Recording 1

Made by: Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba

Recorded with: Smartphone, Samsung S7
Date: June 16th 2019
Place: Mbeza
Occasion: Lubeta of late Bright Luu Nalubamba
Chaired by Joseph Mwanambulo & Cephas (?)
With brief narrations and/or translations from Lundwe/Ila into English by Mutenguna
Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba.

00:03 Opening prayer

01:08 Opening remarks

02:17 Listing of late chief's Estate and creditors

18:18 Call for gathering/small meeting "in the West", customary meeting point for discussion of
important matters by 'committees'

19:28 Showing of children of the late chief to the assembled, introduced as a group, not
individually, 'in the interest of time'.

26:11 Jambe/Nakachila gets up to speak. Greets everyone and introduces himself as coming
from Bweengwa. "At this time I am Chimama. I am Maninga. I am Heetengana. All who are
seated on this side know these things. These people know me. Thank you all, brethren, all of
you who are here… The name of my son, I will eat it (inherit it). But now, we've grown old, my
fellow men, (our) eyes don't see… So I've considered and decided that the name of my son, I
submit/am soft. I will give it to my son, Daban Shimumbo (King Nalubamba's other names).
Come here, man (mulombwana).

27:53 Jambe gives all late Bright Nalubamba's "loads"/"titles", which he has just claimed, to
King, addressing him directly: "Father, I give you all the loads. We are old. All the loads that your
father had, take them." "I am done, brethren."

28:48 Someone asks for clarification on King's being given all the names, including names he
knew the chief to bear, in a single bundle: "Have you put them all together?"

29:06 Jambe answers: "That question is for the whole family when you leave here. The family
needs to sit."

Murmurs of disagreement. Some clearly say, "No."

29:26 Male voice: "He has made a mistake there."

Jambe continues: "I…"

29:28 Female voice (surprised): "The whole load (mukuli)?"

29:29 Jambe: "... have given all of those, of the Nakachilas, and all the loads that the old man
had and that we knew he had. But those questions are not for us (me). The family will sit and
decide what it will decide. If you agree, you agree."

29:52 Chair asks if all have heard. Confirms that certain named individuals have heard what
has been said.

30:39 Man questions the way things are proceeding.

30:55 Someone comments, "He is right. Totally."

31:05 Man continues, asking different parties who have been involved so far, "Have you
finished?" He gets the answer, "Yes, we have finished."

31:07 Same man asks: "Should I save you?"

31:18 Observing breached custom, after getting another confirmation that they are done, the
man says, "It's fine. We have just let you know that."

31:23 Male voice: "He is right."

31:32 Man again: "I've stood up. The bayuni are done."

Joseph/Cephas: "Who has given you the floor?"

31:39 Pawsen Munamooya comments: "Well he's putting up his hand (to speak)"

31:42 "I have not pointed at you…"

An argument breaks out on the floor. Inaudible.

31:46 Woman's voice (commenting) "But you've said you've finished."

31:49 Man speaking loud enough for all to hear: "… you're going to confuse (these) people's
village/home."

Comments being made by nearby people on the impropriety of inserting oneself where one
does not belong.

31:59 Male voice shouting out: "You are just getting into things without knowing.."
32:24 Chairman moves the meeting forward, asking for people to continue making contributions
because 'the mourning isn't over'. "We will record them."

32:53 An old man objects passionately.

33:32 Chairman speaks against queries being brought up. "If they have said 'We've reached the
end', let us end there. Don't try to make yourself look wise. Let us remain at the level we have
been put at. Allow us to mourn, ye people. Father, start reading." (Applause)

Meeting proceeds with invitation to send notes through with pledges. Floor is given to someone.

34:12 After saying he's heard everything that has been said very clearly he says the one thing
he is not clear about is that of the family sitting again. "Are you saying that the names of father
Mwachisowa, and of Daban, and of Songola and the one that was of ushe (father of others)
Kapobola (all of which Bright Nalubamba had 'eaten'), you have put them all together here?"

34:31 Jambe emphatically says, "Yes, we have put them all together here, which is why I said
'I've anointed you with the whole load (mukuli) that the old man had, take it'; Whoever wants
something (of or from the whole 'load' given to King) can come after it later. Not here at all. Not
here at all!" (Some applause)

34:48 Murmurs at impropriety, with some among Bana Mwami saying, "No. No."

The Chair moves the meeting forward. Reading of list about to begin.

