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A provocative interview with

Morihei Ueshiba
Guillaume Erard  March 25, 2019  18 comments  30 min read

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The following interview was originally published on May 27, 1956 in the weekly supplement Discover Aikido 25
of the Yomiuri newspaper (週刊読売, Shukan Yomiuri) and was brought to the English-
speaking Aikido community by Stanley Pranin in Aiki News issues 75 and 76. At the time, Encyclopedia 801

Stanley mentioned that little information was available about its origin, especially the
Podcasts 7
identity of the interviewer, which was unfortunate because the very unusual nature of the
interview and its tone made it rather challenging to interpret. I had thought about this for
years and I eventually decided to conduct some research in the Japanese parliament’s
database (Kokkai, 国会) to find out more.
Popular Posts
I discovered that the article was part of a long-running series of portraits published between
1947 and 1976 entitled “Hidezo Kenzan Yaa, konnichiwa” (日出造見参｢やァこんにちは｣, Aikido: Confronting a
which means “Hey, hello ! Hidezo’s interviews”) and that the author, Kondo Hidezo1 was a Crisis
 December 7, 2017
famous caricaturist turned political journalist. Later on, while browsing through stacks of
periodicals in an old bookshop in Tokyo, I actually found the issue of Shukan Yomuiri
Current Status of Aikido
containing this very interview! Journal website
 December 9, 2008
I am therefore able to present to you the original cartoons made by Kondo, as well as his
introduction for the piece, which had never been published in English before. I have also “Towards A Reform of
Aikido Technique:
slightly modified some parts of Stan’s translation and supplemented it with some notes to
Background” by Stanley
help the reader gain more context and understanding. As always, any remark and suggestion
Pranin
to make this translation better is warmly welcome.  October 19, 2012

Ueshiba Morihei is the 149th person to be interviewed by Kondo, who was described a few Community Insights:
years before conducting this interview as a “relatively ordinary anarchist, with no sense of 2017
 April 3, 2017
right or left”. As one might expect, his questions are therefore quite provocative, even ironic
at times. It is clear that Ueshiba Morihei must not have been used to be talked to that way.
Yet, he had to know exactly who he was going to be dealing with and it is interesting that he
still decided to accept the challenge. The date of the interview coincides with the Aikikai’s
intense efforts to bring Aikido to the public, with most notably, the organization of the first Archives
public Aikido demonstration on the roof of the Takashimaya department store the year
before, and the publication in 1957 of Ueshiba Kisshomaru’s first book entitled “Aikido”. April 2023

Interestingly, neither the title of the article, nor the short biography of Morihei mention the December 2022

name Aikido even though his discipline had been registered with the Dai Nippon Butokukai
November 2022
much earlier in 1942. Instead, he is introduced as either a master of Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu
and a student of Takeda Sokaku. Oddly, during the interview itself, it is the term Aikido, or August 2022
Aiki that are used exclusively.
July 2022
Throughout the interview, Ueshiba refers to Kondo as “sensei“. The term sensei (先生)
June 2022
generally applies to someone highly educated and/or in a position of authority such as a
teacher, a doctor, a lawyer, or indeed a writer, but Kondo did not completely fit the standard May 2022
since he was a satirical cartoonist turned interviewer who had dropped out from education.
On the contrary, at no point will he refer to Ueshiba as sensei, which is surprising considering October 2021
the age difference and Morihei’s status. Ueshiba, who was 72 years old at the time, is playing
September 2021
along with good grace, though some irritation is palpable sometimes. A lot of meaning is
certainly lost due to the absence of all non-verbal cues. It’s very interesting to see that even
May 2021
though some pecking between the two men occurs, at the same time, a kind of complicity
establishes itself as the interview unfolds, ending with a humorous play of word on the part April 2021
of Ueshiba when he bounces back on a sentence used by his interlocutor.
December 2020

This interview is truly one of a kind and it helps us to get a glimpse of a slightly simpler and
November 2020
more human side of Ueshiba Morihei’s personality, especially because all along, the
interlocutor is doing his best to prevent him from going into speeches that are too opaque or September 2020
philosophical.
August 2020

Mr. Ueshiba Morihei from Aiki-jujutsu June 2020

May 2020
After the talk, he faced the stenographer and said “Did
you get everything I’ve just said? Did you really April 2020
understand? There is not a single person who
March 2020
understands what I am trying to say.” He was facing the
stenographer when he spoke, but it was also directed
January 2020
towards me at the same time. It must be the essence
of budo. November 2019

He kept talking, sounding rather narcissistic. His words October 2019

were all over the place, flying around in the sky,

September 2019
between the clouds. He would sound abstract for a
moment, but then sound completely different a July 2019
The journalist, Kondo Hidezo.
second later. For us normal people, what came out of
his mouth made no sense at all. June 2019

May 2019
Even if I had been capable of understanding the words of this man who claims to have the
universe within him and put them into fine print, I get the feeling nobody would understand.
April 2019
They would all be clueless, just like me. It would all sound like nothing but gibberish.
March 2019
So what I did was take my red ink pen and and cross out the gibberish. Doing that to the
words of the man who has mastered Aiki felt scary, but also a bit exciting at the same time. February 2019

January 2019
Kondo Hidezo
December 2018

”
Kondo Hidezo: Aikido has become very popular hasn’t it?

