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Quotes Debunked
Debunked: "A conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists" (Hoover)
Discussion in 'Quotes Debunked' started by Mick West, Dec 11, 2011.
Claimed Quote:
Content from external source
"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot

believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has
been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could
espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent."
The Elks Magazine (August 1956)
This is an accurate quote, however it's missing context. It's actually about communism, in the
1950s. It also might not have been written by Hoover, as many of the atricles attributed to him
are now thought to have been ghost-written by FBI employees.
Here's the original source with some context (many thanks to The Elks Magazine for
photocopying the relevant pages from their archive). The quote is on the first column of the last
page.
https://www.metabunk.org/images/1956 Elks Hoover OCR.pdf
Make no mistake about it. The strategy of the communist conspiracy has not changed. The
tactics only have altered and they are presently designed to develop a climate more favorable to
conspiratorial activities. Subversion, infiltration and espionage can best be carried out when the
people of a nation have been lulled into a state of lethargy.
Many times I have thought that if this young Republic is to fall before the grinding onslaught of a
slave-driven regime, it will not be solely because an enemy-directed fifth column has worked its
way into the body politic. Rather, it will be because we who are citizens are indifferent.
It is to me appalling that so few among all the citizens who daily enjoy the God-given blessings of
being free Americans are sufficiently interested in their future, and that of their children, to
acquaint themselves fully with the facts of communism. Too many people condemn the word yet
have not the vaguest notion of the evil which the word encompasses.
A handful of inspired men gave us our freedom. They cannot preserve it for us. That
responsibility rests with the individual American. And we must now face the harsh truth that the
objectives of communism are being steadily advanced because many of us do not readily
recognize the means used to advance them. The communist, meanwhile, does not allow himself
the luxury of inertia. He is intensely active. Because of him, the menace of communism in this
country will remain a menace until the American people make themselves aware of the
techniques of communism. No one who truly understands what it really is can he taken in by it.
Yet the individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he
cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil
which has been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures
could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.
The straightforward American cannot conceive of another citizen enlisting in the espionage
service of a foreign country, or deliberately propagating discontent, hatred and disunity at the
orders of an alien group. He cannot believe that any American would serve a philosophy which
moves inexorably toward the goal of reducing the status of the individual to that of slave.
Our frontier forefathers faced great dangers. They encountered heat and storm and starvation.
Again and again
they joined in battle against a hostile foe. But our forefathers were very much aware of one
thing. That was the nature of the enemy they faced. Insofar as possible, they prepared
themselves for eventualities. When the campfires flickered low on the long trek west, a watch
was set. Those men of the frontier knew that awareness of danger is the first requisite if one is
to combat that danger with any degree of effectiveness. Until the American citizen learns for
himself the nature of the present menace, communism will continue to be a deadly danger.
The conscientious citizen asks, "How can one be sure what the truth is? How can it be winnowed
out of the welter of propaganda which the communists and their apologists spew forth?"
All that I can say is—and I repeat what I have said many times—the American citizen must hew
to a line comprised of a little skepticism, a lot of knowledge, monumental faith, and an
everlasting desire to get the facts. He must ascertain for himself what the facts are. He must
accept nothing less than the facts— neither the majority version nor the minority version. He
must view all the evidence until the face of truth is plain.
The full article is an interesting read, given the historical context of the time. The American
Communist party had disassociated itself from Soviet Russia, after the excesses of Stalin were
revealed, in part though the "secret speech" earlier that year. The membership eventually
slipped from 80,000 to around 5,000. Approximately 1,500 of those were in the employ of the
FBI. Hoover boasted that he effectively financed the US communist party, so he could spy on it.
The last paragraph is interesting, in that it reveals the strong Christian bias of Hoover. I was
momentarily delighted to see him mention skepticism, until I realized it was playing third fiddle
to "monumental" faith. The whole paragraph is an interesting illustration of "faith" - which
amounts to belief without evidence. One must ascertain for oneself what the facts are, and
simultaneously have unquestioning belief in certain claimed facts. This harkens forward to the
modern conspiracy theorist's oft repeated call of "do some research" often being closely paired
with "nothing you can say will make me change my mind".
This quote was interesting to research as it comes from a very obscure article, that, until now,
did not appear to have been re-printed anywhere other than the 1956 Elks Magazine. So how
did it make it's way into modern conspiracy culture.
The attributions are a variation of the following:
J. Edgar Hoover, The Elks Magazine, August 1956, quoted by Jerreld L.Newquist in Prophets
Principles and National Survival, (Salt Lake City: Publishers Press, 1964), p. 273.
There seems to be almost no other record of this in Google Books before around 2001, when it
crops up in conspiracy circles.
Jerreld L. Newquist, was an apocalyptic preacher and writer.
There's a longer version of the quote in
Our Immediate Responsibility
by Ezra Taft Benson. Our Immediate Responsibility. BYU Devotional, October 25, 1966.
“We must now face the harsh truth that the objectives of communism are being steadily
advanced because many of us do not readily recognize the means used to advance them…. No
one who truly understands what it really is can be taken in by it. Yet the individual is
handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced
into our midst.” (J. Edgar Hoover, The Elks Magazine, August 1956; quoted in Newquist, op. cit.,
p. 273.)
And an even fuller (but still edited, and with no context) quote can be found here, in this online
version of "Prophets Principles and National Survival"
“We must now face the harsh truth that the objectives of communism are being steadily
advanced because many of us do not readily recognize the means used to advance them . . . . No
one who truly understands what it really is can be taken in by it. Yet the individual is
handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced
into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy
which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent . . . . Until the American citizen learns
for himself the nature of the present menace, communism will continue to be a deadly danger.”
(J. Edgar Hoover, The Elks Magazine, Aug., 1956)
This is verified in Google's scan of the 1964 version.
The quote crops up again in the John Birch society newsletter, American opinion, 1966, Vol 9,
Page 82. But it seems to has simply skipped though history from the original 1956 article in Elks,
via Newquist in 1964, a few reprints in the years after, then it was rediscovered, and went viral in
conspiracy culture when it could be easily spread via the internet.
One interesting reference is from an FOIA request. A citizen wrote to Hoover asking about L. Ron
Hubbard, and he received a form letter, along with the following anti-communist literature, #2 of
which was this article from the Elks Magazine.
1. "Red Goals and Christian Ideals."
2. "Communist New Look.'"
3. "The Communists Are After Our Minds."
4. "Breaking the Communist Spell."
5. "Communism: The Bitter Enemy of Religion."

