Lamppost: - 01:41pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#

[Lamppost] - 01:41pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#1 of 321)
I am 100% certain that the thing to do with men, when they start something you don't
like, is to happily ignore them.
without resentment, or hissy fits, talks, or tears. just exit the convo. nicely, happily, and
go do something else. something you really enjoy. anything. go buy shoes. not kidding.
go to the beach. go get a kitten. sign up for tango.
eNjOy LiFe.

keep your sentences to men short. soft, femmy and short.
men love it.
do not put all your cards on the table. and always surprise them. keep them on thier
toes. do not evah tell them everything about yourself. evah.

men like girls who are focused on their own pleasure.
these, they consider, really nice girls.

go work out more. it changes your brain chemistry so you don't obsess. because your
brain chemistry gets different. not lying. it also changes it so you don't get angry as
much.
and, it keeps you busy. and hot. ;)

this is how men are. the less generous & loving you are, the more they think you are
generous & loving.
they are not like us.

learn to say cool things guys LIKE to hear (that make you a challenge!), like..
"mmmmm...thanks for the invitation! wow. that is really nice! but...mmm...I think I'll pass!
anyway, I have to go to dance (climbing wall/music practice)".
learn to say,
"mmm...on second thought, I think I'll pass..."
"mmmm...wow. that sounds fun, but I think i'll pass"
make it a reflex , when a convo starts to not go right. the minute after you get that first
"uh-oh", sinking feeling, from what he's saying.
a dreamgirl would just lose interest. becaause she isn't interested in guys who don't go
all out for her. why?
because she knows she is The Bomb. he will see you as a challenge, if you do, and get
more interested, and go all out for you.
guys are totally not like us.

ignore e-mail from men who have your phone #.
ignore e-mails from men who don't want to make effort to plan the date for the girl.

when a guy szys he's "confused", end the date quickly, smoothly, and nicely, with no
hysterics.
then Ignore him for like a month. screen your calls 24/7. don't call him, don't pick up his
calls.
when a guy says he "think we should take a break". do the above, plan, too. and work
out a lot and take really, really good care of yourself, and accept dates with other men.
go out a lot.
Be Nowhere On The Planet To Be Found.

For the first time in my life I'm summoning up the courage to next a guy simply cuz he's
not 'good enough.' I hope you'll all be proud of me.
I'm sure he is a good enough man. Just free him for someone else. he just is not right
for you and you are not what he is looking for, either.
try to just let go him, and not despise him for not being your dream lover.
try to see the good qualities in him, and not focus on only the bad, turning it over and
over in your mind.
try to look for his good qualities, as much as you look at this bad qualities.
try to see his good qualities more than you see his bad qualities.
and, just free him for someone else.

When a loved one is terminally ill, cry, talk, cry, talk, crytalkcrytalk, mainly with your
girlfreinds, other close family members, therapists, mom. Write in your journal. Talk only
a little with your bf. Keep the conversations honest but SHORT. like, "I'm so sad. My dad
is getting worse. I don't want him to die.". Said softly. without hystrionics/tension.
Then don't go on and on.
Men have a shorter capapcity to listen to greif feelings and heavy emotionalizing &
crying than women. It does not mean they are bad or they are jerks. They are just wired
different. It is very taxing for them to listen for very long stretches to lots of crying and
emotionalizing.
If it were me, I would keep it to 30 minutes. No, I wouldn't. If it were me, I would keep it
to just a few honest, real, consice sentences. "My sister is getting worse. I feel so so
sad. I don't want her to die.". That's probably all I would say to my bf. Give men what
they can handle.
Then they can support you better. Don't give bfs All The Medical Details, or the blow by
blows of the loved ones worsening medical condition, and very much, HUGE, extreme,
sobbing, and don't tell him what everyone else in the family is thinking, doing, feeling,
etc., about the loved one.
Men can support you better, when you don't treat them like women.
They often will show their Real Love for you by DOING things for you. Not by acting like
guys in soap operas, and being super luvy wuvy. When you are hurting, they wil start
Fixing things for you (your car/your sink/your sticking doors). It looks strange to us, and
we don't recognize it as love, but that is how men show LOVE.
They will fix your garage door opener. They will repair the thermostat in your oven. Take
these as LOVE, as kisses and words of luvy wuvy. that is What They Are. Men do What
They Are Good At, when they want to support you. They know they are not good at
crying and talking about feelings (they don't know what to say, so they start to feel like
they are inept, so don't put them in this position too long- it produces nothing but
feelings of ineptness in them).
When you are crying about what the doctor said, and he won't hold you but instead fixes
your dryer, he is saying "I Love You. I Want To Help.
I also wouldn't let everything out with a bf. That is something to save for a husband.
really. Be communicative, but try to keep it short. Do your extreme sobbing, with your
mom, siblings, therapist, or in your bed with your cat. Your bf can't handle it.

Have dinners together in restaurants, or with family or at dinner parties with friends, or
have picnics in outside places, like parks. or beaches, where you are in public places,
etc..don't have *hanging out* dates, alone together, at each other's apartments. it's too
hard not to be intimate

never, EVER- and I mean ever say to a man (no matter what his relationship to you)
"You don't *care*". it is one of THE worst things you can say to man- any man- about
anything. It is like saying to a woman, "you look fat in that dress". lol.
it is poison to his ears. it is SO majorlly insulting- SO offenisve- so heartless, cruel, and
cluless. it alienates them very much.
men feel desperate, and futile, and exasperated when women say that to them. and,
they get angry and depressed. and it makes them want to stop trying, with the person.
use his Stuff. ask to USE his leaf blower, his cordless drill, his bicycle pumpthen he will
stop feeling you don't care. when you ask to USE men (and their Stuff) it feels like
kisses to them. like kisses do to us. They Are different Then Us.

in general, with men, *stop* discussing things. stop. start looking for what is *neat* and
*cool* about a guy.
he can fix a window. cool. he can fix a computer SO cool! he can move your furniture.
he can fix a boat. he can Buy a country house. he can make a lot of money to send his
kids to college. he can drive long distances to go camping. he can catch delicious fish.
he can fix a washing machine! he can tie cool knots. he can fix you telescope. he can
plant fruit trees in your garden.
and *stop*, and I mean *stop*, looking to What They Do Wrong.
it is a road to disaster. and miserable, failed relationships with men.
stop *whining* that they they do not Act Like Women. and stop raging at it.

read What Men Want, by Herb Goldberg. he explains it and elaborates on it very well.
he is the one who taught me everything I understand.
in general, women's relationships with men only improve by leaps & bounds if they stop
reading insult into nearly *every* thing men do (and then wanting to discuss thier
*insulted* feelings) (which, by the way, hugely alienates men).
if a woman wants a man who doesn't work 60-90 hours a week, she'd do best not to
marry one who does.
it is just nuts to marry one and then complain & rage for her whole marria

many men are more concrete about love. they show it with concrete things.

Reminder to the reader: these are ALL LILI*'s posts.

do not wear a baggy t-shirt at the gym.

men who really love you for *real* say things like men who love you for *fake* do. it is all
very twicky.
if a man says luv talk junk to you but nevah fixes your things, suspect the love is fake.

self hypnosis. hynotize yourself to believe you are the hottest of all hot dreamgirls in the
universe.
thatz what I do.
buy lots o cute shoes, to act as natural anti depressants.
also, go to the gym already and excercise. it combats thinking about all this stuff. gives
you a natural high & exuberance.

creat distance & mystery. that is The Cure for everything.

your question is a classic example of how women ignore 2/3 of the great things men
say/do on dates, and focus on one clumsy comment and focus on it & magnify it and
make it the whole date.
being So easily and SO frequently personally offended & deeeeeply insulted by
everything.
please try to give it up.

if guys bug you lots by commenting on other hot women, you can ask them to stop, but
keep it LITE.
don't tell them, "because i'm so HURT!", "I'm SO insulted!", "I'm angry & hurt, at how
rude blah, blah, blah" (learn to stop talking to men like this).
just smile, wink, ask them lightly to tone it down a bit, a girl doesn't really need to hear it
on dates, or rib him, in fun, and gently remind him he's not with the guys.
be LIGHT. and confident.
be FUN & Nice. pretty, fun, nice, confident.

when a guy is late, Get a LiFe. don't stay around waiting, fuming, feeling OFFENDED,
and fuming.
EnjoY your LiFe. and he will enjoy you enjoying your life, and you will enjoy liFe, both.
he wiil LIKE it. it will keep him on his toes!

when a guy is late, Get a LiFe. don't stay around waiting, fuming, feeling OFFENDED,
and fuming.
EnjoY your LiFe. and he will enjoy you enjoying your life, and you will enjoy liFe, both.
he wiil LIKE it. it will keep him on his toes!
it makes you different from every other girl they date who whines, and scolds, and cries,
"I'm so HURT!!".
do the unexpected. they like it. it's exciting to them!
Lamppost] - 02:11pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#25 of 321)

therapy sessions with herb goldberg. not joking. he will cure you. he also does therapy
by telephone, from anywhere. not kidding!
he's the best! I can't think of anyone who can cure anyone better than him.

a woman with "self assurance" trusts that people want to support her, and that men
want to, and that men will be there for her, and she trusts that she is in the process
(always) of getting what she needs.
she is not like the "self confident" woman, who doesn't trust that men will give her what
she needs, and so tries to *not need* anyone, and do everything herself.

When a guy is late for a date, I go do something else. when he asks, "where were
you?", I say, "I was here (on time for our date), and you didn't show up, so I went to the
gym/ a dance class/ a music class/ a climbing wall/whatever".
I feel no guilt. I did nothing wrong. I had a date, I kept it. I was there on time.
When a Man Dissapoints You, When a man lets you down, Ignore Him.

Go To The Gym. Get a personal trainer. take dance classes. get massages, find out
your best colors and NEVER wear *any* other colors! throw out everything in your
closet & dresser that is not your best best best colors.
if you hate your job- switch careers. never have a job/career you don't LOVE. you
should LOVE to go to work. you are going to spend a lot of your LiFe doing it!
do your dream career. write down 1-6 dream careers and go for one!
eat LOTS of fresh fruits & vegetables, use renova (if you are over 30).
NEVER pay rapt attention to Men Who Let You Down.
stay busy. take noo crap from men.
get the best haircut you possibly can. the best color, the best highlights. and keep them
up.
get your teeth laser whitened. ;)
do new things. do different things. don't be predictable.
do the unexpected.
remember, you only live once.
[butterfly6] - 02:21pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#29 of 321)

when a guy szys he's "confused", end the date quickly, smoothly, and nicely, with no
hysterics. then Ignore him for like a month. screen your calls 24/7. don't call him, don't
pick up his calls.
when a guy says he "think we should take a break". do the above, plan, too. and work
go out a lot.
Go about your LiFe. hang in there. but now is the time to Be Nowhere On The Planet To
Be Found.
Just Move On, whe men say either of these two phrases. Let them alone. Give them
Space All The Way To China.
smile, be breezy, and nice, and keep walking.
butterfly6] - 02:22pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#30 of 321)

Therein lies part of the problem. Men have a shorter capapcity to listen to greif feelings
and heavy emotionalizing & crying than women. It does not mean they are bad or they
are jerks.
They are just wired different. It is very taxing for them to listen for very long stretches to
lots of crying and emotionalizing.
If it were me, I would keep it to 30 minutes. No, I wouldn't. If it were me, I would keep it
to just a few honest, real, consice sentences. "My sister is getting worse. I feel so so
sad. I don't want her to die.".
That's probably all I would say to my bf. Give men what they can handle. Then they can
support you better. Don't give bfs
All The Medical Details, or the blow by blows of the loved ones worsening medical
condition, and very much, HUGE, extreme, sobbing, and don't tell him what everyone
else in the family is thinking, doing, feeling, etc., about the loved one.
Men can support you better, when you don't treat them like women. They often will show
their Real Love for you by DOING things for you. Not by acting like guys in soap operas,
and being super luvy wuvy. When you are hurting, they wil start Fixing things for you
(your car/your sink/your sticking doors). It looks strange to us, and we don't recognize it
as love, but that is how men show LOVE.
They will fix your garage door opener. They will repair the thermostat in your oven. Take
these as LOVE, as kisses and words of luvy wuvy. that is What They Are. Men do What
They Are Good At, when they want to support you. They know they are not good at
crying and talking about feelings (they don't know what to say, so they start to feel like
they are inept, so don't put them in this position too long- it produces nothing but
feelings of ineptness in them).
When you are crying about what the doctor said, and he won't hold you but instead fixes
your dryer, he is saying "I Love You.
I Want To Help.
I also wouldn't let everything out with a bf. That is something to save for a husband.
really.
Be communicative, but try to keep it short. Do your extreme sobbing, with your mom,
siblings, therapist, or in your bed with your cat. Your bf can't handle it.

Never Tell a Man What To Do. (it emasculates them).

yawn. never call him & never return his calls, stop being exclusive, go on LOTS of dates
with other men & on *every* night you don't have a date Go To The Gym. noo lie. do it. it
all works.

obey me *now*. ;) or I will bite you. rroar!

men like to be terrified. this increases the attraction.
Do Not Be So Afraid To Terrify. lol.
You are too safe & predictable. not joking
YOU need to do something dramatic. break out of your comfort zone, seelah! get more
Attitude.

women thrive on attention. men thrive on inattention.
that is why they are called the opposite sex.
because, they are *opposite* of us.

always walk away gracefully & swiftly, if someone doesn't treat you well. fake it, if ya
havta. ;)

he likes you. you are easy to be with. pretty & nice. you are self assured. you have a
life.
now, force yourself to date a LOT of men, and start quickly as you can tolerate (if you
don't get too depressed). don't even feel guilty, akward, and don't blink. and work out
your bod, and make yourself cuteeeeeee.
butterfly6] - 02:27pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#39 of 321)

when he takes you home, you thank him for the nice date, say breezily & sweet you had
fun. sweetly say "Goodnite! I had a great time!" or "goodnite! this was fun!". let him walk
you to your door. let him give you a goodnite kiss in front of your door. dooon't invite him
in, and he woooon't get the wrong idea!

dooon't be freinds with ex bfs, is my method. for me. but everybody do what you want.
I like to be either a love interest or nothing.

sweetly say, "ohh, that's great, but I can't! I have already accepted another invitation!
(for Saturday nite)". he *must* hear this. fake it if you havta.

focusing on the negative about men. instead of the positive. Give it up, and you will get
happily married.

always walk away gracefully & swiftly, if someone doesn't treat you well. fake it, if ya
havta. ;)

you gotta use sentences (I keep a list of escape sentences by the phone) (laminate the
list).
· "I gotta go! It was great hearing from you!"
· "I'm just on my way out! nice to hear from you!"
train yourself to say these reflexivley , the instant the convo satrts to get weird.

beeeee patient. Go To The Gym. lol. eat your vegetables.

I know some were trying so hard to get john grey's concept of *self assurance*. here is
a great post I found. this* describes it.
Some irony of doing TRs: When women "trust" that the man can "handle it" (the calling,
asking, planning, working to please, etc.) and handle it ALL on their own, we subtly treat
them differently. We talk differently, we're sweet and happy. We act less suspicious and
bitter.
In other words we put out vibes that allow him to feel successful. He doesn't feel the
need to become resistant. He actually DOES do more than imagined and quite happily,
while sometimes marveling at how "out of control" he feels.
On the other hand when we do not trust, deep inside and know that with faith, that a
man can handle ANY of the tasks of working for the woman, we subtly undermine him
and, sho'nuf, he does a whole lot less ... while acting like he's got to be MORE "in
control".
They LOVE feeling out of control while being *trusted* to take control of so much (and
thus, do more), ... They HATE being out of control while feeling *expected* to do more
(and thus, do less).
~ Tex ~ ...

if he hasn't asked for exclusivity by the 6 month mark, he does not want to.

Just Enjoy Him! Enjoy his good qualities & don't focus so much on the negatives. ;)
Lamppost] - 02:31pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#49 of 321)

take *all* rings off. never wear any rings of any kind. guys get too confused. they think,
wedding ring, engagement ring, promise ring...take shiny things off you fingers. go bare,
neked on your fingers to make it obvious you are not taken. ;)

WE DON'T TRY TO REACH Men Who Dissapoint Us.
WE DON'T TRY TO REACH Men Who Stand Us Up.
hello? HELLO? ( I don't care how worried you were he was in a car accident.)
If he is in a car accident, you will hear about it eventually.
When a Man Dissapoints You, When a man lets you down,
Ignore Him.
whatever you do, don't *pursue* him. you pursued him, when he let you down.

Then Stop Paying *Rapt* Attention To Men Who Let You Down. (
calling & calling & trying to reach him, is paying rapt attention to him. lol.)
ignore them.
totally.
this is called Being A Challenge.

Go To The Gym.
Get a personal trainer.
take dance classes.
get massages,
find out your best colors and NEVER wear *any* other colors! throw out everything in
your closet & dresser that is not your best best best colors.
if you hate your job- switch careers. never have a job/career you don't LOVE. you
should LOVE to go to work.
you are going to spend a lot of your LiFe doing it! do your dream career.
write down 1-6 dream careers and go for one!
eat LOTS of fresh fruits & vegetables,
use renova (if you are over 30).
NEVER pay rapt attention to Men Who Let You Down.
stay busy.
take noo crap from men.
get the best haircut you possibly can.
the best color,
the best highlights.
and keep them up.
get your teeth laser whitened. ;)
do new things. do different things.
don't be predictable.
do the unexpected.
remember, you only live once.

a woman with "self assurance" trusts that people want to support her, and that men
want to, and that men will be there for her, and she trusts that she is in the process
(always) of getting what she needs.

Be AdVeNturOus!

variety is the spice of life.

be sweet! be busy! be happy & pretty!

Go To The Gym, and STOP thinking/worrying about ALL of this. It is for The Man to
worry about!


consider, that most problems with men can best be solved, most effectively, by NoT
talking about it.
just be.

if you don't LIKE to date men who act like this, you got to...Not Go Out With Them.
it will continue after marriage. This is the very real him.

Do you have any more advice on how to stay strong...
Go To The Gym.
That is what you do about this. nooo lie. ;) Go shop for some great shoes. Take your
gfs, and go get thai food after. wear your new shoes to thai food... whatevah you do,
Don't Try To Understand this. any of it. blank your mind of it.