Ueshiba Morihei: It’s thanks to people like you, sensei.

November 2018

October 2018

September 2018
Not at all.
August 2018
Yes, it’s all thanks to your support.
July 2018
You aren’t good at Aikido, you’re good at making compliments! (laughs) I wonder how old
you are? June 2018

May 2018
I have forgotten my age… I was born in 1883, but I tell people I’m 25 years old. Please keep
that in mind. (laughs) April 2018

You are the same age as I am then!2 (laughs) The human body is supposed to stop March 2018
developing at 25 years old.
February 2018

I didn’t stop. I grew until I was 55 years old. I became taller, too. I was my strongest when I January 2018
was 50. I didn’t have much strength when I was in my twenties until the age of 32 or 333.
December 2017
How about your skills in the arts of war4?
November 2017

For the fighting arts too5, I get better with age.

October 2017

Isn’t it strange that you kept growing taller until you were 50 years old? September 2017

Take it any way you wish. (laughs) If I say that too much, people will think I’m a fool. August 2017

July 2017
You must be kidding! You’re a difficult one! (laughs)
June 2017
Well, people like you, sensei, know well about what’s going on in the world, and so we, the
people, follow you. May 2017

April 2017
Incidentally, the martial arts6
are paths to harmony7. Anything
which strays from the path of
harmony is useless. I believe that the martial ways8 of our nation will only last in the
March 2017
presence of harmony.
February 2017
“The beautiful form of heaven and earth is a manifestation of a single family created by the
gods.9” We should become a single family spiritually and make an effort to improve the November 2016

nation of Japan. We have to try to achieve harmony at least here in Japan. We should
September 2016
become good friends with one another, all taking care of each other. The foundations of this
harmony is Aikido. It is this Aikido, which is the true budo. I want to get away from that August 2016
hostile world where feudal lords from the past used martial arts as tools for military
rule[hado (覇道), lit. a way of supremacy.]. July 2016

June 2016

May 2016

April 2016

March 2016

February 2016

January 2016

December 2015

November 2015

September 2015

August 2015

July 2015

June 2015
Ueshiba Morihei caricatured by Kondo Hidezo.

May 2015

You’re suddenly losing me with your Aikido philosophy!

April 2015

Democracy is the principle of immediate nonresistance. True Japanese budo is the principle March 2015
of nonresistance.
February 2015

But without resistance, it isn’t budo. That is why I don’t like it.10
December 2014

You’re talking about budo used for military rule. Kendo and Judo are said to be Japanese November 2014
budo, but they are concerned with winning, aren’t they? Since Aikido pursues harmony, it is
completely different from those arts. September 2014

August 2014
So it’s like: “Let’s be good friends, that’s why I’ll throw you”, right?

May 2014
Sensei, this is a little beneath you!
March 2014
Please forgive me if I was rude. I’m leaning towards the way of military rule. (laughs)
July 2013

When an opponent comes to attack me, I just move my body slightly to avoid his attack, and
May 2013
let him go wherever he wants. This is Aiki. In other words, I give that person freedom.
April 2013
I see. There are many ways of expressing this idea, aren’t there?
March 2013
It’s not a way of expressing it. It’s really like that.
January 2013

The Essence of budo December 2012

Is there sword in Aiki? October 2012

September 2012
Yes, there is. The sword is the opposing mirrors11 of Heaven and Earth. It represents an act of
celebration. August 2012

Now you’re loosing me! (laughs) I personally think that a sword is nothing but a murderous July 2012
weapon. Therefore, I feel sympathy only towards those who look at blades realistically
June 2012
and realize how foolish they are.

May 2012
The sword is dangerous. One shouldn’t play with dangerous things. Think of the world for
once. The world is a site of religious worship given to us. Therefore, we worship the path of April 2012
Heaven and apply the rules of Heaven to the Earth, and conduct the affairs of state
according to the way of harmony. There is no war in Heaven, is there? For tens of thousands March 2012

of years we have been getting along well with each other. If the Earth is ours, let’s celebrate
February 2012
its beauty and get along well with each other.
January 2012
The sword can’t be used for getting along. I have a feeling that we will fare better if we
make friends without it. December 2011

November 2011
The sword you are talking about is different from mine.
October 2011
I guess I am missing the point. (laughs)
September 2011
You’re really wide off the mark. The sword is a “holy sword”, that is, one of celebration. The
August 2011
sword represents opposing mirrors of our kokyu 12. You should not look at the sword. If you
look at it and play with it, you will kill people. Then it will become a weapon. Cutting people
July 2011
means being defeated by the world. Those who are cut lose too. Both are losers in that type
of practice, aren’t they? March 2011