The "bunk" in the usage of this quote is the suggestion that it applies to something other than
communism. Hoover was rabidly anti-communist, to the point of paranoia. While he may have
though there was some conspiracy within certain levels of american government, that only
referred to communism. If anyone was engaged in conspiracy it was Hoover himself via the
COINTELPRO program and his infiltration of the US Communist Party.
Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
Mick West, Dec 11, 2011 #1
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Juror No. 8
Juror No. 8
New Member
Mick said: ↑
The "bunk" in the usage of this quote is the suggestion that it applies to something other than
communism.
Have you ever considered the possibility that Hoover knew something about communism, and
who was really behind its spread around the world, that you don't know? That 'communism'
meant something different to Hoover back then than it does to you now?
With regard to the quote in question, it seems to me Hoover was trying to communicate
something on a much deeper level. You just have to read between the lines. This particular
portion of the quote:
[EX=https://www.metabunk.org/images/1956%20Elks%20Hoover%20OCR.pdf]The individual is
handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
[/EX]
This statement does not, in my view, fit the ordinary, garden-variety view of the international
communist conspiracy at that time. The American people weren't "handicapped" by the idea of
a communist conspiracy, nor did they see it as so "monstrous" that they couldn't believe it
existed. By 1956, the American people had grown accustomed to the idea of a "Red Scare" and
communist infiltration, as they had been subjected to it for decades.
The quote only makes sense if you understand the greater context of communism and the
people in our own midst pursuing it and for what ends.
Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
Juror No. 8, Apr 19, 2012 #2
Mick West
Mick West
Administrator
Staff Member
Juror No. 8 said: ↑
[EX=https://www.metabunk.org/images/1956%20Elks%20Hoover%20OCR.pdf]The individual is
handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.
[/EX]
This statement does not, in my view, fit the ordinary, garden-variety view of the international
communist conspiracy at that time. The American people weren't "handicapped" by the idea of
a communist conspiracy, nor did they see it as so "monstrous" that they couldn't believe it
existed. By 1956, the American people had grown accustomed to the idea of a "Red Scare" and
communist infiltration, as they had been subjected to it for decades.
Hoover is not saying that people think it's monstrous. He's pretty much saying the opposite, that
they don't see how monstrous it is, partly because it's SO monstrous (in his opinion) that they
can't believe it could be so bad.
Mick West, Apr 19, 2012 #3
Juror No. 8
Juror No. 8
New Member
Mick said: ↑
Right, because Hoover knew what the international communist conspiracy really was, who was
supporting it, and what the ultimate goal was, while the American people didn't. He could try to
sit down and explain it to the American people, but they wouldn't believe him. They would be
"handicapped" by what he was saying because it was so unbelievably "monstrous". That's what
he was really communicating, or trying to communicate, in that quote.
He was probably handicapped by it himself, as are most people who learn about this stuff.
Two videos that should be watched and understood to provide a little context:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GhPsJCXPqY
Juror No. 8, Apr 19, 2012 #4
Informative Informative x 1
Mick West
Mick West
Administrator
Staff Member
A hour of video from the 1980s is perhaps not the best way to communicate your point.
Mick West, Apr 19, 2012 #5
Juror No. 8
Juror No. 8
New Member
I already made my point. The videos just provide further, more detailed context to those
interested in learning more.
Juror No. 8, Apr 19, 2012 #6
gprinsze
gprinsze
New Member
Juror No. 8, I think you did a good job making you point succinctly, and thanks for posting the
YouTube links above. Both videos are excellent, and the importance of the material has nothing
to do with when they were recorded. To anyone who is interested in learning the deeper
elements of this conspiracy, and who is not afraid of the truth, both videos are highly relevant
and revealing. The interview with Norman Dodd is remarkable on a number of counts, not least
of which is his recounting of how the major foundations (and the elite banking interests behind
the foundations) were not only determined to get the US involved in major wars and to keep
those wars going longer rather than shorter, but also to take control of the American Historical
Association and how history is taught in the US. This is just one technique which has been so
effectively used by the elites to keep the public in the dark about the much larger conspiracy
which Hoover may or may not have been referring to (I suspect that he was).
Anyway, all of the material in both videos, though never taught in schools or discussed in the
mainstream media for obvious reasons, is easily verified by numerous other sources. The Dodd
material in particular is backed up by the excellent book Foundations: Their Power and Influence
by Rene Wormser who was one of the legal counsels for the Reece Committee. Another good
illustration of the corrupting influence in academia is in the documentary Inside Job, and only a
fool would trust the mainstream media to accurately recount the role of its elite ownership in
the broad sweep of important historical events. It's no wonder the vast majority of Americans
are so comprehensively clueless about the subject matter; they are systematically taught
untruths, and have been for well over a hundred years.
gprinsze, Apr 25, 2012 #7
Juror No. 8
Juror No. 8
New Member
gprinsze said: ↑
Anyway, all of the material in both videos, though never taught in schools or discussed in the
mainstream media for obvious reasons, is easily verified by numerous other sources. The Dodd
material in particular is backed up by the excellent book Foundations: Their Power and Influence
by Rene Wormser who was one of the legal counsels for the Reece Committee. Another good
illustration of the corrupting influence in academia is in the documentary Inside Job, and only a
fool would trust the mainstream media to accurately recount the role of its elite ownership in
the broad sweep of important historical events. It's no wonder the vast majority of Americans
are so comprehensively clueless about the subject matter; they are systematically taught
untruths, and have been for well over a hundred years.
I've meant to find and buy a copy of that Foundations book you referenced for a number of
years, but have never gotten around to it. I've read many excerpts from the book online, but no
matter how many times I read it, I find it shocking and horrifying. That's one of the reasons I find
that Norman Dodd interview so powerful. I can really relate to what Kathryn Casey must have
gone through in finding out what she found out. Her reaction to the revelations of the Reece
investigation bears out Hoover's description of those who encounter this conspiracy:
The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot

believe it exists.
Anyway, since you referenced the top-down corrupting influence over the academe, I was
wondering if you've ever read this particular Huffington Post on the Federal Reserve's efforts to
control and dominate the teaching of economics in America? It's pretty fascinating and explains
why there's no real critical discussion of the Federal Reserve within the establishment.
The Federal Reserve, through its extensive network of consultants, visiting scholars, alumni and
staff economists, so thoroughly dominates the field of economics that real criticism of the
central bank has become a career liability for members of the profession, an investigation by the
Huffington Post has found.
This dominance helps explain how, even after the Fed failed to foresee the greatest economic
collapse since the Great Depression, the central bank has largely escaped criticism from
academic economists. In the Fed's thrall, the economists missed it, too.
"The Fed has a lock on the economics world," says Joshua Rosner, a Wall Street analyst who
correctly called the meltdown. "There is no room for other views, which I guess is why
economists got it so wrong."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/07/priceless-how-the-federal_n_278805.html
Juror No. 8, Apr 26, 2012 #8
gprinsze
gprinsze
New Member
I completely agree about Kathryn Casey. Learning the deeper story has been shocking for me
even though I've been highly suspicious for years. For someone like her, who had no suspicion
going in, and then suddenly experienced the near equivalent of finding herself in Satan's private
office with no advance warning, it's understandable that she was shaken to the core. This is
exactly what Hoover was talking about: very few people will ever be confronted with such
comprehensive evidence; the vast majority will get just a glimpse at most, then recoil with
horror. After that, the idea of coming back to learn more is just too terrifying. Having one's world
view turned completely upside down is something not many people can handle.
The elites have been well aware of this for centuries, and it's definitely a big part of the problem.
Waking up is hard to do. Therein lies the brilliance of Hoovers words, regardless of whether he
really wrote them. He probably had help, but at the very least I'm sure it's how he really felt. Few
people were in a better position than him to know. As for poor Kathryn Casey, she really didn't
have a choice, she was just suddenly and unexpectedly thrust into a totally shocking situation.
It's nice that Carroll Reece made the effort to find a different job for her, and very sad the fate
she ultimately suffered.
I was not aware of the Huffington Post article, but that's also a VERY revealing quote along
similar lines, I'll definitely read the whole story. Thanks for posting. I'll also send it along to a
political scientist friend of mine who I've been debating with for years over these very topics. As
recently as yesterday he was telling me that just can't subscribe to "conspiracy theories" because
in his view political scientists, historians, and economists usually get things right. Ha!!! Yeah,
sure. I'll definitely pass the Huffington Post article along to him, as well as Hoover, Dodd, and
Sutton. Thanks again, good stuff!
Juror No. 8
Juror No. 8
New Member
gprinsze said: ↑
I completely agree about Kathryn Casey. Learning the deeper story has been shocking for me
even though I've been highly suspicious for years.
I'm curious, how do you mean this? What made you suspicious and for how long?
I was not aware of the Huffington Post article, but that's also a VERY revealing quote along
similar lines, I'll definitely read the whole story. Thanks for posting. I'll also send it along to a
political scientist friend of mine who I've been debating with for years over these very topics. As
recently as yesterday he was telling me that just can't subscribe to "conspiracy theories" because
in his view political scientists, historians, and economists usually get things right. Ha!!! Yeah,
sure.
You're probably dealing with someone who is a lost cause. At the very minimum, every clear-
thinking, alert, and even just somewhat intelligent adult should, at the very least, have figured
out by now that something is very, very wrong in this country. Even if they can't figure out what
it is specifically, or put any of the pieces of the puzzle together, they should at least be a little bit
"suspicious", as you earlier put it.
Any adult who is still not yet at that stage, this late in the game, is pretty much hopeless.
I'll definitely pass the Huffington Post article along to him, as well as Hoover, Dodd, and Sutton.
Thanks again, good stuff!
No problem.
Juror No. 8, Apr 27, 2012 #10
gprinsze
gprinsze
New Member
@Juror No. 8, sorry for delayed response. I guess I started developing a capacity for suspicion
pretty early, I remember noticing hypocrisy and lying on the part of certain adults when I was a
kid. Before long I realized that it seemed much more common with people in various positions of
pseudo authority, so a very healthy skepticism of "authority" was part of my world view by the
time I became a teenager. After that, the initiating blockbuster event was seeing the Zapruder
film for the first time, a real WTF?!? moment to say the least. Next was seeing the video of
Eisenhower's fairwell speech, then a huge curiosity about that period of history. What was this
military industrial complex all about, why was Kennedy killed, and who was behind it? I became
a full blown history addict, and started working my way backwards from the Cold War era to
WWII, to the Great Depression, to WWI and the Bolshevik Revolution, to the founding of the Fed
in 1913, to the ongoing efforts over the 124 years prior to that to make the US central bank
permanent, and so on.
There were fingerprints of elite manipulation, lies, enormous elite benefit, and horrible public
detriment in every major event I looked at, especially wars, economic upheavals, and related
events. After studying countless major crises which appeared to have been caused by elites, for
elite benefit, covered up with lies, and paid for by the public, it became clear that the
