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Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to everything 07/31/15 04:27 PM ( #2446308 (updated 06/06/2022)
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Ataru07 OP I'm going to cut and paste the one that was the official standard of piano
Pianoteq Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
4 studies in Italy before was changed to a more "americanized" system. This
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1000 Post Club program was though to start from the basics at early age ( I think the
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Member minimum age was 5 or 6 )
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Note, not all the pieces included in each method or collection need to be
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performed, it's just to give an idea of the progression required. I did cut
short the list to the most common books found in the US.

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RUBINSTEIN
THALBERG
KESSLER
Toccata di CZERNY

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SCHUBERT
WEBER
MOZART
HAYDN
CLEMENTI.

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M. CLEMENTI, “Gradus ad Parnassum†.

D. SCARLATTI, Sonate.

J. S. BACH, WTC, vol.II.

Sonate:
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SCHUBERT
WEBER.

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8° Anno – Intermediate Board Exam

- Execution of one brilliant Scarlatti sonata extracted from 3 studied

- Execution of one randomly selected etudes between the following one nn.
2, 5, 9, 14, 15, 16, 17, 21, 26, 30, 32, 36, 44, 47, 58, 63, 65, 78, 86, 87,
88, 95, 96 from “Gradus ad Parnassum†M. CLEMENTI.

- Execution of a Prelude and Fugue selected 24 hours before between 12

selected in WTC vol 1 and 12 selected in WTC vol 2

- Execution of an etude selected between 2 studied from the following list

MOSCHELES, 1, 3, 23 op. 70
CZERNY, Toccata op. 92
KESSLER, 1, 8, 10 op. 20
MENDELSSOHN, op. 104/b n. l; op. 104/a n. 2
THALBERG, op. 26 n. 1
RUBINSTEIN, any in op. 23

- One Beethoven sonata selected from the following list:

op 2 #3, op 7, op 10 #3, op 13, op 26, op 28, op 31 #1 and #2, op 53 and
op 81a

- One piece selected from the following list

WEBER, Finale of 1st Sonata (Moto perpetuo); Polonaise E Maj.
SCHUBERT, Impromptu in Bb Maj. op. 142
MENDELSSOHN, “Variations Sacrieuses†op. 54; Scherzo e capriccio
in fa diesis min.; Rondò capriccioso p. 14
SCHUMANN, Romanza op. 32 n. l; “In der Nacht†, “Traumes
Wirren “Aufschwung “,“Phantasiestucke†op. 12; Novelletta.
op. 21 n. 2

- CHOPIN:
op. 10 nn. 3, 5, 8.
op. 25 nn. 1, 2, 9
Impromptu n. 3in solb magg. op. 51
Ballade n. 1 op. 23
Ballade n. 3 op. 47
“Berceuse†op. 5
Scherzo in si min. n. 1 op. 20
Scherzo in do diesis min. n. 3 op. 39
Andante spianato e Polacca brillante in mib magg. op. 22

- One piece selected from the following list:

BRAHMS, 2 rapsodie op. 79; Capriccio in B min; Intermezzi op. 117 (one)
GLUCK – SAINT-SAANS, Capriccio su “Alcesteâ€
SGAMBATI, Studio melodico
MARTUCCI, Studio op. 47
DEBUSSY, “Jardins sous la pluie†, “Danseuses de Delphesâ€
RAVEL, Minuetto e Rigaudon dal “Tombeau de Couperinâ€

==============================================
============================================
9° Anno

Etudes:
CHOPIN
LISZT
SKRJABIN
RACHMANINOV
DEBUSSY
SAINT-SAANS

==============================================
============================================
10° Anno – Final Board Exam for Diploma

Prepare one recital with a duration between 60 to 75 minutes selecting

music from each group of the following list:

Group n. 1
J. S. BACH, any composition for keyboard
Bach's transcriptions LISZT, TAUSIG, BUSONI, D’ALBERT
L. van BEETHOVEN, A sonata between op. 57 to op. 111; Diabelli variations
op. 120; Rondò op. 129; C minor variations WOo 80.