Japan has become what it is because we have engaged in this type of practice that leads to December 2010

defeat13. So we have to practice in such a way that will lead to victory. Practice which leads to
September 2010
victory is correct practice. That’s what we should do together.
August 2010
No, I won’t! (laughs) And it’s because I can’t clearly understand what you said! There is
nothing more powerful than being ignorant. I did a little bit of Aikido, didn’t I? (laughs) April 2010

March 2010
I will show you by demonstrating it. You will understand the explanation of the sword
through this. (His son, who is accompanying him, stands and raises a stick14). He comes in
February 2010
this way. I will get hurt if I am struck, so I just avoid it like this. When he comes quickly to
thrust at me with the sword, I dodge it nimbly. It’s even faster than an electric shock. January 2010

It is faster than a flash of lightning…15 November 2009

October 2009
That term is a Chinese term. It is faster than a flash of lightning or an electric shock. This is
called katsuhayabi16. Therein lies the essence of budo. August 2009

Budo is unfair and cowardly… June 2009

May 2009
It is neither unfair nor cowardly. What’s unfair is to be hit.

April 2009
In the story books, it’s written that it’s cowardly to turn your back on the enemy.
February 2009
Those are the words of men of competitive spirit, which characterize military rule. It’s
ridiculous. You should not deal with such kinds of people. As long as you deal with those who January 2009

use violence, the world will not improve.

December 2008

At one time, military men used to practice martial arts a lot17. They practiced from the November 2008
point of view of the military government, didn’t they?
September 2007
I don’t know very much about that. Perhaps that the natural course.
December 2006

Does Aikido come from ancient times? August 2005

Its roots are in the subtle use of the kotodama18. April 2005

Now you’re starting to lose me! (laughs) November 2004

September 2004
The kotodama was created together with the universe and is being guided by nature. This
world is becoming bigger and expanding every day. It is growing daily and the Great Spirit of July 2004
the Creation of the Universe is unfolding. Although Heaven and Earth are heading towards
completion, we see many peoples, especially Japanese, who have not realized this fact. June 2004
Since it is high time for us to accept this new happiness, I want to help them awaken from
May 2004
their dream soon and to create a friendly family by gathering together their wandering
spirits. April 2004

I haven’t understood everything you’ve said but I have an approximate idea. From your December 2003
point of view, what is the worst situation?
October 2003

First of all, everything should have a center. There is the sun in the heavens, and there should
August 2003
be a center on earth19. You cannot work without a center.
July 2003
Center… The face of the Emperor is haunting me…20
May 2003

The Emperor is democracy.

April 2003

March 2003

February 2003

January 2003

December 2002

November 2002

September 2002

August 2002

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“The Emperor is democracy”.

You are thinking of the Emperor as he was before the war21…

I can’t say that exactly.

If you don’t say things clearly, it will be problematic.

What an attitude you have!

I have quite an attitude for someone who supports the military rule, don’t I?22 (laughs)

My ideas are different from that of the right wing23.

Whenever I hear the word “center”, it makes me think of the right wing.

It is absolutely not a right wing idea. What I am talking about is a system of harmony through
spiritual actions. Japanese budo is based on masakatsu 24, and it is neither for fighting, nor for
cutting people. Those who send their opponents flying follow a principle of aggression. That
kind of actions interferes with the actions others. In Aikido, we never hit the sword of the
opponent. All we have to do is raise two fingers and help him.

It’s a very thoughtful budo, isn’t it?

That’s the spirit of Japan. If we keep the past’s competitive spirit, we will continue to kill
people and loose our soul.

Each one of us has a divine mission

Have you never hurt anyone, not even once?

Let’s not get into this, there are many types of relationships. (laughs) Anyway, I am now past
those things. I participated in the Russo-Japanese War and fought against bandits, and
boarded a pirate ship.25 Since I have experienced those things, I feel ashamed when asked
about them. I want to live in harmony now.

Sorry to insist on the subject of the Emperor but to have harmony, the Emperor is
necessary.

The Emperor is the center, regardless of the social classes; military, agricultural, industrial,
and mercantile.26 In Japan, the Emperor is the center and his extensions divide the
administration of state affairs among themselves. There are three or four divisions such as
ministers, vice-ministers, and subjects, and all these are created to administrate natural state
affairs. Therefore, killing a person is the same as cutting your own finger. This is why the
subjects should be considered important. It should be a great democracy.

You mean that we should all become friends, with the Emperor as our center.

Obviously, and you know that. (laughs)

However, it would be nice if there were only good people who had good intentions, but
there are a lot of bad people with bad intentions, and if the Emperor was to be surrounded
by those, the results would be disastrous. What do you say he makes us his close
associates? (laughs)

Indeed. The things that have occurred up until now could not have been avoided, and we are
still a feudalistic country. Therefore, what I am suggesting is that we should discard our old
clothes and convert Japan into a true, new country which we should all serve. This is what I
would like to happen. You work hard and deal wisely with those you dislike and set an
example no matter what people say about you… Actually, having too many fools27 like this
would be a problem, too, wouldn’t it?

“Fool” is written with two Chinese characters yasuku28 et tamotsu29 which mean “easy to
handle”. Well, if everybody became a fool the world would be easy to handle, wouldn’t it?

