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    1963 Illustrated Weekly Interview by A S Raman PDF

    Uploaded by

    Hariharan S

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    © All Rights Reserved
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    of 5
    AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW {A TTVHIS is my fifth attempt at having 1 peaceful, uninterrupted meeting with Your Holiness." He makes ‘no comment He just smiles his usual smile “Thad the good fortune to spend near- ly forty-five minutes with Your Holiness during a specially arranged audience last week” No comment again. “On that ovcasion, Your Holiness had very graciously suggested that I might see you again ‘any day, any time." His Holiness says nothing but keeps smiling reaseuringly. “t have been coming to the camp since then. But till this afternoon I had, ro Tuck." Still no comment, “T have 2 few questions to ask. Have T Your Holiness’s permission?” “Of course.” He speaks at last and the JIanguage he uses, as on the earlier occa- sion, is chaste Telugu. “I have not forgot ten you. I am always available to those who have genuine doubts, An honest en- quiry interests me.” “Thank you, Sir. First question, What are Your Holiness's views on the religi- ‘ous basis for life in modern India? Are ‘we Indians not basically more materialis- tie than the Europeans and the Americans despite our preoceupation with rites and rituals?” He shows no visible interest in ‘my question. His indifference puzzles me, Is the question not properly framed? Does Ht sound irreverent? He stares at me in- triguingly but with transparent concern, “How many questions have I to an- swer in all?” he asks rather naively. “T am afraid the questionnaire I have prepared is on the heavy side, Tt may ‘make unwarranted demands on Your Holi- ness's time and patience.” “Doesn't matter. Go ahead, Read out all the questions first. Then you will have my replies which will be actually in the {orm of 2 composite statement—covering all your quenes.” I do as I am told, After reading ‘out the questionnaire, T wait impatiently for his reactions. But, once again, he keeps teasingly mum. His ‘eyes are closed and he wears ap expression of ennui. He how= ever continues to earess his crisp beard shsent-mindedly. There is a sudden flash on his face. His lips widen and a few words are uttered gently. T cannot hear them, T request him to repeat them, Adjusting his falling ochre robe and straightening. “Ce JIS HOLINESS BEING INTERVIBWED BY THE AUTHOR Sri Sankaracharya Speaks —2 by AS. RAMAN ‘himself up, he says: “How many days did it take you to prepare this question- naire? It is very elaborate. Let me st tempt to answer it” He speaks for about four hours with the consistent precision and percipience of ‘ tepasvin and at the end of his talk I dis- cover that all my queries have been ans- wered completely and convineingly. Hay- ing sorted out my questions and his obeery- ations, I present them in the following coherent form, ‘To my first question on the religious basis for life in modern India, Sti San- aracharya's answer is: “Religion can never cease to be a foree in our country, Superfically, we may be materialistic. But we are religious to the core. Even our politicians need religion for their secular purposes. You remember how cleverly Gandhifi employed religion for capturing the hesrts of the masses? In the name of religion, you can make our simple folk do anything. T hope you have not forgotten the cause for which mi of Hindus Iaid down their lives it lately after Partition. They pref death to humiliation. The commun’ that breke out as a result of the « ‘of our country had much great sip ficance than the religious persecution Medieval Europe. In Europe, one t* about individual martyrs. In India, fever the chellenge to religion came, it the common people who defended th, faith, not intellectuals or reformer want another proof of the religioy vour of the Hindus? ‘Try ~ Angust 18, 1969 surprise visit to any of our places of pil- ‘grimage on any day. Take some of your for- eign friends also with you. You will see 4 perpetual carnival. A similar spectacle awaits you on the banks of our sacred rivers throughout the year. You know how the prospect of a mere bath ean move millions in this country. The Kumbha Mela an continue to take place only in India. Religion has great mass appeal in our land even today in spite of our increasing in- terest in materialistic activities, It lies dor- mant In every one of us” ‘Question: By placing too much empha- sis on secularism and socialism our lead- ers are, in my opinion, sowing weeds of scepticism among our masses’ Don't you ‘think so? A sort of vacuum is being