Cannes Paco . MAS R MALCOLM WHEELER: 695 NICHOLSON "=" THE VISIONARY WHO_ | "0.88 FOUNDED DC COMICS! eae Teele El TET Te De ae) SN CREIG FLESSEL WINSLOW MORTIMER pif TatNOW SHIPPING! Batman, ls he the campy Caped Crusader? Or the grim Gotham Guardian? Both, as The Batcave Companion reveals. On the brink of cancelation in 1969, Batman was cescued by DC Comics editor Julius Schwartz, wo, abetted by several talented writers and artists, gave the hero a muct-needed “New Look" which soon catapulted Batman to rultimeda stardom, Inthe next decade, when Batman required another fresh start, Schwartz once again led a team of creators that returied the here to his “creature ofthe night” roots Witers Michael Eury (The Krypton Companion, The Justice League Companion) and Michael Kronenberg (Spies, Vrens, and Masters of Kung Fur The Art of Paul Gulaey unoath the etories behind the stris ofboth Batman's "New Look” and Bronze Age (1870s) comic-book es through incisive essays, valuable issue-by issue indexes, and insightul commentary from many of the Visionaries responsible for and ineired by Batman's 1960s and 1970s adventures: Neal Adams, Michael Allred, Terry Austin, Mike W. Barr, Steve Englehart, Mike Friedrich, Mike Grell, Carmine Infantino, Joe Giella, ‘Adam Hughes, Sheldon Moldof, Will Murray, Dennis | oO” MPA N « aly NENeERG O'Neil, Bob Rozakis, Mark Waid, Len Wein, and MICHAEL EURY + MIC HAE Bernie Wrightson. Featuring 240 art and info-packed pages, The Batcave Companion is a must-have examination of two of the most influential periods in Batman's 70-year history. Back Issue’s MICHAEL iano EURY & MICHAEL KRONENBERG ISBN 978-1-893905-78-8 $26.95 in the U.S. plus shipping @: TWottorrons. Celebrating The Art & History Of Comics, = ‘Twoltonenes + 10407 Sdfodtowm Dive «Raleigh,NC 27646 USA» 919-449-0346» FAX: 919-449-0327» Emall twomonow@aslcom + ww twomenews emVol. 3, No. 88 / August 2009 Eur Roy Thomas Asoc Editors Bill Schelly Jim mash Design & Layout Christopher Day Consiing Edtor John Morrow FCA Edtor PC. Hamestnck Conic Capt Ede Michael Gilbert Ezditoral Honor Roll Jerry G. Bails (founder) Ronn Fos, Biljo White Mike Fev Galton Diector Bob Brody, Cooks Productions Cover Avi Winsow Mortimer Cover Colorist Tom Zisko Wok Special Thank to Jack Adie San Le Jon Ade Dig Leona Bes in Miche alae it Amih Dan Nala Hingy Anis Som Marele David Among race Mason Micha furier® Monroe aye fined Sean nar Jone Selon Mott hus Bakery ean Nes Dominic ong” Mex en Mortimer Matady Pra Moder Newarema Won Jason Brann Christine Quigley ‘Nicky Wheeler- John G. Pierce Nihon Brown Hab Rad Nik Caputo Chane Raber Misa Caton De Peter Sei I Chery David Seed Chet Con ord Sag Kotha Nar Svape Trea Davidson Ca Toe DwigiseDekee” ia kr Mice Bunne Dan Ths MuckBvamer Anthony Tain Mice Fiance! Ulan Ronirmandce” fm Vanse Shanefoly ten Wen Ronan Ante Wieder Jeff Gelb ‘Nicholson Heer Ciere Dug Weer IrvGoldenb ‘hon Jemiertisnetinck tan Wher iunayapet "Nihon fimo by Zoo Pater This issue is dedicated to the memory of ‘Major Malcolm WheelerNicholson, John Wright, & Roger Armstrong PUT ON YOUR Writer/Editorial: Major Revelations . “A Real Iconic, Quintessential American Figure” eee (Christina Blakeney talks to Jim Amash about her ilusrious grandfather, Major Malcolm Wheeler “His Goal Was The Graphic Novel” . aeearseezesi sD Douglas Whecler-Nicholbon on his father and the early days of DC—and Superman! “He Was Going To Go For The Big Idea’. ‘Nicky Wheeler-Nicholson Brown in search of her grandfathers super-sectets| “The Old Beezer”. . The Major’ daughter Antoinette Wheeler Nicholson on her legendary sre Beaver Hats! Hobo Disguises! Naked Women On Horseback!. 55 Pioneer comics artist Creig Fes tells lan Wheler-Nicholson about 1930s National/DC! “Cartoonists Are Like Kids!” . Mrs Fileen Mortimer interviewed by Edy Zeno about er late husband, Golden Age antit Win Mortimer Mr. Monster's Comic Crypt! Dr. Lauretta Bender - Part Il. 65 “Michael T, Gilbert re-intraduces the “anti Werthan”—one of comics’ carly defenders Comic Fandom Archive: John Wright, 1933-2008 .......71 ‘tbat o John Wright, one othe beght Hs of early comes fandom, presente by Bil Schally In Memoriam: Roger Armstrong -.-76 re: [correspondence, comments, & remections] 7 FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #147 .... -81 PC. Hamertinck showeasesC.C, Beck, Mare Swayze—and Fatman the Hunan Flying Saucer! On Our Cover: What to feature on a cover ofan ise of Alter Ego largely centered around Major ‘Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson, the lite-known visionary who basicaly founded DC Comics? AUB fs primarily « magazine devoted to supershero comics ofthe Golden and Silver Ages, and the Major was ‘gone from the company by spring of 1938 when Superman made his debut in Action Comics #1, while ‘Batman was stil a year in the future, Stl, those two are beyond all doubt the greatest icons ofthat ‘comics giatso we chose « clase drawing by Winslow Mortimer done fora DC public service page honoring the Boy Scouts of America. It appeared, among other places, on te inside back cover of Al Star Comics #53 (June-July 1950) and was reprinted recently in the Conc Crypt section of AVE #62, Somehow it seemed iting to have Superman, Batman, and Robin salting the Major! Thanks to Niky Wheeler-Nicholson Brown and the W-N family for the photo, which is also seen and discussed on p. 9 of this ise, [Art 82009 DC Comics photo ©2009 Major Malcolm Whecler-Nicholson Estate] Above: One ofthe more notable one-page “omic strips" in 1935 New Fun #1 was artist Clem Gretta on Drake on the Planet Saro” a Flash Gordon wannabe. In this fourth panel on the 12-panel page, om an his companion Betty land on Saro after thei hot-air balloon () somehow manages to rise yond art gravily-pul” and, where Flash encountered Hawkmen, Lion Men, and the lke, this pair at once run ito "msidget men’! All PC. aside, i all reminds Ye Editor of something Golden Age ‘writing star Gardner Fox once wrote him: “Anything worked in the comics i those dear, departed days!" Thanks to Ron Frantz forthe photocopy. [0209 DC Comics] errrry Far: (03) £26680, Noydaaine om. Sind suburipion fonds to. Towllerave, NOT to the si “fc:2 writer/editorial Major Revelations sjor Malcolm Whecler- Nicholson has long been one ofthe st mysterious figures in comic hook history A shadowy presence who founded National Allied Publications, which overtime evolved into the entity now known as ‘Comics-—one ofthe earliest andl soon one of the largest and most nf cata, companies ever to publish comic books. The man who, for whatever reason combination af reasons, shandoned the then-standard practice of simply licensing the rights to reprint previously printed newspaper comic strips in fvor of producing ‘brand new material that only looked like conic strips ‘Aad of course, since it was NationalfDC' issuing of Action Comes 8 in 1938 that knocked the fedling industry on its collective ea an led to (as wel as led, perio) its socalled Golden Age, that makes the Major” ashe’ often been familiarly referred fo, an even more important legend in the history ofthe medium. Until now, though, precious little has been written about him that lida emanate ulimately ether from his ealy (and respectful) atts «employee Creig Fessel—or from those who leaned the “facts” directly oF indirectly from the men who in 38 forced the Major out ofthe company he had founded, ‘And it turns out, according tothe Whedler-Nicholson fanny, that much of what we "knew" sbout im is flat-out wrong... of tthe very Teast, hotly disputed Tor if interviewerfassocat editor Jim Amash could ask the Major bimselfat this late date about the facts ofthe case, he could do what s ‘often the next-best thing: he spake with no fewer than three members of his immediate foil, ncluding his son and two grandchildren. In addition, one ofthe latter interviewed the Majors daughter for us, so that ‘we have first-hand accounts by no less than two ofhis five children Besides that, one of the Major's randkids condacted final interview with CreigFlssl, not long before that coloefl artist left us ast year at theage of 96, These ate folks who have made a special effort, especially over the past few years to thoroughly esearch the Major’ life and work and surviving documents (such as they arc), with the purpose of correcting the historical record and dispelling what the family fee are myths that have grown up around him, When ture histories of DC comics—or indeed, of the field as 3 winole—are written, they will need to take into account what follows over the next 56 pages, if they tobe taken seriously Alter Ego is both proud and grateful that, through the good efforts of Jim Amash (as well 5 film producer and one-time comics writer Michael Uslan}, we were invited tobe the ones to first put the Wheeler-Nicholson family’ side ofthe story onthe public econ ‘And may we immodestly add that story also makes a damn good read! Bestest, PS. Our apologies to Jeff Jaworski for our accidentally crediting another ‘with providing ws withthe splendid Rik Veitch ilo we used as last issue's “Marvekman/Miracleman cover COMING IN OCTOBER SPEND A HAPPY HALLOWEEN WI 1950s HARVEY seen ean EY HORROR COMICS! SIMON & KIRBY’s Stuntman presents the nefarious art of HOWARD NOSTRAND-in a haunting “brand-new 1950s” Harvey composite cover! HARVEY COMICS Horror of the Fear-Fraught.’50s! Never-before-printed interviews with terror artists HOWARD NOSTRAND & WARREN KREMER & elditch editor SID JACOBSON, conducted by Squa Tronts JOHN BENSON! Plus the awe-tll (but sure not awful) art of BOB POWELL, LEE ELIAS, AL AVISON, DICK AYERS, SID CHECK, MANNY STALLMAN, JOHN GIUNTA, JACK SPARLING, JOE CERTA, JOHN BELFI, RUDY PALAIS, & others! 1950s Harvey artist KEN SELIG, interviewed by JIM AMASH! Plus: FCA with MARC SWAYZE, BILL FUGATE, & “The Half-Life and Times of ‘Mr. Atomn’—MICHAEL T, GILBERT on that 1950s comic book cutup (literally) DDR. FREDRIC WERTHAMBILL SCHELLY (at las) presents MARVIN GILES on the 1960s Detroit Tiple Fan Fairs—& MORE! Edited by ROY THOMAS SUBSCRIBE NOW! Twelve Issues in the US: $88 Standard, $120 First Class (Canada: $140, Elsewhere: $210 Surface, $230 Airmail, NOTE: IF YOU PREFER A SIX-ISSUE SUB, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF! ee erage nek ): -TwoMorrows. Celebrating The Ari & History Of Comics 222 ~) TWwoMorows «10407 Bedfordow Dive «Raleigh, NC 27614 USA » $19-449:0344 «FAK: 919-449-0527» Ems tomerrow@aolcon“A Real Iconic, Quintessential American Figure” CHRISTINA BLAKENEY Introduces Us To The Wondrous World Of MAJOR MALCOLM WHEELER-NICHOLSON Interview Conducted by Jim Amash Transcribed by Brian K. Moris NTERVIEWER'S INTRO: Major Matic Wer Nicolo i - - often thought of by comic book historians as {he est tno and est tonderstood of the several Satis of the modern comic kook Wehavehroven Sat he Sven the Ute Sits Army, rote pulp stories, and failed at syndicating newspaper Stipecant though ringed 3s the founder of DC Comics (originally known as National ‘lied Pubtcation), he's est remembered for osing the company right before the initial Cheats of Superman (whee fos resus ws that of the company thet published his exploits}. The only other certain tt ht hc that he ed In relative obscurity (with a universally accepted 1968 ceath titewhihwe wow boro be Incret) As ong th tts quo ‘Sed, he Major try rmiaeo ‘woefully gaping hole t conics’ rt Thankfully happily and not a moment too soon by our lights, this frig onus as eet end Several members of the Wheeler- Nicholson family have finally gone ered tl wr abou de Naor Sore eee 3 NEW comb srurs © itenari « nao that have cloaked his life and. STORIES + ADVENTURE + MYSI SSRORTS »: death, the circumstances = fo ae ‘ranch he publ Caton bof Spero in Stn Com 1998 and the wresting of the company. _from founder Wheeler ‘etl hands The frst of my thro inter lows Ui with the Major grand doughter Cheistina Blakeney — followed