mainstream media and even the "education" system were indentured servants to elite interests.
By the 1990's I a was certified skeptic of all official stories and mainstream explanations, and, as
part of the history habit, well versed in historic false flag operations. When Oklahoma City took
place, I was immediately suspicious on several counts, and when 9/11 happened it was obvious
the very first day that we were being lied to. I had actually read the infamous PNAC document
before 2001. Then the outrageous lies used to justify the invasion of Iraq, the stunning
crackdown on civil liberties, the inexorable march to global "integration" and eventual one world
government, the continuation of all the same policies under Obama, and the utter failure of "the
fourth estate" to hold anyone to account. The entire system is a fraud, and the joke is on us.
Lately my historical studies have gone much further back, and just when I thought I could no
longer be surprised, it's become clear that certain religious developments from over two
thousand years ago played an enormous role in the tumultuous events of the 20th century,
especially the development of Communism, and they continue to have a huge impact right up to
the present day. That's a very long, fascinating, and dismaying story which I won't even begin to
go into, but it does make me wonder if Hoover was aware of the deeper issues. His remarks can
be interpreted either way. But just the basics of the true elite power structure of the past
hundred years, which completely dominates politics, controls the world, and is planning a very
dark future for anything resembling democracy, is something which not only ordinary people are
oblivious to, but even highly "educated" people are ignorant of. It would be hilarious if it wasn't
so terrifying. And you may well be right that my friend is a lost cause. I'll keep working on him
since our friendship goes back to childhood, but so many like him, especially those with a lot of
"education" under their belts, really do still trust the mainstream. Hopeless is right! Oy vey...
Charlie Primero
Charlie Primero
Active Member
gprinsze said: ↑
That's a very long, fascinating, and dismaying story which I won't even begin to go into, but it
does make me wonder if Hoover was aware of the deeper issues.
The fact Hoover was able to amass so much power, and hold it for such a long time indicates to
me that he was a "Team Player" for the Empire.
Usually all threats to the human farming model are extinguished or co-opted as soon as they
arise.
Charlie Primero, Jul 1, 2012 #12
MikeC
MikeC
Senior Member
Such as?
MikeC, Jul 1, 2012 #13
Charlie Primero
Charlie Primero
Active Member
NAACP, Occupy, etc.
Charlie Primero, Jul 3, 2012 #14
lee h oswald
lee h oswald
Banned
Banned
Mick said: ↑
That's a terrible bit of sophistry - and I mean terrible because it's bad, not because it's good!
You're putting words in J (or is that 'gay'?) Edgar Hoover's mouth. I'm sure he'd have liked a bit
more than that - but you're talking about some gay, cross-dressing FBI chief who's in his closet
jumping mad because of reds under the bed, you couldn't write it - it sounds like a farce,
because that's what it is. Aren't you glad you're now American?
lee h oswald, Jul 3, 2012 #15
Mick West
Mick West
Administrator
Staff Member
lee h oswald said: ↑
That's a terrible bit of sophistry - and I mean terrible because it's bad, not because it's good!
You're putting words in J (or is that 'gay'?) Edgar Hoover's mouth.
Well, what do you think he meant? It seems pretty obvious and straightforward to me.
been
introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a
philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent."
Mick West, Jul 3, 2012 #16
lee h oswald
lee h oswald
Banned
Banned
Mick said: ↑
Well, what do you think he meant? It seems pretty obvious and straightforward to me.
been
introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a
philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent."
a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.
What?! Surely not!
a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists
I can't believe it
The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been
introduced into our midst.
No! Not evil!
It's a load of J's hot air. Hysteria, I think they call it. He's probably talking about the introduction
of hair gel to challenge Brylcreem.
lee h oswald, Jul 3, 2012 #17
Machiavelli
Machiavelli
Guest
I found this because when i saw the quote used on something regarding a conspiracy theory, i
suspected it had been taken out of context. However it is a very interesting quote especially the
last bit, his observation about what people will refuse to believe, is very telling, and the reason
the quote has been misappropriated so much is that it is true, and if one takes the view even
communism was part of the grander global plot, especially the scare mongering about it in the
U.S in an almost identical way to the war on terror, as if it was a standard tactic, to paraphrase,
within a conspiracy to monstrous for the public to believe
Machiavelli, Oct 20, 2012 #18
Gavrilo_Princip
Gavrilo_Princip
New Member
Gah this thread is so frustrating I had to register just to comment about it.
I too came to this thread from someone in a youtube comment using the quote to insinuate a
conspiracy entirely different from communism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=ld5tERIBvsg&feature=related quite the opposite in fact.)
The quote caught my eye for its hyperbolic use of rhetorical fallacy.
Well done and thank you to Mick for revealing the true origins and context of the quote. Only for
following posts to completely miss the irony of it. Can we not all agree that on the evidence of
history and overwhelming general consensus, that there was none and nor has there ever been
a global, all-powerful and insidious communist conspiracy?
Therefore, the fact that this quote has been applied out of context to various other alleged
conspiracies indicates not its inherent truth but on the contrary, its capacity to rhetorically
convince someone of a falsehood.