(do what weak people do, and you will be weak).

if he tries to inch his way into your apartment,
give him flirty smile and say, "oooh...noh, that's sweet but I need my beauty sleep!".
be sweet!
be feminine!
gooo inside, put on your fuzzy, pink victoria secret pjs, and reeeeelax. ;)
come post to us about zee date. ;)

join some dating services. preferably not online ones. to jump start your dating life. ;)
[maxcoyote] - 03:35pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#66 of 321)

Learn how to smile and say, "Noh."
[butterfly rose] - 06:26pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#67 of 321)

07:17pm Sep 21, 2000 EST (#319 of 357)
tell him, you were "lingerie shopping with Fifi" (and she had a hard time finding a bra,
because she is a double d) you and her went to fem fem stretch godess aerobix afta
that. then, you both got massages. ;)
Tell him there Is a Sale At Victoria's Secret. lol. ;)
This will get his mind offa whatever factual thing you were doing.
remember, men don't actually want detailed, factual answers, when they ask you
questions. If you give them, they will leave you for someone who doesn't answer with
factual things and deetails. They want your mysteriousness, and your femininity. They
want your allure. your flirt.
07:27pm Sep 21, 2000 EST (#320 of 357)
they want to think that you are a dreamgirl, and that every waking moment they are
away from you, you are doing something fem fem, sensual, hot. something soooo cute.
They *wish* they were there to see it! ")
never tell them you were cleaning the oven and ironing.
07:35pm Sep 21, 2000 EST (#321 of 357)
Tell him you were at "salsa aerobics", it's this *new* class that Paulo teaches, at the
gym... ;)
butterfly rose] - 06:32pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#68 of 321)

When a strong, secure, independent woman who exudes the confidence that
she can do without a man DOES give him attention and affection, it
means so much more.
He values her more because she demands that he earn her interest.
He is not a doormat...he is challenged...the rewards are much harder to
earn...so when he gets them, they mean much more.
Lili's reasons for not going blah, blah, blah
……The reason you shouldn't say all that stuff to him is because it communicates, "I
have low self esteem"- to men . It sounds illogical. But it is true.
Dreamgilrs don't ever say these things. Why? Because dreamgirls have super high self
esteem. When they don't like the way they are treated they lose interest . Very naturally
and very automatically.
Having that talk is chasing a man with your interest. It says- to men - "You treated me
badly and I am SO interested in you. Give me more of your attention by listening to this
talk". It also says- to men - "I want to engage with you. You interest me. I want more and
more of you". This is what men hear when women talk about stuff like you are thinking
of talking about. They don't hear the words or the topics or complaints.
Their animal brain just registers, "I don't treat her that great and she is really interested
in me. Weird".
Dreamgirls don't sit around thinking of what to say in these talks and how to present
their complaints to the men they are dating. Because, it takes a lot of interest to do that.
And a dreamgirl, when she doesn't like how she's treated Stops Being Interested in the
guy.
So, it would never even occur to her to pursue him with a conversation like this.
Men and women are not wired the same. They do not think the same. A woman will
think, "Oh, I'm just communicating, and *I'm* standing up for myself and showing *my*
self esteem by having this talk and demanding he treat me differently and complaining
to him about his behavior". Whereas men think, "I know I'm not treating her that great.
She is really really interested in me. She is a whacko.".
They don't hear the message of pride that the woman - and only the woman - hears,
and thinks she is conveying.
It always backfires.
Because Men Are Not Wired Like We Are.
To men a woman expresses her high self esteem by automatically losing interest in any
men who don't treat her the very best.
She expresses her self worth by her disappearance, and her absence of close, personal
engagement.
The Rules work, because they teach women how to mimic the behaviors of women with
high self worth, who actually lose interest in those men who don't court them very well.
The rUles teach women how to mimic the *unfelt* loss of interest, that comes naturally
to dreamgirls.

Reminder: These are all Lili*'s posts from the Ask Lili* board.

Anyways, I'm not going to her house (in another state) for Christmas. When the guy
(who I've only had one date with) asks me what I'm doing for Christmas, what do I tell
him? The truth is that I'm spending it alone and do not mind *one bit*. But no one
believes me! :) I don't want pity from him . .
whatever you do, *don't* (I mean doooon't!!) tell him you're spending it alone and it is
sublime.
be mysterious.
say, flirtily, "ohh, I have plans ...", dreamily, with your voice trailing off. ;)
smile like a mystery cat girl...
spunkily, flirtily, refuse to tell him what your plans are. ;)
if he persists, just give him a sexy wink. change the topic, breezily, flirtily have to go (or
"goh"). ;)
nevah. nevah divulge your secret, *mystery girl* christmas plans.
it will make him wonder and wonder and wonderwonderwonder about you all holiday
season.
he will go crazy. his imagination will run wild.
he will be intrigued, and magnetized to you.
if you tell him your real plans he will think you are strange or unpopular. he will not get
the sublimeness of your plans (whereas I do!). ;)
Be MyStEriOus!

Save
serene [Learning_More] - 05:27am Dec 21, 2000 EST (#72 of 321)

[Lili*]
yes, haha, men are atrracted to our perfume atomizer ball things. the mystery about it.
the nonsensical allure of the round shape of it. they are attractd basically to curves . be
it a breast or a miniature, rubber atomizer.
they find the curved shape more interesting than relationship analysis.
fill their life with a profusion of curves. get little pom poms on your accesories, get a
round little, perky bag, a round little hat, a round lolipop. ;)
Mysterious, Serious [*Marriage2000*] - 04:40am Dec 26, 2000 EST (#73 of 321)
yes! no falling off of this board. I haven't even made it through one round yet!
this is what a hottie looks like--> [quartney] - 05:46pm Dec 27, 2000 EST (#74 of
321)
Lili*
>I've been dating a guy for almost 1 month,who hasn't brought up NYE yet. We are seeing each other
tonight. I'm wondering if Weds night (NYE is Sunday) is too late to accept a date with him if he hasn't
brought it up already?
yes! it is too late! it's New Year's Eve !!!! a smokin hot girl always has a NYE date set a
month before new year's eve.
she has received *many* invitations from guys for NYE. and she's booked already. ;)
you are booked for NYE whether you are booked or not.
if he asks, you, you're Plans Are Mysterious. a wink and a smile is all he gets. a flirty,
"oooh, I can't reveal that!" is all he gets! ;)
if you want him, do this.
if he learns you have no NYE date so close to NYE, he will become less attracted to you
and think you aren't precious & popular.
>He has always done the calling / pursuing,
as it should be. ;)
>...but I called him Xmas (I know this is bad after the fact, I thought it was OK before I called him, since I
never usually call him, and he was all alone on Xmas, I forgot I was a Rules Girl, and was just being nice .
. .OK it won't happen again).
don't BE a really nice girl. they finish last with men.
>Anyway, on that call, he asked me for Weds.
he should have asked you for saturday!
if he asks you for wednesday it means he's saving saturday nite for his #1 choice girl. or
it means he isn't trying to get other men out of the picture. he should be trying to tie up
your saturday nites so other guys who are insane for you, can't get dates in. this is how
men work.
>So I'm concerned things are becoming less rulesy, or he's taking me for granted (he got me a Xmas gift,
so I shouldn't be too worried?)
what was the gift? in details. how was it presented. what did he say when he gave it to
you?
this tells *everything*.
>Anyway, I don't have anything else to do yet (I left scads of voicemails for my friends). Should I still say
no, I'm Sooo Sorry, I already accepted an invitation from a friend!
nooo! don't say, "I'm soooo sorry" (or it will ruin your love affair!)
and dooooon't say, "I already accepted an invitation from a friend"
(the kiss of death to your love affair).
never apologize for not being at his beck and call or not focused on him!
be breezy!
be happy! be lite! you girls don't get men.
men want the Happy Shiny girl.
nevah explain what your plans are! Where Is Your Mystery? (!!!!!).
never ever never evereverever be spending NYE with "a freind".
YOU ALWAYS HAVE A HOTHOT date that nite.
this is what a hottie looks like--> [quartney] - 06:01pm Dec 27, 2000 EST (#75 of
321)
Rollerbebe,
I was hoping by inventing the neighborguy thing I was creating terror.
it was a good move. ;) now, don't dwell on it. Go To The Gym. this is the secret. ;)
Do you think I could "become" smokin hot in his eyes?
yes. you absolutely can. and you already are. not calling him, not chasing him for a
*relationship talk* (bleh), not sitting on his porchsteps crying, waiting for him to come
home, not writing him a looong letter about your feelings for him, and how he hurt you,
and not sending him a christmas card, buying him a christmas present, not calling him
to wish a merry christmas, and being light & breezy when he called, and being
showered with little presents from other men , is already making you hotter & cuter &
shinier.
continuing to ignore him (with no resentment at all!), and booking a fun, exciting trip to
Club Med for January ( perfect move!), are going to make you even more smokin. ;)
also, Go To The Gym every night you don't have a date.
and do dreamgirl treatments to your *feet* and make them ultra fem fem. girls have no
idea how important a turn on this is to guys. it is extremely important to guys. it's very
erotic to guys. it's very dreamgirl very feminine. what men want form women is their
femininty and thier erotic power. thier sensuality and thier illogic. this is what magnetizes
and impresses men.
forget everything else.
Men want the breezy girl.
girls *totally* don't get this.
they want the elsuive, pretty girl. with silky fem fem feet with pretty painted toes. and
pink, satin sheets. and Club Med plans for January. and a NYE date booked a month
before NYE. ;)
go to the beauty salon. get the works for NYE. get the *best* cut and color and
highlights, the *best* make up. get an Aveda make over. ;)
always dress fem & pretty when you go out of the house. even to the grocery store or
the hardware store or the boring post office or bank. always. 7 days & nites a week.
make the effort and you will soon rule the world. you will have more men than you know
what to do with.
men are into pretty. they're into fem fem. they're into precious & popular girls. they're
into the Happy Shiny girls.
I think it's a little late for that, but if you have any further advice
on this I'll galdly take it. That would be a really interesting
experiment.
it will be a very interesting experiment. ;)
...if he does i will ignore, like you advised. Yes when I finally do
pick up, I will mention the club med trip. I can't wait to go!
I can't wait to hear about it! it's so exciting! ")
make sure to get a pedicure there. or before you go. wear femmy strappy shoes. don't
underestimate the extreme power this has over men.
lol! also take you camera! take lots of pictures! leave them scattered on your coffee
table for when he finally comes over. lol. have strangers at Club Med take "souvenir"
pictures of you with sexy foreign waiters. noo lie. leave them scattered around. when he
comes ovah to your place (which he *will* try) be sure to wear strappy shoes & have
pretty pretty toes when he comes over and he's looking at (balking at) your carefree
Club Med pichurs. ;)
and wear perfume!!! and dangly earrings!

Hello Kitty doesn't call guys [Lili*] - 02:14pm Dec 27, 2000 EST (#258 of 282)
he should be calling and calling you over the holidays wondering and wondering and
wonderingwondering and wonderingwonderingwonderingwondering Where Is She!?
MY G-D!!!! WHERE IS SHE!????
it is good for men to *wonder* like this. it is What makes them adore you and burn for
you. it creates mystery which is the No.1 thing you need to do to attract men to you and
make them stick to you like glue, and make them think the world of you. ;)
when he wonderswonders, his mind fills in the blanks with terrifying thoughts. it is
*terror* that makes a man treat you right and makes him think the *world* of you.
without terror, there is no attraction , for men. ;)

Hello Kitty doesn't call guys [Lili*] - 02:43pm Dec 27, 2000 EST (#264 of 282)
don't BE a really nice girl. they finish last with men.

Save
[Lamppost] - 05:08pm Jan 3, 2001 EST (#79 of 321)

The new Lili board is the Leopard spot.

Hello Kitty doesn't call guys [Lili*] - 02:18pm Jan 3, 2001 EST (#424 of 458)
How do you lightly and breezily respond when a girl friend asks you if you've heard back
from a guy you went on one date with - and she asks you this in front of a bunch of
people? No, I haven't heard from him again, and frankly, I'm fine with it, but I want a
good Lili-ish response.
say, flirtily , and *mysteriously*, "ooh, that's for me to know and you to not find out!".
then wink, flirtily.
practice dumb lines like this around your apartment. to your plants, to your dog, to your
goldfish when you feed them. say it 100 times a day, as you dust, as you do the dishes,
as you put bows on your dog's fur. ;)
then, it will become a reflex. it will rrroll off your tongue at the right time.
you have to practise, practise, and repeat and repeat it around your apartment to get it
into your neurobioly wiring, to develop it as a reflex.
stop thinking you need to give factual and detailed answers to people (men or women).
practise the mysterious anser.
especially in front of men.
Tip 'O The Day:
Men like the Happy & Shiny girl.
(they do not like the resentful girl) (they treat her so terrible)
when a man says something you don't like that makes you mad, go, "WHAT?!". and
nothing else. I mean nothing else!
Then get distracted (fake it) (seriously Fake It), and leave or get off the phone. In a
distracted and breezy, distant way.
Never say anthing more than, "WHAT!?".
Never go, "I'm feeling hurt. Why did you say that? what does that mean? I'm angry that
you said that and I'm disppointed that you blah blah blah". don't say, "I thought you blah
blah...if that's the way you blahblah blah...why are you dating me then? blahblah...go
find somene else to date...do you like her ? blah blah blah...I don't want to pay half for
the movie! what's this about you used to pay blah blah..."
don't go, "what do you mean I look bad in this dress? what do you mean blah blah...why
aren't you going to help me move? look, I don't get this blah blah...i was waiting for your
call blah blah for hours blah blah...blah blah".
one word response: "WHAT!?"
nothing else.
nothing else.
practise on your plants, cats, in your mirror, when you put cream your face.
you are missing certain right reflexes.
you can imbed them in your wiring by repetition. ;)
use the "WHAT!?", followed quickly by Blotting The Thing from your mind and grabbing
your gym bag and go do something positive for Yourself and become more elusive and
hard to reach, with nooo explanation.
THIS is the language men understand.

the biggest turn off to men is resentful women.
when a woman (or girl) says the kind of things on top, he thinks, "she is a drag".
that is ALL he thinks. he thinks, "what's wrong with her? I wonder what cindi is doing
right now...".
then he daydreams about cindi. she is the girl who goes, "WHAT?!" (and nothing else).
she is then elusive and rejecting.

men don't like women how go on and on about anything.

less is more with men. ;)
Tom Cruise's love interest in MI2 is... [Nyah] - 05:12am Jan 4, 2001 EST (#85 of 321)
Thank you Lamppost You are a Dear
Lamppost] - 12:41pm Jan 4, 2001 EST (#86 of 321)

Hello Kitty doesn't call guys [Lili*] - 11:54am Jan 4, 2001 EST (#482 of 486)
I had a follow-up question to the comment about being mysterious to both men and
women...can you do this at work? How do you handle this?
don't yak, yak, yak all the time.
don't complain about your bad day, or everything that went wrong this week or
everything that irritates you.
don't answer, at length, and in detail , every question someone asks you.
breathe slowly and deeply. keep your mouth shut 50% more than you normally would.
let people *wonder* about you (not know everything about you). .
don't tell your co-workers every detail about your period. never talk about your *cycle*.
never tell anyone what kind of *bith control* you use and what you think of it.
don't talk about your dating life *ever* to co-workers. yes, even girls. just smile, say
something flirty and mysterious instead. change the topic. be fun.
(everything you tell them about your personal life they tell ten other people, keep in
mind) (they also tell everyone what kind of birth control you use and how you like it)
(then you will really become unmysterious)
don't answer questions about how much your rent is, or how much you paid for your
house. and go on and on (in detail) about how hard it was to find a house/ apartment,
how many you looked at, what you thought about them, etc..
don't complain about your landlord.
don't complain about work.
don't complain how you didn't feel like coming in today.
don't complain that you have so much to do (at work or at home).
don't explain in detail when you think you're coming down with a cold or flu, all of your
symptoms and what they feel like to you.
don't go on and on about prices. be they gas prices or supermarket prices.
don't tell every single detail of what you did over the holidays.
don't talk about your wieght. what you weigh exactly, and what you feel about it, what
you want to wiegh, and what you eat and don't eat. and why.
that's only for starters. ;)
Tom Cruise's love interest in MI2 is... [Nyah] - 03:56am Jan 5, 2001 EST (#87 of 321)
thanks lamppost needed dat
[jagqueen] - 09:35am Jan 5, 2001 EST (#88 of 321)

ditto!
[esther] - 09:52am Jan 5, 2001 EST (#89 of 321)

Hey, who moved this up here? :)
don't whine. go cha cha. [Lili*] - 04:48pm Jan 4, 2001 EST (#521 of 601)
thank you girls! mwah! mwah! : *
Tip 'O The Day:
Do something flirtatious that delites men (things you might not not understand or believe
really turns men on) (men are funny!):
idea 1) go to chinatown and buy packages of those little femmy pink umbrellas things to
put in drinks. when men come ovah to your apartment, put these in your drinks (not his)
like put it in your lime mineral water, your iced green tea, or thai iced tea or sprite. ;)
twirl it femmily, while he's talking. if he asks for one (watch! some men will!) deny him
one. make him plead for one.(if he really likes you he will), then femmily give him one.
put it in his drink (with your manicured pretty fingers). wear perfume, for when you lean
in close to put the umbrella in his drink. ;)
idea 2) or go buy novelty ice cube trays. they make ice cubes shaped like hearts. very
flirty. very femme fatale. or shaped like flowers (dye with food color these pink). lol.
you would not believe what men like. they think it's cute and sexy. if you buy heart
shaped ones, you can put food coloring in them to make them red (fun for all girl
slumber parties, too, on valentine's day too- if you don't have dates!).
idea 3) or go to a toy store and buy those fake, play tattos. in hearts. put one on a sexy
spot- like your belly, your cheek, or your ankle (or near your breast) to surprise him. or
litle flower ones. it sounds dumb but men get a thrill out of funny things. do little
flirtatious things to accent your femininty. ;)
i'm going to go get a funny (true) post to copy here...about what happened to another
girl...(be right back!). ")
Lamppost] - 01:33pm Jan 8, 2001 EST (#91 of 321)

go cha cha. [Lili*] - 04:57pm Jan 7, 2001 EST (#670 of 728)
I finally picked up the phone, hope I did OK:
Meanguy: Hi! You can't ever return phone calls???
Me: You haven't changed still complainin like a little ole lady (giggle)
I would not advise to talk like this. It's too *girl bud*. it's too funnygirl. it's too like one of
the guys razzing one of the guys. too tomboy.
it's not a feminine response.
I'd be feminine.
be sweet.
say, "aw, I'm sorry, (sweetly, sweetly) I haven't been home much! it's really nice to hear
from you- how are you?"
we are nice and we are sweet . we are feminine and warm. we are like a ray of
sunshine. we aren't sarcastic, we don't talk like guy buds or tomboys or wisecraking
buds.
we are sweet , when they catch us. always.
if he's been calling and calling and leaving messages, but not calling to Ask You Out On
Dates, but rather just to shoot the breeze on the phone, then, yes, he's calling you
because he's bored or something.
If he doesn't ask you for dates when he calls, he's not that into you.
Should I tell him we are not right for each other next time he calls? Or play this out to
see where it goes?
either way. no reason to urgently dump, tho. you can date a lot of guys, and just throw
him into the mix. ;)
unless he's too blah about you. then, ditch him to make room for guys more into you. it's
more fun to date them.
he'll be a LOT more interested in you tho, when you get back from your Club Med
vacation. ;)

and sign up for male dominated activities/classes
financial classes/seminars
windsurfing
sky diving
scuba diving
race car driving
wall/rock climbing
raquetball
kyacking
bycicling
home repairs for beginers (plumbing, tiling etc.)
pool (billiards)
martial arts
fencing
target practise (live out your charlies' angels fantasies or your james bond/ mission
impossible side)
archery
it's a numbers & exposure game.