creat- cd in their lives. His Holiness: Our Governments, both Central and State, sre, I am afraid, not avowedly secular but aggressively so, where Hinduism is concerned. They are anxious to protect the interests of the re- ligious minorities, not those af the major- ity community, against whom all diseri- ‘inatory legislation in regard to marriage, divorce, succession, worship in temples and soon is directed, Even our family planning seems to be meant exclusively for the Hindus who have recently achiev- ‘ed 2 8% decrease in their numbers, Com- ppare this figure with the 9% increase in the Muslim population. ‘The Muslim popu- ation of Assam has been particularly on the increase. Frankly our legislators do not have the courage to alter the social or religious structure of the Muslims or the Christians. But they are always ready even to demolish the very base of Hindu- ism, Every Asian country has a state religion—Ceylon, Burma, Pakistan, Mala- ya. Only India bas none. ‘The secularism of our politicians is clearly directed against the Hindus who, being dangerously divid- ed, ack strength. They have no leadership, rho spokesmen. So who can force Parlia- ‘ment to adopt Hinduism as a state religion? ‘The Muslims, Christians, Parsis and other minorities are powerful because they are ‘well organised. Whenever the Hindus try to organise themselves, they are branded as communalists and their organisa- tions are banned. Thus the majority community remains irredeemably demo- ralised. So far as Hinduism is coneern- ed, our present rulers seem tobe 8 much greater impediment than the Bri- tish Viceroys ever were. Our leaders have a policy of appeasement for the religious minorities, and a policy of victimisation for the Hindus. I cannot understand them. Naturally, the influence of Hinduism on the lives of our masses is waning. But they can never forsake religion. Q: What, accordin to Your Holiness, is the justification for the existence of the ‘easte System? Does this dangerous ana- THE ILLUSTRATED WEEKLY OF INDIA cchronism lend itself to any reform or mo- ification? HLH: The caste system has its strengths as well as its weaknesses. It re- presents the world's oldest way of life and it remains well preserved to this day be- cause of its vitality. Selfishness is the root cause of the decline of all civilisations. For it leads to competition, encroachment, exploitation and eventually annihilation— the poor give way to the rich, the ignorant to the learned, the simple to the sophis- ticated, and the believer to the non-believ- fer. But the Hindu caste system, as ori- ginally conceived, encourages none of these disruptive tendencies. On the con- trary, it combats them most effectively. Otherwise it would not have been able *o survive the tempestuous ups and downs spread over a period of 5,000 years. Its Guiding principle is: “Live and let live.” ‘The emphasis is on creative cohesion and co-operative co-existence. Each part strengthens itself as much for its own sake as for the ultimate good of the whole— Hindu society. Unity through division: this is what we have achieved through the caste system. Naturally, even today, the ageless autre Contin as throught the “country. Language changes “from State to) State, sometimes fom -die- trict to district. But the Hindvs all over the country thare 2. common wey of life based on caste, and this has helped them in their spiritual evolution down the cen {ries The caste aystem=azaln in ies ori kinel form, 1 fepeat—inculeates the spit Of tolerance in’ every Hindu For each taste reece, rat wth the gabe bing of what righty Belongs to the other hue abe, bu withthe Preservation of lus own integrity “its swadherma, For ex ample, the Brelmon inay’ be" very poor But he has no evil designs on the riches of the Vaisya. Similarly, the Vaisys, however Wealthy he mav be, never aspifes to the throne of the Kshatrive. ‘The ingptation behind the greatest achievements In our religion, phifosophy, art and literature is to be traced to the caste system, But today the Hindu. caste system existe only. it form, not in spin Hence ine. confit, DBiiny whleh war once te si oars ofits strength, has become a dsintegrat- ing factor. ft has been the cause of com- Dertmentelisaion of most sinister Kind ‘The result is tragle- all the four castes are ‘nutually ‘not merely exclusive but dese tGuctive No_wonder that those outside the cate pete ae jan "they ean atlack each caste. separately, you see That is why even Brahmans provide such rich materiel for the Christian proselytt- Th the rast, the Brshman was the spiritual leader of the Hindus. Actually, the term then in vogue was Brahmanism, ot Hinduism. Nowadays those down the ladder of the caste system are eager to usurp