35:11 Objections to the reading of list of contributors and contributions for the funeral, as
previous matters raised have not been clarified. Loudest objections made by Mukamadede
Munamooya and Godfrey Munamooya, who calls out, "Chairman!" a number of times. Both of
them are totally and completely ignored.

35:23 Ignoring calls to not do it, Monday starts reading the list of contributors and contributions.
After many objections and corrections, he asks for pardon for any omissions as he ends.

54:27 Someone gets up to speak for/concerning contributions of headmen towards the funeral,
etc.

56:02 Ribo Kazoka (Headman) takes the floor to follow up.

57:15 Ribo Kazoka exposes the real intention of the day's earlier vagueness in expression by
Jambe by adding, like an afterthought, "And on another note, Thank you for giving us a Chief,
let the chief come and join us here." (King Nalubamba rises and proceeds as invited)
57:20 Mukamadede Munamooya (2nd Defendant) immediately reacts in surprise, "Ah ah" amid
other muted disapprovals among the Bana mwami. "Che!" (Expression of disgust)

57:28 Someone observes, "He's been anointed."

57:37 Some applause from a few on King's side

Comments from observers on bana mwami side, talking amongst themselves.

58:20 Mukamadede repeatedly tries to call out to Cephas, co-chair with Joseph Mwanambulo
so she can address the impropriety of it all. She is completely ignored by the chairman/
chairmen.

58:38 Someone observes, "They don't want (to pay attention or give the floor to anyone with a
different mind)".

58:47 Mukamadede continues to call out to Cephas, still being utterly ignored, while on the
other side applause gets louder as the late Chief's Retainer salutes King.

58:58 Mukamadede shouts out, (translated) "No. Listen to me! Listen to me. Look here." She is
still ignored.

59:00 Mukamadede continues, "Cephas, you all listen to me as well," with comments being
made around her about how the chairs are just not even looking towards the objectors. Chair
continues to ignore the quarter of the Bana Mwami.

59:13 Someone suggests she go up to him and hold him to get his attention because "He won't
turn to look at you."

59:24 Someone observes, "I see now that this is what they were fighting for."

59:32 Mukamadede observes, speaking to Bana Mwami, "You all have been anointed by Bayuni
(a distinct clan outside of Bana Munyati, which makes up the Mbeza Royal Establishment)."

59:40 She shouts, asking the Bana Mwami rhetorical questions:

"Are we anointed by the Bayuni?"
One answers, "No"
She asks, "Is this village for the Bayuni?" Voices answer "No!"
She asks again, "Is this village for the Bayuni?" Again voices answer, "No!" "It is not for the
Bayuni at all!"

59:52 Mukamadede continues shouting: "The chieftaincy is ours. They have no authority to
anoint our child. We are the ones who would anoint him. We, the owners."
She goes on, "Is he theirs? ... Is Nalubamba theirs?"
"He is not theirs," comes an answer.

1:00:11 Someone asks who gave the Bayuni authority to pick a child "to rule over us"?
Emphasizes "A child should rule over us?"

1:00:18 He comments, "We will fight"

1:00:22 Godfrey Munamooya (Plaintiff) calms him and says, "Let the elders speak"
Another voice tells the upset family member, "Calm down. Calm down."

1:00:34 Godfrey Munamooya: "A person from Bweengwa is not able to anoint us."

1:00:47 Mukamadede is despondent, "He has anointed him. He has anointed him. They've
stood him up. There's nothing you're saying here. What you're saying is foolishness/ pointless."

Mukamadede continues, "We are not Bayuni, No! This is Nalubamba's place. It's Nalubamba.
My grandfather Nalubamba. We are the ones who are supposed to anoint a son of ours. Even
though we are few, it (the seat) is ours. They only go so far as Kaani.* Not that the Bayuni can
anoint our chieftaincy."

A lady nearby interrupts Mukamadede, "Bana Dede, He has heard" Hopefully adding, "They'll
tell us".

1:01:02 Men begin to get upset but exercise restraint.

1:01:31 Mukamadede says, "If we die, we die. I'm dead already. Bright is dead already."
She goes on: "They're conspiring. They don't get their relatives from their father's side and say,
'We're asking for your child' 'The child that we're asking for is so and so. How is he?' They take
him and give him, saying all the names are his. What's that? This is Chooye's place, the father
of my grandfather Nalubamba."

1:02:11 Judge Chiimbwe (Plaintiff and Ngambela of the Mbeza Royal Establishment) takes the
floor, giving due respect to everyone gathered and the family as a whole and talks of the
chiefdom and how no one is supposed to bring division in the chiefdom.

