Interview with Yasunao Tone

http://www.luckykitchen.com/tliyl/spring02/essay/ytone.html

Born in Tokyo in 1935 and resident of New York, the exFluxus Yasuao Tone may be considered
the inventor of CD scratch. His first scratches, in 1985, came long before projects such as Oval,
Discmen, Rik Rue, Dat Politics, Kid 606, Rehberg and Bauer, Javier Hernando, Achim
Wollscheid, Disc, LSR, Nobukazu Takemura, Curd Duca, Terre Thaemlitz, Robert Poss, Susan
Stenger, Neina, V/Vm, Denis Blackham, Stock Hausen & Walkman or Otomo Yoshihide saw the
light of day. The recent list has grown considerably, thanks to the fascination of the new
generations for predictable errors. Yasunao Tone, however, follows his own path from his
limited editions and performances, of which his recent collaborations with Mego (the
phenomenal remix of Hecker) and Alku (on a compilation tribute to the inventor of the CD) are
the highlights. Although at the moment, the manipulation of formats as the sound source seems
an old story, his discourse continues to be fresh and surprising: raw, aggressive, unexpected
and noisy to kill.

by ana+roc

Alku
http://personal.ilimit.es/principio

Q: Even though you began your experiments with CDs earlier, the 90s played a crucial role in
the development of the new scratching technique. Behind the imposition of the CD as the new
standard, some artists saw the opportunity to question the format. Partially, in the 90s, the new
producers of electronic music established themselves as an alternative to the rigidity of the
academy. Both events placed you in a privileged place. Can you evaluate the 90s from this
perspective?

A: In the nineties, we experienced a certain upheaval, which is a secession of art from western
classical music. Western music as we knew ceased to develop any longer. It lost its critical
functions, by which a work constantly changed form and deconstructed music itself. But instead,
western classical music became a part of the institutions such as academy, conservatories,
opera houses, orchestras. Though they are not art music but nothing different from mainstream
music such as music in the hit charts. In this vacuum, club music has evolved as electronic /
experimental music. More precisely, we started seeing history as past tense, not as progressive
tense as we did before, this is the way commonly called postmodern. As a result, it seems to me
that the younger generation perceived that everything happened before they existed and
everything in history is the same temporal distance. That is why they think Stockhausen and
Theremin look contemporary. The coexisting sense of belatedness and appropriation of older
work of somebody else are only different sides of the same coin. Another aspect of the nineties
would be a democratization of technical means for recording/generating sound by development
of technology, which brings about awareness of a new art form, sound art. It marked new
generation of musicians appearances.

Q: How did you get interested in CDs as a tool more than a playback medium? Were you aware
of the work with vinyl done by Christian Marclay and others?

A: I was not satisfied with recording because it presupposes to repeat the same sound over and
over. I've been experimenting with pieces that are multipliable and non-repetitive, such as
"Molecular Music"(1982), which utilizes film projection on the screen with light sensors. Then,
after that, I was preparing my concert at roulette in 1985 and I found a Japanese science book
for lay people. The book has a chapter on digital recording, which gave me a regimental
knowledge on digital recordings. But I was intrigued by the author's remark in the chapter saying
that "digital recording is a wonderful audio device since it has almost no noise and produces
sound very faithful to the original. However, when it minreads 1 with 0, of the binary codes, it
makes very strange sounds due to the binary code becoming a totally different numerical value.
So, the digital system has an error-correcting program built in lest that happen". I researched
the way to override the error-correcting system. If I succeeded I could create a totally new piece
out of a ready-made music. A friend of mine suggested to make many pinholes on bits of scotch
tape and to stick on the CD. Some try and errors and I succeed to create sound unheard of
before. My first use of prepared CDs was music for choreographer Kay Nishikawa's dance suite
"Techno-eden". I gave her a recording of a collage of prepared CDs in October or November in
1985. She did "Techno eden" in January 1986 at St. Marks Church in New York. Then a couple
of months later I had a public performance of the prepared CDs at my own concert at the
Experimental Intermedia Foundation in New York, in march 1986. The piece became
immediately known because among the audience there was John Cage who not only applauded
the piece but came to shake my hand no sooner than I finished the performance. Of course the
attendance of the concert was limited, mostly composers and artists, since experimental music
didn't appeal to masses. I don't consider that vinyl manipulation has anything to do with my
prepared CDs except in a metaphorical sense. There are enormous conceptual gaps between
me and Marclay. He sees and reads sound on grooves and by scratching or cracking he is able
to predict what kind of sound will come out and constructs everything before hand. In other
words his approach is not so different from classical musicians or jazz musicians, namely, he
represents his idea of music into sound, so, the representative consciousness from which he is
operating is crucial for him. And meanwhile, mine is totally unpredictable and uncontrollable.