I am fine with being called a fool. This fool thinks in his own way, and doesn’t belong to any
group. Those who are making a scene are the ones who want to show how great they are.
There is nothing to be gained by participating in such a group. “The beautiful form of Heaven
and Earth is a manifestation of a single family created by the kami…”30 Although I am an
ignorant fool, it is my opinion that if there is no center in a family, it is the same as several
different families living in a single household. Such a conglomeration of families doesn’t
work. Everybody insists on expressing his own opinion and a leader cannot be chosen.

But if there really is a great individual, everyone will follow him at any time. I have my
assigned mission which I must complete and you, sensei, have your own mission. A
newspaper has its own mission and a farmer his. Everyone has his own mission. Thus all we
have to do is to complete our heavenly chosen missions. If this were the case, there wouldn’t
be any disagreements, would there?31

“Monarchy is the principle of non-resistance”.

If as you said, the mission of the rich was to be rich, and that of the poor to be poor, the
poor would not accept it.

I am not talking about money here.

The World on Earth is dirty

I intend to complete my mission obediently. However, in a world where people such as

military officers and government officials prevent you from completing your mission by
putting too much emphasis on the Emperor, our country will end up in the same way as
before. However, it is pointless to complain about them not allowing you to complete
your mission since the military has weapons. We are helpless.

We don’t need that kind of things anymore.32

If we keep hitting back when we are hit, it will continue forever.

That’s why I am talking about mental elimination of militarism. There are people who have
attempted to place Japan in the center of the universe and who have died hated. There are
also those who have died prevented in their attempts to advocate democracy. Since the
world has been corrupted in this way, we should immediately discard such ways and take
prompt action. We must purify our land. You, sensei, may not know what I mean by
“purifying the land.”33 I am not talking about misogi in the old sense, which doesn’t work.

The misogi of today has already been transformed. The old things are useless, but at the
same time, we should believe in what is recorded in classical Japanese literature. The fact
that the world was created through the subtle vibrations of the 75 sounds is written there34.
Therefore, Aikido is a method of manifesting the pure spirit of all the people of the world. It
is the unity of the Heavens and Earth35. This is a great democracy. There are some who say
that the unification of state and policy is an excuse for the Emperor to create a military
government, but that is ridiculous. It is the great democracy, the great principle of
nonresistance.

I like the principle of nonresistance!

I want to associate with pacifists36. It is the religious zealots who are the most behind the
times.

You often say things I like. (laughs)

What do you think you can do for those stupid fools?

The only thing they can do is make money.

I very much enjoy praying to the kami. I feel really good when I bow my head with my hands
clasped in prayer. It is with a feeling of appreciation that I clap hands in front of the altar
when I get up in the morning. My children laugh at me, though, saying that I am old-
fashioned. I think that it is quite the opposite. I am modern. The reason for this is that I
contain the universe in my belly. I hold in my belly the ancient ages of the kami, today and
the future. The kami dwell in healthy people. Great power is given to healthy people. Look at
the sun. It is dazzling, isn’t it? But it is not at all dazzling to me and I can look at it as much as I
want.

Don’t you have bad eyes? (laughs)

I make friends with the sun. The sun is at my side. If even one star falls it influences me. I live
in the same universe.

I find it’s almost impossible to follow what you are saying. Let me ask you about the old
days. Would you relate some episodes about your feats?

“Tears of sorrow” come to power

I have forgotten those stories. When I was a young man, I thought I would serve the people
of the world using my physical strength. In those days, when I looked at the world, I only
found persons who were wise, but not physically strong. So I decided to offer my body to
everyone. For example, when I went to the home of a religious person, it was my work to
arrange everyone’s slippers37 while wearing a half-coat and an apron38.

You were a checkroom attendant in charge of footwear?

I was used to taking care of footwear and growing vegetables. It is like at the Itoen39 where
you start by learning how to clean toilets. Since I had a mission to accomplish, I couldn’t be
involved only in that kind of work. I had many low-level jobs though. Somehow, I gradually
became healthier while engaged in this kind of menial work. At one time, I was with Deguchi
Onisaburo of the Omoto religion. He said they were going to transplant a thick chinquapin
tree, this big. Many Omoto believers tried to dislodge the tree by using a stick like this, but it
didn’t budge an inch. While watching them, I suddenly decided to go and move that tree.
The moment I decided to do that, my whole body became red and warm as though I had
taken a bath, and tears began to stream out of my eyes. They were tears of indignation. I
wondered why peoples of the world couldn’t get along. At least we Japanese should be
friends. I shed tears of indignation. Then when I worked on the tree alone it moved gently,
even though it had failed to budge when many attempted to move it. My tears of
indignation brought me power in that situation. Deguchi Onisaburo Sensei said that I was
divinely inspired.

It was rather Deguchi Onisaburo who was divinely inspired, right?40 (laughs)

That was why I adopted the nickname of Rikizo41. I could move a stone bridge weighing
more a ton by myself.

You were an Omoto believer at that time. How about now?

I imagine they wouldn’t recognize me as one of them now.