Group n. 2
C. M. WEBER, Sonata n. 2 op. 39
F. SCHUBERT, Fantasia op. 15
R. SCHUMANN, Fantasia op. 17; “Carnaval†op. 9; Studi sinfonici op.
13
F. CHOPIN, Sonata op. 58; Sonata op. 35, 3 compositions selected
between: Ballata n. 2 op. 38; Ballata n. 4 op. 52; Polacca op. 44; Polacca
op. 53; Notturni – Mazurche
F. LISZT, Sonata in B min; Scherzo e marcia; “Mephisto Valse†;
Trascendental etudes: Mazeppa o “Feux Follets†o n. 10; One of the
3 concert etudes.

Group n. 3
J. BRAHMS, Paganini variations op. 35; Variations on a Handel theme;
Rhapsody in Eb Maj. op. 119 n. 4
C. SAINT- SAANS, 6 Etudes op. 111
C. FRANCK, Preludio, Corale e Fuga, oppure Preludio, Aria e Finale
CHABRIER, “Bourrèe Fantastiqueâ€
G. SGAMBATI, Preludio e Fuga – Due studi da concerto (uno a scelta)
G. MARTUCCI, Tema con variazioni op. 58 – Fantasia op. 51
M. E. BOSSI, Studio da concerto op. 137 n. 3 in sib min. – Moto
perpetuo.

Group 4
BALAKIREW, “Islameyâ€
LIAPOUNOW, Studi trascendentali
MUSORGSKIJ, “Tableaux d’une expositionâ€
SKRJABIN, Studi – Sonate
DEBUSSY, Preludi – “Estampes†– Studi – Preludio, Sarabanda
e Toccata
RAVEL, “Alborada del Gracioso†– Sonatina – “Gaspard de la
Nuit – “Jeux d’eauâ€
ALBENIZ, Iberia
STRAVINSKIJ, Sonata
BARTOK, Suite – Allegro barbaro

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Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' Ataru074 07/31/15 04:35 PM ( #2446311

ClsscLib Pardon me; I need to open the window so that I can get to the ledge...

3000 Post Club

Member

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 3,179
"Don't let the devil fool you -
Northern VA, U.S.
Here comes a dove;
Nothing cures like time and love."

-- Laura Nyro

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' Ataru074 07/31/15 04:40 PM ( #2446312

Doritos pretty demanding, huh? already sonatines by second year?

Flavoured
500 Post Club Member my teacher in my teens was in favor of method books, in the case, Leila
Fletcher. I pretty much followed the years by each volume. Which means,
pretty slow development by this old italian standard.
D
Joined: Oct 2012 unlocked by keys
Posts: 608 wordless poetry sings free
Brazil - piano music -

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' Ataru074 07/31/15 04:42 PM ( #2446313

malkin For a second I thought that first year students got to take a break from the
6000 Post Club keyboard and play a trombone for a bit!
Member

Joined: Apr 2009

Posts: 6,311
Learner
*sigh* Salt Lake City

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothi… ' Doritos Flavoured 07/31/15 05:20 PM ( #2446318

Ataru07 OP Originally Posted by Doritos Flavoured

4
1000 Post Club pretty demanding, huh? already sonatines by second year?
Member
my teacher in my teens was in favor of method books, in the case, Leila
Fletcher. I pretty much followed the years by each volume. Which means,
pretty slow development by this old italian standard.

Joined: Jun 2011 This program is the "child" of an Italy that was strong in music and poor in
Posts: 1,129 finances, meaning, very few were able to afford to relocate in the few
Houston, TX college cities. Usually you were initiated to music by the time you start
elementary school and that reflects the first board exam, when you have
the board exam at the end of elementary school, you also get ready for the
lower level board exam. the 3 intermediate years, do match the 3 years of
intermediate school in Italy and that was pretty much were quite some
people in the old days did stop studying because they had to go to work to
help their families... so two extra years to get to the diploma level was a
sort of a bargain compared to the other 5 years that would have took to
complete a lyceum or the four for a professional school.

You didn't have to attend regularly any institution to do it, you have just to
prepare for the 3 board exam, plus one in solfege (3rd year), one in music
history (6th) and one in harmony and composition (7th) at a conservatory,
teachers in Italy needed this kind of diploma to be able to teach piano and
they were able to prepare you for it without expensive relocations or
hostels.

