Oscar O'Con Interview

O'Con
[Start of recorded material]
Paul Henry: Today's date is Wednesday, January 11, 2023. The current time is
2:15 in the afternoon. This is a recorded interview with Corporal Oscar
O'Con, who is the subject of the San Rafael Police Department administrative
personnel investigation. Corporal O'Con is represented by attorney Julia Fox.
Conducting the interview is myself, Paul Henry.
10
11 Before we begin the interview, I want to advise you of two sections of
12 the San Rafael Police Department policy 320, which apply to this interview.
13 And they are: 320.5.1 laws, rules and orders subsection B, it's a violation
14 of policy to disobey any legal directive or order issued by any department
15 member of a higher rank; --
16
17 -- 320.5.8 performance subsection C, it's also a violation of policy to
18 fail to participate in, to give false or misleading statements or
19 misrepresent or omit material information to a supervisor or other person in
20 a position of authority in connection with any investigation or in the
21 reporting of any department-related business. Do you understand each of these
22 policy sections?
23
24 Oscar O'Con: I do.
25
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SRPD000392
Paul Henry: Do you understand that I'm considered a designee of the chief of
police?
Oscar O'Con: I understand.
Paul Henry: I now give you a direct order to answer all questions, to answer
them truthfully. And I'm advising you that failure to do so could lead to
disciplinary action up to and including termination with the San Rafael
Police Department. Do you understand?
10
11 Oscar O'Con: I understand.
12
13 Paul Henry: You've read and signed this form. Is that correct?
14
15 Oscar O'Con: That is correct.
16
17 Paul Henry: Okay. I'm going to read you a Miranda waiver. You have the right
18 to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you ina
19 court of law. You have a right to an attorney. If you can't afford an
20 attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish
21 one.
22
23 You can decide at any time from this moment on to terminate the
24 interview and exercise these rights. Do you understand each of these rights
25 as I've read them to you?
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Oscar O'Con: I do.
Paul Henry: Having these rights in mind, do you wish to talk to me now?
Oscar O'Con: No.
Paul Henry: I'm not going to read you the Lybarger admonition. I wish to
advise you that the San Rafael Police Department is questioning you as part
of an administrative investigation. You'll be asked questions specifically
10 directed and narrowly related to the performance of your official duties or
11 fitness for office.
12
13 You are entitled to all the rights and privileges guaranteed by the
14 laws and the constitution of this state and the constitution of the United
15 States including the right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself and to
16 have a representative of your choice present during any questioning.
17
18 I further wish to advise you that, if you refuse to testify or to
19 answer questions related to the performance of your official duties or
20 fitness for duty, you will be subject to the San Rafael Police Department
21 charges that would result in your dismissal from the police department.
22
23 If you do answer, neither your statements or any information or
24 evidence that is gained by the reason of such statements can be used against
25 you in any subsequent criminal proceeding. However, these statements may be
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SRPD000394
used against you in relation to subsequent San Rafael Police Department
charges. Do you understand?
Oscar O'Con: I do.
Paul Henry: Okay. And you've read and signed this form?
Oscar O'Con: I have.
10 Paul Henry: Okay. I'm now going to order you to answer all questions. Do you
11 understand?
12
13 Oscar O'Con: I understand.
14
15 Paul Henry: Okay. Can you please spell your first and last name?
16
17 Oscar O'Con: Yes. Oscar, O-S-C-A-R, O'Con, O-C-O-N.
18
19 Paul Henry: And Julia, will you spell your name just so that the transcriber
20 can get used to your voice?
21
22 Julia Fox: Sure. Julia Fox, J-U-L-I-A F-O-X.
23
24 Paul Henry: Okay. Oscar, how long have you worked for the San Rafael Police
25 Department?
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SRPD000395
Oscar O'Con: As a -- as -- in whole, I have worked for the police
department for approximately seven years, sworn approximately five or -- give
or take some time.
Paul Henry: Okay. Do you have other law enforcement experience?
Oscar O'Con: I do not.
Paul Henry: Okay. What is your current position?
10
11 Oscar O'Con: Uh, police corporal.
12
13 Paul Henry: And how long have you been in this position?
14
15 Oscar O'Con: Uh, as of today or as of the time of this incident?
16
17 Paul Henry: As of the time of the incident.
18
19 Oscar O'Con: A year and some change.
20
21 Paul Henry: Okay. And, uh, do you have -- have you worked other assignments
22 while at the police department besides patrol?
23
24 Oscar O'Con: I have.
25
Paul Henry: And what have you done?
O'Con - 5
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Oscar O'Con: Uh, including auxiliary or full-t -- or like full-time t --
Paul Henry: As a police officer.
Oscar O'Con: Uh, I've worked -- at the time of this incident or now too?
I just want to clarify this like --
Paul Henry: At the time of the incident.
10
11 Oscar O'Con: Uh, time I'd worked as just a-a patrol officer, a police
12 corporal, uh, police detective, a, uh, gang specialist, uh, as a SWAT member,
13 a, uh, academy liaison, uh, FTO -- I'm trying to think if there's anything
14 else -- uh, as a school resource officer. I believe that's it.
15
16 Paul Henry: Okay. Do corporals at the San Rafael Police Department have
17 supervisory authority?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: We do.
20
21 Paul Henry: Can you describe the responsibilities of a corporal at the
22 department?
23
24 Oscar O'Con: Well, you operate as both, uh, like a kind of in between
25 between a sergeant and an officer. Y -- some days, you act -- you basically
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operate as an officer. And some days, you operate as, uh, supervisory duties
like as if a sergeant.
So if there's no sergeant on duty, then you can -- you basically fill
that role as a -- aS a Supervisor and manage the streets and any-any
responsibilities as an officer in charge basically as a sergeant would be
acting on a patrol team.
Uh, in between that, responsibilities can change depending on
10 incidences. And if there's no supervisor readily available and they're
11 handling maybe another priority incident, you could operate as a supervisor
12 while also being -- holding a beat or responding to emergency calls for
13 service. Uh, part of the responsibilities of also a corporal is training. So
14 that would be like field training.
15
16 Paul Henry: Okay. Do corporals author evaluations?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Uh, like monthlies or yearlies?
19
20 Paul Henry: Correct, of officers.
21
22 Oscar O'Con: Uh, sometimes, they do.
23
24 Paul Henry: Okay. Uh, were you assigned to a patrol team on the day of this
25 incident?
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Oscar O'Con: I was.
Paul Henry: And which team was that?
Oscar O'Con: I believe it was team three.
Paul Henry: And what days and hours do team three work?
Oscar O'Con: It's usually weekday graveyards. So it would be -- it would
10 be primarily Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays 5:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. --
11
12 Paul Henry: Okay.
13
14 Oscar O'Con: -- and then occasional Sundays.
15
16 Paul Henry: Okay. And is there also a sergeant assigned to that team?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: There is.
19
20 Paul Henry: And who was that?
21
22 Oscar O'Con: I believe it was Sergeant Cleland.
23
24 Paul Henry: Okay. And on the day of this incident, was Sergeant Cleland off
25 work?
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Oscar O'Con: He was.
Paul Henry: And so you were the supervisor, uh, for the patrol team on that
day?
Oscar O'Con: Yes.
Paul Henry: Okay. And did you then -- was it your responsibility to assume
all of the supervisory duties of a sergeant on that day?
10
11 Oscar O'Con: For that given day, yes.
12
13 Paul Henry: Okay. Have patrol officers been given any direction or
14 encouragement to provide extra patrol in the Canal area of town?
15
16 Oscar O'Con: They have.
17
18 Paul Henry: Okay. Could y -- what is your understanding of what direction
19 they've been given?
20
21 Oscar O'Con: Uh, can you please, uh, rephrase --
22
23 Paul Henry: So I-I --
24
25 Oscar O'Con: -- or clarify what-what you mean by that?
O'Con - 9
SRPD000400
Paul Henry: [sighs] Okay. Uh, is one of the objectives of the patrol division
to provide added enforcement of that particular area of town?
Oscar O'Con: I would say just in general to town. It is providing --
Paul Henry: Okay. S --
Oscar O'Con: -- pro-proactive enforcement of whatever-whatever quality-
of-life issues. But --
10
12
13 Oscar O'Con: -- if you're asking if there's -- if there's been passed
14 down a message for extra, extra enforcement or extra patrols in terms of
15 certain quality-of-life or issues that are facing that community -- is that -
16 - is that what you're asking from an --
17
18 Paul Henry: Y --
19
20 Oscar O'Con: -- administrative standpoint coming down the chain?
21
22 Paul Henry: Yes.
23
24 Oscar O'Con: Okay. Yes. There has been.
25
Paul Henry: Okay. Can you describe this area of town?
O'Con - 10
SRPD000401
Oscar O'Con: Yes. It's, uh -- this demographic of town -- so the primary
demographic in that area is-is Hispanic, that is of, uh, Hispanic descent
whether it's from several different Latin-American countries, primarily
Guatemalan, uh, Salvadorian, but m-mainly Central America. Uh, it is a
higher-crime area --
Paul Henry: Okay.
10 Oscar O'Con: -- especially that community in that specific -- where this
11 incident took place. Uh, that area has many different quality-of-life and
12 other issues like high crime that we-we-we just discussed. Uh, it is also of,
13 uh, th -- the, uh, economic demographic is also different. So it's a lower-
14 income community, a-at least certain pockets of that-that beat.
15
16 Paul Henry: Mm-hmm. Is it a-an area of town that is -- gets higher volume of
17 calls per service?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: Correct.
20
21 Paul Henry: Okay. Do people congregate in this area of town frequently drink
22 alcohol outside?
23
24 Oscar O'Con: Yes.
25
O'Con - 11
SRPD000402
Paul Henry: Okay. Is drinking alcohol in public a violation of any law or
city ordinance?
Oscar O'Con: Yes.
Paul Henry: Okay. Is it, uh, typically treated as an infraction? If someone
were to cite somebody for drinking in public, is that generally treated as an
infraction?
10 Oscar O'Con: I believe so.
11
12 Paul Henry: Y-you wouldn't take somebody into custody for drinking in public,
13 correct?
14
15 Oscar O'Con: If-if that's the sole violation, generally no.
16
18
19 Oscar O'Con: However -- may I add to that, please?
20
21 Paul Henry: Of course.
22
23 Oscar O'Con: However, that-that doesn't preclude -- there's other --
24 there's other circumstances if -- outside of if you have -- of course, it-it
25 comes down to the determination of the officer. But yeah. Generally, i-if
they have good identification, all those different factors --
O'Con - 12
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Paul Henry: Mm-hmm.
Oscar O'Con: -- that would lead that -- it could -- it could be, uh,
resolved with a-a citation or -- then, that-that-that is --
Paul Henry: Can an officer choose to take somebody into custody and book them
at the jail for drinking in public if that's the sole charge?
10 Oscar O'Con: Well, gen -- uh, if there was identification issues, then
