OPR #09029Best Holstine: This is Sgt.

Paul Holstine of the Bullhead City Police Department, Office of Professional Responsibility and present with me is Sgt. Glenn Best. And I understand Glenn is spelled with two AN=s@ since I got it wrong on the notice. And we are at the Office of Professional Responsibility it is October 15, 2009 at 9:19 A.M. and we=re here to interview on OPR #09029. Uh...Glenn have you taken time to review the notice including the uh... allegation and also the rules of the game? Okay and do you understand you specific rights and responsibilities in this investigation? And do you have any questions about your specific rights in this investigation? sir. Okay then sign here to acknowledge and we=ll get going with this. Just before we start I=m going to kind of lay down a little bit of uh... foundation. Because you and I have spoke before and there=s a lot of... there are a lot of things that uh... obviously have transpired to lead us up to this point. But as I mentioned before we got on tape. You and I spoke about this I want to say a week and a half ago approximately. And I was trying to hurry you through giving me a summary of all that all the information that I would now like to slow down and get in a highly detailed fashion. And as I understand it and correct me if I=m wrong. It=s been the...the marital woes if you will of the...of Marion and Tammy Morgan had uh...presented themselves in some manner in the work place. Going back I=m guessing several months. And at some point uh..you became aware of this and were uh...doing some of your best doing...as a supervisor you were addressing some of these issues is that correct? Okay so you had more than one conversation with Tammy Morgan related to this? Yeah I say direct contact with Tammy involving the alleged affair in such I had uh...couple conversation with Marion Morgan. Okay. And I...we=ve touched on those like I said the other day we were in your office and I was trying to get you to give me the quick notes version. I was hurried and we were interrupted and I did not take notes. And uh...so now what I want to do is...is completely find everything there is as far as what information you can provide for the record. Um...basically you saw the allegations in the notice. Some of these allegations to my knowledge uh...at this point don=t really uh...wouldn=t involve you or you might not have any knowledge about some of these 1

Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: No Holstine:

Best Yes. Holstine Best Holstine:

Best: Holstine:

Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: That Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best:

allegations. I was aware of the first line or two but after that uh..uh..that stuff had never been brought to my attention. Okay. So let me go through them here. It was my understanding from our like I said from our brief conversation that most of what you have information about would be the...your asking Marion Morgan about whether or not his relationship with Lori Battey would have gotten him some sort of special treatment from Lori as a dispatcher? Is that..does that cover pretty much the line shared of what your knowledge pertains to? That what I got involved in and...just to set the foundation it was because we had just had shift change and Marion came to my shift. And I hadn=t had him on the previous one. And I notice that within about two or three weeks of him being on my shift, he uh...he seemed rather withdrawn. Um..hmm He was not the same individual that I recognized I had a year ago on my shift and he=s a great guy. I like him. And he was...he go out and he=d work and everything like that and when I came...when he came back to me here this summer he seemed like a different fellow. And he seemed very quiet. We=d have our briefing and he wouldn=t talk , he seemed kind of withdrawn and I noticed that he didn=t really uh...get involved in the activities of the squad during the day. And that=s when Cpl. Otero made a complaint to me saying uh...basically Morgan=s not doing anything. He=s not doing any work and some of the other guys that are on the squad have been grubbing saying that Marion seems to be taking the easy route and you know skirting away from taking calls and being involved with the other officers. And that=s when I concurred with him saying yeah I=ve notice that. And when Al told me the other side of that saying now he=s having some martial problems and he=s possibly you know dating this uh... one dispatcher. And is that Lori Battey? To your knowledge? =s what he uh... That=s what Al said? Al told me. Okay. So how did things progress from there? Well you know I...I recognized that he had not done a lot of work. I pulled up his call activity in Cody. And you could see you know the other officers that were on the squad you could see where you pull up their activities they were doing normal amounts, and it seemed though Marion wasn=t pulling a lot of things. He was more like second officer on scene, or / and hadn=t done a report, and when he does reports they seemed to be seemed like he wasn=t proof reading his stuff. Seemed like you know 2

Holstine: Best: Yes.

Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Yes Holstine: Best: W

when he was writing his things he would kind of ramble in his reports and it didn=t seem like it was proof read or he wasn=t concentrating and stuff when I was looking at his reports. Now compared to his prior performance you were aware of a difference? That=s what I knew. We all have a certain feel for your squad you know how they are. And I notice when he came to me in the summer he was a different guy. It just seemed like he was not concentrating on his work. I think that I have a Cody...a printout of some information from Cody that is a...a list of flagged reports... ...and I kind of list of your reviews. And they all come back to Marion ? Is that does that pertain to that issue you talked about? sir. The performance or lack there of? ell that=s kind of jumping ahead some. But yes I had asked uh...I noticed that a lot of his reports seemed like they..sometimes I look at them they seemed nonsensical. It wasn=t following an order of events, it just didn=t look like he was proof reading it and stuff. Okay. So...when I had ask uh...Wincentsen you know Wincentsen I ask him two different things. I said one I heard that maybe Lori Battey garnering some special preferential treatment to Marion Morgan do you know of that? Could that be happening? Could you monitor that for me? I=ll take care of Marion he=s my employee. Um..hmm And then I had also ask him you know in Cody I had flagged these particular reports yet when they go back in they get corrected and stuff they=re just more difficult for me to find. Would you be able to do some kind of Cody search for anything that I had flagged of his and then that=s it right there. Anything that I had flagged the log number, the date, the time of the call, and then any kind of comments that may of put on in the incident review. Okay and you just pointed to this document I have in front of me and said, Athat=s it right there.@ Is this the report that Barry generated for you? Yes and I had ask Barry to do it. At the time that I ask him he said that he couldn=t do it right at that very moment. But to give him a little while and then this came to me about a week after I written the memo to uh...(not audible) All right and you told me a little bit I had jumped ahead just a bit. So I want uh..get this established and then let you continue on because I think I threw maybe your chronology off a little bit. Um... I=m going to label this 3

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine:

Best: Flagged Holstine:

