Dx7 Cristal

DX7 is not booting up at all! https://yamahadx.yahoogroups.narkive.com/S8c3xz39/dx7-is-not-booti...
YamahaDX@yahoogroups.com
DX7 is not booting up at all!

creatorlars84 13 years ago
Hello all --
I just purchased a Yamaha DX7 and am very excited about exploring this synth. However, when I power it on, I get
nothing but "00" in the LED display, and a row of black squares on the LCD. Buttons, faders, etc don't get any
response at all and the audio output produces nothing. I replaced the battery (CR2032) and the voltages on the power
rails and across the battery measure fine with my multimeter. The unit is beautiful and clean inside, with no noticeable
faults or connection issues. I'm fearing the worst here, that one of the core CPU-related chips is dead. It seems like
with something this basic, the fault has to be something that simple.
Any troubleshooting advice or guidance is greatly appreciated. I know there are some chip replacements available
here, but I don't want to pay $35 for a chip I can't at least guess will work.
Best Regards,
Lars Larsen
Gil Sicuro 13 years ago
Heyas,
First thing, disconnect the power supply board to avid getting things any worst. Start checking the voltages there. Do
you have the service manual?
cheerz
________________________________
From: creatorlars84 <***@gmail.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 3:48:52 PM
Subject: [YamahaDX] DX7 is not booting up at all!
1 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
https://narkive.com/S8c3xz39:28.11107.157
Hello all --
Best Regards,
Lars Larsen
Lars Larsen 13 years ago
Thanks for the reply!
Voltages are all good on the power supply, measuring +5V, +15, -15. I do
have the service manual, but it seems to be missing full schematics or any
sort of testing procedures. (Board layouts, connector pinouts and block
diagram are included, however.)
What next?! :)
...
Another note after further testing. The LED digit display reads "88", not
"00". Occasionally when I turn it on, the first digit will be different,
"48", " 8", etc.
...
Alan Probandt 13 years ago
A row of black squares on the LCD display means that the display controller is not getting initialized. Check the clock
to the CPU. Check that enable pulses are going to the ROM memory chips, check that all the signals on the CPU are
either 0 or +5 volts.
All this requires an oscilloscope with at least 20MHz bandwidth. The schematic (I believe) can be found in the files
section of this Group. Try the Yahoo! Vintage Synth Repair group also.
It's not likely that the custom sound chips are bad. It's most likely that over the years a solder connection in the
traces that directly connect to the CPU has broken or cracked. Go from pin to pin on the CPU with the scope probe.
Look first for a signal that is in between 0.5v and +4.5 volts. If none, determine which pins should be changing at (the
address, clock, and data pins of the CPU) and see if any are not changing. Resolder that connection between the IC
and the PCB. Check with a DVM for continuity between the pin on the CPU and those pins on the ICs that connect to
that net-trace.
These are standard procedures for troubleshooting a microprocessor-based device that a repair shop would do. If
you do take it to a shop, download and print out (as large as necessary to be able to read) the DX7 schematic and
2 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
give it to the technicians with the unit. This will save a little money and tech time.
Good luck.
--- On Sun, 5/24/09, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] DX7 is not booting up at all!
Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 2:38 PM
Another note after further testing. The LED digit display reads "88", not "00". Occasionally when I turn it on, the first
digit will be different, "48", " 8", etc.
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:
Voltages are all good on the power supply, measuring +5V, +15, -15. I do have the service manual, but it seems to be
missing full schematics or any sort of testing procedures. (Board layouts, connector pinouts and block diagram are
included, however.)
What next?! :)
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Gil Sicuro <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
3 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Heyas,
cheerz
From: creatorlars84 <***@gmail.com>

Hello all --
Best Regards,
Lars Larsen
I believe the DX7 service manual we have here in the list is incomplete, the same found everywhere on the net. If a
merciful soul can upload a full scan of the DX7 schematics and service manual that would be very much appreciated.
cheers
________________________________
4 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
From: Alan Probandt <***@yahoo.com>