What made you become a believer of Omoto at that time?

I wanted to cure my father’s illness.

Was he cured?

He died. You could say that since he died, he was cured, right? You can only be ill if you are
alive. (laughs)

You really have a mysterious way of talking. I don’t really get what you say unless I think
hard, thanks… (laughs) 

The Omoto still accept me as an ordinary member42. The Omoto religion represents the
great principle of democracy. I have never met a greater person than Deguchi Onisaburo
Sensei. He was a great advocate of democracy43. He was assumed many times mistakenly
to be a member of the communist party. He was a great man. I learned from him the study
of the kotodama. I wasn’t taught formally though, I learned naturally by being with him.

Once I dragged two leaders of the religion by the collar and took them home about
midnight. They begged me not to take them like that, but I told them I found their opinions
to be really rubbish and took them home. I had many matches, but was never beaten. There
was a time when I went around carrying a bamboo sword.

Aiki is victory over one’s own sword

You also beat a sumo player, didn’t you?

There were Tenryu44 and Onosato 45. When the latter came to attack me here, I lifted him
lightly and threw him. There was a man named Matsumoto Toranosuke who, I regret to say,
passed away in the Soviet Union, who suggested that Tenryu test my strength. Tenryu was
laughing then. He was over six feet tall and weighed something over 240 pounds. I was such
a small man it was impossible to have a sumo match with him. Regardless, I told him to have
a try. I grabbed his hand lightly and I told him to push me back hard. Although he was
pushing me with all his might, I said to him, “You don’t have much power, do you?”. Then I
moved slightly and he fell. I was sitting the whole time.

In any peaceful Japanese budo, harmony is important46. You have power when you are calm.
If you are too eager, you lose. In other words, Aiki means to conquer something correctly.
You overcome your own sword. This is called katsuhayabi and is much faster than the sun,
the moon and the earth. The reason is that you are the universe itself. There is nothing faster
or slower in the universe. There is nothing greater.

I am sure that not even Tenryu could deal with the universe. What did you do during the
war?

I was alone during the war. I was in charge of all of the army and navy schools. I had three
cars for my private use and I never used public transportation. They wouldn’t let me. At that
time, when I traveled I would get a first class white ticket. Now it is hard for me when I travel,
because my ticket is the regular red ticket.

Did the military officers understand the spirit of Aikido?

No, they didn’t. Military officers base themselves on battle but I based myself on my own
standard, on Aiki.

Even if you explained this to them they would not have answered, “Aye, aye, Sir”, wouldn’t
they?

They would just have said, “Aiya, aiya!”47

Mr. Morihei Ueshiba’s bio

He was born in 188148 in the Wakayama prefecture. When he was 17 years old, he studied
Kito-ryu Ju-jutsu as well as different forms of swordsmanship such Shinkage-ryu and
Yaegaki-ryu while working as a merchant. In 1910, he went to Hokkaido and the same year,
he started studying with Takeda Sokaku from Daito-ryu jujutsu. By 1919, his Daito-ryu Aiki-
jujutsu apprenticeship ended49. Before the war, he taught in the army and navy schools, but
after the war he gave up his dojo to his son and became a farmer in Iwama, Ibaraki
Prefecture. The dojo is at 1011 Wakamatsucho, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo.

Thanks to Jordy Delage for his assistance with finding the name of the author and for his advice regarding the
religious implications of some of Ueshiba’s answers.