11 that could potentially be a route.
12
13 Paul Henry: Okay. That would be an added charge though, right, typically?
14
15 Oscar O'Con: W -- could potentially.
16
18
19 Oscar O'Con: Uh, it's hard to say definitively.
20
21 Paul Henry: Do, uh, Santa Rosa PD officers frequently cite people for
22 drinking in public?
23
24 Oscar O'Con: My apologies. You said Santa Rosa, sir.
25
Paul Henry: I'm sorry. That's because SRPD is --
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SRPD000404
Oscar O'Con: [No worries, man. Can you c --] --
Paul Henry: -- what I'm used to.
Oscar O'Con: -- please repeat?
Paul Henry: [laughs] Do San Rafael officers, uh, typically -- or often cite
people for drinking in public?
10
11 Oscar O'Con: Uh, that-that's hard to say. I -- often, I -- it-it-it-it
12 varies. I-I-I can't definitively answer that question.
13
14 Paul Henry: Okay. Do you -- uh, if I -- if I work for you -- I'm on your
15 patrol team, and I, uh, author a citation -- do you review that at some point
16 at the end of the shift? Do I turn it in, and-and you take a look at it?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Not generally. Usually, we'll go to -- like if it's an
19 infraction, it'll usually go to what we call a [pinch] box or, uh, a citation
20 box where it goes -- gets routed through records.
21
22 Paul Henry: So a patrol supervisor or a corporal in your case doesn't
23 normally review citations?
24
25 Oscar O'Con: Not unless they're attached to some sort of misdemeanor
report.
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SRPD000405
Paul Henry: Okay. Did you review any body-worn-camera videos in preparation
for your interview today?
Oscar O'Con: Just as we did prior to --
Paul Henry: Okay.
Oscar O'Con: -- starting this interview.
10
11 Paul Henry: Okay. And so then, you looked at your videos, uh, of your
12 interviews of the three subjects that were contacted, correct?
13
14 Oscar O'Con: Briefly, yes.
15
16 Paul Henry: And then, you also looked at, uh, the videos of Officer Nail and
17 Officer Mazariegos, correct?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: Briefly, yes.
20
21 Paul Henry: Okay. Did you respond to the scene of an arrest on July 27, 2022
22 at around, uh, 7:00 at night, uh, where Officer Mazariegos and Officer Nail
23 made an arrest on Windward Way?
24
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Paul Henry: Okay. How did you first become aware of this incident?
Oscar O'Con: By radio.
Paul Henry: Okay. So what did you hear that made you aware of it?
Oscar O'Con: Uh, I can't recall specifically what it was. But to my
recollection, uh, given that it's been a long period of time, I believe it
was -- that they were asking for-for, uh, officer -- or for extra assistance
10 as they were -- they needed code-three cover.
11
13
14 Oscar O'Con: B --
15
16 Paul Henry: So did you respond then on your own? Or were you dispatched?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Uh, I-I don't recall whether I was -- I-I don't recall
19 whether I was dispatched or I put myself in route and self-dispatched.
20
22
23 Oscar O'Con: Uh, I believe I was already in the car just kind of driving
24 towards that direction.
25
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SRPD000407
Paul Henry: Okay. So when you first -- as far as you can remember, when you
first heard about or became aware of this, you were already on patrol or
driving around in your car?
Oscar O'Con: Correct.
Paul Henry: Do you recall where you responded from?
Oscar O'Con: No.
10
11 Paul Henry: Did you respond code three?
12
13 Oscar O'Con: Uh, I believe briefly.
14
15 Paul Henry: Okay. Who was present when you arrived?
16
17 Oscar O'Con: Obviously, Officer Nail and Officer Mazariegos, uh --
18
19 Paul Henry: Mm-hmm.
20
21 Oscar O'Con: -- I believe the fire department was already on scene. I do
22 not recall what other officers were already there.
23
24 Paul Henry: Were you the last to arrive, do you think?
25
Oscar O'Con: I don't recall.
O'Con - 17
SRPD000408
Paul Henry: Was Officer Schraeder there?
Oscar O'Con: At some point during it.
Paul Henry: Okay. But you don't remember if he got there after you or before
you?
Oscar O'Con: Yeah. I do not recall.
10
11 Paul Henry: Okay. How about Officer Gamble?
12
13 Oscar O'Con: Th -- again, with-with all-all the officers, I-I don't
14 recall at what point they arrived or if they were already there --
15
17
18 Oscar O'Con: -- at this time.
19
20 Paul Henry: Were you the supervisor at the scene?
21
22 Oscar O'Con: I was.
23
24 Paul Henry: Did any other supervisor respond to the call?
25
Oscar O'Con: No.
O'Con - 18
SRPD000409
Paul Henry: Okay. As the supervisor at the scene, what were your
responsibilities?
Oscar O'Con: Uh, primary is just, uh, understanding what injuries were-
were t -- like if there was an injuries and like immediate necessity for
medical assistance and basically safety of life, of preservation of life if
anybody was seriously injured. So that was my primary concern.
10 But other responsibilities from that is, of course, administrative
11 stuff. So it would be -- is figuring out injuries, what investigative steps
12 needed to be taken both for the criminal component of this and then also for
13 administrative purposes, the use-of-force portion of this.
14
15 Paul Henry: Okay. Did you brief any of your supervisors about this incident
16 on that day?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Y --
19
20 Paul Henry: Like a lieutenant?
21
22 Oscar O'Con: I don't recall.
23
24 Paul Henry: Okay. Do you recall ever r -- briefing a sergeant or a lieutenant
25 about this incident on any other day?
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Oscar O'Con: Like specifically -- uh, and-and this is just to clarify.
Like do you mean specifically like going in, talking to them, like making a
phone call or like going into an office?
Paul Henry: Mm-hmm. Hey, I just want to give you a heads up. This is an in --
this incident happened.
Oscar O'Con: I d -- I don't recall. I know that I sent out an-an email.
We have a department-wide PD shift log that we send out --
10
12
13 Oscar O'Con: -- regarding incidents that take place. And in that -- in
14 that email, that's basically, uh, information for all sworn personnel. And
15 that -- in that email, it does state that there was a use of force. And it
16 does give information regarding th-the actual incident that took place or a
17 summary of it. So if that counts as-as something to that degree, then, yeah,
18 there was -- there was information shared departmentwide about it.
19
20 Paul Henry: Okay. What did you do while you were at the scene? What
21 investigative steps did you take? What directions did you give?
22
23 Oscar O'Con: Uh, so there's a lot of different moving aspects. For what
24 I can recall at this time, uh, I remember: checking in on-on everybody's
25 welfare, making sure that there was appropriate steps for medical aid for --
both to the person that force was used but also the officers and-and document
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any sort of injuries; uh, delegating tasks both for the criminal component
and, uh, for the next steps that were -- need to take for-for medical
necessity.
So that also included interviewing the person that was under arrest
that was the force used against and then the other two individuals, uh, that
were present during the incident -- during the detain -- and were also
detained.
10 Uh, also included talking with the-the two officers involved, uh,
11 delegating tasks about, uh, criminal investigation, uh, photographing,
12 documenting everything, uh, and then delegating who was going to be tasked
13 with taking the person that force was used against and that was in custody to
14 the hospital which wasn't one of the officers that was involved in the use of
15 force so kind of trying to have a little bit of separation there. Uh, and
16 then, the after the fact is just reviewing reports and administrative stuff.
17
18 Paul Henry: Okay. What tasks did you delegate with regard to the
19 investigation of the criminal aspect of this?
20
21 Oscar O'Con: I-I don't recall specifically what-what tasks I delegated
22 out and to who.
23
24 Paul Henry: Okay. Did you ask someone to make sure that photographs were
25 taken?
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Oscar O'Con: I did.
Paul Henry: Okay. Do you recall who you asked to do that?
Oscar O'Con: I do not recall. I-I think it's in the-the video footage.
But --
Paul Henry: Okay.
10 Oscar O'Con: I c -- I could give you a-a guesstimate. But it's not going
11 to -- it's not going to be as accurate as what-what's stated on video --
12
14
15 Oscar O'Con: -- or showed on video.
16
17 Paul Henry: Did you interview Officer Nail about what happened?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: Uh, briefly just to get an understanding of g -- like the
20 general of what happened.
21
22 Paul Henry: Okay. At the scene, did you interview Officer Mazariegos?
23
24 Oscar O'Con: Th-the same.
25
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SRPD000413
Paul Henry: Okay. Uh, did you video record your interviews of the two
officers?
Oscar O'Con: I believe partially of-of Nail's of what he was explaining.
But I believe th-those were conversations that we had aside.
Paul Henry: Okay. So this is an -- I'm not trying to make this a-a gotcha
moment. Okay.
10 Oscar O'Con: [Okay].
11
12 Paul Henry: There's no video of you interviewing Mazariegos.
13
14 Oscar O'Con: [I hear you].
15
16 Paul Henry: Okay. So what I'm asking is, did you interview her and just not
17 record it? Or did you not interview her?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: I believe I interviewed her.
20
22
23 Oscar O'Con: I-I-I d -- I don't recall at this time. I believe it's --
24
25 Julia Fox: It-it appeared in one video as th -- as though the video went off
when you were engaging Mazariegos.
O'Con - 23
SRPD000414
Paul Henry:
Julia Fox: Is that not your recall?
Paul Henry: That's not my specific recall. But I don't know.
Julia Fox: Okay.
10 Paul Henry: I'd have to go back and look at them again.
11
12 Julia Fox: I-I seem to remember that you were going to Mazariegos. And then,
13 the video went off.
14
15 Paul Henry: I know that, when I showed you your videos --
16
17 Oscar O'Con: Mm-hmm.
18
19 Paul Henry: -- earlier tonight -- this afternoon, uh, we didn't watch -- many
20 of them, we did not watch in their entirety. But I will tell you there's no
21 interview of you with Officer Magara --
22
23 Julia Fox: On video.
24
25 Paul Henry: -- Mazariegos on video.
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SRPD000415
Oscar O'Con: Okay. Yeah. I-I-I do not recall specifically if-if and
when.
Paul Henry: So it's possible you didn't interview her at the scene?
Oscar O'Con: I believe I did. But I-I just can't recall. It's been
several months ago. And --
Paul Henry: Okay.
10
11 Oscar O'Con: -- if it -- if it was freshly asked maybe at the time, then
12 I could give a more definitive answer. But it's been eight -- seven, eight m
13 -- or six, seven, eight months now.
14
15 Paul Henry: Okay. If we assume for argument's sake that you interviewed her
16 at the scene, is there a reason you didn't record it?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: I-I-I don't have an-any idea right now. [It's] discussing
19 tactics, [something to that degree]. But that's-that's a guesstimate right
20 now. I don't know what was in my mindset at the time --
21
22 Paul Henry: When you say --
23
24 Oscar O'Con: -- [for sn --]
25
Paul Henry: -- discussing tactics, what do you mean?
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Oscar O'Con: Any specific tactics that were used during the incident.
Paul Henry: Okay.
Oscar O'Con: But that's -- that's-that's a g -- a-a general just idea of
what maybe I have in mind right now versus what I had in mind at the time.
Paul Henry: But when you say tactics, you're not necessarily referring to an
