Laura: [00:00:00] A few. All right.

Interpreter: [sneezes]

Laura: Bless you.

Daudi: Ini sudah?

Laura: Perfect.

Daudi: Selamat datang di Lombok.

Interpreter: Welcome to Lombok Island.

Laura: Thank you.

Daudi: Selamat bertemu juga di SANTAI.

Interpreter: Nice to meet you in SANTAI.

Daudi: Saya Daudi.

Interpreter: I'm Daudi.

Daudi: Di SANTAI, saya selaku sekretaris.

Interpreter: I'm secretary in SANTAI [00:00:30].

Daudi: Perkenalan mungkin cukup itu saja. Silakan mungkin ada yang ingin
ditanyakan.

Interpreter: That's enough for the interview, I think. If you have any question, right
now.

Laura: I don't know how much you know what I do, but now we just quickly give you
a short introduction.

Interpreter: Jadi mungkin Anda tidak tahu benar-benar apa yang saya lakukan, jadi
mungkin biarkan saya-

Daudi: [00:01:00] Menjelaskan?

Interpreter: - memperkenalkan diri saya secara singkat.

Laura: I'm Laura. I'm a university professor and I started research in SANTAI when I
was still a PhD student, so a doctor student, a couple of years ago. I think, five years
ago, almost. Four years ago.

Interpreter: I think it's three years ago. 2016.

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Laura: 2015?

Daudi: 2017.

Interpreter: '16.

Laura: '16?

Interpreter: '17?

Daudi: 2017 ke sini.

Laura: '17 or-- Say [00:01:30] like three, four years. I came to SANTAI because I
was involved with the UNICEF project in Jakarta and there I was looking at how
UNICEF was helping to change the national regulation against child marriage. I was
living in Jakarta for two months. There, I met someone from YKP and KPI and they
referred me to Oxfam and Oxfam connected me to SANTAI, and that's how I came
here [00:02:00].

Interpreter: Saya adalah Laura. Saya adalah seorang profesor di Universitas

London. Sebelumnya saya pernah ke sini waktu saya menjadi mahasiswa doktor.
Mungkin masih ingat, dua atau tiga tahun atau mungkin empat tahun yang lalu. Jadi,
saya sempat bekerja di UNICEF dan kami sama-sama kayak mencari tahu
bagaimana caranya untuk bisa merubah undang-undang di tingkat atas, undang-
undang nasional. Di saat saya tinggal di sana, di [00:02:30] Jakarta dua bulan, saya
diperkenalkan sama dua orang. Dua orang ini kemudian memperkenalkan saya
kepada Oxfam. Salah satu orang Oxfam kemudian merekomendasi SANTAI untuk
saya melakukan penelitian.

Laura: Now, I did a publication about the UNICEF, national regulation project and
now I would like to publish about SANTAI and what you're doing in the island
[unintelligible 00:02:57] because I think your approach [00:03:00] is interesting
with the Child Forum, the youth activists and changing regulation at the same time. I
would like to read about the strategy of SANTAI.

Interpreter: Sebelumnya, saya sudah mempublish apa yang telah UNICEF

kerjakan. Kemudian saya rencananya akan mem-publish apa yang sudah SANTAI
kerjakan karena ini sangat menarik dan harusnya orang-orang tahu karena ini
sangat luar biasa, SANTAI bisa bekerja dengan membangun[00:03:30] pemuda,
terus juga sudah ada Forum Anak, jadi saya rasa, ini perlu untuk dipublikasi.

Laura: Maybe I can start with asking you how long have you been with SANTAI.

Interpreter: Mungkin pertanyaan pertama yang akan saya tanyakan adalah

seberapa lama Anda bekerja untuk SANTAI.

Daudi: Saya tidak ingat.

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Interpreter: I don't remember.

Daudi: Secara resmi, di [00:04:00] SANTAI bergabung itu dari 2002.

Interpreter: Officially, I worked with SANTAI in 2002.

Daudi: Itu masuk di strukturalnya.

Interpreter: I involved in the structure of SANTAI, like organization of SANTAI.

Laura: That's a long time. When was SANTAI founded?

Interpreter: 1986.

Laura: You joined quite early, in 2002 [00:04:30]. Why did you join SANTAI?

Interpreter: Anda bergabung sangat lama dan itu kenapa Anda mau bergabung
sama SANTAI?

Daudi: Panjang sebetulnya, ya.

Interpreter: I have a long story. Dia mau dengar.

Laura: I have time.

[laughter]

Daudi: Saya adalah salah satu anak dampingannya SANTAI.

Interpreter: I'm the one who- child that SANTAI mentored [00:05:00]. SANTAI is the
tutor for Mas Daudi when he was young.

Daudi: Dari tahun '90.

Interpreter: In 2018. I'm sorry. In 1990.