Q: In your opinion, what is the very origin of this genre?

A: Previous answers tells you such a question is meaningless. But if you still think of the
similarity, of course, vinyl was a much older medium than the CD... But why would you bring up
the origin? I think the word origin is as dirty as virgin. I hate both.

Q: Have you also been interested in manipulating other music playback mediums such as vinyl,
MDs, Dats, etc?

A: No, I don't think so. Because other media are impractical and less interesting.

Q: There are two more or less clear tendencies in the use of turntables/discs as an instrument:
a more conceptual branch (in which I guess you are operating from) and the more
plunderphonic one, much more focused in collage, the copyright issue and so on. Please
comment that. And what's your point of view on copyright by the way?

A: Although I am heavily based on the conceptual, I appropriated other musicians' sound also,
especially when I started. Back then the only available CDs were somebody else's. I don't
particularly want to protect copyright. Specifically when digital media involved old fashioned
understanding of reproduction: it is irrelevant already. But appropriation of other musician's
sound can not be a political statement in the same reason.

Q: CD manipulation did not become so popular until the glitchy bandwagon came to the so
called noise scene. Do you know of other early cases of CD manipulation?

A: I was told there are some musicians following me but I never mind that. After my concert in
1986 David Weinstein followed suit and probably in 1988 Nic Collins showed me how to control
the CD player. He took off the control board from the CD player, the hardware part... I don't like
Oval, because it is apparent that they don't consider the core idea of prepared CDs as true
performance medium.

Q: Most of the well-known CDists come from an older generation, do you think that there is a
different approach from the newer generations (Discmen, I-sound, the glitchy generation)?
Why?

A: I'm 66 now... But how old is older generation? I don't pay attention to the late comers. I am
always looking forward, never look back.
Q: In experimental music there has been always a tendency to use errors and chance as a part
of the composition method but nowadays it looks as if it was more than a tendency, but a trend.
Do you know what we mean? Can you comment on this?

A: That's my job's description. But I don't like it as trend. Errors and chances have to be beyond
your consciousness and imagination otherwise they become mere effects. But some people use
errors and chance as a tool and effects, which I don't like. It should be a step for big leaps from
mere intention. In addition, errors and chance are antidote to rigid formalism and method-
centrism. If you rely on a method or being very formalistic you end up as mediocre. So
formalism and mediocrity are the same.

Q: Although it's an old thing, the glitchy and clics and cut procedure is a really relevant tendency
of the nineties. From your point of view is there an explanation (social, technical, political) why it
had to happen then?

A: My comment is don't ask why. I think the fetish part of the tendency is infantile and
objectification of your consciousness. I have avoided that all the time.

Q: We have the impression that your approach is closer to the academy than to hip-hop.
However there's a humorous touch (via the physical manipulation...) which gives it a human
touch. Can you comment on that?

A: If there is such a dichotomy, I don't know, probably I am closer to the academy but I try not to
have contact with any of them first of all because they are so boring. Secondly, because they
are not able to think as somebody creating art.

Q: It is very clear that the advances in technology during the last five years have been crucial for
the improvement of both video and audio experimentation. Would you agree? How do you
perceive that? Do you think that sometimes the advances on electronic music are too linked
with technology advances? Why?

A: Technical advances may or may not affect the artistic experimentation, it depends on how
people get a totally new idea through new technology and widen the way of thinking by it. If
electronic music is too linked with technology it's not art anymore but simply a technology. I
found it very annoying that many musicians using same program such as Supercollider or
whatever and produce the same sound.

Q: What about the relationship between this kind of music and politics? it's not hard to find
artists/collectives/labels quite focused on sociopolitical aspects (Terre Thaemlitz, Ultra-red,
Rtmark, Eusocial, Etoy, John Oswald, Touch...). Is your way of approaching art and music a
political approach? Can you explain that?

A: My approach would be to deconstruct previous form, because that's the only critical function
art can do. It is not radical politically but you don't expect artists to do the political. Without
political action in real politics nobody is effectively political.

This Land is Your Land

Alku
http://personal.ilimit.es/principio

aaland@luckykitchen.com

Spain 2002