by one with his son : Douglas Wheeler Nicholson, . f ‘hen with Nicky Brown, the daughter of Malcolm Whoeler-Nichotson, i it Afer that comes Nickys own talk with Antoinette Wheeler- keys ta man Nicholson (‘wot Tom) the Majors daughter... ond we wind up‘ _hvisina iene Invoduces Us The Won Word Of Map akon Wheeler Nihon wit an stove concerning the Major conducted by Douglas on Tam Wheeler Nicholson with early comics artist Greig Flesse. Many ‘thoaks fo Michael Use, wh pointed Nicky in dnecton at te 2008, San Diego Comic Co, where he Major was being postural fand sary deseray) honored My appreciative thanks fo Cstina, Dovgias Antointte. ton, and especialy Ncky—whe heed coordinate ase ‘nterviens-for thes time snd willingness share Scr aay sory dnd Major Malelme Wheeler Nichason stony os they hve Ron and lived # Now, you wi fo. And hen youFe done here, jon cam deck ou the fara webtehitpsmajormalcolmhedecnicholson.com isn Arash, “The Smell Of Burnt Toast And Vinegar” JIM AMASHL So wen were pou bor? CHRISTINA BLAKENEY: 1919 JA: [chuckles| Now the question f shoul fave ashe you fist BLAKENEY: What’ my rationship with hi? He was my grandfather |My mother Marianne was his sesond oldest daughter. The oldest was my ast Ton, Antotnete TA: What ave your eaviest memories of im? BLAKENEY: Going o st my grandparerts on Long Island in vatous places. Gosh, there were a couple of diferent ones, One [memory] ws Just sort-of the impression of thetrhome ful of books fil of sort-of remaining mementos from my grandmother's European ie Jas Did he havea nce Minary i his hone? BLAKENEY: Ives prety litle, buts Fred, theze was puppy. NE ASR SaaS? oe supe Re Cm Ria) ered pervert eae Ou eat oT a ee eer eae oer Cees wt ares alwaysan abundance of books, There was always a big enphsels on litertuze, reading, conversitlon, ay sort ‘of intecal pursuit. Thece wes augeeegard for thet always with my grandparents Another relly prevating ‘hing that [alwys will associate with him isthe sinell of but toast and vinegar, because [don't know If you're heard thie story from Nichy or anplody ele VAs Thavent heard a single sory, Youte the frst one Tm sserviewng, Is BLAKENEY: Olay My grandfather wosld makes breaks with coffe. Te specie wey he made oxfee hha egeshel into that the grounds would se the topo sil to the boion oe whatever. Em nota big cetfee penn. The ther thing tha he always made foe Isat was poached eggs on toast, and there was lays ‘vinegar inthe water that he peached the eggs Ad he Ineztablybamed the tos [laughs] My wey song recllston Is thatdtneve self barat toa, and seeing him szape off the burt ea. Te was 0 consistent abot Ei JA: So he would mae you breakfast BLAKENEY: No [don't remember him making t for ‘ma, 1s just hat I vemeraber hime making i Tht was has breeifat, What else do [remember? He-was very lagant, not verbose—sort-of metsuredthougat, very appreciative and affectionate to his renddaughters “Nick And Squeegee” JA: Then he was not the pe of grandithor who ‘would bowece you on fis nes tke some grandfathers do with ita had? BLAKENEY: Min, maybe put one on ons nee ard tell a story or Titer. [dont remember a bouncing clement to things. He often smoked a pipe or hada pipe Inhis mouth or inthe vicinity, [remember sting on his Iknee. and [remember him being ery intrigued and spprectative of his daughters litle girl ets putt that ‘Way. So [Just remember lot of admiretion and atfction JAs Do yeu remernber what Kind of stoves hell ol jon! BLAKENEY: No. vemezsber certain letters Laave cotaining certain stories That he would wre 6 my eeeNick & Squeegee ee eee ong ond, Than to Nicky Js eel res ‘mother and hw lbings about funny sovt-of characters. E was aay of ‘giving them aesson in manners somehow. There was one called “The {Goops” “They lick thee fingers, the Goops they ck thet nies, Oh, ‘they ead tevrble Ives” Iwas about deportment and abou! behaving ‘themselves. And there were these funny Ite, almost Swedish fairytales ‘with elf ke dguses tate would waite about, and I thusk actual drew. VAs dicat veatze he did amp drawing aa BLAKENEY: Well think maybe t yas something that was already draw, and he put the names to thees. That ws probably more Ilkely VAs You sald he wos nol verbose. Was he sy? BLAKENEY: No, there was lvays conversation, but he was a Santa Claus figure if you know what mean. In 3 group of his peers, he probably was ‘hele of the partyat times Bathe had a mun foe his money with my grandmother, who was very. very Lleresting character, ad very atc late, VAs Did he spend time with you on birhdays or holideys? BLAKENEY: No, because our whole family was not structured like that. ‘we were there, ten he would be attentive Bar there was nothing Norman Rocloyelian about that scene, for sue. He was an inventor, Well his one invention that [remember him working on was 2 compressor pus for dong things ike painting houses. 1 guess i was for spe painting. He-had one coon in this one apaetzent set up av alab where he was conducting these experiments. [emember everything being sort-of white and draped, and he was perfecting this tnvemon, which 2 rather unfortunate that he didnt havea pte! 7, Decanse ts something thats vy mich used now, _My biggest recollections were about is mlitry background, because ‘hese were photographs of hin in-aniform. My Uncle Douglss was sso a big horseman, so theve was an equesten connecton...plo and that sort of thing. JA: Did ansone ever eal him “The Major?” BLAKENEY: Probably because [dori remember him ever being aeddresed as “Malcolm: “Malco? was aivays ay usce, wot my grand ‘éaher My grandfather was called Nick” and tha’s what I called hin. T didst call him *Grandp" “Squeepee’ was my grandmother’ niclname. ‘You know whit a squesgee is? Jas Vas. Is here a story behind that? BLAKENEY: Yeah, Do you keow anything about my grandmother? Jas Almost nothing BLAKENEY: Okay. She come from a very good house in Stocthoim. She ‘vas Swedish and was one ofthe fet women to be ebucated ata ‘universiy at Uppsala, bella, in Sweden. She was very refined very caltured, ery berutiul, and coud not oll an eget stve her Me. She wes probably the worst cookin the whole wide world. muta chucking] 1 remember hearing Ehese tecube stores shout this food that may smother and er ablings had toca Chat was just zeally vo aw], and every ‘egetable being cooked within an ich of ts i, Ms just that E dont Unk any of hee domesticelils were in any way formed, becanse she grew up ‘with servants. Then [thik somebody got her one of those te squeegees ocean the windows, Fguess she eealytookcto stand, ae real, got thst ilckname, Thats why my grandparents were referred to as "Nick and Squeeses” “A Very Different Kind Of Family” TA: Did he have a tary bearing about hin? BLAKENEY: Oh, yes, Completely: Very eect posture, very physically possessed. JA: Whes he was valaxed, woul he be aferent? BLAKENEY: No, Jas Vou were about 28 when he dled, Di you ever go fo Kim forex advice? BLAKENEY: No, The older Igo, the less time I spent with hin, [sae Jnl whets my mother ook us to Neve Yor forthe summer, We would spend tie thee in a rented house oo Long [sland or someplace. That was shevuue [spent with him, primarily When I get oder, we dda do that anymore JA: Wht ws your mother relationship sith the Mafor ke? BLAKENEY: Think se was very deer to hin, My mother wes relly sweet person. Tee were alot of ther family members who were lot snore high-profile, Aut Ton was stunner There ae aot of farge personalities n my fui and ny mother did not have that kind of personality bur she had other rats ha [thc were wery dea to him, I Fememnber his eters fo er that Ive read, ebionsy as an adall and everthing Fee read [realed hs} admiration for her children, and her lit [The eters were] very loving Ii sy theyhada cell nce relationship.eens acetone eee pene emery Sore reer cea ree a eee rey cee rl is Did our motor have any tats fom either parent? BLAKENEY: Thaté an interesting question. My nother bad amazing ste and having prown up in this really doit know, have you read alot of Naccy Midiords books? Wel, jus as far as eccentric fails are concerned, avery SPP ifeent ind nf fanll: There was alvays aot of iielletual conver sation 2 ot of intellect4a) challenging alot of no stressing of ‘conventional avenues a far as Khel Bids getting a good eduction, oF ‘commerce or anyihing practical at a. Maybe there was not very much food om the tab, but there would be candles, and cocktail hou My grandmother aways had a cigarette holder ‘There wes aways this great sent of sile shout things, even of GEESE fp there was no money and {think ny ‘cimsiacet PP grother got that, defintely think there was a very Furopeat ninence that prevaled in my mothers upbringing that she also passed on to re, acral i So the tal as gnc serious? Net much Ruger? INT APA J BLAKENEY: 03, rihin eamge ollar amount of laughtex. There was a lot of why exchange Thin tha spr of srthehunor spect. Myunde Malo — Ni fathers one ofthe sbemorate wi oal ie (And sant Ton was pity dan good, 0 tal Inger] So there was ae of Banter a humor wis Tage yr of YsSe even when you gt etl ero Ie io, 12, 1-—usl dtl to iol hat much hed ‘BLAKENEY: No. [think things sifted when my parents got divosced, and [cat even tel you the year 50 those tips back Hast were curtaled, TAs Wer he a grandkids should be seem and not heer too often” grondfether? BLAKENEY: No, my instinct is that he would have really enjoyed obseving our progress. 1 ‘thine would have been very intrested in what ‘we had to JA: Would you deseribe im as on intltectualy furieus person? BLAKENEY: Coinpletely, as was my grandiaother ‘The whole family was, actually"iol cong Qintessetl Amaia Figure 1 Wien sg of Ey ar. Variety) “ISSUED WEEKLY) WOP vaked Steel 4 Niessen” Nicholson. Red ‘Twilight Story est Harl Vincene| we satu Ci ees Faxon ey aes ya ee Se ea een ieee ee eee Peete eres oceryr i ene eetir ee eer cater VAs doesrt sound te they had a fet of money. BLAKENEY: [was fas or famine, My mother grow wp in chatesu ontside Paris, ad in an apartment in Pais. Then they had a house in GGrurmercy Pat, and then Long land, too. Then there were periods ‘iter they were impoverished during the Depeesion JA: The Depression wos tough en everbushs, with 0 25% unemployment rae ol times. BLAKENEY: Yes exact [ink that [ould have to sy tet there was nots great, realistic connection to things monetary and commercial, He ‘was not at astute businessnat by any siete ofthe inagiation, Jas But he sounds ike a very decent mon, BLAKENEY: Yes, very, very unuch so, He was really remarcble JA: When did you find ou abou what he had some a fr as the come books wore concerned? BLAKENEY: Probcbly when Twas ateenger JA: Who told you about te SWORD FOR HIRE 4 Maicoum WHEELER NICHOLSON eerie BLAKENEY: My mother, (It vas port of the] faunily lore that started fom ny mother and Uncle Douglas. JA: Was tis often discussed? BLAKENEY: After certain pont, ys, it was, and t wae alivaye discussed ln the cootext of whats shame he didn't ge the acknowledament that he should have gotten. So theze was a dente, IUnnle shift from say perception of hie miltry background to the comic book suf, and that probably haypened when [owas teenager. JA: Do you have any thovghts on his legacy at this polnt? BLAKENEY: I hink 1's somehow related to something you had _menfioned, because [hin my grandfather wes areal icone, quinter- sentlal American gute in is mitary exploits. The books that he wrote; ‘he spit of denture the Eumpean exploit and pues of my geand other, [mean it was high vomancs, high adventure, hig living kind-of Ammesican—not swashbuckler, but you know what [mean Thee were ¢ Jot of argr-than-ifeassactetons With hin. JA: He wrote about myths and, in a certain way, he’ become & mythic Psd BLAKENEY: Yes, ad [think that he conducted hls dein ‘that wey, also. [thinche embodied what he wrote or wrote ‘what he embodied, to pu another wayLAME h i The greatest father-and-son