A row of black squares on the LCD display means that the display controller is not getting initialized. Check the clock
to the CPU. Check that enable pulses are going to the ROM memory chips, check that all the signals on the CPU are
either 0 or +5 volts.
All this requires an oscilloscope with at least 20MHz bandwidth. The schematic (I believe) can be found in the files
section of this Group. Try the Yahoo! Vintage Synth Repair group also.
It's not likely that the custom sound chips are bad. It's most likely that over the years a solder connection in the traces
that directly connect to the CPU has broken or cracked. Go from pin to pin on the CPU with the scope probe. Look first
for a signal that is in between 0.5v and +4.5 volts. If none, determine which pins should be changing at (the address,
clock, and data pins of the CPU) and see if any are not changing. Resolder that connection between the IC and the
PCB. Check with a DVM for continuity between the pin on the CPU and those pins on the ICs that connect to that net-
trace.
These are standard procedures for troubleshooting a microprocessor- based device that a repair shop would do. If you
do take it to a shop, download and print out (as large as necessary to be able to read) the DX7 schematic and give it
to the technicians with the unit. This will save a little money and tech time.
Good luck.
--- On Sun, 5/24/09, Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com> wrote:
From: Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com>

To: ***@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 2:38 PM
Another note after further testing. The LED digit display reads "88", not "00". Occasionally when I turn it on, the first
digit will be different, "48", " 8", etc.
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com> wrote:
Voltages are all good on the power supply, measuring +5V, +15, -15. I do have the service manual, but it seems to be
missing full schematics or any sort of testing procedures. (Board layouts, connector pinouts and block diagram are
included, however.)
What next?! :)
5 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Gil Sicuro <***@yahoo. com> wrote:
Heyas,
cheerz
________________________________
From: creatorlars84 <creatorlars@ gmail.com>
Hello all --
Best Regards,
Lars Larsen
This is great advice. I know how to debug analogue circuits, but have
little familiarity with uProcessors and rom chips, etc. I'll go through it
thoroughly this week. I agree full schematics would be very helpful so that
I know the pin-out on the CPU chips. Maybe it's something simple like a bad
6 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
crystal.
...
Paul 13 years ago
Hi Lars,
I echo the responces so far, however I believe that the full schematic for the DX7 is on Dave Bensons site (I thoaught
it was here as well), but I don't think I have ever seen any PCB layouts, if you have those as a PDF send them up !
The schematic is on the form of about 8 A4s, I taped them all together (I don't have an A0 printer !)
Yes first check for microprocessor main clock on IC51 pin 4 and then at half the frequency on IC48 pins 5 and 9, then
as pulses on IC49 pins 3 and 6.
I am quoting from the file called "DX7 schematics.pdf" that is on the WEB.
I will have a further look into this soon.
Good Luck
Paul
The schematics at the Dave Bensons site is truncated jusr like everywhere else on the net. Altough it's a good start, it
would be very helpful if a merciful soul can post to this list's files a new and complete scan of the service manual.
cheers
________________________________
From: Paul <***@toucansurf.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:08:00 PM
Subject: [YamahaDX] Re: DX7 is not booting up at all!
Hi Lars,
I echo the responces so far, however I believe that

the full schematic for the DX7 is on Dave Bensons site (I thoaught it was here
as well), but I don't think I have ever seen any PCB layouts, if you have those
as a PDF send them up !
The schematic is on the form of about 8 A4s,
I taped them all together (I don't have an A0 printer !)
Yes first check for microprocessor main clock on
IC51 pin 4 and then at half the frequency on IC48 pins 5 and 9, then as pulses
on IC49 pins 3 and 6.
I am quoting from the file called "DX7
schematics.pdf" that is on the WEB.
I will have a further look into this
7 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
soon.
Good Luck
Paul
Okay, I've checked all the clock frequencies as described to the CPU and Sub
CPU and everything looks okay. Going to continue investigating, but any
further suggestions on where to look next to diagnose this specific problem
would really be appreciated.
It'd be nice to be able to diagnose if there's a problem with one of the CPU
chips themselves before spending a whole weekend testing every trace on the
board for continuity, and I'm not sure what the logical place to look next
is. Where should I check to be 100% sure that the CPU is not dead?
...
Great, thanks Paul! Having specific pins to check is extremely helpful.

I'll dig up the pdf you've mentioned and I'll report back after I've opened
it back up. I have a photocopied service manual that came with the synth,
but never got to talk with the previous owner as I purchased it through a
friend. I'll check the paper copy I have against anything I find online,
and will definitely upload PDFs of any missing material.
Lars
...
Hello,
Do you have access to an oscilloscope? Even a simple 20MHz bandwidth entry-level scope would be good.
I attach a wire to the + scope lead with a lead that has two alligator clips on each end. Then attach the gnd lead
to the ground of the DX7. I 'brush' the end of the 'wire' probe one by one on each of the pins of the memory chips
while the DX7 is running. I check for activity between 0 and +5 on all the address and data lines of each memory
chip. It doesn't take very long, only a few minutes. If you see activity (the signal bouncing between 0 and +5 on these
pins) then the CPU is working.
Maybe the DX7 is working except for the LCD display.
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: DX7 is not booting up at all!
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 4:40 PM
8 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Okay, I've checked all the clock frequencies as described to the CPU and Sub CPU and everything looks okay. Going
to continue investigating, but any further suggestions on where to look next to diagnose this specific problem would
really be appreciated.
It'd be nice to be able to diagnose if there's a problem with one of the CPU chips themselves before spending a whole
weekend testing every trace on the board for continuity, and I'm not sure what the logical place to look next is. Where
should I check to be 100% sure that the CPU is not dead?
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gil Sicuro <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
cheers
From: Paul <***@toucansurf.com>