Best: Yes. Holstine: Best:

document uh...flagged...flagged...flagged reports? ....history. (sound of writing) report. So if I have to talk to anybody else ab out it. It will have a name and it=s two pages. ( sound of page turning) Shows your comments the things that you ask...you ask Marion to correct or direct him to address. Um...that what sergeant fill out when they flag a report and uh...send it back to the officer for corrects or additions, etc. And so now that I interrupted your flow please go on. Well after I had spoken to Al about that sat down with Marion and he had just cleared a call just on Central Ave. and I went there with the deliberate intention of meeting with him. He was pulling away and I ask him to hook up with me and we talked for a little bit about his performance and stuff because I pushed him before casually you know let=s make some traffic stops, go and help out some of the other guys. And this was kind of like to re-affirm...you know what I had already told him about. And I ask him I said, did you know forty-five in the field. Some of the guys are kind of complaining about your activity levels can you explain, what=s going on about it? And then he basically re-affirmed what Al Otero had said the (not audible) that he had some marriage problems with his wife. He=s got a lot of stress. He not thinking about work so much. He knew that uh...I ask him to do stuff like write tickets or hook up with the guys, fill out witness statements or collect witness statements. He said he was working towards those things. He became more and more depressed about his possible, pending divorce or something like that. Serving her documents and he thought about you know addition child support that he would have to pay because he had a previous marriage or something like that. He=s got two mortgages. He got a house in Kingman, he=s got a house here in Bullhead. He thought all these things are crumbling down here around him, and he just became immersed in what=s going on. And that=s why he had been doing much. And I said, okay now that you=ve told me about it. You know I understand how you become depressed. And he basically agreed with all those things. He said yeah okay I=ll start trying to bring myself around and talk more about and do more things in the work place. So then the second part of my question to him is this. It=s not my business but I=ve heard that maybe you=re having some kind of relationship with one of our dispatchers and everything like that. Yes or no? But the reason why I ask you this is because there is a suspicion that because she=s our day shift dispatcher. She=s on the radio four to six hours everyday. That maybe you=re getting some preferential treatment about the uh...you know what kind of calls you=re getting and such. And that=s what the guys are thinking and maybe you know can you tell me 4

Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Dispatcher Holstine:

everything like that. He looked at me and said no that=s untrue. I=m not having a relationship with her and I=m hacking my calls and doing everything. You know whenever dispatch calls me I answer. And that=s true he does. Every time they have called they never have to scramble around to find him. I said okay, that=s...that=s fine. Let=s...let=s those are some things there=s counseling effort that are available and he said nah...counseling was horrible. That didn=t work for him. Okay going back to the conversation....we=re talking about a casual conversation two squad cars pulled up to each other. ...in the field after a call ten forty-five...? Yeah....we were down on uh...Central Ave. Um...and just to...to pick apart what you just told me. Did you ever ask him directly if he was during that conversation. Was there ever a direct question to him whether he was involved with Lori Battey? Okay. You named her? Because when you talked about her a minute ago you referred to her as a dispatcher. yeah. Okay. So he denied in affect during that conversation having any sort of uh....romantic involvement with Lori Battey? Is that accurate?

Best: No. Holstine: Tell me what is accurate. Best: W ell one... (spoken simultaneously) Holstine: Or he denied having he denied benefitting from it. Best: Well what I did was...when I...when I posed the question. I think it was a two part question. There was a pause in-between and then I continued talking and then I said you know if this is happening it=s because some of the guys think that you may be getting preferential treatment you know because you may be having this relationship with this dispatcher. Is that what=s going on? And so I think it was poorly constructed type of question. I ask him you look at it as you know a direct question. Are you having a relationship with this girl, yes or no? Or if you are having it is there uh...is are you getting any kind of special treatment or show favoritism because it....I framed it as one question yeah, one response. And that was no that=s not happening. Holstine: Okay and what was that one question again? Best: The one question was if you are having a relationship with this girl are you getting any kind of special favoritism because of that? He said no that=s not happening. That=s what I remember of that conversation. 5

Holstine:

Best: Yes Holstine: Best:

Holstine: (Pause) Best: No. Holstine: Best:

So correct me if I=m wrong here based on the question being phrased in that manner. It wasn=t really clear rather he was flatly denying any relationship or if he was denying getting any benefit from it, being in a relationship. You allow him some wiggle room. sir. Okay. I think what I did it was and maybe possibly my fault. I did not ask him a direct question. Because I did not feel comfortable asking him about are you having some kind of relationship with this girl. Don=t care about it but the work issue. Is this coming as a you know you can get some kind of favorable treatment and I think that maybe wording the question in such away allowed him to have that wiggle room to answer it. And no I=m not doing that kind of stuff. I=m doing my job. Okay at any point during that conversation was there before that or after that any sort of flat denial about the relationship itself? Okay. Cause we talked about you know after I posed that question and I was talking to him about counseling afterwards that could be available. The city had a counseling benefit that you can go and see you know. Counselor with the city at no cost. And then he went off on hey I=ve already been to counseling that was horrible, that was a really bad thing because we both went to it. And we spent our hours in counseling and my wife was beating me over the head with every single thing bad that I had done in the marriage. Um..hmm I didn=t even get to have my say so....I was giving him that option to know here=s a counseling therefore, you should maybe look into. That=s when he went into his part about what happen with his previous counseling. Okay. Now this...this memo that I have that you wrote to Lt. Jerry Duke Dated June twenty-seventh um...there=s...this memo also addresses the same subject. Does it address the same conversation about the subject or were there more than one.? Well there was a second interview at the station. Okay. All right and before we get there is there any other or....before I interrupt your flow to much again um...I just wanted to clarify that. So... Well we had this conversation in the field that forty-five on Central Ave. Um..hmm I concluded it with that about the counseling and such. After that week there was a some schedule changes uh... 6

Holstine: Best: And

(Long pause) Holstine:` Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Al Holstine: Best:

Um..hmm And we had some shortage on graveyard shift for a supervisor. And I=ve been taken off my day shift and put on graveyard shift for a week. And Al Otero had remain on day shift as the supervisor. He had already been flopped three times. We swapped and uh... basically then I had to go a take the next time as being a graveyard supervisor. Who had been swapped and (not audible) I=m sorry Okay. There was a lot of times when there was no supervisor on graveyard shift so they took Al and I think this was his third time he had already spent a week on graveyards. When he had been on day shift. He didn=t want to do it a fourth time and then I=m the one who got pulled and put on graveyard shift. So I went on graveyard shift. And I think at the conclusion of that work week Al called me at home on our days off and uh...and then told me about apparently my little coaching in the field I heard about doing good at work and concentrating and making sure we do our job here. And stuff was apparently a negative impact. How so? Well, Al talked about when Marion returned to work apparently he was withdrawn and made some uh...grubbing statements not directly to any individual but said, statements like you know you guys are a bunch of back stabbers um...you know cry babies, I=ve never worked with a bunch of idiots like this before you know this squads all shit. I can=t wait to get out of here things like that. Those are the statement that may have taken place in the report writing and or some thing like that. Um..hmm that=s what Al said, this is what happen while you were on graveyard shift. You maybe want to take another look this. So you think it possible that, that was a...that was push back or that was fallout from this conversation this...ten forty-five in the field conversation. Cause what I done you know in the field. I=ve given him a PPR at the end of that day. You know Personal Progress Report. And that PPR that I had given him during this contemporaneous about our conversation about what happen. I kept it very generic. Saying you know that there=s some problems we=re having about the performance issues, and we had some goals that were set. About going out there and doing more work traffic stops and maybe prisoner transports um... So that talk and the PPR seem to...seem to uh...maybe be the... Blew up on me... Do what? I think it maybe blew up on me. Okay. 7

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: And Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine:

Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best:

But I used I look at it as a you know this a goal you know not like you towards him doing these things and such...and uh....he signed it and he was a little upset when he signed it. Because I...this was maybe some negative impact on his on his career. I didn=t look at it like that I thought it was a coaching type of thing and you know I do have some pressure on me from the lieutenant to document this type things and uh..that=s why you know I thought a conversation like this friendly out there in the field followed up with some written documents would be beneficial. So that=s why I wrote it. Sounds like the thing to do. Um...okay what happen after that? When I returned to work and uh....Al had that conversation with me at home and I returned to work and I think All wanted to uh...tell me saying hey, when you come back I think you=re going to be stepping into some issues. And this is what=s transpired over the last week. You know the comments of uh...you know you=re a cry baby, we=re going to complain on you, you snitch us out so I=m going to show you. I=m going to write you up for every dirty little trick that you do. And Al had portrayed were it became hostile. Where the officers were almost going to step outside and do something. Were there any spec...spec...specific incidents, any confrontations? Not that I know of. But I thought there was something had transpired where they initiated a conversation during the report writing and then took it outside in the parking lot. This is what Al had told me I was not there. I was not at the station at this time but words had been spoken between Officer Teague and Officer Morgan. Right Who the snitch was and stuff. And so that=s when I had a second um...interview you know with the squad bringing each squad member into the office talking with them, seeing how their relationship was and what working relationship with Officer Morgan was and then concluding the uh...the interview with Officer Morgan. Okay. And then they all....and so...you had a second interview with Morgan too? Yes. On the date of that memorandum is when I had the second interview with him. Okay. Just...uh...tell me about that interview. Well we started with each squad member. Officer Mooney, Officer Ersland, Officer Teague and uh... Did any of them bring up any of this confrontations during that interview? Officer Teague spoke a little bit about it. But it was...it wasn=t coming completely out and saying there was hostilities or anything like that. He said yeah he heard about some things about snitch, back stabber, cry babies things like that. Uh...Mooney...Mooney told me says you know I 8

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best:

get along with everyone and I like working with this squad we=re doing good and all that kind of stuff. I heard some shit but he says but dismiss it. He says that=s just nonsense I don=t worry about those things. Officer Ersland uh...made comments that you know he didn=t know why the uh...Officer Morgan had pulled away like he did. He did hear Morgan make statements like you=re a bunch of cry babies, back stabbers and he said that he had even tried to go out to breakfast with Morgan at the Castle restaurant in old Bullhead. As was there habit. Um..hmm And got flatly rejected. And said nah, I don=t want to hang out with any of you cry babies or anything like that. Ersland took that kind of tough. Cause he thought they were friends. And that what Ersland was telling me as far as work you know was everyone doing there same amount of work. Everyone said yeah looks like everyone=s doing okay. There was maybe like a bunker type of mentality saying yeah we=re all doing what we need to do. Morgan too. But yes we have spoken about cry babies things like that. So...how....getting on to the Morgan interview. Tell me about the Morgan interview. Well I talked with him about it and...and uh... Was anyone else present when you spoke with him? Yes. Cpl. Otero. Okay. He was in the room. And uh... we talked a bout you know this....the relationship and everything like that he may be having with this dispatcher. Um....the words that were spoken to squad mates and things like that and he generalized the conversation and he said. I thought that was all rectified a week ago when you were on graveyard shift? And that I made amends with the guys yeah I said that made amends and I apologized to the guys. That was done about a week ago and we moved on. I said well I=m the one who just came back to day shift and I was told about it on my days off so now I have to address it. Just want to move from there. Move from where? I went from did this things happen were you saying these things to the guys and such. And was this relationship that you=re having with this dispatcher, your productivity is still down. Um...I flagged a bunch of your reports. Yet you took off and went to a school in Nevada on shooting. Guns training thing. You didn=t address any of your flagged reports. What=s going on I=m mean this is the second time that we=re dealing with it. And you know I was telling him about flagged reports and how these things just weren=t making sense. And a you know we got in about this girl is it because you=re getting preferential treatment. About this 9

Holstine:

Best:

It

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best:

relationship you on tape hacking calls. And he looked at me and said no. No I=m not having that. And...because I=d also given him a second PPR so he got really upset with me cause it=s a write up. I said no this is not a write up it=s a coaching type of thing. I want you to concentrate on working and you know doing your job and here. You know this stays good. You know you=re having a horrible relationship at home with an impending divorce. You got to keep this thing here at work going. Okay again back to the specifics of...of the question. And what I=m talking about again in this in this conversation you had with him. This second conversation that pertained to his possible relationship with Lori and or whether he was getting beneficial treatment, favoritism in fact. What was the specifics of that conversation? How did that pan out? Okay your memo indicates...well you...you tell me. Did he flatly deny relationship or just flatly deny the benefits of the se possible relationship?...or was it ambiguous? wasn=t ambiguous. I was asking him the question you were having the relationship with this dispatcher. He did not respond. He just looked at me. And there was an uncomfortable moment or two.... What that was an uncomfortable silence? Yes and then I ask him the same is there because you=re having these relationship with this dispatcher are you getting this preferential treatment by not taking these calls? And he kind of turned the tape and he said the PPR that I had given him, why did I do that and why is that a write up. You know... He changed the subject? Yes. I think there was a combination of you know the uncomfortable pause and the non verbal answer. Then I told him I said because this is my suspicion this is my foundation of why I believe this and he just kind of...he look at me for the first time directly and he was talking with me and says is this because of the PPR write up that you gave me? Is this you know why would you do that to me. This is personal integrity about my work. You know that I can do my work and everything like that. And he didn=t respond to my question. He ask me a question. Did you ever go back to the Lori Battey relationship subject or did you move on? We moved from that one because the way that he was sitting in his chair he sat basically in the center between Al and I and uh...this time he was when we got to this part of the conversation he was rocking back and forth in his chair spinning. He had been looking at the tile floor in the office. He had been looking you know towards where all the mailboxes are. And uh...every time that he actually really wanted to respond to me is when I...he brought up the conversation about the PPR. And I look at that and I=m going that=s when I thought that there were the absence of an answer and the way that he was moving twitching and doing that kind of stuff 10

