Office for Civil Rights and Title IX Education and Compliance od Hat Mihigan state Unversiy ASW Cie De Sate S Eat Laning i aBbce Foe S17-8648879 ‘eeu MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY May 9, 2018 Ms. Flizabeth Abdnour Ms. Abdnour: MSU Employee Relations has completed its investigation of allegations concerning your employment. Attached you wil find a copy of the final Investigative Report (the “Report’). Based on the findings of misconduct identified within the Report, and upon conferral with the Office of the President and the Associate Vice President for Academic Human. Resources, you are hereby terminated from your at-will employment as a Senior institutional Equity Investigator. Your termination is effective as of the date of this letter. Please contact Ms. Mary Anne Donaghy, Acting Director of Ole, at (517) 353-3922 or donaghvm@msu.edu to arrange a time to collect your personal belongings from your office. Sincerely, Nr Associate Vice PresidentINVESTIGATIVE REPORT MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY, OFFICE OF EMPLOYEE RELATIONS Director of Employee Relations, Richard W. Fanning, Jr., JD Assistant Director of Employee Relations, Amy B. Holda, MLRHR Date: April 17, 2018 RE: Elizabeth Abdnour, JD, Senior Investigator Office of Institutional Equity Background On February 27, 2018, the Office of Employee Relations (OER) was contacted by Title IX and ‘ADA Coordinator Jessica Norris about concerns which had been raised by Deb Martinez, a Senior Investigator with the Office of Institutional Equity (OIE), about another Senior Investigator, Elizabeth Abdnour. OER’s involvement as the investigating body was confirmed on Friday, March 2, 2018.! OER’s role was to identify the specific allegations against Abdnour, and to determine if the actions alleged did, or did not, occur. On March 7, 2018 Abdnour forwarded a letter to OER which listed concerns about Jayne Schuiteman, and claimed Abdnour’s suspension with pay pending investigation was retaliatory. The claim of retaliation was added to OER’s investigation. The claims concerning Schuiteman were determined to be outside of the scope of OER’s investigation, and were not considered by OER. OER understands the University is addressing those concems through a different avenue. OER attempted to locate applicable work rules or policies. However, as a Senior Investigator, ‘Abdnour works in an Executive Management position. Associate Provost and Associate Vice President for Academic Human Resources Theodore Curry confirmed that there were no written work rules or policies applicable to Abdnour’s position. Rather, that position operated under an “at-will” employment status. This “at-will” status was confirmed in a written offer letter from then-Director of OIE Ande Durojaiye to Abdnour which was dated November 30, 2016. Abdnour signed that document on November 30, 2016. This document also includes a list of job duties, including that Abdnour served “in a leadership capacity” within OIE. In this investigation, OER did not apply a strict legal burden of proof, but considered whether the available and credible evidence made an event more likely than not. OER identified specific allegations against Abdnour. Following her request, the allegations were forward to her on March 8, 2016. These allegations are: 1. That Abdnour stated a desire to create chaos in OIE to undermine Acting Director Dr. Jayne Schuiteman; suggested a vote of no confidence in Schuiteman as Acting Director, encouraged employees to refuse to participate in a staff meeting as a means of undermining the authority of Schuiteman; and/or asking OIE staff to join in a revolution due to the selection of Schuiteman as Acting Direct 2 Interviews could not begin until Monday, March 5, 2018 as Martinez was on vacation. 12. That Abdnour criticized Dr. Schuiteman and asked OIE employees to bring matters to her rather than Schuiteman; 3. That Abdnour told other OIE staff that she had embarrassing personal information about Schuiteman which she would use to negatively affect Schuiteman’s position as Acting Director; 4. ‘That Abdnour asked other OIE staff members to help her obtain information pertaining to Schuiteman and/or Norris which could be used to negatively affect their positions at the University; 5. That Abdnour criticized Dr. Schuiteman and questioned her qualifications for the position at a meeting of faculty; 6. That Abdnour made statements referring to her role in the termination of another investigator and suggesting that she could obtain the termination of other staff members; and 7. That Abdnour surreptitiously listened to a private meeting involving Schuiteman and staff from OBR, OER interviewed sixteen (16) witnesses and Abdnour and collected documents from witnesses and from Abdnour. During her interview Abdnour identified the following witnesses: all OIE investigators, Melanie Trowbridge, Lydia Weiss, Jennie Yelvington, Professor Amy DeRogatis, Professor Chris Frilingos, Professor Arthur Versluis, and Joe Garza, All these individuals were interviewed except Frilingos, Versluis and Garza. Frilingos and Versluis were not interviewed as DeRogatis verified Abdnour’s claims on the issue about which they would have been interviewed. As such, they would have been cumulative. Mr. Garza was not interviewed as it was determined that the information he would provide primarily related to matters that were outside the scope of. the investigation or were irrelevant to its outcome. On March 23, 2018, Abdnour identified eight (8) additional witnesses via at e-mail to OER. Of those, four (4) related to her allegations that Schuiteman had mishandled an OIE investigation conceming a faculty member. That allegation was outside the scope of this investigation and those witnesses were not interviewed. ‘The remaining four (4) witnesses were identified as speaking to Abdnour’s state of mind and intent. These witnesses were not identified as having specific and first-hand information of the allegations. However, the first three (3) listed witnesses were interviewed, and provided cumulative and general information. As such, based upon consultation with the Office of General Counsel, the decision was made not to interview the remaining witness, OER also collected the following documentary evidence: 1, Abdnour's November 30, 2016 offer letter pertaining to the Senior Investigator position.2. A series of text messages to and from the OIE investigators? which was provided on March 6, 2018 by Martinez. An undated chronology provided by OIE Investigator Kaylie Straka on March 6, 2018. 4, An e-mail sent by Straka to herself dated February 23, 2018 which was provided by Straka on March 6, 2018. 5. A post-it note upon which Straka wrote a Snapchat name used by Durojaiye. This was provided during her interview on March 6, 2018, 6. An e-mail chain including e-mails between Abdnour and Schuiteman on February 9, 2018. This was provided by on March 6, 2018 by Martinez 7. A March 7, 2018 letter which was e-mailed by Abdnour. ‘A March 14, 2018 e-mail from OIE Investigator Lauren Spencer. 9. Notes ofa conversation between Jenifer’ ‘Yelvington and Abdnour on February 21, 2018 which Yelvington provided on March 20, 2018. 10. A February 19, 2018 e-mail from Abdnour to Schuiteman pertaining to meeting follow- up provided by Abdnour on March 21, 2018. 11. A February 9, 2018 e-mail from Martinez regarding an Investigator Group Discussion which Abdnour provided via e-mail on March 21, 2018, 12. A February 14, 2018 e-mail from Straka re: Investigator Discussion/Information — Invitation to collaborate provided by Abdnour on March 21, 2018. 3. A document concerning Kroll staff which Abdnour described as being complied by Straka and which was provided by Abdnour on March 21, 2018. 14. A sereen shot of an undated text conversation between Abdnour and OIE Senior Investigator Tracy Leahy and OIE Investigator Kaylie Straka which Abdnour provided on March 21, 2018. 15. A February 9, 2018 e-mail from Schuiteman and a February 9, 2018 response from Abdnour pertaining to bad weather days which Abdnour provided on March 22, 2018, 16. A February 9, 2018 e-mail from Schuiteman and a February 9, 2018 response from OTE Investigator Lin-Chi Wang pertaining to bad weather days which Abdnour provided on March 22, 2018. 17. A January 27, 2018 e-mail from Schuiteman and a January 27, 2018 response from Abdnour pertaining to applicant screenings which was provided by Abdnour on March 22, 2018. 18. A March 22, 2018 e-mail from Abdnour pertaining to dates of conversations with Assistant Director, Academic Human Resources, Melanie Trowbridge. Witnesses All witnesses were informed that they would not suffer retaliation as a result of their participation in this investigation. After issues about recording interviews and possible union organizing activity emerged during Martinez’s interview, all other witnesses were informed that there would be no recording and OIE employees were assured that the interview did not concem any union * OIE has both Investigators and Senior Investigators. When reference is made to a specific role, the title shall be capitalized. The use of the lower case word “investigators” shall refer to both Senior Investigators and Investigators collectivelyorganizing, All witnesses were informed that they were under no obligation to speak to OER, could leave if they wished and could choose not to answer a given question. Witnesses who were represented by a labor organization were informed that they could have a union representative present. Union representatives were present in all cases where a witness so requested. Abdnour ‘was permitted to bring legal representation of her choice. Erin Hopper of White Schneider PC attended her interview at Abdnour's request. The following is a summary of the relevant portions of OER interviews. Debra Rousseau Mat Senior Institutional Equity Investigator, OIE Debra Rousseau Martinez was interviewed March 5, 2018, Martinez was informed that her conduct ‘was not being investigated. Martinez was also informed of the non-retaliation policy. Martinez stated that she spoke to Detective Andrea Munford of the MSU Pol.ce Department about her concerns pertaining to Abdnour, and then came forward to Ms. Jessica Norris on February 23, 2018, Martinez stated on December 6, 2017 she went to the Sparty’s in the Administration Building with Lauren Spencer and saw Liz Abdnour and Ande Durojaiye having a private meeting. Martinez stated that between January 15, 2018 and February 9, 2018 Abdnotr told her and Lauren Spencer that Durojaiye told Abdnour that Abdnour would be Acting Director. Martinez reported ‘Abdnour made that statement in Spencer's office. Martinez stated Abdnour indicated that Durojaiye had told her this at the December 6 meeting at Sparty’s. She also stated that Abdnour did not learn that Schuiteman had been chosen to be Acting Director until five minutes before the staff meeting at which the selection of Schuiteman was announced. Martinez stated Abdnour said Abdnour confronted Durojaiye later. Abdnour reported Durojaiye lold her she was not chosen to be Acting Director “because Lou Anna thinks you're too much of an activist.” This referred to former-President Lou Anna K. Simon. Martinez, reported that there is a lot of criticism in the office that Schuiteman doesn’t have a law degree. The criticism comes from Abdnour mostly, but others agree. Martinez recalls Abdnour making comments “Jayne doesn’t have a law degree. The person chosen is the only person that doesn’t have a law degree. How is that good for O12?” Martinez stated comments about Schuiteman not having a law degree occurred before an emergency staff meeting on February 12, 2018. She also stated the issue had been brought up before Schuiteman was announced as Interim Director’. Martinez provided screenshots of a text chain that include the following comments by Liz Abdrour. Martinez: reported that the texts were part of a “group text” that included all of the investigators. These texts will be quoted as relevant in the Analysis section of this report. 