10 exception to video recording your interactions while on duty, right? Do you
11 have a body-worn-camera policy?
12
13 Oscar O'Con: We do.
14
15 Paul Henry: Does it say that you have to record while you're working,
16 contacts and enforcement actions?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Yes, when dealing with the -- with the public.
19
20 Paul Henry: Okay. And is there language in your policy that says there's
21 certain exceptions when you don't have to record?
22
23 Oscar O'Con: I can review the policy right now --
24
O'Con - 26
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Oscar O'Con: -- uh --
Paul Henry: That's all right.
Oscar O'Con: -- refresh my recollection.
Julia Fox: What about a-administrative conversations between officers? I-i-
in your mind or to your knowledge, is there any exception to having to record
on a body cam administrative conversations between officers?
10
11 Oscar O'Con: I-I would have to refresh my recollection --
12
13 Julia Fox: Okay.
14
15 Oscar O'Con: -- with-with the-the specific jargon for a body-worn
16 camera.
17
19
20 Oscar O'Con: But, uh, my understanding is more related towards s-
21 specific --
22
23 Paul Henry: Okay. Is it fair to say then, if you interviewed her at the scene
24 and you didn't record it, it was not an intentional act to not record it? You
25 just didn't turn it on?
O'Con - 27
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Oscar O'Con: That's correct.
Paul Henry: Okay. You also interviewed, uh, the arrestee, correct?
Paul Henry: And you interviewed his two friends?
10
11 Paul Henry: Okay. And you recorded those, right?
12
14
15 Paul Henry: Do you recall who you directed, uh, to take the suspect to the
16 hospital?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Uh, I believe it was Officer Gamble.
19
20 Paul Henry: Okay. Now, you turned your body-worn camera on and off several
21 times while you were at the scene. Why did you do that?
22
23 Oscar O'Con: I don't recall. I --
24
25 Paul Henry: Is there a reason you just didn't turn it on and leave it on till
you were done?
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Oscar O'Con: I-I have no idea at this time.
Paul Henry: Your first video, uh, that -- from the scene is 39 seconds in
length. And it begins with you driving your car and arriving at the scene and
ends with you approaching Officer Nail. Why did you turn your camera off as
you and Officer Nail begin a conversation?
Oscar O'Con: Again, I-I-I have no idea what was in my mindset at the
10 time.
11
12 Paul Henry: Okay. Did you have any conversation with Officer Nail or Officer
13 Mazariegos about this incident that was not recorded on your body-worn
14 camera?
15
16 Oscar O'Con: [sighs] Again, I don't -- I don't recall.
17
18 Paul Henry: What did Officer Nail tell you about the incident?
19
20 Oscar O'Con: Uh, this is what I'm trying to recall from the brief
21 footage that we saw on the body-worn. Uh, this is just based off my
22 recollection at this time right now. Uh, to my understanding is that there
23 was some-some brief struggle that he had with the individual while they were
24 trying to detain him.
25
O'Con - 29
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He was not cooperative. Therefore, he had to take him to the ground,
punched him once in the face. And then, uh, at some point or another, the
subject was grabbing at him. And they were able to detain him.
Paul Henry: Mm-hmm. Did he tell you why he punched him?
Oscar O'Con: Uh, I do not recall at this time.
Paul Henry: Okay.
10
11 Oscar O'Con: If I reviewed the body-worn again --
12
13 Paul Henry: Did Officer Nail tell you that the subject hit him in the back of
14 his head?
15
16 Oscar O'Con: I don't recall if he told me that right now. But I do -- I
17 do recall that he did state that the subject was grabbing at him.
18
19 Paul Henry: Did Officer Nail tell you that the subject tried to put him ina
20 headlock?
21
22 Oscar O'Con: Uh, I believe, at some point during the incident, he does
23 say something to that effect.
24
25 Paul Henry: Does -- did he tell you that? Or he did tell another officer
that?
O'Con —- 30
SRPD000421
Oscar O'Con: I can't recall if it was directly at me or if he was just
talking out loud while I was -- while I was present.
Paul Henry: But you recall hearing him say it?
Oscar O'Con: I-I believe so.
Paul Henry: Okay. Did that cause you, uh, any concern at all when you heard
10 him say that?
11
12 Oscar O'Con: I don't understand. What do you mean by concern?
13
14 Paul Henry: Did you have any follow-up conversation with him about, uh, the
15 subject p -- trying to put him in a headlock?
16
17 Oscar O'Con: I-I don't recall if we had any follow-up conversation, s --
18 planned on reviewing the body-worn and --
19
20 Paul Henry: When did you look at, uh, Officer Nail and Officer Mazariegos
21 body-worn-camera videos?
22
23 Oscar O'Con: Some point after the incident.
24
25 Paul Henry: Okay. Are you able to be any more specific than that?
O'Con - 31
SRPD000422
Oscar O'Con: Uh, I'd ha -- I'd have to give you a -- I reviewed it from
my-my profile from Axon. So it would have some sort of audit timestamp of
when I did review it. But I don't recall specifically if it was hours, later
in that morning, on that shift.
Paul Henry: You think it was that shift though?
Oscar O'Con: I believe so at this time. But I can't -- I can't be -- I
can't be certain.
10
11 Paul Henry: Okay. Now, you approved the police report that the two of them
12 authored. Is that correct?
13
14 Oscar O'Con: That's correct.
15
16 Paul Henry: And did you look at the video before you approved the report?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Again, I-I don't recall at this time. I-I-I'd like to hope
19 that I did. But I can't-can't be definitive at this time.
20
21 Paul Henry: When you looked at Officer Nail or Officer Magara -- Mazariegos
22 videos, were you able to see when the subject struck Nail on the back of his
23 head?
24
25 Oscar O'Con: Sorry. Please ask again.
O'Con - 32
SRPD000423
Paul Henry: So Officer Nail wrote in his police report that the subject,
Lopez, punched him in the back of his head several times. When you looked at
the video, were you able to see Lopez do that?
Oscar O'Con: I don't recall. But I-I do not believe I was able to see it
just based on how the cameras were angled and just the constant moving of
them.
Paul Henry: Okay. Now, Officer Nail also wrote in his police report that
10 Lopez tried to put him in a headlock. Did you see that in the video?
11
12 Oscar O'Con: Again, it was -- it was kind of, uh, similar. I-I saw that
13 there was grabbing. But I-I couldn't necessarily -- the camera doesn't cover
14 the back of -- the back of his head. And I don't believe, from Daisy's, it
15 covers all of it the whole time.
16
17 Paul Henry: Okay. Did you have any conversation with Officer Nail about those
18 two incidents, the punching to the back of his head and L-Lopez putting him
19 in a headlock?
20
21 Oscar O'Con: Uh --
22
23 Paul Henry: Do you recall asking Officer Nail about that?
24
25 Oscar O'Con: To-to what degree? Like-like asking did that happen or like
questioning him?
O'Con - 33
SRPD000424
Paul Henry: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, tell me more about that.
Oscar O'Con: Th -- just based on -- like that was in his police report
so -- conversation about like it being there. But I don't believe it was any
sort of like questioning like whether or not it was seen or not seen on the
body-worn camera or not anything like that. It was -- those are -- those are
his independent observations and beliefs of how the incident took place.
10 Julia Fox: You took him at his word.
11
12 Oscar O'Con: Yeah.
13
14 Paul Henry: Okay. So I-I guess the reason I'm asking the question is, uh,
15 Officer Nail briefs you on this struggle. Right.
16
18
19 Paul Henry: And during his briefing, he doesn't say anything to you about
20 getting put in a headlock. He doesn't say anything to you about getting hit
21 in the back of the head. But then, he writes these things in his report. So
22 my question is, when you read that in the report, that may very well have
23 been the first time you became aware of that. Did you have any follow-up
24 conversation with Nail about maybe why he didn't share that information with
25 you at the scene?
O'Con - 34
SRPD000425
Oscar O'Con: Mm-hmm. Uh, I-I can't be definitive on what our
conversations were had because, again, it's been a long time. And I've had
many conversations between then and now. But, uh, also, like to support that,
I also know that -- a-and being in -- have been in use-of-forces myself, that
use-of-forces are not always captured definitively on camera or definitively
of what is said at face value at what has happened at the scene because
there's a lot of things that you don't recall at the time that you're slowly
piecing together --
11
12 Oscar O'Con: -- after the incident. It's a-a fast -- of all the incident
13 -- use-of-forces are not pretty. They are not --
14
16
17 Oscar O'Con: -- very easily remembered. Of course, that's what the-the
18 best part about the body-worn cameras is it supports -- it supports. And it
19 gives you some understanding and piecing together some of these incidents.
20 But all of these are -- like your camera is -- has only two senses. It has
21 sound and r-recordings of like sight.
22
23 But you have all -- like as a person and being involved in it, you have
24 so many different -- and this is from my experiences in [being] use-of-forces
25 -- is that you have all these different senses of feel and, uh, like all
these heightened-heightened senses outside of just sight and sou -- or sight
O'Con - 35
SRPD000426
and sound that it-it wasn't unreasonable for him to have different
observations then that were either said at the scene because he was r-
remembering and piecing it together.
And those were also his beliefs and observations that he made for
himself that may have not been captured on a body-worn camera because it --
uh, uh, there are two bodies that are not 360 coverage and capturing
everything and capturing all these different emotions and different senses.
10 So to me, it's not of concern or something that we had a-a huge
11 conversation about. It was his independent observations just like that is his
12 police report of what-what his recollection of the incident that took place.
13
14 Paul Henry: Okay. What do you recall about Officer Mazariegos and what she
15 told you about the incident?
16
17 Oscar O'Con: I just don't recall at this time exactly what she told me.
18 But i-if I was -- if I -- based on just kind of my belief now of looking back
19 at the incident, I feel like it was something to a similar degree that-that
20 Officer Nail provided me on scene.
21
23
24 Oscar O'Con: It wasn't anything to cause me great concern that was
25 completely differing opinions or recollections of what took place.
O'Con - 36
SRPD000427
Paul Henry: Did she say anything about Lopez trying to hit her --
Oscar O'Con: I don't --
Paul Henry: -- or-or assault her in any way?
Oscar O'Con: I don't recall. I-I-I don't believe so.
Paul Henry: Okay. Did she describe Lopez's level of resistance?
10
11 Oscar O'Con: I believe she stated something to the effect that sh --
12 that he was pulling-pulling away from them and not-not listening to their
13 commands --
14
16
17 Oscar O'Con: -- and then just the stuff that took place with-with
18 Officer Nail.
19
20 Paul Henry: Did she say anything about Lopez hitting Nail in the head?
21
23
24 Paul Henry: Did she say anything about Lopez trying to put him in a headlock?
25
O'Con - 37
SRPD000428
Paul Henry: Now, you interviewed the suspect that was arrested, Julio
[Jimenez] Lopez. Is that correct?
Oscar O'Con: Yes.
Paul Henry: And where was he at the time that you interviewed him?
Oscar O'Con: The back of a police vehicle.
10
11 Paul Henry: Okay. How would you describe his demeanor when you interviewed
12 him?
13
14 Oscar O'Con: Like physical or just-just in general?