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best:

inside of his chair. And then redirecting the question back to me. That=s when I thought yeah there=s something going on here. Well based on your experience and training what did...what did you think was going on? Well I believe that he was lying to me. That=s...that=s when I felt I=m going oh...okay. We=ve come to...does he want to answer this question in two ways. One there=s the moral issue. Am I having an affair in my marriage that kind of stuff. That=s an uncomfortable question for anyone to go and answer and stuff. Does he even have a reason to tell me? Because it=s personal. But I tried to give him that foundation it=s because you=re having an affair with this girl is it affecting your work? Right. That makes it my business. Exactly. And...and if in fact he were receiving preferential treatment you know getting the easy calls whatever from Lori Battey as well as having a romantic affair with her uh....would that not be your business? Yeah, yeah. Even without the romantic affair would that not be your business? Yeah. I mean you...it was my business because I had my suspicion about what was going on. You could pull up you can do the simple thing yourself. You can pull up activities from day to day to day through out week and you look at one guy and you look at the other officers and it not just you in t he in the beat not doing anything. He=s number two, he=s number three guy at the scene. Is he...is he shushing off the calls in his own beat he=s...he=s handling his... When dispatch calls for him he answers and he does those calls. But the self initiated every day, the actual patrols, the traffic stops, the normal things that the you know the officer would have though out his day you know those weren=t happening. My...that=s what I felt and those I had my suspicion I looked at Cody, Cpl. Otero had his suspicion about it and that that=s how we talked about it. Now, did you take any measures to try and figure out if there was truly a link between his performance or lack of activity if you will and Lori Battey=s role as a the person that hands out calls? Well what I did do was we concluded our interview. Um...hmm. And I given Officer Morgan a second Personal Progress Report specifically in nature about our conversation we had in the office about the fighting, about the squabbling you know back stabber and everything else like that. It was more. It wasn=t the generic one that I=d given him you 11

Holstine:

(Long pause) Holstine:

know weeks prior to this one. It was one that was specific to the issue than the one that he got upset about. And he signed it and everything and left. And within about five minutes uh... Lt. Duke enter the office and ask me simply how it go? And Cpl. Otero he had left the office when on a potty break or whatever. And that=s when I told Jerry I said, I think there was a meeting a part in our interview where he was being less than truthful with me. About this relationship and getting the preferential treatment. Because I told him this was the only time that he looked at me. And then when he was getting my question you know that=s when he starts spinning in the chair and he wouldn=t answer my question. And then ask me a question about his PPR. And I said Jerry you know that to me I thought he was lying. Al Otero comes back in from his potty break and everything like that and he=s more emotional about it. I believe he=s fucking lying so...Al had not heard what I told Lt. Duke. Well then Al comes in a moment later and looks at Jerry and says he=s lying. And I said, okay. And then Lt. Duke says Glenn write it down. Write me a memo. So I sat there in my office and I wrote him a memo. This is the June 27th memo? I=m going to go through this memo real quick. Cause I think we pretty much (pause) covered most if not all of this. The material in this memo. And I=m going to read through this so there will be an uncomfortable silence. Okay now as I=m reading this memo I want to clarify something...as I=m reading this memo and I get to paragraph of this memo it looks like in paragraph four your describing the beginning of the what I=m calling the field meeting the ten forty-five, two cars pulled up to one another the first time you brought this subject up with Marion. And then it looks like in paragraph five you=re talking about the...the more of the same interview? Let me take a look so I can refresh my memory. The second half of the interview surrounded the possibility of an extra marital affair. Yes that was paragraph four, and paragraph five both speak of the same interview. Okay. In...out there on Central Ave. Cause uh...in the uh...towards the end of paragraph five it indicates that you...you posed this question to him. The...the combination question of the affair, and its...him possibly getting preferential treatment from the dispatcher. And it says, he flatly deny any relationship between him and the dispatcher. That=s accurate? He admitted they did have lunch and they had visited but nothing else further. So is he trying to tell you that there was a relationship that uh...was just platonic? 12

Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine:

Best: Yes. Holstine:

Best:

That

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine:

Best: Yes. Holstine: Best:

=s what (spoken slowly and drawn out) I was getting into and then at this time in my mind set talking to him about the counseling. Um..hmm that=s when he came back and it seemed like it struck a cord with him because he said I been counseling it wasn=t beneficial all I did was I spent my hour sitting there in counseling with my wife beating me over the head about every negative thing I=ve ever done. Right. And he said he doesn=t want to go that route. And I said okay I can understand that but, maybe this is something just for you. Instead of you going with your partner maybe you can go by yourself. And uh...you know set things right in your own head. Okay. I going to probably continue reading through this memo for any questions. Now before I was under the impression that uh...uh..a few minutes ago during this first interview. That the first interview allowed him and this is my metaphor. Allowed him wiggle room on the whole relationship question. He flatly deny any relationship with the dispatcher that doesn=t sound like wiggle room. That sounds like you posed him a more pointed question straighten me out on how this was. I ask him that question are you having this affair with this dispatcher? Because I think that maybe you=re getting you=re getting preferential treatment from the dispatchers on the calls. So it was two questions in one sentence. Right. And I got one response. And that response was? No. So you get no to two questions in affect? Okay that would be fair. Okay. All right let me continue here. Now at that time did you have any...did you have any. First of all at that time did you have any reason to believe that an affair between him an the dispatcher was necessarily you business? Did you have any evidence that was inferred to you that they were having such an affair? Okay. As far as this stepping outside into the parking lot between Teague and Marion Morgan to resolve issues in paragraph ten. Um...it indicated in 13