5 witnesses referred to Or. Schuiteman’s position as elther Acting Director or Interim Director. It is understood to be the same position throughout this reportMartinez stated on February 8, 2018 Abdnour sent a group text referencing report numbers from ‘Advocate, the case management system. The reports were completed by Schuiteman, Martinez Delieved Abdnour was suggesting these as examples of poor work by Schuiteman. Martinez reported that on Friday, February 9, 2018 Abdnour sent out an email to Schuiteman and copied everyone on it. She said Abdnour characteristically sent out emails poorly worded and not worried about her tone. Martinez reported that February 9, 2018 was a snowy day, but Schuiteman stated that people could have come to work. Schuiteman sent an email on the issue which prompted Abdnour to send the text that Schuiteman was ‘digging her own grave.” Martinez stated the office was “imploding from within” and there was no longer any respect Martinez stated she invited Abdnour to breakfast at Sparty’s Coney Island on February 11, 2018 because she wanted to discuss how to address leadership in a respectful way. Martinez said they discussed concems in the office including the Kroll investigators. Martinez said she cautioned Abdnour about what Abdnour was saying in emails and how the emails were perceived. Martinez said she felt Abdnour was receptive. However, while driving in Martinez’ car, Abdnour told Martinez she had “some thoughts if things don’t work out how I want them, maybe could use Jayne’s incident. You know the thing she had last year when she was driving.” This referenced a ‘medical incident which involved law enforcement and is thought to be embarrassing to Schuiteman, Martinez stated Abdnour responded “Don’t worry, [it] won't be tied back to you or me. Could do a FOIA and get it in the right hands.” Martinez stated her response was “Liz, you're ‘messing with people’s lives and that’s not okay.” Martinez said on a different occasion Abdnour talked about submitting a FOIA request for Jessica Nortis’ file from another employer, stating they “Could get rid of Jayne but Jessica is still going, to be a problem.” Abdnour noted that she had “people” and could get information in their hands so it would not be connected to OIE staff. Martinez stated she believes Lauren Spencer and ‘Abdnour have some related texts on the matter. Martinez stated Abdnoutr raised the idea of using Schuiteman’s incident again while in Martinez’s office. Martinez reported that on February 15, 2018 Abdnour brought Schuiteman’s incident up to Lin Chi Wang, She stated that Wang was sitting at the reception desk and Abdnour was at the counter. ‘Martinez, heard Abdnour say “Know we don’t have to, but think we have an ethical obligation to report to Academic HR.” Martinez stated there is no ethical obligation. Wang also said there is, no ethical obligation to report Schuiteman’s incident, Martinez also informed Abdnour that she ‘was “terrifying” her with these comments. This was said in a half-joking manner, Martinez reported the investigators met at Pizza House for lunch on Friday, February 16, 2018 to discuss Schuiteman and Norris” leadership and transparency. She reported Abdnour had come from a training at the Religious Studies department. Abdnour reported faculty had concems and didn't know that Durojaiye had left OIE, Abdnour reported faculty saying “I don’t have a law degree, s0 I could be director of OIE.” Abdnour did not state whether it was she or the faculty that raised the issue concerning Schuiteman’s degrees. Martinez stated that Abdnour stated theinvestigators needed to get the faculty on their side, and that Abdnour should be the person to do it, Abdnour also referenced this in a text saying this needed to be done through “secret ops.” Martinez stated Abdnour made repeated statements, including at the February 16 lunch, that the investigators will be laid off and replaced by Kroll investigators because Kroll will take new cases and complete the investigations faster than the OIE investigators. Martinez said Leahy also referenced “phase II” of the Kroll contract. Martinez stated she felt the lunch meeting was “speculation and a waste of time.” Martinez stated she did not attend the subsequent lunch held at the home of Lin Chi Wang. Martinez said Abdnour sent a text pertaining to insubordination and “Nazis” prior to the lunch at ‘Wang's home. Martinez said that text was Abdnour telling investigators that Schuiteman had met with Abdnour about her tone in an email chain with a faculty member. Abdnour also told investigators that Schuiteman told Abdnour that Abdnour’s behavior was borderline insubordination, Martinez stated that Spencer and Investigator Kaylie Straka came to her office at some point, Strake told Martinez that Abdnour continually called Straka into Abdnour's office and it was imterfering with Straka’s ability to complete her work. Straka told Martinez that Abdnour asked Straka if she wanted “all of the stuff she dug up” in case Straka wanted to take it to the union! Martinez said Straka was upset and decided she needed to tell someone of the ‘ssues with Abdnour. Martinez, stated Straka also told her that Abdnour, during the lunch at Wang’s house, told the investigators that ‘if anything gets out, we'll know there’s a snitch in the group.” Martinez did not attend the lunch at Wang’s home. Martinez, said she told Straka and Spencer that she would report Abdnour’s behavior because she knows Abdnour “can be nasty.” Martinez wanted to shield Straka and Spencer from potential retaliation and stated she had “been around longer and wasn’t worried about Ietving a place to land if it comes back that it was her who reported.” Martinez said she tried to contact Acting General Counsel Kristine Zayko, Zayko was not able to talk with Martinez and teferred Martinez to Associate General Counsel Theresa Kelley. Martinez said she didn’t know Kelley, and therefore contacted Munford. Martinez said Abdnour has made comments that “Jayne doesn’t know how to do this job.” Martinez said Abdnour also commented that Abdnour had reviewed a draft reyort Schuiteman had completed and it was very poor. Martinez said Abdnour commented that investigators should be listening to Abdnour because Schuiteman’s writing was “really bad.” Martinez said Abdnour also said she had sent Schuiteman some feedback and was “really annoyed with her.” Abdnour was reported having said “The Director not wanting good reports to go out was problematic” and “I “ At the beginning of each interview, OIE staff including Abdnour — were told that the investigation did not pertain to any union-related activity. These witnesses were told that such information was not being sought as it was not ‘elevantto the investigation. However Straka believed the information provided contextjust reviewed one of her own reports and Jayne doesn’t understand the problems with it.” Abdnour texted investigators that it took three hours to review Schuiteman’s report. Martinez said Abdnour was involved with an attorney named Deb Gordon which concerned her because Gordon had past conflict with Schuiteman regarding a case. Martinez said Straka told her Abdnour said “even better” when reminded of Gordon’s issue with Schuiteman. Martinez also said that Abdnour “could identify a target and a threat” and had done so with former- OIE Investigator Cat Riley. Martinez explained that Riley was not employed with MSU at the time she started her position, however Martinez heard many comments from Abdnour about Riley’s incompetence. Martinez said she heard Abdnour say to her, in front of Lin Chi Wang, Like with Cat, I wanted to make more money. To do that, I had to get rid of Cat.” Martinez said she responded that “you're talking like someone in a Lifetime movie.” Martinez stated she didn’t realize Abdnour had a role or part in Riley's termination and didn’t know if this was true or Abdnour’s perception. Martinez said Abdnour sent a text stating “Completely unrelated, what's the over under on whether she’s aware of the implications of Michigan’s one party recording statute? Asking for a friend.” Martinez said she did not know if Abdnour recorded her meeting with Schuiteman, however Martinez did know that Abdnour recorded a staff meeting. Martinez said Abdnour told investigators at the “emergency meeting” that she would record the meeting and her phone was face down during the meeting. Kaylie Straka — Insti \quity Investigator, OLE Kaylie Straka was interviewed March 6, 2018. Straka was informed that her conduct was not being investigated. Straka was informed of the non-retaliation policy. Straka provided a document outlining her own notes regarding matters she observed in the office. Straka reported she logged into Snapchat and identified an account belonging to Durojaiye. She said she read his name on Snapchat backward and “it was kind of gross.” She stated she mentioned this to Martinez and Spencer and Janelle Wildbur, the Administrative Assistant in OIE. Straka stated that Wildbur said she would address it with Durojaiye, and Durojaiye then deleted it, Straka said she heard Abdnour state ‘I knew it all along. I was storing that in case T needed it.” Straka stated that one day between February 12, 2018 and February 16, 2018 she walked into Martinez’s office. Straka stated Martinez was present and Spencer may have also been present but didn’t say much. Abdnour was stating that Schuiteman is an ineffective leader and that Schuiteman’s incident should be brought up as evidence Schuiteman is not a suitable Acting Director. Straka said everyone present did not agree with Abdnour, and stated this was not a suitable course of action, 5 MSU's HR System reflects a voluntary resignation effective January 1, 2016, 7Straka said in late January that Abdnour had said she “didn’t know iff Jayne was up for it.” Abdnour said Schuiteman was not as equipped to handle being Acting Director as others, Straka said Abdnour did not say she was speaking of herself (Abdnour) as being better suited, but that it was implied, Straka stated Abdnour told her that Durojaiye had told Abdnourshe would be Interim Director. Straka stated that she and Martinez. were present and possibly Spencer when Abdnour made these comments, Straka said the investigators met for lunch at Pizza House on February 16, 2018 to discuss general workplace concerns. She reported Abdnour making statements that: investigators jobs are at risk, that she (Abdnour) would do what she could to advocate for OIE with faculty, that Schuiteman and Norris tell her more than they tell other investigators, and that she (Abdnour) had better information about what was happening in regard to various changes. Straka reports that Abdnour did not ever say “come to her instead’ she said she had information and is available to discuss concems. Strake said Abdnour spoke of a faculty training just prior to the lunch, Straka said Abdnour said there were questions and she felt compelled to answer questions more bluntly than saying “we didn’t have resources.” Abdnour also commented that the issue of Schuiteman not having a JD came up, and faculty members expressed they were equally qualified to be the Director of OIR, Straka stated she was not aware if the faculty or Abdnour raised the matter of Schuiteman not having a law degree. Straka expressed that Abdnour told investigators if anything was said about what Abdnour said in the lunch meeting, Abdnour would say what the other investigators said, Straka stated that “nobody else said anything like what she said.” Straka stated Abdnour asked her to come to Abdnour’s office on February 19, 2018. Straka assumed it was about a case and brought her work notes. Straka said Abdnour said “Jayne said I ‘was insubordinate.” Abdnour said Schuiteman addressed concems that she had told investigators to come to her instead of Schuiteman. Straka said Abdnour didn’t say “instead” and that “She said and or not at all.” Straka stated that Abdnour asked her if she knew who told Schuiteman about the meeting. Straka stated she told Abdnour she didn’t know and suggested a man at the restaurant wearing a green sweater. Straka stated she believed Martinez to be the one who told Schuiteman but wasn’t going to tell Abdnour that because she didn’t want Abdnour to target Martinez, Straka reported that Abdnour then called Tracy Leahy to join the meeting. Straka said Abdnour then told Tracy of her conversation with Schuiteman, Straka said Leahy then recommended that Abdnour record what she remembers from the meeting and when asked by Abdnour, suggested some attomeys. One attorney she recommended was Gordon. Abdnour and Straka then recalled that Gordon hed a case with Jayne. Leahy then said “just call the others, they'll be fine.” Straka reported Abdnour’s response was “No, I love it, I want to call Deb Gordon.” Straka recalled Abdnour saying “Deb Gordon hates Jayne.” Straka stated on February 21, 2018 that Abdnour called her into Abdnour’s office and asked Straka ifshe was interested in finding things about Schuiteman, Straka claimed she declined and basically said no. Straka states Abdnour did not say why she wanted the information. 8Straka reported Abdnour saying “I have something on Jayne.” Straka stated it was an OIE case. She reported Abdnour speaking about FOLA and that she has “friends” she can do things through so it’s not traced back to her. Straka reported Abdnour saying the “Sex assault community would be upset if anything happened to her.” Straka stated Abdnour suggesting to FOIA the Kroll contract and investigations Jessica Norris had done at her prior institution. Straka stated Abdnour also stated she had asked Melanie Trowbridge for something about Jayne. Straka did not know specifically was that was. Straka said on February 21, 2018 she spoke with Martinez and Spencer because she was uncomfortable with Abdnour. Straka said Martinez would speak with someone. She said this was reassuring because Abdnour had said more about exposing the incident involving Schuiteman. Straka said there were discussions about recording conversations. Straka didn’t know if Abdnour ever recorded, Straka said Abdnour implied it would be a good idea but could not recall specific comments. Straka stated it was a reasonable assumption that Abdnour was trying to get Schuiteman removed or fired. She stated within a couple weeks of Schuiteman assuming role as Acting Director that Abdnour said she didn’t think Schuiteman was suitable and that there was “stuff out there about Jayne” but didn’t say what it was. Straka didn’t recall any specific statements. Straka said Abdnour made comments about Schuiteman missing things when reviewing reports; that she had “screwed up” an investigation and got dates wrong; doesn’t think Schuiteman does quality work; and shouldn’t be doing director's work. Straka did not recall any comments about taking a vote of no confidence, Straka stated someone said to stay silent at a meeting once, but did not recall if it was Abdnour. Straka stated Abdnour has said that Norris has other motives than just protecting the office, namely preserving her own, job. Straka reported Abdnour stated Norris only cares about herself. Straka said ‘no one really took her notions seriously.” Straka stated Abdnour has, in the past, made statements that “I got Cat fired” and “would tell stories about how bad Cat was.” Straka spoke of Abdnour having a “particular personality” and stated “She’s kind of scary.” Straka also either