How should a woman act if she is going through a terrible illness that everyone knows
about, or is experiencing severe financial loss, or has had tragic deaths in her family
recently, etc.
poised.
period.
(she can cry & brake down with very close girlfreinds only or with a counselor, behind
locked doors) ;)
to the rest of the world she still keeps her mystery and her poise.
and if she wants to get married, she never talks about her tragedies on dates.
(that's what shrinks and grandmas are for).
I ask this as a hypothetical question. Our lives are not always about being femmy and
girly and happy and cute. Sometimes it is about being courageous and hardworking and
simply putting one foot in front of the other.
yeah, yeah, I know, i've been there (if you oooonly knew), and I did it by being *poised*
and quiet about it.
don't Tell All.
Sometimes, as much as we would love to always be carefree and breezy and girly, our
actual real lives do not lend itself to that.
Our lives may be calling for different sorts of attitudes and behaviors just to survive.
yes, yes, but you still keep up your looks, your poise, etc.
Simply put, how should a woman act around a man/men, esp. those who might know
her life is not set on a "happy dial" at a particular time? Should she still be acting happy,
light, and breezy in the face of tragic losses? Just wondering.
poised & pretty. poised, quiet and very well dressed. ;)
and don't answer questions about tragedies, with lots of facts and details. soft, short,
feminine answers. one to two sentences.
(this used to be how everyone acted) (in the olden days) (it was called manners and
good raising).
I would really like to know, as I highly value your opinion. Or should she "hide out" until
she can recoup from her struggles enough to act the part of The Shiny Girl? I hope you
can find the time to answer this question.
or, yes, hide out, and *do* nourish yourself.

with your husband, of course you are more intimate.
but you do it with restraint.
(one sentence instead of one hundred to talk about a bad feeling).
don't tell your husband all of your tragedies. that is what shrinks are for. marriage should
not be like therapy.
save some mystery. don't burden your husband with all your pain, problems and
childhood tragedies. this used to be called being well mannered and raised right.
poise. be intimate but don't be a basketcase. don't act like you're in group therapy. don't
treat your husband like he's another one of your girlfriends. he's not. he's your husband.
he's your man.
know the difference between how to talk in a therapy appointment and how to talk in a
marriage. he's not your therapist. not yo momma.
don't make him listen to everything.
sherie & ellen teach this also.

get yourself completely together [Lili*] - 11:52am Jan 9, 2001 EST (#774 of 779)
they say one week night date and one saturday night date. nothing more. ever. sherri is
much more strict than ellen on this rule. she never let her husband see her more than
two times a week until they were married.
she is totally against the thing in book one, about "once a week the first month, twice a
week the second month, three times a week the third month, four times the fourth
month...".
I used to think sherri was too extreme and I really balked when she told me to never see
a guy more than 2 times a week. it sounded wierd. now, I totally get it and I agree with
sherri 100%.
it's like joy-rose (a stellar rules girl) says, "guard your heart" (and your time). until you
know he is very serious about you. keep your life your own. ;)
very serious is not defined by him taking off his pants (as so many girls mistakenly
think).
unless a guy wants to marry you, there's no reason to see him more than 2 times a
week. you should fill up your life with dance lessons, astronomy classes, rock climbing,
learning a foreign language, trips with your family, travel, vlounteer work, or learning to
grow tulips or sharpshoot.
dig deep into your long forgotten chilhood dreams of what you wanted to do and be
when you daydreamed of being a grown up. do everything.
get a degree in organic chemistry, or get a swarthy personal trainer and a sleek, bitchin
bod. buy a tiara or write a novel.
but don't give your time, heart, body, and entire soul to men who aren't very serious
about you (serious is not defined by him taking off his pants and underpants), or you
could be wasting a lot of your *time* for nothing. and you could get very hurt.
never assume a man is serious, or assume he feels the same as you.
if he isn't talking concretely about marriage, he isn't very serious about you (yet), so see
him only two times a week, and fill up your life with other things.
in the tapes I have, they say, "you have to treat your time as very *precious*, so he will
treat you as *precious*". ;)
[HEIDIGIRL] - 03:29pm Jan 9, 2001 EST (#96 of 321)

Please Lilli I need quick advice...my guy called this morning...I made a comment that I
think upset him(it was an innocent comment about handling an employee) but you know
how guys can be sensitive about things...well he abruptly got off the phone said "Gotta
go I will call you this afternoon" When he calls should I ask him if what I said upset him
or should I just act L&B and not mention it????????

Heidi,
This is the classics board, please post your question on another boad. This board is not
for advice, just for reposting.

get yourself completely together [Lili*] - 12:43pm Jan 9, 2001 EST (#785 of 839)
she is everything he has ever dreamed of. she has what turns him on. big big time.
guys want to marry girls whom they are waaaaaay attracted to. seriously, painfully
attracted to. the thought of not having her makes him die.
many girls get married who don't do The Rules.
they just, by chance or fate, get into the orbit of the guy who can't live without her.
men know right away if they want to marry you. this is why you should never date a guy
more than 18 months.
most ecstatically happy married men (who are gaga about thier wives) love to tell the
story (ovah and ovah) of how they *first* saw her. what they very *first* felt, the second
they saw her. how they *knew* they were going to marry her. how they set out to, before
even approaching her and talking to her.
how their only intention was to *win* her.
they know right away. it's visceral for men. they see her and they don't see a woman.
they see a godess. she has no equal. it is *her* and *her* alone they want.
other women are not so lucky to accidently wander into the *orbit* of the man/men who
feel this about her.
the men exist, but she never is in their orbit. maybe they are sitting at home posting
while the other woman is taking dance for klutzes class.
some women are *lucky* and get into the orbit of a guy who is so charmed by her that
she can do no wrong in the universe. I think it is luck.

get yourself completely together [Lili*] - 01:30pm Jan 9, 2001 EST (#807 of 840)
you don't have to look like cindi crawford to be a *her* to some guy. I can't count how
many times a man has told me about a *her* who is the woman of his dreams, more
beootiful than any woman on earth, and when I finally met her or saw a pichur of her,
she looked very un noticable. or she was plain or had a giant nose, thick legs, or a mole
on the end of bambi nose. her ears were different sizes or stuck out or she was a skinny
nervous wreck.
beeoty is in the eye of the beholder. everyone is someone's fairy princess they would
die to have.
[esther] - 09:50am Jan 10, 2001 EST (#100 of 321)

Hey...WATCH IT Lamppost....you just listed ALL my flaws! Hee hee!
The gestures of the air confuse all my demands [shakinglikemilk] - 12:11pm Jan
10, 2001 EST (#101 of 321)
katarina,
You said some posts back that guys know right away if they want to
marry you. Does that mean that their attraction is purely physical, and
that having the physical appearance that matches their "image of the
dreamgirl" is their only real requirement for attraction and marriage?
NO! not at *all*. they *know* when they see *her*, because they *see* her essence. it is
in her face, in her eyes, in the way she crosses the street and steps in a puddle, in the
*way* she reaches for a pear in the supermarket. the *way* she looks at it. the *way*
she buys a coke. the *way* she waits for the bus, holding her books. her essence
emanating from her every pore. it's her *her-ness*.
her spirit. something about her essence that is ineffable. that no one can copy if they
tried.
it's how she buys stamps. how she waits for the light to change. this is when men fall in
love and are struck with the knowledge she is their future wife.
it's her *look*, her spark. it's not her wieght, her measurements. it caannot be
meausured. it is beyond that.
practice just watching women on the street. stand there watching. hundreds walk by.
each one leaves a faint, wispy trail of her universe, as she goes past.
they sense her universe. it's like electro magneticly conveyed. beyond the eyes, but
comes through the eyes.
they see her for an instant, crossing the street, and they see her soul. it flickers to them.
suddenly she is more beeotiful than any woman who has longer legs, a smaller waist, a
dainty nose. these women pale next to her.
it's her *look*. they see her and they know. it's *her*!
[esther] - 01:46pm Jan 10, 2001 EST (#102 of 321)

I imagine it's kindof like how you are attracted to your real friends, just on a different
level of intensity.
Anybody can be as nice as they want to, but it doesn't necessarily mean you'll be
friends. There has to be something that bonds you together. And you can't see it.
Tom Cruise's love interest in MI2 is... [Nyah] - 09:27pm Jan 10, 2001 EST (#103 of
321)
Cool!

[Lili*] - 11:16am Jan 12, 2001 EST (#1029 of 1047)
I know that Lili says "once a guy has your phone #, STOP emailing him"
That's my current sitchuation.
my ? is... Does this still apply if the man is overseas, and may not call as much due to $
money/time difference?
when they LIKE you, they want to talk to you, not e-mail you. they *want* to hear your
voice. the conversation is more intimate to them than typing. more expressive. more
satisfying. the sensuality of your voice in their ear.
when they LIKE you, they think calling you is worth it. the trouble of getting you in, the
effort of paying the phone bill. it's all *definitely* worth it. they LOVE to call you. it's a
treat.
even guys who aren't affluent love it and do it. it's the highlight of their week.
catching you in becomes a *challenge*, (like scoring a soccer goal). challenge is what
interests men.
Can I answer any of his emails at all?
I'd say that now that he has your fone numbah, nonon! ;)
it's time to graduate. nothing but fone contact now. remembah: be hard to get.
the harder a man has to try, and the more he invests to be with you, the better he'll treat
you.
don't worry about inconveniencing (how do you spell that?!) him. women who worry
about inconvieniencing men, don't get treated that well. men are into girls and women
who inconvenience them. they are turned on by it.
or should I drop off line and the computer completely?
yes! do this. you don't have time to be checking your e-mail! you have hot dance
classes, shopping, school, parties, roller blading, books you like at the library. you're so
breathless and breezy you don't even have time to think about your e-mail. (that is what
girls who are bored, don't have dates, or who obsess do).
Also when he does call, I'm sure he is going to ask "why I did not answer his last email."
Is it okay to say LnB "mmm,ahh... ever since I downloaded the pretty pink "Hello Kitty"
screensaver, my computer hasn't worked properly"
purr-fect!!!! ")
do it, and he'll get you mor french bon bons, and maybe even a diamond ring shaped
liked hello kitty. ;)
look, at all the presents you got when you said "noh" to his european date!
guys like women and girls who deny them things.
(dates, sex, e-mail, doing favors for them) (ahem, seelah)
How does a Princess handle such a situation?
without guilt. stop thinking you aren't worth the trouble or the expense.
Tom Cruise's love interest in MI2 is... [Nyah] - 01:47am Jan 14, 2001 EST (#105 of
321)
oooooo Lampost
Tank u vera much
[happy67] - 06:41am Jan 15, 2001 EST (#106 of 321)

[Lili*] - 12:55pm Jan 12, 2001 EST (#70 of 94) My advice is if you are seriously not
enjoying your time with a man, leave gracefully, and quietly to find a better life.
don't spend your time psycho analyzing his problems. let him be himself and just live his
life.

[Lili*] - 01:00pm Jan 12, 2001 EST (#71 of 94) some of it may be an age thing. when
you get older you have a very different perspective.
what you value changes.
I think every woman knows when she is deciding to put up with bad behavior. I think it's
a desicion.
and we shouldn't blame somebody else for it.

[Lili*] - 11:49am Jan 12, 2001 EST (#61 of 94) My advice:
don't spend any time thinking about this subject. go to the Gym, instead (you will extend
your life this way) (live loooong). Go to school and sign up for a new class in something
that captures your mind. Plant spring bulbs.
Read a novel. Sign up for sky diving, scuba diving, or lessons on a climbing wall.
LiFe is for enjoying. every minute of it.
sign up for a salsa dance class, a swing dance class, a cello class, guitar class, kazoo
class, or a jazz singing class.
call your girlfriends and go shoe shopping.
All the time you fritter thinking about this stuff and focusing negatively on what is wrong
with a man, is going, really, in the wrong direction. the time can never be re-captured.
if you don't enjoy him, move on gracefully. let him be himself. move on gracefully, and
go have a happy, rich liFe.
you only live once. i'm a tellin yoo, if you keep up in this direction, when you are old, you
will look back and have pangs of regret that this is how you spent your time when you
were in your twenties/thirties/forties/fifties.
you will wonder how you could have let the precious time of your one and only life fritter
away, while you focused on this, when you could have been traveling to your dream
destination, you could have planted a spectacular dream garden (which is much more
sustaining and enlivining), you could have learned to dance, to sing, to cook the world's
best cakes, you could have written a novel or a book of best selling short stories.
You could have learned to make your own stained glass windows, or blow glass. or you
could have spent more time with your grandma and taken her out to lunch. you could
have learned a new language or learned to drive a race car. You could have read
shakespeare or obscure, Indian authors. You could have helped re-build Poland.
you could have learned to kyak, to sail, to make hand made tiles, and tile your kitchen,
make a pie crust that was flakey, learned how to make biscotti or baklava, make topiary
in your backyard, or learn to fly.
happy67] - 06:44am Jan 15, 2001 EST (#109 of 321)

[Lili*] - 12:11pm Jan 12, 2001 EST (#65 of 94)
that is what I believe now. I have noticed that if I have problem with my bf, and I spend
an hour or hours (or days or weeks) talking about it, writing about it, thinking about it
backwards and forwards, seeking other people's opinions on it, talking about their
opinions, thinking about what they said, writing to other girlfreinds about it, and then
writing down my dreams about what people said... (on and on it goes, you know!).
it is a *total* waste of time. it does not improve my romance, my day, his day, our day, or
anyone's. ;)
it does nothing.
it does nothing to improve the success of the love affair. it drains me, it makes either me
or him miserable.
it makes freinds and familee crazy. they would have prefered I bake a cake. we would
have had more fun eating it, and gazing at the dream garden we planted.
we would have had the cake hot out of the oven, with a sliver of butter on it.
we would have picked flowers for the table. we could have looked forward to fresh red
or yellow tomatoes from the garden, on our dinner table, but nooo , we were sitting
around complaining and analyzing men, overthinking things that are illogical, and should
ever remain that way. unsolved.
we could have planned our trip to Spain, and figured out how we were going to save up
for it.
we could have danced with our grandmas, while they are still able to twirl.
given them vodka and cake.
and asked them to tell us about their LiFe when they were a girl.
we would have remebered these stories forever. maybe written a book or made a film
about it.
which, in trun, someone else would watch, and love. then, they may drive to missisipi
and go see their grandma and give her a twirl and a piece of piping cake. make funny
toasts with her, over vodka or shirley temples, and someone else might see this, and
get an idea to go to sicily and visit their great grandfather, and have an adventure and
meet the love of thier LiFe.
and have a baby someone would play with and sing to.
and someone else might hear the song, and decide to drive to New Orleans to see thier
great auntie, give her vodka, and salsa, and fresh tomatoes.
Ciao CUAOs [Anya] - 03:20pm Jan 27, 2001 EST (#110 of 321)
Anymore Lili classics? : )
[Ladysharonn] - 04:20pm Jan 27, 2001 EST (#111 of 321)

I have to say that now that I have found Mr. Right I feel it was such a waist of time trying
to make all of those other relationships work! All the tears, all the nights spent in agony,
over some guy! I look back now and I know that it was all wasted energy. If you two are
right for each other the relationship will work if the relationship doesn't work you two are
not supposed to be. It took me years to learn that and when I stopped making
relationships work and just let go of the one's that where not working_BAM_ I met the
right guy!!
[JoJoB] - 08:39pm Jan 28, 2001 EST (#112 of 321)

Amen, Ladysharon...
If I had been given your advice and Lili's advice years ago, I would have had no wasted
tears, no wasted time, would've known my grandparents better before they died, and
would be a wonderful cook and gardener!
I need to print these last 2 posts, and hang them where I will see them, and readjust my
priorities.
Thank you, Lili and Lady...
[chantall] - 05:04am Feb 1, 2001 EST (#113 of 321)

these posts are from lili*

yes, men like girls who are focused on their own pleasure.
these, they consider, really nice girls.

go work out more. it changes your brain chemistry so you don't obsess. because your
brain chemistry gets different. not lying. it also changes it so you don't get angry as
much.
and, it keeps you busy. and hot. ;)
excersize bathes your brain and all your neurons in endorphins, which give you natural
happee feelings.

Even zo, my #1 priority in life, is nailpolish. He sinks i am so
generous and loving.
yes. this is how men are. the less generous & loving you are, the more they think you
are generous & loving.
they are not like us.

he's not "scared". he is not scared of *anything*. it is a cover for what is really going on.
guys who love you, Just Love You. they don't say things like that.
niether is he "confused". not about *anything*. it is a cover for what is really going on,
that he does not want to disclose.
Just Move On, whe men say either of these two phrases. Let them alone. Give them
Space All The Way To China.
That's the part I'm scared of running into him when my friends and I
are out. How do I deal w-that if the situation arises?
smile, be breezy, and nice, and keep walking.

it's not true. it is not a true sentence. when a guy szys he's "confused", end the date
quickly, smoothly, and nicely, with no hysterics.
then Ignore him for like a month. screen your calls 24/7. don't call him, don't pick up his
calls.
He said we need a break to decide what both of us want. (he's has some
other issues going on in his life too.)
when a guy says he "think we should take a break" do the above, plan, too. and work
go out a lot.
He emailed me and wanted to talk to me the other day to see how I was
doing.
IGNORE IT. Do Not Answer It. Go about your LiFe.
hang in there. but now is the time to Be Nowhere On The Planet To Be Found.

do not wear a baggy t-shirt at the gym.
do not break in femme fatale boots on a date.
ouchie.