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: No. Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: (Short pause) Holstine: Best: No. Holstine: Best: No. Holstine: (Pause) Holstine:

general a lack of detail. Did you probe Teague to find out what happen during this confrontation? Best: I did ask him and uh...I think he was...he wasn=t really wanting to give a lot of details about it. I think it was more between two officers saying man hey go do your job. Type of thing and that=s what the sense that I have from him. How we characterized this you know Ado your job@ I don=t want to take over your calls. Well you may be butt hurt about your marriage but I got shit to do too. That=s the sense that I was getting from Teague and you know um...this had taken place while I was on graveyard shift, I did not know directly what had transpired. This is when Al was running the day shift. Holstine: Um..hmm Best: I didn=t feel really comfortable asking direct questions is this what really happened? I was kind of looking at Al to ask these questions he was in the room you know what happen between you guys while you were in the report writing room. Did you go outside did you talk? Did you have you know some kind of coarse language between the two of you? Al didn=t ask those questions. Holstine: Okay. Best: That =s why I was kind of using but Al had told me as a fishing type of thing is can you get me a better answer. Holstine: Okay. I=m going to continue on reading here. Best: Can I get a drink of water? Holstine: Yeah. Best: W here=s a... Holstine: All the way to the other end of the conference room. Best: Is there cups. Holstine: Yeah. There=s uh...I think I might (not audible) myself. Best: Give me two...and I=ll bring... Holstine: No I already got one. (Door opening and closing) Holstine: And it is 1007 tape still running. All the way over in the (Long pause) Holstine: Okay so we still got tape running in here. Unless you need a break? Best: No I=m good. I just wanted to... Holstine: So I=m looking through this uh...memo dated June 27th from you to uh...Lt. Duke. And we have covered a great deal of what=s in here. (Long pause) (Sound of pages turning) (Long pause) Holstine: Now as I read through paragraph sixteen go ahead I want to clarify something in my mind. At least so I=ll have something straight. Best: Okay. 14

Holstine:

Best: Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Yeah. Holstine: Best: That Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine:

Now that paragraph the way it reads and cause of the chronologically of you know you calling all the officers into the squad. Is that the conversation where you addressed the Battey relationship issue to use with Morgan the second time. Yes sir, this took place in my office. Okay. And this was with officer...Cpl. Otero as a witness? Uh... This took place prior to uh...to our forty-five that we had out in the field. Prior to? We talked about you know that I had met with him there on Central Ave. Weeks later... Weeks later? Weeks after your initial forty-five with him and a PPR entry? same day. Then weeks later it round number two in affect. Yes on June 27th. As far as you addressing the Battey relationship with him. Now I see in this paragraph you describe uh...some of the things that...that also rang true with what you told me earlier about the uh...deceptive behavior is what it sounds like to me. Um...is it this is the point and time where you addressed the Battey issue the second time with him and he correct me if I=m wrong. He didn=t deny the relationship at that point but he did redirect the conversation. He did fail to give an answer and redirected the conversation to something else? Yes sir. I had ask him. My language was more specific. Are you having this affair with this dispatcher. And because so you=re having preferential treatment. He didn=t respond to that question and there was a pause delay and then for the first time he looked back at me and then ask me the question about the PPR the right up the negative connotation in his personnel file about all of this. Um..hmm. that=s when he was squirming in his chair. Because the previous part of our interview he spent time looking at the tile floor, looking at the mailboxes. In the office and such and this was the first time he looked at me when he was asking the question. When he took control of the situation? he didn=t take control of the conversation. He posed a question. He wouldn=t respond to my question that I ask. He posed the question he said you know why is this a negative connotation and I said, the PPR is a...is a coaching mechanism. I said buddy if you were a write up you would of know about it. You know that=s a whole different kind of form 15

Best:

Holstine: Best: And

Holstine: Best: No

Holstine: Best: Holstine:

Best: I Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Every Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine:

Best: I Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Holstine: (Long pause) Holstine:

it takes a whole different manifest. I said... So you=re telling him if I would of written you up you would of know it because it would be uh...complaint form. Yes sir. It a difference it would be a real...this is a PPR this is what I want you to do... Was he aware of the...the procedures of the whole PPR system as a as it applies to the...the uh...performance evaluation? Was he aware of how that process of which things get condense. And people get a to correct their...their uh...deficiency? don=t know sir. Okay. I know that at that time um...Lt. Sessions and Lt. Appleby at that time um...it might of been even Cpt. Appleby but we did PPR=s on every employee. Um..hmm single month. Right. And most of the time those PPR=s are you did a good job. You know you handled this call... Right. Or they do something exceptional but they=re really kind of general in nature. This PPR was you know more specific in nature as I said. Well I guess my question should of been do you think in general down in patrol that the guys are aware that just because something has a PPR entry doesn=t mean it necessarily going to end up uh...being a negative entry on a permanent record? don=t know. You don=t know huh? I think Marion should know this. He=s been around the block enough to know that a PPR what it is...it=s a document it=s there it=s written in black and white you know...what someone does with it there after is you know that=s an administrative tool. Um...hmm...Okay let=s But he should know. All right. Um...we=re getting off track here a little bit. I=m going to...I=m just going to go through the last few paragraphs of this memo and make sure I don=t have any other questions about it. Ah...in paragraph seventeen it says I explained to Officer Morgan the complaint / information that I had received that required my attention. I research the issue and found that it had merit. Which issue are you talking about were you...you research the issue and found it had merit? Was this the confrontation between him and Teague or the uh...Battey thing. 16

Best: Holstine:

Best:

Holstine: Best: You Holstine: Best:

Holstine:

Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Holstine:

Yes. It was the confrontation that he had with Officer Teague. Um...that=s why Cpl. Otero called me at my home. Told me about what had transpired while I was gone on graveyard shift. Um...Barr....I talked to Barry Wincentsen um...because as you know I=ve been trying to uh...since this came forth in the form of a complaint. I=ve been trying to back track and literally collect all of the documents to find out what=s already been done to address this thing that=s...that=s really started out as peoples personal issues and now its has grown but one of the things that I discovered in my queries was in addition to Barry generating that report to you about all your flags on Marion. He said that based on uh...based on this theory that Marion had received preferential treatment from Lori Battey he did some research but did not um....did not document this research in a form of a memo or a report. Um...but he said, there simply was no information to collaborate this theory Lori was passing out the easy calls or given you know given Marion an easy day. Was that ever communicated to you? Well when I talked to Wincentsen about this issue. I talked to him specifically about his dispatcher. Saying I=m not going to go and talk to his dispatcher without Barry knowing about it. I said, this is the suspicion that I have. Would you do me a favor would you look at you know could this be happening between your dispatcher and my officer over your police radio. And Barry told me oh, absolutely they=re having an affair. I knew about that and stuff. Right. didn=t know it Glenn? You fool. Okay did he tell you that he had disproved or collaborated... or... What did he tell you about researching it? Well I ask him I said...I wasn=t asking for any kind of report. I ask for the report about my incident reviews. I ask him to go and monitor the situation between the calls that come out, the calls that are dispatch to the officers and such. Cause I didn=t look at it from a specific angle of what=s on Cody or what it shows... Right...right Your getting off track a little bit here Glenn. Did Barry ever communicate to you what uh...his findings that...that he could not substantiate with this favoritism theory? Did he ever communicate that to you? Okay. He did communicate it to you. Okay thanks. All right. That was over the phone call. He called me back I sent that report to you inter-office mail. And I look into it and I didn=t see any bases. All right. Okay let=s move on to...did you...Um...I got a memo here from Al Otero. Did you ever...did you ever see that memo before? And this pertains to the same stuff that... 17

Best: I Holstine: (Long pause) Holstine: Best: July Holstine: (Long pause) Holstine: Best: There Holstine:

didn=t read it no. Okay. Go ahead and read through that and I=ll uh...just bounce all that off of you. And that=s a memo from Al Otero to Lt. Duke and what is the date on that memo? 2nd of 2009. All right. Now I=m going to read through it and see what pops up. =s no subject. Correct. This is a July 2nd , 2009 memo. To Lt. Duke from Cpl. Al Otero. And this just overlaps basically everything we already discuss. Um...(pause) he has some specitificty issues of dispatch it looks like. Um....and correct me if I=m wrong. But it looks like this might have been some of it. (Not audible) that lead you to believe that there was substance to the Battey / Morgan favoritism relationship. It says here I noticed uh...Officer Morgan had no activity on a certain day... ahead. ...Dispatcher Battey was dispatching for police and some calls had held for over an hour, before being dispatched to officers other than Officer Morgan. So yeah that sounds like uh....to me would prompt a question Officer Morgan about the topic. Um...we=ve got the Morgan comments after your first meeting with him down here in paragraph five. We have the break-up between Ersland and Morgan. And... It was there habit to my understanding they had breakfast together. And then of course this memo ends with him discussing or him documenting the meetings the second rounds of meetings if you will. ...with the entire squad including Morgan so... Okay there=s really nothing in there that we haven=t already covered. I need you to authenticate a couple of documents really quick... It look as if you cut and pasted your PPR into an email and sent it to the lieutenant is that correct? And this is an email dated 6-4-2009 from yourself to the lieutenant. That would be you know the lieutenant was...he wanted to know what was...what I was going to write on that thing. And so I cut and pasted it sent it to him and let him take a look at it. Before I printed out and gave it to the officer. And here I have a patrol supervisor inspection report on Officer Morgan 18

Best: Go Holstine:

Best: Pause Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: (pages turning) (pause) Holstine:

Best: Yes. Holstine: Best:

Holstine:

Best: Holstine: Best: Yes Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Yes Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: (Not Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Yeah. Holstine: Best: Holstine:

dated 6-4-09. Now is that actually the PPR ? Let me take a look at it. I=ve never seen that document before. I=ve never seen that type of document before I got that. We didn=t have those when I was in patrol the last time. Is that the PPR ? sir. Okay. But it=s called a patrol supervisor inspection report? Yes. It probably should be renamed for a PPR or this is like a generic. This is what its officially called by the lieutenants. There the ones who devised this form and created it. Okay. But I think we just use it and call it a PPR. I remember hearing the phrase PPR from way back. Is this just... This was the PPR car that I had written when I was in the field on Central Ave with Officer Morgan. Okay so this is a PPR from the first Morgan meeting as I=m..I=m calling it. June fourth that transpired between our first talk and our second talk. Okay the second page tier is also the same document or the same form but it is a 6-26-09. It looks like I have uh...uh...do I have them both? sir. So I have them both here... One would be the one from the field that I...and then this would be the second PPR that I wrote. I put in date for the interview. All right good enough. And then here is I forget how I got this document to tell you the truth. audible) It=s a printout of June 2009 is that your daily ledger or something? On who...on who... It...it I...I put that in my calendar all the time the officer called off sick or courts. Is this a printout of uh...uh...of...of our Micro Soft Outlook... ....thing? You printed that out? Yes. I use that on my calendar all the time. Only thing I need is a mental tickler to put it in there. I use it too. I=ve never printed it out. Never knew what it look liked printed out. Okay, so...um...now from what I interviewed. Let=s see I talked to Tammy Morgan and she indicated that at one point in this journey that we=re talking about what I=m referring to. As tongue and cheeky of the progression of the Morgan issues.... ..hmm ...as they progressed and as the other incidents happen, other issues came 19

Best: Um Holstine:

Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Probably... Holstine: Best:

forward. Now I know a lot of that was addressed by Lt. Sessions, but one of the...one of the meetings that I=ve been told about was that at...and I think we spoke about it, in your office the other day. Is this time when Tammy Morgan and uh...Jamie Crawford uh...in my mind I want to say cornered you in your office. But they...they uh...came to you with some information and questions about this whole uh...Morgan related business. Tell me about that. Sure. Uh... it was at my office. They called me, actually Tammy call me on the phone and said would you come up and see me. And when was this in relation to the Marion PPR=s and all that? Well this was only within the last month. So this was after both of the Marion... And all of this had transpired, all of this had taken place at the conclusion of the...that second PPR that I wrote uh...Officer Morgan had a meeting with Lt. Duke and went to another shift. Okay. He left my shift and when to another shift. Uh...I had Officer Clevinger come to my shift, Officer Morgan went to swing shift. Okay I think I may have a date out of this. First of all... did they ever...did Jaime or Tammy ever present any memos to when...during this cause ... No in this meeting that took place. They called me. Tammy called me and said would you come up and see me in my office. Uh..huh. I walked upstairs the door was closed. I opened it and Tammy Morgan was there and Jaime Crawford was there in the office. She said come on in close the door. Okay. According to her memo this meeting would of happen on 9-16 of 09. Does that sound.... Okay. I=m sorry I just wanted to establish that date and time frame is relatively accurate. Please go on. So I walked in and they=re both looking at me and they said close the door. I said, what=s going on? And she gave me a greeting card that she had found. She said I found this greeting card at home or something like that and ask me to read it. On the face of the greeting card there was basically a love note and things like that. Is that a copy...is that what you saw or did you see to the actual card or none of the above? I saw the card. You saw an actual greeting card. But this is a copy of that? Okay. And this is uh...just for the tape...this is the copy of a greeting card in which the front of the greeting card reads sexy smile, sexy talk, sexy kisses uh...etc. etc. sorry. 20