Machiavelli in the latest post is repeating just such a fallacy, even with the evidence of the
quotes context staring him in the face, he co-opts it to refer to "the grander global plot", which I
am quite sure Hoover did not mean at all given what we know, and which I presume communism
had sweet bugger all to do with (grander global plots typically being about money and a
capitalist ruling elite).
It is also sweetly ironic that conspiracy theorists use this quote as evidence that people are
simply unable to comprehend the monstrosity of their given conspiracy, whilst it is an existent
conspiracy only because hundreds, if not hundreds of thousands of people already do
comprehend it. The human mind (let alone the American) is eminently capable of conceiving of
some monstrous, all-encompassing and invisible threat, and does so, frequently, and in many
many established and verified cases, fallaciously so.
The truth in this quote, if there is any, I would argue refutes all conspiracy theories. And that
truth is that the human mind is incapable (currently) of comprehending all the myriad
complexities and mitigating factors that cause things of significant consequence. To my mind,
this is the only thing say the global financial crisis and the rise of communism have in common.
They came about from so many complex socio-economic, psychological and unique individual
factors that to boil them down to a conspiracy agreement between a select few is disingenuous
in the extreme.
Gavrilo_Princip, Nov 15, 2012 #19
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Sunny
Sunny
New Member
@Gavrilo_Princip
to quote you, "Gah this thread is so frustrating I had to register just to comment about it." But in
response to you....I, too, was "like her, who had NO suspicion going in, and then suddenly
experienced the near equivalent of finding herself in Satan's private office with no advance
warning, it's understandable that she was shaken to the core." I've lived a safe little
life....married happily 25 years, three daughters, Jesus centered home, just.....normal and
boring....NEVER expected THIS....BUT after the TRAVESTY of an election(please don't respond to
that---not interested in your opinion if you disagree with that...I've done TOO much research on
the liberal left...but NEVER expected it of conservatives)...just IMAGINE my surprise when I heard
PAPA GEORGE BUSH STATE we WOULD have a One World Order,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g , THEN, son, George W. call it New Order of the
Ages, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF-obJ8lYWc , then, Obama..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHJkS-bAJv8&NR=1&feature=endscreen . Say what you will,
but THIS IDEA WAS HITLERS...who btw, was affiliated with the radical muslims....
Sunny, Nov 16, 2012 #20
Mick West
Mick West
Administrator
Staff Member
Sunny said: ↑
@Gavrilo_Princip
to quote you, "Gah this thread is so frustrating I had to register just to comment about it." But in
response to you....I, too, was "like her, who had NO suspicion going in, and then suddenly
experienced the near equivalent of finding herself in Satan's private office with no advance
warning, it's understandable that she was shaken to the core." I've lived a safe little
life....married happily 25 years, three daughters, Jesus centered home, just.....normal and
boring....NEVER expected THIS....BUT after the TRAVESTY of an election(please don't respond to
that---not interested in your opinion if you disagree with that...I've done TOO much research on
the liberal left...but NEVER expected it of conservatives)...just IMAGINE my surprise when I heard
PAPA GEORGE BUSH STATE we WOULD have a One World Order,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g , THEN, son, George W. call it New Order of the
Ages, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF-obJ8lYWc , then, Obama..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHJkS-bAJv8&NR=1&feature=endscreen . Say what you will,
but THIS IDEA WAS HITLERS...who btw, was affiliated with the radical muslims....
Have you considered that people are simply describe things as "new" because they are
changing? That they actually have no idea that "new world order" is supposedly a conspiracy?
If the world changes (which it always does) we get a "new world order". That's all.
Mick West, Nov 17, 2012 #21
Unregistered
Unregistered
Guest
If that's what you chose to believe......are you an atheist?
Unregistered, Nov 17, 2012 #22
Mick West
Mick West
Administrator
Staff Member
I don't "chose" to believe anything. I believe what is best supported by the evidence. "Choosing"
a belief is nonsensical.
I don't see any evidence for chemtrails, or the existence of a god. This does not mean they don't
exist. It just means there's no evidence that they exist.
Mick West, Nov 17, 2012 #23
Like Like x 1
Jazzy
Jazzy
Senior Member
Gavrilo_Princip said: ↑
thank you to Mick for revealing the true origins and context of the quote. Only for following
posts to completely miss the irony of it.
I was about to write something less elegant myself, not having enough hair to tear out. Thanks,
Gavrilo. :)
P.S. And Mick.
Jazzy, Nov 17, 2012 #24
Geronimo
Geronimo
New Member
Thanks for the link to the Huffingtonpost site. It was very helpful. I connect the Dots now. Also, I
had a feeling that the Hoover quote had to do with the FED more then Communism...
Geronimo, Mar 17, 2013 #25
Mick West
Mick West
Administrator
Staff Member
Geronimo said: ↑
Thanks for the link to the Huffingtonpost site. It was very helpful. I connect the Dots now. Also, I
had a feeling that the Hoover quote had to do with the FED more then Communism...
Then why does he keep talking about Communism? Did you read the full context of the quote?
https://www.metabunk.org/images/1956 Elks Hoover OCR.pdf
Make no mistake about it. The strategy of the communist conspiracy has not changed. The
tactics only have altered and they are presently designed to develop a climate more favorable to
conspiratorial activities. Subversion, infiltration and espionage can best be carried out when the
people of a nation have been lulled into a state of lethargy.