You said men hate it when we say, "you don't care." That it really,
really upsets men. Why is that?
Because (drumrool here, pleaze)...beucuz...(pay close attention)... men are nothing like
us. They are not wired like us.
Does it upset men more than it upsets women?
Hellooo? helloh? hell-o? jell-o. HELL-O (!) (!!!).
(lol).
jell-o.
Because it wouldn't be that devastating to me if someone said that.
that is because...(drumroll please)... You Are Not a Man.
helloh.
to men, when when you say it, it shows you are 100% blind.
also, it's like poison to their ears. it is like if you say to a woman, "you look fat in that
dress" and, "have yu been putting on wieght?" and, "I want to have a menag-a-trois with
you & me & your best girlfreind, cindy. what are your thoughts on the matter?" and "I
was fantasizing about your freind cindy, when you & me were making love" and "why
don't you do prettee things with your hair like your freind bambi does?" and "are you
getting more cellulite?", all added together and rolled into one.

I dunno, Lili, it sounds like what you're saying is--and this may well
be true, I just find it kind of depressing--is that men make great
handymen and breadwinners, but it's folly to expect them to meet a
woman's emotional needs (for emotional closeness).
no, they can do that too! and they do it willingly for women who recognize the love &
admiration they are expressing in myriad Man Ways (buying country houses, fixing
thermostats).
it's when women are blind to it, or even YELL at men for thier kind of expressions, and
express constant resentment to men, and focus on what men do badly, (mainly the
unforgivable crime of not acting Like The Dream Lover of my daydream) that women
don't get the affectionate, sensitive side of them.
Urk. Aargh. But what if I don't want a handyman/breadwinner? (I mean, I
can fix my own toilet--just did!--and make a living for myself.) What I
want is a companion/"partner in crime"/lover.
you can get a more androgynous type man or feminine energy type man.
Perhaps it's hopeless.
no, it is not. but we have to stop relating to men as "things": "I want my thing to do this
this, this and this, now! my thing is not doing it!".

many men are more concrete about love. they show it with concrete things.

Do you think there are particular things a man does/says if he loves a
woman? For example, a man could fix things for you and not necessarily
love you.
no. he secretly, always loves you if he fixes things fo you.
Are there unmistakable behaviors/words of men who actually love you....
(as opposed to liking you or being dependent on you or using you as a
filler or easing his loneliness with you or wanting an intellectual
companion or feeding his ego by association with you or....well, you
get the idea.
too complex. men who really love you for *real* say things like men who love you for
*fake* do. it is all very twicky.
if a man says luv talk junk to you but nevah fixes your things, suspect the love is fake.
What does a man do if he really loves you? (I realize this may sound
like a strange question).
he Marries you.
not joking.

Lili*- Do men hate the "you don't care" comment because they really do
believe in their minds that they're doing a lot?
they do care. they are doing a lot. 2/3 of it the woman is disscounting .
(What if they *aren't* doing a lot and *aren't* showing much care?)
most likely he *is* showing he cares. and the woman, because she Only Looking For
Expression Like Women Express Things, don't see it.
Is that just a simple case, then, of "releasing him into the wild" (as
CSuzette would say) and moving on?
many men care volumes. they may not Say It In Words.
if you don't like a man, then, yes, release him back into the wild.

You said its okay to say "This isn't my thing" and leave... did you
mean in the middle of the date?
I was saying it to girls who were listening to terrible tings coming out o their men's
moths, on hanging out dates (non-dates). hanging around his apat. or her apt.
but, yes, you could leave no matter where you are. but don't leave angrily. you should
waft off, like a cool, breezy, flower. like a flower petal blowing offa a flowa in the wind.
you leave with a pleasant face & voice. no hidden anger. you just are genuinely not
interested in the topic. his topic does not offend you or *insult* you in any way. you do
not leave indignantly, or with hissing and a girl-gargoyle face.

do nothing. go to the Gym. take dance classes, music classes, hole up with a good
book.
he isn't calling for a date. no need to ansa. ;)
He's been very casual with me thus far. Should I just let it go and see
if he calls again,
yes.
or should I call him back later this week?
nope. create distance & mystery.
do nothing. go to the Gym. take dance classes, music classes, hole up with a good
book.
he isn't calling for a date. no need to ansa. ;)
He's been very casual with me thus far. Should I just let it go and see
if he calls again,
yes.
or should I call him back later this week?
nope. create distance & mystery.

Reminder: these are all lili's posts.

how do you recommend I act now that we are back?
sweet! but less available. ;)
What should I do?
Should I see him less than I did before the vac.?
slightly. yes!
He was talking about moving in together.
BLEH! lol. it is a test! do not fail by acting interested in this blah offer!
But I feel he is in the home strech and I want to keep it going.
Go To The Gym, and STOP thinking/worrying about ALL of this. It is for The Man to
worry about!

Actually I was gonna meet him later to tell him that we should stop
seeing each other.
nope. don't do it. you guys aren't boyfriend/girlfriend. so, there's no need to.
just FaDe OuT...softly...

very seriously, STOP thinking about all the minutae of dating, like this. Go To The Gym
Now.
Never think about this. Go To The Gym. sculpt your thighs. then go to Barnes & Noble
and buy a great novel. read it. forget thinking about this junk. it will lead- and I mean it-
nowhere. abandon it. go enjoy your LiFe.
I am not 100% sure but it seems like when he does ask me out for an
extra date he is hesitant because he doesn't want to be too pushy with
me.
STOP thinking about this stuff. Go about your LiFe, and enjoy it. let The Man worry
about all this. It is The Man's job in courtship, to worry about this!!

He has quite a few other issues going on in his life besides me.
none of this matters, when he finds *Her*.
I think he was hoping that having me in his life would help him get
through/over some of these issues.
he wanted you for a comfort girl.
do not be a warm blanket for guys not into you.
When he said that he needed this break it was all him, he was having
all these feelings of confusion and whatever and he said that it was
nothing to do with me.
baloooooooney. you are not his type. that is okey. a different guy wil find you. ")
he'd been really falling in love w-me and was just confused and scared.
were you sleeping with him? (if you were, he wasn't confused & scared) (guys who are
confused are too confused to unzip their pants) (guys who are scared, are too scared to
get neked).
oops one last thing, the good news is that I have two dates w-two
different guys this weekend. YEAH!
GREAT! ")
chantall] - 06:39am Feb 1, 2001 EST (#132 of 321)

do not not not write back. ;)
ignore men who aren't into you. ;)
thank goodness you did not sleep with him. maybe the ILY was a ploy to getya in
between the sheets.
when it did not work, he went looking for other warm comfort blanket girls.
better things are coming.

My boyfriend would really love to have me join the activity with him or
come as a supportive presence.
do it one weekend a month (he'll be thrilled!). the rest o' the weekendz...mmm...hmm...
(this is twicky!). I dunno...(!) lol.
maybe 1 weekend go with him, 1 weekend, make plans reagrdless of his schedule, and
the other 2 weekends do as you do now.
mix it up. lol!
variety is the spice of life.

Nooo. lol. You don't *get* it. When women fulfill men's needs (for challenge, stimulation,
space, excitement, etc.), men are eager to meet her needs. It's a reciprocal relationship
and arrangement.
Men are eager to get close to and commit to women who meet their needs happily. ;)
Women think that only what women value is the *real* things of value. Not true. And,
they resent men for being wired diffrently and for having opposite needs.
Men's opposite needs are no less important than women's.
They are equal.
A woman has a need for closeness to Feel Strong Love. A man has a need for distance
to Feel Strong Love.
A woman has a need for things being easy in courtship.
A man has a need for things to be a constant challenge in courtship.
On and on it goes. When a woman gives (lovingly and with joy & confidence, and self
assurance) to a man what he values, he gives to her what she most values. And he
does so happily, and eagerly.;)
There is no problem moving ahead to deeper and deeper comitmment and happiness.
A woman's constant insistence that a man meet her needs, while being closed minded
and wholley uninterested in understanding and meeting *his* opposite needs, is what
makes the dating or marriage relationship flop & fail.

Why women should be forever denied opportunity of giving to those they
love the most? And why do you want a man who is unable to appreciate
your giving him at least occasionally?
You don't get this at all. The whole problem is you want to give men what women want
and value. You are arguing that men should like and value what they don't like and don't
value.
You don't want to give men what men value and need. I'm saying women should give to
men. To make them happy. But give to men what they need. Not what you as a woman
decide he should want (like you want).
Women can give men rubies. By meeting their distance needs, and by meeting their
other needs for challenge and stimulation and space and good looks and confidence
and other things men value. Give to men by being receptive and feminine and
appreciative of their doing.
Give to man what he values.
What men value is vastly different than what women value. And, what they need, in
order to be fulfilled, is vastly , worlds away from what women need in order to be
fulfilled.

Men LIKE women who are mostly focused on pleasing themselves.
The woman who has a fight with her bf and then sits home all weekend, waiting by the
phone for his call to have a long talk, will never do as well as the woman who has a fight
with her bf and then thinks, "what would make me feel really good this weekend?" and
then proceeds to go DO IT. (skydiving, scuba diving, going to the gym, going to a spa
with her best gfs).
She must train herself to be more selfish and more absorbed in her own happiness.

"She must train herself to be more selfish and more absorbed in her own
happiness." Yes! She must train herself to be more like him!
Ah, I totally disagree with this! Men are not selfish and absorbed in their own happiness.
They LIVE to make women happy. They LIVE to give to women and to please women. It
is their deepest joy in life. Men are *centered* on pleasing women. John Gray explains
this, and so does Herb Goldberg. So does Patricia Allen.
Men are not jerks. Men are very loving and very, very eager to please. When they meet
women who who will *let* them.
They'd give anything to a woman to make her happy.
Men want to give to women who want to recieve. Men don't want to give to women who
want to give to them to win them. When the biology is all reversed, and backward, the
beauty of the true natural arrangement gets derailed.
Go watch the nature channel. All of you. lol. obey me now and agree with everything I
say, or I will post all night. lol. haha.

They WANT the one who does not accomidate.
That is THE ONE they want. And this, by the way, is why WUMTHS *works* so well on
men. WHY they looove it.
Men loooove women who do not and will not accomidate them. And who are *not*
scared of not accomidating them. And who don't give a rat's hiney if he leaves if she
doesn't accomidate him. They LOVE the girl who is *not* scared to not accomidate, and
who doesn't bat an eyelash if he leaves over this.
That is THE ONE they want.
(not that anyone has to switch to WUMTHS. I'm just explaining, as an aside, one reason
why men are very impressed by these girls.)
Men are very impressed by women who do not accomidate them.
They feel stimulated and challenged by her.
MEN LIKE A CHALLENGE. ( Where have we heard this before?)

I pilfered this from another board:
A guy friend e-mailed me these lines/jokes...
What do you do if your boyfriend walks out? Close the door.
THIS is what I want lynria to get. lol. THIS is being a dreamgirl. ")

This is a fascinating story. lol. I love it. post more! post more!
So, I say to this guy, "you know she is a b*tch, why are you thinking
of marrying her?" He says, "because she is nice to me sometimes." LOL!
=) (evil grin)
By the way, this guys is very handsome, nice, makes good money and owns
his own house. She is cute but he even thinks she could loose a little
weight.
It is the attitude of "I'M ALL THAT", that makes him gaga for her. ;)
Girls, take note. ;)
Also, she is not *threatened* at all with the prospect of him leaving her. This is exactly
what Sherrie & Ellen say. That is why I gave the advice I did to lynria. I gave her the
exact same advice. She better take it too, or she will be in trouble with me!
It is all about being self-assured, non-accommodating and more concerned about
yourself than him.
This is what 90% of the women on the boards *don't* get. This is why they have to read
the 2 chapters I told them to read *every* single night. But, they won't do it. (chapters 11
& 17 from Mars & Venus on a Date)
Men love it.
I KNOW! I KNOW! lol.
That is 75% of the recipe for being a dreamgirl. hello.
HELLO! Is *anybody* listening? lol.

Reminder: all these posts are from lili.
lynria is a fictional name to protect privacy.

How do I handle it if he does ask her out?
Smile, and say, "o.k., great, have fun! look, I have to run- I have a tennis class/salsa
class/party/shoes are on sale at MACY'S, I'm going with Darci, to go see! mmwah! got
to run!"
Never have a relationship talk or talk about your feelings of how hurt or humiliated you
are, or he will think, "She's a drag. Got to get away from her. What a loserchick, I
wonder what Cheri (your girlfreind) is doing right now? I wonder if she is sunbathing on
her balcony...what is she wearing? I wonder if she has that cute little pink bikini on...I
wonder if she has a date this Saturday night...I wonder if I could get her to go out with
me (on and on and on)".
If you act happy & carefree, like it didn't phase you at all , he will LIKE you more and
think you are more attractive, suddenly. Because this is how a Dreamgirl would act upon
hearing the news. She could care less. She has other and better prospects than him, so
many that it doesn't phase her, and she hardly even notices his dopey decisions. A
minute after he's announced to her he wants to date her girlfreind, she's thinking,
"mmm...I'd sure like to go to the spa in Cancun...I wonder if Bambi would like to go...Oh!
I know! Maybe Bambi and I and Lola can all go in Bambi's new Miada! What would I like
to wear there? mmmm...Oh! I know! I'll wear my little lime green dress!...I wonder if
Paulo will be there...or Enrico...what CDs would I like to listen to in the car, on the way
down...I'll go pick out my CDs for the ride down...this is going to be so fun! I'm going to
have a great time. mmmm.".
This is what she is thinking. She is not thinking, "I am so hurt. How could he? What is
wrong with me? Am I fat? Was it something I said/did/wore? What does she have that I
don't? How am I going to cope with seeing them in my building? Should I write him a
long, angry letter? I'm going to go home and cry all day and write him ten, angry letters.
How can I get him back? Should I confront him? Maybe I should call him and ask him to
meet me at Starbucks and confront him with my feelings (on and on, one stupid thought
after the next, in endless succesion)".
I think I blew it from the start with him - how did I let it get like
that?
After he asked The Question, did you ever go on a date with him again? If you did, you
have done the dumbest thing in the universe. You have sent him the world's biggest
signal that you are a dormat type girl and not a dreamgirl type girl.
After he asked The Question, you should have so sweetly turned him down for dates
*every* time he called and you should have screened your calls and never picked up his
calls, and act happy and light & breezy if he ever accidently got you on the phone.
Men Want The Dreamgirl Type.
This type *knows* She Is All That. All of her actions and reactions show it. ;)

Why wouldn't a guy understand why a girl likes him if he is treating
her poorly-why would he think she is weird???
This is a nonsensical question. I can't believe you asked it.
Guys *hate* girls who still like them when they treat them terrible. They think those
women are whacko. period.

The reason you shouldn't say all that stuff to him is because it communicates, "I have
low self esteem"- to men . It sounds illogical. But it is true.
Dreamgirls don't ever say these things. Why? Because dreamgirls have super high self
esteem. When they don't like the way they are treated they lose interest . Very naturally
and very automatically.
Having that talk is chasing a man with your interest. It says- to men - "You treated me
badly and I am SO interested in you. Give me more of your attention by listening to this
talk". It also says- to men - "I want to engage with you. You interest me. I want more and
more of you".
This is what men hear when women talk about stuff like you are thinking of talking
about. They don't hear the words or the topics or complaints. Their animal brain just
registers, "I don't treat her that great and she is really interested in me. Weird".
Dreamgirls don't sit around thinking of what to say in these talks and how to present
their complaints to the men they are dating. Because, it takes a lot of interest to do that.
And a dreamgirl, when she doesn't like how she's treated Stops Being Interested in the
guy.
So, it would never even occur to her to pursue him with a conversation like this.
Men and women are not wired the same. They do not think the same. A woman will
think, "Oh, I'm just communicating, and *I'm* standing up for myself and showing *my*
self esteem by having this talk and demanding he treat me differently and complaining
to him about his behavior". Whereas men think, "I know I'm not treating her that great.
She is really really interested in me. She is a whacko.".
They don't hear the message of pride that the woman - and only the woman - hears,
and thinks she is conveying.
It always backfires. Because Men Are Not Wired Like We Are.
To men a woman expresses her high self esteem by automatically losing interest in any
men who don't treat her the very best.
She expresses her self worth by her disappearance, and her absence of close, personal
engagement.
The Rules work, because they teach women how to mimic the behaviors of women with
high self worth, who actually lose interest in those men who don't court them very well.
The rUles teach women how to mimic the *unfelt* loss of interest, that comes naturally
to dreamgirls.

(butterfly rose also posted this in post #68.)

He is a little whiney about the e-mail thingy. If he wants more of you, why is he e-mailing
you and not asking you for more dates instead?
Some guys like to get a LOT of attention from women in the form of e-mail. They are
used to tons of women e-mailing them (even while they are dating someone
exclusively), and giving them attention and pursuing them (women do this everywhere).
They get used to it. They think it's normal. They think if you don't do it, something is
wrong. But, the fact that yu don't do it is *why* he is dating you.
If you actually did it, he would treat you more blah and blah. He would go lukewarm. lol.
men don't like women who pursue them.

There's nothing wrong with telling your guy your preferences, when he Asks.
If a guy asks me, "What kind of restaurant do yu prefer?", I tell him what some of my
favorite food ethinicites are...so he isn't working in the dark.
You can state a preference, for movies, too. "I like comedies!" or, "mmm, oh, I love
thrillers!".
Give a guy something to work with. He WANTS to please you. Remember this. ;)
Your guy is just real used to non-rules women chasing him and taking the lead and
gushing on him.

Just say, "I'm not that into e-mail". then don't go on. Be happy. Forget it.

It's weird because I no longer sit around and ask guys for details
about their life. I don't act interested and focused on them... and
they LIKE IT!!
Yes. This is because...drumroll please...MEN ARE NOT WIRED LIKE WE ARE.
lol.
If they were, we wouldn't like them so much.
It's amazing how men chase you around when you don't sit and listen to
their every little whiny problem and go on with your own life.
It's very true. Ahhhh. Ooooh lah lah....fan me some more, Eduardo...no, a little more to
the left...ahhhhhhhhh...
lol.
I'd say that is the number 1 mistake women make with men (along with a the other one
thousand mistakes women make with men). I'd say 90% of women on the boards *don't
get this*.
When a man tells you his problems (I'm talking a guy or a date- not a husband), lose
interest so fast. Suddenly, cheerfully interupt, and say, "shoes are on sale at MACY'S!
Sheri and I are going to go see, after she takes me for a ride in her new Miada".
They will FALL ALL OVER YOU. they will WORHSIP THE GROUND YOU WALK ON.
But 99% of women on the boards are too scared to do it. Scaredy cats, scaredy cats.
They think it's *rude*. They don't get that because men aren't wired like we are , they
find it attractive. They find it exciting , they find it stimulating.
Men LIGHT UP when women do this, and they will chase this woman to the ends of the
earth.
They light up because they think she is a dreamgirl, when she does this. Dreamgirls in
movies always do this. They nevah listen. They smile catlike, stroke their hair, their eyes
wander , they walk off, with a sexy walk, and go do something to please themselves,
like swim in a cool lake, or accept a gardenia from a stranger and put it in their hair.
When a man starts talking about his problems, the first thought in her mind is,
"mmm...what would make me feel good right now?" Not, "mmm...what would make him
feel good right now?".
She thinks, "mmm...maybe a cool iced mint tea, mmm...and a pinapple. Yes, I love that
dress I saw in the window the other day at MACY'S...ooooh, I could wear it on my date
with Eduardo (Eduardo is a guy who doesn't talk about his problems on dates with
her)...it would make me feel good. I wonder if Cheri would like to go to Brazil with me for
a little trip next week, that would feel...mmm...so good to me...."
Blah, blah, blah, her thoughts go, as he talks about his boss, his ex wife, his
commitment phobias. Her mind wanders . Her thoughts go on and on and on, about
what she would like , not what he would like.
This is the woman men MUST have.