withheld information or provided false information to Abdnour because she was uncomfortable and feared Abdnour would retaliate. One particular instance mentioned above related to Ms. Martinez. Straka said she was “terrified” what would happen next with Abdnour. Straka stated Abdnour was being “ableist”. Straka stated she felt that “she would use someone’s medical treatment against themselves was terrible.” Straka thought the issue should be raised because of the “Cat Riley statement.” Straka stated Abdnour said she would approach someone in authority. Straka said Abdnour said “Engler.” Straka said Abdnour stated they have a moral imperative to disclose information, Straka said she stated that “we have a moral imperative NOT to disclose it." Straka provided an e-mail she sent to herself on February 23, 2018 which she said documented conversations with Abdnour. This e-mail discusses suggestions by Abdnour that “we approach someone in a position of authority (likely President Engler and/or Vice President and Special 9Counsel Carol Viventi) and reveal information regarding Dr. Schuiteman’s legal history, medical history and prior work for OIE.” It also states that Abdnour referenced a “moral imperative” to disclose this information, but that Straka felt a moral imperative “not to disclose” this information. Straka’s e-mail also referenced an incident on February 20 or 21, 2018 dering which Abdnour asked if Straka was interested in collecting information on Schuiteman. The e-mail also expressed concem that Abdnour would engage in intimidation and pressure others into support of Abdnour’s goals. In the e-mail, Straka expressed “fear or retaliation from Ms. Abdnour.” Lauren Spencer itutional Equity Investigator, OTE Lauren Spencer was interviewed March 7, 2018. Spencer was informed that her conduct was not being investigated. Spencer was informed of the non-retaliation policy. Spencer said several months ago she and Martinez went to the Sparty’s at the Administration Building, Spencer stated she saw Durojaiye and Abdnour sitting in the corner. Spencer stated that Abdnour told her Durojaiye had told Abdnour she would be Acting Ditector when they were at Sparty’s. She also reported Abdnour told her Durojaiye told Abdnour “by the way, you're not going to be Acting Director” five minutes before the meeting at which Schuiteman was announced as Acting Director. Spencer stated that, Abdnour had stated she didn't want the position of Acting Director. Spencer stated this comment was made before the meeting at Sparty’s. Spencer also said she didn’t believe Abdnour’s statement as Abdnour often “looks to other positions of power in the office.” Spencer stated during a meeting of investigators prior toa full staff meeting, Abdnour talked about recording meetings. Spencer did not recall the specific words which were used, and did not specifically recall other instances where this took place. Spencer said Abdnour argued that there was an ethical obligation to tell someone about ‘Schuiteman’s incident. She stated Abdnour said Abdnour “can just tell Academic HR and the ball is in their court.” Spencer then said she talked with Martinez and Straka regarding Abdnour’s comments, Spencer stated it was difficult to determine Abdnour’s intent, and stated Abdnour claimed it was “for the good of the office”, but Spencer felt Abdnour was doing what was best for Abdnour. Spencer stated it was surprising that Abdnour would use a medical emergency against Schuiteman. Spencer reported that Abdnour suggested using FOIA to request work Nortis had done prior to coming to MSU. Spencer said Abdnour talked about getting Norris’ past investigations. Spencer said she heard Abdnour make comments about using information about Schuiteman already in her possession. Spencer indicated this took place in a context of a leadership change in OIE and the University, and an outside firm coming in to work with OIE, Through text, Spencer said Abdnour referenced a case Schuiteman had investigated. Spencer stated Abdnour was making other investigators aware that Schuiteman had made a wrong decision on the case. Spencer said she responded through a private text to Abdnour saying “Hey, this would be horrible.” Spencer said she didn’t want Schuiteman to be Acting Director, but didn’t want Schuiteman to “go out like 10this” due to a bad decision. OER asked that Spencer share her texts with Abdnour. On March 14, 2018, Spencer informed OER through an e-mail that she would not share those texts. Spencer said Abdnour shared she was reprimanded for insubordination. However, Spencer said it was never suggested at the lunch meeting that investigators go to Abdnour instead of Schuiteman, Spencer said it was frequently her practice to go to Abdnour. She said a lot of people went to Abdnour because she was “super smart” about policies and practices. Spencer vaguely recalled a joking text about a vote of no confidence. She said it never struck her as anything that would happen. Spencer said prior to a staff’ meeting the idea of not speaking at the meeting was “tossed around.” She stated it was after a difficult week and intense exchanges with “reply all button.” She stated that Abdnour said she wasn’t going to speak and then spoke more than anyone. Spencer stated it wasn’t an organized plan. Spencer recalled criticism of Schuiteman not having a JD. Spencer stated she also engaged in this criticism of Schuiteman’s appointment as Acting Director. She stated that having a legal background is helpful to their work in OIE. She stated questions come up and Schuiteman has to ask the Office of General Counsel. She stated it was not a suggestion that Schuiteman was not intelligent, but that it would be helpful as the leader of an office like OIE. Spencer stated there was general grumbling of “With Jessica and Jayne in charge, OI was led by the two people without law degrees.” Spencer stated she heard people alluding to the general sentiment that Schuiteman is not qualified to be Acting Director. Spencer also stated that Abdnour “may think she should be director but how she acts interpersonally, probably not.” Spencer stated there are some things in which Schuiteman is “amazing” including providing feedback. Spencer stated Abdnour said “Anybody would be a better director than Jayne, like our legal fellow.” She stated it was sent by text around February shor ot Spencer said she did not recall Abdnour making any statements regarding Religious Studies faculty ‘raining, Spencer recalls Abdnour making comments about Cat Riley, but not comments about getting Riley fired. Spencer did not recall being called into Abdnour’s office to discuss Schuiteman. Spencer also stated she does not believe Senior Investigators are supervisors. Spencer also stated that Abdnour told OIE investigators about a conversation between Schuiteman and the Office of Employee Relations. Spencer stated that Abdnour made the comment at a lunch meeting at an investigator’s, home. Spencer reported Abdnour had been in the meeting but was excused at some point. Spencer stated Abdnour told the group the topic that was discussed after Abdnour was excused (compensatory time). Spencer stated that Abdnour stated she heard this by listening outside of the door to the meeting room. aSpencer also stated that Abdnour’s comments seemed legitimate at first, but were used to “stir the pot” and create chaos. Spencer also stated that Abdnour was aware of the former Director's inappropriate Snapchat name, but stated Abdnour did not report it so she could use it later. Spencer stated it was “concerning” to hear that Abdnour would retain information for future use. On March 14, 2018, Spencer sent an e-mail to OER staff. ‘concerning her irterview. That e-mail read, in substantive part, as follow: Lam writing to follow up on our meeting, In fairness to both Liz and the process, T would like add information that I recalled about the context of some of the allegations. First, with regard to Jayne’s accident, I recalled that prior to my conversation with Liz, it had been suggested (not by Liz) the possibility that Jayne might be experiencing some cognitive impairment. This was based on observations of her being forgetful, both in regards to things she had previously been told or had told us, as well as trailing off and forgetting what she was saying during at least one meeting. This could also be due to stress and fatigue, but was initially raised as a legitimate concem. I do not know if Liz had a genuine concern about Jayne’s cognition, but given that Liz discussed not only going to Academic HR, but a duty to do so, I think it is relevant for you to consider. Second, in regards to Liz recording meetings, I believe that it is relevant for you to consider both that she was not the only investigator to do so and the context in which recording meetings occurred. Investigators had been (and still are) very frustrated with poor communication in the office, including being told different things hath week to week and from one another. While I do not know Liz’s intention with regard to recording, my general understanding of why people were recording ‘was to have a record of statements in the likely event we would be told something different later. Finally, after careful consideration and consultation, I am respectfully declining to share the text messages exchanged between Liz and me. Please let me know if you have any questions, Nicole Schmidtke ~ Institutional Equity Investigator, OTE Nicole Schmidtke was interviewed March 13, 2018 with APA Union Representative, Melanie Waltz present. Schmidtke was informed that her conduct was not being investigated. Schmidtke was informed of the non-retaliation policy. 2Nicole stated she has not heard Abdnour state she was going to be, or wanted to be, Acting Director of OIE, Schmidtke stated she heard Abdnour mention applying for the job if it were an open process and that this comment was made in Abdnour’s office after the meeting in which Durojaiye announced he was leaving the University. ‘Schmidtke said she has heard Abdnour make comments concerning Schuiteman’s qualifications for the acting role. Schmidike could not recall how many times or specific comments. Schmidtke stated she has heard comments that the Director should be an attorney and have a background in civil rights law. Schmidtke didn’t know if these comments were directed specifically at Schuiteman. She recalls the statements to be verbal only. Schmidtke did not recall Abdnour making comments or sending texts regarding a vote of no confidence. Schmidtke also did not recall Abdnour making any comments or sending texts referencing causing chaos. Schmidtke did not recall any texts or comments about causing a revolution. However, Schmidtke also recalled a large number of texts, and stated does not recall all of them, Schmidtke remembered Abdnour stating she was going to be quiet during a staff meeting but continued to give her opinion, Schmidtke stated Abdnour has not directed her to remain silent. Schmidtke stated Abdnour has made comments about recording meetings and did record a staff meeting. Schmidtke could not recall the date but believed the meeting to be about Kroll. Schmidtke stated Abdnour has made a lot of comments about recording meetings, however she never saw Abdnour actually record a meeting. Schmidtke stated that Abdnour has admitted to her that she has recorded meetings. Schmidtke said she has not heard Abdnour make comments that she was going to reveal personal information from Schuiteman’s past. She stated she heard something similar about Abdnour from Straka, Schmidtke stated she did not hear Abdnour make comments about getting Schuiteman removed from the position, but did hear comments that she was unhappy about Schuiteman being Acting Director. Schmidtke stated she has heard that from others. Schmidtke described that she’s heard concern about Schuiteman’s fitness for the position. Schmidtke stated these comments were not malicious. Schmidtke said she has not heard Abdnour ask her or others to help find information on Schuiteman or Norris, Schmidtke said she heard Abdnour comment about FOIA, specifically the Kroll contract. Schmidtke said Abdnour referred to training she did for the Religious Studies Department. Schmidtke said this happened when investigators met for lunch, Schmidtke reported that Abdnour said there was a lot of concerns about mandatory reporting; that nobody wants to be a mandatory reporter. Schmidtke recalled Abdnour stating she talked about Schuiteman’s qualifications at that meeting. She said Abdnour reported a faculty member found out Schuiteman was Acting Director and said “so I can be Acting Director” in reference to Schuiteman having a PhD and not a JD. Schmidtke did not know who raised the issue of Schuiteman not having a JD. 23Initially, Schmidtke stated she had not heard discussion about talking with staff from Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights (OCR) or anyone else. Schmidtke then added that she recalled Abdnour joking that she “should go talk to the OCR people.” However, Schmidtke understood it to be a joke, not a concrete plan. Schmidtke said Abdnour did not say what she would talk to OCR about. Schmidtke said the statement was made at the time “they were literally banging on the door of suite four which is how we learned about that.” Schmidtke stated that she did not hear Abdnour reference reporting illegal activity. Schmidtke recalls Abdnour making a lot of comments referencing Riley’s fitness for her position. She recalls Abdnour saying she wanted Riley fired, but not that she got Riley fired. Schmidtke stated no conversations occurred discussing that Schuiteman had done anything illegal or violated a law. Schmidtke also stated Abdnour did not direct Schmidtke to go to