if | superhero team in the history of comics are hack in the pages of CHAMPIONS! The electrifyingevent ‘twant to miss! I comic book retailer issues, for $5.00 each, postage paid, from HEROIC PUBLISHING 6433 THIS MONTH: HERO EC » i penne RSE a ooce Ors)mem die eee KO y Who Founded DC Comics Part II “His Goal Was The Graphic Novel” DOUGLAS WHEELER-NICHOLSON, Son Of The Major, Reveals Startling Facts About The Early Days Of DC— And Superman! Interview Conducted by Jim Amash Transcribed by Brian K Moris. “'m Uncomfortable Calling Him ‘The Major” JIM AMASHL Do you have a bith date forthe Major? DOUGLAS WHEELER NICHOISON: famsry sth, 1890, TAs T wnderstand he 2 born in Frat Tones, WHEELER NICHOLSON: “Thats cores Let ine explain something fest. im uncom: fortahlecalng him "The Meso slthough everyone does Ireier to him es “The old man” [om Jugs} Not besase he was an old aman when [kewl bur san ‘ld Army tern that refers to the commanding offer. $0 youl get agrizled old sergeant taking to a 1-year old lewtenant, cling the Ieatenant ‘the old mn” VAs Bine Before [ask abot fs sank career, cid people cll hime “tie Majer"? WHEELER NICHOLSON: f wis cethee Nice” ot “the Mejoc" Mother and clos friends called him “Nick” 643 ‘Nicholson’ never head anjone cal him "Meleolm” VAs According to your website, his grandfather was Dr. Christopher ‘was very strong, very intelligent, and had kind-of hess, ¢ Massachusetts born ‘termons grip on accuracy and information, His father’ inst name was “eyo sd uo Stain, When he died in 1894, jut ater the birth of a seoond son— ‘Malcolms brother—she spt and mnoved to New York, got into journalism, WHEELER NICHOLSON; And als the founder ofthe frst newspaper and then was ofeved a job starting 2 magazine on the West Coast for {in Jonesborough, Tennesse, whichis il extant, amazing “women, 9 she moved out there. She changed hee last name to "Strshaan” ‘ish isa elated nae It comes cn he sane source, but hs al Jas The Herald and Tribune. What do you know about his grand- ‘name was “Strain.” Later on, when she met T].B. Nicholson on the Coast paren? td they decided to sary se tok her aiden ame Whee pan ated WHEELER-NICHOLSON; ust wa inthe od sories.Chrstophee_APDEME 0S, Nicheon, which expan the hyperedmase par a tines ee cee ma oy "Tha yond base pena oma eso cee er ett ereaceotar eee ‘ATA wooed spt nome su ee Si towards jouncalism, woting. and sofort, and that ha heavily wit the ‘ld man’s mother She lsobeceme a journals, and le him into that WHEELER-NICHOLSON; Well, ofcourse, he was British, and she was fd sort-of faye British. Tati o sy hee fuilywas fos Virginia and she VAs And the fol a come point, moved tothe Pacific Nerthwest? sree ery sonst Css [WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Yes shat a strange pact of his history The ‘old man’s mother, Artoinete Wheeler was a really weird old bird. She WHEELERNICHOLSON: No, [dort Were due out there actually to JA: Do-you remember the name ofthe womenis magazine?» eels Nido, Son OF The oss Satis Facts About The of opens we ‘met with the Staham fay and to ceally dig iio that pact of our researc, VAs How masy children did they hove? Theres the Major— WHEELER NICHOLSON; And the brother Chustopher—they called hhim Ceit—who was four years younger than my father Their name, when ‘hey fst wert out there, Was “Stra” so the old man was bors with ‘hal name, He also had 2 sister, but I den’ now her name, She died the same year that the fither died, 1894 in Tennessee TAs When they moved t Portland Onegon, what do you kuow about ‘thei fancied circumstances? WHEELER NICHOLSON: She ws doing quite wel. She was jours, and shelnad this magazine. She was heavily involved with politics, and they had a horse farm, They raised Arebians and thoroughbreds and ‘rained them, then sold them: bought and sold, and so forth. And when my Gather was going to school, he aso worked forthe local newspaper— [probably local news stu No letion that we know of He was 12,14 years old and ne was already beeaking aed traning horses, “They Were Intellectuals” VAs At the website, Sheet mention of how the house was fled with ‘eoks, onda constant stam of visitors. What do yeu knew about that? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Only what weve learned from him io terms of| tedking shout his background. We know Anvoinette Wheder was in cote spondence with and Knew Rudyard Kipling, ss ell a Teddy Roosevelt, snd other people wie pissed through Portland, She was one ofthe people you saw when you went to Poriland, Soa uch ome ne rh, (oe danger for ies pene? Pe oe rr Rare nanan en ene te fears et conrriens Ja: Undoubtedly; he would have met them, 100 WHEELER NICHOLSON: 05, yes! JA: Whot do you semembur him s2yg abou those earl years? WHEELER-NICHOLSON; He loved the fe out thece. It wa all outdoors, Ut was all = wexy intellectually fermenting le in the home, and contrasted ‘with the incredible owtdoor ie of running a farm. Uhave pictures of him ting whest wth enuge scythe, age 22 or 22. They were growing snd cing their own wheat for the horses, Jas m ficinated ty the fact thot you have o picture of him as young ma on the farm, holding a soythe, People dit take many pictures back than, Would you sap they were mide clas, ghar mate case? WHEELER NICHOLSON: That's 2 tough one. [you wane toate by pretension [id say “aristocracy.” That was where Anioincite Wheeler save ‘herselé But they wetenit part of the conventional middleclass, They were Iniellectuals, with this journalign and ramring¢ farm end a howe farm, ‘which put them sightiyup So it didnt put thez ito proper categors. ‘Monetarily Tsould sy they had a modest living JA Did he dra on play any music? [WHEELER NICHOLSON: No, head no talent for daiing. JA: Do-you knovw shat made him decide to pursue a mibtary career? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: He epparentiy always had an interest, which ‘vas, oddly, ate bi counter to tae family’ inelecal pars, An Intellectual fe and tein the military dont necessarily go together. OF course, what he chosen the vilary wis the Cavalry, which elected his Iifleng werldng with horses.Ths Ave there cy snterestng lores about his cildood that he told yo WHEELER NICHOLSON; Ose ofthe amusing ones was tht the mother came fron tae Fat Coat, and the horsemanship thee was all English Saddle, When they rode to school, the local young Western riders would sicker and sty, “Look tthe Englishmen “ing their seaddles? [mutual laughter] as they were porting propery I don't remember specific comet ‘ations. [just member aspect atitude of his loving the ie they lived there. You no, he and is brother actully istduced TLB. Nichols to their mother, He was their choolmaster.. an Engish stoclBvokse who decided to conse over tnd se the United Stes, eve around. He worked jobs end then [becuse teacher. The young men, beng wot fer, ‘Hloced him, They dragged him home and thereby same romance. My father aay spol of hz sis ithe, ad ever in ofc tings be ‘would sayM father wae foes London I Jor Sno wht he stony ‘wth etal fer but apparety she had no neces neti hls ratondhg, iniectuay though snemory, or any other way. [She totally] canceled tot. The research ve done o tha ely down there, ls a peste respect til. so I dost know [wl the exo nation). IAs Yet the Major was a outdoors type and «literary type, That @ roti inerosting contrast. WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, solely both of those things. He vent tomsiltay school He was two yens, wetking as 3 journals, and then hnad to make up that tine. He did four yeas two, and was not ony at ‘he top of hie dass, he was ceptin of the palo team, he wes just about everything. Inerestingy [went tothe same school, Manlius Muitary Academy, 30-edd years later. [wet ther in 1945, and ne was there in 1909, My brother Malcolm went Tae year befove me. Tas tecibe cadet, boat L enjoyed. JA Wie he stil remembered when you went? WHEELER NICHOLSON: [didnt see any plagues or anything, tut Malcolm had picked up some isinmmation about him. We iniend to go back there and dig ino this. Ws sill schools secular privat schoo). Bs not DST! eerie eter es eet Lacon maeg ents suet eel bli Goa as The CaphicNoat u military They've get boxes and boxes of [material rating to all those years, and they've sid, “Come aad spend whatever time you wast.” Was A Lone Voice Crying Out” JA: So by 1917, he becomes one ofthe youngest majors tthe cevaly. [WHEELER NICHOLSON; Ad ts strange, because bear in antnd that his ‘whee peoblen withthe Arimy then was the issue of time in grade bringing you ahead, rather than a meritocracy. Hed managed to overcome ‘that personally and he sl sod it was lousy syste because most people Aidt overcome t TAT oow i fed to his problems ler bud veel do shis obi of atime. T ‘was interested tn the fact he was chasing Pancho Vala ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: Pancho Vila came across the border and attacked an American town, snd really tte t, Vile suifezed com wht, ‘ae believed vas an injustice and nay well ave been, for al now — and st was Columbus, Texas that he toce apart, That was in 1916, and Jobs J. Pershing—Isterthe [US] Chief of Safin the Rest Would War— ‘was sent down there take him out, They went into whet they called “Che puntlve wat” and several Cavalry units—not onl the old aes but several others—were sent down thete te chase Pancho Vila across the order [twas one ofthe frst forays forthe Wodld War Il General Ption ln that war They hada tough time, and realy dist do teres well Pancho Vila got away becanse he knew the teretony alot tte than they Aid, bt it ws aa incredible experience for my father, Jae Did he ever have any comments about that experience or about “Black jack” Pershing or Patton? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: Ife didi know Patton at all, He ceetainly ‘knew Pershing, because he wozked with him, Ke thought Pershing was 8 reat general. Afr tha, they wect over io the Phiiopines under Pershing, a wel just before they all decamped for Woekd War [ You realize we did get into the World War until 1947. In the Pnllppines, ‘dey were fling Ue Muslin Moco the same ttbes causing all he troubles ight now, M-odd years ater ‘The same groups and the same fight. The It inthe Philippines was vecy much modeled on the British Any. They were playing pols and having this ‘wonderful thing with Phispine seperias and balls and dances and then going on into the ungles, which was horrible. Lasein, teas mst hot and revoting and very, ‘very tough duty fighting these Moros, He based quite a fw comic book stories on thse incidents, JA That would explain why he Ukad adventure books so much, because he was living adventures, WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, cbsalutely JA By 1917, het tn Siberia ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: 1 wert ever with Pesshing to urope, then he was assigned to & Cossack troop, and he wos In charge ofan American mounted aller. Bven though he was from the Cavalry, the artillery in those days ‘were also mounted, but they didnt have anyining ese. Cars ere just coming in, And he had both sn American atilery unit (t wasnt a division, because it didet have the ‘oece) and e Cossack troop. Feo there, he started to do Aiplomatic work and was assigned tothe Japanese generals staf befone he came bac to Barope. So he was both it combat with Cossack tengpe and aztdlery in Shes, fighting ‘he revolutionaries, the Communsts, and then assigned to Aiplomati duty withthe apanese. All ef this me, he was anDougs Wook Nios, Sn Of The Mar, Saves Stating Fats tout Th Ey Days OF BCA spina Se ae sid student of warfice. He [studied] his books of war tact, and he compared what he was sexing with what he was finding ‘rom the Japanese ‘When he came back from Burope he was assigned fist to London—vworking withthe Bish Acmny—then assigned sith Frosch Army, and then as commacaing officer of te cavalry