Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor

08/22/2011 9:12 AM

Dear friends,

We tested Tan Delta test on a 6 KV HT Motor. We got the following readings at different
voltages,

UVW Phase (Star Connected)

Voltage

(kV)
Tan Delta (%) CAPACITANCE (nF)

1.2 3.2 130.82

1.8 3.24 130.82

2.4 3.33 130.98

2.9 3.79 131.73

3.4 4.62 133.17

Motor Details:

KW: 275KW

KV: 6KV

Manuf. Year: 2008

The tested party said that these readings indicate partial discharge. We don't have any
spare motor for this. Kindly suggest these readings really indicate serious Partial
discharge???

If we run the motor it will fail? Or it will take long time to fail??
What are the actions to be taken for this?

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 #2 "Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor" by TonyS on 08/22/2011 9:21 AM (score
1)

 #5 "Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor" by rsbarve on 08/23/2011 1:01 AM (score
1)

Anonymous
Poster #1 #1

Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor

08/22/2011 9:17 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tan_delta_test

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TonyS
Guru #2

Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor

08/22/2011 9:21 AM

If you don't have a spare what choice do you have? You run it and
get a spare sorted quickly. If you can leave it shut down then you've
all the time in the world, until you need it in a hurry!

It's your call, it's risk assessment!

Join Date: Aug 2010

Location: Resting under __________________

the Major Oak Pessimists are rarely disappointed.
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olehwi
#3
Power-User

Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor

08/22/2011 10:59 PM
Join Date: Jun 2010

Location: Canada
You do not provide sufficient information for anyone to provide you
Posts: 126 with advice.

Good Answers: 6 Yes, the motor is breaking out seriously into corona just below the
operating voltage.

How soon will the motor break down - will depend on the insulation
used in the motor and on the number, amplitude and frequency of
over-voltages and surges appearing at the terminals of the motor.

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leveles
Guru #4

Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor

08/22/2011 11:24 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008

Posts: 1756
The scarcity of the explanations allow two possibility. One is
Good Answers: 59 Olehwi's: the motor run long enough highly stressed, and low level of
corona discharge is eating the insulation at the end of its life. The
other is, that the motor was in storage long enough to absorb
moisture in the insulation. That can be cooked out by running the
motor without load for a couple of days, giving a chance the
moisture to bake out.

BUT, I have a problem with the basic question itself. Any motor is a
very lossy capacitor from the silicon iron lamination alone. What is
the loss factor in a newly assembled motor? Without knowing that,
deterioration - if any - can only be guesstimated.

One more note. Corona and other insulation failure modes are
voltage threshold dependent. You will see them at higher than
normal voltages. Attempting to measure them at low voltages, as
reported, is meaningless.

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rsbarve
#5
Participant

Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor

08/23/2011 1:01 AM
Join Date: Aug 2011

Posts: 3
Cannot give a specific answer. However , some thoughts below-

1) Assuming that the voltage was between line and earth, you have
already reached near phase voltage 3468V which is likely to happen
with earthed neutral system. So less problem in analysis and also
with the motor if it is the case.

2) Take heart! Does not appear too bad as various factors are
involved in diagnosis. One of them is the insulation system used.
Older systems have higher tan delta on which IEC allowed
approx.4.5 % at rated voltage. Olehvi & levles are right and you
should have report of condition on new motor for better
understanding.Otherwise, check the system used and results of
same make from same manufacturer.

3) The tip up of current is not bad.They must have stopped further

testing due to limitation on bridge to have more than 150/200 mA
current. If the readings at rated voltage do not shoot up, there is
less probability of catastropic failure.

4)Also tip up of tan delta between 20 % & approx 60 % rated

voltage is not too bad considering that you cannot test a complete
motor with guard rings at the ends of each coil. Most probably, the
manufacturer must have used a stress grading tape at the end of the
coils which increase tip up.

5) Cleaner and dry 0verhang can improve tan delta if the windings
are found contaminated with conducting dust.

pl keep posted if further investigations and actions taken

regards

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MMKumar
#6
Active Contributor
In reply to #5

Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor

Join Date: Jun 2011 08/23/2011 6:15 AM
Posts: 13
kindly give details how do u analysis the tan delta results.