Hi Lars,
9 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Good Luck
Paul
Cool. I'm definitely seeing a pulse on all of the RAM pins, but it's not
very clean looking (my oscilloscope is a very old Heathkit model so that is
probably why.) I'll check all the RAM and ROM chips, but I guess this means
the CPU is running at least. I would suspect a dead LCD too, but both the
LED digits and the LCD display are giving me nothing. How can I more
specifically test the initialization of the display drivers?
...
Gregg Sheehan 13 years ago
! This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Hey Gregg -- Sorry if I seem impatient, and for all the spam on your list.
:) You guys have been more than helpful. Unfortunately getting this
pro-serviced is way out of budget (the only local guy charges $200 to even
look at a vintage synth, even if he can't fix it.) Mainly I'm interested in
seeing if I can get it back to life for my own personal
satisfaction/edification. If I can't get it working, I'll code a simple
uProcessor based MIDI Keyboard using the existing keybed, and then gut the
rest... plenty of room in this case and power supply to put some analog
circuits!
Tell me if this sounds right...
Using my DVM as a frequency meter, I am reading "1.18MHz" going into pins

AD0-AD7 going into IC32 74LS254. Reading the output pins (D0-D7), I am
reading "1.18MHz" but not on pins D0, D2, & D3. The voltage levels on these
pins are lower than the pins reading "1.18MHz" as well. Does this sound
like a bad chip?
...
Wayne Kolybabi 13 years ago
I'm not electronicly saavy but just a thought..... Do you get any sound when you insert a ROM Cartridge or is that silent
too ? Maybe you don't have any files saved to the 32 internal memory banks.
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:
10 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30

Received: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 6:36 PM
Cool. I'm definitely seeing a pulse on all of the RAM pins, but it's not very clean looking (my oscilloscope is a very old
Heathkit model so that is probably why.) I'll check all the RAM and ROM chips, but I guess this means the CPU is
running at least. I would suspect a dead LCD too, but both the LED digits and the LCD display are giving me nothing.
How can I more specifically test the initialization of the display drivers?
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Alan Probandt <alan_probandt@ yahoo.com> wrote:
11 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Hello,
Do you have access to an oscilloscope? Even a simple 20MHz bandwidth entry-level scope would be good.
I attach a wire to the + scope lead with a lead that has two alligator clips on each end. Then attach the gnd lead
to the ground of the DX7. I 'brush' the end of the 'wire' probe one by one on each of the pins of the memory chips
while the DX7 is running. I check for activity between 0 and +5 on all the address and data lines of each memory
chip. It doesn't take very long, only a few minutes. If you see activity (the signal bouncing between 0 and +5 on these
pins) then the CPU is working.
Maybe the DX7 is working except for the LCD display.
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com> wrote:


Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 4:40 PM
Okay, I've checked all the clock frequencies as described to the CPU and Sub CPU and everything looks okay. Going
to continue investigating, but any further suggestions on where to look next to diagnose this specific problem would
really be appreciated.
It'd be nice to be able to diagnose if there's a problem with one of the CPU chips themselves before spending a whole
weekend testing every trace on the board for continuity, and I'm not sure what the logical place to look next is. Where
should I check to be 100% sure that the CPU is not dead?
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gil Sicuro <***@yahoo. com> wrote:
12 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
cheers
From: Paul <***@toucansur f.com>