Abdnour insteed of Schuiteman, though she often went to Abdnour for help. Schmidtke stated Abdnour did make a statement about listening outside the door of the conference room when Schuiteman was meeting with staff from OER. Schmidtke stated Abdnour told her the meeting related to union issues, and that Schuiteman was complaining about investigators bringing up issues of compensatory time. Schmidtke believes Abdnour used the word “bitching”. Schmidtke reported that Abdnour told her she was listening through the door. Schmidtke did not recall where she was when she was told this. Schmidtke stated Abdnour did not make any statements about Durojaiye’s Snapehat name to her. Schmidtke states she has concerns with someone being in the Director position who is not an attorney or does not have comparable experience in Civil Rights law. She stated Schuiteman does not have experience in civil rights law and is overseeing ADP investigations, Lin Chi Wang ~ Institutional Equity Investigator, OIF, Lin Chi Wang was interviewed March 13, 2018 with APA Union Representative, Melanie Waltz present, Wang was informed that her conduct was not being investigated. Wang was informed of the non-retaliation policy. Wang said Abdnour commented once about becoming Interim Director. Wang said Abdnour told her that Durojaiye told Abdnour she would be Interim Director after he leaves. The day it was announced Schuiteman would be Interim Director, Durojaiye told Abdnour former-President Simon wanted someone that “would say yes to her. That was not Liz. That was Jayne.” The only verbatim quote Wang recalled is that “The president wanted someone that would say yes to her.” Wang stated Abdnour told her this sometime after Schuiteman started the Acting Director role. ‘The conversation took place in Wang’s office and was a verbal conversatior. ‘Wang stated Abdnour did not indicate that she wanted to be Interim Directo. ‘Wang recalled Abdnour commenting about Schuiteman’s qualifications more than once or twice Specifically, she remembered Abdnour saying Schuiteman was not qualified. Wang stated there 14as more than one conversation about Schuiteman not being qualified. Wang did not recall who ‘was present in each. Wang stated many investigators were having conversations and did not know what was going on. She stated they were talking because they didn't have a sense of transparency in communication. Wang did not recall if texts between the investigators included comments about Schuiteman’s qualifications to be Acting Director. Wang recalled Abdnour commenting about Schuiteman not having a law degree. Wang stated everyone knows all of the investigators are attorneys except for Schuiteman. Wang stated Abdnour had raised this prior to Durojaiye leaving, but not in a disparaging way. After Schuiteman assumed the role of Acting Director, Wang recalls Abdnour raising concems that Schuiteman and Norris, are not attorneys and all of the investigators are attorneys. Wang did not recall who else was present or the context in which the comment was raised. ‘Wang did recall Abdnour suggesting a vote of no confidence in Schuiteman be held. Wang stated the comment was verbal. Wang recalled this being in a context of determining what investigators could do. Wang stated Abdnour made a comment in reference to making chaos. Wang said she did not specifically remember her say ‘seizing power through chaos.” Wang stated Abdnour made the comment “I like chaos” verbally. Wang did not recall when the comment was made, where it was made, or who else was present besides herself. Wang stated Abdnour made the comment at least ‘once and that it was possible it was more than once. Wang stated Abdnour’s comment referenced chaos in OIE. Wang did not hear Abdnour make any comments, or see any texts or emails from Abdnour, about joining the revolution or a vow of silence. Wang said Abdnour said she had started recording meetings with Schuiteman because Schuiteman ‘would often not remember what Schuiteman said or what was discussed. Wang did not remember ‘Abdnour saying she recorded a staff meeting. Wang said the comments were made after Schuiteman began as Acting Director. Wang did not recall where comments were made or if anyone else was present. ‘Wang said she heard Abdnour speak of revealing personal details of Schuiteman’s past on two occasions. The first conversation occurred in Wang’s office with no other person present. Wang said Abdnour was “throwing out” this thought that she had about revealing Schuiteman’s criminal record which was public. Wang said she responded that it was a bad idea and “would be catastrophic to Jayne, This is public information, she (Abdnour) doesn’t have to reveal anything.” Wang recalled Abdnour questioned whether it was ethical to have an Interim Director in place with a criminal record, and claimed it went to Schuiteman’s competence as Interim Director. ‘Wang stated it was implied that Schuiteman would be removed from the position after this {formation revealed, but that Abdnour never specifically said that. Wang stated she discouraged Abdnour and Abdnour responded “Okay, that’s why I wanted to talk to you about it.” 15‘Wang said the second conversation occurred in Abdnour’s office. Wang said she went to Abdnour for advice on work and investigations and to vent about issues. Wang stated she may have been complaining about case assignments or Kroll. Wang said Abdnour asked “So what do you think of the Nuclear Option?” Wang said Abdnour was speaking of revealing Schuiteman’s criminal record. Wang stated her response to Abdnour was that “it was a really bad idea.” Wang said during the second conversation that Abdnour responded with “okay I trust your opinion, I’m not going to do anything.” Wang said she was not surprised to hear Abdnour bring it up a second time, Wang said she didn’t think she was serious but that Abdnour, and others in the office are opinionated and “people will just say things.” Wang stated not a lot surprises her. Wang did not recall any time the same topic arose when she was at the courter in OIE, nor when Martinez. was present. Wang said Abdnour has made comments about Riley more than once. Wang said she has not heard Abdnour comment about playing a role in Riley being terminated. Wang stated she has heard Abdnour comment that Riley made inappropriate comments in the office and to parties she ‘was investigating. Wang did not recall specific comments. Wang stated she did not hear Abdnour say she wanted Schuiteman removed from her role. Wang did not hear Abdnour ask people to look for information regarding either Schuiteman or Nomis. ‘Wang said she did not hear Abdnour talk about reporting any concerns with OIE or Sehuiteman to OCR investigators, Interim President Engler or any other person. Wang said that Abdnour discussed a training for Religious Studies faculty. Wang said this came up at a lunch with the investigators at Pizza House. Wang reported Abdnour said the training “went sideways”. Wang said Abdnour said the faculty were asking questions not specifie tn training; and stated they had no confidence in OIE and that OIE was not etedible. Wang said Abdnour stated she stopped training, and sat down with the faculty to hear their concems. Wang does rot recall Abdnour mentioning Schuiteman not having a law degree at this time. Wang did not recall a time when Abdnour told her to come to Abdnour with questions rather than Schuiteman, ‘Wang said Abdnour did say she had listened to a conversation between Schuiteman and OER staff. Wang stated Abdnour told her Abdnour had just finished a meeting with Schuiteman and Employee Relations. Abdnour had stepped out and overheard Schuitemen and OER talking through the door. Abdnour told Wang that Schuiteman was complaining about investigators asking about compensatory time, Wang did not recall where her conversation with Abdnour took place or who else may have been present. Wang said after Durojaiye left MSU, Abdnour said she knew about Durojaiye’s Snapchat account, ‘Wang said the conversation occurred in Wang’s office. Wang did not recall the context of the meeting or whom else was present. Wang made the following statement upon closing of the interview: 16“Liz was not alone in raising concems about the direction of the department. All of us had concerns. We were getting cases, it felt like case were getting dumped on us. Got over 30 each month already with a full case load since Mwaniasha left. All under stress any way. Has been a general feeling of lack of leadership in our office. Director role is a vital role, Needs to be an expert in everything we do. Who can make quick decisions and have our back. Felt none of those qualities were present. Will just tell you. I have voiced this to Jayne, We feel disrespected, unsupported. Very low morale in the department. Voiced this pretty early on after she was placed in that position. Nothing was done. Investigators were never asked or consulted on what we need as an Interim Director, or what resources did we need. Yesterday, I walk into the office and there’s eight people from Kroll in the office. We were told initially there would be four investigators. Eight Kroll people in office. More upstairs. Place crawling with people we don’t know. No heads up. Never communicated to us and still hasn’t been communicated to us about why so many people. Feels that there is a lack of communication. Lack of transparency. Lack of leadership. Lack of respect and trust, within the office. It was not like this when I first joined OIE. ‘There was a team atmosphere. People got along. We all talked. I don’t talk to anyone anymore. I sit in my office and do my work. A very, very different environment.” Abdnour provided a February 9, 2018 e-mail from Wang to Schuiteman which Wang forwarded to all of the investigators. This e-mail addressed an e-mail from Schuiteman concerning coming to work ona snowy day. It also address Wang’s perception of a lack of support and respect, feeling overworked and overwhelmed and a low morale in OIE. Tracy Li Grievances, OIE ‘Tracy Leahy was interviewed March 15, 2018. Leahy was informed that her conduct was not being investigated. Leahy was informed of the non-retaliation policy. ir. In tor_and Deput Leahy said Abdnour told her that Durojaiye told Abdnour that she (Abdnour) was going to be named Acting Director. Leahy said Abdnour told her this took place during a lunch at Sparty’s. Abdnour also told Leahy she (Abdnour) had a subsequent conversation with Durojaiye. Abdnour reported to Leahy that Durojaiye told Abdnour that he had recommended Abdnour to then- President Simon who rejected that idea because Simon perceived Abdnour to be too close to the Sexual Assault programs Leahy said Abdnour did not express whether or not she wanted to be Acting Director. Leahy’s understanding is that Abdnour had mixed emotions about it. Leahy said there were more than one conversation about Schuiteman’s qualifications for the Acting Director role. She stated “It became obvious within days of victim impact statements of the impact those statements were going to have on University and OIE. That was a substantial uptake in cases we were seeing. Questions investigators had on specific cases of the processing of complaints and protocol within the office. Lack of leadership that existed prior to Schuiteman 7became a huge problem once we were bombarded when complaints started coming in. Complaints started after investigators all received five or six new cases from Schuiteman on a Saturday. Many of which were duplicates. Some of which should never have been assigned in the first place.” Leahy stated that Schuiteman did not seem to appreciate that her methods of assigning cases created an enormous amount of work. This was aggravated by the context of needing to address cases promptly. Leahy said she had mutual, private conversations with Abdnour that Schuiteman didn’t have the qualifications to be Acting Director. Leahy stated Abdnour told her Durojaiye had trained Schuiteman to use Advocate to do public reports. However it was evident Schuiteman had no recollection of how to do them. Leahy stated Abdnour spent time retraining Schuiteman, but problems persisted to the point Abdnour took over the public reporting function. Leahy stated Abdnour also provided advice to Schuiteman on a daily basis on specific issues and how to answer investigator's questions. Leahy stated she wasn’t present for conversations between Abdnour and Schuiteman, Leahy stated that other investigators expressed concem that Schuiteman does1’t have a law degree Leahy stated Abdnour may have been part of that discussion. Leahy declined to state who made the comment but stated Abdnour did state the “Acting Director should have a legal background.” Leahy did not recall Abdnour commenting about a vote of no confidence, trying to cause chaos, or trying to cause a revolution, Leahy stated someone spoke about remaining silent at a staff meeting, Leahy recalled a discussion in Leahy’s office prior to the February 12, 2018 staff meeting when Abdnour said she was going to remain silent during the staff meeting, Leahy recalled following the meeting that Abdnour said “I was going to remain silent but I did not.” Leahy said if texts or emails exist on this topic, she doesn’t remember them. Leahy said communications took place by text and by email. Email communications began on February 9, 2018 through private email to discuss how to raise investigators’ concerns. Leahy said a memo was created by an investigator that she did not want her name on. Leahy declined to say who the investigator was, but stated it was not Abdnour. Leahy said she had not participated in emails on February 9 or texts except one involving Durojaiye. Leahy stated she didn’t believe Durojaiye to be relevant because he no