1:02:32 Judge Chiimbwe speaks, "The one you have given (the chieftaincy to) is my son... but
you haven't done things the way they are supposed to be done."

1:02:44 "I am the eldest among the bana mwami... I should have been consulted. The Bayuni
should have asked me."

1:02:59 Judge Chiimbwe continues, "Have the Bayuni got the right to give a chief? Who gave
them the authority to anoint a chief? Who gave them a son (of ours) that they should anoint him
to the chieftaincy?"
Woman chimes in, "Who gave them?"
Others add, "Let them answer." "Let them point them out."

Judge Chiimbwe continues speaking, parts inaudible

1:03:25 "Bana Mwami are here... There are Bana Mwami here... We should have been
consulted, not being driven (by them, as is being done)..."
He then speaks of the start of the chieftaincy; How it started with his grandfather Muuluka. He's
the one who made this chiefdom. He asks, "Do Bayuni 'reach' there?" Mixed voices answer,
"No, they don't"

1:03:51 Judge Chiimbwe continues, "Do Bayuni anoint this chieftaincy?" Voices answer "No!"

The Bana Mwami express their upset as Judge Chiimbwe continues speaking amid comments
from the bana mwami, making Judge Chiimbwe inaudible.

1:04:00 Woman calls out, "it's taboo"

1:04:07 Confusion breaks out as Bana Mwami clash with Bayuni and King's supporters; King,
headmen and brothers flee for safety.

1:08:56 Godfrey Munamooya angrily stating that he had told everyone not to trust Joseph
Mwanambulo (who had been woken up to be called into a meeting the night before, in which the
family had decided to not proceed with succession on this day) and that Ribo should not be
allowed to speak. Some affirm having heard him say these things.

The Bana Mwami continue speaking amongst themselves.

1:09:46 Sound Recorder, Mutenguna Nalubamba walks off.

Recording 2

Made by: Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba

Recorded with: Smartphone, Samsung S7
Date: August 18th 2019
Place: Mbeza
Occasion: Part of proceedings during day of selection of the chief.
Chaired by Joseph Mwanambulo
With brief narrations and/or translations from Lundwe/Ila into English by Mutenguna
Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba.
00:00 Recording starts and we pick up events when someone is trying to speak for Muchemba
Hakoola and explain some technicality on how he qualifies to stand as a mukwashi after his
'credentials' were questioned by the elders, and he was asked to go aside and meet with the
elder mukwashi Jacob Shamwachili before the announcement of a name. Makes reference to "
… judging each other" and " … the family of Loolona.."

00:08 Someone shouts, "He should not speak for you!"

00:16 Someone is protesting about being harassed by a policeman who was trying to separate
him from the group of Bana Mwami/elders, "I'm fine here where I am! I am fine here!" He then
shouts, "You policeman!" (00:18)

00:20 James Chimbozi (Witness for Plantiffs) speaks, "Officer, Discipline those on that side as
well", referring to the biased way in which police were dealing with his side. They seemed
focused on suppressing the voices of dissent, not dealing with the rabblerousing supporters of
King, many of whom were drunk.

00:22 Dissent and unrest

00:26 Voice addressing police, "And those on that side, you're not keeping them in check."

00:28 James Chimbozi again, "And those on that side, discipline them too."

00:30 Another voice also talking to the police, "Go and tell those people first ". Someone chimes
in, "We are the same people ", i.e the same family.

00:37 Male voice: "They're only focused on us here."

00:43 Police Officer in Charge speaks, advising dissenters, "Don't talk too much" and goes on to
advise them to let the other side speak and then speak (01:08). When someone points out that
they (dissenters) are not being given a chance to talk, he says "I will tell them" (01:19).

01:51 Joseph Mwanambulo (3rd Defendant) speaking: " From the ones who give, there was a
person who was given (to name or anoint the chief)... Now those who are fighting that they
should give (the bana ba balombwana and official mukwashi), Those are going to tell him
(referring to Muchemba Hakoola, their handpicked 'anointer'), 'Stand up and give (the name).'

PARAPHRASE: The people with authority to give someone a right to give the name of the new
chief have assigned that responsibility to someone. All that the ones who are fighting to give
the name (the elders) have to do is tell that person, "Stand up and announce the name".

