Thucydides 5.

84-116
“The Melian Dialogue”
Athens made peace and an alliance with the Lacedaemonians (Spartans) after 10 years of
fighting in 421 BC with the “Peace of Nicias.” Thebes, Elis, Corinth and Megara refused to make
peace with Athens, but Lacedaemon pressured them not to attack Athens again. Instead Corinth,
Elis, and Mantinea allied with Argos and created a third block (while Thebes and Megara sat on the
fence) as soon as Argos’ 30 year truce with Lacedaemon expired. Athens now looked to make
some quick cash at the expense of several small neutrals. They showed up in force with the fleet
and gave them an ultimatum: join the Athenian alliance and receive “protection” or be destroyed.
The case of Melos is especially famous, owing to Thucydides’ unusual account. He recreates the
diplomatic discussion as if it were a Platonic dialogue (in truth, Plato copies the style that
Thucydides used first). The Melians claimed descent from Lacedaemonian settlers 700 years
before and hoped this bond of kinship would save them. Their efforts to persuade the Athenians
not to force this ultimatum are brushed aside when the Athenians tell them that equal powers
negotiate with justice, while the strong do what they want to the weak. Much later Melos again
became famous when in 1820 a statue of Aphrodite (missing its arms) emerged from the harbor, the Venus de Milo.

84 And in the summer after Alcibiades sailing with 20 ships into Argos took 300 of the
Argives who still seemed suspicious or favorable to the side of the Lacedaemonians, and the
Athenians deposited them in custody on islands nearest the lands they ruled. And against the
island Melos, the Athenians campaigned with 30 of their own ships, six of the Chians and twelve
Methymnian ships, a force of 1200 of their own hoplites and 300 archers and 20 horse archers,
and of the allies and islanders about 1500 hoplites. The Melians were colonists of the
Lacedaemonians, and they did not wish to submit to the Athenians as the other islanders had. At
first they stayed quiet, belonging to neither side, but when the Athenians used force against them,
laying waste their land with this preparation, they took up arms. The Athenian generals
Cleomedes, son of Lycomedes, and Tisias, son of Teisimachus, before they did any harm to the
land, sent ambassadors to treat with the Melians. The Melians did not lead them to (speak
before) the people, but (only) before the council and “the few” regarding those things which they
had come to say. The Athenians then spoke as follows:

85 “Since our words are not to take place before the people, evidently in order that the many
not be affected by our speech, hearing the many seductive examples and uncontested arguments
in full, and thus be deceived (for we recognize that your audience thinks it better for us to speak
only to the few) and you sitting here do it in a still safer way. For responding to each comment
you will make your decision and not in a single speech, but replying immediately to what we say
which does not seem to be spoken suitably. And first if it is pleasing for us to speak, say so.”

86 And the councilmen of the Melians responded, “the fairness of answering one another in
a calm way is not a matter you can fault, but the present circumstances clearly differ from
fairness, as we are not just about to go to war, but already are at war. For we see that you have
come as judges of what is to be said, and if this matter is settled at fairly according to
suitableness, we by proving ourselves to be right in our just cause, will get war, and if not,
should we give in, we will get slavery.”

1
87 Athenians: Well then, if you have come together to argue about the things to come
based on your hidden fears or if you plan on talking about any other matter than the present
situation or if you will disregard the plain truth about how you can preserve the safety of your
polis, we can stop now. But if we are here to talk turkey we should talk.

88 Melians: it is natural and deserving pardon in such a situation for men in such a position
as ours to resort to many words as well as thoughts. However the meeting is taking place
regarding our city’s safety, and let the discussion proceed, which you propose, as you propose.

89 Athenians: Very well, we ourselves do not say with polished words either that we rule
justly, having driven out the Persians, or that we act this way because we were wronged, in an
untrustworthy mass of words. Neither should you believe you can persuade us nor will we
consider you worthy for saying either that although you are Lacedaemonian colonists you could
have joined them in the war -- but did not - or that you have never harmed us up until now. We
think it best that both sides aim at possible goals which can truly be accomplished (not fantastic
hopes), understanding the reality known to both sides: that justice in mortal affairs arises when
equal necessity makes both sides talk, but in cases between the unequal, the superior powers do
what they want and the weaker must accede.

90 Melians: As you force us, as the foundation of the discussion, contrary to what is right,
to speak of the expedient - we think at any rate, it is useful that you not destroy a principle of the
common good: that for any man who at any time falls in danger that there be such a thing as
justice and fair play even if some one has not entirely proven his point, he should still benefit a
little. And this is also in your interests, because when your state falls you may ask in this way
not to suffer the greatest punishment, and you will become an example to others.

91 Athenians: Look, we do not anticipate the end of our empire with dismay, even if it
should happen, for it is not those ruling others as the Lacedaemonians also do, who are terrible to
the vanquished (and it is not the Lacedaemonians with whom we are at odds right now), but the
subject peoples who when they overcome their rulers are the meanest. And in terms of that
matter, leave it to us to take the risk. But we are here for the benefit of our empire and for the
salvation of your city and when we explain our conditions, we will make these things clear to
you, that by our acquiring domain over you without trouble you will be useful and your being
saved will work out for the benefit of both of us.