Many times I have thought that if this young Republic is to fall before the grinding onslaught of a
slave-driven regime, it will not be solely because an enemy-directed fifth column has worked its
way into the body politic. Rather, it will be because we who are citizens are indifferent.
It is to me appalling that so few among all the citizens who daily enjoy the God-given blessings of
being free Americans are sufficiently interested in their future, and that of their children, to
acquaint themselves fully with the facts of communism. Too many people condemn the word yet
have not the vaguest notion of the evil which the word encompasses.
A handful of inspired men gave us our freedom. They cannot preserve it for us. That
responsibility rests with the individual American. And we must now face the harsh truth that the
objectives of communism are being steadily advanced because many of us do not readily
recognize the means used to advance them. The communist, meanwhile, does not allow himself
the luxury of inertia. He is intensely active. Because of him, the menace of communism in this
country will remain a menace until the American people make themselves aware of the
techniques of communism. No one who truly understands what it really is can he taken in by it.
Yet the individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he
cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil
which has been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures
could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.
The straightforward American cannot conceive of another citizen enlisting in the espionage
service of a foreign country, or deliberately propagating discontent, hatred and disunity at the
orders of an alien group. He cannot believe that any American would serve a philosophy which
moves inexorably toward the goal of reducing the status of the individual to that of slave.
Our frontier forefathers faced great dangers. They encountered heat and storm and starvation.
Again and again
they joined in battle against a hostile foe. But our forefathers were very much aware of one
thing. That was the nature of the enemy they faced. Insofar as possible, they prepared
themselves for eventualities. When the campfires flickered low on the long trek west, a watch
was set. Those men of the frontier knew that awareness of danger is the first requisite if one is
to combat that danger with any degree of effectiveness. Until the American citizen learns for
himself the nature of the present menace, communism will continue to be a deadly danger.
The conscientious citizen asks, "How can one be sure what the truth is? How can it be winnowed
out of the welter of propaganda which the communists and their apologists spew forth?"
All that I can say is—and I repeat what I have said many times—the American citizen must hew
to a line comprised of a little skepticism, a lot of knowledge, monumental faith, and an
everlasting desire to get the facts. He must ascertain for himself what the facts are. He must
accept nothing less than the facts— neither the majority version nor the minority version. He
must view all the evidence until the face of truth is plain.
Mick West, Mar 17, 2013 #26
Geronimo
Geronimo
New Member
Yes, I read it. In my humble opinion, is that the FED itself is comprised of NOT Jewish, but
Communist Russians. (although Jewish Communists clearly could be happening?) The Russian
Communists would obviously help the Jews, if it helped there own causes. They use Israel, and
support their Zionist government, as if hiding under a Mother's skirt. It's a way to get the micro-
scope off of them? And distract the people with Communism, as your money has been
systematically destroyed since the year after the Titanic sunk! 1913 created USA FIAT Monopoly
Money, that was spent around the whole World, buying Corporations and Properties, using fake
money. The World Bank, and the I.M.F., and the 2 other arms, so to say.
Cairenn
Cairenn
Senior Member
What the heck? Your reasoning is not making any sense to me. The Fed is not made of of
Communists of any type.
What is your fascination with mentioning Jews in this?
What is important with money is is it able to purchase products that one needs and wants. The
only 'fake money' is counterfeit' money.
Cairenn, Mar 17, 2013 #28
Geronimo
Geronimo
New Member
From the Huffington post,
The pharmaceutical industry has similarly worked to control key medical journals, but that
involves several
companies. In the field of economics, it's just the Fed.
The only reason I brought up that sentence, is that education has beed manipulated in both
cases. And too make it even worse for the Public, is the use of Fluoride, in the drinking water for
many decades, and a large amount of other Evil tampering with the F.D.A.'s permision. Such as
Flu Shots, and Vacines, GMO foods, etc., etc. If Fluoride makes us unable to think straight and be
aggressive when necessary, then we the Public are fighting more the Communism, in my humble
opinion. We are not fighting Satanism as well...
Cairenn
Cairenn
Senior Member
The Huffington post is NOT always accurate. I have found several article there that needed to
have been better vetted before publication.
There is a LONG thread here debunking Fluoride. Please read it. Fluoride does not control us,
that is pure bunk.
You seem to worry about a lot of things, that science has proven to be useful and helpful to
people and animals.
Geronimo
Geronimo
New Member
Caireen, perhaps you would not even know if Fluoride has effected you, or anyone you know, for
that matter? There are tons of scientific evidence about the damages of "Fluoride" Perhaps you
should look at other sites? Just a suggestion, Historically, most cases of acute fluoride toxicity
have followed accidental ingestion of sodium fluoride based insecticides or rodenticides.
Currently, in advanced countries, most cases of fluoride exposure are due to the ingestion of
dental fluoride products.
I really don't want to hear back from you, about the safety of Vaccine shots. Please spare me.
Thank you.
Pete Tar
Pete Tar
Moderator
Staff Member
Geronimo said: ↑