15
16 Paul Henry: Just in general?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Uh, he seemed like he had a -- he had, uh, of course, an
19 injury to his nose. So he was --
20
22
23 Oscar O'Con: -- he was bleeding, or he had blood --
24
O'Con - 38
SRPD000429
Oscar O'Con: -- wasn't -- it didn't seem like it was actively bleeding,
per se. But it was bloody. And some of it was starting to dry on his clothes.
Uh, he was polite with me and respectful, answered my questions as
appropriate.
He was -- animated I wouldn't say is the-the most-most, uh, correct but
something to that degree. He was giving me his side of the story and trying
to be as-as detail oriented as-as he can for what his recollection. He did
seem slightly intoxicated based on the observations that I saw. He showed
10 some signs and symptoms of alcohol intoxication or alcohol consumption.
11
12 Paul Henry: He appeared calm to me when I watched the video. Would you agree
13 with that?
14
15 Oscar O'Con: Generally. It didn't seem like he was resistive by any
16 means or angry or anything like that.
17
18 Paul Henry: And he was willing to answer your questions?
19
21
23
24 Oscar O'Con: I-I would say that's correct.
25
O'Con - 39
SRPD000430
Paul Henry: You just said that, uh, he exhibited some signs of-of being under
the influence of alcohol. What did you --
Oscar O'Con: Mm-hmm.
Paul Henry: -- observe that gave you that opinion?
Oscar O'Con: Uh, again, this is a very long time ago. And it's hard for
me to r-recall specifically. But I believe it was bloodshot, watery eyes and
10 odor of alcohol and slightly surr -- slurred speech. But it could also be
11 that it was from injuries. So it's -- but it-it-it's also an observation that
12 I made at the time, I believe.
13
14 Paul Henry: Now, he had been sitting in the back of the patrol car fora
15 while before you interviewed him. Is that right?
16
17 Oscar O'Con: W-what do you -- what do you determine as a while?
18
19 Paul Henry: More than five minutes.
20
21 Oscar O'Con: Yes. I-I would say that's accurate.
22
23 Paul Henry: Okay. So when you opened the back -- the door to interview him,
24 did you smell alcohol within the vehicle?
25
O'Con - 40
SRPD000431
Oscar O'Con: I-I believe so. But again, I-I-I can't recall what I --
what I was sensing at the time or if -- you'd like me to review maybe my-my
prior documentation of it.
Paul Henry: Tell me what you remember about what he told you.
Oscar O'Con: Uh, from what I recall is that he made statements that he
was communicating with the-the female officer. She was asking for his ID but
kept telling him to-to-to stay seated. Uh, however, he only stated that she
10 said it once. And he was -- he had to stand up to get his ID. And that was
11 the big issue.
12
13 And it -- and to my understanding, it was that the male got involved
14 and then, at some point, grabbed him, punched him and threw him onto the
15 ground. And he said that he was -- he was following along with their
16 commands. And he was just trying to get his ID out, that he wasn't resisting
17 at all --
18
20
21 Oscar O'Con: -- and that many, many different parts of his body
22 including his -- where he got -- where he got struck, uh, were hurting.
23
24 Paul Henry: Mm-hmm. Okay. Did you interview him in Spanish?
25
Oscar O'Con: Uh, primarily.
O'Con - 41
SRPD000432
Paul Henry: Did he --
Oscar O'Con: Like we did -- we did kind of go back and forth a little
bit.
Paul Henry: Okay. Did he tell you that he understands English?
Oscar O'Con: Yes.
10
11 Paul Henry: Okay. Did he have any difficulty understanding your questions?
12
13 Oscar O'Con: Uh, I don't believe so. But I-I don't -- I don't recall
14 completely. I-I think we went over a lot of the same questions a couple
15 different times.
16
17 Paul Henry: Did he tell you if he had any difficulty understanding what the
18 officers were telling him to do?
19
20 Oscar O'Con: I believe he stated that he understood them.
21
22 Paul Henry: Okay. Did, uh -- was he aware that the officers had told him to
23 sit down?
24
25 Oscar O'Con: Based on what he told me, it was.
O'Con - 42
SRPD000433
Paul Henry: And he told you that he stood up to get his ID. Is that what you
just said?
Paul Henry: When you interviewed him, did you think his speech was slurred?
Oscar O'Con: Uh, from what I recall -- again, I'd have to look at my
prior documentation to-to back it up. But I-I believe so. But I [again] --
10
11 Paul Henry: Well, we just watched your interview with him on video. Did you -
12 - does that refresh your memory at all?
13
14 Oscar O'Con: Uh, slightly.
15
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Uh, it's more of observations that were at the time. But --
19 yeah. It sounds slightly swe -- slurred right now.
20
21 Paul Henry: Did you ever ask him how much alcohol he had consumed?
22
24
25 Paul Henry: When you looked at the video, do you recall if you asked him how
much alcohol he had consumed?
O'Con - 43
SRPD000434
Oscar O'Con: I-I don't. If you would like to review it, I can.
Paul Henry: Okay. Did you ask him anything about how long he'd been in the
area before contacted by the officers?
Paul Henry: Okay. Based on your conversation with him, did you believe that
10 he was intoxicated to the point of unable to being -- to be able to care for
11 himself?
12
13 Oscar O'Con: Based on the s -- I-I believe so based on the signs and
14 symptoms and the fact that he was uncooperative with-with my officers. I
15 believe that it could have been -- was unable to care for himself.
16
17 Paul Henry: And so what do you base your opinion on that you think he was
18 intoxicated to the point of him being unable to care for himself?
19
20 Oscar O'Con: He was -- he was exhibiting clear signs of alcohol
21 consumption and then fa-failing to comply with lawful orders and failing to -
22 - like simple and lawful orders to remain seated.
23
24 So some of those -- and then, on top of that is-is based on the-the
25 information that I was provided at the time which is from my officers that
were saying that he, uh -- he didn't comply with those commands, uh, and
O'Con - 44
SRPD000435
then, uh, had grabbed at them. So therefore, if he's -- the alcohol
consumption plus that-that behavior of-of violence and of not listening led
me to believe that he was not able to care for himself in public.
Paul Henry: Okay. Now, you interviewed each of the two friends that were with
Lopez. Correct?
10 Paul Henry: Okay. Do you recall if you asked either of them how much alcohol
11 Lopez had consumed?
12
14
15 Paul Henry: Okay. What did Po tell you when you
16 interviewed him?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Which one was that one?
19
20 Paul Henry: He was the first guy that you interviewed.
21
22 Oscar O'Con: [sighs] I would have to -- I'd have to review it again to
23 give you specifics about it. I-I-I can give you the general --
24
25 Paul Henry: Yeah. Let me --
O'Con - 45
SRPD000436
Oscar O'Con: -- uh, the general --
Paul Henry: -- ask the question this way. Uh, it's fine with me if you just
lump them together. What do you recall about what these two guys told you?
Oscar O'Con: So they-they gave a lot of statements saying that the
subject was -- the-the-the subject under arrest, uh, the --
Paul Henry: Their friend, Lopez.
10
11 Oscar O'Con: -- L -- the-the one that was under arrest, the force was
12 used against, that he was generally calm. He was listening to the officers,
13 that he was just trying to grab his ID and then that he got assaulted
14 basically by the officers.
15
16 That's the-the general idea. I could give you more specifics if that's
17 what you would li -- if you'd like to me go into that. I'd have to review the
18 body-worn. But the difference between the two statements that was added that
19 wasn't given in the-the first individual that-that talked to me was the
20 second one said that, at some point or another -- and of course, they were
21 both -- I was able to understand them.
22
23 But they're not trained in giving detailed statements ina
24 chronological order. So I'm-I'm trying to piece together and interpret their
25 statements. But I think the-the-the part that stood out to me in the second
individual is that he stated that, at some point or another, uh, the subject
O'Con - 46
SRPD000437
that y -- force was used against was pulling away or moving his arms which,
to me is an interpretation of a subject being uncooperative, you know.
Uh, and then, on top of that, he said, at some point or another, he was
defending himself. So to me, th -- he was taking some sort of defensive
action or actions against the officer. So those were statements that I
interpreted as lending to the credibility of what my officers told me at-at
the time or based on the observations that I've seen.
10 Paul Henry: Okay. Were these two, uh, released from the scene with a
11 citation?
12
13 Oscar O'Con: They were.
14
15 Paul Henry: And you directed Officer Gamble to take the subject, Lopez, to
16 the hospital for medical clearance. Right?
17
19
20 Paul Henry: Did you give her any other direction other than drive him to the
21 hospital, get a clearance, then book him?
22
23 Oscar O'Con: Uh, I believe I asked her to get an idea of what those
24 injuries included from the doctor or medical staff and photograph -- uh,
25 additional photographs, I believe, uh --
O'Con - 47
SRPD000438
Paul Henry: Okay.
Oscar O'Con: -- at-at the hospital.
Paul Henry: Did you direct her to get a signed medical waiver so that the
police department could get access to the subject's medical records related
to his treatment at the hospital for this incident?
10
11 Paul Henry: If there's no medical record in the file, would that mean you
12 didn't ask for it?
13
14 Oscar O'Con: Potentially or it wasn't done. So I-I don't recall at this
15 time if I -- if I asked and it wasn't done or if it just wasn't requested by
16 me.
17
18 Paul Henry: Have you previously directed any other officers to obtain a
19 medical release in other investigations?
20
21 Oscar O'Con: S-sorry. Please repeat.
22
23 Paul Henry: So in other investigations on other incidents, have you
24 previously directed someone, "Hey, when you take him to the hospital, have
25 him sign a medical release?"
O'Con - 48
SRPD000439
Oscar O'Con: Uh, y-yeah, for like victim statements and stuff, I've
asked them to do for sure --
Paul Henry: Okay.
Oscar O'Con: -- to get -- to get medical releases and stuff like that.
Paul Henry: It's something we commonly do when we want the suspect's medical
records. If we take our suspect to the hospital, do we -- don't we commonly
10 ask to get a medical release?
11
12 Oscar O'Con: No, not commonly. I would say, uh -- I would say sometimes.
13
14 Paul Henry: Well, in what cases would you do it? L-let me ask the question
15 this way. In what cases would you not do it?
16
17 Oscar O'Con: I-I guess it's kind of on those situa -- uh, like to me,
18 it's -- I've seen it from -- m-more often than not, it happens on like -- I
19 would say on like victims and stuff like that, so victims of-of 245s, of
20 211s, like maj-major injuries on those occasions.
21
22 But to my experiences aS a supervisor and observing other ones, I-I
23 haven't seen somebody obtain a medical release for or get a signed medical
24 release for a suspect that was taken into custody on a use-of-force. So for
25 me, it hasn't been s -- like I haven't seen another supervisor do that or
been trained to that.
O'Con - 49
SRPD000440
So it's not something that I can definitively say it's a common
practice. But I c -- I could see, as you are saying it right now, that it
could be potentially something that could be fruitful.
Paul Henry: Did you direct Officer Gamble to use a PAAS device to determine
the suspect's blood-alcohol content?
10
11 Paul Henry: Did you ask her to find out from the hospital what the suspect's
12 blood-alcohol content was?
13
15
16 Paul Henry: Did you direct her to read the subject Miranda and a -- and