Laura: 1990?

Interpreter: Yes. Since 1990, yes.

Daudi: Kemudian, kenapa saya harus ada di SANTAI-

Interpreter: Why I'm here, because-

Daudi: - ini [00:05:30] bagian dari saya mencoba menerapkan hal-hal yang sudah
saya dapatkan sebelumnya.

Interpreter: - this is like my commitment that I wan't to apply about knowledge that I
got before.

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Daudi: Di samping itu juga, kondisi pada tahun '90 sampai dengan tahun 2000, itu
kondisi anak-anak memang masih sangat [00:06:00] memprihatinkan.

Interpreter: In another way, in 2019, the children situation, it's really really sad, in
sadness situation.

Daudi: Kemudian ada banyak hal yang menjadi- hal yang penting menurut prinsip
saya. Salah satunya adalah--

Interpreter: There are many important things, [00:06:30] in my opinion, there are
many things that--

Daudi: Salah satunya adalah bagaimana pendidikan anak-anak di usia, atau di

masa-masa tahun '90 sampai dengan 2000 itu--

Interpreter: I want to change in '90 until 2000?

Daudi: Iya. Itu memang membutuhkan banyak perhatian. Dari sisi fasilitas pada
[00:07:00] masa itu jauh dari kata cukup. Kemudian SANTAI itu ada dengan anak-
anak mencoba mengembangkan sistem pendidikan non-formal melalui cara
bermain, bernyanyi dan banyak hal lainnya, yang tentunya itu tidak dilakukan oleh
pendidikan formal.

Interpreter: -- and also I didn't get it in a formal education [00:07:30].

Daudi: Saya selaku anak dampingannya SANTAI, tentu punya satu kewajiban moral
untuk bagaimana menerapkan atau bagaimana mengembangkan hal-hal yang
sudah saya dapatkan sebelumnya dari SANTAI.

Interpreter: -- these things that I got from SANTAI, so I want involve or another way
I can say I want to be agent of SANTAI.

Laura: [00:08:00] That's quite interesting that you joined SANTAI because of your
personal reason, because you were helped by SANTAI when you were younger.
Can you talk a little bit more about that like how did SANTAI help you in 1990?

Interpreter: Ini adalah hal yang sangat menarik karena Mas Daudi secara personal
bergabung dengan SANTAI karena SANTAI membantu Mas Daudi pada saat itu,
jadi bisa tidak Mas Daudi menjelaskan [00:08:30] bagaimana SANTAI membantu
Mas Daudi pada saat itu? Kondisi Mas Daudi mungkin.

Daudi: Kalau berangkat dari saya secara pribadi, saya itu latar belakangnya dari tiga
bersaudara. Kemudian, anak laki-laki satu-satunya. Kemudian, [00:09:00]
seharusnya pendidikan yang harusnya saya dapat itu bisa lebih, misalnya, karena
saya adalah anak laki-laki.

Interpreter: Tunggu, tunggu, bagaimana ini bahasanya ya? Let me understand first,
okay?
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4
Laura: Yes.

Interpreter: Mas Daudi want to say, at that time, his family background, he was born
in a small [00:09:30] family, have three siblings and he is the one son in this family.
Normally the boy must be have all fulfilled needed, like education or clothes or
everything that he want but he didn't get it. [00:10:00]

Terus?

Daudi: Tapi karena situasi dan kondisi, terutama ekonomi, di mana pada tahun '94,
itu kedua orang tua saya--

Interpreter: Maaf, Mas, berapa? 19--?

Daudi: 1994.

Interpreter: '94? 1994. In 1994-- Terus?

Speaker 4: Besok?

Daudi: Iya, boleh.

Speaker 4: Besok? [00:10:30]

Daudi: Boleh.

Interpreter: 1994--

Daudi: Kedua orang tua saya, kemudian adik-adik saya, itu mereka harus pergi
transmigrasi ke Sulawesi.

Interpreter: They have to go, migrant, go to Sulawesi.

Laura: Where did they go?

Interpreter: Sulawesi.

Laura: Another island?

Interpreter: Another island. Still in Indonesia.

Laura: Sulawesi.

Daudi: Sehingga dari sisi pendidikan dan perhatian itu, akhirnya jadi [00:11:00]
tidak bisa untuk saya dapatkan. Lalu kemudian--

Interpreter: I lived alone and I did't get education that I need.

Daudi: Lalu kemudian, di SANTAI itu mengembangkan pola pendidikan yang

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5
bagaimana itu bisa diterima oleh anak-anak, kemudian anak-anak bisa senang,
anak-anak mampu mengenali tentang diri dan lingkungan.

Interpreter: [crosstalk] and also I can improve myself like [00:11:30] play a game,
talk with the person I have a lot of friends.