Be Nowhere On The Planet To Be Found. 24/7. For a month. 30 days.
Unplug your answering machine. More mysterious. Never call him. Get caller ID if you
want to obsess on how often he's trying to call you. ;)
Don't go see him as scheduled. Don't call or write to explain it. Girls with low self
esteem do that. ;)
Then, when he accidentaly gets you in, say a month from now , tell him sweetly that you
don't want to stay exclusive. Keep it real short!
Then, go to raquetball or salsa class. Forget the conversation.
Trade your tickets for an exciting girlfriend vacation, like Club Med. And GO.
DON'T BE A CHICKEN.
THIS is what men respect and are attracted to.
Get Mars & Venus On a Date, and read the capter The Dynamics Of Male and Female
Desire every single night, before you go to bed.
Read, and re-read the parts about "active interest vs. receptive interest", because you
will forget it as soon as you read it. Because it is *so* hard for you to understand.
The concepts in that chapter are THE most important concepts for a woman to get, if
she is dating a man.
If she doesn't get them, she will fall on her face, and get kicked around, felt on, and
shoved into cabs.

What if he asks me if I would be able to drive up to see him on
Saturday?
If he asks you in person, ignore it. Or smile and then ignore it. (dreamgirl)
If he asks you via e-mail, don't answer it. (dreamgirl)
If he asks you on the telphone, say, a soft, "noh". ;) (dreamgirl)
You don't have to explain. Only women with low self esteem explain.
Or say what S & E say to say:
1) "Oh gosh, that sounds fun. Gee, I wish I could, but I just can't get away"
2) "Oh, gosh, I'd *love* to, but things are hectic, oh gosh, no I can't".
If you say you are *uncomfortable* he will think you have low self esteem and are overly
anxious and overly seroius and not self assured and centered in your feminity.

I'm confused ... I thought we were supposed to act nice and sweet
around men.
Yes, we are the nicest, sweetest you know whats. ;)
we are you know whats in that men have to *work* for our attention. We only give our
attention to men who give us their best.
If a man giving us not-his-best pursues us, we are *ever* so hard to get a hold of. ;)
Where is she? WHERE is she? Where did she go? WHO is she out with? Is she seeing
someone else, Harry? *HOW* could she forget me that fast?
lol. ;)
So where does the b----y stuff come in? Is that just by not returning
calls etc., and occasionally turning men down for dates -- or are we
supposed to be mean?
We are mean, mean, sweetie pies. ;)
He makes one bad move, makes us cry even *one* tear, and suddenly, for some odd
reason we cannot remember his name.

She told me I need to stay nice, but develop more of an edge, an
attitude that screams confidence.
And then she told me this: A month after she and her fiance started
dating, he said to her. "I dont know why Im dating you, You are such a
B*TCH!"
I NEED to read posts like this. =)

Abandon your fears. Then men will see you as a *goddess*.
Do all the terrible things you are scared of. Don't ansa the phone. lol.
Disappear, when a man who treats you lukewarm, calls to say he's going to be late for a
date. Go To The 24 hr. gym! Don't delay! Take a late night aerobics class. Sign up for a
personal trainer, named Mario. ;)
Or be like Seashell, and transform yourself into a a sexy, latin dancing godess. She has
tranformed herself, in the time she has been on the Rules board. She has a LIFE.
She is now a hot, mysterious woman, skilled in exotic forms of latin dancing and culture.
She has allure. Mystique. She Dares To Be Uncommon. And to live out her secret,
feminine dreams.
Do anything but the ordinary. If he calls to say he's running late for the ho-hum date, go
out to a pool hall, and sign up for pool lessons. You will meet lots of men learning pool.
Just do ANYTHING, but be a common, everyday, ordinary, overly considerate, insecure,
dime-a-dozen nice girl. ;)

It is an unconscious test.
The test is this:
Is She A Dreamgirl or a Boring Ordinary Girl?
the test is aka:
Is She a Dreamgirl or a Dime a Dozen Girl?
It is a Pass/Fail test.
Depending on how you respond to their tests, is how they categorize you. It is a
categorization process.
Men do it all day, every day, with all women they date.
They cannot stop it. It imposssible. It is biological.
The most important and intense period of testing, is at the begining of dating.
It is crucial that a woman not fail the tests, and they will come fast and furious, at the
begining of a dating relatioonship.
If she does fail them, he will never see her the same.
It is very hard to move into the other category, if you try to do it later.
Very, very hard. Men tend to stick with their initial catgegorization of you. It will become
imbedded in their neurons.
Instantly.

I think most of what you're saying is on target, but don't you think
it's rude to disappear entirely?
Obviosly not! lol. IT IS REFRSEHING TO MEN. They liiiiiiike it. lol.
Only women think it's *hurtful* and take it seriosly. Men don't. They feel challenged by it.
;)
I don't want to repay rudeness with rudeness.
Ohhhhh. I see! YOU want to repay rudeness with *kindness*. lol.
There is no bettah way to respond to the rude. It is the language they understand. ;)
The Rude, *respect* this response. ;)
'Getting late' was more of a reference to needing to get work done
since...
Stop, stop, stop! Do not complain about it *being late*. Do not tell men you are spending
your prime date years evenings getting some work done. nonononon!
I'd gotten home late the night before from going out to dinner (didn't
say with whom).
Good. Mystery. Good. =)
Okay... mystery coming up. I shall be mystery woman.
lol.
New question -- do I answer the phone if he calls tonight to see why I
wasn't at there?
OF COURSE NOT. lol. Oh, grasshopper, you have much to learn, in the ways of men-
fu. lol.
If so, the answer is that I had 'other plans,' right?
Don't ansah. ;)
Get your girlfriends and go see a great movie. See, in fact, a double feature! lol.
Or round up your girlfriends and go to the 24 hour gym, in tights and jump around and
sweat hard, and make your bodies into the bodies of *goddesses*, so you can make
even *more* men fall at your feet. ;)
USE YOUR TIME CONSTRUCTIVELY.
BTW-- I initially was good (dreamgirl) category. If I moved to not so
dreamy, is it possible to revert?
It is HARD but not impossible. Only those willing to do dramatically different things, can
move crossover into the other category. Most women are too chicken or spineless.
If you are willing to do dramatic things, and you are not scared to, then there is hope. ;)

Eventually we met for a drink. I never heard from him again. In
retrospect, I don't think I gave off a dreamgirl vibe at all. I gave
off a very casual, no-expectations good for now vibe.
Exactly. My point exactly.
MEN WANT WOMEN THEY HAVE TO WORK HARD FOR. period.

WHY would you date a guy who has lied to you in the past?
If you date a guy who lies to you, you get (drumroll, please)...a guy who lies to you.
If you don't want a guy who lies to you , don't date them.
When my bf wandered off into talk about the ex I said "You know shoes
are on sale at Macy's." It's perfect.
You said it?! Haha! What did he do? Did you then get in your Miada, and zoom off to go
look at the shoes? (this is important!). ;)

So you wouldn't respond if a man emailed you after having a first date
with you (an online guy).
What I would do is not even open it.
A *man* (spelled m-a-n) will call, if you ignore it.
The second best thing to do (if yu cannot discipline yourself not to open their e-mails) is
to reply (but not right away!) (wait 48 hrs.!), with nothing but a smile face. Or, a
"Sounds fun!" ;)
LESS IS MORE WITH MEN.
Best not to answer. If you want to seperate the men from the boys. If you dn't care about
seperating them, answer all e-mails.
I, personally, want to know what a man is made of. ;)
A couple of times, I've had men email me the next day and say, "Had a
wonderful time, I'd love to see you again." Why are they emailing me?
Chicken. They are chicken to telephone. Chicken of rejection. Or, they just feel casual
about you.
Also -- what do you do if a man you haven't met (he got your name from
a personal - but not one with your picture) calls you and leaves a
message with his number. Would a RG call back -- since the rules
haven't officially started -- or would you see if he calls again?
Call him. Say, "I was just heading out the door, but wanted to say a quick "hi"!" Then
GO!

BTW - that doesn't mean accepting a date by email!! Just send a smiley
or a hi, and they should know to follow up by phone. However, with no
response at all, many guys will assume you aren't interested.
I disagree. When she doesn't answer an e-mail, most men think She Has a Life. She
isn't constantly, frantically, checking her e-mail. She is Too Busy. I wonder who she is
going out with? I wonder if he is better than me? I wonder if I could get her attention? I
wonder if she would go out with me? Where IS she? She's probably out with some rich,
buff guy, on a yacht. I wonder what kind of car he has? I wonder how many guys she
dates? Is she at the beach? Where IS she? I wonder what she is wearing at the beach?
And who is with her? When is she coming back? When is she going to come home and
check her e-mail? Maybe I should call her? I wonder what time she'll get in?
On and on it goes, in mens' minds...

He emailed me today and wanted to know if I wanted to get together this
weekend in the city...what should I do?
Do Nothing.
If you are interested in him Do Nothing.
Casually e-mailing you for a casual beach house hanging out, in a casual manner, does
not indicate serious interest or attraction.
He should be telephoning you for a date. A formal date. If it is a first date.
He should be risking calling you on the phone and getting rejected.
The way women seperate the men from the boys is to ignore e-mail date invites. I have
told women this before. One woman I told to ignore her suitor's e-mail date invite is now
*blissfully* married to the man. She was a Rules board girl. Her handle was "AllyGirl".
If you respond to his casual, off hand, e-mail date inviatation, he will think you are wierd.
Yes, I know, even though he sent it (!).
He does not actually want you to respond to this. If you do respond, he will be
disappointed. Because, it will alert him that you are not a dreamgirl.
Because, a dreamgirl wouldn't even notice the e-mail date invitation. If she accidently
did notice it, she wouldn't respond. She is busy dating other men who treat her less
casually. She doesn't really notice men who treat her casually.
If you answer his e-mail invite, you put yourself in the category of *just another ordinary*
girl. They are a dime a dozen. These are girls who actually get *excited* to get an e-mail
invitation.
He asked you to the beach house thing like he would ask a freind hey, pass him the
nachos. yawn.
Dreamgirls don't even notice these kinds of invites.
Once you *totally* ignore the e-mail invitation, he will start to *wonder* about you, and
wonder who else you seeing, and about if you might actually *be* a dreamgirl. He will
feel stimulated, and excited that you didn't answer. He will feel challenged.
You become a *challenge*. This is what guys want. It is their biology.
His attraction and his estimation of you will go *up*, not down, if you ignore it.
Print this out. Put it in a 3 ring binder, along with the other things I will tell you. ;)

I've done crazy calling (5-6 times one night) in the past but stopped
for good and have told him recently that the reason I did is because
I'm getting mixed signals -- not insecure about myself, but confused
about what our relationship (I don't use this word) is...
Never do "crazy calling", no matter WHAT you're feeling. Learn to discipline yourself.
Because it totally turns off men, and they will start to mistreat you. It's male biology. It's
nothing personal.
When I got there with a couple of friends, he waved then excused
himself to talk to other people and didn't return...
You are not his dreamgirl.
If he is pursuing *other* girls in front of you, forget him.
I decided I'd rather know, so when he was nearby warming up for v-ball
(the other gal moved her blanket closer to the court), I asked him for
a minute and then told him he should have told me if he were going to
be on a date...
Never do this. ever. Honey, I'm not joking.
NEVER do this. Ignore him.
MEN DON'T LIKE WOMEN WHO FOCUS ON THEM.
Dreamgirls never act like this, and walk up to him, and ask him questions like that. They
NEVER do. All men want a dreamgirl.
Get this concept now. Men do not want the open and honest girl. The girl showing all
her cards and all her feelings, the girl who is focused on him, pursuing him, while he is
ignoring her.
I made it l&b and said he makes me crazy..
Never ever say that.
Problem .. other than playing v-ball with me, he didn't spend any more
time with me for the next three hours...
He didn't want to. Leave him alone. Ignore him.
I get frustrated about his hot and cold behavior and I have no
patience...
Just keep busy and don't pursue him.
You pursue him too much. When a woman pursues a man, it turns him off. He looses
interest in her.
I'm seeing him tomorrow night (he's coming to my place, which is a
change, since we got casual too fast) and am trying to work on
strategy...
Cancel the "hang out" date. Vey, very sweetly. Call and say, on his machine, "Gee, I'm
sorry, I just can't make our date. Sorry! I have to run".
but I want to let him know that he has to treat me better...
Do what *I* say, and he will. Do what you're doing, and you'll be crying and posting for
months on end.
Can I say several nice things and then tell him if he doesn't shape up
I'm out?
NO! Dreamgirls never do this.
When dreamgirls don't like the treatment they are getting, they lose interest.
They float off.
It gets hard for the man to get her attention.
So I want to let him know I'm interested and I like him but that I
don't like his behavior..
Don't. If you do not "like his behavior", you don't actually like him. His behavior is him.
And, don't rush to explain to a man that you are interested and that you like him!
We've had too many where is this going discussions...
He is the only one who should be instigating them.
though, and I'd rather try to make this one comment (actually 3 -- call
even if to say you aren't feeling like talking, make the occasional
date, and treat me affectionately in public)
Don't tell men what to do. don't order them to give you attention and affection. They will
think you are whacked, and no matter what their initial attraction, they will totally turn off
to you. And, they will treat you worse. 100% garaunteed.
I read TR board all last week when trying not to call (he eventually
did on Friday) and it was a great help...
Read the Books, too!

When men ask, "How's your love life?".
Be mysterious.
Smile but don't answer.
Men like women who don't answer all their questions. When a woman answers all of a
man's questions, factually, men don't feel she is mysterious and alluring.
They feel she is ordinary. They just do. It's just a fact. It's something biological, deep
inside men. They cannot control this part of themselves, and it is nothing personal.
If you want a man, give him mystery.

What do you say when a guy you like asks 'So, how's your love-
life'??????
You smile slowly, and you wink. ;)
You Don't Say Anything.
This is how DREAMGIRLS act.
All Men Want a DREAMGIRL.
That is WHAT they are looking for.

Reminder: these are lili's posts.

I had a quick question about a long distance guy. When he asked me when
he should come over and see me (he lives in another country)...I said I
didn't know..He said that I wasn't helping him (very observant of him).
Does anyone have any ideas about how to handle this stuff?
Say, flirtily, "mmmm...not sure. Can you hold on a sec? I've got to go get some ice tea!".
I'm Not Joking. You have to act not that interested. But always flirty & happy. flirty &
happy, flirty & happy, flirty and happy.
Go into the kitchen and spend a longish amount of time there. I'm Not Joking. Happily.
DON'T WORRY ABOUT HOW MUCH THE CALL IS COSTING. He should be angsting
about it, not you. ;)
When you come back, say something breezy. Act unconcerned with the question &
topic.
Cheerily introduce another, happy, spontaneous topic. Like, "I just started raquetball
classes!".
I'm Not Joking.
This is WHAT attracts men.
Period.
Women Don't understand men. At all!
We left it open and that he would get back to me to find out about
flights?
You are not a travel agent. He has to do all the work himself. The MAN has to do all of
the planning, all of the arranging, getting all of the ticket info without the woman's help.
Was I on the right course...my usual inclination would have been to
help him out...Any comments?
If you do the, flirty, happy, "mmm...not sure. Hold on a sec! I'm going to get some iced
tea...", stay in the kitchen a long time, (you can hum or sing, cause you're a happygirl),
then come back and spontaneously introduce a happy new topic, and he statrts asking
you again when he should come, just say (again), "mmmm...not sure!".
I'm Not joking. You don't have to say any other words.
THIS is what WORKS with men.
Men WANT A CHALLENGE. A woman who is happy & flirty, has a full life and is not
FOCUSED on him or what he is doing/ is going to do, is THE DREAMGIRL he wants.
Period.
Women don't get men.

Now, I just sit at home depressed doing nothing, because if I do what I
am good at, men won't like me, and if I am passive, it goes against my
nature and I have zero fun doing any of it.
Have you read yet Patricia Allen's Book Getting To I Do?
I can't remeber. You should read or re-read it. I think you should get happily married and
be loved. You continue to be yourself, and you attract the more nurturing type of energy
man. The more androgynous type. She calls them "feminine energy" type men. But that
is unfortunate that she calls them that.
They are fine men. Great men. And hot men.
Go and get you one. After reading her step by step instructions in her book.
Men who want to date yah. ;)

I need some help on what to say to get off the phone! I don't know why
this is a problem for me. Especially at night. I always say I have to
take a shower or get up early. I say this way too much. Any
sugestions??
Say, "It's ben great talking to you and I have to go now and get my Beauty sleep" flirtily.
Or, "I have just drawn a hot bath, and it's time to get in". ;)
This tantalizes them. ;) One of my secret tricks. It's better that a man's last thoughts of
you are of you neked, than of you paying bills. ;)
Or, do what I do. I rarely answer calls late at night for this very reason. Too hard to get
off. They Know you aren't going anywhere.
Answer them early in the evening. Creates more *intrigue*. You always are on your way
out (to dance class, the gym, dinner, mysterious places). ;)

Never talk to him on the computer. Never chat. never e-mail. Not if you want a man.
As *hard* as it is to stop doing it- Just Stop. Men won't date you if you computer talk all
the time. It's how men are.
If he asks why you don't hang out with him and cmputer talk anymore, say the following:
"I've been doing some fun, new things, and I'm not on the computer that much
anymore!" Then, change the subject.
This is the ONLY thing that works with men.
Sherrie & Ellen would would whip you if they knew how much you talk to him on the
computer.
Do you want to date him in person or not?! If you want to go on *real* dates, then Stop
It!