longer worked there. Leahy said she did not hear Abdnour comment about recording meetings with Schuiteman specifically. Leahy stated she hear Abdnour comment about recording meetings generally, Leahy said she knew Abdnour was recording staff meetings as were other investigators to have for own follow up if necessary. Leahy recalled three (3) conversations about in which Abdnour made comments about revealing a criminal matter involving Schuiteman. Leahy said the first conversation was between Leahy and Abdnour either in person or by telephone. Leahy recalled Abdnour asking hypothetically “What if Jayne’s prior driving under the influence 18became public knowledge?” Leahy said she told Abdnour she doesn’t recommend that and won't participate in that. She stated she didn’t want Schuiteman to have that public humiliation. Leahy did not recall Abdnour’s response, though she said Abdnour did not take any action on the idea she presented as a hypothetical. Leahy stated she saw Abdnour do just the opposite in her interactions with Schuiteman by doing her job, writing applicant questions and putting together spreadsheets to score applicants, Leahy said the second conversation pertaining to Schuiteman’s incident occurred on February 19, 2018. Leahy said Abdnour asked her to come to Abdnour’s office. Leahy stated Straka was in the office. Leahy said Abdnour said Schuiteman had accused her of insubordination. Leahy stated the issue of publicly disclosing information regarding Schuiteman’s prior incident was brought up. Leahy stated her response was the same as the first conversation. Leahy said during the third conversation Abdnour stated she had spoken to her partner and decided she was never going to act on making that information public. Leahy stated no other person was present for the third conversation. Leahy said she knows this conversation was not referenced in texts or emails. Leahy stated she was called into Abdnour’s office and Abdnour said Schuiteman had accused Abdnour of insubordination. Leahy said she made a recommendation to Abdnour of two (2) attomeys. She stated she had forgotten that one was involved in litigation involving one of Schuiteman’s cases. Leahy said Abdnour chose that person as the one she wanted to contact Leahy said she recalled Abdnour commenting that she liked the fact that the person Leahy had recommended had been involved in a previous matter involving Schuiteman in her role as investigator. Leahy stated Straka was also in Abdnout’s office during the conversation. Leahy did not recall any discussion in which Abdnour asked people to search for information on Abdnour or Norris. Leahy stated she did recall Abdnour suggesting issuing a FOIA to Norvis’ former university for copies of Norris’ reports as an investigator. Leahy stated she responded “that’s up to you, I’m not going to be a part of it.” Leahy recalled that by the end of the conversation Abdnour agreed with Leahy and wouldn’t do it. Leahy said Abdnour said the point was to demonstrate that Nottis may not be the expert she was holding herself out to be. Leahy stated she responded that “Jessica is an expert. She knows what she’s doing. Writing is skilled, Advice is sound. If they didn’t have her as a resource we'd be in even more trouble.” Leahy stated she did not hear Abdnour say she would report anything to OCR or to anyone intemal or extemal. Leahy said Abdnour may have hypothetically said they could go to the President but ‘no one mentioned the Board of Trustees. Leahy did not have any specific memory of such comments. Leahy recalled at lunch on February 16, 2018 during which Abdnour described a faculty training that was very difficult. She stated Abdnour said she couldn’t perform the training because so many questions arose about OIE. Leahy heard Abdnour say Abdnour was answering their questions to restore confidence in OIE. Leahy heard Abdnour state that faculty were asking why a non-lawyer 1gwas appointed as Acting Director. Leahy did not specifically recall Abdnour’s response to that faculty question. Leahy recalls Abdnour and others making comments about Riley in the past. Leahy had no recent ‘memory of such comments, Leahy has not heard Abdnour tell investigators to come to her with cuestions rather than Schuiteman, Leahy reported that Abdnour said she was in a meeting with Schuiteman and staff from OER. Abdnour told Leahy that she overheard Schuiteman ask how to handle compensatory time involving collectively bargained investigators. Leahy said Abdnour didn't share that she had already left the meeting when she overheard that, Abdnour did not share how she overheard it Leahy recalled Straka and Spencer coming into her office, She reported Spencer had a screen shot of Durojaiye’s Snapchat user name. Leahy stated they told her it said “Pornking12” or something like that backward. Leahy said she advised Spencer and Straka to report it to Schuiteman or Norris. Leahy said she subsequently became aware that Abdnour had become aware of it while Durojaiye was still working for the University. Leahy stated Abdnour did not report it because she didn’t believe it to be a policy violation. Leahy did not recall any comment from Abdnour that she intended to use the information later. When given opportunity to voice her concerns, Leahy stated: Liz is an extremely bright and valued member of our department, despite private confidential conversations in moment of crisis in our department and the University. She raised questions about certain things that she never acted on, as far as I know. Acted contrary to those discussions in fact. She is an extremely valuable resource to investigators, Jayne and Jessica. Original member to our department. Instrumental in writing policy. Knows Advocate. Writes amendments to RVSM. Expert in advocate. In Ande’s absence had assumed responsibility for assigning cases A member of VSC. Great community relations. Great speaker, trainer, writer. Somebody who wanted to do right by the University. To provide the best department OIE could be. Worked very hard at that for two years. Even during all of these discussions, she provided support to Jayne and did Jayne's job in part. She took over all public reporting, Did it right. Made the job casier for investigators as a result. Source for investigators’ questions with sound rational responses. It ‘would be a loss if she’s no longer a member of our department, With respect to director position — it is an extremely difficult position. Minefields in every decision. Every day several of them. You need an extremely competent, informed, educated person to perform that job. [like Jayne a lot. She’s a very nice person but the decision to appoint her as Acting Director at the moment in time she was appointed, in circumstances that existed is one of the dumbest decisions anyone has ever made, Needed someone that could make sound decisions supported with rational reason. That was not occurring. I was assigned an investigation involving a grad student, involving a high-ranking individual, Lin Chi had completed that already when I was assigned. Was a sexual harassment case. When I leamed Lin Chi had already done it, wehad a conversation about Lin Chi taking on that case. It was a hostile work environment and 20another claim. Jayne wanted it separate and didn’t understand 101 of hostile work environment involving more than one person. Instead of assigning new claimant to Lin Chi. I was assigned to reach out to her, gather documents in a meeting that took several hours. In addition to two one- hour meetings, a colossal waste of time, Numerous examples that made working under the circumstances extremely difficult. Those are all my personal opinions about those things. A final thing, this is not all Jayne’s fault. She was put in an extremely difficult situation at the worst time to come in and try to deal with these issues. Some problems preexisted due to lack of leadership when Ande was director. These became acute and exacerbated due to conditions and workload, interim Director and Deputy Title IX Coordinator for Inv. Jayne Schuiteman was interviewed March 15, 2018, Schuiteman was informed that her conduct was not being investigated. Schuiteman was informed of the non-retaliation policy. tigati Schuiteman said she was appointed Acting Director January 15,2018. Schuiteman said Durojaiye left the previous Friday. Schuiteman stated she has previously held positions as faculty in Department of Human Relations and GENCEN and was the director of the Womens” Resource Center. Schuiteman said she got her Ph.D. in 1990. Schuiteman stated she does not have a law degree. Schuiteman said the role of the Senior Investigator has administrative responsibilities in addition to investigations. These include both RVSM and ADP investigations; complete more difficult investigations; conduct trainings for academic side and coordinate those trainings, Schuiteman said Senior Investigators are involved in mentoring of investigators; providing feedback to draft reports. Schuiteman stated Durojaiye looked at both draft and final reports. Schuiteman has asked Senior Investigators to look at draft reports and she is looking at final reports. Schuiteman said Abdnour was assigning cases in Advocate for a short period while Durojaiye was gone. Abdnour also did public case reports when Schuiteman became Acting Director. Schuiteman stated Abdnour would have had the same leadership or mentorship role as any Senior Investigator. Schuiteman stated she had two conversations with Abdnour prior to Abdnour being placed on suspension pending investigation. Schuiteman said one conversation was about an email series Abdnour had produced with a faculty member that was a mandatory reporter. The mandatory reporter was not terribly forthcoming with a name. Schuiteman said the mandatory reporter wanted to protect her graduate students. Schuiteman said Abdnour copied her on the emails in which Abdnour’s emails became more and more aggressive. Schuiteman said she had to intervene and apologize to the faculty. Schuiteman said she talked to Abdnour, Schuiteman couldn't recall iffthis was done verbally or in an email. Schuiteman did not recall the date of this communication, Dut stated it would have been toward the end of the email string. 2Schuiteman said the second conversation was because Martinez had told Schuiteman that Abdnour was trying to stir up investigators and had insisted investigators come to Abdnour instead of Schuiteman. Schuiteman said she told Abdnour that she didn’t know if that happened, but that if it did, it would be grounds for insubordination, Schuiteman said this was on February 13" during Abdnour’s one-on-one meeting. Schuiteman stated she and Jessica Norris made the decision together to place Abdnour on suspension pending investigation. Schuiteman stated that, on a Friday evening, many investigators ‘went to Norris stating they have to tell her what was going on; “Liz had done XYZ and afraid of what she might do.” Schuiteman said Norris then came to her and said Norris wouldn't share details, but that it wasn’t good. Schuiteman said Norris went to Interim President Engler. Norris recommended an investigation and suspension pending. Schuiteman said Norris said we need to suspend and as Acting Director, I need to be part of that decision. Schuiteman said Norris specifically told her about: a series of text messages; that Abdnour was trying to get information about Schuiteman that could be hurtful; and that Abdnour had met with investigators separately and had said talk to Abdnour and circumvent her (Schuiteman). Schuiteman said Abdnour did not ever discuss any concems with Schuiteman that Schuiteman wes serving as the Acting Director. Schuiteman stated that Abdnour never told Schuiteman that Abdnour had problems with Schuiteman’s performance. Schuiteman said Abdnour never told her that Abdnour did not want her to be Acting Director. Schuiteman said she knew that Abdnour wanted the position, and that Durojaiye had told Abdnour she was going to be Acting Director. ‘Schuiteman stated Norris told her that about an hour prior to the announcement that Schuiteman would be appointed as Acting Director. Schuiteman stated she was told that Abdnour was pretty upset. Schuiteman said Abdnour never talked to her about Schuiteman’s knowledge or skills as an investigator and that nobody else told Schuiteman that Abdnour had those concerns, Schuiteman said neither Abdnour, nor anyone else, told Schuiteman that Abdnour had concems about guidance Schuiteman was giving investigators Schuiteman said neither Abdnour nor anyone else told Schuiteman that Abdnour had concems about Schuiteman’s investigations or certain kinds of investigations. Schuiteman stated Abdnour did not bring concerns to her that Schuiteman couldn't manage the flow of work at OIE. Schuiteman said Abdnour did not raise concerns that she reached a wrong conclusion during an investigation. Schuiteman said Durojaiye would have had those conversations with her. Schuiteman referenced a case whete Durojaiye said there was a case of sexual contact and Schuiteman asked why Durojaiye viewed it that way. Schuiteman said this conversation occurred before the final draft was written ‘Schuiteman stated that Durojaiye reviewed all drafts as well as final reports. Schuiteman said now Abdnour reviews RVSM drafts and Leahy reviews ADP drafts. 