Daudi: Itu yang kemudian menyebabkan saya akhirnya harus bersama dengan
SANTAI, karena--

Interpreter: That's my reason to join with SANTAI personally.

Laura: Can I ask [00:12:00] just why your parents and your sisters left and why you
were the only one that was left behind?

Interpreter: Kenapa orang tua sama saudara-saudaranya Mas pergi dan kenapa
Mas yang harus tinggal sendiri di sini?

Daudi: Karena situasi dan kondisi ekonomi. Kami tidak punya tempat tinggal yang
permanen, kami tidak punya lahan pertanian, kemudian juga [00:12:30] di dusun
saya itu tidak ada mata pencaharian yang tetap.

Interpreter: [crosstalk] there is no job vacancy.

Daudi: Lalu kemudian, kenapa saya harus tinggal sendiri? Saya harus
menyelesaikan sekolah saya paling tidak sampai dengan SMP.

Interpreter: Why I have to live alone? Because I need to finish my study at least
until junior high school.

Daudi: Alhamdulillah, saya kemudian bisa selesai SMP [00:13:00] itu melalui
program yang namanya Anak Asuh, yang dilakukan oleh SANTAI.

Interpreter: [crosstalk] in the program Anak Asuh with SANTAI. SANTAI have a
program called Anak Asuh at that time, so Mas Daudi one of child engaged with
SANTAI. Anak Asuh.

Daudi: Waktu itu, program SANTAI ini, itu mengambil anak-anak yang kurang
mampu.

Interpreter: This program [00:13:30] involved poor children.

Daudi: Salah satunya adalah saya dan ada beberapa anak yang lain. Program itu,
itu dulunya bertahap. Ada saya, kemudian ada adik tingkat dan seterusnya. Itu
berlaku sampai dengan tahun 1998.

Interpreter: [crosstalk] this program progressed until--?

Daudi: [00:14:00] 1998.

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6
Interpreter: 19--

Daudi: '98.

Interpreter: 1998. Until 1998. Dia mulai dari?

Daudi: Dari tahun 1993.

Interpreter: Start in 1993.

Laura: [00:14:30] You've seen SANTAI then developed, right, from your own
personal experience to when you joined in 2002 until today. How has SANTAI shifted
programs over the last- over 20 years now?

Interpreter: Jadi secara personal, Mas Daudi kan sudah lama ini sama SANTAI.
Dari personalnya Mas Daudi sendiri, semenjak Mas Daudi masuk ke SANTAI dari
tahun 2002 [00:15:00], sampai sekarang bisa kita bilang sudah 20 tahun, SANTAI,
bagaimana caranya SANTAI mengoperasikan [unintelligible 00:15:08] itu,
menjalankan program-programnya ini?

Daudi: Secara umum, pada dasarnya sama,-

Interpreter: Generally, I can say, it's the same, how SANTAI--

Daudi: - tetapi kenapa kemudian [00:15:30] SANTAI punya sistem pengelolaan

program yang bisa berdiri sampai dengan sekarang-

Interpreter: In other way, how SANTAI can manage all of these programs well until
now--

Daudi: - ini berdasarkan pada roh dasar daripada lembaga ini [00:16:00].

Interpreter: [crosstalk] because the basic of SANTAI. Vision, mission?

Daudi: Rohnya adalah semua orang itu guru. Alam raya sekolahnya.

Interpreter: SANTAI have essential thing, it's like how to say it. Motto?

Laura: Yes. You can say motto, yes.

Interpreter: Like a motto. SANTAI have a motto like everyone is a teacher and in
this nature, [00:16:30] nature is the place of the school.

Daudi: Sehingga, ada regenerasi yang dilakukan oleh SANTAI itu sendiri. Jadi,
orang-orang yang ada di SANTAI ini, itu bukan orang-orang yang direkrut melalui
sistem surat lamaran dan lain sebagainya.

Interpreter: All of the people in SANTAI right now [00:17:00], not recruited by paper,
so they are-
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7
Daudi: Regenerasi.

Interpreter: - the regeneration of SANTAI, like cadres and someone volunteer in

SANTAI. They will not send a paper to SANTAI like- or SANTAI will [00:17:30] not
open a job vacancy, [unintelligible 00:17:32] employment, something like that.

Laura: The people come just like through it because they're anxious to contribute.

Interpreter: Yes.

Laura: SANTAI is not searching for people, but the people are coming to SANTAI to
work?

Interpreter: Yes.

Laura: That is the same for you?

Interpreter: I think the same for me.

[laughter]

Laura: That has stayed the same for the last 20 years? You never actually looked
for employees?

Daudi: No.

Interpreter: [00:18:00] SANTAI is like have the generation all the ways. Like right
now, SANTAI have many cadres that you think maybe four, five years next SANTAI
can search cadres officially in SANTAI like Mas Daudi and I.