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' Ataru074 08/01/15 12:43 AM ( #2446392

outo I think one "benefit" of such a program is that the weak are weaned off
4000 Post Club pretty early. This program is build for the purpose of creating professional
Member level musicians. If you don't have what it takes, you might as well quit. It's
not meant for slow learners.

O When music education is seen as something for everyone and it is accepted

that for most it will always be just a hobby, then of course different
Joined: Aug 2012 programs must be created. Otherwise most kids will fail their first year
Posts: 4,765
Finland When the system is more flexible, it's more up to the individual (or the
parents) to push those who have what it takes to take it further.

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' Ataru074 08/01/15 01:15 AM ( #2446397

keystring I see a list of pieces, studies, and scales. I would want to know about the
Yikes! 10000 Post Club teaching and development of skills. How adept were teachers at this part -
Member did they teach toward it - were all teachers up to it? In the last post I am
reading about "weaning off" of the "weak", and "slow learners". I'd really
want to know about that part first. It is always a thing that concerns me.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,947
Canada

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to ever… ' outo 08/01/15 01:53 AM ( #2446400

jimb100 Originally Posted by outo

Full Member
I think one "benefit" of such a program is that the weak are weaned off
pretty early. This program is build for the purpose of creating professional
J level musicians. If you don't have what it takes, you might as well quit. It's
not meant for slow learners.
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 121 When music education is seen as something for everyone and it is accepted
Florida that for most it will always be just a hobby, then of course different
programs must be created. Otherwise most kids will fail their first year

When the system is more flexible, it's more up to the individual (or the
parents) to push those who have what it takes to take it further.

Foolish. Not every 5 year old is at the same level of physical or mental
development.

Its perfectly sensible that a 7 year old can be a year behind and the same
kid, at 10, can be a year ahead.

Its the problem with most "cookie cutter" education systems in the world,
to the detriment of the children.

Casio PX 850
Alfred's Book 1
Sony 7506 phones

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' jimb100 08/01/15 04:15 AM ( #2446415

outo Originally Posted by jimb100

4000 Post Club
Member Originally Posted by outo

I think one "benefit" of such a program is that the weak are

O weaned off pretty early. This program is build for the purpose of
creating professional level musicians. If you don't have what it
takes, you might as well quit. It's not meant for slow learners.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
When music education is seen as something for everyone and it is
Finland
accepted that for most it will always be just a hobby, then of
course different programs must be created. Otherwise most kids
will fail their first year

When the system is more flexible, it's more up to the individual (or
the parents) to push those who have what it takes to take it
further.

I suggest you read my post again. I did not take a stand in favor of either
types of systems, simply stated the different motivations behind them and
the implications for the kids.

Take a look at the arts and sports education in the former Soviet Union for
example: It could produce a lot of successes, but had little regard for those
who mature more slowly or didn't fit in. If you were not ready at the time
expected, you were out. When there's plenty of material to choose from,
those kids were expendable even when they might have developed into a
lot given enough time.

People tend to forget that it's only in the recent decades that individuality
especially in kids has been cherished in the way it is now in the West. If you
look at history (and still some parts of the world) such ideas were and are
completely alien.

Last edited by outo; 08/01/15 04:18 AM.

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' Ataru074 08/01/15 04:42 AM ( #2446421

Bart K Ataru, if you remove the === separators and replace them with bold
3000 Post Club headings the page will format normally. Right now it is very difficult to
Member read.

Joined: Feb 2015

Posts: 3,120
Warsaw, Poland

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' Ataru074 08/01/15 04:56 AM ( #2446423

sinophilia Thank you Ataru! I had the first three years' program but not the rest. Last
year I used Beyer, Bertini and some Czerny for my sight-reading and quick
studies practice and found it quite useful.
1000 Post Club
Member

Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW

My Italian Circle
Italian for Musicians & Music Lovers
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,996
Italy

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to eve… ' Bart K 08/01/15 05:04 AM ( #2446424

SwissMS I would think with the above schedule, even a talented child would have to
2000 Post Club spend hours a day at the piano. They would have to be dedicated to their
Member art. It certainly seems that it would be for the select few.