22Schuiteman stated neither Abdnour, nor anyone else, reported that Abdnour had concerns with Schuiteman’s analysis on cases. Schuiteman said she was straight forward with Interim President Engler about the reason for a backlog of cases at OIE. Schuiteman stated nobody told her Abdnour had concerns regarding Schuiteman’s explanation of the backlog to Interim President Engler. Schuiteman said Abdnour did not raise any concern with her pertaining to Schuiteman’s decision about some respondents’ participation in an investigation Schuiteman conducted. ‘Schuiteman said she handled a case in which all of the claimants wished to remain anonymous. ‘Thus, they were made witnesses. Witnesses A-J wanted to remain anonymous so the investigation didn’t continue. Schuiteman said she had a conversation that OIE couldn’t move forward but there could be problems if the allegations were true. Schuiteman stated Durojaiye was involved in that decision. Schuiteman said Abdnour did not raise this issue to her. Schuiteman said Abdnour did not tell her that she (Schuiteman) wasn’t citing basic Title IX information. Schuiteman reported that no one else told her Abdnour had that concern, Schuiteman said Abdnour did not tell her that she (Schuiteman) had interfered with union activity. Schuiteman reported that no one else told her Abdnour had that concen. Schuiteman said neither Abdnour, nor anyone else, told her Abdnour said Schuiteman was not following up on tasks. Schuiteman admits she did forget things. Schuiteman said Abdnour never accused her of not reviewing FOIA requests and leaving them for investigators, Schuiteman said cach investigator is asked to provide their own information. She stated there was a FOIA, also involving Abdnour, which requested all communications that any of ‘our investigators had with Kroll investigators. Schuiteman said Abdnour never came to het with aconcem. Schuiteman said nobody else told her that Abdnour had raised concerns about FOIA. Schuiteman said she was not aware Abdnour had any concerns with Schuiteman when she made the decision with Norris to place Abdnour on suspension pending investigation. Schuiteman said Abdnour never told her Schuiteman violated Title IX or any other law. ‘Schuiteman said she was not told by anyone else that Abdnour had such a belief. ‘Schuiteman stated there was not a formal conversation about the presence of Kroll investigators. Schuiteman said she knew the investigators were not thrilled about Kroll. Schuiteman said Abdnour did not come to her about this, but may have expressed concerns at staff meetings. Schuiteman said neither Abdnour, nor anyone else, told her that Abdnour had concems about unethical conduct of University leaders regarding Title IX response. Schuiteman was not aware of any comment from Abdnour that she would report concerns to OCR, Interim President Engler, the State or anyone else. Schuiteman has not heard Abdnour comment about wanting to take a vote of no confidence and nobody told Schuiteman of such a comment, 23Schuiteman said she was not aware of Abdnour mentioning chaos or a revolution. When asked if Schuiteman had heard anyone comment about a “vow of silence” Schuiteman recalled Abdnour saying “I was not going to say something but I feel like I have to.” Schuiteman did not remember the context but thought it could have been about Kroll. ‘Schuiteman said she did not hear Abdnour make comments about recording meetings but that someone had made a reference to Abdnour recording meetings. Schuiteman did not recall who told her of this. Schuiteman stated Martinez told her directly that Abdnour made comments about revealing information about Schuiteman’s past. Schuiteman shared that she was arrested on suspicion of Griving under the influence stemming from a medication mix up. Schuiteman said she assumes, Abdnour is prepared to go to the press and make it public, and that Schuiteman received a FOIA request from Deadspin.com as relating to this topic. Schuiteman responded “yes” when asked if it is tre this is something she does not want made public. Schuiteman said she is not aware of Abdnour making other comments about looking for information about her or Norris. Schuiteman said Abdnour conducted a training in Religious Studies. The contact person was DeRogatis. Schuiteman said Abdnour said it was challenging with a lot of questions about process and whether the University could be trusted and that the faculty wanted to provide feedback to Abdnour about what could be done differently. Schuiteman said Abdnour did not relay concems from faculty about Schuiteman not having a JD. Schuiteman said she knew former-investigator Riley. Schuiteman stated that Martinez said that Abdnour told investigators that she had gotten Riley fired, and that she (Abdnour) could get anyone fired which had the investigators afraid, Schuiteman said Abdnour was not involved in Riley's separation. Schuiteman said at the time of Riley’s separation, Schuiteman had administrative duties and was the person to terminate Riley. Schuiteman stated that Rebecca Veidlinger was involved as a consultant, ‘Schuiteman stated she leamed from Norris and Martinez that Abdnour had allegedly told people to goto Abdnour instead of Schuiteman. Schuiteman said she was shown a document by Martinez that described some concems investigators had. Schuiteman stated thet Martinez. said the investigators wished to meet with Schuiteman without Norris present. Schuiteman said Martinez came back ten minutes later and said “I never gave you that document.” The investigators decided not to provide it. Schuiteman was never given, and did not retain, that document. Schuiteman stated she had not heard of Abdnour overhearing a conversation etween Schuiteman, and OER staff. Schuiteman said she recalled the meeting addressing her request for some background on the contract because Schuiteman was not familiar it. Schuiteman stated she asked about compensatory time and overtime pay. Schuiteman stated she recalled Holda saying we (OIE staff) were facing a pretty difficult situation in the office. 24Schuiteman did not have any knowledge of Abdnour’s knowing Durojaiye’s Snapehat name, and did not hear Abdnour make any comments about knowing it Schuiteman stated that during Schuiteman’s time as Acting Director, Abdnour’s conduct was neutral. Schuiteman further stated that Abdnour was not going out of her way to be helpful or harmful. Schuiteman stated Abdnour was handling public reports which involved completing database fields based on a web report. Schuiteman states that Straka is doing this work now Schuiteman stated Abdnour was not doing other duties above and beyond her normal duties. Schuiteman noted that Abdnour was “smart as a whip” but had no regard for people in authority. She indicated she did not trust Abdnour and it would be disconcerting if Abdnour retuned to OIE. Melanie Trowbridge ~ Assistant Director of Academic Human Resources, AHR Melanie Trowbridge was interviewed March 20, 2018 via telephone. Trowbridge said she spoke to Abdnour on two occasions; first on either February 13" or 14® and the second on February 20" or 21%. Trowbridge said both conversations occurred in Trowbridge’s office, the first was a scheduled meeting and the second occurred when Abdnour showed up without prior scheduling, Trowbridge said Abdnour came to see her to say “things in the office are stressful.” Trowbridge said Abdnour didn’t dwell on the workload, though they were busy, Abdnour stated Schuiteman was the issue. ‘Trowbridge said they talked about cultural norms being flipped. Trowbridge stated Durojaiye had a very relaxed approach and didn’t need specific schedules. Trowbridge stated Abdnour said Schuiteman believed investigators were not putting in enough hours and needed to have face time in the office. Trowbridge said she advised Abdnour that Schuiteman has the right to put parameters in place as she is running the office now. ‘Trowbridge reported that Abdnour said she was having conflict with Schuiteman. Trowbridge stated Abdnour is a leader in the office and people do go to Abdnour for a lot. Trowbridge said Abdnour told her investigators would come to Abdnour to complain or ask questions on cases. Abdnour told Trowbridge investigators would complain about Schuiteman forgetting things, and would voice concems about mental health or capacity to handle the work. Trowbridge said Abdnour characterized these as Abdnour’s concerns and others. Trowbridge said Abdnour focused on Schuiteman forgetting things and raised possibility of cognitive issues. Trowbridge reported Abdnour saying “I’m not a doctor but it’s raising issues.” Trowbridge said that Abdnour reported that Abdnour and Schuiteman had gone to a training. Abdnour told Trowbridge that she shared information about what they learned by sending out an email to OIE staff. Trowbridge said Abdnour told her Schuiteman called Abdnour into the office and told Abdnour that she (Schuiteman) is the Interim Director and she (Schuiteman) should be sending out the emails, not Abdnour. Trowbridge said Abdnour told her this frustrated Abdnour because Abdnour didn’t realize she had to clear it with Schuiteman before sending information to 25the group. Trowbridge said Abdnour told her that Abdnour always does this. Trowbridge reported that Abdnour said she “can’t communicate with this woman because she gets angry at an email.” Trowbridge said Abdnour reported that the investigators went to lunch together to Snyder Phillips Dining Hall to brainstorm as a group how to make it better. Trowbridge stated that Abdnour said every single one of the investigators had an issue and are concerned about the work environment. ‘Trowbridge said Abdnour told her Schuiteman talked to Abdnour about a case saying “Oh I heard you called everyone together; rallying everyone out against me.” Trowbridge stated that Abdnour responded “Nobody is rallying against you.” Trowbridge said Abdnour stated Schuiteman's response was “anyone that has a problem with the work environment if they quit, they quit.” ‘Trowbridge said Abdnour said this frustrated Abdnour because Abdnour wants to problem-solve and told Trowbridge that Abdnour felt the door was closed for discussion about work environment “if the Acting Director throws up hands and they want to quit” ‘Trowbridge stated she asked Abdnour to step back and put herself in Schuiteman’s shoes. ‘Trowbridge reminded Abdnour that Schuiteman is the leader of the office in turbulent times and it triggers different stress responses in people. Trowbridge said she asked Abdnour to consider what kind of pressure Schuiteman is under and the issues to which Schuiterian is being asked to respond. Schuiteman said Abdnour stated that everyone was concerned about their jobs because Krollis there. Trowbridge said Abdnour told her “We all knew by reading the news; Jayne didn’t give them any information.” Trowbridge said she responded that possibly Schuiteman doesn’t know or may be under the same directive. Trowbridge said Abdnour told her she would try to follow Trowbridge’s advice. ‘Trowbridge said Abdnour did not tell her Schuiteman was doing anything unethical or illegal. ‘Trowbridge did not hear Abdnour say she would speak to OCR about her concems, ‘Trowbridge said she recalls the only thing Abdnour talked about was how incompetent Riley was. ‘Trowbridge recalled a conversation with Mwaniasha Sims and Abdnour about Riley’s prejudices against LGBTQ groups and that Riley’s beliefs were incongruent with the goals of the office. One direct quote Trowbridge recorded Abdnour saying was: “Environment ‘n the office is bad. It is horrible and bordering on a hostile work environment.” ‘Trowbridge said Abdnour came to Trowbridge’ office a second time without an appointment and told Trowbridge about sending out the email and Schuiteman getting mad at her. The remainder of the discussion occurred at a prior scheduled meeting in Trowbridge’s office. Jennie Yelvington. Human Resources rogram Manas Jennie Yelvington was interviewed March 20, 2018. Yelvington was informed that her conduct ‘was not being investigated. Yelvington was informed of the non-retaliation policy. 