Hi Lars,
Good Luck
Paul
13 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
__________________________________________________________________
14 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
Gee, I wish that I could get $200 just to look at a vintage synth. Most likely this technician is just saying that to avoid
dealing with vintage microprocessor gear. I'm reminded of this when I looked at the DX7 schematic. The 63B03 CPU
is a clone of the Motorola 6803 that was popular for a period of time in the late 1970s. This was the CPU in the first
computer that I ever bought, the Radio Shack MC-10 (mini-color computer) in 1984. I was a student then and
remember reading about signal lines like 'E' that are unique to this CPU family. But it has been a long time.
IC32 is a data bus transceiver that strengthens the data lines between the CPU and all the memory chips. It's a
74LS245, not a 254. It definitely should have clean signals (0 to +4.5v) and very active signals on the pins of the right
side of the chip (pins 11-18). Actually any voltage level on the Data pins (11-18) that is above +3.5V will be a valid
logic 1 signal. Anything below 0.7v is a logic 0. Anything between +3.5 and 0.7 is an invalid logic level and should
never be seen on the data bus. Pin 19 will show about 1.18MHz and it should be a stable waveform on the scope,
although probably not a square wave. Having IC32 be bad would definitely muck up the system. All the data lines on
the right side of the chip should show constant activity. If their is no activity check the corresponding data/address pin
opposite it for activity. IC32 allows data on one side of the chip to flow (and be amplified) out the other side when pin
19 \E is
low. The direction of the data, either from the CPU to the RAM and sound chips, or from the ROM to the CPU
depends on the logic of the DIR pin 1.
If several of the data pins on this chip are definitely not showing any signal, then it should be replaced. I'll catch the
devil for saying this, but you can substitute a 74HCT245 if a 74LS245 is impossible to find. Get a very small pair of
diagonal clippers and cut each pin of the bad chip right at the body of the chip. Leave the other end of the pins
soldered to the board. Solder the pin tips of the new chip to the clipped pins of the old chip. Power up and check that
the data bus signals are getting through the new chip and to the memory ICs. Don't use the frequency meter to test if
the signals on IC32 are good, use the scope.
Thanks again for all the debugging help! I'll figure this out yet. It
looks like the 74LS245 is probably fine -- I checked the outputs of pins
AD0-AD7 on the main uProcessor and pins D0-D7 on the RAM & ROM chips for
signal. Since the D0-D7 pins are what go to the LED/LCD displays, I figure
those are best to check first. AD0/D0, AD2/D2, AD3/D3 are all giving me a
very weak signal (something like 0 to 0.5V instead of 0 to 3.7V like the
other five pins.) The signal is there though, it just looks like the
amplitude is not high enough... so after what you've said, this doesn't seem
right to me. I also tested for continuity between the 74LS245 pins 11-18
and the appropriate pins on the ROM & RAM chips and everything is okay
there. (I resocketed the RAM & ROM chips as well, just to be safe as
suggested.)
With that in mind, what could be causing the weak signal on just those
pins? Does this point to any specific ideas?
...
Those signals aren't weak, they're wrong. Digital chips like the 74xx series put out logic levels only. Anything below
0.7 is a logic 0 and anything above 3.5 is logic 1. If the signal on the data pins on the right side of the chip (pins
11-18) is always logic 0, it's not right.
The real question is what is causes this. Half the time these pins (11-18) are input and half they are output. One side
15 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
is the CPU and the other side is the data bus that goes all over the place.
I've read that the 40xxx digital chips were often the first to burn out in a 1980's microprocessor-based system. On
this system, those would be the LED driver chips, IC25 and IC26. If you removed those, either by pulling them out of
sockets, or, more likely by clipping the chip body from the pin leads, the LED display would be dead. But the circuit
would possibly now work. IC25 and 26 could be replaced by 74HCT374 chips, which are cheap, common, and would
drive the LED segments. This seems to me to be the most likely trouble point that is crashing the data bus.
Alan Probandt
Portland, Oregon USA (1000 km north of San Francisco, 300 km south of Seattle)
--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 12:21 AM
Thanks again for all the debugging help! I'll figure this out yet. It looks like the 74LS245 is probably fine -- I checked
the outputs of pins AD0-AD7 on the main uProcessor and pins D0-D7 on the RAM & ROM chips for signal. Since the
D0-D7 pins are what go to the LED/LCD displays, I figure those are best to check first. AD0/D0, AD2/D2, AD3/D3 are
all giving me a very weak signal (something like 0 to 0.5V instead of 0 to 3.7V like the other five pins.) The signal is
there though, it just looks like the amplitude is not high enough... so after what you've said, this doesn't seem right to
me. I also tested for continuity between the 74LS245 pins 11-18 and the appropriate pins on the ROM & RAM chips
and everything is okay there. (I resocketed the RAM & ROM chips as well, just to be safe as suggested.)
With that in mind, what could be causing the weak signal on just those pins? Does this point to any specific ideas?
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Alan Probandt <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
16 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
side of the chip (pins
11-18). Actually any voltage level on the Data pins (11-18) that is above +3.5V will be a valid logic 1 signal. Anything
below 0.7v is a logic 0. Anything between +3.5 and 0.7 is an invalid logic level and should never be seen on the data
bus. Pin 19 will show about 1.18MHz and it should be a stable waveform on the scope, although probably not a
square wave. Having IC32 be bad would definitely muck up the system. All the data lines on the right side of the chip
should show constant activity. If their is no activity check the corresponding data/address pin opposite it for activity.
IC32 allows data on one side of the chip to flow (and be amplified) out the other side when pin 19 \E is low. The
direction of the data, either from the CPU to the RAM and sound chips, or from the ROM to the CPU depends on the
logic of the DIR pin 1.
If several of the data pins on this chip are definitely not