Today, kids have so many activities and distractions (TV, internet,

smartphones, etc) that even the dedicated ones in western society would
be likely to proceed at a slower pace. Not being a teacher, obviously that is
just my opinion. My teacher does workshops in eastern Europe however,
Joined: Jan 2011 and she has had students of 12 and 13 playing Haydn or Beethoven
Posts: 2,674 Sonatas beautifully. So I think the learning cycle is similar to this in those
Costa del Sol countries. From what I have read, they have a similar fast progression
program in China also. Perhaps they are more disciplined and have higher
expectations. The students she works with are not the average "I want to
learn to play piano" students though. They are headed for conservatory and
a career as a pianist.

X28

My YouTube Channel

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' Ataru074 08/01/15 05:09 AM ( #2446428

tbonesays That reminds me of the grammar school curriculum in Shakespeare's time,

Full Member presented to show us what Willy would know at age 7. Those Elizabethan
kiddies were as well read as a millenial college graduate.

And Lou would approve.

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 276 Last edited by tbonesays; 08/01/15 05:10 AM.

Phoenix
"Motivation is simple, you eliminate anyone who isn't motivated." - Lou
Holtz.

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' keystring 08/01/15 09:15 AM ( #2446471

Ataru07 OP Originally Posted by keystring

4
1000 Post Club I see a list of pieces, studies, and scales. I would want to know about the
Member teaching and development of skills. How adept were teachers at this part -
did they teach toward it - were all teachers up to it? In the last post I am
reading about "weaning off" of the "weak", and "slow learners". I'd really
want to know about that part first. It is always a thing that concerns me.

Yes, the program wasn't for everybody, it's the equivalent of a scholarship,
if you are good enough and you get it, you can move forward, otherwise
Joined: Jun 2011 you had the choice of paying for private lessons and attempt the exams on
Posts: 1,129 your own. For the rest, teaching in conservatories is a prestigious position,
Houston, TX you always had among the best musicians there.

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' jimb100 08/01/15 09:18 AM ( #2446472

Ataru07 OP Originally Posted by jimb100

4
1000 Post Club Originally Posted by outo
Member
I think one "benefit" of such a program is that the weak are
weaned off pretty early. This program is build for the purpose of
creating professional level musicians. If you don't have what it
takes, you might as well quit. It's not meant for slow learners.
When music education is seen as something for everyone and it is
accepted that for most it will always be just a hobby, then of
Joined: Jun 2011 course different programs must be created. Otherwise most kids
Posts: 1,129 will fail their first year
Houston, TX When the system is more flexible, it's more up to the individual (or
the parents) to push those who have what it takes to take it
further.

Foolish. Not every 5 year old is at the same level of physical or mental
development.
Its perfectly sensible that a 7 year old can be a year behind and the same

This systems was a government based plan, pretty much completely paid
by the government, like a full college scholarship here in the US, if you fall
back, say goodbye to the program. The difference is that a kid can start as
young as 5 (I think it was the earliest) and as late as 14.... (but usually
14ers don't make it)

Also, is not that you -can't- repeat one year... if you aren't good enough to
keep the pace, you can repeat every single years at least once... if you fail
to pass the year twice you are dropped from the program. This will affect
your final grades though.

Last edited by Ataru074; 08/01/15 09:26 AM.

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to ever… ' outo 08/01/15 09:28 AM ( #2446476

Ataru07 OP Originally Posted by outo

4
1000 Post Club I think one "benefit" of such a program is that the weak are weaned off
Member pretty early. This program is build for the purpose of creating professional
level musicians. If you don't have what it takes, you might as well quit. It's
not meant for slow learners.
When music education is seen as something for everyone and it is accepted
that for most it will always be just a hobby, then of course different
programs must be created. Otherwise most kids will fail their first year
When the system is more flexible, it's more up to the individual (or the
Joined: Jun 2011
parents) to push those who have what it takes to take it further.
Posts: 1,129
Houston, TX
There was flexibility, you can choose with your music teacher when to start
the program (age wise) and like in every school in Italy at the time, you
can fail each year, there is no guarantee that you will move to the next
level. If you fail twice in a row in the same year you are dropped off the
school and you need to transfer to another school.