26Yelvington reported receiving « call from Melanie Trowbridge on February 21, 2018. Yelvington said Trowbridge stated she had talked to Abdnour who was struggling with how Schuiteman was managing the group. Yelvington said Trowbridge described what Abdnour stated were the issues in the office and with Schuiteman, and that Abdnour had tried to talk to Schuiteman but with no success, Yelvingion said she asked Trowbridge why Trowbridge is calling Yelvington about this and Trowbridge responded that she told Abdnour to call Yelvington. ‘Yelvington said she was not sure what to do with that, because typically a manager calls her and asks for help. Yelvington said a week to week and half later Abdnour called. Yelvington did not record the date of the call. Yelvington said Abdnour stated similarly to Trowbridge that Schuiteman frequently comes to Abdnour with questions about things Abdnour feels Schuiteman should know about. Yelvington said Abdnour brought up that Schuiteman accused Abdnour of being insubordinate. Yelvington said Abdnour stated Abdnour told Schuiteman it wasn’t true at all, the opposite was true. Yelvington said Abdnour told Yelvington that Abdnour doesn’t know where Schuiteman obtained her information. Yelvington said Abdnour complained about ‘Schuiteman micromanaging and not being able to work from home. Yelvington said Abdnour said something about Schuiteman making even the executive managers turn in sick time, even though executive managers don’t have sick time. Yelvington said she explained to Abdnour that OPD works with groups and managers. Yelvington said she asked Abdnour why she thought Schuiteman was acting in the manner Abdnour described. Yelvington said Abdnour responded that everyone is stressed and that is probably part of it. ‘Yelvington said she told Abdnour “ok, given that is likely, how can you talk with her from that space, talk about making it better in this stressful environment and said I would love if you could take this class on crucial conversations.” Yelvington said she told Abdnour that if Abdnour was looking for common ground with Schuiteman she should have a conversation and that one of us (OPD staff) can meet with Abdnour and help. Yelvington stated Abdnour said ‘this is great” and thanked Yelvington. Yelvington said she never heard from Abdnour again, ‘Yelvington stated that Abdnour may have mentioned concerns about Schuiteman’s knowledge. Yelvington said Abdnour did not mention that Abdnour did not want Schuiteman to be Ac Director nor did Abdnour state she wanted anyone else to be Director. ng Yelvington said Abdnour did not directly express any concern about Schuiteman’s ability to carry out investigations, Yelvington said Abdnour did not raise concerns about Schuiteman’s ability to manage or assign workflow at OIE or not assigning cases right, Yelvington stated Abdnour did not say Schuiteman had misrepresented anything to the Interim President, Yelvington said Abdnour did not make any statement that Schuiteman made incorrect decisions on cases, 7Yelvington said Abdnour did not say Schuiteman had provided inaccurate or incomplete information to claimants. Yelvington said Abdnour did not say Schuiteman ever incorrectly referenced or cited Title IX, but did say that Abdnour thought Schuiteman should know material that she did not know. Yelvington said Abdnour did not accuse Schuiteman of interfering with union activity. Yelvington said Abdnour did not say Schuiteman was not following up, forgetting about tasks or somehow has a memory problem. Yelvington said Abdnour did not accuse Schuiteman of mishandling FOIA requests. When asked if Abdnour said anything to Yelvington about the Kroll investigators, Yelvington stated Abdnour said it was stressful. Abdnour stated that originally it felt like they were here to help, now seemed like they were investigating them (OIE investigators). Yelvington said Abdnour stated she had some sympathy for Schuiteman on that, and itis stressful for everyone. ‘Yelvington said Abdnour did not accuse any university leaders of misconduct or unethical acts. Yelvington said Abdnour did not state that she would report anything to OCR or anyone else. Yelvington said she had never spoken to Abdnour prior to the call. Yelvington said she felt it was really a call about Abdnour being frustrated with her boss micromanaging. Yelvington felt Abdnour was very responsive when Yelvington talked about the crucial conversations material and seemed very interested in that topic. Ye'vington said she did not get the impression that Abdnour was on suspension at the time of the call, but didn’t know for sure, our jenior Investigator, OIE Liz Abdnour was first contacted for an interview on March 6, 2018. She responded on March 7, 2018 with an e-mail attaching a letter which is attached as Appendix B to this report. Her letter chiefly described concerns about Schuiteman, However, it raised concerns of retaliation which were addressed in this interview. Abdnour’s letter also requested a written statement of the allegations against her. This was provided via e-mail on March 8, 2018, ané Abdnour responded that she was working on scheduling. On March 12, 2018, the investigators e-mailed Abdnour and told her that the investigation would be moving forward. Abdnour responded by indicating that she hed been unable to speak with her attorney since the prior week. On March 14, 2018, Abdnour informed the University that she had retained a different attomey. On March 15, 2018, the investigators were contacted by Hopper who indicated that she was now representing Abdnour. The Investigators then offered Hopper meeting times on March 19, 20 and 21. Hopper only indicated that the March 21, 2018 date was acceptable. Abdnour was interviewed on March 21, 2018. The interview began at 1:00 pm and lasted until approximately 4:00. Abdnour was represented by Hopper. Abdnour was apprised that, while an 28employment action may result from the charges, there would be no retaliation against her for her participation in the interview. She was also informed that she was not under any order to respond to questioning and that she could leave at any time. She was also informed that the University was not recording the meeting and it was expected and understood that she was not doing so as well. ‘Abdnour indicated that she understood this. Abdnour indicated that Durojaiye had informed her that she would be made Acting Director of OIE in early December of 2017. She stated that this took place in a meeting they had at the Sparty's in the Administration Building. Abdnour stated Durojaiye told her he would recommend her to be Acting Director, and advised her on how office should be run and the challenges she might face. ‘Abdnour stated the meeting was just her and Durojaiye. She later leaned that Martinez. and ‘Spencer saw them. Abdnour stated that she did not tell Durojaiye that she was, or was not, willing to assume the rule, but did feel that she had a duty to do it because he wanted her to do it. Abdnour stated that she did not talk to anyone at OIE about becoming Acting Director. However, she stated that Martinez asked her “what happened” after Schuiteman was named Acting Director. Abdnour did not explain why Martinez, would ask her that, but did state that Martinez told her she had seen Abdnour and Durojaiye at Sparty’s. Abdnour stated that Straka might have been present when Martinez spoke with her. Abdnour stated that she also spoke with Leahy immediately after she told Martinez as she wanted Leahy to “hear it” from her. Abdnour stated that Durojaiye told her that Schuiteman was going to named Acting Director five (5) minutes before the announcement. Abdnour stated that he came into her office and said “it ‘was Jayne not you.” She also stated that she followed-up with him later, and Durojaiye said that he met with then-President Simon who told him that she didn’t want Abdnour because she was “too much of an advocate.” Abdnour also claimed that Durojaiye stated that then-President Simon wanted Schuiteman because she would do want President Simon wanted while Abdnour would not. Abdnour stated that she felt President Simon was concemed that she would change too many things at OIE. When asked if she thought she should have been named Acting Director rather than Schuiteman, Abdnour stated that she didn’t know and it was “hard to say.” When asked if she felt Schuiteman should be removed from the Acting Director position, Abdnour stated that it was “not up to me,” and that she didn’t know enough to make that decision. Abdnour stated she, Straka and Schmidtke had recorded a staff meeting which took place between mid-January and February 27, 2018. Abdnour stated they did so due to concems that they were told different things at different times and wanted to document the meeting. Abdnour stated that the decision to record was made at a meeting of the Investigators before the staff meeting. She stated that the purpose of the meeting had not been announced, and the investigators were anxious and scared about what might happen. Abdnour did not recall who raised the issue of recording, and could not recall specific discussion from that meeting. She did not tell Schuiteman that she, or anyone else, was recording the meeting. Abdnour stated that she was aware of Durojaiye’s Snapchat name. She first stated that others at OIE were talking about it after he left MSU. However, Abdnour then admitted she was aware of 29this before others came to her. Indeed, she learned of it very soon after he started at OIE. Abdnour admitted saying that she kept the information for later use at the meeting with Spencer, Martinez and “whoever else was there” after she met with Durojaiye at Sparty’s. She claimed that she meant this as a joke, She stated that she had taken a screen shot of the name, bvt deleted it after she showed it to her partner and determined it was not a violation of policy. She stated that she did not report Durojaiye’s Snapchat name to anyone else at OIE. When asked if she felt this could be embarrassing to Durojaiye in his role at OIF, she stated, “I don’t know. You would need to ask hhim how he felt about it.” Abdnour indicated she was aware of a criminal matter in Schuiteman’s past. She stated that she understood this to be a “medical issue and mix-up with medicine.” She indicated that she believed Schuiteman had fallen asleep at the wheel, was found by MSUPD and criminal proceedings occurred. She stated that she learned this well over a year ago when the event took place. She stated this was well known in the office. She stated that she did not have direct conversation with Durojaiye, but assumed that he knew. Abdnour denied ever indicating to anyone that she would use the incident ageinst Schuiteman, but “suggested strongly” that it needed to be reported. She made this suggestion after Schuiteman became Acting Director. She stated that she made this suggestion to all investigators. She also volunteered that she made this suggestion to ASPA President Joe Garza who she said told her to Teportit. She also said that other friends, including one who is an “HR director” told her to report it, However, Abdnour stated that she had not yet reported it when she was suspended, but was still eciding to whom it should be reported Abdnour stated that she did not recall making any comment about Schuiteman’s incident to Martinez, but immediately referred to the occasion when Martinez took her to lunch. She stated that she did not recall a conversation in Martinez’s office, but it was “very possible” one took place. She also stated that it was “very possible” that she had a conversation about this at the OTE counter with Martinez and Wang. Abdnour denied that Martinez ever told het that Abdnour was “terrifying” her. Rather, Abdnour stated that Martinez told Abdnour that she was scared for Abdncur because Abdnour was too vocal and would become a “target.” Abdnour stated she did not recall discussing Schuiteman’s incident with Spencer, but admitted that she “probably” did at some point. She did not recall any text conversation wit Spencer, but stated it was possible they occurred When asked about conversations with Wang about Schuiteman’s incident, Abdnour stated that she discussed the issue with all of the investigators. Abdnour denied ever telling Straka she had incriminating information on Schuiteman, She admitted it was “very possible” that she discussed concerns she had about Schuiteman’s work on 30a specific case.° Abdnour stated that she did not discuss this with Schuiteman, but planned to before she was suspended on February 27, 2018. Abdnour stated that she did not discuss her concerns about Schuiteman’s arrest with Schuiteman due to fears of retaliation. When asked why she feared retaliation, Abdnour stated that Schuiteman ‘was “all over the place.” Specifically, Abdnour claimed that Schuiteman would ask for help and stated that she was “over her head.” Abdnour also pointed to a time when Abdnour forwarded an e-mail from Employee Relations. According to Abdnour, Schuiteman told her that she should not have done so, but Schuiteman, as Acting Director, was the proper person to forward that e-mail. Abdnour stated that she could not trust Schuiteman. She also referenced fear of Kroll. Abdnour admitted that Schuiteman never threatened retaliation in any way. Abdnour stated that she told the following people about her concerns with Schuiteman’s health: all OIE investigators, her domestic partner, Garza and two other representative from APSA, her friend the HR director and her attorney. She then indicated that she told Trowbridge about her concems with Schuiteman’s memory. Abdnour denied ever asking any investigators to help her get information about Schuiteman or Norris. She did state that she discussed using FOIA to get the Kroll contract and an organization chart that Norris had prepared. Abdnour denied asking Straka to get information on Schuiteman ot Nomtis. Abdnour denied telling OIE investigators to come to herself rather than Schuiteman. Rather, Abdnour stated that investigators have come to her with questions, but she told them to follow the Director's instructions and, if they felt it wasn’t right, to document the matter and as “CYA.” She id recall Schuiteman talking to her about this allegation on February 19 or 20, 2018, Abdnour stated that Schuiteman told her: she had heard about the investigator's lunch meeting and that Abdnour had claimed that Schuiteman and Norris told Abdnour everything and the investigators should come to Abdnour rather than Schuiteman, Abdnour claimed that Schuiteman told her that was insubordination. Abdnour stated that she told Schuiteman about the lunch, and that the main purpose of the lunch was to jointly decide if Senior Investigators should unionize. She also claimed that she told Schuiteman that she told the investigators to follow Schuiteman’s advice but to keep detailed notes. Abdnour stated that Schuiteman responded by saying, “Okay, thank you. I believe you.” She then told Abdnour she was doing a “great job.” Abdnour stated that she was “completely thrown off guard” by these comments. Abdnour stated that she spoke to Leahy and followed up with an e-mail to Schuiteman, a copy of this e-mail was provided to OER. Abdnour could not recall if she ever told anyone she felt Schuiteman was not qualified to be the Acting Director of OTE, and could not recall ever commenting about the fact Schuiteman does not havea JD. Abdnour admitted that she commented that OIE should hold a vote of no confidence in Schuiteman. She stated that was meant as a joke and that people laughed. She could not recall if ® Abdnour volunteered the name of the respondent in that case, and provided the names of witnesses who could discuss that case. These witnesses were not interviewed, and the respondent's name is not included in this report, as ‘Schuiteman’s performance on that matter is beyond the scape of this investigation. 