1. Kondo Hidezo (近藤 日出造, 1908 – 1979) 

2. Kondo is 48 at the time of this interview and Ueshiba is 72. 
3. This would take us to 1915-1916, shortly after Ueshiba had established a settlement in
Hokkaido and close to the time when he met Takeda Sokaku in Engaru and learned
Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu. 
4. The term that Kondo uses here is bugei (武芸), which historically precedes the use of
the term budo, and is often used to designates fighting techniques designed for actual
military combat. Given Kondo’s particular stance on war, I suspect this might have been
a deliberate choice. 
5. Ueshiba chooses to also use the term bugei 
6. Ueshiba uses the terms bujutsu (武術, lit. war technique) 
7. 和合, lit. harmony, cohesion 
8. Ueshiba now uses the term budo (武道), which suggest that for him, like for many
other Japanese authors through history, the terms bujutsu and budo are quite
interchangeable 
9. 『うるわしきこの天地のみ姿は主のつ くりし一家なりけり』 
10. To give some context, Kondo was arrested at least three times before the war due to
the critical nature of his cartoons towards the military, especially in regards to its
budget expansion. During the war, he did end up working for the propaganda
department of the army but he later expressed regrets for doing such work, even
calling it a war crime. Towards the end of WWII he was drafted into a fighting unit in
Kumamoto. Though Japan’s surrender was proclaimed on August 15th, 1945, his unit
decided to continue fighting, so Kondo, along with several others, left secretly at
midnight on August 16 and Kondo returned to his home in Nagano. 
11. Awasekagami (合わせ鏡), two mirrors placed facing each other so that they create the
image of an infinite tunnel. 
12. Kokyu (呼吸), breath 
13. At the time of the interview, the US occupation of Japan had ceased only four years
earlier and Japan’s gross domestic product has not returned to the level it was before
the war. 
14. It is of course Ueshiba Kisshomaru (植芝 吉祥丸, 1921 – 1999). 
15. The term used by the journalist is denkousekka (電光石火), which literally means
“speed of light”. 
16. Katsuhayabi (勝速日), lit. a day of quick victory. This is one of Ueshiba Morihei’s
favorite expressions and it often appears in his calligraphy. 
17. Kondo is using the term bujutsu here, perhaps to distinguish it from the more modern
combat techniques of contemporary armed forces. 
18. The kotodama (言霊) is the spiritual power attributed to Japanese sounds. By this,
Ueshiba implies that Aikido is as old as the world. 
19. Chuusshin (中心), a term used to refer to the center of a circle, for example. 
20. Kondo is likely saying this because the Japanese vision of the world is centered on the
Emperor. 
21. Kondo is talking about the same person, Hirohito (裕仁, 1901 – 1989), but different
modes of governance before and after the war. He is implying that Ueshiba is referring
to the Emperor that led Japan during its expansionist endeavors. 
22. Note that Kondo had previously been critical of the Emperor on a number of
occasions, most notably around 1946, when he drew a cartoon depicting Emperor
Showa without both hands, resulting in a ban of the newspaper he worked for. It’s
actually following the loss of this job that he was hired as a critic for the Yomiuri
Shinbun (読売新聞) in 1947 and started the columns from which the present interview
is taken. 
23. Given the context, one must understand it as a rather hard line right. 
24. Masakatsu (正勝), literally the “real victory”. 
25. In an interview that Stanley published in AikiNews #79, Ueshiba Kisshomaru stated
that his father never saw actual battle in Russia, and that he was only part of what he
called “mopping up” operations. 
26. Ueshiba refers to the social pyramid of the Edo era, where the Emperor was at the top
of the hierarchy, with under him, in order of status, the court nobility, the shogun, the
daimyo, samurai, peasants, craftsmen, and at the bottom, the merchants. Interestingly,
Ueshiba started his life as the son of a land owner, then briefly set himself up as a
merchant, and then embraced the warrior path by enrolling in the army and becoming
a full time budo practitioner, hence elevating his own status. Even though such
hierarchy no longer really existed officially in Ueshiba’s time (i.e. after the Meiji
restoration), it still carried some implicit importance in the minds of many people, and
I suspect that Ueshiba might have been sensitive to it. 
27. The term used by Ueshiba is ahou (阿呆) written in the text as アホウ. 
28. Yasuku (安く), cheap. 
29. Tamotsu (保つ), maintain, keep. 
30. 「このうるわしき天地のみ姿は主のつくりしものなり」, this is the same poem
that O-Sensei recited earlier. 
31. A common misconception is that the Japanese think of harmony and democracy in
similar terms as in the West. We see from Ueshiba’s words that in fact, the notions of
equality and individual freedom are far less prominent. 
32. Ueshiba is referring to weapons. 
33. Ueshiba uses the term kokudo no misogi (国土の禊). Kokudo (国土) means the
kingdom or country. Misogi (禊) is a shinto purification ritual where the body is washed.
He therefore intends to purify his country. 
34. Ueshiba once again refers to the kotodama here, in which the sounds a, i, u, e, and o
gave birth to spiritual matter, fire water, yin and yang, and evolved into 75 sounds that
maintain existence. 
35. Ueshiba speaks of saisei ichi (祭政一致), a concept that states that religion and politics
are unified and integrated. 
36. Heiwa shugi (平和主義), which literally means “pacifism” but the definition of which
can be somewhat different in Japan compared to what it is in the West (see another
note below). 
37. The tradition in Japan is for a host to points the shoes of visitors towards the door after
they took them off, in order to facilitate their exit later. 
38. Ueshiba refers to the uniform of a house servant. 
39. Itoen (一灯園) is a foundation created by Nishida Tsuneka in 1905. Although Itoen can
be considered a religion, there is no priest and a practitioner venerates nature and life
itself. 
40. I have the feeling that Kondo is addressing an obvious contradiction in Ueshiba’s
discourse. Indeed, Deguchi, the leader of the Omoto sect, tended to portray himself
very publicly as the equal of the Emperor, hence contesting  his position as the center
of the universe. Deguchi was also openly critical of tennosei (天皇制), the Shinto-
based emperor government system, which caused him and his followers, including
Ueshiba, to get into some serious trouble with the Japanese authorities. This lead to
the two brutal repressions of the sect in 1929 and 1935, and both times, ended with
the incarceration of Deguchi. Ueshiba was left more or less untouched both times but
he progressively put some distance between himself and Deguchi after the second
incident. 
41. Rikizo (力蔵), lit. power accumulator. 
42. By ordinary believer, Ueshiba implies that his position is different from that of the past
when he was a key member of the Omoto community of Ayabe. 
43. The reader is probably getting confused at this stage with the numerous use of the
word “democracy”. To work this out, we must first set the scene : Through Deguchi,
Ueshiba was introduced to a number of Japan’s far-right figures, including members of
ultra-nationalist groups such as the Sakurakai. Ueshiba also actually served as a
bodyguard for the Sakurakai’s founder Hashimoto Kingoro and meetings of the group
were held at his dojo. This may sound completely at odds with Ueshiba’s constant
references to pacifism and democracy but as I stated above, the definition of pacifism
in the Japanese mind is not the same as that of the western humanist ideals. First, as
Ueshiba suggested above, it is certainly not egalitarian. Also, Ueshiba and Deguchi
both believed in establishing peace through a sort of benevolent dictatorship, and
through the adoption by the entire world of the Japanese social structure. The ultra-
nationalists had the same ideals and they were ready to accomplish this by force if
necessary. I am personally unsure how far down the war path Deguchi was ready to go.