Laura: Yes, so you mean people from the cadres will join SANTAI and then help the
next generation? Okay. That's how you maintain such a big raise of people that are
in SANTAI [00:18:30].

Interpreter: Yes.

Laura: Can I ask you-- You said that the programs that SANTAI has, they relatively
similar to one another over the last 20 years.

Interpreter: Mas Daudi, bisa dibilang semua programnya SANTAI itu sangat
berhubungan satu dengan yang lainnya di beberapa tahun sampai saat ini.

Daudi: Program yang dikembangkan di SANTAI itu, itu antara satu program dengan
program yang lain itu memang [00:19:00] harus berkaitan-

Interpreter: [crosstalk] must be related.

Daudi: - karena ini mengacu dari Anggaran Dasar dan Anggaran Rumah Tangga,
AD/ART.
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8
Interpreter: How to say AD/ART. It's like if you have a budget, we'll prepare for a
budget and a small group first, it's like a family. [00:19:30] The program, one
another, must be related because SANTAI have a commitment that the budgeting
with-- Personally in SANTAI, how to relate with the budget that-- Apa anggaran?

Daudi: Anggaran Dasar dan Anggaran Rumah Tangga.

Interpreter: The basic- the really basic of the budget. You understand?

Laura: No.

[laughter]

Interpreter: [00:20:00] I'll write it for you. I'll figure it out later.

Laura: Okay.

Interpreter: Anggaran Rumah Tangga, ya?

Daudi: Anggaran Dasar dan Anggaran Rumah Tangga.

Interpreter: It's like family budget and the basic of the budget, so sometime will not
true the budget like four-- [crosstalk]

Daudi: Anggaran Dasar dulu.

Interpreter: Ini memang harus berhubungan sama-- [00:20:30] Anggaran Dasar.

Daudi: Ya.

Interpreter: Kalau dulu SANTAI tidak punya donor?

Daudi: Tetap sih, kalau AD/ART kemudian SOP, lalu kemudian Renstra itu satu
kesatuan.

Interpreter: This is the card that input something for SOP [00:21:00] that SANTAI
has and also Renstra, you don't know Renstra?

Daudi: Rencana Strategis.

Interpreter: It's like strategic plan and SOP. These is include in the strategic plan of
SANTAI.

Laura: That's distribution of the budged?

Interpreter: Yes. There is a basic of the budget and there is also like family budget.

Laura: What is the family budget?

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9
Interpreter: Apa anggaran rumah tangga itu? [00:21:30]

Daudi: Begini Rin, Anggaran Dasar dan Anggaran Rumah Tangga itu sebetulnya
kaidah atau aturan yang ada di lembaga.

Interpreter: This is the rule of the SANTAI as the organization.

Laura: Ya.

Daudi: Mau ada ataupun tidak ada dana, itu AD, ART itu harus ada.

Interpreter: This is like saving budget of SANTAI, if SANTAI don't have any donor
[00:22:00] like maybe--

Laura: You don't get money from the donor.

Interpreter: Ya, another NGO or international NGO, this is the budget that SANTAI
saving, it's still- SANTAI still can operate.

Laura: [crosstalk]

Daudi: Dan semua lembaga harus punya ini.

Interpreter: That's why also we have[00:22:30] to eliminate the program that

another NGO or another International donor offer with us, if not related to SANTAI
vision mission so SANTAI will say no. For this also, if SANTAI looks it's too much
and we can not cover it after they left-

Laura: After gone.

Interpreter: -after they gone. SANTAI still can continue, [00:23:00] because
SANTAI save this, and help with strategic plan, with SOP. Okay, you got it?

Laura: I get it, so you only do project that you can sustain financially.

Daudi: Ya, tapi hal yang membedakan antara SANTAI dengan lembaga-lembaga
yang lain, itu pada proses penyusunan strategic planning-nya.

Interpreter: This is also make SANTAI different from another NGO, because
SANTAI have strategic plan like we can [00:23:30] still, like I said before, we can still
apply the program even the donor low.

Daudi: Yang membedakan itu adalah ketika pembuatan atau perencanaan rencana
strategis itu melibatkan banyak pihak, mulai dari kader, kemudian anak dampingan,
[00:24:00] semua staff, relawan, voluntir dan sebagainya.

Interpreter: SANTAI also may the strategic plan involve all of the people work with
SANTAI, such a volunteers, cadres, staff, people in the village are there, head
village, sub-head village, leader and communities, Child Forum, all of it SANTAI
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10
involve [00:24:30] in the strategic plan.

Laura: Okay.

Daudi: Sehingga program yang dikembangkan itu dia tidak berbasis proyek.

Interpreter: The program that develop with SANTAI not only based on project.