31this was done verbally or through a text message. As noted above, her text starts that she was “only partly kidding.” Abdnour denied ever suggesting that staff not speak in a meeting. Rather, she said that she only ‘mentioned that she was not going to speak in a meeting. However, she ended up speaking anyway. Abdnour stated it was “very possible” that she made a comment about wanting to create chaos in OIE. She stated, “I talk like that all the time. I say all kinds of things.” She referred to this as hyperbole. Abdnour was then shown a number of texts from the documents provided by Martinez. She admitted to sending those texts and that the recipients included all Senior Investigators and Investigators. She was then asked about specific texts, She was asked about a text which states: J just thought of something . .. can we hold a vote of no confidence? Only partly kidding Abdnour admitted that this referred to a vote of no confidence in Schuiteman and Norris, She also noted that she could not see the context of that comment from the texts presented to her. Abdnour was asked about a text which read: I’m all about wresting power via chaos And I think it would create chaos Another thought is group vow of silence at next staff meeting. We just don’t talk. Fear will strike deep into their hearts. Abdnour stited that was just the way she talked and it reflected her common means of communication. She also indicated it referred to “things in the office.” Abdnour commented she forgot she sent a text pertaining to a vow of silence. She stated the comment about fear referred to the University as a whole, and was motivated by her belief that a lot of change was needed. Abdnour was asked about a text which read: Completely unrelated, what's the over under on whether shes aware of the implications of Michigan’s one party recording statute? Asking for a friend Abdnour stated that either Schuiteman or Norris was the “she” referred to in the text. She also conceded that the “friend” was a sarcastic reference to herself. Abdnour was asked about a text which read: So far I'm satisfied with the Bobs. They seem knowledgeable and all but one have experience as sex crimes prosecutors and/or legal aid Not to say we don’t still consider raising hell but wanted to give an update on their skills 32She stated that the reference to the “Bobs” referred to the Kroll investigators and was an illusion to the movie Office Space. She indicated that is just how she talks, Abdnour was asked about a text which read: 1am in, 1 am over my terror of one of you trying to get me fired and am convinced it was the green sweater dude. And if anything comes back to bite me in the ass after Thursday I’ll know I was wrong .. . Also I would like pad Thai with tofu weak sauce thank you! With a side of insubordination Abdnour stated this referred to the investigator's lunch meeting where they believed a person in a green sweater was listening to them, She stated that she could not recall the meaning of her comment referring to something biting her in the ass. She admitted that her reference to insubordination referred to her conversation with Schuiteman. Abdnour was asked about a text which read: About Nazis Il tell you in person I can’t risk screenshots of insubordination Abdnour stated that she could not remember who she was referring to as being “Nazis.” She stated that she made “Nazi jokes a lot, so...” Abdnour was asked why she would send these texts. She stated, “I don’t know. Why wouldn't 1?” She also reference a number of ongoing conversations about concerns she had. ‘Abdnour acknowledged that she holds an Executive Management position, but that she sees herself as one the investigators. She also acknowledged that she makes more money than the Investigators. However, she stated that she was never told she has authority over other OIE staff, and that there were conversations that it was unfair that she made more money than the investigators. She does not recall signing any documents when she began a Senior Investigator. Abdnour was asked about a text which read: TY ‘Super intense mtg with religious studies faculty. Training completely derailed due to them saying they have no confidence in OIE. 1 took all concerns and spoke very frankly. 1 was able to build trust with myself but they basically hate our office. This is going to require some serious secret ops work to fix. I'll fill you in more at lunch. All are welcome to join me in the revolution. Abdnour stated that this referred to the training she did with the Religious Studies Department. She stated that Professor Amy DeRogatis stopped the training and expressed a lack of trust in OIE 33and concern over the change in leadership at OIE. Specifically, Professor DeRogatis noted that she ‘Was tot aware that Durojaiye had left the University, or that Schuiteman had assumed the role of Acting Director, Abdnour stated that Professor DeRogatis noted that she could be the Director as she had a Ph.D. as well. Abdnour admitted that she discussed this training with OIE Investigators at lunch, Abdnour stated her reference to “serious secret ops work” referred to a need for OIE to improve their relationship with people on campus. She claimed that she had presented this issue to Schuiteman, who disagreed with that suggestion and indicted that should not be a focus at OIE, Abdnour denied that her comment implied secretly disregarding Schuiteman’s instructions. Rather, Abdnour stated that she just liked to “talk in the most extreme way at times.” Abdnour stated that her reference to the “revolution” referred to the “revolution of doing things tight at MSU.” She also stated that talked about “revolution all the time.” Abdnour denied ever telling the investigators they would be laid off or would lose their jobs, but did say that she made comments that Kroll would replace the investigators Abdnour stated that any comment referencing having Schuiteman removed fom her position was a joke, However, she then stated that she had concems about things Schuiteman was saying and doing and was in the process of figuring out how she would report her corcerns when she was suspended. She stated that her concerns were spelled out in her March 7, 2018 letter to OER. Abdnour stated that she made comments about Riley “all the time.” She stated that any comments she made that she got Riley fired would have been hyperbole. Abdnour stated that she did not recall any comments to specific investigators about Riley. Abdnour stated that she may have called Straka into her office to discuss Schuiteman or Norris, but she did not recall any specific conversation. Abdnour was asked about a meeting between OIE and OER on February 19, 2018, Abdnour attended the meeting with Schuiteman. After the meeting, Abdnour left but Schuiteman remained with OER. Abdnour stated that OIE staff were aware that sounds traveled from the room in which the meeting was held. Abdnour claimed that she elected to get recycling from her office to take the bin located outside of the meeting room. She then claimed that she overheard Schuiteman ask OER cbout the contractual provisions concerning compensatory time, which was an issue that had been raised by the investigators. Abdnour claimed to have been shocked to hear this and remained in the hallway outside of the door for twenty (20) to thirty (30) seconds. Abdnour then went to Straka, one of the unionized Investigators, and told her what she had heard because she felt Schuiteman was “really standing in their way.” Abdnour stated that she may have told more OIE staff about this, but could not recall who. She also stated that she did not go to Schuiteman about what she had heard. Abdnour stated that she did try to help Schuiteman after she became the Acting Director by training her on the Advocate system after a request from Schuiteman. She also responded to questions from Schuiteman and provided advice to her. Abdnour also stated that Schtiteman asked her to review a report and that she had concerns over Schuiteman’s conclusions and analysis, She also 34found the report to be disorganized as it referred to individuals in different ways throughout the report. Abdnour was asked about claims of retaliation made in her March 7, 2018 letter to OER. Specifically, she was asked what she told individuals identified in her letter. Abdnour provided the following information: She claimed that she told Melanie Trowbridge about concems about Schuiteman's ‘management and memory, as well as inaccurate advice given to the investigators. She claimed that she told Lydia Weiss in the WorkLife Office about concerns over Schuiteman’s decision to stop allowing working remotely and a confidentiality agreement which Schuiteman circulated at a staff meeting, In particular, Abdnour asked for advice on how to approach Schuiteman, She claimed that she asked Jennie Yelvington in the Human Resources department for advice on how to speak with Schuiteman, She said that Yelvington recommended a book and offered to coach her on how to approach Schuiteman Abdnour clarified that she did not meet with Yelvington, but spoke with her over the phone Abdnour claimed that she spoke with Durojaiye. She claimed that, during the meeting at Sparty’s, he told her anyone would stab her in the back and that being Acting Director would be really hard. She stated he told her she would get pushback from OGC and that she should not let them change her conclusions. She also claimed that he told her President Simon had played him and Norris off of one another, Abdnour stated that Durojaiye had told her that that Trowbridge had told ‘him he was more qualified than Norris and that Durojaiye could file an OCR claim, She also claimed to have heard President Simon make comment that was based on race.” Abdnour also stated that she was aware of an occasion when Tana Fedewa tried to get money for Sexual Assault program, but Provost Youatt decline the funding. Abdnour claimed that Fedewa was approached by a Trustee who discussed the issue. Abdnour later claimed that Provost Youatt spoke with Fedewa and threatened her funding.® ? These allegations are outside of the scope of this investigation. They are noted as part of the Abdnour’s statement ‘without any finding that they occurred. © These allegations are outside of the scope of this investigation. They are noted as part of the Abdnour's statement without any finding that they occurred. 35‘© Abdnour stated that raising concems at MSU would result in someone being kicked out of the MSU community. Abdnour felt that was happening to her, and that her fears were realized. ‘Ms, Abdnour also claimed that she believed that employees will get along fine at MSU if they know the right people, but will be pushed out for challenging things. Abdinour also discussed concems she raised in her letter concerning Schuitenan. She stated that she had concems with the manner in which Schuiteman assigned cases which duplicated work for the investigators. Abdnour stated that she felt Schuiteman did not know how to assign cases in the correct manner. She also believed that the backlog in cases was due to Schuiteman’s failure to assign cases in a timely manner. She stated that she believed that Schuiteman was not honest in a letter Schuiteman sent to Interim President Engler about the reasons for the backlog of cases at OIE. Abdnour stated that the dishonesty stemmed from Schuiteman’s failure to list her own failure to assign cases as the reason for the backlog. Abdnour did, however, state that it was possible that Schuiteman did not understand the issue of the backlog, which raised other issues for Abdnour. Abdnour also stated that she could not understand how Schuiteman could have a different opinion about the cause for the backlog. She also admitted that she has never seen the letter and does not even know if it was sent. Abdnour did state that Schuiteman claimed that she sent the letter. Abdnour also referenced cases in which Schuiteman had not properly analyzed a request for claimants to remain anonymous. Abdnour noted that OIE standards allowed for a formal investigation if the allegations were serious enough. She disagreed with Schuiteman’s conclusion on thet point in this ease. Abdnour also referenced her claims about Schuiteman’s memory. She referenced a case where Schuiteman stated that she had not kept notes, a case where Schuiteman repeatedly did not make a decision conceming whether to proceed with an investigation, as well as two other cases where Schuiteman repeatedly forgot conversations concerning retention of outside experts. Abdnour also referenced an occasion where Schuiteman forgot a conversation she had with Leahy. Abdnour was also asked about her concern that she was prevented from speaking with staff from OCR. She stated that Schmidtke told her that OCR staff would be coming to campus. Abdnour stated that she verified this with other OCR staff. She then stated she said “something along the lines” of the following: “Let them come, I want to talk to them. Thave concems I want to share. ‘We don’t have anything to hide around here, but I do have concerns.” She said she made this comment while walking to her office. She did not speak with Schuiteman or Norris about wanting to speak with OCR staff. Abdnour was asked about the reference to NLRA protected activity in her letter. She stated that this referred to her discussion with Schuiteman about the lunch attended by the investigators which addressed workplace concerns, Abdnour stated that Schuiteman should not have asked Abdnour about the investigators’ concerns. However, Abdnour admitted that she brought up the issue of a union and that Schuiteman did not respond to that issue. 36