02:00 Elders protest breaking of custom immediately, stating that that is not how things are
done, exclaiming, "Mbo!", which is an emphatic denial, while youngsters and supporters of King
clap in the background.
02:08 Elder male voice: "Before we know (who it is)?" Pawsen Munamooya (Plaintiff) adds, "No!
We don't know (who it is)". James Chimbozi shouts, "No! Where did he get that (idea) from?"
(02:13) "They should not drag us along again" (02:15)

02:20 James Chimbozi calling out, "Mwanambuya, Mwanambuya, Leave that person alone",
addressing a policeman who is harrassing one of the dissenters. "Were you given money (to be
against us)?"

02:27 Another voice urging the policeman, "Leave him alone".

02:29 James Chimbozi complains that his side is not being given a chance to speak and how
those on the other side are not being disciplined.

02:33 Male voice: "Let José (Joseph Mwanambulo) be removed from there. He's the one who is
advising them (wrongly)."

02:44 James Chimbozi: "(With the way things are going) It cannot be concluded. No, it cannot
be finished."

02:50 Pawsen Munamooya: "These people are not (working) with us. Where are the 10
minutes?" (Referring to a request that had been made for King's "mukwashi" to confer with the
known mukwashi Jacob before any announcement of a name is made at which time they were
told they would get their 10 minutes)

02:56 Chair of the meeting drawing people's attention for announcement of name amid
continued protestations by bana ba balombwana/Bana Mwami.

03:07 Muchemba Hakoola begins speaking, addressing protocol first.

03:26 Muchemba Hakoola: "By the authority given to me by the family... and the (inaudible) that
I have been given..."

03:34 Pawsen Munamooya: "Whose family, now?" Others of the Bana Mwami call out, "Whose
family?" They are ignored.

03:38 Pawsen Munamooya: "Whose family? We (the Nalubamba family) are complaining". Bana
Mwami continue protesting loudly. They are utterly ignored.

03:42 Male voice: "Jacob should make a point of order."

03:44 Pawsen Munamooya shouting: "We are complaining! Whose family? We are
complaining!" Their voices are still ignored by the chairman, Joseph Mwanambulo and by
Muchemba Hakoola, who is holding the floor at this time and continues to speak.
03:47 Simultaneously, clapping is heard in the background.

03:51 Someone is heard saying "They have already announced (the name)."

03:52 Loud Cheering

03:55 Someone encourages Jacob Shamwachili to step up and make an anointing himself.
Another says, "It has already been done."

04:03 Male voice: "No. It was a point of order."

04:12 James Chimbozi encouraging Jacob Shamwachili, as known mukwashi, to take the floor;
to move to the middle, in the hope of saving the situation by anointing Judge Chiimbwe. He
does.

04:21 As a crowd unfamiliar with the butchery of custom that has just occured jubilate over
King's selection, voices among the Elders/Bana Mwami are still heard to say, "No! No!"

06:08 Female voice: "Don't try. Don't try. It's not worth it", as plaintiff Mutenguna Franklin
Mukakanga Nalubamba is trying to lead plaintiff Judge Chiimbwe into the house of initiation as
officially selected chief by the known mukwashi but is blocked.

06:28 Sound recording plaintiff Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba walks in on ongoing
conversation between Ministry of Chiefs officers and concerned family members.

06:29 Mr Chipeta (Ministry of Chiefs Southern Province): "We don't come in. It's a family issue."
Others of his party chime in. Young family members plead with them for intervention; for Ministry
of Chiefs officials to mediate, to "Bring us together"

06:38 Mr Chipeta: "At this stage it's difficult for us to come in because we don't want to be cited."

06:45 Female Ministry of Chiefs representative states that we have the option of stopping the
installation. Mr Chipeta advises her against advising us to take any specific actions,
emphasizing it's a family issue, saying that it shouldn't be said "that we were advised by
government."

06:59 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba (Plaintiff) speaks: "No. No. No. Of course.
We wouldn't even say that." "What you've said is something we've thought about because we
foresaw it. The simple truth, regardless of what has been said here is that, as you've seen, the
process has not been followed to the letter. Even the person who did the selection, you saw
what was going on, insofar as the pure description of how it's supposed to go is concerned, she
had no right.
Hence that confusion and unfortunately everyone was shouting."
07:33 Mr Chipeta asks: "Who is supposed to do it?"

07:35 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "The old man in the grey jacket. Yes! The
old man in the grey jacket. The one who came and was speaking from this side, yes."