Daudi: Karena dari awal penyusunan, itu ada keterlibatan pihak-pihak yang tadi
sehingga kemudian memunculkan rasa tanggung jawab bersama baik oleh orang-
orang yang ada di SANTAI maupun dengan orang-orang yang ada di Basis.

Interpreter: Because from the begining of start of project, there are those people
imvolve. That's why it will be. [00:25:00] It can continue help us to [unintelligible
00:25:05] obligation. Not only people in SANTAI but also people in the village.

Laura: Ya, so the people in the villages, they're included in your strategic plan. Was
there incentive to be part of that strategic plan because for them it's an obligation
[00:25:30] to their community and to SANTAI, right?

Interpreter: That's obligation for them?

Laura: Yes. What's their motivation?

Interpreter: Apa motivasi mereka untuk dilibatkan ke dalam strategic-- Itu

strateginya SANTAI, apa motivasi mereka?

Daudi: Tentunya motivasinya adalah, ini akan menjadi tanggung jawab bersama.
[00:26:00] Ketika satu isyu kita kembangkan di komunitas, maka komunitas itu juga
memiliki tanggung jawab secara moral untuk bagaimana menjaga-- Ketika kita
libatkan mereka untuk menyusun rencana strategis SANTAI.

Interpreter: If we iNvolve them to arrange the strategic plan in SANTAI-

Daudi: Dengan melibatkan orang-orang itu, [00:26:30] akan muncul tanggung jawab
moral dari komunitas.

Interpreter: with involve them will be-- This will be shown obligation for personally in
the community. So They will fill like, "Oh, okay, I have to caring people [00:27:00] in
my village."

Kenapa mereka termotivasi, apa motivasi mereka yang ikut?

Daudi: Kalau motivasinya tentu karena SANTAI adalah tempat belajar bersama,
mereka juga ingin belajar tentang--

Interpreter: [crosstalk] because SANTAI is the place that they can study together,
learn about many things [00:27:30] like sustainability, capacity building, build the
organization. That's all the motivation.
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11
Laura: Like a free education for them.

Interpreter: Yes, that's a free education.

Laura: Okay. Can you tell me- I mean, it sounds so easy, right? like you just go
around the villages, you talk to the village leader and than you go and you make
them join your strategic plan like [unintelligible 00:27:57] , but [00:28:00] I'm
imagining it's not always like that, right? Like not everyone is happy to collaborate
with SANTAI.

Interpreter: Ini kayak kedengaran gampang sekali, Anda, Mas Daudi pergi keliling
desa, terus habis itu ngobrol sama kepala desa, orang-orang di desa, terus habis itu
mereka dilibatkan di dalam strateginya SANTAI, tapi saya percaya bahwa ada
beberapa orang yang tidak, istilahnya tidak bisa diajak untuk berpartisipasi dalam hal
ini, [00:28:30] apakah seperti itu yang terjadi?

Daudi: Tentu berbicara pada konteks-konteks pengembangan merubah cara

berpikir masyarakat, itu tantangannya pasti ada.

Interpreter: If we talk about how we change the people mind, of course we have a
lot of challenges.

Daudi: Tapi yang menjadi [00:29:00] komitmen kita bahwa tidak mungkin kita akan
berhenti menangani satu persoalan hanya gara-gara satu atau dua orang,
sementara persoalan ini akan dirasakan oleh banyak orang.

Interpreter: [crosstalk] Because our commitment that of course we can not stop
because this one person ignore us. We see these is how essential things that
[00:29:30] give positive effect to people, that's why we still continue.

Laura: Okay. What do you do with people that are not willing to--?

Interpreter: Apa yang Mas Daudi lakukan sama orang-orang yang tidak mau
bersama SANTAI?

Daudi: Dalam banyak hal, [00:30:00]

yang sudah kita lakukan itu-

Interpreter: Many things-

Daudi: Ya mereka tetap kita-

Interpreter: - that we did,-

Daudi: - kita libatkan tapi bukan melibatkan mereka secara langsung.

Interpreter: - we still involve them, but not directly,-

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12
Daudi: Melibatkan mereka itu-

Interpreter: - and personally.

Daudi: - di tataran-tataran tertentu.

Interpreter: But we have a level, it's like a- Boleh Dita jelaskan sedikit kayak misal di
desa, kita nanti minta desa yang melibatkan mereka begitu? Tapi dengan program
SANTAI.

Daudi: Nanti mungkin saya jelaskan itu .

Interpreter: Okay. [00:30:30] Lupa deh- [laughs] So, what I said before?

Interviewer: We will still involve them not but directly, personally. We have different
levels.

Interpreter: Okay. That's Mas Daudi said.

Daudi: Apa?

Interpreter: Tadi kan tidak melibatkan mereka secara langsung, tapi ada tahapan.

