Perfection-Imperfection

Conversation with Religious Group

—
July 27, 1968, Montreal
Prabhupāda: I am imperfect. That's all right. But I know what is
perfection.
Guest (1): I cannot see that. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No. Don't laugh. Suppose you are here. You have to
go to London. If you have purchased the ticket for London and if you
are sure that you have got an aeroplane, so even you have not gone
to reach London, but you are sure that you are going to London.
Guest (1): Yes. I can be sure. I understand that, that you are sure. I
have no doubt about that. But how can your security...
Prabhupāda: No, no, if I have understood that my destination is
London—I am going to London—then if I feel secure, that is my
happiness.
Guest (1): So you are completely happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because I know, "If I go to London, I will be
happy." So I am going there, therefore I am happy.
Guest (1): But you're not in London yet.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. I have already told you. That very
purchase of ticket and the understanding that you are surely going to
London, that is happiness.
Guest (1): But then there is no searching.
Prabhupāda: So what is that? If my destination is London, why
there is searching? There is no use of searching.
Guest (1): Well, then why a conference with men of other religions?
Prabhupāda: No, that conference is to consult together that
London is the destination.
Guest (1): But then you know of a destination.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): But the idea that you have behind your mind, is to tell
other people where the destination is, not to search for it with them.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say search. I have already searched out.
Guest (1): Yes. So then I feel myself that this is not a conference.
Prabhupāda: Why not conference? If I have got some good news to
tell you, is it not conference?
Guest (2): Swamiji, I think the objective will be... As far as you are
concerned, it will be London. As far as I am concerned, it may be
Paris or Hawaii.
Prabhupāda: No, then that is not... No, that is not. Hawaii... Then
we have to consider where real happiness, whether it is in Hawaii or
in Paris or in...
Guest (2): True. But then you are not going to a country that it is
not London. And if I say I am not going to...
Prabhupāda: That is going on. That is going on. There are
innumerable planets, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is
said, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-
vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25]. Now, if you think that London is not good for you,
Paris is good for you, it is good for you.
Guest (3): Well, then the whole conference becomes useless.
Prabhupāda: No. If you don't agree that which is the..., or do not
understand what is the highest goal, then conference is useless. If
you keep yourself to the understanding where you are, then there is
no need of conference.
Guest (1): That is the same thing...
Prabhupāda: No, not exactly the same thing. That is the
conference—I want to convince you that London is the real place of
happiness.
Guest (1): But maybe I think that I know...
Prabhupāda: You may think, but you'll have to be convinced that
your thinking is wrong.
Guest (1): Or maybe I can convince you that your thinking is
wrong.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Therefore conference required.
(laughter) Therefore conference required.
Guest (2): Swamiji, the time is running out, however, and I would
like to thank you very much for the, your coming in our center here.
Prabhupāda: Now you are convinced that conference is required.
You have to convince me; I'll have to convince you.
Guest (2): I think that it is through those confrontations and
through those listenings to each other... [break] (French) man
Guest (4): If you go to London, I want to go to India, and then we
shall be separated. So we must all go both to London and India.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that first of all we have to decide
where to go. If anyone is satisfied that "I am satisfied with going to
London or going to Paris..."
Guest (4): But that is the question. Where should we go? If you
believe you must go to London, I believe very strongly I must go to
India, and I am convinced that to me India is London...
Prabhupāda: No. As you are convinced that going to India is good
for you, similarly, you must change your conviction also, that going
to London is also nice.
Guest (4): Yes. But so may you also change your conviction.
Prabhupāda: I may... Yes, if you can convince me. Therefore
conference...
Guest (4): If you believe that you cannot be convinced...
Prabhupāda: No. I believe you can convince me. If we are
reasonable...
Guest (4): But then you are searching.
Prabhupāda: What? No. My searching is complete. I...
Guest (4): But then I cannot convince you of anything.
Prabhupāda: No. Why not? You have got reason; I have got
reason. You have to show me that these are favorable condition in
Paris.
Guest (4): But how can I convince you? Because you are saying that
you cannot...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Convince means you have to convince me
with your reasoning power or presentation. That is not very difficult
thing. Two lawyers are fighting in the court. They are convincing.
Now the judgement is there. So that fighting means for convincing,
not only in law court, in everywhere. In assembly, in Parliament, in
Senate house. That is a regular thing. Now the majority is accepting.
Now this shall be... What is that?
Devotee: (inaudible)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Show it now. (end)