on ‘he Rhine—with Gezasns, ad al of the tine, studying ese diferent annies and oxmparing them with our own, and more and moce geting to [believe we didit know wiht it ell we ‘were doing. And Tie started to Joo ito the history thre, Not tn ‘is history but the history, and he was absolutely eight, I was jst deplorable. We murdeved young men by theowing ther into bath, not having aclu what we were doing. Tat has now become known bat at the time, his was lone woe crying ov, “Hey, cveeybody! Elo! JAsIt seemed ik, for a mujer, ead quite obit of contacts with people Dif he ver write about tis sta? Are there letters that ke wre or ares? [WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yech, he did wee. We dont have alot ofthat lef unfortunately. Nobody over the years took a great inte int and he never realy talked fot about tie was a grett racontew. Atay social station, within ve misutes, people would be sting thee, open sooulhed, Istening io hiss. He kept conversations golng, Bute dda tale a grea length about "Hees whale was Ie wath the Bish Army” He faked ther polo teams because thei straps were tno shor, and they ‘wore easly bounced out of thet sales, The Americans were polited out 2s being cough players. He was saying, "Chest, lenge your seups, JAsDo you think he hal ony deste to be 0 generat? WHEELER NICHOLSON: | think origislly, but towards the end, atl sort-of come to the conclusion that he mot going io win this battle, and he begining to lose interest in the military. He doesnt see himself staying, and either ving with condions he couidst sand or having 3 ral chance at changing tem. He begun to thnk, "Maybe I ought to be Trmean, his eter to President Harding which wis a diet inition a court nactial— ied been wesing to ls own supezlors,andto the Anay High Commend and so fbeth trying to go through the regular channels and geting nowhere in fact, getting move and more antagonism, because pert of the rear he was advanced so early on was that he was always coming up with new tactics aad new stateges, which the High Command loved, nr waa unas THE HIGH TH RIDER OF THE COLDEN MARE nition “They sald, "My God, bes so bright and bean? But then, whet: he started attacking thes, stping the whole system is realy wrong, they ‘became signiictnly less enchanted, and not only dit Hsten to irs, but ‘tied te shut am up. His ot reputation began o suffer And he was othingif set stubborn, [fhe wanted to go after something, he just stayed on 2, Nothing would deter ix, VAs The eter wire he ortcied the Army’ command chat — WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Well, he had «bunch of ritlctoms. The ‘ralning, the business of advancement theough time and grade rather ‘han amertoctey.. thee ws a whole sty of problems that e ound with the ‘Amy The public announcements in The New Vink Times and so forth sort of setied on one or two, but he hed very thought reasons wy ‘hinge should be chung. He sid, "We must change, We have bees sending people ino bale unpeepared, and we cant do this? He knew he ‘was heading for a couc-mactial, and he knew that 2 court-martial ist the same as belng thrown out ofthe Army or cashiered: means hed gota slap on the wrist. They say, "Nou shoul have done that” but what Inappens with xis your chances of advancement became nd. What Dep dd was to set him back to wht they called "51 fle” whichis time and «grade, the things that would le him get advancement: and, ns eer, ‘ends his career So he’ stl in the Avmy. and he has his nk, but he would not ever be promoted, and he knew that, He took that chance, and when ‘hey did whit they did, he fought them with thst He said, “Okay” and then he retred, Stone point, he was teaveng while his court-martial was going on, bbetwaen Boston and is postin Fort Dix, New Jesey. Mother was in Boston—she had been il He came hack fran thee late one night and could gt int the barrscks. He started fo go isto one ofthe window, snd gused shot him fom upstatis, The Army had beer: tying to shut him up, becarse by this ime Congreas had goer hold of ao! hisrepors and wes sing questions "What fit his guy saying? What do you mean the Aeny Isso swf? What should we be doing” and sofort and so on. Aud the Army was saying, “For God stke Major. shut upl Sp ” But the fuss had ready stared, nd they cols op Being shot at was so cleaely an attempted assassination to shat him up (Guacds dost iin upstairs windows. Yeu dost shoot a person hee saying "Who goes there?” dusing peacetime, Maybe inthe middle ofthe ‘war but cersiny non the baercks. So it was tabbed thet wey by his fends in the mtay, but he miraculously suevived, The ballet west "ight into is texple—you could see the sar the rest of his ie—casne down behind his ear, making him dea in that ear, and ceme out his spine, And he was avale wise he ay there; he got no help for over two ours ‘He had his hand over is temple with the Hood coming out, and they finally came and put him into a hospial VAs We this incident ever imetigated? WHEELER-NICHOLSON; The rumors came out that i Was an attempted ‘esisisiion, butt was just hushed up. When le recovered which ‘wasnt very long because amazingly litle damage [was done]—he was back fighting the court-martial. Fie was slapped on te wrist, and he suid, “Oly, thank you wery much? and he retired in 1923, In 1922. he was conwisted of violating an Article of War in publishing hsletter in The [New York Times. In 24 he sted Genenl Stden— ‘ito was the commanding offer in Europe, wo by that time had become ‘he ead of West Point for defamation. Sladen had been his geat ‘supporter when he was in Eumpe. ‘And then, when Siaden, among others, ‘tied to shu ham up and he would shit up Sladen stcied his defamation, VAs Bie mothar publicly lobbied on hie behalf during his mildary problems. ‘So she must have had some kind of clout to have been able to be heard WHEELER NICHOLSON: She new ‘Teddy Roosevel and was close to Roosevelt ser, who also championed the old man on his path, She wrote to Harding and the Roosevet family, so she nad entrée, “He Was Involved With World Affairs In His Head All Of His Life” Ms How much writing did he do while he wos in the service? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON; Other than his writing his varlous eters and his book Modern Caoiny, he did ‘wee any fiction that [know of. VAs He wer merrled i Pass 1920, WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, he met Mother [Hs Bjcbom] in Pars ‘She was down thece with her sister from Stockcaolm. She was theze to study patting, and her sister was ‘thereto study language. They were cee te pares: Penge ibe ieeepereues Pepeern etre rin ere Goa as The CaphicNoat 8 Doth young aristocrats. Mosher spol four languages tently, and her sister spoke seven. Mother was reputedly the most besuifal wom in Stocktalen. She wae Swedish by bir, ‘They had a eather lengthy courtship, over a year and all ove Pars and Europe fewis unbellevhlytomants, this young Cavalry oficer and this ‘beau Swedish lady ging tothe ball and living ix postvat Pati, ‘which was relly the place to be, They marsed in 1920 ina wecy fancy Army Cavalry wedding in Germany. and had fhelr honeymoon in Stockholen, where he met his new eestves. Apteineite was born in Stockholm in 1922. [n22, the second Aagter, Marianne, wes bor, and in '27, ny brother Malcoin was born. [n'26, [was bors and in'22, Diane was bor. JA: Whot kind of pareats wore your porants? WHEELER NICHOLSON: The Swedes ace the mos foemsl people inthe ‘wetld thats, betoze they have the third Vodka, But Mother, pariculaey, ‘he aristocratic Swedish, was a stieder for manners language, es. You did not end your sentence witha prepestion, Peri. And manners: when we inet older people, wed dick our heels and dightly bow [still do that today. The old man was very fond, and totally distant. He was totally in Iisowa werld. He adored my elder sister Antoinette, and They weve sort fbuddtes. Hed gotten rather close to Maloolm and then finally wth Diane the youngest duughter, Those two were very close. Lhad 3 fdendy, ‘but sorof distant, eaonship with hain, He wasnt a doting parent he dds! take you out and pay bsseall, ‘or anything like tat, He was aivays much too busy He was involved with ‘world affairs in his head al of his ie Ae Then i ose. very proper Frousshold, WHEELER NICHOLSON: That the one ide of. The oer side of as ‘otallybohaian. We did exaty as se pleased. Aslong 25 you wee spealing properly. one sated ‘wets you were defaning the Pope ewer [metal luge] Dinners were age inteletel afar, ven ss younger children, We weet {rough pecinds of being very wealthy and being very 2007, bit thene were lays cade on the table and afl dinnes and Aiscassion shout woe ates We were Iiiened to, and if what we sd didet make sese, we wer tod, Tha stupid” 1 made ence, we were Iiiened fo with eat respect. We were encouraged to speck aad question. The saree we were, the happlerthey were ‘We were part ofthe scene. We \werest encouraged io be pushy or bratty The household was no fhe chlldren taking ver and inter ~upling, s you sees often today We \wete Here on sufferance to add our voice fwe had somethis lteligent {si but not o take over. Iwas an adult time, and we were allowed in as smini-adatis da phemneiiie ny 7009 the respective copyright holders]JAsHow hands-on were yous parents ‘wits regard your personal education? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Disitessngly Ile, as far as schoolwork went, They just assured ements eens ay reece career 1 that's young ee eee Cee eee terrae te ei eee een na eterna eee een wes impending. his whee sady was Lined with maps of what was happening and he read every aricl and listened to every news broadcast, Jas Whar made ham laugh? ‘we would de our work Sometimes we did and sometimes we didn. But we ‘were reading and discussing Shakespeare and the Russian novelists when ‘we were 10,11 yess old. Ed ead War and Pee thee times by Une ime L was 16, The whole houschold was a discasion group, so that we were ll reading this, weld gt an interest in some vein of things hat the old man land Mother would puch us ino, Cm thinking of the Russian writers ptticuay, and then weld al be reading and talking and arguing about Ht Tras ike 2n Oxford seminar to be in the Rouse, so we had Jos ands ofeducation in terms of ioral. But in terms of anyone checking four schoolwork, nebody dd JA: Were your parents afectionate eins cook other? WHEELER NICHOLSON; Very. ‘Very openly, and dest the old man adored Mother and they were very affectionate, Even with alot of ‘he financial troubles which caused straln whenever they occurred. IF ‘we were coming in ite trom a date a at 17 yes old ao inthe itt ‘morning, you'd heae thers in thelr . room talking and chattering and Jauphung aad going os. I was amazing. VAs Did he have any hobbies? WHEELER NICHOLSON: No. In ‘way world iis geopolitical Ihe aff, was hs hobby al ofhis ie, enduring 35°57, 38,45 the comis books were gongand war coer ei GARY COOPER - ne sie Peat iron liebe WHEELER-NICHOLSON Ke had sort-of ¢comy sense of mmox Linea svecy now and Yuen, practical joke wes not ahove him. He iked to Ig, adhe laughed easy As Whot mae ham watheppy? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Discord inthe howe. He was incvedibly Lnnpervious to bid sluations, He suflezed them wih grest good will nothing seemed to really bother him. One ofthe tunes that we were dead brofe—thet would have heen 1937 clectriity was turned off ‘ar lack of finds and therefore the store didnt work, Temember going down to the garage downstatrs bbenesth the house, He was inthe {gage sitting om concrete Boor, ‘with alte fre going, and [bling 8 pot of coffee, He was in his bathrobe, sort of squatting and perfectly sanguine. Physical things dida' distress him, Setbacks he ‘oolethem and soldered on eliked dassical musi but nat om the high end, He sor-of thought cof the Bach variety as “Tweedle-dee” musi, but he loved the Remastcs, ‘the Tehalkowses the 190h-century composers, and opera. He and Mother liked the sme kind of musi. He didn ke pop culture, pattiulariy, Considering that es the Father of Comic Books, ts sort of range to sey, but iste, He Ina very lite interest in [radio ey Le‘hos]. We weve all addicts shows lke The Lone Ranger and The Crees Hornet, He eed ovis, the ealy Lawrence Ollvier fms and that Kind of ‘hing. Mother loved the Fed Astaie/Ginger Rogers Kind of movie; he liked thos, too, But he reall loved The Lives of « Bengal Lancer and that ind ofthing shoving the British Any Sighting IAs If he sav anything in these moves that was historically bneccurete, ‘would ke comment it? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, e did. “Oh, that’ ridicufous. We ‘wouldnt do tha” Heil see people shooting someone with pistol 200 yards away, lke "My God, that woulda have happened.” “He Had Always Desired To Be In Publishing” As Let asouse hs publishing, He sorted 1925 with hs ov newspaper syndicate, Wheeler Nicholeon, Inc, Do-you have say idea of ‘what made him ventiee lato that? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: Only thet he had always dasied t bein publishing and veiting was kind ofa stopgap. wasa way of making some money sole could do what he warted todo, which was get into publshing [He thought] "Wal, ean make money wating. I shoulda bbe problem! So he started weiting pulp stovies, and from that he went dite come, VAs Its edd fora guy who wasn? overly crazy about ition and pop ‘enlture to Be doing thet WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes. mean twas one thing seing the other was produc i which he did enjoy. He enjoyed wating those ‘things, That was not a chove foe him, Ae The strips and short strte: how many of those do you think he ‘wrote hires? WHEELER NICHOLSON: He wrote al ofthe short sores He was very prolife exivemsy. My daughter Nice hes a count of how many things he ‘wrote, and she’ sil finding more. JA: When he started publishing he newspaper strips in the "20s, fe “wrote Ambitious Ambrose and Highway Henry. So he mut have hea something going on to bs able to write a cartoon strip. You just dont go frown bong inthe tary to writing cartoom strips, ‘WHEELER-NICHOLSON; Yes, [guess he did. What school was therefor ‘hal, you kexow? Whoever dit had to ust jump into t, There wasnt a ‘whole lot of history to go by. Nicky has pointed out tha! even his ering ‘was very ninch Ie a comic strip, He sets a scene, and then some dialorne ‘occurs within i, and the’ what his adventure siores ae ike, and that’s ‘what comic strips ae lke. So he was kind-of writing in that form even ‘Wher he was weiing prose VAs He published the fist come strip version of Treasure Island. As for 5 you know, did he identify with that kind of story? WHEELER NICHOLSON; Ob, I dort know. Those books all he Rebect Louis Stevenson and the Fenlmore Cooper bool, were things that head given my brother and me te read as young Mids Think tat, o the degree ‘hal we Zoved them, he used tha as his marketing gauge for what he ‘ould be using as Something to turn into a graph: novel And the {eaphic novel was one of ns goals, Tast was ohice he sit going VAs ts 100 bad he did gor a chance so do it. But is business waits ured, I guess it-vas one ofthe fist ean periods, WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, e snade lots of mocey sting ealy on, ‘When he diverged foom writing to publishing and did both fal-time, he canoe w ASO. SUN, [Se lek he Sis TBS aint aaa eT sate tin Suan One a rome one sae. oY | ELAS SSR ee geen Bare Per ny The Major stipe the adaptation of Robert oui Stevenson’ as reer een Ty epee aor ce ont eth See ‘asst malang money, orignaly, at publishing. We sufered financally as ares JA: Whot Kind of businesoman was ha? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Tercble, Imean tele [te Nicy] The question was, ‘What kind ofa businessman was het [Douglas and Nicky laugh) [guess Tin «worse on, bur Tean' imagine anyone ds being any “worse than he was, JA: Why? Did he just no pay attention? Did he not have the facie? WHEELER NICHOLSON: To some degree he was a belllant ‘businesaman in the sense of deviding what should happen, what kind of ‘things should happen, even hes to do ther, but teeiNe at administrating ‘thera on day-to-day bass, “I'm Going To Be Doing Comic Books” JA: At some point by the "20s, your parents wont nak fo France WHEELER-NICHOLSON: That's eight, He was wring then and dole extremely well, We lived in 3 beautiful bg apartment in Pai in a ovely chetezu out n the country. Twas born here, but we went there just afer T ‘was born, My frst years re realy in France, and [ came bucchere speaking only French [costed on p £8)» els Niko, Son OF The ap, Ress Stating Fats About The“ks Gol Was The Craphie Noa uels Nic, Son OF The ap, Resa Stating Fats About The Here’s the New Magazine You've Wu. tts Qa Been Waiting For! 8 eebbeenbbRee ath Ece ene of [comsinued front p. 35) JA: And then, in 1929, the Stock Market crashed, Did tt wipe him out? WHEELER -NICHOLSON: No, he dnt shave that much money in the matt. B didn affect him initially Immediately, it was nore thatthe market Zor what he was dole dropped teemendously. He was exasperated by this, and sad, "Well, okay, now fm really ping to get into publishing. and he weate ver Jes Ft wasnt tha the [pulp] maziet ‘was that bad, slate as 2948, when the pulp snacket had Jong since died, he published 20, 25 stores that year. Hell gone back to ‘wat afer te demaee of his comic book, ‘business. Bata that point, [The Great Depression}, he made the decision, “Tm going to be doing comic books” Mi Be had to shots at syndicoting nesespaper strips, and he tried again, T uss, around the late "20s, early 303, and ‘gain, id work, Hore muck do yo ‘hank the foture was hs fault othe Deprestions fault ora combination? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: [doa now. suppose it was 2 combination, and perhaps ‘he was learn his game, He was pessient. JA: What do you think fed him to doing comic books? ope WHEELER-NICHOLSON: The belief that It ‘yas an Leite way to realy get culture to ‘the masses, if you lke, tose both words and pictures and to pet the cesses, to aet new writing tothe masses. His goal was the graphic novel, Tha where he wanted it to fp, andthe comic trp, ite was zneans, Fe sarted ov ith the Inmor staf. He ated to switch & over to adventure stores, ike Adventure and Detect Comes. JA: Wher T look af the early Whesler- [Nicholson comic books, the humor features tend to be more filer than anything else. HE looking move for adventure or detec. tives orsericlizing the classics. Bo you tak ad rors faith in doing the sevious stuff ‘ke Treasure Island or Ivanhoe, rather (hao the mor st?Goa as The CaphicNoat iain auton Y| ARGO oh (ON Sils RUERY WEDNESUINY The Baldassare Ruby alain Wheeler Nichoton War Tine Sper { Romancerhy fre Grim Od & The Battle of the Silent Men ay Moles Wher Noon ‘The Vengeance Tiail A Man Noses By Vitor Rosson SP Eas. PF Fins Roticking Nout er ee Soret eres renee rere’ nr Popeanenubetersntretner aye ine rercieg mer reenter ier] ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON; [his the umor stuff was totally a way of breaking in. was not wheve his interest ly, From the beginning, is Inienitons were alled about continually n the house. He explained why thew (publishing), where was going. aid that includes long discus sone on "Supeeman’ bere it ever came oi, Iasi ison, the dream ofthis being a new art fon, That was rttersted many diferent ways. ere es carer WHEELER NICHOLSON: [knew Cook, He was sort-of portly s roundish face, grayish hae, spaise. [may have known the other guy, T don't remember hm, though. JA Was this your father’ compan ‘ond they were working for him? Or do ‘you Sink they hada pace oft? WHEELER NICHOLSON: To the best of exy knowledge, they did not. 'didst Ihave alot to do with [the other men} During that time, "24°35, he was vetualy living i the cy, ard coming Ino on werkends. We were in Great [Neck as of°24, and twas a terble time. We were so bole, it ss hhocrendous. And often with the dectte ‘out, and no food and what have you, he 1w2t coming home every weekend and Just busting his butt io pul tis together So ar about 35 or 50, ‘Maclin and I started to go [io the office] with him. That kid of olncided ‘with when Whit Ellnsorth snd Vin Sullivan came ito the picture VAs Gook an Mam dt tay with Files very tong. Diy want eff amet sorted Sir own company. Do you happen to know how Sulivan and Elsworth came on board? WHEELER NICHOLSON: No. Both were artists, and they ame tn ust as employees, The old man, I dont think ‘with any sclentifle form, jst std, "Wel, can you work filltime and assist me inthe editing?” [He could have asked] somebody else... Cre Fessel, for eample don’ think there was any megicto t. They happened to be thew al that time, MARCA > VAs Hews th fst comics pubitser to do new material ee one Boconse he seught of a graphic novel n mah the way that we think of them today, do you think that's the reason why he had no intercat in just cong reprints? WHEELER-NICHOLSON: [think theve were several reasons. ‘One is tat he could create she smut himse. He enjoyed doing ‘hal. He could make this happen and not just use someone eset ‘work, which didn intewest him that much. So Fhe was to reech his goal, which was [expanding] « Mooming a orm, he would hnave tobe creating new stu to put in i. He could just reprint ‘uff fou a newspaper VAs And ther het have to pay royale WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, was the money thing, too. You could hire bright young guy of 22 lot cheaper than you could ay royahes to newspapers, JA: New Fun started tn 1935. You would have boon about ‘oven years old, Wher he started this, here were two other poeple involved in Se company noe Bal Cook aad fokit Mokon. perenne eer pomereris) panei es puirarvesyuretin eens eryeels Nico, Son OF The eerie Foal bere eee fe cop fee ite pends ierrnmeere aint perce) Ore tsren are ren} joepeieoenir server i’ Jas Sutioan and Blloworth were bot editing and drawing, andi Eliwortht case, writing too. The early chavacters that your ther _psblised, hw muck writing of those di he do? WHEELER NICHOLSON; A lot, is imprist was net ony is his creating ‘the features and saying, “Let have a character that does ths this, and ‘this piving It to somebody else, but editing what they were doing the wasn, himself welling i A Tt oft, he was actually wring In the 35, 36,97 peviod VAs Then fe diel have to pay a writer a sal [chuckles again] LITTLE LINDA oss Satis Facts About The of ope ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: Well, tas that and eso that’s what he ‘wanted fo say and he wanted this character to do this. JA: Se fe would create weharseter cod write them hei give the sept fo whoever the artist was. Do you think he did any humor writing or as most of detectives and adventure? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: He did very ite humos westing. “Terrible, Tough Times” JA: Crolg esl told me thatthe buliing he remembsred ves on 23th Set, Fourth vem, on the fourth flor. WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Yes thas wha cemembec JA: Atome pot, Hay were also nthe od Holand Hote WHERLER-NICHOLSON: Yes but [ doo! member that JA: And then Crely sald, “We moved uptown tothe old Graybar Building on Lexington Avene” WHEELER-NICHOLSON: That's the coup-de grace. That’ when Hey Donenfeld actully tole ove in a sense, That was a month before "Supermad? came out ox fne Sth 1A: So what you mata sememiber he bull om 28th and Fourth WHEELER NICHOLSON: Tht was 37 and 28, rat. Fourth Avemte, ‘which is Park Aver South row But the butding had other publishes i i aswell JA Thon thet wh he was there, [WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Fm mre you'e right: Doneneld nad an office ‘there on another floor. JA: Doneneld eae dotig some magazines and spe pulps, But all the ‘Major did was comic books He had no ser publishing bases that. WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Not that [know of The particular part of the offices that [remembers one lapis room, maybe 18x20, witha couple of dees and a couple of deawing boezds. One of those desks wes the old _marts so he was in an open aces Ke did't haves private office in my snemory There were doors goung to other paces, to. Jas Ths is what Crs told me: “There was one fy bg-sized voor Bhat ‘we worked In. in Sulisien was in ose corner and Hisworts wat In [eostisued on p24) By Whitney Ellsworth ret eee eee re ne peer nas erent ee mantneeno eerste! ee ats een ee rae ay eee eer st at pene mea seed nieaes eer T neni cata photo siao09 De comies eae Sern ad"ks Goal Was The Craphie Noa “Superman Created By Jerry Siegel & Russell Keaton” Is treally possible thatthe above phrase, rather than one ending, “Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster" might have become the byline on todays “Superman” stares? According to = recent posting on the Newsarama website, at and script have surfaced ta vindicate the longstanding rumors that, circa 1934, sitar Siegel approached other artists bes das Shuster to draw the proposed newspaper strip, afterloe began to lose heart over the prospect of selling it Miastpraminent among. possible alternates wos Russell Keaton, then ghost artist af the Buck Rogers srip (and future artiscreator ofthe aviation stip Fly” Jenny, oF ‘which numerous examples have been seen in Maro Swayze's columns in FFCAY; but Keaton decided in the end not fo become involved, since the tecnage Siagel was then bacically an unknown quantity. ‘According to writer Jeff Trex in the Newsarama piece, the material Siegel and Keaton crested together was rediscovered by the Siegel family in 3007. in cansiste of Sogel® lettar ta Keaton which included twa ‘weeks’ worth af scrips (the first of which i reprinted on this page) and the nino sample dailies which appear on the follwing twa pages. Our thanks to Newsarama [and to Matt Brady) for permission to pick up this material from their website. And thanks to Michael T. Gilbert and Jim ‘Amash for ringing these strips to our attention, (Letter ©2009 Estate of Pooks The dust jacket of Coun Pubeatior moran) Pere ay panies as ere ere ene enp ener ert eri rerrer sre renee or se eee ee ret) er eta Se eeert| Ronen or al eee Ceeeerert2 Dnugas alr ichosn Son CFT Mj, Rack ting Fs bot The a Cs FDS And sxe suPERMaN ay JEROME SIEGEL ie RUSSELL KEATON2 eels Nido, Son OF The [contimeed fom p. 20) ‘nother corner” But he std the Major ai hts ov privete office ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON; [dont cemermher that. I may be, Maybe we ‘were only in the lege room whers he was talking with Vin or Whit? [used to draw, mysel Las « budding artist, Wat was lovely man. He would setme up Wh a drawing boued, and [was ust in hopheawen fares long ‘swe were there. So my memory i of tha args! room with te desks in i and Vin and Whit. [thought the old sans dese was in there, too, but maybe not, VAs It coud be that atone time he had his own office, then cult ‘afford i, and gove it up. Creig remembered shat he used fo bring his on dnaving tabi... and there wes «filing cabinet ad a beat-up old leather couch, Do you ramember that? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, dbsoltey Whi always reminded me, in retrospect, of Dylan Thorns. The round face and curyich hair and a benigh, sweet expression on his face He was avery ice man. Quite & The Vin Sullivan Show De aa teal at Beer etre er iee aetet eerere Entree eden ur tiheanciottr eemgmnvers ta pererinereatarerernit ener ee acd mpnteaeyeei Pesrsnioene ieee Cie te one e e arecabeneue rs ree eens ee eee et oss Satis Facts About The of opens contrast to Vin Sulivan, who ws sardonic—not a word Twould hese applied t that time, thts in retrospect—and kind-of nota vey nse ‘person from the palit of view of cid, At thst pou, Lovas ten yeas old, snd wes clear didnt ee Malonim and me being in the oie, as npposed to Wat, who was very gracious, JA: Since they were eng, was the Major going over the edting with them? ‘WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Yes, When we were there aye that hp remember the old ssa in there—ne would be wocking with them a their desk or drawing boaed er what have you, going ever things. He nad no ‘rouble being very direct and, atte same time, very polite He wast at all high-handed: "Wet the hel is this? Tals stinks” Notaing lice hat ‘ook place, Iwas, “T wonder ie could make this moze ke —” He wee a ‘ery ingraating person, vecy diplomatic in his relationship with them, "Key Tin looking at this and t seems to une maybe ifwe tried t more this ‘way. would werlalite betee” tht kind of language end approach, JA Do-you fea! Btswerth and Sulbvan respected your father? [WHEELER NICHOLSON: Cersily, Whit didn not sue ofa wth Sullivan Last evn when he od mon was talking t his, ite sort of mutex] “Ms, whs sr you bothering me for even as do rnaticas the old man was. JA: Your father did net have a secretary he? WHEELER NICHOLSON: No, not there. He hal «secretary for his ‘ering but not for his work there Anything like that would be farmed oout—during the Depcesion —to other services ther than keqping 2 fll ‘ume person, JA: Was he his own acconntand? [WHEELER NICHOLSON: ct beet, because L dont this he coals two and yo [fim ugh] Tos think he was is 0m accourtat I dow know whe was. Gad knows if there was any being dope stl jack Lisbowtz case int the picture 4: The reason why Tins asking this is that there ae stories about how he would pay peop [WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, and that absolute BS, and Creg put the lie to that, Ceig sid-healvays got pad, but sometizes the old man ean out of money. We al did, and al of us sufered, including him. God knows he sred. [an atest to that. We were many times without -money But tiling people was not is act. Quite the contrary He wanted people tomake money wih hi, she would share whatever he had, and hat was noting JA: Cry told me, ‘Sometimes he Major dus have the money to pay peop cn Sun comin, i sy, TE have a cack for you ment wack?Ba eae me thought your father was 4 dreamer whe didi alwys ave the money to 2 back his dreams. WHEELER NICHOLSON: Thats exactly cocect. Cres dead sight on, “All Those Artists And Writers Knew Each Other” JA: How a yor father dress? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Fe wss ery conservative. You hawe io realize Jun, the, ater the demise of the comic book business, none of us became. involved with Te wes over and done. T only knew comic books like any other 10,11, 12-year-old, buying and eading them. [didnt realy dig tno thet stu and the old mart never Joke back, So we were!t aware ae ‘until we started looking into his history ofa these horrible stoves. And TSI SUE EE eras] | hadany of usbeen aware, wel have done something about corecting the ee ee stores. One of the stories ad him wearing 2 French Army officer’ cape ‘Well, the chances of that happening ae ld my dressing up ik Marlene Dietich, He was very conservative. JA: No Becver at, then? [WHEELER NICHOLSON: No une te neserowned bearer Mewes flo and we hve curse ens ed he et TCoSSGRT | REGEER EEL TETTEeT] | snd beck dom, Now one otro thd he med hed sgt np pees iat Ease ey crest at Ssh ee ‘nome th no sbser hb esha Tn esis eve af the se yh stn oud es ‘etd ok andthe wy ear hee dof JA: Ho tall-was he? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: He was betwen the-eight and ‘lve nine, very average height ten Today, hell be Peres . consdeced shoa eee cad eer eee peenerereendiperana rey weep ante} ne ee en ee err are enn eee en iene ir VA: By this time, these coms, 3 he hy? Ie er tt eres ‘dwn ons po paren en no parecer rare % Rarer nenmian i compen, would you be intrested in my s oo : Gio 2 Caw “He woul sta them” But Creig sa tha, Because he worked inthe office ant he wa in sight every day, Hhat’s why he himeelf got pod. He also sal that sometimes fa process server or if soniebody came, ‘wanting money, your fother would lave the office and go out Se back way. WHEELER NICHOLSON; ['m sue he did. What the hel else was he going todo? Thats peciecy cedibe. Those were terrible, tough tunes, JAs Crelg wont oul of he way to ay that he diet hink your father was dishonest He thought your father just didn't have the money. He made that distinction very clear fo me, bacause he did not Be Hlarry Chester, whe was 2 conc shop packager, and was percsived bp some tobe a ‘crook at fmes, Crely said the Major was not ike tht, He told re he2s eels Nido, Son OF The oss Satis Facts About The of ope Blaze ke jacket with lacs, beutiful cut, and his business ones were three-piece sults, and they were also bemtifilly cut. VAs I vas thinking, since you were kids ond he was doing comics, die ask you ond your brother Malcolm for our ‘opinions on the comic beoks? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Not relly, no sy when you think about it, but xe. Our discussion weer more our questtoning iin, snd his responding and giving us insights as eer] | 8 what he was upto, and why and that sort of thing. JA: Wud you ask about te artis or anrthing? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, and some of them we knew Tin told that inet Siegd and Shuster, have to admit I dont remember JA: Asyour webs there wes commen that Jerry Siege Fuad given youn father she credit for starting their caret. He said, without the Major's hel, they nover would have made into print. ecm are Sas sanaran cn WHEELER NICHOLSON: That a divect quote. He was ware ofall the bad si that Liebowitz and Donenteld fad put out, aided and abeted by Vin Sullivan. He knew that he ‘was eying something that was counter politically nooetec VAs What other arts and writers do you vamomber? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Not telly any of them. Thavea dan memory of Flessel only after he reminded me of whohe ‘was and wht he Jealeed ike, 1A: Since the Moor obvtously couldn't do all te writing, swede rcrul writers ond arte? WHEELER NICHOLSON: I don’ know Al those writers and artists knew each other, and this one would recommend ‘hat one, end that one would [el] someone alse]. They would ‘near about it and come to see iz, ad sa, “Here's my postialio” Ii was the Depression, and they were all msgry. VA: Since your fater had written for the pulps and had hed newspaper contacts bafre, di fs over recut ony ef is old ismas to do any writing for him? WHEELER NICHOLSON: I dex now that did [WHEELER NICHOLSON; He was bore chested, «bit overweight, but nol teal. essentially, Very evect, rerp miter, You woulda have ‘som him vithout tle ora busines sult, Now bear mind this ts few yeaa afer his heyday, when he had money and lis othes wece {sidoad, So many of the clothes left ovee were real first-class clothes, bat ‘then they begacto get taltered. I remember Cog mentioning the ed ‘mas cael hair cou, a tattered raggedy thing, and [rinembe tht. t ‘was probably, at some point in thine, lovey coat. But some stu that he ‘wouldnt wear that continually was perfectly good, Fis informal dress was Reinember, the writing, une the comic thing, was very solo thing. They wrote their sites, not dealing with other ‘wees, ent them to vacious publishes, and they were printed. They were not relly in @cammanity He didnt have ots of interaction with other pulp weters : TA: Bid when you go 1 efices, vou meet people. Perhaps, wen fe was publishing, ls might have contacted a writer Fue might have met ct one ofthe publishing houses [WHEELER NICHOLSON: Not key. think that he was drawing fom the existing pool Jas Crolg Flescel how afar number of covers for your father, Wek ou Jther be active in editing nd discussing whet would be on the overs? Did you see Hat? WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Yes. [reser so many ofthe converst: ‘ons. Sometimes there were covers: sometimes, overwriting, “Well Iisten, “wy don't we do thst Wy dont we change that? Is this 3 possible thing? ‘Whyd we do thie?” on all ofthe tyes of things that were goimgon. At oe‘ume or another, eld bein elect, eting those things, VAs Then fie would help muse the determtnations on ‘wht the covers looked Bke, Weudd he been doll. oriented enough fo go down to approving the very logos ‘ond things? Or would he hove lp that to Suv or Ellsworth ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: [think {heeft that f his editors), Any conceptual Thing... 