Daudi: Sudah kamu jelaskan itu?

Interpreter: Ya. Di level-level berbeda.

Daudi: Apalagi pertanyaannya?

Interpreter: Kayak level berbeda itu kayak pas- So I ask Mas Daudi, it's like what
sort of level? [00:31:00]

Interviewer: What level? [laughs]

Interpreter: Level apa misalnya? Kan soalnya tidak dilibatkan secara personal, tapi
secara tahap-tahap yang berbeda-beda itu kayak apa?

Daudi: Kan jenis kegiatannya banyak.

Interpreter: We have a variety of activities.

Daudi: Ada kegiatan yang melibatkan kelompok secara besar.

Interpreter: There are activities-

Daudi: Ada kegiatan yang melibatkan kelompok scope kecil.

Interpreter: - which involve big community.-

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Daudi: Kemudian ada kegiatan yang melibatkan individu.

Interpreter: - and small community [00:31:30] and in personally.

Daudi: Bagi kelompok masyarakat yang istilahnya-

Interpreter: For people who ignore SANTAI-

Daudi: - kontra atau tidak mau terlibat di program itu,-

Interpreter: - or don't want to be with SANTAI,-

Daudi: - maka yang kita lakukan adalah pendekatan individu.

Interpreter: We will engage with personally first.

Daudi: Di samping pendekatan individu,-

Interpreter: In another side-

Daudi: - ini juga dilakukan pendekatan tokoh.

Interpreter: In another side engaged to personally-

Daudi: Jadi [00:32:00] nanti-

Interpreter: We also ask-

Daudi: - tokoh itu yang akan menyampaikan-

Interpreter: - the key person who will say what our mission,-

Daudi: - apa yang menjadi bagian dari kegiatan kita lakukan.

Interpreter: - what our mission of the program-

Daudi: Karena tentu sekali-

Interpreter: - to this people. Because-

Daudi: - tidak mudah memang untuk bagaimana mengajak-

Interpreter: Because-

Daudi: - orang-

Interpreter: - we-

Daudi: - untuk berpikir tentang bagaimana merubah satu kondisi.

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Interpreter: As we know, it's not easy to [00:32:30] change people in circumstanced
condition.

Daudi: Sehingga yang kita perankan adalah-

Interpreter: So this is our-

Daudi: - ada tokoh-tokoh kunci.

Interpreter: - role.

Daudi: Ada tokoh-tokoh kunci-

Interpreter: There are key person in the village-

Daudi: - yang itu mengfungsikan diri pada hal-hal yang tadi. Misalnya ada
masyarakat yang tidak mau,-

Interpreter: - that will give them [crosstalk]-

Daudi: - ada masyarakat yang menolak dan lain sebagainya.

Interpreter: - our speaker.

Daudi: Maka tokoh kunci inilah yang maju.

Interpreter: So, if they cannot be with SANTAI, we will not [00:33:00] involve them
personally, but this key person will speak up what SANTAI mission in the village.

Interviewer: Okay. So this is how you try to get the people on board who were not
on board initially. So you involve other people that have influences in the village, and
they will speak up for SANTAI and then how you try to involve. Okay, I think I have
got it.

Interpreter: Jadi kita itu tidak- Untuk orang-orang yang kontra sama kita, walaupun
kita [00:33:30] sudah bilang tapi mereka tetap nggak mau sama kita, kita akan
melibatkan orang-orang yang kayak Mas Daudi bilang tadi untuk berbicara
menyuarakan apa yang SANTAI inginkan lewat dia dan dia yang akan berbicara ke
orang-orang itu.

Interviewer: Okay. Can I ask you? So my main interest with the topic of child
marriage. I know that Santai has a different type of programs for child protection like
lobbying the government and stuff. But [00:34:00] one of the key areas, child
marriage as well, do you know when this focus came about in SANTAI?

Interpreter: Jadi, saya itu tahu- Pertama pertanyaannya apa- It's a main idea. Apa
ide besar dari pernikahan usia anak ini? Dan kapan when this idea came?

Interviewer: When the idea come to engage with child marriage as a program.
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Interpreter: Jadi, apa ide besar dari [00:34:30] perkawinan anak ini? Kan saya tahu
Santai bekerja di perlindungan anak. Yaitu perkawinan anak, pekerja anak, anak
pekerja migran. Tapi kapan ide ini datang, kapan ide ini muncul untuk melakukan
stop perkawinan anak ini?

Daudi: Sebetulnya isu persoalan [00:35:00] isu pernikahan usia anak ini sudah
lama kita gaungkan.

Interpreter: Actually this issues- We speak up for this issues for a long time.

