of up to 20C rate. In a cycle, 12% or less of the capacity is used and
then the charger replenishes the battery system before the next cycle. The charging
capability is under 1C. Both calendar and cycle life are important in this application. 10
years calendar lifetime and 10,000 of these shallow cycles are the goals. I know that
lithium-cobalt cells’ calendar and cycle lifetimes are enhanced by not fully charging the
cells. The information above suggests that shallow discharges greatly increase the
number of such cycles available. I have several questions. The first is do LiFePO cells
similarly benefit from not fully charging them, e.g., charge only to 80%? My second
question is can this be done with a simpler charging regime that would simply charge up
to and hold the cells individually at say 3.5 V instead of the fully charged voltage of 3.65 V,
i.e., float charging the cells to well below the usual termination voltage. Comments that
are not speculations but based on a strong understanding of battery physics are preferred.
G Moore wrote:
Second attempt to post this. Apologies if this duplicates.
I am using high power LiFePO cells (Headway 38120HP 8Ah) in a cyclic application not for
their energy capability but for their power capability. These are used as a power buffer
between a charging capability that supports the average power and the application which
requires short bursts of up to 20C rate. In a cycle, 12% or less of the capacity is used and
then the charger replenishes the battery system before the next cycle. The charging
capability is under 1C. Both calendar and cycle life are important in this application. 10
years calendar lifetime and 10,000 of these shallow cycles are the goals. I know that
lithium-cobalt cells’ calendar and cycle lifetimes are enhanced by not fully charging the
cells. The information above suggests that shallow discharges greatly increase the
number of such cycles available. I have several questions. The first is do LiFePO cells
similarly benefit from not fully charging them, e.g., charge only to 80%? My second
question is can this be done with a simpler charging regime that would simply charge up
to and hold the cells individually at say 3.5 V instead of the fully charged voltage of 3.65 V,
i.e., float charging the cells to well below the usual termination voltage. Comments that
are not speculations but based on a strong understanding of battery physics are preferred.
Fat Apparatchik wrote:
What’s the point in prolonging consumer Li-ion batteries when the devices they power are
technologically life constrained by their very own functions and features.
David Waller wrote:
I use a mobility scooter with a 11.5ah lithium battery. It’s now about 4 years old and used
app. twice a year for cruises. It lives in a cold garage when not in use and I keep it fully
charged. It still appears to perform as new. Any one know the likely life? i don’t want it to
fail when I’m abroad when finding a replacement could be tricky
George S Moore wrote:
David,
If your scooter uses lithium cobalt cells my understanding is this results in a loss of
calendar life even if not being used. Maybe 20% in 4 years. If after you sporadic use you
only partially recharged to 60-80%, that I am told will increase your calendar life
substantially. When you are doing a cruise, charge it to 100%. When done, store it partially
charged until needed for use next time.
David Waller wrote:
George, sorry not to have responded sooner but your email went into my junk box. Thanks
very much for the tips,,I shall follow your advice and enjoy my Caribbean cruise next
month with renewed confidence!
David
David,
Glad my comments were of use.
George
Along the line of maximizing lithium battery life, I have a question regarding best practices
for cell phones. I am commonly at my home for several days at a time. Is it better to leave
the phone on the charger at 100%, which increases the voltage stress on the battery, or let
it run off the battery and then try to recharge only to around say 80%? That runs coulombs
of current through the cell drawing on its cycle life. I don’t know which is worse, the
voltage stress of holding full charge or the cycle stress.
George
Jaime Diaz wrote:
My galaxy s6 battery has 2500 cycles and 73% capacity. Also I have a lithium battery for
my solar system with 7 months and using 25% - 85% SoC.
David Gordon wrote:
I have an HP EliteBook X360 at the office. I use it with a separate

monitor/keyboard/mouse. For power, it (and each of the externals) is plugged into a small
HP 120W Thunderbolt dock which in turn is plugged into the wall. So it is basically always
charged/charging.
I just bought an HP Spectre X360 15t for use at home. Before even hooking it up with the
monitor, etc., I’ve been setting it up. During that time, I tried the same thing—leaving it
always plugged into the AC adapter that came with it which I plugged into the wall. It
stopped charging yesterday. The icon read “plugged in” but it wouldn’t charge the laptop.
I spent some time with someone at HP Support who had seen this multiple times and told
me, no, I can’t do that. I have to charge it, unplug the adapter, let it run down (as I use it
every day), then recharge it with the adapter. He said I would need to do this even when I
use it in the same kind of setup I have at the office: separate monitor, keyboard, mouse. If
I don’t, he told me that the battery will overcharge—he said—and cause it (the charger) to
stop working. (Something about the overcharge turning into static which compromises
the adapter.) Plus I’ll damage the laptop’s battery.
I don’t understand. I’ve the office setup has worked successfully—where it is basically
always 95-100% charged—for months and months and months. Why can’t I leave the
Spectre plugged into the adapter/wall 24/7? Is it because there is a dock between the
outlet and the laptop at the office?
I have a much better understanding of lithium-ion batteries after reading this article (thank
you!) but I don’t understand my different experiences.
Richard wrote:
The HP Support person gave you a bunch of gobbledy-gook. To be safe, I plug in my laptop
to AC and then remove the battery with about 40% to 60% charge. If I need to go mobile, I
put the battery in and charge up to 80%.
Julio wrote:
Hopefully, I can get some guidance, here is my situation:

I have Tesla with 250 mi of range.
My drive is ~22 mi one way, which uses ~10% battery.
Which Scenarios is better?
To use 10% battery one way and re-charged both at home and work?
To use 20% battery two ways and recharged?
Charge at work at ~120v 5-6 mile per hour which is fine, because give me more than 10%
in the time that I am at work.
Charge at home at ~240v 0-32 Amps, is it better to do lower Amps? let say 15 Amps lower
or higher?
Charge at home is ~120v ~15 Amps, is it better or worst at ~240v at lower Amps?
Now for the battery range which charge is better base on 10% or 20% battery usage.
70% to 60% or 70% to 50%?
60% to 50% or 60% to 40%?
50% to 40% or 50% to 30%?
40% to 30% or lower.
Here is what I think I got from the article let me know if I am way off, charge at 120V, from
60% to 50% range, based on 10% usage or lower range is better?
Suggestions?
I hope I got my question across.
Fat Apparatchik wrote:
On most EVs especially Tesla the battery charge meter does not indicate the actual
charge of the battery but instead gives a consumer friendly optimised value. Charging EV
batteries to a real 100% when new is not good for them, instead what EV manufacturers
do is only allow them to be charged to 80% when new and indicate 100% on the car’s
display. As the battery ages and slowly loses it’s ability to hold charge then the car’s
computer slowly increments the maximum allowed charge but still reports that as 100%
on the car’s display. This gives the EV owner a better user experience. The same is also
done on some laptops and mobile phones.
The long and the short of it all is to just enjoy your Tesla and get an update when the
computer can no longer disguise the complex reality of EV battery management.
Tom wrote:
I think 50-60 x2 would be best & lowest amps that work.

But in winter, I suggest max amps finishing at 60 just before the drive to warm the
batteries up.
Tom wrote:
Newer laptops now have energy managers that regulate the charging and discharging of
their batteries. With my Lenovo, I have a manager that keeps the charge constant at about
60%, and I don’t know what that means in terms of voltage. I also keep the computer
attached to the ac power supply. With all that, I’m not too impressed at how well battery
capacity has held up in the last 6 years. But I rarely need to rely on the battery alone.
On May 6, 2020 at 12:37pm
David A. Waddell wrote:
At my work we deploy water quality testing devices that use 8 standard

AA batteries creating a 12 volt response when new. We appear to get around 2 weeks of
readings from one set of standard batteries. There device will slowly draw the batteries
down to 6 volts before shutting off. All batteries are then pretty dead.
In an effort to get more length of time in deployment, we switched to lithium metal

batteries. These batteries will give us three weeks with a very steep fall off on voltage in
the last few readings. But we have also noted that not all of the batteries drain at the same
rate. Some will still be at least 1.5 volts where others will be fully drained. I have noted this
in other uses (Christmas lights, remote cameras, etc.).
Is this normal for these types of batteries? Also the batteries that are still at 1.5 volts after
deployment appear to be erratic on their performance for continued use. some will run for
days again others maybe only a few hours. Any way to predict this?.
On July 1, 2020 at 11:01pm
Seth wrote:
How do I apply this 4.20volatge knowledge to portable power banks rechargeable via
either QC3.0 or PD3.0? Accepting PDO voltages of 5, 9, and 12?
Should I find a dumb USB charger at 5v 0.5 amps to recharge for days or maybe weeks to
fill 20,000mah?