17 attempt to interview him?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: I-I don't believe so.
20
21 Paul Henry: Okay. Did you give any direction while at the scene for officers
22 to conduct an area canvas to determine if there were any witnesses to this
23 incident?
24
25 Oscar O'Con: Hmm. I don't recall. But I believe I looked around to see
if there was. But I-I-I can't -- I can't definitively say right now.
O'Con - 50
SRPD000441
Paul Henry: So when you say you don't recall, is it possible you provided
these directions, and you just don't remember doing it?
Oscar O'Con: That's correct. It could also be potentially that I-I had
l-looked around, and I didn't see any p -- any witnesses anywhere in the
general area. So --
Paul Henry: To your knowledge, did anyone besides you interview Lopez's two
10 friends?
11
12 Oscar O'Con: To m -- uh, did you say to my knowledge?
13
15
16 Oscar O'Con: To my knowledge, I don't -- I don't believe so. But --
17
18 Paul Henry: Okay. Is one of your responsibilities as a supervisor to help
19 limit liability for the police department and for the city?
20
21 Oscar O'Con: That's correct.
22
23 Paul Henry: Okay. What steps did you take to help limit the liability for the
24 department in this case?
25
O'Con - 51
SRPD000442
Oscar O'Con: I did the-the-the initial use-of-force investigation, uh,
eva -- or not evaluated but, uh, reviewed and approved the reports that were-
were meant to be sent to the district attorney's office or were sent to the
district attorney's office, uh, responded to the scene and delegated tasks as
necessary, uh, limited the c -- the after contact with the officers who used
force against the person who had force used against, uh, got the appropriate
medical-medical evaluations and medical necessities, uh, and delegated those
tasks out, reviewed some of the body-worn camera footage to the incident that
took place, uh, delegated out tasks to appropriately document through
10 photographs of where the incident took place and-and the individuals who were
11 involved, uh -- trying to think if there's anything else. I think that's it.
12
13 Paul Henry: Okay. Did you have any follow-up conversation with either Nail or
14 Mazariegos after your initial interview them -- of them at the scene?
15
16 Oscar O'Con: I don't recall at this time.
17
18 Paul Henry: Did you provide any direction to either officer about authoring
19 their police report?
20
21 Oscar O'Con: I believe there was likely some-some corrections that we
22 worked on together. But I-I don't recall specifically what they were.
23
24 Paul Henry: Did you give them any direction prior to them writing their
25 report?
O'Con - 52
SRPD000443
Oscar O'Con: I told them to review their body-worn cameras and --
Paul Henry: Okay.
Oscar O'Con: -- and to -- yeah. I told them to review their body-worn
cameras and-and, yeah, just, uh, not speak necessarily about the incident but
make sure that they write an accurate police report given the circumstances
that took place and their recollections of it --
11
12 Oscar O'Con: -- and being as descriptive as possible given-given-given
13 the circumstances.
14
15 Paul Henry: Okay. Did you read and approve their reports?
16
17 Oscar O'Con: I did.
18
19 Paul Henry: Okay. Did you do it that day?
20
22
23 Paul Henry: Did you review their body-worn-camera videos before you approved
24 their reports?
25
Oscar O'Con: Sorry. Can we go back to that last question?
O'Con - 53
SRPD000444
Paul Henry: Yes.
Oscar O'Con: You said that day. I don't believe it was that day because
it took place on -- but that shift.
Paul Henry: Okay.
Oscar O'Con: Yeah. Because it -- we're -- we fall on different days
10 based on our --
11
12 Paul Henry: Yeah. Th-that's fine.
13
14 Oscar O'Con: -- [crosstalk] so just to be [unintelligible]. [Sorry].
15
16 Paul Henry: It was assumption that it would have been that shift.
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Yeah. It's --
19
20 Paul Henry: But-but I-I'm fine that you -- [crosstalk] you want it to be
21 accurate.
22
23 Oscar O'Con: -- m-may-may-maybe s-sometimes, uh, those things get split
24 up. And then, all of a sudden, you know --
25
O'Con - 54
SRPD000445
Paul Henry: No. No. I-I would not have -- I wouldn't dream about hammering
you for something like that. Uh, did you review the officers' body-worn-
camera videos before you read the report?
Oscar O'Con: I'd like to say I did. But I-I can't recall at this time.
I'd have to -- I'd have to -- uh, for me to give you a definitive answer, I'd
have to review-review the-the actual, uh -- [taps] uh, the audit trail on it.
But now-now thinking back, I believe at some point or another -- because they
had not yet downloaded their footage.
10
11 I believe, uh, Officer Nail had pulled it up on his phone because you
12 have the ability to pair it. And I do believe, uh, uh, we reviewed parts of
13 the use of force --
14
16
17 Oscar O'Con: -- of the actual altercation that took place like from -- I
18 think like the beginning contact to like him being detained in cuffs. I
19 believe I watched it from his phone now thinking back to it.
20
21 Paul Henry: And that would have been that shift?
22
24
O'Con - 55
SRPD000446
Oscar O'Con: So I-I believe to my recollection. But definitively, uh,
like it's been --
Paul Henry: [Right].
Oscar O'Con: -- several months since then. But like common practice is
that we review the body -- the body-worn-camera footage on shift. Like at
least before the end of shift, we review the -- on -- during use of force.
And so whether it's -- we get it downloaded and-and review it like as a
10 supervisor standpoint from the actual evidence.com or ask the officer to pull
11 it up on-on their phone. And so we can at least get, uh, uh, uh, some
12 observations and --
13
15
16 Oscar O'Con: -- some review of it going.
17
18 Paul Henry: So if I'm understanding you correctly, in a use-of-force
19 investigation, it's common that you would want to look at the video before
20 you read the report?
21
23
24 Paul Henry: Is that -- w-was that what -- [crosstalk]
25
O'Con - 56
SRPD000447
Oscar O'Con: A -- yes. Absolutely. So I believe -- I believe -- I just
can't give you definitive --
Paul Henry: [Mm-hmm. ]
Oscar O'Con: -- answers because it's -- like at the time, like if it was
the week after you asked me these questions, yes, I could give you definitive
answers on it. It's just -- it's been a long time between then and now and
many other incidents that have taken place for-for me, per se.
10
11 But my common practice is, yes, before -- as -- when I'm acting as a
12 supervisor and in previous use-of-force reports and previous use-of-force
13 reviews, I reviewed the camera footage prior to going -- prior to reviewing
14 the reports or prior to going off duty.
15
16 Paul Henry: Have there been other investigations where you approved a use-of-
17 force report without looking at the video first?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: I don't believe so. But I-I-I can't recall at this time.
20 I'd like to -- I would like to say that I-I -- it-it-it isn't a common
21 practice to do that. It would be to review it.
22
23 Paul Henry: Okay. I want to just restate that same questions a little bit
24 differently, uh, because I want to make sure I understand your answer. Uh,
25 are you saying that, at this point, you don -- you do not remember a prior
O'Con - 57
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case where you would have approved a use-of-force report without looking at
the video? Is-is that what I'm understanding you to say?
Oscar O'Con: So I just want -- I want to make sure we're on the same
page because -- that -- I do not -- in general practice in prior reports that
-- like use-of-forces as me as a Supervisor, I would not have approved a
report prior to reviewing the footage.
Paul Henry: Mm-hmm.
10
11 Oscar O'Con: I-I would -- I would like to say that -- yes. I would like
12 that I generally or have, in-in prior instances of me being a supervisor and
13 approving reports, that I would review the body-worn camera of the actual use
14 of force or whatever related material to that prior to approving the report
15 to make sure that they are accurate depictions of each other.
16
18
19 Oscar O'Con: Yes. I would like to say yes. I -- generally, I would like
20 to believe that I have. Definitively, again, there's many things that have
21 happened between then and now that -- could it be a possibility? Yes. I just
22 can't give you a definitive answer. But I --
23
24 Paul Henry: As a supervisor with the San Rafael Police Department, do you see
25 any problem or issue with approving a-a use-of-force report without looking
at the video?
O'Con - 58
SRPD000449
Oscar O'Con: Yes.
Paul Henry: What kind of problems might that be?
Oscar O'Con: There could be any -- uh, discrepancies or maybe missed
documentation or maybe observations are different than what is actually --
like observations that were believed to have taken place versus observant --
or things that are --
10
12
13 Oscar O'Con: -- memorialized in a body-worn camera.
14
15 Paul Henry: Is it your responsibility as a supervisor then to address those
16 discrepancies?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: It is.
19
20 Paul Henry: Okay. Do you know how many times you've looked at either Officer
21 Nail's or Officer Mazariegos's videos?
22
23 Oscar O'Con: Uh, I-I don't.
24
25 Paul Henry: Is it more than once?
O'Con - 59
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Oscar O'Con: I believe so.
Paul Henry: Not counting today, is it more than once?
Oscar O'Con: I believe so.
Paul Henry: Okay. Was anyone else present with you when you looked at their
videos?
10 Oscar O'Con: Uh, it's probable that Officer Nail was there when he was
11 showing it to me on his phone.
12
13 Paul Henry: Did you see anything in the videos that caused you any concern?
14
15 Oscar O'Con: Nothing really at the time.
16
17 Paul Henry: Did you think the way that Officer Nail spoked -- spoke or talked
18 to Mr. Lopez was appropriate?
19
20 Oscar O'Con: A-at which point?
21
22 Paul Henry: Sit the fuck down.
23
24 Oscar O'Con: So I know our police talks about using swear words and
25 stuff in-in terms of, uh, deal -- interacting with the public. But I-I also
understood it as like th -- given the circumstances, like -- potentially, the
O'Con - 60
SRPD000451
swear like could have been removed. But telling him to sit down with a stern
manner and-and-and directing him to do so was not inappropriate either given
the-the prior beat knowledge and the prior like, to me, observations that --
of that area and that he was not complying with their initial commands. He
was -- it seemed to me like the-the subject the force was used against was
not -- was failing to listen to both of them.
Paul Henry: Have you ever used profanity when you talk to somebody on the
street?
10
12
13 Paul Henry: I have too. When I've done it, it's because I felt like, based on
14 the circumstances, that was the type of language that was going to get
15 through to the person I was talking with.
16
18
19 Paul Henry: Right. Would you say that's accurate?
20
21 Oscar O'Con: That's accurate.
22
23 Paul Henry: Okay. Now, Nail was on scene for only a few seconds and had no
24 interaction with this guy to this point. And the very first words out of his
25 mouth are, "Hey, sit the fuck down." So my question is, did you think it was
appropriate that he talked that way to Mr. Lopez?
O'Con - 61
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Oscar O'Con: I'd say taking out the profanity -- the profanity could be
taken out. But the s -- the-the general message of -- that he needed to --
needed to comply -- I believe that message was-was appropriate, maybe not the
exact like saying the F word --
Paul Henry: Mm-hmm.
Oscar O'Con: -- maybe not the most appropriate. But I think the actual
10 message that was relayed to him that like, hey, like we need you to comply.
11
13
14 Oscar O'Con: There's like th -- many, many different concerns that are
15 on scene that --
16
18