Men get *bored* of you when you talk to them on the computer all the time. That's why
they don't call you on the telephone and ask you for normal dates.
Men get *bored* of you when you always accessible. Because, then you stop being a
Challenge.
If You Want a Man Be a Challenge.
And, be it now. ;)

All of you girlies get to the gym! Right now! Get Your Bag and GO! Stop this nonsense.
And stop it now!
Stop it because PBT causes crows feet. And, it causes cellulite.

You don't say anything.
You turn him down, sweetly for dates, the next two or so times he calls to ask you out.
You don't call him, you don't return his calls, and you leave your answering machine on
all the time, and don't pick up the phone when he calls.
You don't do any of this angrily.
You become harder to get! ;) You're never home! You're always at aerobics. =)

I agree she should pull back, but to really make the point (and make it
stick) he needs to know that hands down, his behavior is NOT
acceptable.
Yea, but I think the feminine way you do that is by sweetly not being available,
disappearing to enjoy other people and other things, and being more unattainable and
happy.
And then you pull back o show you really mean business.
Yeah, we do disagree. I'm not into scolding men and I don't think it's neccesary.
If you know ow to handle men, I don't believe you *ever* have to.
KNOWING he screwed up and then the prospect of having blown it for good
should be enough of a wake up call that he'd never do it again.
My take is if he's showing that much blatant interest in another woman on a date with
me, I can take a hint that I'm not That Super Super important to him. I'd (easier said
then done) wince, accept it, and give him space galore (to the moon). With grace. And
start to think about becoming open to other men's attentions. To get the best deal I
could get for myself.
IMO, you give a guy notice ONE time. after that, if i continus, you
know he's not being respectful and doesn't care. Therefore, next. But I
mean this in context of having dated a number of times or being
exclusive.
It's a toss up. I see your point. I think it's just a style thing with me. I would not scold or
warn. I would do something different.
I think scolding men turns them off. And is unnecasry (how the heck do you spell that
word?).

I'd say tell him, "I like to take it slow and just have fun" and "I think you're nice" and "I'm
having a nice time with you now" and "It's fun getting to know you".
DOn't say anyhitng stronger than, "gosh, you're nice". ;)

Sherrie and Ellen say for long distance you can talk for 20 minutes per call.
But you have to end the conversation first.

When men LIKE you they don't care what your policy is. They will do WHATEVER *you*
want.

Never answer his calls again. Put the answering machine on 24/7. Never accept
another date. Ever.
Men either want you or they don't. No man who wants you will stand you up for a date.
period.
Move On.

Basically, If he doesn't stick to you like a barnacle, As Soon As He Meets You, and
chase you immediately, like you are The Best Thing On The Planet, and chase you
relentlessly, and move QUICKLY to remove all other guys from your orbit, Forget Him.
He will not be a man who Loves You and Marries You.
Look Elsewhere.
Don't be afraid to do it (nowhere to be found on the planet), because Men Don't Think
It's Rude (women do)
Men don't experience it as rude. What they think is, "I better claim her now, before I lose
her. ohmyg-d! I wonder if I'm too late. I wonder if she will be interested. I wonder who
she's seeing. Damn! I should have done more to win her. I wonder what I can do to win
her. I hope I can win her".
Not Joking. Men Are Not Wired Like We Are.
Men Like A Challenge. So BE ONE.

If they are doing something you don't like, then don't pay attention to them. Go get your
nails done.
Not Joking.

What I do is just focus on activities. Do things- don't *think* things: work out, garden,
wash your car.
The more you try to think your way out of the maze, the worse it gets. lol.
Just get busy with something. Anything mindless. like ironing clothes. Then iron your
sheets. then your towels. lol.
I find ironing helps me iron out my thoughts. it's soothing. It de-confuses everything.
haha.

But what I learned here and through other books, is how to understand
men. They don't really want someone to take care of them. That is what
women want. Women want sympathy and understanding, men are not really
impressed. I thought OK don't give up hope April, things are working,
and I am one CUAO! *smile*. Got to go!!
Yes! That's what I keep telling girls, and they *won't* listen to me! I'm so thrilled you had
this epifany!
guys aren't *into* girls who are all interested in their problems. They like girls who aren't
that interested in thier problems. ;) Girls with A LIFE.

Men Are Not Wired Like We Are
They thrive on Inattention.
Women thrive on attention.
Men Are Not Wired Like Us. We thrive on shoes. They thrive on Inattention.
Inattenton is what they *thrive* on. It makes them LOVE you.
They are not wired like us.

(above is a variation of post #35.)
(((((((cajungurl))))))))
He is not The One. He is an imposter. A decoy duck.
We wil wrap you in bandages and chicken soup.

Get thee to a gym. Work that body! You are a g-ddess! A G-dd-Ess!
Your body is a temple.
(don't analyze the day away about what he said/did/said/did/meant).
Rule The Earth with that body. Go to the GYM.

That's why I decided that *for me* (not for everybody) the only policy I would have is a
One Strike And You Are Out Policy.
A Have a Gun Go To Prison policy. lol.
(you do not get *any* second chances)
But that's because I'm too tender to take someone back, after they walk on me. No way
can I get *over* it.
So, why should I?
lol. =)
I am the queen. Can't touch this. ;-)

If your man is telling you something you don't want to hear, don't pay rapt attention!
It's so easy!
(I'm not reeeeal interested in what intriguing French bambi said to you the other day- lol!
I'm more interested in hearing about how fine I am, and how blue my eyes are, and how
squsihy they make him feel inside, when they sparkel.)
lol.
(she looks at her watch, slicks on some lipstick, and starts brushing her hair really
fast...)
"ohmyg-d! Where did she go!?"
"I can't *find* her, henry, I've looked everywhere. Is she *seeing someone else*?"
"where is she now?! I called and called...ohmyg-d! where is she?!"
lol.
That Is The One They Want.

I told Whisper the same thing, and as soon as she took my advice and *stopped paying
rapt attention* to her man's mish mash (that's what I call it) (man mish mash), he was
spontaneously *cured* of it. His mish didn't mash her. lol. it was gone! voila!
He worshiped her when she stopped *paying rapt attention* to man mish mash. Guys
LIKE girls who yaaaaaawn....about mish mash. Girls who go get their tennis racket and
slick on some lipstick, and start brushing thier hair really fast. ;)
They think *those* girls are cool. ;)
Reminder: these are lili's posts.
whisper and cajungurl are different names to protect privacy.

Another way to look at it is that I broke up with M. because I refused
to listen to his PBTing about marriage.
Yeah, but you don't have to be *heavy* about it (to them). Be light. Not Joking. Guys Do
*not* like "heavy" (heavy/moody/broody/angry/hurt).
They like girls who brush their hair and go run off to tennis, looking hot.
Another way to look at it is to say I hung up with KS because I refused
to listen to his PBTing about WUMTHS.
Too heavy. All you have to do is say, "okey, fine. Look, I was just rushing out".
I understand that is your style--perfection, not progress. I'm glad
that works for you.
grasshopper, grasshopper, you have been *too* stuck on the problem of allowing men
to treat you this nutty. They Do What Women Show Interest In.
(it really is funny when you get it's only man mish mash) (it becomes way less scawey
then)
I think you are not light and breezy enough with yaow men! That's what you need to
practise. You give them the rope to hang you. Buy showing rapt atention to man mish
mash.
They go, "oh, she likes mish mash. I'll give her more mish mash".
Don't *show interest* in mish mash. (otherwise known as Ball O Confusion)

You have to act like this twicky boy tawk is Not A Heck Of a Lot Interesting to you.
This is what Sherrie or Ellen would teach you.
Guys don't treat women well, when women show interest in this stuff.
The more interest you show (and you show a lot), the more and more bad behavior the
guys dish out.

I am right now Nowhere On The Planet To Be Found. (lol!) (men love it!) (it fixes all
tricky bad behavior!) (it's like RAID) (lol!) (gets rid of PESTS) (lol!)
MEN ARE cHARMED BY IT. they are *insane*. lol! (that's why we love them).
(if only they could find me. lol! "where is she!? ohmyg-d!" (lol!) "where did she go!?" )lol!)
"she never answers the phone!" LOL!
"where IS she?!"
lol!
lol!

Hugabug, you tawk to them too much! (and too often!).
MACY'S IS HAVING A SHOE SALE, HUGABUG! (men should always know that you
find this more interesting than "maybe the real issue is my fear of blah blah" (LOL!)
LOL!!! LOL!
you TAWK too much. You LISTEN too much. GO HAVE FUN. Life is for the living. Buy
shoes! Go to swing class, don't listen to this mish mash! lol!
THEY WILL LOVE YOU FOR IT. THEY WILL WORSHIP YOU.

Men who love you and want to be close to you don't bore you with the ins and outs of
every unsure, wishy washy, scared of marriage feeling they have. They just shut up and
love you. This guy obviously does not see you as his future wife...so WHAT IN THE
WORLD ARE YOU FEELING GUILTY ABOUT???
He has no intentions toward you and he is telling you this in as many ways as he knows
how.You need to *listen* to what he is telling you and move on.

Make flirty eyes back or else ignore him. Don't do anything. The man is the one who has
to *do something*. ;)

Men are actually disappointed when you are nice and interested in talking about their
"confusion" (aka commitment fears), and when you pay attention, and make special
time to get together with them to listen to it and talk all about it and what to do about it.
They are actually *disapppointed*, and feel let down, if you take the bait. Because, what
they really want, is a woman who has a life and has a LOT of confidence, and doesn't
find any of it even interesting (his "issues"), because to her it isn't interesting.
She's got too much of a Life! And, every guy wants to be in it! ;)

The only correct responses to getting a call like this are:
"Wow! It's nice to hear from you! But, gee, I Can't Talk- I'm just heading out the door!"
"Hi! Oh, gee, I Can't Talk! Oh, gosh! I'm just on my way out to the aerobics class!"
"Hi! I Can't Talk! I'm just on my way to the movies/the pool/ raquetball/school/ the gym/
shopping/ Paris/ tennis/ Spain/ the museum/ to play pool/ a party/ WHATEVER!"
Kimi, it's The Answer They are Pining For, deep in their being. when they hear it, they
LOVE the woman saying it. They can't hellp but love her, because it's How Men Are
Wired.

You shouldn't have said you'd be bummed out, if he left, but it was great that you said
he should follow his heart or his dream job or whatever.
just be really sweet, really pretty, really hard to catch, and be booked up so he doesn't
get a date everytime he wants one! ;)
It's GOOD for him. lol. They LIKE this!
And what better place to be than with someone kind, (what's wrong with that?) older,
wiser (more emotionally mature than her fiance. more sensitive, takes love and
companionship less for granted, knows the importance of it). Where else should she
be? With someone, unkind, unwise, immature? This is bettah?
I'm not saying that's what's actually happening, but something for Mayshee to ponder. I
hope it is what's happening. Because that's exactly the place you want to end up after
being trashed. In the arms of someone more sensitive and mature.

So how do you gals deal with trying to be CUAO when you're feeling
down. Maybe 'cause it's a rainy Monday here, but I'm just feeling so
hopeless and blue. When you're running out of optimism and dating
energy, how to you get into a place of CUAOishness?
I go to the gym. A blast of a work out. Or aerobics, with LOUD HOT music. Or funk
Aerobics, Hip hop aerobics. I also take Ballet or jazz dance. Jazz dance has bettah
music. Take something with LOUD, FAST, HOT music.
(you could take spin class, or salsa dance, swing dance, or chacha).
This is WHAT CUAOs do! They don't ever let themselves get in a blah, dripy, blue
mood...and couch potatoe around, wallowing in a sucky mood. And, this is what
SEPERATES the CUAO women from the Ordinary women.
When the CUAO woman starts to feel blahblue, she put on a great dress and goes to
sign up for salsa class. Or, she slips into her cheetah print work out gear, and goes to a
hip hop aerobix. She does it, even if she weighs 200 lbs. Because she knows she is da
bomb. And, any man would be lucky to have her or to even lay his eyes on her. When
she feels blahblue, the CUAO, schedules a pedicure. And gets cherry red toes. She
signs up with a dating service. She books a vacation. To someplace she's always
dreamed of going (there she will meet Ricardo, or Phillipe) (they will call her for the rest
of thier life, every month, which wil drive her American boyfriends crazy, and add to her
mystery and allure. ;)

If you want to win men's admiration and passionate love the first thing you have to do is
stop being So Understanding.
When you are a really understanding, really nice girl, you do not win their heart.

After that, they start falling at your feet, buying you flowers and take you to fancy
restaurants. ;)
(while the really understanding girl sits home wondering WHERE he is for their date).

Oooh, a goddess! Hee!
The more you play therapist the worse men treat you.
The more madly they chase women who don't play therapist. Don't be so
understanding. It turns men off not on.
It sounds backwards. But it is the real world.
The more your mind happily drifts and wanders when they start to girlshrink you, the
more you swiftly, distractedly loose interest in these topics, the more cool they think you
are.
They are Not wired like us.
You can tell men, "If you keep talking about this I'm going to have to bill you $100" (said
flirtily). After the first second of utter shock, they Really light up. They LOVE it.

You also shouldn't be telling HunkyEx all about every guy you date. In details.
HE IS NOT YOUR GIRLFRIEND. When we do TR, we don't talk to men like they are
girlfriends.
Be mysterious.
Tell him nothing. Smile like a cat.
Mystery Is Everything To Men.
DO Not Be An Open Book. ;)

Lili*, you're 1000% correct about not listening to the fears of
commitment stuff. What I meant to say was, he is talking about how he
is getting over them.
YAWN. You shouldn't even be listening to this! It's not interesting to you. Your mind
Wanders nine seconds into this conversation. You find your mind drifting (to spin class,
that cute outfit you saw, what you're going to take at school next year, or what's in the
frig).
When we do TR We Don't Play Therapist. Or Sob Sister to men we date.
We aren't interested in their complexes and whether the complexes are melting or
freezing.
It's not fascinating that he is getting over it. It's yaaaaaawwwwwn. What were you
saying, hon? (you don't feel well? want some aspirin? Look, I'm going to run! The
weather is so great!).
I couldn't stand listening to him talk about his fears if he was still
worried about them. He was talking more about how they're melting away.
yaaaaaawwwwwn, melting shmelting. Don't you have a raquetball date to think about
instead of this? Speaking of melting, I'm melting in this sun! Let's call Bambi and GO
SWIMMING!
Nevertheless, I'll try to put a stop to it, because yes, I'm acting
dweeby.
A real Rules girl would find all of that stuff incredibly boring. She wouldn't even hear it.
She would be busy packing her bag for the beach, singing the tune on the radio,
interupting him to go call Suzi, Bini, and Darci to see if they want to go to the beach, and
to talk about everyone's new bathing suits, (for a loong time on the phone, why he waits,
in mid sebtence for her to get interested in what he was saying...).

It seems like intimacy , when he starts sharing all this with you. You start to think,
"oooooh, we are getting closer, he is opening up so much. This is so good...".
It is NOT intimacy. When a man starts to "open up" and tell you these kinds of things, he
is not growing closer to you. He is distancing you.
It is how men create anti-intimacy. Ignore it. Go about your life. Be bored (yaaaawwn)
(be thinking: I wonder if Mindy wants to go to spin class with me...maybe we can go
shopping after. Oh! I know! We can go to the new spa, too!) ( these are the things you
should be thinking about when your bfs start this talk!).
It is un-close, anti-intimacy. It is.
Men who love you and want to be close to you don't bore you with the ins and outs of
every unsure, wishy washy, scared of marriage feeling they have.
They just shut up and love you. They work it out themseleves. It's the manly, thing to do.
Also, the more you act like the topic is interesting to you, the more he will talk about it,
and the more unattracted he feel towards toward you.

Never, never act interested, or curious when a man brings up the topic of his "fear of
commitment", his "deep marriage phobia", or his or "unreadiness for marriage" (and
what it stems from, what his shrink thinks it stems from, blah, blah) or his "mixed
feelings" about "marriage/commitment".
Never act interested in the conversations or the topic. Don't listen, empathetically, in an
interested way, or a supportive way, a curious way or seem riveted.
Never give him your rapt attention, when he is talking on this topic. Doing so is
GirlDweeb.
The more rapt attention and genuine interest you show, the more of this topic you will
hear. It will grow and grow, and go on forever. He will mish mash around in it, and the
more rapt you are, the more responsive you are, the more he will lose interest in you
and he won't even know why.
Dreamgirls listen for a total of nine secinds, then when he says, "I think it stems from my
parents' divorce when I was eight (or my prior divorce that I'm still not done
processing...), then their mind wanders.
They get a distracted look in their eyes, a far away look, like they are wondering if sally
wants to go play tennis today, and if they should call her before or after they jump up to
make lemonaide.
Get distracted. LET YOUR MIND WANDER. Go make lemonaide or sushi in the middle
of him talking, go, "Just a sec hon, I have to call Darci and see if she wants to go to spin
class with me tonite". Then call her .
DOn't be afraid to interupt this boorish topic! Tell him (if he persists),
"MMmm...hmmm...uh-huh, gee! sounds like something you should talk to your friend
Mike about, want some sushi? I'm going to get some from the frig, then, I have to shoo
you out, because, I'm going to spin class with Darci and Bambi...".
(say "sorry you don't feel so good. Want an aspirin?" Act like a ditz. Like you think this is
the correct response to the woes and deep anxieties he's sharing (gag) with you. LOL!).
Men Are NOT OFFENDED when women respond in this way to the topic.
On the contrary- they like it !
Just whip it with noodles, whip it with poodles, whip it with streudels, then throw it in the
ocean.
Forget it.

It will be tricky, since you've always been open and honest, talking to him like he was
one of the girls.
Just answer, "Great!". Sound happy and light. If he asks, "Oh, yeah - well tell me what's
going on?", then just say, "mmmm, I really can't talk about that now! Say, how's your job
going? Last time we talked, you were on that interesting project! Are you still on it? Are
you going to Cancun, to do the research or what? You lucky duck! Take me! I wish I
could go!"
(or whatever else is real).
If he presses again like, "Hey! wait a minute now! You're not getting off that easy! You
have to tell me about your LOVE life!", just say, "Ooops! can you hold on a sec? I think
someone's at the door/ I need some lemonaide/ the dryer is beeping!" (whatever).
YOu communicate that this is now a private part of your life, subtly, and indirectly, over a
stretch of time.
Your staple answer, when asked this question should always be, "Great!", said happy
and light! And a swift transition to another topic. ;)
You CAN do it. He won't think you're rude. Guys aren't like women.