Caireen, perhaps you would not even know if Fluoride has effected you, or anyone you know, for
that matter? ...
But if can affect you negatively, that effect must be detectable? What test should she take to see
if she's been affected?
Pete Tar, Mar 17, 2013 #32
Cairenn
Cairenn
Senior Member
It is interesting, it seems that Geronimo wants to make statements and not have them
challenged.
I would like to know about any test to prove this. Heck, I can find my IQ scores from when I
tested into Mensa, some 25 yrs ago. If it is making me dumber, wouldn't a new IQ test show
that? If so, I wish I had my scores from when I was in college in the early 70s, when I tested into
Mensa. It would be fun to be a triple 9
MikeC
MikeC
Senior Member
Geronimo said: ↑
..If Fluoride makes us unable to think straight and be aggressive when necessary, then we the
Public are fighting more the Communism, in my humble opinion. We are not fighting Satanism as
well...
It all comes down to the "If.." at the start of your statement really, doesn't it - quite an important
word.
Perhaps you should actually establish that that is the case first?
Then of course you need to establish that there is actually any such thing as Satan in order to
have Satanism.
If you can show those then the 3rd step is to show that one causes the other......
I look forward to your analysis.
MikeC, Mar 17, 2013 #34
Like Like x 3
Grieves
Grieves
Senior Member
There is a LONG thread here debunking Fluoride. Please read it. Fluoride does not control us,
that is pure bunk.
Actually, if only by the lack of a 'Debunked' heading that particular thread, I'd say no conclusion
has yet been made, even within this site.
But if can affect you negatively, that effect must be detectable?
If you'll take a look at the thread mentioned above, you'll see a series of studies cited which
seem to have detected them. The value of these studies are of course debated by proponents of
fluoridation (who point out the lack of adequate controls while evading the fact every study
which came out pro-fluoride lacked the same controls) but no one's disproved or dismissed
them. That aside, dental fluorosis is a major problem for kids in the USA. People say its 'just'
cosmetic, and maybe having so much fluoride in your system that it screws with your teeth from
the inside-out has no other negative effect on any other organ in your body, but growing up with
just one brown blotch on your front-tooth can have a major impact on how people see/treat
you, and your self esteem. Imagine being a kid and able to see on people's faces when they
notice it, maybe refraining from smiling in the hopes that they wont. Does that represent brain
control? No. But it's a clear example of how a program the worth of which is under increasing
debate has a very real, very measurable negative effect on the lives of some of the people upon
whom it is imposed.
Then of course you need to establish that there is actually any such thing as Satan in order to
have Satanism.
Ludicrous statement. Like saying god must be proven before the existence of Christianity can be
entertained.
Grieves, Mar 18, 2013 #35
Like Like x 1
Geronimo
Geronimo
New Member
Grieves, thanks for the well put information.
Geronimo
Geronimo
New Member
This data is for Mensa minded Cairenn...
Einstein never took an IQ test (they are a fairly recent development) so no one knows what his
IQ is. But the fact that he was brilliant in some fields doesn't mean he would have had a high IQ.
There are people, called 'idiot savants' who are incredibly brilliant in one field, but hopeless at
other things. For some reason, mathematics is often the field of special intensity - they can
calculate numbers in their heads that you or I would have trouble entering into a computer, and
solve them faster than the computer. They can tell you what day of the week any date in history
was, or project it forward into the future. But they may not be able to figure out how to get
across town on a bus. So IQ, no matter how high it is, doesn't always indicate brilliance. And your
personal IQ can and does vary over your lifetime, so it isn't a set number.
It is used as a guide, however. IQs of under 80 are generally deemed to need assisted living
conditions, those with IQs over 135 are MENSA level. These are people who sit around and do
math problems for fun and find sudoko and crosswords much too easy.
Some people with high IQs are not especially socially adept, because they can't undestand how
other people (with lower IQs) have such trouble understanding things that come naturally to
the. Others with high IQs are wonderful, kind and caring people. So there aren't really any
generalizations you can make about people with high or low IQs.
Like Like x 1
Geronimo
Geronimo
New Member
Another useful site about the FED. http://www.barefootsworld.net/fedsecrets_00.html
Mick West
Mick West
Administrator
Staff Member
Geronimo said: ↑
There are people, called 'idiot savants' who are incredibly brilliant in one field, but hopeless at
other things. For some reason, mathematics is often the field of special intensity - they can
calculate numbers in their heads that you or I would have trouble entering into a computer, and
solve them faster than the computer.
A minor correction, nobody can do math faster than a computer. That idea derives from
comparing mental mathematicians with people using a calculator, but that includes input time. A
small modern computer such as an iPhone 5 is rated at about 600 megaflops, which is
600,000,000 mathematical operations per second. The big computers now are measured in
petaflops (1 peta = 1,000,000 mega).
Mick West, Mar 18, 2013 #39
Like Like x 1
Cairenn
Cairenn
Senior Member
I only mentioned Mensa, because YOU implied that I was being 'dumbed down' by the fluoride
in my water. If it was, then my IQ should be declining as I aged.
Now, it would seem real easy, to me to prove that fluoride was damaging IQs, by tracking IQ
scores through life.
We were NOT discussing how 'socially adept' folks are, we were discussing intelligence. Why the
distraction?
Now offer some proof that fluoride is reducing our IQs.
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Quotes Debunked