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Correct. Holstine:

Best:

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: Holstine:

So I read the card and uh...she ask me she said what do you think? And then she put a time line of the nature of the greeting card was something about something between Lori Battey and Marion Morgan love you that kind of nonsense and stuff like that. And then she put a time line on that to say that it occurred this card was made or delivered or something like that prior to my interview that I had with Officer Morgan. Also it said, it said that this should prove as a bases that there was an adulteress relationship, that it occurred prior to my second meeting that I had with Officer Morgan. Right. And I said okay. I said so what do you want to do? She goes well didn=t he lie to you about it? I said well I don=t know. My lieutenant told specifically what to do. This is to write him a memo. And I sent it down right away and I gave the memo that to Lt. Jerry Duke. I knew based on the history and the ups and downs of what this two were doing this is a progressing type of thing. And I told them I said, I told Tammy I said I gave my memo to the lieutenant about what transpired. It is if the lieutenant wants to further this or use this then he can. But I don=t know at what status what time he wants to do that. Jaime Crawford present during this meeting? Right? Did she uh...was she an active participant in the meeting or? She produced the memo that was addressed to Scott Gillman. And did she...did you read that memo? Okay. I perused it. Now I have a memo that is undated. But the subject line is information received from a student. And that memo was from Officer Crawford to Scott Gillman and the base the...the readers digest version is that apparently months before all this started some school child came to uh...came to uh...Officer Crawford and claimed that Marion was her aunts boyfriend. Is that... =s what I remember. Okay. So you perused that memo. I did. And I remember also a commenting there was no date to the memo and stuff. And...I think both of them are looking at me saying, well here=s the proof that he lied to you about having an adulteress relationship what else do you need? I told them I said we...I wrote this memo up to lieutenant and since I knew that this was a developing issue its up to the lieutenant as to what we=re going to do. Right and speaking of the developing issue part of this were you...at what part or any...if at all did you become aware that also Lt. Sessions was uh...triaging and dealing with some of these issues. Were you aware of 21

Best: That Holstine: Best:

Holstine:

Best: Yes Holstine: Best: Lt. Holstine: Best: No Holstine:

Holstine: Best: And Holstine: Best: Um Holstine: Best: Yeah

that at that time? Yes or no? sir. Had you been given any instructions by the lieutenants as to how to handle this you know reoccurring and still developing personal nightmare between the Morgans. Had they told you anything/ Sessions no. Okay. And what had Lt. Duke directed you to do in general? Had he given you a play book as to...okay in the future when this comes up we=re going to this? sir. What I was getting from Lt. Duke was he wanted me to document what had transpired. You know he was aware of my first interview that I had with Marion Morgan out in the field. And that I gave him the PPR. He was aware about you know the complaint that happen when I was on graveyard shift and he wanted me to make sure I addressed it and had the interviews. This is what I want you to do. You know I want you to interview everyone. I want you to come up with it. I want you to deal with it at your level Glenn and stuff. And write about it he says, because I don=t want to deal with it at my level as lieutenant. I want you to deal with it at yours. This is your work issue and stuff. So I said I understand and that=s why I wrote up all of this things and then I gave it to him and I said, now there might be something that happens in you know in the future. Do we want to play this card now? Or do we want to wait for something else to happen that=s the sense that I felt you know when I got what I got from the lieutenant. Saying he wanted all of this documents together. Um..hmm. that=s what...that=s the way I felt from you know Lt. Duke saying he wanted all this information. And that=s why I cut and past PPR to send them off to him is this the right kind of language. All right well, okay. I want...I want to get back to uh...the actual meeting between you, Tammy Morgan, Jaime Crawford. Now so they presented you to you... ...hm ...correct me if I=m wrong. They presented to you what they portrayed as proof positive that you=ve been lied to. What else did they...what other topic did they address? that=s what they spoke about you know the greeting card that they put this time frame in there. This greeting card was recovered at her house in some files. And she made the discover of it only like a week ago. Something like that she found it. Then Jamie talked about she had the kid at the school. She wrote up the memo to Sgt. Gillman. I looked at the memo and she had a copy in her hand that she had given it to Tammy Morgan. 22

Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine:

Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best:

Best: Yeah. Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: I

Sure. And I said okay. And then after I left that I went and talked to Scott Gillman. I said, Scott are you aware Jamie Morgan gave a copy of the memorandum that she wrote to you. Is now in the possession of Tammy Morgan. And Scott said, no I was not aware of that. That irritates me I need to find out what=s going on. I think that memo was between the writer and it was her memo. Right. Back to the meeting. Did other than this greeting card , love letter thing and evidence that they brought you. Did they bring you anything else to you at that point? During that meeting. Was there I remember them saying what else do you need as far as proof that he had an adulteress relationship... Right. ...before I had my interview. And I said okay you have a memo... Right. ...that has no date on it. And I=m not disputing what you said there in your memorandum because (not audible) Right...I understand that we=ve covered that. Is that all that they brought you? Did they bring you anything else ? Did they bring up any other topics that they thought were uh...were uh...pertain? Or is it just about what we=ve already talked about? She talked about how she been discussing this issue with Lt. Sessions. Um..hmm And uh.. I went around and talked to her about saying..okay apart from all of this stuff how are you doing? Right. Are you doing okay? Are you staying focus on it, because she still has to write reports everyday. Um..hmm And uh...she has you know her reports scatter. Some days she has good reports for me. And I read them and I read them everyday. Cause she writes her reports and other days I get her reports and they=re horrible. I mean I positively feel dizzy after I=ve read the report. I have to walk around and then come back because I said apart from all these things happening in your personal life you still have to do reports here. So let=s stay focus. So you ended up having this counseling session with her and...within the meeting? ...with her and Jaime Crawford? Yes I said stay focus here in the workplace. Okay. Did she mention...did she ever mention to you during this meeting that she had already addressed some issues with Lt. Duke as well? don=t recall Duke being brought up...she brought it up with Lt. Sessions and she said what she was speaking with Lt. Sessions about was more on a 23