Victor Vidal wrote:
Regarding the discrepancies between Table 2 and Figure 6, it’s common to read that
batteries usually perform better in lab tests that in real life analysis. The data in Figure 6 is
provided by a study that uses lab tests to measure the battery performance. Could we
assume that the data in Table 2 is from real use analysis? What is the source for the data
in Table 2?
On July 11, 2020 at 6:01pm
Eske Rahn wrote:
@Seth. It depends on what you mean by “should”. If you want to do the best you can to
prolong the overall battery-life of your powerbank, then yes. Slow charging, and avoid
charging to reach 30 degree Celcius.
BUT that might be so inconvenient for your usage pattern that it is worth shortening the
life span to charge faster/hottera. Only you can tell what is the optimum for you
Nabun wrote:
Agree with Eske Rahn 100%. It must to stop the charge at 4.2V, even if it delivers small
currents, like 0.5A. If the maximum capacity is not the most important, stop the charge at
3.8V, for longer lifetime of battery.
Imran wrote:
Came here to learn how to look after the battery on my new PS Vita.
Looks like I should stop charging at around 80% and charge it when it drops to about 20%?
Does that sound alright?
Mamuka Lela wrote:
I’ve been using the Chargie device to put a limit to my phone’s charging process and it has
so far going very well. Pity you need the hardware, but it’s the only way. Phones don’t allow
you do stop charging without some form of root.
sajjad wrote:
Hi,i have a application that similar to battery backup systems.I charge my Li-ion cell with
3.8 volt for example,the question is that for most longevity of battery,when the CV-charge
stage of charge is completed, keeping the CV- voltage on the battery in long term to avoid
reduction in capacity OR terminate the voltage and charger and charge it again if the
battery voltage drop down to a threshold voltage?Which one is better for better longevity?
Anthony wrote:
For what I’ve understood, from this article and some others online, you need to remain the
closest possible to 50% of battery.For exemple, I could charge my scooter every 2 days,
but I charge it 2 twice a day.My trip to the office takes 20% of battery, so I charge it until 60
% the night (50% + (20%/2))
Then I arrive at the office with 40% left (50% - (20%/2)), and charge it until 60 % during my
lunch pause.
I also try to charge it not immediately after using it, to let the battery cool down before.
Sufyan Arshad wrote:
What is NMC
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How To Prolong Lithium-Based Batteries - Battery University PDF

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Battery University

BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries

Battery research is focusing on lithium chemistries so much that one could

BU-415: How to Charge and When to Charge?

What Causes Lithium-ion to Age?

Evaluating battery life on counting cycles is not conclusive because a discharge

The performance of a battery is measured in capacity, a leading health indicator.

Table 2 estimates the number of discharge/charge cycles Li-ion can deliver at

Depth of Discharge cycles

Temperature 40% charge 100% charge

In terms of longevity, the optimal charge voltage is 3.92V/cell. Battery experts

Charge level * Available stored Table 4: Discharg

4.05 850–1,500 80–85% Note: Partial cha

3.90 2,400–4,000 60–65% * Similar life cyc

Experiment: Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden, reports that using a

Source: Choi et al. (2002)

Besides selecting the best-suited voltage thresholds for a given application, a

* Discrepancies exist between Table 2 and Figure 6 on cycle count. No clear

Figure 7: Sharp rise in internal resistance by increasing cycle depth of Li-ion.

Figure 8: Predictive modeling of battery life by extrapolation.

What Can the User Do?

Environmental conditions, not cycling alone, govern the longevity of lithium-ion

A laptop battery could be prolonged by lowering the charge voltage when

Last updated 2020-09-17

*** Please Read Regarding Comments ***

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The Battery and You

From Birth to Retirement

Amazing Value of a Battery

John Vanderkooy wrote:

On October 26, 2010 at 5:29pm

pamela knowler wrote:

On October 28, 2010 at 8:48am

Dennis Lackey wrote:

On October 28, 2010 at 3:59pm

Taurug Baca wrote:

What is 1C? What is a C?

On November 6, 2010 at 2:28am

Taurug Baca wrote: What is 1C? What is a C?

On November 13, 2010 at 3:38pm

On November 13, 2010 at 3:41pm

On November 16, 2010 at 6:01pm

Carlos Jordan wrote:

I really appreciate your technical info on Lithium-ion batteries. I recently purchased a

Thanking you kindly for your help.

On November 23, 2010 at 2:50pm

On November 24, 2010 at 11:21am

Patrick Woo wrote:

On November 29, 2010 at 2:51pm

“Frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible”

How are these recommendations compatible? It is really safe to *completely* discharge

On December 2, 2010 at 7:22am

Mehper C. Palavuzlar wrote:

Follow this question on SuperUser.com:

“Software to hold battery at 50% charge level”

On December 7, 2010 at 9:19pm

On December 17, 2010 at 9:09pm

On December 19, 2010 at 8:15pm

On December 24, 2010 at 7:30am

Carol Nemetz wrote:

On December 25, 2010 at 5:21pm

On December 28, 2010 at 3:47pm

* Please Read Regarding Comments *

How are these recommendations compatible? It is really safe to completely discharge