07:40 Mr Chipeta emphasizes that as outsiders they don't know anything of dissenters internal
customs, so it's for them to (inaudible)

07:44 Lady from Ministry tries to get clear on who was being referred to by Mutenguna Franklin
Mukakanga Nalubamba.

07:47 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "The older man, that one there; the one who
was speaking, the one with the brown trousers.. the one with the... yes. Him. Yes. It is him who
was supposed to do it... The man with a hat." (Referring to Jacob Shamwachili)

Mr Chipeta seeks to confirm: "The one with... brown trousers, with a hat?"

07:58: Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "Yes, which is why, by the time he came
here, according to what has been witnessed, essentially you've seen two people...

Mr Chipeta (completing his sentence): "Announced" (Affirming what he had seen)

Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba (finishing his sentence): "Selected on the spot."

08:06 Lady from Ministry: "So which one is the other person?"

Mr Chipeta: "Who is the other one who has been selected?"

08:10 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "The family sat down and put forward Judge
Chiimbwe." (And Jacob anointed him in the middle of the gathering, an act witnessed by those
present)

08:16 Namwako Mukakanga: "Judge is our father."

Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "He is our father... I think they know him..."

Ministry officers make sounds of recognition.

Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba (confirming): "The one who was sitting here, Yes...
So the selection as the oldest…" (interrupted by his cousin Namwako)

08:28 Mr Chipeta: "Now, But, you're patrilineal, you people?"

Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "Yes we are. We are patrilineal... So the
generation that does the work is higher than us."

Mr Chipeta continues: "Just reasoning with you, not that (inaudible)..."

Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "Reason with us."

Mr Chipeta: "You agree with this?" (unfolding the family tree document prepared for the event)

08:43 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "Yes. Now let me tell you the one thing that I
wish had been made clear in so far as everyone is concerned. These lines here (pointing at
family tree diagram), right? ... were supposed to alternate the chieftaincy. This line, the
Mwachisowa line…" (interrupted by Mr Chipeta)

08:49 Mr Chipeta: "But otherwise, this is ok"

09:01 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "Otherwise, apart from the corrections that
were made (earlier on in the program, by members of the Nalubamba royal household), this is it,
but what is supposed to happen is that, the chief..." (cut off by Mr Chipeta)

09:07 Mr Chipeta: "So its the issue of rotation?

09:09 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "It's... it's a rotation... Because that's where
the issue came from, which is why, even when this situation came to a head, it was supposed to
move on."

Mr Chipeta interjects: "Because I'm trying to reason with you..." He then goes on to explain a
historical patrilineality.
(See paraphrase below in italics)

Mr Chipeta: "You see, I may not be a member of the family, but either way, but you see, if you
agree to be patrilineal, Me I come from (inaudible), Eastern province; where it is matrilineal."

Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "Matrilineal, yes."

Mr Chipeta: "But the patrilineal system, the way it is, according to history, now I'm coming in as
according to... history: The rotation, where we have found the rotation aspect has always come
up, even in matrilineal, within the... here, like Southern Province, even within matrilineal, people
bring in the rotation. Yeah, like, but, for example, listen to this: Patrilineal is still the nephews,
just the nephews: Straightforward... Now even patrilineal, how it does is this: How it works,
historically, eh? If it has come from this line (showing a line on the family tree diagram), when it
comes to this one appointed to be chief, I don't know if you understand the system where those,
according to patrilineal, those, the first thing they do, all these, of course they have picked this
one, the children from the wife can be any of these, can be any, because these are wives to the
chief ... sons can be any... Once they pick a.. There's an aspect where there are some who are
born when the chief, somebody is installed as chief, you understand that part? Those are called
to be sons for the chief."

Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "After installation?"

Mr Chipeta: "After installation. Before installation they are not sons but they are the senior
grandchildren."

11:05 Clapping and whistling begins among some of the people present.

Mr Chipeta: "They are the senior Grandchildren. So, preference is usually given to the "sons of
the chief". It moves like that. But once a chief is picked, this is where the point is really... "

Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba responds to an Elder calling him to join them...

Mr Chipeta continues: "If the son is picked, I'll hear you the aspect of rotation, Like here,
(showing example on family tree) it has reached this stage: If this one was agreed as picked, it
means all these, according to patrilineal historically, it has passed them... It has now come
here. Now it will be here. It goes on like that."

Paraphrase of Mr Chipeta's words :

Historically, Patrilineal systems exclude all lines (siblings) from succession but the one selected
line in perpetuity. Some patrilineal systems move a seat from uncle to nephew in perpetuity. This
method is straightforward. Rotation is known to exist, even in matrilineal systems like those in
Southern Province (Tonga).

12:23 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba gets clarity and confirms that the Nalubamba
custom, then, is a hybrid system, not patrilineal, based on the explanation given, explaining its
inbuilt rotation.

12:43 Mr Chipeta chimes in: "Which is your own custom, which cannot be disputed, according to
your custom..."

12:47 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba agrees with this assessment, "Exactly", and
continues on, describing the circumstances by which Bright Nalubamba became chief after the
Chiimbwe line had been selected for succession.

14:29 The conversation ends amicably and Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba leaves
the Ministry officials to be served lunch, as Mr Chipeta reemphasizes the Ministry's neutrality.
15:01 George Mukakanga (Plaintiff) (Referring to the failed attempt to get Judge Chiimbwe into
the house of initiation, which was perfectly within custom as he had been anointed by Jacob
Shamwachili): "You didn't manage to get him in?"

15:03 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "No, he's the one who refused. He didn't
want to take it like that; where there's all that struggle... because he should have gone in."

George Mukakanga: "...Fighting them."

15:15 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba goes on sharing details of being blocked
from getting to the entrance of the house of initiation by Choolwe Nalubamba who was "Trying
to push, push him (Judge Chiimbwe) to not go in".

15:24 George Mukakanga seeking confirmation on "Choolwe… pushing his father?" (Surprised
at the level of disrespect it showed) Grunt of confirmation.

15:26 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "Because he was even trying to tell me
earlier on, 'I'll sort you out in front of the police.'"

Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba and George Mukakanga walk on in silence until
they join the elders of the MRE under a nearby mango tree. They find them having a discussion.

16:29 The bana Mwami and bakwashi discuss strategy; James Chimbozi suggests driving the
offense with Jacob Shamwachili standing in his authority as the known mukwashi if the matter
goes to court. "We stand behind this one."

16:40 James Chimbozi: "If there's money to buy summons and traveling money, let's buy
summons for those who have done this. Then the government will ask them, "Why did you stop
him?" (From performing his role)

16:52 Pawsen Munamooya: "The issues that we found where we went (Namwala District
Commissioner's office) were that, 'if people have not gotten clear on the matter, we
(Government) don't install a chief.'"

17:00 Mutenguna Franklin Mukakanga Nalubamba: "We need a complaint, a formal complaint
and an injunction."

17:28 Godfrey Munamooya (Plaintiff) recounts how, during the just finished meeting, "George
Mukakanga spoke 'very strongly, very strongly,' saying, 'Give us time. Let's sit down and talk.'
But they refused to listen… 'Let's come to an understanding.' They turned a deaf ear."

"And this one said (referring to his brother Pawsen Munamooya), 'Let us come to a common
understanding'. They didn't listen."
18:23 Douglas Shingandu (Plaintiff and Chairman of the Family Committee of the Mbeza Royal
Establishment) asking Judge Chiimbwe to report on a phone call he had just come from making
to the District Commissioner: "What has she said?"

18:26 Judge Chiimbwe: "I've told her there's been confusion. Officers are here and are just
watching. The person who was anointed was not the one who was supposed to be anointed.
The one doing the anointing was not the one supposed to do it, meanwhile your officers were
just watching. People are complaining. We are complaining, and it appears that there is nothing
that the officers are doing to control the situation. Then they anointed someone who was not
supposed to be anointed (selected), while we the owners (of the seat) are refusing."

18:57 Douglas Shingandu: "Where we weakened our position, father, was when we agreed to
come and sit this side" (Context: The Bana Mwami headed by the elders had resolved to draw
King's party out to the Chamber/Hall to use the day to clear out issues rather than proceed with
selection of a chief divided, and had actually gone to the chamber and not the grounds where
the selection was being done, initially. While there, they sent envoys to invite King's people at
the Ndandala grounds to discuss differences at the chamber, but were duped into calling the
elders from the chamber, saying the discussions would be had on the grounds where selection
was to later happen. No discussions ever happened). "We would have said 'We are the parents
here. We will not sit here. The family has refused, unless we go to meet in the chamber'. Then,
if they didn't come, it would have been seen that the thing had failed."

19:12 Pawsen Munamooya: "The bad thing, is that the police refused (to let it happen). They are
bought."

Douglas Shingandu finishes sharing his thought, emphasizing the need for quick action.
"If it fails, it should fail before the Government (i.e. Court)."

20:16 End of clip.