44. Tenryu Saburo (天竜 三郎) was a professional sumo wrestler. He met Ueshiba Morihei
in Manchuria in 1939 and became his pupil. 
45. Onosato Mansuke (大ノ里 萬助) was a wrestler who reached the rank of Ozeki. 
46. Heiwa budo (平和武道), martial art of peace. 
47. Ueshiba is doing a word play with what the journalist has just said, and which means
“on guard!” 
48. This is an error, since Ueshiba was actually born in 1883 
49. This is not correct since Ueshiba resumed training under Sokaku a few years later in
Ayabe, but he did leave Hokkaido in 1919 due to his father’s illness 

Guillaume Erard interview Morihei Ueshiba

Guillaume Erard
Guillaume Erard is an author and educator, permanent resident of Japan. He
trained for over ten years at the Aikikai Headquarters in Tokyo, where he
received the 5th Dan from Aikido Doshu Moriteru Ueshiba. He studied with
some of the world's leading Aikido instructors, including several direct
students of O Sensei, and has produced a number of well regarded video
interviews with them. Guillaume now heads the Yokohama AikiDojo and he
regularly travels back to Europe to give lectures and seminars. Guillaume
also holds the title of 5th Dan in Daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu and serves as Deputy
Secretary for International Affairs of the Shikoku Headquarters. He is
passionate about science and education and he holds a PhD in Molecular
Biology.

VIEW ALL POSTS    

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and the Future of Aikido

18 comments

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Richard Small
March 28, 2019 at 6:52 am

Well, there we have it. O-Sensei shared both his secrets and his dreams quite
clearly if the soul was listening to him. Just using your ears and the thinking mind is
what leaves you with the thought of gibberish. He remained a master of aiki
throughout, regardless of the questions and attitude to which he was exposed. I
read this interview and noted O-Sensei’s words as I would those of a kindly old
uncle who only ever wanted the best for me … and you. Brilliant interview and I am
gratefull for having the chance to read it.
It reminds us of the worthiness of our journey. Richard.

Reply

Dmitri Kostromitin
March 28, 2019 at 7:35 am

I sometimes notice the term “sensei” used when addressing a writer or (as case
may be) a journalist.

Reply


Guillaume Erard
March 28, 2019 at 5:04 pm

True, but considering the vast age and status difference, I thought it
was worthy of mentioning. I clarified that part a bit in the text,
thanks.

Reply

John Benner
March 28, 2019 at 9:00 am

What a delightful piece! I appreciate the fact that the journalist Kondo was not
making this easy for O Sensei, and I note O Sensei’s playfulness in the face of such
disrespect. Throughout the interview O Sensei is consistent with his own quote
from the interview “You work hard and deal wisely with those you dislike and set
an example no matter what people say about you…”

It is really wonderful to have actual O Sensei quotes we can connect to a specific

time and place. John Stevens’s book is an invaluable resource but it lacks the
specificity of when and where each quote took place so it is harder to contextualize
what O Sensei was saying or to determine developments in his thinking over time.

One request I have to help me in my training: I have been reading in a couple of

places there is a distinction between O Sensei’s philosophy and Western pacifism,
it comes up here when you note that the Japanese connotation of pacifism is
different than the English meaning. Could one of Aikido Journal’s writers elaborate
on that? I suspect that this disconnect between these ideas may have led to some
misunderstandings of Aikido philosophy on my part.

Reply

G-lonnell
March 28, 2019 at 9:17 am

“It’s not a way of expressing it. It is really like that.”

This simple phrase finds its way into the mouths of everyone who has practiced
Aikido and tries to explain it to someone who hasn’t. The difference here, in the the
most remarkable personal interview of Morihei Ueshiba that I have ever read, is
that The Founder rises to the subtle challenge of this satirist to make Aiki and
nonresistance as a way of life clear and understandable to anyone with an open
mind.

The Founder–even when heavily edited by Mr. Kondo–was very descriptive about
Aiki and what it’s truly for. Further, he seems to imply that Aikido has a genuine
place in post-war Japan and the larger world. Historians have made clear that O-
Sensei was very much a Japanese nationalist before World War 2. He has by the
time of this 1950s interview become something of a Japanese “exceptionalist”, it
seems. I wonder, is this a brief period before illness motivates him to completely
retire to Iwama?