showing any signal, then it should be replaced. I'll catch the devil for saying this, but you can substitute a 74HCT245 if
a 74LS245 is impossible to find. Get a very small pair of diagonal clippers and cut each pin of the bad chip right at
the body of the chip. Leave the other end of the pins soldered to the board. Solder the pin tips of the new chip to the
clipped pins of the old chip. Power up and check that the data bus signals are getting through the new chip and to the
memory ICs. Don't use the frequency meter to test if the signals on IC32 are good, use the scope.
17 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Alan's right. Use the scope. For digital work, a DMM goes about as far as the power supply for a troubleshooting
tool.He is also right about the specific voltage levels of data and address signals. They are rarely perfect 0 VDC and
5VDC. This is where experience will tell you that a good data line, for example is typically 3.5 volts high( or higher),
and conversly "off" will not be perfectly zero but around.7 (transistor threshold).
All this yapping and typing, is refreshing my memory ( pun intended). DX UPC troubleshooting 101----make sure the
reset circuitry is functioning. Monitor the reset line with scope- power up and after a short delay, there should be a
state change and the reset line will then settle to whatever it's normal running state is. (Hi/ low? -I forget- the
schematic will say- "reset" with the "not"line over is active low, run state is high) Note that this happens a short time
AFTER the supply voltages come up.
Another point of failure- the D/A converter and D/A buffer. I will look at a schematic and see if anything else pops up.
Is the power supply clean?- ripple will cause many headaches. Pooched filter caps were common.
Re: the guy charging 200.00. It sounds like a lot, but imagine spending an afternoon doing this with no resolution. You
only make what you bill out. I'm fixing an OB-8 right now- same type of problem- it will be expensive, but these go for
huge money right now- almost approaching new list price- 3-4K$, so it's worth it, to spend 200-500 on repair. Not so
our beloved DX boards, unfortunately. It's like all the cheap throw away Chinese audio appliances, n'est pas?
Gregg Sheehan
If one person has delusions, we call them psychotic. If, however, 1.5 billion people have delusions we must apparently
call them a religious group, and respect their delusionary state.
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Alan Probandt <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

18 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
19 \E is
__________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
Good, thanks for the advice. It's definitely apparent that I'm not getting
valid signals on AD0/D0, AD2/D2, AD3/D3 but the others look okay.
I removed IC25 & IC26 as suggested. This seemed to make a lot of sense,
since the left LED digit would give random values upon power up -- and
sometimes change to another random value when I heard the reset "click".
Whereas the right one would always show "8." This didn't fix the issue,
though. But I can order replacement chips as suggested when/if I get the
rest of the circuit operational.
I am seeing a high pulse at the Reset pin of the main uProcessor shortly
after startup, then it stays low. So I don't think it's constantly
resetting itself or anything. Something somewhere has to be crashing the
data bus on those three lines. Power looks good to me -- how can I check
19 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
for ripple? Caps show no signs of bulging/leaking. I don't guess there's

an easy way to isolate parts of the circuit to check for faults. Awful lot
of chips to replace one by one -- don't think I'd want to go that far,
unless I had a good guess what was wrong.
I agree that the amount of work put into debugging a circuit like this is
worth the money for the expertise -- but, as you've said, not worth it for
the DX when I can wait and get a new one sometime for under 200 easily. I
paid 50 for this one, the guy told me it just needed a new battery
(obviously just trying to get rid of it.)
Any other ideas/guesses greatly appreciated! I'll keep poking in it as I