19 Oscar O'Con: -- n-needs to be g -- get addressed quickly.
20
21 Paul Henry: Did you think Officer Nail was rude or discourteous toward Lopez?
22
23 Oscar O'Con: I believe he was direct in terms of -- o-outside of -- w-
24 we're talking about the same -- the same -- the swear word?
25
Paul Henry: Mm-hmm.
O'Con - 62
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Oscar O'Con: Outside of that, I believe the message was-was very clear.
He was -- he was stating a direct -- a direct statement and what he needed
him to do to comply to gain control of that -- what was going on.
Paul Henry: So you did not think it was rude or discourteous?
Oscar O'Con: The-the swear word?
11
12 Oscar O'Con: I believe it was -- it was -- could have been avoided and
13 not used. But I believe that the statement, like we're talking about, was
14 appropriate, the actual statement to sit down.
15
16 Paul Henry: Okay. So I-I'm-I'm trying to get a yes or no answer from you. Was
17 it rude or discourteous toward Lopez when Nail told him to sit the fuck down?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: Can I take a second?
20
21 Paul Henry: Sure. You want a break?
22
23 Oscar O'Con: Yes, please.
24
25 Paul Henry: Current time is 3:09. And we're going to take a break.
O'Con - 63
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Oscar O'Con: Thank you.
Paul Henry: The current time is 3:13. And we're back on record. So when we
took our break, I was asking you if you believe Officer Nail was rude and/or
discourteous toward Lopez when he said sit the fuck down.
Oscar O'Con: Uh, uh, and to r -- you were asking me for a simple yes or
no answer. And I think that statement is -- or that question is loaded to
have more -- like my belief based on that and, uh, rude and discourteous,
10 like, uh, uh --
11
12 Paul Henry: So why don't you give me either yes or no and then whatever
13 explanation you want to provide?
14
15 Oscar O'Con: Okay. Uh, no, because I believe -- I-I don't believe it was
16 necessary to use, uh, a swear word during that situation. But that's the
17 decision he made at the time.
18
19 And I don't believe that situation, that-that one swear word guided the
20 whole situation and deteriorated just on -- based alone just saying the F
21 word to somebody. I believe he was giving him a direct order. And that-that
22 enunciated the-the -- like that he needed to comply with that order at that
23 time.
24
25 Paul Henry: How did Lopez react when Nail spoke to him that way?
O'Con - 64
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Oscar O'Con: H-he -- it seemed like he became -- he didn't like that
word being used. But he still wasn't complying with what-what the orders
were-were being told to him.
Paul Henry: And you don't believe -- well, let me ask you this -- ask it this
way. Do you believe Nail's use of that word and the -- his tone of voice and
the way he spoke to Lopez, uh -- was it effective? Did Lopez then comply
after he was told to sit the fuck down?
10 Oscar O'Con: Did-did he com -- did he comply?
11
12 Paul Henry: Right.
13
14 Oscar O'Con: He did not comply.
15
16 Paul Henry: Okay. So did Nail's use of that term and his tone of voice -- did
17 that exacerbate the situation?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: Wh-what do you mean by exacerbate? Like deteriorate it?
20
21 Julia Fox: Make it worse.
22
23 Paul Henry: Make it worse.
24
25 Oscar O'Con: I-I --
O'Con - 65
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Julia Fox: Or [even] unchanged?
Oscar O'Con: -- I-I don't -- I don't believe it-it caused any change
because, to begin with, uh, Officer Mazariegos was giving him clear
instructions. And he was not complying with those. And then, that next --
that next statement -- he was still not complying.
Paul Henry: Do you think it was necessary for Lopez to be put in a restrained
detention?
10
12
13 Paul Henry: Are there alternatives the officers could have considered?
14
15 Oscar O'Con: There's-there's always alternatives. But that's the
16 decision they made in that -- in that given moment and based on their
17 training and experience. And I don't disagree with their decision to place
18 somebody under restrained detention to gain further control of that
19 individual who was, uh, un -- like not listening to their lawful commands.
20
21 Paul Henry: Your use-of-force policy requires officers to attempt to
22 deescalate a situation to avoid having to use force. Did you see anything
23 from Officer Nail which would lead you to believe he tried to deescalate the
24 situation?
25
O'Con - 66
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Oscar O'Con: I believe so. I believe his use of just that jargon alone -
- he used a different tactic outside of what Officer Mazariegos was using,
which she was using first a different language. He used different language,
which the subject stated that he understood.
Uh, he used a tactic of being, uh, m-more direct and more stern. Yes.
It maybe -- it maybe is not like-like the -- like negotiating. But he was
giving him basically his-his lawful order.
10 And when he did not comply with that lawful order after being told
11 numerous times, they switched to a different tactic which was to-to r -- ca -
12 - uh, t -- not cause -- to place him in a restrained detention. And so those
13 were all, to me, deescalatory like tactics used to gain further control.
14
15 Paul Henry: Is it your opinion and your statement that, when Officer Nail
16 said sit the fuck down, that was an attempt to deescalate the situation?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: I believe it was a version of his-his belief at the time to
19 deescalate the situation.
20
21 Paul Henry: Okay. Did Officer Mazariegos, uh, say or do anything that you
22 thought was an attempt to deescalate the situation?
23
24 Oscar O'Con: I believe she also gave numerous commands during the
25 incident for him to comply. And during those numerous commands, he did not
comply.
O'Con - 67
SRPD000458
Paul Henry: Okay. Did either officer attempt to explain to Lopez why they
wanted him to sit down?
Oscar O'Con: I-I don't recall right now. [But I could -- I --]
Paul Henry: When we looked at the videos earlier today, did you h -- see or
hear any officers explain to Lopez, "Hey, listen, the reason I need you to
sit down is --"
10
11 Oscar O'Con: I -- my belief -- and I-I -- uh, we'd have to look at it
12 again if you want me to get definitive. But my belief based on what we saw
13 and my recollection of what we saw already is that the big hang-up that he
14 was saying is, "I need to get my ID out."
15
17
18 Oscar O'Con: And Officer Mazariegos is -- "You have the ID in your
19 hand." And he's continuing to argue over the simple fact that he has to stand
20 up to get his ID. I understand that there's times like -- and my personal
21 experience is that pants get tight. And it's hard to get stuff out of
22 pockets.
23
24 But he already had it in his hands. And that was explained. And he was
25 still getting commands to sit down. And he's not -- h-he's not abiding by it.
And his explanation is not [leading] to that.
O'Con - 68
SRPD000459
Paul Henry: Okay.
Oscar O'Con: So there was maybe some-some brief explanation. But there
wasn't like the, "Hey, sir. Like the reason I -- like I need you to do this
because this." It wasn't like an -- a five -- a five-minute drawn-out like
extended conversation over this. And based on the observations and the
different safety hazards that I saw on scene, it also wasn't unreasonable
given the circumstances.
10
11 Paul Henry: Have you ever had a subject or suspect, uh, not comply with a
12 direction you gave?
13
15
16 Paul Henry: Have you ever then explained the reason why you're asking them to
17 do what it is you want them to do?
18
20
21 Paul Henry: Okay. Now, your use-of-force policy also requires the officers to
22 consider alternate tactics to avoid or limit the amount of force used. Did
23 you see anything -- any effort on the part of either officer to use alternate
24 tactics?
25
O'Con - 69
SRPD000460
Oscar O'Con: I-I just don't quite understand alternate tactics. They
used the tactics that they believed that they had to use at that necessary
time. So like to me, there's always alternative tactics. Like -- but I didn't
see them switch to maybe alternative choices. But they were also already
hands-on with-with the subject. So therefore, they used what they had readily
available to them at the time.
Paul Henry: Was -- were there any other statements to Lopez other than, "Sit
down -- I told you to sit down. Sit down"? Were there any other comments or
10 statements to him?
11
12 Oscar O'Con: At-at what point?
13
14 Paul Henry: Before they went hands on.
15
16 Oscar O'Con: I don't recall completely. But I don't believe so.
17
19
20 Oscar O'Con: But I can't recall definitively.
21
22 Paul Henry: Did you see anything in either of the two videos that you thought
23 was inconsistent with the reports authored by Nail and Mazariegos?
24
25
O'Con - 70
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Oscar O'Con: I believe there were statements -- there was observations
that they-they recalled but, uh, that were not directly captured in the body-
worn footage.
Uh, however, that, to me, wasn't of a huge concern given that they're
in close proximity. There is not -- like it's of concern. But it's not
something that's their independent observations of how they interpreted the
incident to take place and stuff that may not necessarily be captured on the-
the body-worn camera itself or on the two body-worn cameras.
10
11 Paul Henry: What kind of things might be of concern but you thought it -- you
12 just can't see it on the video?
13
14 Oscar O'Con: Like the-the -- like the comments that you asked me about
15 like, uh, Officer Nail saying that he got punched or put in a headlock. Like
16 of course, that's not necessarily captured. But it's also not an unreasonable
17 statement given the circumstances.
18
19 Paul Henry: Okay. Did you have any conversation with Officer Mazariegos about
20 the drunk-in-public charge?
21
22 Oscar O'Con: Uh, I believe we spoke about it. But I don't recall
23 specifically what that conversation was -- how it went.
24
25 Paul Henry: Do you remember why you had the conversation?
O'Con - 71
SRPD000462
Oscar O'Con: I think we were discussing what-what-what charges -- what
he was -- he was necessarily g-going to be booked for.
Paul Henry: Mm-hmm. But you don't recall what it is -- what your conversation
was?
Paul Henry: Okay. Do supervisors author a use-of-force report?
10
11 Oscar O'Con: Like the-the-the synopsis one?
12
14
15 Oscar O'Con: Uh, yes, if they are not -- if they're not involved.
16
17 Paul Henry: Did you author one of these reports?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: I did.
20
21 Paul Henry: And when did you do that?
22
23 Oscar O'Con: Uh, several days after the incident.
24
25 Paul Henry: Was it several days? Or was it a month?
O'Con - 72
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Oscar O'Con: Uh, it was numerous days after. I-I-I don't know the
specifics of exact -- but it-it's all --
Paul Henry: Okay.
Oscar O'Con: -- documented on the actual -- when it was completed at
least.
Paul Henry: Okay. Were you directed by someone to complete the use-of-force
10 report?
11
12 Oscar O'Con: Well, I was doubled down on that. But I was already in the
13 process of completing it myself. And then, I was told after the fact after I
14 was already completing it.
15
16 Paul Henry: And who told you that?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: Uh, Lieutenant Holton.
19
20 Paul Henry: Is there any reason you hadn't completed the report prior to that
21 point?
22
24
25 Paul Henry: And what's that?
O'Con - 73
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Oscar O'Con: There was -- there was numerous other -- I was -- so given
my role, yes, th -- it's kind of like a little bit of triaging different-
different reports, different documentations, different responsibilities that