Daudi: Saya juga lupa. Itu sudah lama kita gaungkan. Akan tetapi, pada masa itu-

Interpreter: But at the moment- [00:35:30]

Daudi: Yang pertama kita tidak punya semacam payung hukum yang bisa
mendukung-

Interpreter: For the first,-

Daudi: - program itu.

Interpreter: - we don't have any national rules, like law, national law that we can
stand under of it.

Daudi: Kemudian yang kedua,-

Interpreter: Secondly,-

Daudi: - tidak ada orang, belum banyak orang yang peduli tentang kasus
pernikahan anak.

Interpreter: - it's really [00:36:00] rare. Just several people care about this issues.

Daudi: Lalu kemudian yang ketiga,-

Interpreter: Furthermore,-

Daudi: - itu karena memang tidak ada-

Interpreter: - because-

Daudi: - lembaga mitra atau katakanlah funding yang-

Interpreter: - we don't have any funding or-

Daudi: - bisa mensupport program-

Interpreter: - that can support our programs-

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Daudi: - yang khusus berkaitan dengan [00:36:30] pernikahan usia anak.

Interpreter: - that specific in child marriage. So we have three points. SANTAI

already speaks over this issues for the long time-

Interviewer: A long time ago.

Interpreter: - but the challenge is for firstly,-

Interviewer: The law, rare-

Interpreter: - they do not have any law.

Interviewer: And money.

Daudi: Lalu kemudian berikutnya-

Interpreter: No funding.

Daudi: Lalu kemudian berikutnya-

Interpreter: There's next.

Daudi: - berbicara tentang pernikahan anak,-

Interpreter: If [00:37:00] we talk about child marriage,-

Daudi: - itu akan berhadapan dengan-

Interpreter: - we will face-

Daudi: - hukum agama.

Interpreter: -we will face the religion-

Daudi: Lalu kemudian ada-

Interpreter: - religion rules.

Daudi: - aturan atau awit-awit-

Interpreter: And also culture.

Daudi: - atau biasa disebut dengan adat istiadat-

Interpreter: Traditional culture.

Daudi: - atau budaya.

Interviewer: Has it changed now that you have national regulations now?
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Interpreter: Apakah sekarang itu sudah berubah? Apakah sekarang sudah punya
regulasi untuk itu? [00:37:30]

Daudi: Alhamdulillah, sekarang itu sudah keluar undang-undang terbaru terkait

dengan pernikahan itu. Jadi 19,19.

Interpreter: Thankfully we have a new regulation, regulation number 16 in 2019

about marriage.

Daudi: Dan-

Interviewer: Sorry, go.

Daudi: Dan itu merupakan bagian dari hasil gerakan bersama di [00:38:00] tataran
nasional.

Interpreter: That's the result of together movement in the national level.

Daudi: Kalau-

Interpreter: Kita punya perlindungan, undang-undang perlindungan anak 2000-

Daudi: 2004, 2002.

Interpreter: And then, also SANTAI start- I think SANTAI feel brave to speak up for
this issue because there is a national [00:38:30] law about the child protection
published in 2002.

Interviewer: So you think, generally this is sort of what i've got from the child forum
now, right? Like child marriage is an issue but relatively small if you compare to other
issueS that children are facing in the community. I think in Sekotong Tengah, it was
like 25 couples of [00:39:00] 9,600 villagers. So, it's relatively small as an issue. Is
that true or am I wrong here?

Interpreter: Jadi kan dia itu baru mengerti sekarang forum anak itu kayak kemarin
katanya di Sekotong dari 9.645 penduduk hanya 25 pasangan yang menikah. Jadi
menurut saya, itu adalah hal yang [00:39:30] yang kecil. Apakah itu benar atau saya
yang salah mengerti?

Daudi: Itu kan yang tercatat.

Interpreter: That is the number in a range of five years. That is just a number that
can people find, even in the [00:40:00]

local goverment, they don't have any data.

Laura: Yes, so you don't know how many.

Interpreter: Yes, and also SANTAI get this data about five years, like a range of five
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years, because- so, SANTAI also doesn't know what did happen before five years.

Laura: Yes, but can you- do you know approximately like on Lombok as an island,
like how high- [00:40:30] how many girl did you say are being married under-18?

Interpreter: Jadi berapa- apakah Mas Daudi tahu kira-kira seberapa tinggikah
pernikahan usia anak itu di pulau Lombok itu sendiri?

Daudi: Kalau umumnya di pulau Lombok-

Interpreter: Generally in Lombok Island,-

Daudi: - kenapa kemudian Gubernur itu mengeluarkan Surat Edaran,-

Interpreter: - why does the Region-

Daudi: - itu karena menyadari betul terdapat banyak sekali-

Interpreter: - give like publish [00:41:00] -

Daudi: - anak-anak yang menikah di usia anak.

Interpreter: How to say Surat Edaran, like a paper.