13 ferare was going cont the slime, he would deintely be involved in that But ater that, he would not look steach isue and soy, ‘Wl, les make ait bit mace this way or that” We Did he determine whet would be the lad feature of a book? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Oh, yes Oh, absolutly! That he wouldst leave to anyose ese, JA: AEC Stogl and Shuster were doing a seria about a character called “De. Occult” and ome of the chapters ae ‘appeared tn Cook & Mokonls Comics Magazine. with ee thy mane changed to “Dr. Mystic” Yet its part ef the same sioryine, and then it goes back te “Dr. Occul”in the DC book. Do you know eything about that? teers Image. But Sareeer ener Eee er ere cere porter renee es reer isisnge meee cree ere ts emree nats WHEELER NICHOLSON; [think thoy weve just pinched, [think tose issues, they just sort-of si, “Hletes some stu we can use” and they changed the name end used f Jas Why would they do that? Would the Major be involved in that in ay way? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: No, oo JA: So you Sink that woudd be «wholly Siegel and Shuster— WHEELER NICHOLSON; [dont think was even ‘them, [think the enps putting out tht Ite comic book Just tok Vas Okay. Iwas trying to figure out why there were a couple of fctures that spear inthe Comic Magarsnes ‘thal appeared in DC by the same people, and with the samme characters. thinking of Shelly Mayer here. was wondering why thot happened. othe S500) WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, they would just ase stuf that had been printed someplace dee VAs So you dont sink st a0 a businats erramgement. WHEELER NICHOLSON; [dost thisk so JA: Did you ever meet or know Shelly Mayer? WHEELER-NICHOLSON; [nev of hia, nd Emay even have known Inu, [dont remember, “A Bad Choice” JA: How did your father meet Harry Donenfld and jack Liebowite? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: They were in the same building, and he wis slays out ising foe sax, Looking for backing looking for money ooking fr investors. Doneseld presented himself as someone to do the printing fr him, and the old mai sald, “Oh, yeah Fine, this guy’ got some dough. Hy, low about ineesting in what I'm dolng?" A bad choee Sothey started off witha business arangement ofthe distribution ony, and then eventually the printing, es wel. Doneniald took overa printing compaay. Then, "Yes [invest your money, but we wil do your printing and you! distabution. Then well not only de ts, but you'll he my pines Jack Lebowitz wil become your parner and handle the books.” So the next thing he knew ie had two partners insiead of one, and they ‘wets in charge of finances, printing, and distribution, and he had no idea ‘what was happening, none whale JA: Ws he foo trusting? WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Absolutely Absolutely, He would tend to ‘belive What he Was tol Yeas ster, we found outa pailclar seas they ‘had piled i terms of pushing hiss into barkraptcy and taking over by cvecprinting copies. One of the men working There, 3 young fellow who ‘was from Great Neck and a family friend named Caster Livermce, who vas the oldest son of very close family flends—he was a vey bright ‘oving man, end owned 2iguor stare witha wondecful name, Blythe Spirits, He and his wife broke up. and she go the stow and other things. He was sort-of deft. "Now wie zm I doing?” And the old ssan sald “Come to wock for me” Detective Comics was going wel, we were2 eels Nido, Son OF The ‘making mote, the bil colestors had stopped knocking onthe doors. But (Caster vent not In the creatve eed, but the financial end ‘When Donenfeld and Lichowitx started presuting my father, and ting over the company, [Casier| counseled the old man. “Phese guys, 60 slong with ther, Tale the 75 grend snd ean tothe back’ The old nan said, “This is my Grim. B'S crany-Lrefuse, absolutely sot" And he was right, becrse they would have screvsed hm anyway, a8 they did Sloge sand Shuste. Bul Custer seid-thie i ater the fact when he was working In effec, for Jack Liebowite—that they would overprint, Detective was sling boul 1st was elling—T dont now what the figures weze— say Lt vas elling 300,000 copies, hey would print 409,00. fd ost ‘them that such more. Theyd bring the est of them back tomy father as tenure and say, “See? hundred Thousand didi’ sl.” And Chey aimed ‘the fle wasnt making any money besause ofall these returns That was ‘one oftheir scams, That wis fintly tld to s by Custer, who was tere 14s [tole it hed gone now, ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON; Het long dead, 'm sure And that was avery big fimly thing, Bis mother dissed him for hanging n with [Donenfeld and Lietowity after the demise, because she was very close to ‘my father and mothe [dont mean disowned him, but said, Td realy not Ile to see you” My oldest sister was always very much on his side, saying, “Fee did what he auld, and There was no reason for him to go down the ‘bes, aswel” Sohal was 2 big fanlly deal. JA: How did Donel and Liebovit tke it ever, exactly? What di they tel kam? [WHEELER NICHOLSON: We dort know that, [dou know that anybody living today knows that, now that te Aetion Comic ashes was developed ate in December of 97 as avec for "Supenznan” It was developed bythe old men, Then, saving ety in 1938, Donenteld sd, “Yeah, put the money int it Lovet Stating eacly In the yea, they started a campaign of moving hix sway saying, “Way dos!t you ust do ‘the cirative work? Dream wp new pooducts, and well run this whole ‘hing, Dont you weorey about i.” He sd, "No, [doit wart to do that, "This i what do, and Lbcough the company tis fs! So they vere fighting then, but sil onthe sae page to some degree, Then somewhere oss Satis Facts About The of opens in January oso, Donenfld witht tally the eight 0 do so—decided ‘hat Sullivan was becoming the chit editor, even though the old man was stil on the masthead asthe publisher [neat Iie went on as ithad Iefore because they ep doing the same thing they hed been doing. wi the old man protesting these motions. And that continued, that singe ‘way of operaing, forthe nent several month right theough May when finally they pulled the rug ttally and his name was taken of the masthead, nd Donenfeld und Liebowitz moved up te Lexington Avenue, Js Vows father was very aware of copyrights, Lam sure, So he knew that ‘when ie Tost, they took everyting. B was lec, stock, and bare WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Yes, JA: Did he even get any money wher he was forced out? ‘WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Ife may have received avery modest amount, {thinkenot, though, because ls posture was "Tm fighting this don'tBi ieee cote accept anything to de with i? He did not accep tis $75,000 gle, land his being the “restive ditectoc™ “’Superman’ Was A Major Subject Of Discussion” TAs What di say you about “Superman”? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON; ‘Supermat!’ yas a sssor subject of discussion llthe way kom early ia of"27, right theough the achcan propoed, right ‘heough all he troubles, It was ¢ major source of discussion inthe house, ‘He thought it was exivemely tly, nd ue was very specie about [Nietzchean kind of hero at this point of the Depression, and thal this ‘would be a perfect thing to put forth to the public at this time, Hie talked shoutit extensive, We lalied about taf the dinner tae [im sre if you ‘eer get a chance to talk: to my oldest sister, sell member thal very cleady. JAsDo you remamber what he sald about Siege and Shustar? WHEELER NICHOLSON: He vas very complimentary about them. He liked them, and was extremely high on them as 2 duo, He was very anc Involved wath them, as he wis with exerytning, They Would preset something, and he would do his morsel edtting ob, Now Siege wrote & ‘woe dog about this nol dealing spevllcaly with “Superman — tut swas very clea what their woking relationship was, Iwas very such his saylnig, “Lets do this” That wast the cate wth “Superma— Slegel and Shuster had that idea—but he gave them the "Slam Bradley” ides. That ‘washis character. He in effet gave ito them and said, "Lets doa chavacter with these characterises” And to him, i Wasa precursor 10 "Superman fact, ws usta step away from— JA Wel, the Slam Brody face is the Superman faeo, Who would have named {Slane Bradley)? WHEELER NICHOLSON; Oi, undoubtedly the old man, He was the ctor ef that sip in the sense of eying, “Thies what We want to be doing” And lepels writing about it makes that very cess JA: Do-yo think that “Superman” might have bean the cata for Donenfeld and Lebowite 1 ace your father out of his compar? WHEELER-NICHOLSON: No. JA: Vou think thet would have happened anpey? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, Ja: Here a story thet Vin Silt fas told and Tsant to get yor reaction fo it Vin Sullivan says they were going to do Action Comic,2 eels Nido, Son OF The ‘Te SPRANGE ADVENPORES 20... of ME. WEED— eae BARBERS oss Satis onan Se Co Cee ene pire renin ee eipueoienl airinaaai rpers ich eer te er eee peaehirrrearere stir aeveriesremor aver eee er eae eee eae ea Cee eet rer ee er el pres or eee ee err erates ape a Ce eer ott ea et ereen eee ee eet ‘ond Shelly Mayer said. “Tve seen hls Superman thing and vow ougit to tse 4” Then Vin Sullivan seid, looked at Superman and Tthoughe i ‘was good” So he Sook: the credit for waving to publish the Superman chsncctr in Action, WHEELER-NICHOLSON; Tht s such [cap]! "Tat is unbelevale! At ‘he sme time [ave rea that story, Ive cead the sioey that Dosen‘, of allpcople, wen to M.C. Gaines and said, “Loced an ides for this new -magarine? Wel, ow Action Comucs was developed bythe old man as ‘avehide for “Supeaman’ fs ust nonsense! JAs Another story I ead is that, when they published Action #1, Denenfdiooked ofthat cover and said, “This is 0 unblievable no ‘ones going fo iy this” And shat whey Superman dich appear on the cover forthe next fow months, Facts About The of opens ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: Thet may or may not be tne: [doit know that JA: Well, Tmo this: Thave « Baby Snooks ratio shew where Denesyeld is called “the discoverer of Superman’ because they cant use the word “creator” ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: [chuckles] He wast the castor, the Aiscoveer, or anything, He had nothing t do with the content of that magne, JA: He claimed in this interview that he was the only person who hat {faith inthe charccter WHEELER-NICHOLSON; [Zought] But we have welten proof of the old san saying "This sa mnarelous thing and Jet’ do it” two years before ‘hat Tenoe that they sid i. Fas only"him, Iyou read ack Liebouttzsebtuary inthe New York Times his description of his rte ‘was fact, the old mat ok, Neither of thers had wnything te de with ‘the eration or the content. They were talking financials, the dstribtion, ‘and so forth had nothing to do with “Should we use ‘this characer or that characte” at aay time! Jas And youte saying nit did Vin Suvan, WHEELER-NICHOLSON: No, Salivan hd editorial sayin thing, but he certainly dist discover ‘Supecmen” Thal was aeeedy 2 done deal. Ir-had been lying on the old mans desk with the old man saying. “L ‘watt? Jery and Joe had said atone pelt, "Were & Lite ery of taming it ore to Fou, even Though you ‘wart, Uecause of your finances” And the eld’ man sad, "Well, ax soon as Tan get enous dough to do i, wee going todo tis ‘thing And that’s documented! So while twas sting there, waling to be done, Detective Combes hecarne succesful. Action Comics wes [beng ut ‘together; “Le’s do # nove” He went to Donenteld, "Leis have the money ‘todo it” Donenfeld decided, “Tey this is goiig to go, and Detective Comics is already going. Les get rid of this guy who's going to Ws 80% ft. We don’t want hi to do that, We want that 8085" “Like A Snowball In Hell” JA: We discussed how Donenfeld and Liebowite lied about the print mans to make him think he wa going into bank psc: Wax tare ity ether thangs tha they pulled We that? [WHEELER NICHOLSON: Theve were a bunch af things, because at that point they wee in charge of finanes, aad he had no clue about them. He ‘nad to go tothe:—the enemy—to find ont what the finances wore, There ‘was no objective view. They were in charge of printing. and they were in chhaage of dstebution, so ae was ike s snowball in Hel. Thete was just noioheve fo tum to gel any tle in tex af whatever They wanted to do say what they dd JA: When your father started out publishing comics, was he declng with ‘Donesyeld fromthe beginning? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: No, He vas with a very respectable McGraw. i think it was Donenfelds insistence, wen he agreed to finance hsm, ‘eas that he shift his printing and distibtion to him. Bat he had both diferent pnts and distbutoss before st JA: Donenfild also had these spicy pulp detective magazines, but your [ath want oled wih thm WHEELER-NICHOLSON; [New York City Mayor] Porello LaGuardia ‘was really on a rampage io xi the burlesque shows ard spicy magazines and 30 forth, Doneneld was Halling around for something other todo. right at that point. My tither was a godsend to them, They ssw the"ks Gol Was The Craphie Not Ihandueting on the wall, that they wete going tobe pu out cofbusiness, or be waieod-down so badly that there would bbeno money ist. So the old nan came slong for them, ‘Which made them peetecly exgev and willng to ines, VAs Fe btle werprised that the Maor wasnt consulting sombody ele abou “Should Ido ths or moi?” as far as giving contro ofthe company ava WHEELER-NICHOLSON: [dont know. Then nobody sill lve who Knows who he was acing to anyone VAs He rust kaw had louper meu} ‘WHEELER-NICHOLSON; [puesshte must have, but | i doa know hat mans mame, nd never heard it Lhavest Cal found anything in is papers tat shows there was 2 i Jawyee involved. He was very much a person whe would i decide om his ow to do things. He wast great for consuling ther people, My moter was one ot his amor sources of oonsuling. JA: Woe se as tasting asthe Major seemed to be? WHEELER NICHOLSON; No, no, Bute would consult hee, then de ‘what he wanted, thon the company? Di he get any money atl? WHEELER NICHOLSON: These sze acpi stries on ‘that, One of them is that he was given the righ to More ‘Bun Comics a opposed to everything else, and he tamed ‘that down. They offered him-—the figure T remember Inearing was $70,000 a year as the person tobe i charge of development, new projects and new ideas, and every thing ese, And he would relinguish his ownership. He said "No" te that, quite propery, You have to undevstand ‘hu, from his stndpoint he wes dealing with employes “They wore people who came to him and sad, “Lets do ‘hie? Heseid, "Tin the oimner of this company and fm ‘he inal word, I don't want to,do thal, Go say” And ‘they sild,'OA, yeah? Not so fst, uy fend. You owe us allthis money. You have to go into Bankenpicy” But he Aids owe then, and even the bankruptcy judge—L ¥ dost know i weve mestioned this toyou—was a ose ‘tend of Donentild’s, TAs Ne, you didi. So the fe wos in there, fon. WHEELER NICHOLSON: 05, yes, JA: The you consider thls 0 bea calculated effet to ete of i. WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Absolutely Here were these to guys, and ‘Hey se a fortune coming dewe the read and they say, "Well do we want ‘all poston ofthat in teems of our awnetship or do we want 1 JA: And they wanted i ll. So basically he sgned the company over fo Doneneld and Lebowitz. Do you know if Paul Sampliner was iavolved? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, he was pat owner ofthe distributors, He had nothing todo withthe day-to-day running of the magezines JA: Atte time the Majer hed the compa fie copsnghts ofthe charactors ware his cornet? WHEELER NICHOLSON: belive so, yes VS they nately wont fo Donen WHEELER NICHOLSON: I presuze so. We donit know that.2 eels Nido, Son OF The TAs And that sng whan they moved the company ess, sight? WHEELER NICHOLSON: Thats correct. ftom Fourth Avemu to Lexington. JA: Your father was never af the Lexington Avenue ofices? ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: No, although Lent i there win my boother ‘Malcolm one time after i all took place. [dont knaw why we were there for what we were doing, “He Returned To Writing Stories” JAs So he ently fos the company, What happened next? WHEELER NICHOLSON: He turned to writing sores, andhis major interest was military history. He bad been folowing Ue growing war in Rurope on 2 mimite-by-mimate bass. He had 2 mnge map on his wall and ‘onthe study wall and was onthe radio listening to every news beoadeast, and reading every pape. He evex got so lbera a to tead a New York ‘Times, as opposed to the Herald ‘Tribune, justo get a8 uch Infor imation ashe could BATTLE SHIELD VAs Did he Keep hls maitary contact? WHEELER NICHOLSON: No, vot realy: He was acting a8 an individual totaly. He wasnt dealing with the War Departinent per se, or ‘anything le that VAs But he must har kept in touch ‘wth some fiend i'd made during dis mites time ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, he did. Tommy Thompson, for one, the inrentorof the Tesny Gun, Tony "Thompson was brillant, and avery good fiend. The old man wrote the [ote Shield ofthe Repub in 1239, 1 snes. It came ont in, before we got ino the wac, and tt was about the ‘Svategies that ought 19 eit, and What was weong with [urtent sieategies), Jot of it was rethinking many of the positions he had had in hls fight withthe Army This book was wel/-recetved by mlleary analysis ‘on Wht our strategies ought to be, and here our dangers lay. He was exivemly knowledgeable in those azeas, Then he wrote a second one after wel gotien into the war, called Are We Wioming the Hrd Way agin Aiscussing our staleges ad things we were doing ght, things Wwe were doing wrong. Ee ada very low opinion of the War Departnent ia general He lked Genera Buentower He thought he was dolag¢ good job, tut that guywho was running the whole “sft underbelly” es Cuchi called to the Illi campatgn, Marc Crk my father ft he was 3 Uatche, that he just set mes oto de. Ad he did wast avery good ‘Azny Lean, i go the ob done There wat ot of gearing ap and alot twtr sat happening nthe Second Woe We but the Fest Wild Wer snd that peed afterwards fad been devel The ctque of our tecesior nthe Fist Word War was scathing. Theve wis lt of alk shoul during 190,21, 72, the tne he was having his bats Thre ‘were thow in agreesent with hin, and hey were digg nto why did these deaths occu? How coz: tht happened? Sone wes on «crusade ‘at had wey el sues end [ante en svldenct of he peblems ofthe Fest World Wee) Jas Whet dd the Mejor think of Goneral Marsal and Patton? oss Satis OF THE Te ae Facts About The WHAT’S WRONG WITH OUR ARMY and how we can correct it Major Takes A Le er es pre Pere one Coe ee eee er Ty eee "WHEELER NICHOLSON; He loved Patton he thought he as «good peneral, He was not that enamored of Geooge Marshall, He knew Marshall personally and he thought he wae a plllcian. He thought Elseshower did a brlliant job of pullingthe Allies together, and getting D-Day to happen. JA: Did he have ae opinion of British General Montgomery? WHEELER NICHOLSON: [dont cemember it. [do temember that he ‘thought he was arrogant, bu so did everyone de, 1 Well. it ene om accurate opinion [should backtrack here, Do yor. remember how he felt when he fost DC Comics? WHEELER-NICHOLSON: [do remember, yes. He was a mat who rarely showed his emotions. He was very calm. He rarely got mad, Ithe disagreed, ven violently, his propensity wast convince. One of his comments ws, “snot the veins om his neck that standout in an argument, ste the fics? He weuld—tts notthe word F want, but Teen think of another one—cajole people into his point of view, rather than ‘nacumer it in, He never raed hs voice, he was very calm. But to answer ‘our question, he was close tp a breakdown, as dose as weld ever seen, He started drinking, He drank heal fos short period. He was theestening ‘oleae everyone and join The Black Watch to fight the Nazis. [mewtual laxgiter) He was in ceally tough shape and Mother sort-of smoothed it ‘up but he was rating round the house, which ea incredible attitude ‘oc tha particular man. He wast ike tat. Bt that wes a very Jongelived period, To months, maybe two and ¢ haf theee months, VAs take it most of hs anger was towards Donenfld and Lisbowits, ‘WHEELER NICHOLSON: Yes, He eventually took sot-of 2 phiosopc views and never looked back, Mother never got over it She hated them, and anytime any mention ofthem came up she would spite, A So as far as you kn lst he company ad got mating fort Didi blame himself very much do you think? WHEELER NICHOLSON: [don know whether he di Probably he Aids ever sitthere and doa ses culpa He Just topped tt Thet whole subject was no longer dacumed. Aer having been & majo subjet of soaversaton inthe fal talling about upcoming ses andthe upcoming publication of Superian aad working ot “Supeanan? ust stopped. That al stopped a seule of months before "Sxperinan cue oul, We didn se a specie day wit allthat. You dos aot it dayto day but ny brother and Tee doen inthe vilage tn Grea! Neck, end we hhadseen, months beove the proposed cove We sw the sageine on the send, bought hose, and si, fenoitedl“Ob, ts finally ou!” And the response was sort Msn yes Wh thay ne" We weet toda 21 and 12 yeas ald, "Tve ost the wile onary? We us sot of got the idea ores perind of ime. Lased any oldest ise tha same sqestion: "Was there any tine they tal sat you down nd sal Hey this is wit hhappened, te wisle binghas been oe.” She sd no, she ust finally got the dea as we did, ‘And fm then on,we ad no sore connection wh the cami bok wold. West Bought comis book ike ay oher kd. and de’ fe connection ot He went on, gino his misary ‘weting—which was very Iesstve—seryprodigiouy Despite the fact hat wasn 2 suet macht, weve very nlc M's oT ME ON THE 60, BUTT'CAN KEEP Bur oe BULLETS Been though we ved in nice uppersniddie dass town and a aloe upper middle dass house, t's always dicey when youve with & peeson whose income i frozz ‘wening You knows, you sla story and everybody has plenty of money, And hen that crs ou, and you vrte avether one, shop it around, and then money comes x And soit was aways up and down and up and dows, We were always broke one day, and lois of money the nextday. But we certainly did| petserere “He Was Actively There Right Through Two Months Before... Action #1 Came Out” JA: When you saw “Superman” on the stands, you sid you had alreody seen the early artwork. What did 03 see? Beebo omee HR on wer WHEELER NICHOLSON: fast the cover [Acton #1], and some of the strips. Lmeun, weld sen lets of sul. We had lois of came, reoms full of ‘hem, a garage hal fl of those conics, Unbelievable JA: The “Superman art you saw was nor pages it was stripe, Correc? WHEELER-NICHOLSON: Corie. JA: I wanted to make sure of that, because there’ also ar ongoing battle Cer who made Gossips into pages. Sly Maer aimed he asf ne wh puted phe ships into ges jor Action #1. And ther there ‘oa at named Harry Lampert ko rad he ad doe # for