Debunked: "A conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists" (Hoover)

Discussion in 'Quotes Debunked' started by Mick West, Dec 11, 2011.

Content from external source

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot

The Elks Magazine (August 1956)

https://www.metabunk.org/images/1956 Elks Hoover OCR.pdf

Content from external source

Content from external source

Jerreld L. Newquist, was an apocalyptic preacher and writer.

There's a longer version of the quote in

Our Immediate Responsibility

Content from external source

This is verified in Google's scan of the 1964 version.

Content from external source

1. "Red Goals and Christian Ideals."

2. "Communist New Look.'"

3. "The Communists Are After Our Minds."

4. "Breaking the Communist Spell."

5. "Communism: The Bitter Enemy of Religion."

Last edited: Nov 20, 2013

Mick West, Dec 11, 2011 #1

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013

Juror No. 8, Apr 19, 2012 #2

Juror No. 8 said: ↑

Last edited: Nov 20, 2013

Mick West, Apr 19, 2012 #3

Juror No. 8, Apr 19, 2012 #4

Juror No. 8, Apr 19, 2012 #6

The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot

Juror No. 8, Apr 26, 2012 #8

gprinsze, Apr 26, 2012 #9

Juror No. 8, Apr 27, 2012 #10

gprinsze, Apr 29, 2012 #11

Charlie Primero, Jul 1, 2012 #12

MikeC, Jul 1, 2012 #13

NAACP, Occupy, etc.

Charlie Primero, Jul 3, 2012 #14

lee h oswald, Jul 3, 2012 #15

lee h oswald said: ↑

Content from external source

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot

Mick West, Jul 3, 2012 #16

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot

What?! Surely not!

a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists

introduced into our midst.

No! Not evil!

lee h oswald, Jul 3, 2012 #17

Machiavelli, Oct 20, 2012 #18

Gavrilo_Princip, Nov 15, 2012 #19

Like Like x 2 Agree Agree x 1

Sunny, Nov 16, 2012 #20

If that's what you chose to believe......are you an atheist?

Unregistered, Nov 17, 2012 #22

Mick West, Nov 17, 2012 #23

Jazzy, Nov 17, 2012 #24

Geronimo, Mar 17, 2013 #25

https://www.metabunk.org/images/1956 Elks Hoover OCR.pdf

Content from external source

Last edited: Nov 20, 2013

Mick West, Mar 17, 2013 #26

Geronimo, Mar 17, 2013 #27

What is your fascination with mentioning Jews in this?