spiritual leadership from the Brahe ‘man. Jealousy, arrogance and intolerance hhave begun to graw at the vitals of ever caste. The Brahman, the Vaisya, the Ksha~ friya and the Sudra: they are ail the time ‘engaged tn an invisible eivl war ‘The Brahman himself, if you ask me, is the main cause of the disintegration’ of the 25 oe caste system. For he no longer commands respect from the other castes. He docs not Inspire confidence in them. He is not at all competent to lead the ‘community on the spiritual plane Once he. symbolised pot only the Iowest rung of the economic Tadder but the summit of speitual and in {ellectuel achievement. He was. the epi fome of plain tiving and high thinking He was imiversally revered, despite his poverty. His absence, however brief, used fo be acutely felt in. his village. His outs had the Look and feel of 3 emite age. He lived in the most exemplary man= ‘er possible, because he knew that he was being watched by the whole world, Being the spiritual leader of the community. he ‘was always ready to make the maxcimsm Sacrifice in order to exert a healthy influ. fence on the other castes. But the presentalay Brahman has ye awareness ot be xeponsitcg fe “isnot qualified even’ to. preed the ideals pruclised by. his “ancestors It is difficult to. disunguish him from the Vaisye, the Kshatriva ox the Sudva, Naturally. those down the social ladder feel justified in agitating for equality with the Brahman.” ‘Thy wil all eventually dissect, not merely wistort, the caste sys tem beyond recognition, What is the remedy? Castele ness? Avery facile solution. The ant ote to "the ills of ‘the. ceste system lies within. the" structure’ itself’ ‘The Brahman alone cas. resuscitate the ine stitution ‘and restory it to its original splendour. “All that T hace to say to-hirm {ig this: “Live like a good #rahnan So that the other castes emulate your example See that they follow your virtues, not your roses Mind contr, Slfconta voluntary poverty: these are some of the sucr Meals cherished by your ancestors. Prac- {ise them as they did. It is only then that Yyou can inspire the other castes and thus achieve unity within the Hindu, fold Where spiritual values are concerned, he should Take no. concessions or compro. iises, whatever be the elreumstances, Of course, he has to. make geeatsactiices, People die for their country. Why should not the Brahman be prepared to die for his religion? It is time he realised that leadership has not only its rewards but its Fesponsibliies too. The Inberent strengta of the caste system lies in the Bratimess intel since an asidensh Cherise ow can we justify the exacting and elar Borate code of moral conduct that our re- ligion imposes on. him? ‘The Brahman alone ean save the situation. Q.: What is the method by which the present lost generation of Hindus can be Feclaimed in ‘terms of religion? sols He at ig most portant isthe ralsing of the morat slandards of the le In the absence of an inner urge thus Iofollow the path of virtue and sigsteous recy ll Jeplaon le tea foreman fivial and fnconsequential The children should. at school. and_at “home, recelve Moral instruction sn a form that males’ Powerful impact on their impressionable fninds. Training in meticine or eogineets ing ean fellow leer. Phe pupil's manners and morals should be tredied as Prionty Number One. When’ education’ becomes purposive and spiritually satisiying’ a it (Pleate Turn Over} With Hs Devorses Sri Sankaracharya Speaks cam, wes in my younger days, legal enactments for the social or moral reform of the people become unnecessary. The present tenden- cy, on the part of our rulers, to promote morals through legislation will result in chaotic, futile Acts which will only add to the ull of the statute bok and swell the Pockets of lawyers. In the past, moral textbooks used to be compulsory for stu- dents. Prizes used to be awarded for Pupils who did not steal, who did not dell lies and who followed the precepts of their elders, Nowadays the schools offer prizes for proficiency in subjects which have no influence on ‘the pupil's moral. develop ment. Career has Become more important than character and conduel. It is nece sary that the noble ideals expounded in our religious books and not Acts af Parliament should regulate the behaviour of our boys Q.: What is the place of rituals in the religious life of an individual? Do they, for example, have any influence on his sense of right and wrong? Is it imperative that he believe in Ged in order to be vir= ‘uous? Is a good man necessarily a reli= gious man? I'am particularly interested in Your Holiness's views on the relation be- tween religion and morality, between fear of God and love of humanity. ven dacoits