Mmm...I don't like the "obligations" thing. Because it sounds like she can't go because
she as some dreaded obligation. Or posssibly some dreary obligation. Something she is
obligated to do, but doesn't want to. Not that she can't go because something fun and
mysterious is filling her time.
"Obligation" might conjur images of how she is visiting a cranky, sick relative who's
dying, cleaning up a crinkly, koo koo, irate uncle's garage with her much hated sister, or
holding a paranoid friend's hand, while she's getting root canal.
She's obligated. She can't get out of this un-fun thing to do her passion, and have a
great time like everybody else.

Don't say *any* of the things on your list here.
Say, sweetly, light and breezily: "Oh, I won't be able to attend!" Don't add,
"because....blahbadeeblah"
You can add one or two of these, for embellisment: gosh/gee/wow, I wish I could!/gosh,
I'd love to!, gosh! I'm so busy!
If pressed for an expanation, say, "Wow! I'd love to do it but can't squeeze it in! Have a
really great time!", or "Gee! I just can't get free! Gosh! I'm so busy these days! Have a
super time! any way...I was just rushing out the door, sorry I can't talk longer, and it's SO
great to hear from you! bye! You take care!"
(print this out, and put it by the phone) (lol!)
I like to talk while I'm cleaning the kitchen, doing dishes, clanging around, rushing, as it
gives your voice, a happy, busy, breathless quality. haha. breathless and breezylike.

If he keeps asking, keep smiling, in secret, flirty catlike way. Go get some potatoe chips
or punch. Move around the room in a happy, carefree way. You are a woman of mystery.
What ever you do, Don't answer! (you'll look like a dweeb!). lol!

You wink. You smile in a sly, flirty way. You sparkle.
You don't answer!

If you want to be more attractive, stop complaining.

I went through the whole, "Oh, he must be very shy, and is waiting for someone else to
talk first. He wishes he weren't shy, and could start conversations, but he can't ". lol!
"I'll get things rolling. This will be fun. He'll be relieved. You can tell he is shy. Look at
him. He looks very, very shy. He doesn't have confidence- that's all. As soon as I start a
conversation, a charming, warm man will emerge."
etc., etc., lol! NOT! lol! If they aren't starting conversations with you, they aren't
interested!!
Interested men start conversations with you.
If the men aren't starting any conversations with you, just talk with warmth and fun to the
women. Have a great time. Eat all the food. Smell all the flowers. Eat all the flowers.
Take in the ambiance.
Simply recognize that none of those men are interested in you, and and don't let it
bother you at all. Just shrug it off! Enjoy the women. ;)
At the next dinner party, five men may be all trying to start conversations with you. LOL!
It's how life works. ;)

You didn't invite him into your apartment after the date #3?? :o
Did you?
Arr.
Don't do this if you want a date to get to know the inner you!!!
If you don't want to be treated like a sex object, you have to not invite them in a after
dates. If you invite them in, they'll think you're inviting them to have (lustful,
meaningless) sex.
Don't make it so easy for them!! (easy to get into your apartment/easy to get into your
clothes/ all too easy!).
BE A CHALLENGE!

Making out on date #3 is too much, too soon. Being so physically available, and so
casual about it, like it's not really any big deal, or anything meaningful, is probably why
he felt he could talk to you so casually, about your figure, as if talking this way isn't
anything either.
Also, if you started the comments about your bossom, you opened up the subject and
invited the comment.
If you want him to focus on the inner you, don't make out on date #3!

All of this the authors tell women to do, (turn him down for dates, get busy with other
things, don't sit by the phone), can all be done with either a spirit of enmity, and fear, or
in a spirit of quiet affection and centeredness. What is going on is all in your frame of
mind.

And actually he's not immature either. He's just a guy who likes sex
and doesn't share my viewpoint on deferring sex.
Okey. I don't see this, though. If you tell a guy "no" and he goes for it right away,
because he can't delay gratification of his carnal wants, in my book this is immature.
Mature guys can delay immeadiate gratification, even of things they really like and really
want very badly, and enjoy very, very much.
So of course, he's going to push the issue. I would expect him to.
If you like the aggression, I don't then understand what is the problem. I will have to bow
out of trying to assist.
He is operating from his own set of morals while trying to adjust to
mine.
Okey.
Thanks for providing the food for thought, but I guess I am not willing
to cut him off at the knees just yet.
I think you misunderstand all this. None of it is "hard", "taking a hard line", or "cutting
him off at the knees". It is all something we do easily, and with a quiet, serene
confidence. Softly.
It challenges him. It is part of quality courtship. Which he likes and needs.
It isn't punitive, unless you are in a punitive frame of mind. It is just a gentle expression
of femininty.

You don't like how he acts but you are so interested in him? But, How He Acts Is Him.
Is it really Him you're interested in or a dreamguy who looks like him but doesn't act like
him? A made up guy. Not Him.
OH! If only The Real Him would hurry up and get OUT of the picture, so I could proceed
with my love affair!
With the dreamlover who has his face, his back, his legs, his lips. His taught and tawny
thighs.
But acts the exact opposite of him.

Re-read TR. When a man gets cocky (disrespectful) of us- we go away - not toward
him!
We are suddenly so hard to reach or see.
Part of me thinks that he won't understand if I just cut him off
without a word,
Yes, he might not. Because you've been overly tolerant of this cockiness all along.
The thing with this kind of Rules is you have to Do It The Very First Time a date is cocky.
You don't keep dating him, and wresteling about your boundries, and then do The Rules
after he's been cocky the twelfth time. It doesn't send the same message. You Never
Get A Second Chance To Make A First Impression.
Remember that. His first impression of you should be that when he is cocky once , You
Are Outta There. A Dreamgirl.
(You are SO hard to reach after that). ;)
When we are disrespected, we show them what we are about Fast and Swift.

That's exactly how I've been feeling lately...that we're playing some
stupid game that I never agreed to play.
Nope. You did agree to play. He Showed You What He Was About, and you said
"okay!", by picking up his calls after that, showing interest, and jumping to go out with
him again. He pushes your boundries, you say "no", then you say "yes" by going out
with him again. "no/yes/no/" I will play it. I agree to it, by doing it repeatedly. Instead of
doing something different which might be scarey to me (and therefore might challenge
me !). :o
He does need to understand that I am serious about this. Perhaps the
only way for him to get a clue IS to stop accepting dates with him.
Won't he think that I'm just not interested?
HAR! HAR! That is the whole maessage we WANT to send. Nothing but the best for this
sugartoes. You don't give me respect, and treat me like a lady, and be the best man you
can be, then I'll *lose* interest. Roberto? Roberto who? Oh. That dweeb? Nah.
I don't want to send THAT message.
WHY not?

I don't believe in scolding him. I would decide if I liked this about him or not. If I liked it,
I'd keep at dating him, and decide I could live with it fine. If I really didn't like it or think I
could tolerate it, I'd turn him down for all future dates and date oters. When we do
Sherrie and Ellen's pilosophy, we Don't Try To Change A Man.
If he acts like this- This Is Who He Is. He will continue to do it, when you are married,
too. We don't try to change men. We decide if we like how they act or not. If we don't
like it, we Date Others.
If a man treats a dreamgirl obnoxiously then it's super hard to get a phone call or a date
with them ever again. Because...
THEY ARE A CHALLENGE.
They are always, very feminine, and sweet though.

SOmetimes you will have such incredible feelings of connection and meaning and
intimacy, while you are having sex with a man who is your boyfriend. Every touch you
exchange will feel so tender, so profound.
Every time you look in each others eyes, you will feel such unity.
Every kiss will transport you. Each kiss, each stroke will feel intensely personal to you.
And, profoundly intimate and meaningful. Like the skies parting.
It will be so awesome.
While he may not be feeling anything like this. He may not even have one tenth the
emotional response to you, when you are in bed. He will be focused purely on the
physical part of sex, sometimes so intensely focused on the physical, that he doesn't
even see you.
At all. And he doesn't even care. He is just focused on the physical pleasure.
He isn't as focused on the emotional pleasure. He can seem to be expressing the most
profound emotional states (this you will conclude from his eyes and his kisses and his
embraces), just like you are. But actually he is not. He is kissing and embracing and
looking in your eyes, in order to have more sex. Not more love.
He is in the throes of lust, and you are in the throes of tenderness. He is in the throws of
physiology, while you are in the throes of profound vulnerabilty. Your interest in him will
grow, and grow, while his may stay static, or he may even lose his interest in you once
you've had sex.
He may realize he doesn't even find you interesting. Though he still like to go to bed
with you.
It is a minefield. I'd stay out. You can go in. But I would advise staying out.
[singaporegurl] - 09:10am Feb 1, 2001 EST (#229 of 321)

Chantall, are these new Lili posts? If so, which board are they from?

No these are old posts from deleted boards.

lili* can't write that fast.

Say, "I thought about how far we went the other night, and I went farther than is really
right for me".
Here is a menu of extras you can add that you can pick from like:
(say it softly) (but not all overly serious or grave) (be light and soft)
"My heart is telling me this isn't what I want to do, with someone I'm only dating"
"I really want to reserve that kind of intimacy only for my husband"
"In my heart of hearts, this doesn't feel like it's a good idea for me" (or "best for me")
Say it softly, warmly and act calm, feminine, centered, and confident.
Don't act nervous, tentative, apologetic, and don't explain.
Don't defend it. Keep it super short, super simple, super soft.
Then, change the topic and don't let it go on and on or hang in the air in a weighty way.
Be fun. Be nice. Be light. Be sweet. Be feminine

Is there a light and breezy or cute way to say this is too fast or too
much?
Say just that! Say, softly, "This is too fast". Or, "This is too fast- this is too much". Soften
your voice, and let your eyes and voice be gentle and warm, and feminine, but do say
this.
He will *totally* understand.

You can be sweet and warm, and affectionate, and feminine, and this is enough to make
him happy. Trust me.

I guess the thing that bothers me about all this we have to be light
and breezy, can't get too upset, must throw our problems on our
girlfriends instead...sometimes it makes me feel like the guy i'm with
is telling me "either by this way stifle yourself or i'm leaving you"
I almost don't even know what I'm trying to say - does anybody else?
does this make any sense to anyone? am I the only one who feels this
way?
Janet, I wrote a long post to you about this topic, but I think you've forgotten it, or didn't
understand it in the first place, when you read it. I think your view here is a big
misunderstanding of marriage, men, and women.
It isn't about *squelching* our real selves. It isn't creating a fake self for our husband, or
having to *act* perfectly and only happy all the time to draw a man to attach to attach to
us and to stay attached.
It is about having a mature, reciprocal relationship, understanding that men's deepest,
most vital masculine needs, are as real and as important as women's, and that
successful marriages are built on *reciprocity*: successful marriages aren't the ones that
built solely on *women's* romantic vision of how a good marriage should be.
They are built on men stretching themselves out of their comfort zone to *meet a
woman's needs*, for connection, tenderness, emotional intimacy, talk, romance, more
focus on emotions, more focus on The Relationship, and women stretching themselves
*to meet a man's needs* for distance, quiet, approval, space, less relationship talks,
less focus on emotions, less focus on The Relationship, quiet contentement (which men
read as deep, deep appreciation of him).
Women of our grandmothers' generation understood the creatures that men were and
loved them up and appreciated them with grace, for all the great things men were and
didn't expect them to be anything else, and didn't point out to them what they were not
good at. They understood men's stregnths and limitations, and respected them for it.
They were happy to talk to other women (mothers, sisters, aunts, nieghbor ladies, best
girlfreinds) about "women talk", and let their men just LOVE them, and do for them what
men are good at.
You have to love men for what they are, and not treat them like they are another one of
our girlfriends. They are not. They have different needs. Your husband is Your Man. He
is not a girlfriend. It is a totally different kind of relationship.
When you are more self contained around your man, you are not squelching your real
self. You are loving him, by meeting his deepest masculine energy needs for love
expressed the way men like it expressed.
The more you meet a man's deepest masculine needs, the more he will want to meet
yours and to please you. He will often build his entire life around pleasing you, and
putting a smile on your face, because he lives for that smile, that to him is love.
The more you meet a man's needs, the more he will attach strongly to you.
(Just as the more a man meets your deepest feminine needs, you will attach strongly to
him).
When a man sees that a woman is happy, and complaint free, he feels that he is being
VERY successful at marriage. When he feels he Successful at marriage, his deepest
masculine needs (to please a woman and to succeed at it) are met. Then he wants to
give and give to her. And give and give and give to her, and he attaches VERY strongly
to her, and falls more deeply in love with her.
Look at Old people's marriages. Marriages of people in their 70s, 80s, 90s. The women
know how to meet the men's needs, and the men, in turn, meet the women's needs.
When a woman constantly wants to talk about this problem or that problem, or this
negative feeling or that negative feeling, or this disappointment or that disapointment,
(of either him, The Relationship, or of countless things outside of it) a man feels like a
failure.

You are not a toy, and if you let a man relate to you like you are a toy, you are going to
get hurt.
Your body has a soul in it. It is not a toy. Protect and gaurd your sensitive soul inside
your body, and only become physically intimate when it is very, very safe to do so.
If you do things in the right order you will be much less likely to get hurt in the end.
Sex might be fun now but the hotness of sex can also also burn you. So, reserve it for
the right time, with the right person.

A woman should never reject the part of her that is "needy", or be ashamed of it. It is
precisely this that makes her a woman. A woman is different from a man. She needs
love to be woven into sex. She needs, security and connection. She is more vulnerable
through sex than he is. It is her tender side, her vulnerability- her differentness from
him- that attracts him. Her tender side, expressed without shame, or embarrassment
attracts him to her. He craves her difference from him.
Her vulnerability and softer side, that requires love and protection, expressed with a soft
confidence, and without demand, anger, or, shame, moves him, and causes him to
elavate her and be attracted to her.
There is no need for her to be ashamed of her difference from men, or to be ashamed
to make it known. Men do not want her masculinity, they want her feminity.
It is okey to be needy. It is all in how you express it. If you express it by calling, and
crying, and asking "do you love me?", you are expressing your belief that you are not
lovable. This cause him to question your sanity.
If you express your neediness (need for connection, continuity of love) by softly
rejecting what he offers that does not meet your need (for instance, strings free sex) he
instinctively understands and he does not question your sanity. Nor is he repeled. He
finds you interesting.
A woman can express her "neediness", by softly rejecting what a man offers, that does
not fulfill her.
He will think she is great, when she does this.

I think a woman should make a man wait until the wedding night to get to spend the
night with her. It increases her mystery, and her unattainableness.
It also increases his desire for her. The more a woman asks for from a man, before she
will allow these intimacies, the more in awe of her he will be. He will think to himself, "I
have to give a lot to win the chance to be closer to her. She must be very, very
valuable".
When a woman doesn't let a man spend the night with her outside of marriage, she is
very hard to get. Men like hard to get. It challenges them. They are stimulated by what a
challenge she is.
They also like this because they think that other men haven't been spending the night in
her bed. This makes her interesting to them. Men are very, very sensitive about other
men touching her. They don't like to think these thoughts. So, the fact that she is less
touched and pawed by many other men, makes her interesting and very, very desirable.
She is unique. It's a type of uniqueness that attracts men very strongly.
It is hard for women to understand. The fact that men prize women who haven't been
touched on a lot by a lot of *other* men, usually angers women. Because women don't
see this as an indication of men's heart side- their, sensitive side.
The fewer intimacies a woman allows a man, when they are *only* dating, the more a
man can picture her as *my wife*, when he is thinking about her, and they are apart.
Because, ideally, he'd like his wife not to have been touched on by a lot of other men.
When she sweetly turns him down for sleep overs, she becomes closer to his deeply,
deeply secret ideal.
He has an ideal woman he craves. He has dream woman. He craves her and he seeks
her. He hopes against hope to find her some day.
What she is like is secret. He will never tell what she is like. She is beautiful and she is a
woman who is not physically attracted to any other man but him. She desires sex with
him, and only him. She is private to him. Not for sharing.
So, when a woman says, "no" to intimate sleep overs, she becomes, in his eyes, closer
and closer to his very secret, very sought after woman.

(these are lili's thoughts on WUMTHS. personally I am not.)

She becomes, dangerously close to being his secret woman. This dangerousness
excites him. Without dangerousness, there is no real love for him. A man must feel the
deep dangerousness of the situation. Then, he can love her.

Women can give men rubies. By meeting their distance needs, and by meeting their
other needs for challenge and stimulation and space and good looks and confidence
and other things men value. Give to men by being receptive and feminine and
appreciative of their doing.
Give to man what he values.
What men value is vastly different than what women value. And, what they need, in
order to be fulfilled, is vastly , worlds away from what women need in order to be
fulfilled.

hi! ")
I have to go now!
ba-bhye!