continue to think of stuff to test/try.
Thanks,
Lars
...
Paul 13 years ago
Hi Lars,
Well done so far, one thing that has just occured to me is to disconnect (carefully) all the connectors and re-connect
them, over the years ( a few decades !) the mating surfaces can tarnish and a disconnect-reconnect cycle gives them
a clean. The LCD has a standard interface for character style LCDs and any 16 X 2 LCD with the connections on the
long edge will almost certanly fit, I relaced mine with a backlit unit for less than £10 ( $15 ). When I first got mine, as
an electro-geek , the first thing I did was cycle all the connectors and replace the battery (much easier with the
motherboard removed !)
The things that appear to be missing from the WEB service manual are the PCB drawings and some of the fault charts
I think, the schematic itself appears complete, if even has the circuit of the cartridges (I made myself an 8 bank RAM
cart from it)
I echo the use of a 'scope a worthwhile addition to the arsenal if you are getting into electronics or instrument fixing,
failing that a low current LED plus resistor will tell you whether the line is High . Low or pulsing (fast pulses will make it
a bit dimmer)
All for now, keep up the good work
Paul
Lars,
To look at something that is basically a shifting DC level, not an AC waveform just sitting above zero, put the scope
input channel in Ground mode, center (move) the trace. Put the same channel in DC mode, now. Vertical at 1 or
2volts/ division. Horizontal around 1- 10ms. This way the center of the screen represents 0 VDC, up is positive, down
is negative. This allows you to see relatively slow transitions in DC level, just like reset lines! This also, with the
Horizontal set faster, allows you to view tri-state data lines, meaning data signals, both above and below zero, looking
almost like a very high frequency audio signal crossing zero in the middle, albeit clipped. Fairly common.
Re: PS Ripple. Since the power supply is supposed to be clean DC, the trace will be above zero, if positive, etc. and
perfectly flat......any deviation, or wavey-looking stuff is power supply garbage, usually indicating bad electrolytics.
20 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Increase the horizontal speed and check for high frequency RF garbage while you're there, as well.
Once you get good with a scope, you can measure anything, very accurately. The newer ones usually have built in
adjustable cursers/ measurment displays anyway, for voltage, period, freq, delta-V, digital modes for signal capture,
etc: real easy.
Gregg Sheehan

Received: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 10:56 AM
Good, thanks for the advice. It's definitely apparent that I'm not getting valid signals on AD0/D0, AD2/D2, AD3/D3 but
the others look okay.
I removed IC25 & IC26 as suggested. This seemed to make a lot of sense, since the left LED digit would give random
values upon power up -- and sometimes change to another random value when I heard the reset "click". Whereas the
right one would always show "8." This didn't fix the issue, though. But I can order replacement chips as suggested
when/if I get the rest of the circuit operational.
I am seeing a high pulse at the Reset pin of the main uProcessor shortly after startup, then it stays low. So I don't
think it's constantly resetting itself or anything. Something somewhere has to be crashing the data bus on those three
lines. Power looks good to me -- how can I check for ripple? Caps show no signs of bulging/leaking. I don't guess
there's an easy way to isolate parts of the circuit to check for faults. Awful lot of chips to replace one by one -- don't
think I'd want to go that far, unless I had a good guess what was wrong.
I agree that the amount of work put into debugging a circuit like this is worth the money for the expertise -- but, as
you've said, not worth it for the DX when I can wait and get a new one sometime for under 200 easily. I paid 50 for
this one, the guy told me it just needed a new battery (obviously just trying to get rid of it.)
Any other ideas/guesses greatly appreciated! I'll keep poking in it as I continue to think of stuff to test/try.
Thanks,
Lars
21 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Gregg Sheehan <***@yahoo. com> wrote:
Gregg Sheehan
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Alan Probandt <alan_probandt@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Alan Probandt <alan_probandt@ yahoo.com>

22 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
19 \E is
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
23 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
__________________________________________________________________
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for
Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
To check ripple, set the scope on AC input; 1 volt per division. Put the probe on the +5V, the +15v line, or the -15V
line, NOT the main power 120VAC line. Ripple will look like the top of an airplane wing. It shouldn't be more than a
quarter volt peak-to-peak.
As a microprocessor electronics technician, I disagree with the idea that someone should get $200 to 'look' at a an
old system that costs $50. A skilled person should be able to find obvious and 'easy' stuff in about a half hour of
probing if they have a schematic. They should charge $20 for that first half hour. They should speak a report as the
work into a speech-to-text program and give the text file either as a printed report or as a file on a flash disk to the
customer if they can't fix the problem in a half hour. They should charge no more than $40 an hour and no more than
twice what they paid for the parts they replace.
With the economy collapsing it's time people started being realistic about what they charge for the services they
provide. I know that everyone disagrees with me, but that's my opinion. Thank you.