and debauchees invoke the blessings of thelr favourite deities in order to be sue- ‘cessful in their anti-social ectivities, HL. Rituals of course are not essen- Sil for ones inner realisation. But then i ll depends on the spiritual stature of a Particular individual. It is desirable that the ordinary devotee observe all the pre- Setibed rituals as scrupulously as possi: ‘le For they enable him to achieve one- polotedness, it not anything vse, Concom tation, discipline, ‘willpower, austerity all thede. provide the necessaly base or one's spiritual experience,” Religion and tnorslity are not interdependent, the Buddha and Mahavira were non-believers, but they followed the path of virtue snd Fghteousness. Even within the Vedie fac Seyi alee e eaponen othe unkhya philosophy. The Sumikhyas were concerned more with karma than with the ggneept of God. Perfect morality 1 possi, Bie only when an individual hay an deat Before him, He surrenders himself tp that deal and then begina the transformation otis ie, God represents the conventional goal of one's inner struggle. There have been more saints in India than in any other country. Just think of the richness of our religious literature, Man cannnt serve as man’s ideal because of his impor fections. Naturally, he tums to a superior force in the interests of his moral uplift and spiritual advancement, The Buddha Breached the ideal of Ahimsa whieh, in tect, replaced God. But what do we'see in all Buddhist countries today? Nonsveger {arlniom Sts most disagreeable forms le People there perhaps do-not slaughter animals, because they wish to observe the Jaw of Ahimsa in letter, if not in spirit But they can import butchers from our East Coast, you see. Without a perfect ideal be fore him, such as God, man cannot achieve ioral perfection. For a nation, if not foF an individual, Cod as an ideal is absolute- |y necessary. “T3e two tyes of anti-social characters you mention are like sentday Buddhists. For the regults hat follow an individual's failure in his 3 tual struggle, we have to blame, not the” ‘deal betore him, but his own human im perfections. .: What will be, according to Your Holiness, the impact of the recent specta cular achievements of selence on man's faith in religion? HH: Science and spirituality are ‘coming closer together. Taday the scien. tist maintains that all matter can be re duced to energy which Teall Parasokti, He thus finds himself unconseiously in the company of Advattins. His convietion that energy is the absolute power despite the multiplicity of its manifestations such as hest, cleetricity, and s0 on is" bound to lead him to Sankara’s religio-philoso- phy. The perceiver-—that is, the soul—end the pereeivable will eventually. become one, Science in its destructive aspect 1s of course a different matter, Q: Do you think there will be an- other World War? What are your sugges. tons regarding the preservation of peace? How can the ever-deepening racial. and Feligious antagonisms (White vs. Black, Arab vs, Jew, Hindu ve, Muslim, ete) be checked? A. Tam nota prophet. But perhaps I need not be one to sey that the Third World War wil be the lst World War For aller thi, there will be neither any world [eft nor’ wars. Thanks 0 helt nachos scroamenis race, neither Russia nor Amor, ica will be rash enough to destroy each ather and the world, fhe nett wae, ver breaks out, will not last more tha {wo davs. Love. tolerance, understanding: a, spirit of compromise: these, ingplring ideals must provide the basis for whatever decisions a particular national goverammast takes vi'e'vs other ‘countries “Phen a essing of tensions will inevitably folow Sand the prospects of world peace brightes @: What is Your Holiness's opinion about the present tendeney among the tem. ple trustees to desecrate temples in the ame of renovation? By painting gop. Fams and whitewashing the stone: pillars, Fich in sculptural detail, they are not pro» longing the life of the temple. On the con: trary, they are making it look cheap and undignified. The serenity, the solemnity and the sanctity that age imparts to ous Great shrines are being sacrificed at the sitar of so-called renovation. The “Sudais on our’ gopurams painted in garish colours look like “Kolu". They lack the dignity of the mutilated figures whieh they hhave replaced. HH: [ agree-with you. I could not have expressed myself on this subject as forcefully as you have done. A tempie need not be attractive, But it should re. ‘main authentic under all circumstances, Its original grandeur should be preserved by our renovators. Tt is not enough that our temple trustees have faith. ‘They. should also have taste. August 18, 1963, “

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