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ARUN DOGRA
#7
Participant
In reply to #6

Re: Tan Delta Test on 6KV HT Motor

Join Date: Sep 2011 09/15/2011 5:05 AM

Posts: 3
AS YOU KNOW THE TAN DELTA TEST ALSO CALLED LOSS ANGLE OR
DISSIPATION FACTOR TESTING , IS A DIAGNOSTIC METHOD OF
TESTING MOTOR WINDINGS INSULATION QUALITY. IF THE
INSULATION IS GOOD, FREE FROM DEFECTS LIKE WATER TREE,
ELECTRICAL TREE, MOISTURE AND AIR POCKETS ETC THE WINDING
APPROACHES THE PROPERTY OF A PERFECT CAPACITOR. IF THERE
ARE IMPURITIES IN THE INSULATION, THE RESISTANCE OF
INSULATION DECREASES, RESULTING THE INCREASE IN RESISTIVE
CURRENT THROUGH THE INSULATION. THE CURRENT AND VOLTAGE
WILL NO LONGER BE 90 DEGREE OUT OF PHASE AND THE
DIFFERENCE IN OUT OF PHASE (FROM PEFECT POSITION OF 90
DEGREE) IS THE INDICATIVE LEVEL OF INSULATION
CONTAMINATION/DETEORIATION. THIS IS CALLED TAN DELTA.
ANALYSIS OF READINGS THE READINGS SHALL BE ANALYSED IN
REFERENCE TO THE MANUFACTURER RESULTS/DESIGN RESULTS.
THE INCREASING TREND W.R.T INCREASING TEST VOLTAGE AND BY
AGAING GIVES THE INDICATION OF FUTURE FAILURE. NORMALY
THE VALUE SHOULD BE BELOW .03 RADIAN (3%) HOWEVER THE
INTERPRETATION SHALL BE CONCLUDED ON CHECKING PD,PI,
DELTA C , DC LEAKAGE CURRENT & SURGE TEST ALSO. REGARDS
AKD

mohanlal (Electrical)
(OP)
9 Jan 06 06:18
The generator / motor winding power factor or tan delta test was carried out for the 3.3 KV
equipments. The generator ratings are 8.0 MW & motor ratings are from 175 KW to 1600 KW.
The test referred to as Tip-up test is performed at a number of levels of voltage from 25% to
100% of line to ground voltage to obtain the PF vs voltage chs. PF Tip up value is defined as the
difference between the PF
measured at the line to ground voltage and the PF measurred at teh lowest voltage in the test
range (usually 25% of the line to ground voltage.)
The double system includes online DTA expert condition evaluation software,which evaluates and
rates the dielectric condition of the insulation tested
from the test results by comparison against the limits of PF of reliable winding insulation of
units of identical make, type, and ratings with the unit tetsed as well as against previous test
records of the unit where
available.
In such test one of the generator is having % PF of average 6% for phase to ground and 3 % for
phase to phase. If the insulation is epoxy-mica, then the % pf is high and indicates possible
deterioration.
Recommended to test it again within next three months to monitor the trending. Now the
equipment is on line.
Could anybody conclude from the test values and what is required to be done next?
I request Ragunath also to join in this question forum.
Thanks,
Subramanian

RE: Generator / Motor winding Tan-Delta (PF) test

motorspert (Electrical) 9 Jan 06 07:49
At 3300V we would not recommend Tan delta testing. the coils won't have corona sheields, so the
earting is dodgy and readings would be unreliable. Also, at such low phase voltages there would
not be any discharges within the coils. We only test at 4500V and above even at 4500V teh value
of the test is debatable.

By all means repeat in three months - but ask the company or persons who are doing the tests
for you to justify why you need them.

RE: Generator / Motor winding Tan-Delta (PF) test

edison123 (Electrical) 9 Jan 06 22:57
I agree with motorpsert. IEEE 286 states that PF and tan delta is useful for 6 KV and above. 3.3
KV motors do not have stress grading and anti corona systems since the partial discharges start
at over 6 KV.

* Homer Wisdom - "Operator, Give me the number for 911" *

RE: Generator / Motor winding Tan-Delta (PF) test

vmere (Electrical) 10 Jan 06 06:50
TAN/DELTA testing of transformers & motors.

We have 30mva transformers with open air 132kv hv bushing.

i require information/explanation on how to do this test & why is required. What are expected
values from tests. Does this give one a foot print of the insulation of bushing/winding, etc?