92 Melians: And how does it “benefit” us to be enslaved, as much as it benefits you to rule?

93 Athenians: Because you - before suffering the worst that can be - will be spared and
subjected and we would gain by not destroying you.

94 Melians: And you would not allow us to act quietly being your friends rather than your
enemies, and allies to neither side?

2
95 Athenians: No, for your friendship weakens us more than your hatred harms us. Your
hatred is proof of our power to the others we rule.1

96 Melians: Do your subjects see it as reasonable to put those who have been conquered in
the same category as the many who are your subjects, some of whom are rebelling again, and
those who do not belong to you in any way?

97 Athenians: Regarding a claim based on justice they think it is the same for both, that
because of power we leave some alone and if we do not attack them it is from fear. So that
outside of this, being the masters of many more, security comes to us through subduing you,
especially since you are islanders and weaker than other islanders, so it is especially important
that you not come out on top (by escaping our imperialism).

98 Melians: Do you not think safety is in our suggested course (for we must try to persuade
you here, too, just as you have kicked the use of justice away from us and urge us to obey your
interests, that we explain what is to our advantage, if by chance it happens to be the same for
you)? For how will you not make enemies of the many states today that are allied to neither side,
when by observing your actions, they will believe that someday you will come against them?
And in this way what else are you doing than making bigger the existing enemies you already
have, and acquiring new enemies against their will who do not intend to be your opponents?

99 Athenians: No, for we do not consider the many who inhabit the mainland as being as
dangerous as the islanders. Mainland states, being free, will postpone a defense against us which
is in truth great. But the islanders, being unrestrained, just like you, are more dangerous, and
also those already stirred up by the force of our rule. For it is these (islanders and subjects) who
will most of all turn to illogic and drag themselves and us into foreseen danger.

100 Melians: Surely then, if you are taking such a huge risk not to lose your empire and
those being enslaved are taking such a huge risk to end it, indeed it would be greatly evil and
cowardly for us who are free not to try everything before being enslaved.

101 Athenians: No, no, not if you consider it wisely. For our contest is not about honor, so
as not to bring shame upon oneself, but the issue rather is that you save yourselves by not
resisting those who are stronger by far.

102 Melians: But we understand that the affairs of war sometimes result without correlation
to the number on troops on each side. And for us to give up at once is to yield with no hope, but
with this effort, there is still some hope of standing correctly.

1
The Greek is overly complex: “No, for not so much does your hatred harm us as much as your love weakens us,
but the hatred is proof of power to those being rules.”

3
103 Athenians: Such hope is indeed a consolation in danger to those relying upon her from a
position of strength. Even if she knows, she does not destroy. But for those who cast dice for all
their possessions (and by nature hope is extravagant) even when misfortune is recognized, hope
leaves nothing with which one might still guard oneself once she is known. But as you are weak,
do not be willing to risk yourselves to the same hazards as the commoners, for whom it is
possible to be saved by human means, but when visible hopes fail them in their moment of need,
they go to the unseeing fortune tellers, oracles, and such things that cause their ruin with hopes.

104 Melians: Be well aware we consider it difficult to contend against both your power and
fortune, unless we do so on equal terms. But nevertheless we trust in the gods that we will not
have the worse of it since we are justly standing against those who are unjust, and although we
may be deficient in power, the alliance of the Lacedaemonians will be also attach to us, and they
will be forced, even if not from anything else, from our close kinship and from a sense of shame,
to help us. And we are in this way courageous - not all together foolishly - as you may suppose.

105 Athenians: Well, regarding goodwill of the divine we no think not we shall be inferior.
For we demand or do nothing outside of mortal opinions for the divine or of human will
conceiving themselves. For we know in the case of the gods and of men that as a matter of reality
wherever there is power to be had someone always rules.2 And we neither set down this rule nor
are we the first to use it in common, but we took it up as it was, as it is for all time, and without
changing it, we use it, knowing that if others or you had the same power, you would use it the
same way. And regarding divine favor in this way we are not afraid we will be inferior in all
probability. But regarding the actions of the Lacedaemonians, you sure rely a lot upon shame
(for we doubt they will help you), so we congratulate your naïveté, but we do not envy your
foolishness. For the Lacedaemonians, use excellence in most of their indigenous laws toward
themselves. But regarding other peoples, anyone knowing much about them can say briefly that
they consider what pleases them to be good and what is expedient to be just most conspicuously
of all those we know. And certainly this opinion is not favorable to your present illogical hope of
salvation.

106 Melians: But we, on this very same matter especially trust that it will be expedient for
them not to be willing to betray us Melians who are their colonists.

107 Athenians: And do you not think expediency goes with safety, while justice and nobility
are practiced with danger – a thing which the Lacedaemonians dare least of all things to risk?