I have. So, uh, I don't recall exactly what I was doing during those time
period. But I-I know, from prior experiences of working as a supervisor [at
the end of the month], we have this thing called stop data in CIBRS and
NIBRS.
And at the end of the month especially on that end of the workweek is -
10 - on graveyards, our-our weekday shift usually ends that Wednesday. So like
11 we take over. And it's their Friday. So they're usually turning in numerous
12 reports that they're trying to finish from that-that whole workweek.
13
14 So I was approving numerous reports from the day-shift side, from the
15 night-shift side, reviewing the-the -- this-this in-custody report, uh,
16 reviewing some of the footage as well. And then, on top of that, in the
17 coming weeks, I'm-I'm almost positive that I had a trainee during that time
18 period.
19
20 And that's very time, uh -- not time sensitive. But it's very like --
21 it-it requires a lot of my attention, a lot of my focus to do that. So, uh --
22
23 Julia Fox: Time consuming?
24
25 Oscar O'Con: Yeah. Time consuming. Apologize. I couldn't think of the w
-- the correct word to say. Uh, but yeah. It was very time consuming. So I
O'Con - 74
SRPD000465
think -- uh, I was -- I was triaging with everything that I had going on and
th -- a lot of the time that I had while there. Uh, and yeah. Like, uh,
there-there is time to stay after and h -- and complete stuff.
But there's all -- uh, there's many days that I work and many other
things that I do that there-there's some value in going home and-and seeing
family as well. So --
Paul Henry: Okay. Is it -- what you're saying is that you were just too busy
10 to get to it?
11
12 Oscar O'Con: I-I think it just fell -- it fell to a different-different
13 priorities in-in the pile of different work that I had -- I had to get
14 completed. And it just hadn't yet been fully completed.
15
16 Paul Henry: And you don't recall how much time elapsed between the day of
17 this incident and the day that you authored that report?
18
19 Oscar O'Con: Uh, it -- I don't -- I don't know the exact. But it ha --
20 uh, I think it was somewhere like a couple weeks --
21
23
24 Oscar O'Con: -- at-at least, I think. But I can't tell you like a -- it
25 was like 17 or 18 or 20 days. I-I can't tell you the exact -- but I know it
wasn't that shift.
O'Con - 75
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Paul Henry: You wrote in your use-of-force report that Officer Mazariegos
observed that Lopez was unsteady on his feet as he walked from his vehicle to
the curb when she directed him to sit down. Was that based on your own
observation of the video or what she told you?
Oscar O'Con: Uh, I don't recall.
Paul Henry: Do you-you think he was unsteady on his feet when he walked from
10 his vehicle to the curb?
11
12 Oscar O'Con: I-I don't -- I don't particularly recall him doing that at
13 this time like -- or, uh, recall any observations about this at this time.
14
15 Julia Fox: Wasn't he already in the vehicle when you got there?
16
17 Oscar O'Con: H --
18
19 Paul Henry: He was. But we just looked at the video --
20
22
23 Paul Henry: -- when we watched --
24
25 Julia Fox: Or I -- you're referring to the video.
O'Con - 76
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Paul Henry: -- M-Mazariegos --
Julia Fox: Got you.
Paul Henry: -- direct him away from his vehicle to the curb. And your
statement is that you don't remember --
Oscar O'Con: I don't remember --
10 Paul Henry: -- if h -- now, you wrote in, uh, your use-of-force report that
11 Lopez was Si -- Swinging his right arm wildly. Was this based on your own
12 observation when you looked at the video or on what Officer Mazariegos and
13 Officer Nail told you?
14
15 Oscar O'Con: I don't recall. It could have been accumulation of all
16 three because it is a synopsis of the actual incident based on all different
17 viewpoints.
18
19 Paul Henry: Were you able to see him swinging his arms, uh, in the videos?
20
21 Oscar O'Con: I don't recall. If we want to review it right now, we could
22 probably do that if you'd like to.
23
24 Paul Henry: One of your responsibilities as a supervisor on an incident when
25 a suspect or as -- has been injured by a police officer is to consider
O'Con - 77
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whether or not the subject could make a civil claim against the city. Did you
consider that in this case?
Oscar O'Con: I-I think I consider it in every single incidence that u --
force is used because there's always potential civil liability in any use of
force or any kind of police interaction. We could be sued civilly for
anything. So --
Paul Henry: Okay.
10
11 Oscar O'Con: -- I think it's just a consideration in general.
12
13 Paul Henry: So what steps did you take then with that possible concern in
14 this case?
15
16 Oscar O'Con: Trying to conduct a m -- a-a thorough investigation of what
17 occurred --
18
20
21 Oscar O'Con: -- to what -- and taking the appropriate steps that are
22 necessary to doing use-of-force investigation.
23
24 Paul Henry: Other than the email you put out regarding the events that
25 occurred during the day, did you notify anyone in th -- your chain of command
regarding this incident?
O'Con - 78
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Oscar O'Con: Uh, I don't recall.
Paul Henry: Unless I'm -- I could be wrong. We'd have to listen to the tape.
But I think I understood you to say previously that you did the email. And --
but you didn't talk to anybody personally or on the phone.
Oscar O'Con: Yeah. I don't believe -- like I made a -- I-I-I dialed up
and was like -- to a lieutenant or --
10
12
13 Oscar O'Con: -- went into lieutenant's office about it.
14
15 Paul Henry: Is there anything you would do differently today if this same
16 incident occurred?
17
18 Oscar O'Con: I'm sure there's definitely things that you'd learn upon
19 any-any sort of situation to make things more fluid and more either organized
20 or maybe doing different-different tactics to further investigate it, like
21 you said maybe, uh, uh, uh, like getting the documentation, like you said,
22 like the medical evaluation and stuff.
23
24 There's always -- there's always things -- takeaways to-to learn from
25 it. Uh, but at-at the time, I believed I-I took the most appropriate actions
O'Con - 79
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that I could given-given my-my training and my experience with use-of-force
reports and investigating them as a supervisory.
Paul Henry: Okay. Julia, do you have any questions?
Julia Fox: What's your familiarity with Brandon Nail professionally?
Oscar O'Con: Professionally, I've worked with him for a few rotations.
And generally, I've-I've had no issues with him. His work product is
10 appropriate. Documentation is appropriate. Uh, there hasn't been anything
11 that has caused me concern with him. And he's been a trustworthy partner and,
12 I would say from a supervisory standpoint, subordinate as well.
13
14 Julia Fox: Are you saying that you're very comfortable taking his
15 representations at face value?
16
18
19 Julia Fox: How long -- uh, you answered that actually, how long you've been
20 a corporal by the time this happened. How many use-of-force cases had you
21 investigated or did you oversee in your time as a corporal?
22
23 Oscar O'Con: Uh, I would say l --
24
25 Julia Fox: Up to this point -- I'm sorry -- up to this event.
O'Con - 80
SRPD000471
Oscar O'Con: Yeah. I'd say, uh, uh, it was definitely more than five or
six. Uh, I-I would have to look at exactly my-my reports that I've authored.
Uh, some of them were me as a Supervisor. And some were assigned to me as a
different sergeant was busy and couldn't get to it. So they reassigned it to
me to get it completed at least to the reporting portion and review. Uh, but
I-I would -- I would estimate somewhere around 10, give or take some.
Julia Fox: In those 10 or so use-of-force investigations that you oversaw
and you were responsible for the follow-up documentation, did you handle
10 those cases in a manner similar to the way you handled this case?
11
13
14 Julia Fox: Did you ever get any admonishment from a supervisor that the
15 manner in which you handled those cases was improper?
16
17 Oscar O'Con: I believe I got some guidance towards the beginning of my
18 use-of-forces like when I was newly supervising and newly r-r -- uh, uh,
19 reporting them up to the chain of command. But mostly, it was like, uh,
20 related to, uh, either adding certain information in there that wasn't
21 necessary at that time given that-that specific incident or like grammar and
22 spelling stuff. But as of recent to this incident, I have not received
23 anything different or any-any sort of guidance differently than what I was
24 doing.
25
O'Con - 81
SRPD000472
Julia Fox: So based on your experience with your supervisors up to this
point, was it your understanding that the way that you handled this use-of-
force investigation, setting apart when it was submitted -- outside of that,
was it your understanding that the way that you handled this use-of-force
investigation was aligned with the common practice here at your department?
Julia Fox: Okay. Was there anything when you arrived at the scene of this
10 event up until the time you left that stood out to you as remarkable or
11 alarming or e-especially significant in the realm of all things use of force?
12
13 Oscar O'Con: Uh, just initially when I r -- when I arrived, it was -- I-
14 I saw the-the bloody injury and then the blood on the ground. I was like, uh,
15 like that was alarming at first. But then, I saw where the injury came from.
16
17 And then, as-as medical aid was rendered by the fire department and the
18 fact that they weren't transporting or recommendation of transportation, that
19 it-it started to kind of, uh -- n -- I wasn't losing that concern. But it
20 wasn't as of -- like it was an emerg -- like it was a-a s -- a super
21 significant injury given that -- at that time with the information that I had
22 provided.
23
24 Julia Fox: So th-the injury or the blood or whatever became less remarkable
25 the more information that you garnered.
O'Con - 82
SRPD000473
Oscar O'Con: At the time of this incident, yes.
Julia Fox: Okay. That's it for me.
Paul Henry: Is there anything you'd like to add?
Oscar O'Con: Uh, I believe so. But before I do, I would like to take a
quick break.
10 Paul Henry: The current time is 3:32. And we'll be taking a break.
11
12 Oscar O'Con: Thank you.
13
14 Paul Henry: The current time is 3:33. And we're resuming our interview. So
15 when we left off, I asked if there was anything you wanted to add.
16
17 Oscar O'Con: Yes. So you asked questions about reporting and kind of
18 when my actual form was completed and turned in. Uh, so I wanted to add to
19 that as well because I think part of it, yes, like I-I was busy. And I had
20 all these different things.
21
22 But at the time of like this all going on, there was also other-other
23 people or other reports of the same fashion of use-of-forces that were turned
24 in significant time periods after the actual incidences that took place from
25 my -- from my understandings.
O'Con - 83
SRPD000474
And I remember, after my incident -- after this incident that took
place of question, there was emails and notifications made out to several
other supervisors to turn in outstanding use-of-forces. So to me, it was not
uncommon for these to not make their way for approval or through the chain of
command or to be authored after the fact of-of when this incident took place.
So --
Paul Henry: Okay.
10 Oscar O'Con: So I'd just like to say that for the record.
11
12 Paul Henry: Sure. Anything else?
13
14 Oscar O'Con: Unless you have anything else. But I'm-I'm good.
15
16 Paul Henry: Okay. Current time is 3:35. And this will conclude our interview.
17
18 [End of recorded material]
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O'Con - 84
SRPD000475