Reminder: these are all lili's posts.
And I hope she comes back soooon!
mwah*
[happy67] - 11:26am Feb 1, 2001 EST (#244 of 321)

Thanks chantall!
[maryangel] - 11:59pm Feb 2, 2001 EST (#245 of 321)

Where do you post to ask a question and get an answer from Lili? Thanks!
[chantall] - 01:30pm Feb 3, 2001 EST (#246 of 321)

The Leopard Spot is where she often posts..
but she has been gone for several weeks.
Tom Cruise's love interest in MI2 is... [Nyah] - 06:10am Feb 5, 2001 EST (#247 of
321)
Thank you Chantall
Ciao CUAOs [Anya] - 04:30pm Feb 5, 2001 EST (#248 of 321)
These posts were GREAT! Thanks for doing that!

save
Go on! Go on! Leave me Breathless! [chameleon q] - 08:12am Feb 12, 2001 EST
(#250 of 321)
This is a permanent topic - you don't have to "save" it. The only way it will be deleted is
with the host's intervention.
Cham
Lamppost] - 12:29pm Mar 4, 2001 EST (#251 of 321)

From the WUMTHS board:
What is the time frame that guys should ask to be exclusive?
Lili: they should ask betwen the second date and the tenth date. if they don't, there's no
reason to date them. it will never go anywhere.
...and does this apply even if you're in a longdistance relationship such as myself?
Lili: yes.
Do guys usually ask for exclusivity faster to girls who are WUMTHS?
Lili: no. they ask for exclusivity fast when they have a *major* interest in a girl. if they
don't ask for exclusivity fast, they don't have a major interest in her. when they think
you're immensely attractive (which is what it's all about for men), they have an all out
terror that another man will snap you up and take you away from them. so, they act fast.
Lili: if he's not acting fast, on the exclusivity thing, he's not that into you. he's still looking
for *Her*.
[Lamppost] - 08:45am Mar 5, 2001 EST (#252 of 321)

From the Leopard Spot board:
Lili: e-mail is not sensual and so we should never use it outside of work. e-mail isn't
scarey to men, which is another reason we shouldn't use it. calling on the fone is scarey
to men. and that is good. when men do scarey things to get us it makes them more
excited. terror is a neccesary component of mating. it is very important. without actual
terror men cannot feel true love for you.
your e-mail is too pursuing. you are too forward. and agressive, to suggestive, to easy,
too available. catching you will be like shooting fish in a barell. do not do this anymore.
watch the Wild Kingdom more, for more dating advice.
you're not hard-to-get. yoo're not being a challenge. you aren't running through the tall
grasses into the wild. you aren't darting around, you thighs quivering in the chase.
jungle in your nose.
he has nothing to chase. you are chasing him back.
you are being a flirtyfish in a barrel.
we don't give men messages of what they ought to do. men call when they feel like it.
we go to the museum or the planetarium, or latin dancing. we don't watch when they
call.
[Curvy] - 12:18am Mar 12, 2001 EST (#253 of 321)
homework assignment:
count how many times the men in your life say to you, "do you need anything?". Include
brothers, fathers, uncles, nieghbors, and all men.
the more a man's saying this to you, the more interested he is in you. if he's not saying
this to you at all, break up with him! he doesn't really love you!
keep a daily diary. write on the front of it "The Do you need anything? Diary".
count how many times men say it to you. enter it into your diary every time man says it
to you. write down who said it to you.
you will be surprised. over time, the diary will show you who really loves you. you might
be very surprised to discover who these men are.
keep note on what you answered them each time a man asked it to you. keep notes on
what happened when you said "yes, I need a ...".
keep detailed notes of these (previously thought of as inconsequential) questions:
"need anything?"
"is there anything you need?"
"is there anything i can bring you?"
"is there anything else I can bring you?" this will reveal your secret admirers. ;)
[pollysci] - 01:46pm Mar 13, 2001 EST (#254 of 321)

agree with Curvy's post about "do you need anything?" yes, with just a little tongue in
cheek, but still, it stands true. My father and a very good male friend are the only ones
who have ever said that to me. Asking that is ACTING on love...not just saying it. I ask
people that i love and care about what they need...how can i help them....are they
having a good day... etc... It makes perfect sense.
for mating ritual the way it should be see the scene in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
between the young girl and Lo (i think that is his name) when they first meet. It is pure
joy IMO. she was no "flirtyfish in a barrel" heehee! P
pollysci] - 01:46pm Mar 13, 2001 EST (#254 of 321)

agree with Curvy's post about "do you need anything?" yes, with just a little tongue in
cheek, but still, it stands true. My father and a very good male friend are the only ones
who have ever said that to me. Asking that is ACTING on love...not just saying it. I ask
people that i love and care about what they need...how can i help them....are they
having a good day... etc... It makes perfect sense.
for mating ritual the way it should be see the scene in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
between the young girl and Lo (i think that is his name) when they first meet. It is pure
joy IMO. she was no "flirtyfish in a barrel" heehee! P
[beguiled] - 05:30pm Mar 13, 2001 EST (#255 of 321)

Mo' good Lili stuff From the What To Say When board:
lili** - 09:34pm Mar 11, 2001 EST (#1027 of 1062)
amy,
If I see him at a local hangout, what should I do/say? ...Should I just avoid him, or let
him talk to me,
other than a breezy "hello", pay noo attention to him. be breezy, and dress extra hot or
beeotiful. when he engages you in a conversation, be polite,pretty, and breezy, and
distracted. don't focus on him at all- no matter what he says. ;)
if he asks you out again, sweetly decline.. a simple, femmy "noh thank you" is all you
need to say.
...or should I say hello and ask him what happened?
no. don't pay attention to men who hurt you. don't go up to him and initiate a
conversation. don't ask what happened. you already know what happened (and so does
he): he asked you out then stood you up. he wasn't considerate enough of you to call
you and cancel.
if you ask what happened, you'll look wierd. don't do it. dum girlz do it.
he doesn't get a second date.
the begining of dating is when a guy puts his best foot forward in dating. if he's this
flakey in the begining something's wrong (don't ask what). (he has another girl, met
another girl, or he decided you weren't his type enough).
when they really like you, they call you a lot. they show up for the dates. it's that simple.
Should I act like I didnt care one bit or only act like I was confused?
just look beutiful and ignore him. be charming, happy, and talk to other people.
lili** - 09:39pm Mar 11, 2001 EST (#1028 of 1062)
Keep in mind that I am really hurt about this because I thought he would be my
boyfriend and I am so puzzled.
if you aren't dating exclusively, he's not your boyfrind yet. if a man wants to be our
boyfriend (they decide this very quickly) he asks us for exclusivity- and he asks early on
(between the first and the tenth date).
until a man does this, we have no reason to think he's our boyfriend. he's one of the
nice men we date. he's a nice date!
lili** - 10:09pm Mar 11, 2001 EST (#1029 of 1062)
she's alllll,
I'm going up there again (on a business trip) and I'm going to meet him to do something
(we have a date set).
why are you going to meet him? the man picks up the woman and drives her to the
date.
We just finished talking. He sounds very excited that I'm going up there again. I'm only
there for 3 days, so it will be a quick trip. He was telling me that I should've booked my
trip for the weekend so that he could've taken me out more.
this is great. yes, he likes you.
I think he was just nervous or wanted reassurance when he asked me to call him. (he
certainly didn't sound cocky).
he's used to women who pursue him, or nervous women who call a lot to remind him
when they're coming (because they don't feel confident that it's the man's job to keep
track of it).
it's the man's job to kep track of it. it's not the girl's job to call the man and remind him of
her schedule!
it's the man's job to keep track of it.
it's called *social skills*. it's the man's job to keep track of it, when the girl says, "I'm
flying in on ____", it's the man's place in dating, to write it into his franklin planner or his
palm pilot.
the girl does nothing but relax in dating. she doesn't even worry that he'll forget when
she's coming or not keep track of it. if he does, it's not her problem - it's the man's. he'll
miss the pleasure of her company.
which is all his own doing- not hers (for not calling to remind him).
when a man asks you to call him to remind him, say nothing. just be happy and act like
you didn't hear it.
it's the man's privelege to take you out on a date. he's an adult so he writes down when
you're coming in. ;)
don't mother him by calling him to remind him of things it's a man's place to remembah.
nooooo. ")
if he had a *very* important job interview, don't yu think he'd remember when it was
going to be? would he say to the prospective company they should "call and remind"
him so he didn't forget when the interview was? nooo, I don't think soo.
a date is like an important appointment. ")
[FemmyMe] - 03:31am Mar 17, 2001 EST (#256 of 321)

Lili** you rock! These all deserve to be bronzed. If anyone has them in a Word file they
can send, please let me know! I'm saving just about every post to read later! (ok sorry
for cluttering up the board with non-Lili posts :-))
[Lamppost] - 01:07pm Mar 29, 2001 EST (#257 of 321)

From the what to say board:
Lili*:
men are dying to date women who are sought after by other men.
it's how they are! the more a man gets the impression you aren't that concerned with
him (and do forget him when he's out of your sight), the more cool he thinks you are.
you become irresistably attractive.
at the very least, you become cooler by at least a few notches.
Her serene highness [LA GIRL] - 03:01am Apr 18, 2001 EST (#258 of 321)
Even more dewdrops from Lili*!
[lili**] - 12:26am Apr 18, 2001 EST (#2225 of 2227)
" I've been reading Lili*'s classic posts, and love them to death!! Mostly because they
emphasize cultivating a fun & fascinating life for your own sake, and not to worry that
men will be disappointed when you stop doting on them so much and focus on yourself.
That's become more interesting to me than thinking about what the men are thinking
about all the time. I want to know more about becoming THAT GIRL. Does anyone know
what I mean? "
you will never be happier than if you become THAT GIRL (and I don't mean marlo
thomas) (lol).
all the cogitating in the world about men does *nothing* to make them love you! so book
that dream train trip you've always been dreaming about taking!
you'll have a LiFe you can look back on with no regrets. you'll *live* mystery and
adventure instead of pretending to be mysterious. you'll create allure and charm men by
your HaPpY sHiNey and not by your overthinking of them.
thinking does not atrrrract men! living BrIgHtLy does! live for YoUrSeLf...you never know
when the men might leave...
" I figured there might be some Lili* fans here who might know what books she'd
recommend on this subject. I mean, I'm getting sick of MVOAD, I'm sick of thinking
about how men are elastics and go into their caves, etc, etc. "
HaHAH!
yes, please try not to thik about it too much. because... come closah...verry
close...closah...
ssshhh!!
...it's...a...waste...of...TiMe. ;)
because...closah...it doesn't...improooove your LoVe LiFe one iota.
haHA!
if you're wearing lipstick and eye shadow not blabbing every single deetail of your life to
men, spritzing on perfume, and making your hair shiny, going to astronomy class, or the
libraree, Italy or Thailand, and taking dream train trips...with a leopard suitcase...
that's all you really have to do to attract men. you don't have to tHiNk about them night
and DaY.
if a man wants you bad you will know! he will TELL you! (and then your job is to stay
elusive*)
making beauty to get beauty [jagqueen] - 12:17pm May 6, 2001 EST (#259 of 321)
[lili**] - 09:09pm May 5, 2001 EST (#44 of 57) I haven't read the book, just the
comments & excerpts here. it strikes me that it rings true with books 1 & 2, in that those
books teach
Let the Man Take the Lead (and be happy & shiny) (Easy To Be With) examples: He
picks where you go on dates, you be sparkly about it, etc.
he initiates kissing
he initiates sex (not you)
He Initiates approaching you , asking for your number, phone calls, all forms of contact,
dates, kissing, sex, relationship talks, proposing. so, it doesn't surprise, upset or shock
me to read (here) that Rules 3 advocates more of the same: Let Him Lead
and while he leads,
Be Easy To Be With
Be Light & Breezy
The Rules was never about being a queen. that's much more of an interpretation that
got started on the boards. it's a boards twist/attitude that was never part of The Rules to
start with. they always advocated being very feminine, light, and letting the male lead in
everything, don't complain (disappear!), etc., etc..
it sounds so far consistent with the first two books.
[plazasuite] - 05:26pm May 21, 2001 EST (#260 of 321)

LAMPOST
Herb Goldberg, as far as I am concerned is the genius of male/female relationships. He
doesn't contradict the rules either. I'm glad to hear you praise him because few people
understand his sophisticated level. He deals with the unconscious dynamics of
relationships which people tend to not want to know about.
[plazasuite] - 05:31pm May 21, 2001 EST (#261 of 321)

RULES III IS on target too. The thing that bothers me, as much as I agree with the
book, is that the same rules E & S claim make a good marriage are the same rules the
women of the 50's naturally followed. They ended up very depressed and as a result, a
severe epidemic of secret rampant alcoholism swept the country. This scenario is what
prompted Betty Freidan to author The Feminine Mystique that eventually launched the
modern women's movement.
[Lamppost] - 11:31am May 23, 2001 EST (#262 of 321)

Plazasuite,
This board is for Lili's REPOSTS only.
[starlet*] - 06:33am Jun 1, 2001 EST (#263 of 321)

More of Lili's Posts:
Violet for... [Lili_] - 07:35am May 31, 2001 EST (#2444 of 2456) heres my Tip O The
Day!
Get a more fem fem e-mail address! get something unique . and fun. switch from
hotmail.com and yahoo.com and all those boring, unfeminine e-mail adresses to
something cooler, cuter, that express your femininty more. you can create a mystique.
especially if you e-mail back and forth with guys and do on-line dating. try this french girl
one! aufemimin.com it's a really feminine address, and men really like it!
they have the funnest e-mail that you can compose in all these fem fem colours by
touching little colour dots at the top of the e-mail you're composing. they look like little
paintbox colors.
it has a lot of nice features, and it's a super smooth, fast site. having a french girl e-mail
address, makes guys think you are cool and mysterious... ;)
[starlet*] - 06:34am Jun 1, 2001 EST (#264 of 321)

Violet for... [Lili_] - 08:07am May 31, 2001 EST (#2445 of 2456) here's another leopard
spot tip o' the day.
summer is almost here and you can get this little fem fem fan for your desk at work or
school. it comes in these femmy, happy colors: yellow & pink. it's also french. it's fun!
you can see it at www.aufeminin.com cute little femmy fan. it's featured on the first
page. you can click on it for an enlargement. it's a flirty little fan.
guys will also like this fan when they see it on your desk. it's a sweet little accesory. ;)
it goes great with pink lemonaide. pink, daisy shoes, etc.
[curlyq] - 03:12pm Jun 1, 2001 EST (#265 of 321)

From the on-line profile makeover ctr:
[Lili...] - 08:39am May 30, 2001 EST (#1 of 17) I'm having a man who does PhotoShop,
work to make my photos more attractive, and it's really neat!
I e-mailed him the photos, and he e-mailed me back some preliminary work on them.
The difference is dramatic.
My eyes were black in all of my on-line photos, and I asked him to make them a pretty,
natural looking green. He's also softening the skin tone, and making the complexion
color more peaches & cream. It really looks terrific! The skin tone before had a yellow
tone.
He's also taking all of the distracting objects in the background out of the photos. This
improves the look of the photos a LOT.
Remember, we have a lot of women on The Rules boards who are artists. Many of them
are knowledgable in PhotoShop and other methods of manipulating photos. So, just ask
for someone to work with you here! You'll really like the results!
If you have a mediocre photo up on an on-line dating site, take it down right away, and
get the photos manipulated by an artist or take new photos. Have a girlfreind come over
and shoot 1-2 rolls of film of you in a day.
Don't spend 3 hours re-writing your profile. First, take a serious look at your photo(s),
and change them.
Remember, men look at hundreds of photos of women. A medicocre photo will not jump
out, he'll scroll right past it, without even paying attention. Put the best photos you can
up.
Because, contrary to what women like to think, men don't contact women based on
what they write in thier profiles. They contact women based on thier pictures.
Don't have a fit about it here. We have a venting board for that. It's no different than
women who respond to men based on thier height and thier profession.
The two sexes are wired very differently. First, take down your mediocre photos. Then,
let's go and makeover the written section of your profile.
Check back here daily, for Tips O' The Day, on the topic of Profile Makeovers.
Men are also welcome to play.
un certain...je ne sais quoi [the gidge] - 04:34pm Jun 2, 2001 EST (#267 of 321)
It's ALL about *eSSenCe* girls:
From lili** on the What to Say When II board:
What do you say when you see a guy and he asks, "Do you have big plans for the weekend?" and
it's too late for him to be asking you out for the weekend, not to mention the fact that it may just
be a conversational question?
just smile flirtily. dooon't say anything. or smile, a slowly, rising, mysterious, cat girl like smile,
and *wink*.
men aren't drawn to language . they're drawn to mystery & feminity. to the languageless world. ;)
smile a slowly rising smile . a mysterious, flirty smile. lower your head, stroke your hair. look at
him, then look away. let your hair swoop over you...and smell some nearby flowahs...close your
eyes, femininely, as you drink in the scent of the flowahs...go "mmmm...these smell heavenly...".
adjust your stockings. put on some lipstick. go make a lemonaide and fan yourself with a pink,
chinese fan.
this is the languageless world that men are attracted to. don't agoznize ovah what to say in words
to men. forget words.
flowahs [Lili...] - 07:16am Jul 2, 2001 EST (#2327 of 2332)

Contenda,
If I make myself busy so it is easier to not accept his last minute
dates (as I have non-rulesily trained him to do) won't he interperate
this as me losing interest (which I am not). How can I retrain without
explaining it to him? Will the man still "know" that I like him?
Thanks... LLL! (it means laffing laffing laffing) you have it all
backwards. LLL. the whole point is that he's not supposed to know how
much you like him. when they know (especially early on), it makes them
lose interest. it also makes them treat you badly. guys aren't into
girls who keep showing how much they like them and how interested they
are.
the whole point of being really busy iz for YOU, not him. but, the second reason is for him.
not to manipulate him , but to give him what he most needs to be fullfilled as a man. to meet his
masculine needs. we do this because we love men. we understand that when we meet thier true
needs, then they are happy with being with us. as opposoded to us meeting the needs we used to
think they had, such as
1) The Masculine Need To Receive Feminine Fluffy Cards
2) The Masculine Need to Receive Long, Boring Letters About Convoluted Feelings of Angst &
Attraction
3) The Masculine Need to Have a Woman With No Life Who's Avaialble To Go Out Anytime (a
woman who's not sought after)
4) The Masculine Need to Have a Woman Who Is a Total Slam Dunk (noo challenge whatsoever)
5) The Masculine Need to Have a Woman Who is a Dumb Unpaid Maid
6) The Masculine Need to Have a Woman Who Lectures Him, Cries, Screams
7) The Masculine Need to Have a Woman Who Has No Mystery
Note that these are *not* men's needs and never will be. if the seas run out of water, if the stars
fall out of the sky, and the fishes fly, till the end of all time, these will never be men's needs.
Men Like Women Who Are a Challenge. They Like Women Who are Cool. And who have lots of
Cool things going on in thier life, women who dress Cool, and have lots of other Cool men
chasing them.
They like women who are so Cool, you never know what they're thinking or where they are.
Watch more movies to learn how to be cool.
because that's what men want. they want it as bad as we want cute clothes and enagement rings.
if you want to succeed with men you have to start being really cool .
Have you ever noticed how many men cool girls have chasing after them? They get more
proposals than non-cool girls too.

Lamppost: - 01:41pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#

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[Lamppost] - 01:42pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#4 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:43pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#5 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:44pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#6 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:46pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#7 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:47pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#8 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:47pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#9 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:51pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#10 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:51pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#11 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:53pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#12 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:54pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#13 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:55pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#14 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:57pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#15 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:57pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#16 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:58pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#17 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 01:59pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#18 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:01pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#19 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:02pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#20 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:03pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#21 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:05pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#22 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:06pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#23 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:07pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#24 of 321)

Lamppost] - 02:11pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#25 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:13pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#26 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:15pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#27 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:16pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#28 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:21pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#29 of 321)

butterfly6] - 02:22pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#30 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:24pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#31 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:24pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#32 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:24pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#33 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:25pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#34 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:25pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#35 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:25pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#36 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:26pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#37 of 321)

butterfly6] - 02:27pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#39 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:27pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#40 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:28pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#41 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:29pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#42 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:29pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#43 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:29pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#44 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:30pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#45 of 321)

[Lamppost] - 02:30pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#46 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:30pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#47 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:31pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#48 of 321)

Lamppost] - 02:31pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#49 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:32pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#50 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:33pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#51 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:35pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#52 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:36pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#53 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:36pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#54 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:37pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#55 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:38pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#56 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:40pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#57 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:40pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#58 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:41pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#59 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:42pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#61 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:44pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#62 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:44pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#63 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:45pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#64 of 321)

[butterfly6] - 02:45pm Dec 13, 2000 EST (#65 of 321)