108 Melians: As a matter of fact we believe on our account that they will take on the risks
and consider it more firm than others. In this way we lie near the lands of the Peloponnese, and
we are more trustworthy than others by our closeness of mind.

2
This idea is someone always takes over and does not share power evenly once they are in charge.

4
109 Athenians: But to those about to contend, clearly the goodwill which inspires one power
(i.e. you) to rely on them (the Lacedaemonians) is not trustworthy. Instead the thing that
someone might consider indeed is power more than any other thing. At any rate, distrusting their
native resources, they bring many allies when they attack their neighbors. Furthermore, it is
unlikely they will cross over to the island when we control the seas.

110 Melians: But they might send others, and the Cretan sea is wide, because of this keeping
control of the seas is more difficult by the strong than is the secure crossing for those wishing to
slip past. And if they would fail in this, they still might invade your lands and those of your
allies, which Brasidias did not raid, and the work will not be for the preservation of your alliance
rather than for your own safety and your own land.

111 Athenians: Some of these things might even happen to us. We are not unfamiliar with
such experiences. And you must know that we Athenians have never withdrawn from a single
siege because of fear of others. And we understand that you said you would take counsel
regarding your salvation, but in this discussion you have said nothing which we would not expect
to hear from people who think they will be saved, but your strongest grounds are mere hopes,
while your resources are small against those already arranged against you. And you display a
great lack of reason in your minds if after we withdraw you do not realize you need to pursue a
wiser course to survive. For indeed, don’t turn to a false sense of honor in the face of a
foreseeable danger which is most destructive to men. For the so-called sense of dishonor leads
many men - who still could foresee into what dangers they are carried - to be weakened by the
power of a seductive label, to be beaten by speech in falling willingly in fact into an
inconceivable disaster. This dishonor is all the more shameful when incurred because of folly
rather than fate which you, if you plan well, will guard against and you will not consider it
unbecoming to be weaker than the greatest city which is offering you moderate terms: to
become allies, keeping your own land, and paying tribute, whereas if a choice is given regarding
war or safety, you should not strive for victory - the worse cause. Those who do not yield to
their equals, but conduct themselves well to the stronger, and are moderate to their inferiors most
often succeed. And so examine this thoroughly as we have explained it and consider over and
over the fact that you are deciding about your city’s fate, whether it will survive on the basis of
this one thing and this single decision.

112 And the Athenians withdrew from the conference, while the Melians discussed among
themselves and decided upon pretty much the same course as what they had said before. The
Melians responded like this. “No other thing is decided than that which was before, Oh
Athenians, and nor in a short time will we rob freedom from our city governed for 700 years, but
trusting in the fortune of the gods, which preserved it up until now and by the honor of
Lacedaemonians we will be saved. But we call to you to let us be friends - enemies to neither -
and that you withdraw from our land making treaties which seem to be suitable to both of us.

5
113 And this is how the Melians answered. But the Athenians, as they were already leaving
from the conference said, “and you alone the as it seems to us, are a people who judge things yet
to come to be more certain than the reality before your eyes, and the unseen things you consider
as happening already because you wish it so, and trusting the Lacedaemonians and chance and
hope. Indeed the things you count on most will betray you the most.

114 And the Athenians ambassadors returned to their camp. And the soldiers, since the
Medians did not at all submit, immediately turned to war and distributing the work among the
allied cities, they encircled the Melians with a wall. And later leaving behind a garrison and
patrol of the land and sea of their own men and of the allies, the Athenians went home with most
of their army. And those left on Melos continue to stay and siege the place.

115 And at the same time the Argives, invading Phileiasia, fell into an ambush set by the
Phlieasians and the Argive exiles. They lost 80 men. Also the Athenians from Pylos seized
much booty of the Lacedaemonians. And the Lacedaemonians still did not renounce the treaty
and make war with them, but sent heralds around saying if anyone wishes to, they could attack
the Athenians. And the Corinthians made war on account of some private differences with the
Athenians, but the other Peloponnesians remained quiet. And the Malians even attacked at night
the Athenian siege wall along the agora, and they both killed men and brought in grain and as
much of the most useful necessities as they could. Then pulling back, they remained quiet. And
the Athenians set up a better guard after that. And summer ended.

116 The following winter the Lacedaemonians, intending to campaign in the Argolis, but their
sacrifices did not portend favorably, so they returned home. And the Argives, because of the
Lacedaemonians’ plans, seized some suspicious people in the city, but others fled. And the
Melians, in the same time again, took another part of the Athenian siege wall, since not many
guards were there. And later, because of this, after another army came from Athens under
Philocrates, son of Demeos, the Athenians besieging the Melians with energy. Some treachery
took place from within the Melians, and they surrendered to the Athenians conceding that they
may deal with them as they wished. But the Athenians killed all of the adult males Melians
whom they took and reduced to slavery the women and children. And later they themselves
settled the place sending 500 colonists.