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O'Con

[Start of recorded material]

2:15 in the afternoon. This is a recorded interview with Corporal Oscar

personnel investigation. Corporal O'Con is represented by attorney Julia Fox.

Conducting the interview is myself, Paul Henry.

11 Before we begin the interview, I want to advise you of two sections of

14 of policy to disobey any legal directive or order issued by any department

15 member of a higher rank; --

17 -- 320.5.8 performance subsection C, it's also a violation of policy to

18 fail to participate in, to give false or misleading statements or

19 misrepresent or omit material information to a supervisor or other person in

20 a position of authority in connection with any investigation or in the

21 reporting of any department-related business. Do you understand each of these

24 Oscar O'Con: I do.

Oscar O'Con: I understand.

disciplinary action up to and including termination with the San Rafael

Police Department. Do you understand?

11 Oscar O'Con: I understand.

15 Oscar O'Con: That is correct.

19 court of law. You have a right to an attorney. If you can't afford an

25 as I've read them to you?

Oscar O'Con: No.

of an administrative investigation. You'll be asked questions specifically

10 directed and narrowly related to the performance of your official duties or

11 fitness for office.

15 States including the right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself and to

16 have a representative of your choice present during any questioning.

18 I further wish to advise you that, if you refuse to testify or to

19 answer questions related to the performance of your official duties or

23 If you do answer, neither your statements or any information or

25 you in any subsequent criminal proceeding. However, these statements may be

charges. Do you understand?

Oscar O'Con: I do.

Oscar O'Con: I have.

13 Oscar O'Con: I understand.

17 Oscar O'Con: Yes. Oscar, O-S-C-A-R, O'Con, O-C-O-N.

20 can get used to your voice?

22 Julia Fox: Sure. Julia Fox, J-U-L-I-A F-O-X.

department for approximately seven years, sworn approximately five or -- give

or take some time.

Paul Henry: Okay. Do you have other law enforcement experience?

Oscar O'Con: I do not.

Paul Henry: Okay. What is your current position?

11 Oscar O'Con: Uh, police corporal.

15 Oscar O'Con: Uh, as of today or as of the time of this incident?

17 Paul Henry: As of the time of the incident.

19 Oscar O'Con: A year and some change.

22 while at the police department besides patrol?

24 Oscar O'Con: I have.

Paul Henry: And what have you done?

Paul Henry: As a police officer.

I just want to clarify this like --

Paul Henry: At the time of the incident.

14 else -- uh, as a school resource officer. I believe that's it.

19 Oscar O'Con: We do.

21 Paul Henry: Can you describe the responsibilities of a corporal at the

So if there's no sergeant on duty, then you can -- you basically fill

that role as a -- aS a Supervisor and manage the streets and any-any

responsibilities as an officer in charge basically as a sergeant would be

acting on a patrol team.

Uh, in between that, responsibilities can change depending on

10 incidences. And if there's no supervisor readily available and they're

11 handling maybe another priority incident, you could operate as a supervisor

12 while also being -- holding a beat or responding to emergency calls for

Oscar O'Con Interview

Oscar O'Con Interview