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' SwissMS 08/01/15 09:33 AM ( #2446477

Ataru07 OP Originally Posted by SwissMS

4
1000 Post Club I would think with the above schedule, even a talented child would have to
Member spend hours a day at the piano. They would have to be dedicated to their
art. It certainly seems that it would be for the select few.
Today, kids have so many activities and distractions (TV, internet,
smartphones, etc) that even the dedicated ones in western society would be
likely to proceed at a slower pace. Not being a teacher, obviously that is just
my opinion. My teacher does workshops in eastern Europe however, and she
has had students of 12 and 13 playing Haydn or Beethoven Sonatas
Joined: Jun 2011
beautifully. So I think the learning cycle is similar to this in those countries.
Posts: 1,129
From what I have read, they have a similar fast progression program in
Houston, TX
China also. Perhaps they are more disciplined and have higher expectations.
The students she works with are not the average "I want to learn to play
piano" students though. They are headed for conservatory and a career as a
pianist.

It's a school, you were expected to do your homework, study all the other
things (history, math, philosophy, latin, etc) and dedicate at least 2 hour
daily to the piano until the 5th year and then bump it up to 3 to 4 hours
daily minimum....

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' sinophilia 08/01/15 09:36 AM ( #2446479

Ataru07 OP Originally Posted by sinophilia

4
1000 Post Club Thank you Ataru! I had the first three years' program but not the rest. Last
Member year I used Beyer, Bertini and some Czerny for my sight-reading and quick
studies practice and found it quite useful.

You are welcome, I found it pretty useful because gives an idea of

progression for the more advanced students, while RCM and ABSRM do
spread their grade 8 or 10 in what in the italian program are the first 5 or 6
Joined: Jun 2011 years.
Posts: 1,129
Houston, TX

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to e… ' Ataru074 08/01/15 12:07 PM ( #2446514

outo Originally Posted by Ataru074

4000 Post Club
Member Originally Posted by outo

I think one "benefit" of such a program is that the weak are

O weaned off pretty early. This program is build for the purpose of
creating professional level musicians. If you don't have what it
takes, you might as well quit. It's not meant for slow learners.
Joined: Aug 2012
When music education is seen as something for everyone and it is
Posts: 4,765
accepted that for most it will always be just a hobby, then of
Finland
course different programs must be created. Otherwise most kids
will fail their first year
When the system is more flexible, it's more up to the individual (or
the parents) to push those who have what it takes to take it
further.

There was flexibility, you can choose with your music teacher when to start
the program (age wise) and like in every school in Italy at the time, you can
fail each year, there is no guarantee that you will move to the next level. If

With flexibility I was more referring to systems like what we have here
today, you can study as slowly as you like and only those who are really
dedicated or have parents that push them more will advance even closely
to that program...

Re: Ten years program for pianist, from nothing to ever… ' outo 08/01/15 12:27 PM ( #2446521

Ataru07 OP Originally Posted by outo

4
1000 Post Club Originally Posted by Ataru074
Member
Originally Posted by outo

I think one "benefit" of such a program is that the weak

are weaned off pretty early. This program is build for the
purpose of creating professional level musicians. If you
don't have what it takes, you might as well quit. It's not
Joined: Jun 2011 meant for slow learners.
Posts: 1,129 When music education is seen as something for everyone
Houston, TX and it is accepted that for most it will always be just a
hobby, then of course different programs must be
created. Otherwise most kids will fail their first year
When the system is more flexible, it's more up to the
individual (or the parents) to push those who have what
it takes to take it further.

That was a government endorsed program structured to create professional

musicians by the age you complete high school or even before, the idea
was that you can either start working after it, or go to any university and
learn another trade.
Amateurs with no intention of teaching or performing could just go and
study from official teachers at any time or take lessons behind a curtain
from amateur church musicians and so on... When I was a kid I remember
that was common practice ask to the music teachers in which conservatory
they did graduate and the final score.

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