24 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Thanks,
Lars
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Gregg Sheehan <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gregg Sheehan
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Alan Probandt <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
25 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30

19 \E is

Hello Alan and all you folks,
26 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
I have seen a lot of good and skilled people helping each other here, which is a wonderful spirit.
Altough this is not about a Yamaha DX, I wonder if someone here would kindly help me to debug a malfunctional
Roland Jupiter-6? Seems the problem is not that serious, we could discuss in private to do not bring the list off topic.
Any help would be much appreciated. I can let the service manual available for download.
cheers
Gil
________________________________
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:37:21 PM
As a microprocessor electronics technician, I disagree with the idea that someone should get $200 to 'look' at a an old
system that costs $50. A skilled person should be able to find obvious and 'easy' stuff in about a half hour of probing if
they have a schematic. They should charge $20 for that first half hour. They should speak a report as the work into a
speech-to-text program and give the text file either as a printed report or as a file on a flash disk to the customer if
they can't fix the problem in a half hour. They should charge no more than $40 an hour and no more than twice what
they paid for the parts they replace.
--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com> wrote:

27 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
I am seeing a high pulse at the Reset pin of the main uProcessor shortly after startup, then it stays low. So I don't think
it's constantly resetting itself or anything. Something somewhere has to be crashing the data bus on those three lines.
Power looks good to me -- how can I check for ripple? Caps show no signs of bulging/leaking. I don't guess there's an
easy way to isolate parts of the circuit to check for faults. Awful lot of chips to replace one by one -- don't think I'd want
to go that far, unless I had a good guess what was wrong.
you've said, not worth it for the DX when I can wait and get a new one sometime for under 200 easily. I paid 50 for this
one, the guy told me it just needed a new battery (obviously just trying to get rid of it.)
Thanks,
Lars
Gregg Sheehan
28 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30

the right side of the chip should show constant activity. If their is no activity check the cor
responding data/address pin opposite it for activity. IC32 allows data on one side of the chip to flow (and be amplified)
out the other side when pin 19 \E is low.
The direction of the data, either from the CPU to the RAM and sound chips, or from the ROM to the CPU depends on
the logic of the DIR pin 1.
________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift?Give the gift of Flickr!
Alan,
You must live somewhere the average house price, is not $800,000.
Standard bench service rate, in this particular part of the world, was $45 an hour, thirty years ago.
Car mechanics are well over 120 per hour, now.
I'm just sayin'..........
29 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Gregg Sheehan
--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Alan Probandt <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

Received: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 5:37 PM
As a microprocessor electronics technician, I disagree with the idea that someone should get $200 to 'look' at a an
old system that costs $50. A skilled person should be able to find obvious and 'easy' stuff in about a half hour of
probing if they have a schematic. They should charge $20 for that first half hour. They should speak a report as the
work into a speech-to-text program and give the text file either as a printed report or as a file on a flash disk to the
customer if they can't fix the problem in a half hour. They should charge no more than $40 an hour and no more than
twice what they paid for the parts they replace.
--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com> wrote:

30 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Thanks,
Lars
31 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Gregg Sheehan