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine:

Best: I Holstine: Best: That

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Yes. Holstine: Best: No. Holstine: Best: Holstine: (pause) Holstine:

emotional key... Right. How are you dealing with the stress going on? Right, right..right. ...she spoke about that and then I kind of built upon that saying how are you doing because I knew of the reports that I get from her. Someday are fine. Other days are just horrible. And that=s how I spoke about... All right then that=s...that=s pretty well...established that every stage in this game. I mean every supervisor or manager that dealt with these folks was trying to have a sympathetic ear. And take a counseling approach uh...so that=s not uh...I=m really not terrible interested in all of the details with that. But what I...what I do want to nail down here is among all these other allegations that were in the notice. Did any of this other stuff come up? During this Sgt. Best, Tammy Morgan, and Jamie Crawford meeting. didn=t hear about... Okay. It was just the...it was just the hey, sergeant Marion lied to you and here=s the proof? =s just the jest of what I felt from her because they were saying here=s your supporting documents... Okay. Then when I read in your complaint about I didn=t hear any of those things. Okay. Did she uh...um...and you told her you had forwarded...you told her you would advise your lieutenant? ...of what has gone on. Did you...did you accept this from her? Okay. Uh...cause um...so she never gave you a copy of this? No. She didn=t. She let me read it. It was I remember the face it was red, with kind of glittery stuff on it. All right I think we=re getting on down the road here. So... Let=s see we=ve covered...we=ve covered your essentially two meetings with Marion regarding the possible relationship between he and Lori. We=ve covered your meeting with Tammy Morgan, and Jamie Crawford and what they presented at you. And we=ve obviously covered you know...you know the reporting you done to the lieutenant. What else is out there that we haven=t talked about that pertains to this. I had a sense after I left Tammy Morgan, and Jamie Crawford that I think that they were upset with me that I didn=t actually take their documents and write a complaint. I had a sense But that was it. Right 24

Best: Holstine:

Best:

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Um Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best:

Holstine:

Best: Yes Holstine:

Best:

However, I have a good working relationship with my lieutenant, Duke. I trust his gage on what should be done. And Lt. Duke told me to write a memo, I wrote him a memo. He didn=t tell me to write out a complaint form and I felt at the time that you know they were looking for stuff to push me to that part where I had to write a complaint saying you know Officer Morgan lied to you. Was there ever any overt solicitation? Did they ever just say are you going to write a complaint? No. I think that it=s that non verbal saying you know or expecting me to do something. Yeah, you=re a sergeant step up and do this... ..hmm ...that kind...that kind of.. You know this is the things that yo should be doing and stuff but, the way that I have a relationship with uh...Lt. Duke. Are we going to do something about this or are there going to be further developments. Um..hmm Because you know I know how Jerry is he wants you know all his ducks in a row before he does anything. And he=s very methodical in and he wants to have you know chronological order of events. And there=s an expectation of events that Jerry wanted from me and that=s what he laid out for me. Because he was monitoring what was taking place and I did that and then I was uh...when I left their office there was like what else are you going to do? Saying they=ve investigated all these things...I mean there=s an investigation taking place here, there what else do you need.? Well and like I told this is a are we going to play this card at the moment or is this going to be something else. You know if the lieutenant says we=re going to write out a complaint based on what we have, okay I=ll do it. But I can...you know there=s a certain trust element that I have with my lieutenant and he told me to do this. Well we=re getting off...off track here again. Not that its horrible but, I just want to make sure that as far as any contact, any meetings that you had with any...any of the principals in this Tammy Morgan, and uh...Marion Morgan in particular. Have we covered all that material. sir. And um...based on other conversations that you had, rumors you heard, you know smoke signals you=ve read, whatever. Uh...what other witnesses obviously Al Otero uh...what other witnesses can you point me to that can shed a light on this. I mean I=ve got Al Otero, Tammy Morgan, Marion Morgan I mean we know who all the players are. It=s an in-house thing. Anybody...anybody that=s don=t know of anybody new that you=ve spoken about that would have more direct knowledge about it. Okay. I heard there=s been some things 25

Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Tom Holstine: Best:

Holstine: Best: Yes Holstine: Best: Holstine: Best: Holstine:

Best Holstine:

that have taken place. I know that once Marion Morgan left my shift and he went to swing shift and he went to go work for Tom Messina. I knew that during that...after a shift change apparently some kind of confrontation had taken place in the hallway at the station. Where Tammy had confronted uh...Marion about this greeting card. Though she lied and uh...I knew that Tammy came into my office and told me about it. She was upset about it um...Marion went to Sgt. Messina and the language to the effect you better control her, get her away from me. That kind of stuff, we=re not going to have that kind of stuff taking place inside the station. I knew that...that had transpired. I didn=t hear the conversation, I didn=t see the conversation but I knew that both of them were running in and out the sergeants office. I was trying to triage Tammy with her emotions. And Marion went to Messina saying you better control her. Okay. Those kind of things took place. So there might be some conversation between Marion and uh...Tom Messina... Messina. That may or may not be pertinent. Okay. Well I think that when dealing with this greeting card. The greeting card is the touch stone moment about it. You know Tammy had brought the greeting card to my attention I think that=s when she showed it to him. Marion saying I caught you. I caught you I know you lied to a supervisor I got you now sir. Yeah...she maybe correct in that. We=ll see. Anyway you know when you look at this greeting card. Do you automatically know who wrote it? No. Is it signed? Signed by somebody name Lori. You probably looked at it before I did. I just breezed over it. All righty we have...we have dissected it and I think that we=ve ask you the question about three or four different ways. Anyone else or any other episode, meetings, outburst or anything else that pertenet that we haven=t talked about. No sir. If you don=t have any more questions of me then we=ll end this at 10:50 hours.

26

27