I can’t thank you enough for this!

Reply

Mark DeFillo
March 28, 2019 at 12:20 pm

As Dmitri Kostromitin also notes, it’s common in Japan for writers to be addressed
as Sensei along with other respected professions; no doubt this respect for writers
is rooted in the Confucian respect for scholars. As such, it is no wonder that O
Sensei might use it for the writer who was interviewing him.

Reply

Guillaume Erard
March 28, 2019 at 3:48 pm

Indeed. The thing is, Kondo was not the standard, well educated
writer from Todai, he was a mangaka who dropped out from
education. What I was trying to highlight is the contrast between the
way Kondo talks to Ueshiba and Ueshiba’s response that is unusual. I
will add it in the notes if it wasn’t clear enough.

Reply

Adam Sorkin
March 28, 2019 at 6:33 pm

Thank you for this piece.

Would it be possible to see the Japanese version? I am curious to read some

portions in the original language.

Take care!

Reply


Guillaume Erard
March 28, 2019 at 6:37 pm

Sure, I will scan it when I get back. Any insight would be welcome
because there are a couple of places whith which I’m not 100％
confident.

Reply


Minoru TANAKA
March 29, 2019 at 6:14 am

An interview which reminds me of a short film made

probably at that period by NHK (?), I looked an video
somewhere and a couple of years ago. Also, am I
interested in getting a glance at the Kondo’s article in
Japanese.
Thanks a lot in advance.
Minoru

Reply


Saki Sato
April 2, 2019 at 9:47 am

I would love to see the original Japanese version as

well so I can share with some native-speaking friends.
Very interesting interview, I really appreciate you
translation and footnotes for context!

Reply
Fr Douglas Skoyles SSC
March 29, 2019 at 7:32 pm

I too must add my thanks for your publication of this remarkable interview. It does
great credit to O-Sensei that he could do verbal Aiki with this
journalist/.satirist/comedian; the Founder gave as good as he got or better! Thank
you, too, Dr Erard, for your excellent footnotes.

Reply

Wayne Gorski
March 31, 2019 at 8:25 pm

Wonderful insight into O’Sensei’s Aikido…Thank you!

Reply

Keni Lynch
April 5, 2019 at 6:11 pm

Thank you Guillaume for this translation. I enjoyed the humor. Spiritual people
have to talk a little funny sometimes to get their authentic message through. How
they talk really depends on who they are addressing and on who they are being
addressed by. I also think it would be beneficial to address O-Sensei’s vision of
world peace through harmony,’ ideologically speaking. It would obviously be an
assemblage of Omoto beliefs within a Japanese hierarchical context, but how
much of that context he would have been OK to let go, upon dialogue with
foreigners, had he been alive today, is debatable. If his commitment was to
‘universal love,’ and his ignorance of previous and subsequent scholarship on the
question was huge, then it is possible, I would argue, that he could have been
persuaded to change his opinion about the Emperor being at the center, hierarchy,
etc. Who knows..! One thing I do know though is that the Japanese are committed
to the Confucian principle of ‘learning,’ and that is no small lesson. We, in the West,
are not as blessed with the same fervor, which might explain, I think it’s fair to say,
our general lack of advancement in the art even after all these years compared to
the Japanese.

Reply

Pascal Verhille
April 21, 2019 at 3:48 pm

Stan Pranin is certainly happy and perhaps even impressed by such an amazing
research work. One’s can learn so much about O-Sensei psychology at this time of
his life. Merci beaucoup, Sir Guillaume !

Reply


Guillaume Erard
October 15, 2019 at 9:42 pm

I doubt that anyone can ever contribute at a level equivalent to that

of Stanley’s work but I’m happy if I can help moving it ever so
slightly forward.

Reply

David Lewis
October 15, 2019 at 9:30 am

This was fascinating! Thank you very much. I came across this on the same day as a
noticing the interview with the current doshu, O-sensei’s grandson, and the
contrast could not be more striking.

Reply

Marceau Bôle-Richard
March 7, 2020 at 1:08 am

Thank you for sharing this work.

It’s amusing to see the social and human part of Morihei Ueshiba, with lots of
history and grammatical notes.

Still, I find difficult to grasp his mind and point of view about pacifism, democracy,
freedom.

Surely he had individual flaws but I always wonder from stories and testimonies,
how true and close he was to the «right choices» for Aikido’s development towards
the very end.

Recently I was thinking off the mat about the Irimi concept, quite big in the new
dojo where I practice. I love it but was kind of opposing it to the circular concept I
love too.
And something hit me, as everything is double, got two sides, you really have to be
able to «destroy/kill/shattered/blend and take the center/Irimi…» (of) your
opponent physically and mentally, if you want to be able not to do so, to prevent,
to disengage, to save and to protect two fighters.
Those mastering this have to be able from the exact opposite, how could you
master one side of the coin ? You own the coin or you’re not.
Anyway, I believe that O-Sensei must have been a real human being, a balanced
one.

Sorry for going a bit of topic.

Au plaisir,

Marceau

Reply

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