19 \E is
32 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
__________________________________________________________________
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click
on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
Wendy Stringer 10 years ago
Yamaha DX7 LED = 88, LCD = Black Boxes caused by a bad 9.4265 MHz Crystal
I had the problem with my DX7 (after it was dropped from a height of 4 feet when the keyboard stand collapsed)
where upon power up the LED display was "88" and the LCD display was all black boxes, and none of the keys or
buttons worked.
Doing a Google search for "dx7 display 88" I saw where others had posted of having similar problems and their
attempts to troubleshoot but nothing of a final fix for this, so I am posting my experience here.
After some trobleshooting (opening up the DX7, removing and inspecting all the circuit boards looking for cracks,
checking for +5, +15, -15 voltages at the ICs), turning off the power and removing the CR2032 memory battery and
waiting to reset everything back to its default state with no results, I then thought to check for clock frequencies using
an oscilloscope. There was no 9.4265 master clock frequency at pins 5 or 6 of IC 48, just a straight line. For
33 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
comparison there was a 4 MHz clock frequency (a nice beautiful 4 MHz sine wave) at pins 4 and 5 of Sub CPU IC 13.
Not having a spare 9.4265 MHz Crystal I substituted a much more common 10.000 MHz crystal for test purposes and
the displays came up normally (except for the patch memory obviously being wiped out). I ordered a 9.4265 MHz
crystal from International Crystal Manufacturing http://www.icmfg.com/ 1-800-725-1426 and ordered a 9.4265 MHz
HC-49 case, series resonant, 20 pf load capacitance (because they insisted of having these specs defined and I
thought these were the most likely for that crystal) and was told three weeks delivery time.
***@gmail.com
March 9, 2013
Pictures:
34 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, "creatorlars84" <***@...> wrote:
Hello all --
Best Regards,
Lars Larsen
Wendy Stringer 10 years ago
Status update on my DX7 repair.
Replacement 9.4265 MHz Crystal arrives from International Crystal Manufacturing:
DX7 on work bench ready to be worked on to be made working again:
Top panel flipped up:
35 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Key bed mounting assembly flipped up showing the cables on the right underside (there are also two sets of wires on
the left side that you seperate the connectors to without flipping the keybed mounting assembly upside down):
[IMG] [/IMG]
Key bed mounting assembly removed:
Metal piece over lower part of circuit board removed:
Old crystal removed showing Solder-Wick copper braid that was used with the soldering iron to suck up the solder
from the crystal mounting holes on the circuit board:
36 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Soldering in the new crystal on the underside of the circuit board:
New crystal mounted on circuit board:
I used a plastic washer and Goop clear sealant to mount the case to the circuit board for added shock resistance. (It is
not necessary to do this):
Sending patch bank to DX7 using MIDI transfer program and MIDI cable: (DX7: [Memory Protect] [Internal] = OFF,
[Function] [8] MIDI SYSTEM EXCLUSIVE = AVAIL).
37 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
Success! All patches and sounds check out ok!
Continue reading on narkive:

SEARCH RESULTS FOR 'DX7 IS NOT BOOTING UP AT ALL!' (QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS)
5 Looking at tonight and the weeks ahead . . . WWE Raw?

replies started 13 years ago wrestling
3 What exactly is my computer's issue?

replies started 11 years ago laptops & notebooks
3 Can I dual-boot Ubuntu?

replies started 11 years ago software
3 Trojan Virus Can't Get Rid of?

replies started 12 years ago security
4 How to reset my network login/password for my dynex router dx-wgrtr wrireless g router?
replies started 14 years ago computer networking
about - legalese
38 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
39 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
40 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
41 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30
42 of 42 11/19/22, 12:30

Dx7 Cristal

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Title

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

Dx7 Cristal

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

DX7 is not booting up at all! https://yamahadx.yahoogroups.narkive.com/S8c3xz39/dx7-is-not-booti...

DX7 is not booting up at all!

Gil Sicuro 13 years ago

Thanks for the reply!

Lars Larsen 13 years ago

Alan Probandt 13 years ago

--- On Sun, 5/24/09, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com>

Thanks for the reply!

From: creatorlars84 <***@gmail.com>

From: Alan Probandt <***@yahoo.com>

--- On Sun, 5/24/09, Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com>

Thanks for the reply!

Paul 13 years ago

I echo the responces so far, however I believe that

Lars Larsen 13 years ago

Great, thanks Paul! Having specific pins to check is extremely helpful.

Alan Probandt 13 years ago

--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com>

From: Paul <***@toucansurf.com>

Lars Larsen 13 years ago

Gregg Sheehan 13 years ago

! This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

Lars Larsen 13 years ago

Tell me if this sounds right...

Using my DVM as a frequency meter, I am reading "1.18MHz" going into pins

Wayne Kolybabi 13 years ago

--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: DX7 is not booting up at all!

Maybe the DX7 is working except for the LCD display.

--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com>

To: ***@yahoogroup s.com

From: Paul <***@toucansur f.com>

Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:08:00 PM

Alan Probandt 13 years ago

--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com>

If several of the data pins on this chip are definitely not

--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Alan Probandt <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Alan Probandt <***@yahoo.com>

for ripple? Caps show no signs of bulging/leaking. I don't guess there's

Any other ideas/guesses greatly appreciated! I'll keep poking in it as I

Paul 13 years ago

All for now, keep up the good work

--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com>

--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Alan Probandt <alan_probandt@ yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Alan Probandt <alan_probandt@ yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: DX7 is not booting up at all!

Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lars Larsen <***@gmail.com>

--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Alan Probandt <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Alan Probandt <***@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Re: DX7 is not booting up at all!

Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

Hello Alan and all you folks,

--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lars Larsen <creatorlars@ gmail.com>

--- In @yahoogroups.com, "creatorlars84" <@...> wrote: