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Major constructs of contextual therapy:

An interview with Dr. Ivan Boszormenyi-
Nagy
a
Catherine Frank
a
Delaware Valley Psychological Clinic
Published online: 13 Jun 2007.

To cite this article: Catherine Frank (1984) Major constructs of contextual therapy: An interview
with Dr. Ivan Boszormenyi-Nagy, The American Journal of Family Therapy, 12:1, 7-14, DOI:
10.1080/01926188408250154

To link to this article: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/01926188408250154

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MAJOR CONSTRUCTS OF CONTEXTUAL THERAPY:

AN INTERVIEW WITH
DR. IVAN BOSZORMENYI-NAGY

CATHERINE FRANK
Delaware Valley Psychological Clinic

This article is an edited version of four intemiews conducted with Dr. ban Boszomenyi-
Nagy in the Spring of 1980. The interviews ranged in content from Dr. Nagy 's early train-
ing and influences to the theoretical and clinical foundations of contextual family therapy.
"his article focuses on the major constructs of contextual family therapy. Since this approach
is often viewed as highly theoretical and conceptual in nature, it may be helpful to the prac-
titioner to see how Dr. Nagy uses these constructs in a clinical situation. A s a practitioner,
1 have found his theoy extremely useful in conceptualizing the family system, and also
in developing a treatment strategy. Hopefully, the questions asked of Dr. Nagy in these
interviews will be of interest to other family therapists who are concerned with the clinical
aspects of family therapy theories.
-C. F.

CF: I thought that today we could talk about the major constructs of contextual
therapy. One concept I would like to discuss is legacy and how it is used.
My interpretation is that it refers to that which is passed from one genera-
tion to the next, but I'm not clear as to how many generations one should
consider.
IBN: Legacy is an obligation, but it is also an option. It came from the past and
connects with the future. Two main forms are filial loyalty and parental ac-
countability. Filial loyalty pertains to acknowledgment of what we received
from our roots-in part, parents; in part, roots beyond them. Parental ac-
The American Journal of Family Therapy, Vol. 12, No. 1, 1984, 0 BrunnerlMazel, Inc.

7
 a The American Journal of Family Therapy Vol. 12, No. 1

countability pertains to what we contribute, what we care about in terms of

our descendants and children and so on, or to anybody to whom we can
give. It is not just a question of how many generations, it is a question of
whom or what has been given to me, that I'm a beneficiary of, besides be-
ing a descendant of. In this respect, national, ethnic or religious groups have
a legacy aspect. Belonging to a family or ethnic or religious group is a benefit,
among other things, because I receive many things from past efforts which
are passed down to me. And in return, I also owe some kind of acknowledg-
ment.
The question is, what is it that you owe? Who sets the terms of obligations?
Families or societies define these terms by establishing customs, traditions
and expectations. Then, the question arises for the individual about his ob-
ligation to follow the "rules." Is he a traitor if he does not meet legacy ex-
pectations? For a therapist, it is important to know the legacy expectations
and then help the client define his own terms for meeting them.
CF: Would you consider marrying outside of one's religion a legacy issue?
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IBN: First of all, any marriage is a joining and balancing of two legacy expecta-
tions because two different families already have two different legacy con-
figurations. Each person brings his or her own past into the marriage. In any
marriage, the next generation would have to fuse the two legacies because
they inherit both. So in that sense, any marriage is a mixed marriage. But
the mixture may be such that it is incompatible for one legacy to mix with
the other, for religious or other reasons. You cannot possibly marry a per-
son of a different race or religion without the marriage itself being a major
item for a legacy obligation.
CF: Does this indicate an act of disloyalty towards one's parents?
IBN: No. The new generation owes it to the old generation to explain and examine
the terms of the kind of orthodoxy that is being expected of the deviant, or
new generation, and to see that the essential legacy needs are balanced in
some way. One could say, "I don't care if my grandfather drops dead." That
would be one obvious way of not caring. On the other hand, one could say,
"I have honest convictions and I'd like to explain them so that they are
honored, and try to find out what is the human essence of the legacy. Maybe
we cannot agree but we must do as much as possible." What cannot be for-
gotten, though, is that a marriage, from the legacy point of view, usually
involves the consideration of children. There may be marriages in which chil-
dren are out of the question, but these are a minority. Ordinarily, the choices
concerning children made by husband and wife are a legacy obligation that
affects the future generations, as well as the previous ones. For instance,
there was a time when racially mixed children were considered unacceptable
by both groups, thus creating outcasts.
CF: I am not clear about the concept of merit balance in terms of using the legacy
to balance things between generations. Also, does it apply to the nuclear
family-husband and wife?
IBN: Legacy is part of the parentlchild relationship and, therefore, it's a special kind
of merit ledger. When a woman and a man decide that they want a child
and are willing to go through all that is required, then they are committed.
They plan and participate in childbirth and take care of that child. That is
a little different from two people meeting and liking each other. They may
be fair to each other or not fair to each other; whatever accumulates creates
a merit ledger on both sides. But when children are involved, the child is
related to its mother not on the basis of the latter's behavior, but by the very
 Spring 1984 Interview with Ivan Boszormenyi-Nagy 9

fact of being born.This is a legacy relationship because it is asymmetrical. The

parents can choose when they want to have a child, but the child cannot
choose that he wants to be born. The parents cannot choose who they want
to be their child; they usually do not know if it is a girl or a boy. So it is asym-
metrical in terms of options, and this is part of the legacy. Therefore, if the
parent behaves badly, we still have the legacy of filial loyalty. This person
is still my mother and no one else can be, no matter how mother behaves.
I have received a unique contribution even though it may be at some cost
to her own commitment to me as her baby. So in that sense, there is a basis
for a legacy of filial loyalty to our natural mother even if there is an adoption.
CF: So even a child who is abused or neglected would still have to consider the
legacy or the filial loyalty that is involved in the connection of birth?
IBN: Yes, but that is not the only basis for trying to work on the trustworthiness
of the relationship. The other part is that the child is also, irreversibly or cap-
tively, invested in the trustworthiness of that relationship. It is for the child’s
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benefit to be able to look up to the parent, rather than just consider the parent
no good. That is a losing proposition-for the child anyway-so working on
the trustworthiness of one’s relationship with inadequate parents is not just
an obligation, it is in the interest of the child as partner to the trustworthiness
of the context. The child also has an input and, if this can be improved, he
benefits. So, improving trustworthiness is not just noble forgiveness, it is
of vital interest to the child. It is very important to work on this relationship,
or at least to understand it.
CF: In order to improve a relationship with an inadequate parent, would you ex-
onerate the child from trying to understand what happened to the parent
that made him unable to be a better one?
IBN: Exoneration is one of the global concepts of the contextual process. It is the
only way in which I can increase trust in my parent, who did things badly;
essentially the parent can be exonerated in this process of finding out and
understanding. But, this is only one part of the process. The other part is
gaining a trust base for other relationships for the child. This is not just a
gesture, because it involves the self-interest of the child.
CF: f I help a child to exonerate his parents by understanding their problems,
what is the dynamic that helps that child feel better or more able to accept?
IBN Trustworthiness is not easy to define. The usual psychological explanation
is the identity or identification with one’s parents; therefore, I look down
on myself as long as I look down on my parents. The invisible loyalty aspect
is that I may have contempt for myself if I have contempt for my parents.
Another concept of contextual therapy is trust. An example of this is given
in Chapter 12 of my book Invisible Loyalties. A 16-year old girl, who comes
from a very destructive family, with a psychosomatic parent and a conflic-
tual marriage, has nothing but contempt for her mother. She was unwill-
ing to consider working with her mother until the latter was diagnosed as
having cancer. When this happened, she decided to help her mother in the
home. This improved the trust relationship loo%, to the point where they
sorted out events from the past and developed the undeveloped resources
of trust. At one point the daughter said, “My mother considered me a good
daughter-even when she seemed angry with me because I sided with my
father against her-because it gave her the feeling that, even though she was
in a nasty mood, she knew I would make sure that father wasn’t hurt that
much. I really felt good about that.” If they had never talked before the
mother died, her memory would have been that her mother hated her, and
 10 The American Journal of Family Therapy Vol. 12, No. 1

she would be living with that, but instead they came to care about each other.
They finally hugged and kissed each other and all of their other relationships
improved.
CF: I am seeing a young woman who seems to be caught in a split loyalty. She
is partial to her mother and because of that does poorly in school and does
not socialize. I’ve been trying to get her to acknowledge how helpful she
is being, but I still do not see how to help her grow from the place that she
is in, in terms of finding a new way to be helpful to her mother, without
sacrificing her own life.
IBN: One should assume that the mother did see something good in the father,
otherwise she wouldn’t have mamed him. And somehow, the mother’s in-
tegrity depends on being able to state that she saw something good in him.
I’m trying to find a formula that would alleviate that split loyalty. The fact
that two parents don‘t like each other is unchangeable, but whatever exists
for the benefit of the child should be respected by the other parent. That may
be the most that can be expected from that parent.
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CF: In this case, she uses her daughter as a confidant to talk about how terrible
her husband is and about intimate matters that aren’t appropriate for the
daughter.
IBN: That’s very bad, but maybe it’s unavoidable. Yet, perhaps she could make
some statements to the contrary to balance the situation.
CF: In terms of using the concept of exoneration, would it be helpful to have this
young woman begin to understand what happened to her mother that makes
her hold on to her daughter so tightly?
IBN: That’s exoneration-if my mother is human enough to be able to show me
that my father is not entirely bad, that even though she may not have been
able to do much about their bad mamage, he is not totally to blame.
CF: How much understanding of what’s happening will the mother need in order
to let go of the daughter?
IBN: That’s a different language-that is insight language, psychoanalysis: If the
mother understands herself, then she’ll act less neurotic. Contextually, if the
mother can be helped to exonerate her origins, that will diminish the justifica-
tion for ignoring the daughter’s interests.
CF: So your idea of the revolving slate is the concept of things repeating themselves?
IBN: It also involves the dialectic of changing from one generation to another. It’s
not just repeating, but the ethical linkage that connects one with another.
There is a kind of entitlement “owed“ the person who has been victimized
to be allowed more room and the more room he uses, the more destructive
he is without feeling guilty.
CF: Because he didn’t get from his parents what he felt he was owed?
IBN: Not owed, but what he was actually entitled to.
CF: So that person could act in any way without feeling guilty?
IBN: Tragically, it can occur, and he can also victimize others and still be entitled
to not feel guilty. And that’s a sad thing, but that’s how it is; in the new
relationship, he is victimizing someone unfairly. This kind of person can-
not settle accounts from the past.
CF: How would you work with that as a therapist? If you saw the victim of neglect,
how would you approach that?
IBN: Exoneration is the only thing you can do in the case of a deceased parent;
you can’t make him accountable so that he will pay you something. The only
thing you can do is exonerate, if you can do that.
CF: Can you start with the next generation, in terms of parental accountability?
Or do you have to work backwards first? In other words, can you demand
 Spring 1984 Interview with Ivan Boszormenyi-Nagy 11

of the client to be accountable as a parent, if this victim is now victimizing

his child?
IBN:You can, but I would not want to separate the past generation from the future
generation too much. In my experience, those who are damaging as parents
are pretty messed up. The more confused they are, the less you can expect
them to be accountable.
CF: So, it could be too much to expect them to be accountable before they have
been able to exonerate their parents? They have to move back before they
can move to the next generation?
IBN: Yes, but there’s something missing in that line of thinking. This is an ego
strength issue once again. It is psychoanalytic thinking: Who has a strong
enough ego to be able to take the strain of therapy and be responsible for
functioning? But this is only part of the story. I would say that because the
therapistlpatient relationship cannot be fully trustworthy unless the justice
component is included, the therapist’s sensitivity to the injustice component
must be considered.
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CF: You are referring to the injustice in the sense that the client has been victim-
ized? So that if the therapist can acknowledge that the injustice is real, you
feel that will be helpful?
IBN: If he can acknowledge that the child, who is the client, was treated unfairly,
that is helpful, but it’s not acknowledgment of feeling so much as an open-
ness on the therapist’s part to care about the victimization of any person in
childhood. This is the same thing as multidirected partiality. We should as-
sume that there must be some humanity in nearly everyone and be partial
on that level. So, in this sense, one can extend a certain attitude of partiality,
despite the unmeritorious behavior.
CF: I’m not entirely clear as to when you work backward in exoneration or for-
ward into the next generation. How do you help a parent become more ac-
countable if he is victimizing the child and how quickly would you need to
step in?
IBN: Wherever the easiest entrance is to that level at which people are open and,
even though hurt and disappointed, can still show concern and interest.
Wherever there is the possibility of gaining trust and making progress toward
trustworthiness. Trust is a resource in life, so it is the therapist’s job to find
where he can connect the client with a feeling of trust. Finding the right way
is the whole question of methodology. One of the most obvious ways is to
help a parent to acknowledge a small child’s helpful efforts or concern for
him. At that point you have begun the process of exoneration and acknowl-
edgment. This same issue leads to him, not just as the insensitive parent,
but to him as the child, who in another situation must have been in the same
unacknowledged spot as his child is in now.
So what about him as the child who was never acknowledged? How is it
that this parent is functioning? The linkage there is easy to evoke because
the little child is usually not as walled off from these things as is the hard-
ened, mistrusting adult. Even if the child has begun to turn off trust, he is
still closer to a level of trustworthiness. Therefore, one can elicit from the
child statements of caring and then turn to the parent and try to make him
acknowledge. If he cannot acknowledge or if he begins to feel guilty, then
one begins to be partial to the parent on the level of the victimized child of
the past.
CF: I think this is clearer now. The idea of the linkage helps me understand how
to tie together each generation. Another question I have is about rejunction.
Is that a concept that you are still using?
 12 The American Journal of Family Therapy Vol. 12, No. 1

IBN: Well, it’s shorthand for this very complicated trustbuilding process, and it
is only good as a short-term method because ”rejunction” itself means “ty-
ing together.” So, to different people, it may mean something different. It
may not deal with the ethical options of relationships, it may deal with hang-
ing around physically, never separating, or loving each other dearly. All
kinds of things may be included under the term “rejunction,” but the most
specific point is the business of exoneration and acknowledgment, which are
of course, trust building processes. Rejunction is not specific enough. It’s
not in Invisible Loyalties, although it is in later writings. It is important to be
able to define more clearly the elaborate process of trust building, earned
merit, and the ethical aspect of this theory. Rejunction does not address these
issues clearly enough to be very useful.

BIBLIOGRAPHY OF WORKS BY IVAN BOSZORMENYI-NAGY, M.D.

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with A. Friedman et al., Therapy with Families of Sexually Acting-Out Girls. New York: Springer, 1971.
with G. M. Spark, Znvisible Loyalties: Reciprocity in Zntergeneratioml Family Therapy. New York: Harper
& Row, 1973.
by A. Van Heusden and E. M. Van den Eerenbeemt, Ivan Boswmenyi-Nagy en zijn visie op individuele
en ga‘nsthmpie (Ivan Boszormenyi-Nagyand his Vision of Individual and Family Therapy) in Dutch.
The Netherlands: DeToorts, Haarlem, 1983.

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