Daudi: Surat, apa itu surat.

Interpreter: Surat Edaran, it's not SK, decree. If you want your- I will explain
because I forgot how to say it. If you want your [00:41:30] students do something
and you cannot attend the class, you will get a paper. What do you call it this paper?

Laura: The assignment.

Interpreter: Not the assignment that you have to do. This paper says you have to do
this. That's assignment?

Laura: Yes, it's an assignment. I'll give my student an assignment they have to
complete.

Interpreter: Something like that but I think it's not called assignment. [00:42:00]

Laura: Okay.

Interpreter: The Region publish this paper, so we have to follow this paper like small
rule, like a local law. We can state as local law, but not in formal way.

Laura: Okay.

Interpreter: You can get it?

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19
Laura: But how that related to child marriage, right?

Interpreter: That's why, I just explained about this paper because Mas [00:42:30], I
don't know how to say in English.

Laura: Okay.

Interpreter: The Region's paper, I cannot say that, okay?

Laura: Okay.

Interpreter: Yes, generally the Region of West Lombok publish this paper because-,
karena apa?

Daudi: Karena pemerintah menyadari betul bahwa-

Interpreter: Because the government really-

Daudi: - terdapat banyak sekali anak-anak menikah yang di usia anak.

Interpreter: Because the government really knew much that there are many
[00:43:00] people marriage in the child age. That's why the Region of West Lombok
publishes this paper.

Laura: Okay, they published the paper that looks at the number.

Interpreter: Looks of- reduce child marriage. This paper said reduce the child
marriage, stop child marriage.

Laura: Okay, but how-

Interpreter: But they don't know approximately the number of child marriage.

Laura: But you must know like [00:43:30] just approximately like-

Interpreter: I think more than one hundred seven, one hundred thousand, one
hundred seven thousand, one thousand seven. I think is more than this case, I don't
know.

Laura: An entire of Lombok? That's very small like you have like [00:44:00] 3.5
million people,-

Interpreter: Yes.

Laura: - right, on Lombok?

Interpreter: But we don't know range-

Laura: This is like zero point zero, zero, zero such.

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Interpreter: But for this, we don't know range their time. I think the new one the
published of the Government in 2019 because this number in 2018 or [00:44:30] '19.

Laura: For the entire island of Lombok?

Interpreter: No, for this in Mataram.

Laura: Okay.

Interpreter: In Mataram.

Laura: So, you don't have any data and have no idea-

Interpreter: About all of-

Laura: - about their data of Lombok?

Interpreter: Yes.

Laura: Okay.

Interpreter: Because this is like the culture.

Laura: I know it right. So, the difficulty is near, right? You can't assess like problem if
you don't know what the problem is. [00:45:00]

Interpreter: Yes.

Laura: [giggles] But we can look out the data later that you've collected because
you've collected the data on the child's rights.

Interpreter: Yes, just the four, five years. You know even my mom she married in
the child age, eighteen. But, then no one taken data of it.

Laura: Yes.

Interpreter: And also my aunt and my-

Laura: Because of [00:45:30] , so I read the UNICEF' report on Lombok and they
said that around 30% of women are married under 18 on Lombok. That's a lot. That's
like one in every three.

Interpreter: But we don't have any data about that.

Laura: Yes, so that the data that [unintelligible 00:45:47] .

Interpreter: We have no idea.

[laughter]
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21
Laura: Yes, but I open up to you if I can find it.

Interpreter: Jadi dia bilang, Laura bilang apakah tidak punya gambaran seberapa
[00:46:00] kira-kira kita tahu sebelum program ini jalan, seberapa kira-kira persen
orang yang menikah di usia anak? Tapi, walaupun pemerintah daerah sendiri juga
tidak punya data soal ini untuk keseluruhan Pulau Lombok. Terus Dita bilang,
mungkin segini untuk data terbaru di tahun 2018 atau 2019, tapi untuk tidak di
seluruh Lombok, hanya untuk mungkin sekitaran Mataram. Terus dia bilang, oke, dia
bilang begitu. Jadi, [00:46:30] kita harus punya, apa namanya, harus punya paling
tidak perkiraan data seberapa besar persoalan ini berpengaruh di Lombok untuk
bisa melihat seberapa progress kita juga dalam bekerja. Jadi, kita tidak bisa tidak
menggunakan data sebelum dan sesudah. Dan saya mendapatkan data di UNICEF
untuk seluruh pulau Lombok, perempuan yang menikah di bawah umur 18.
[00:47:00] How much?

Laura: They said-

Interpreter: Sixteen?

Laura: Plan International said that 38%.

Interpreter: Thirty eight.

Laura: Then another UNICEF's study that's 30%

Interpreter: Di UNICEF bilang 30% anak-anak yang seluruh pulau Lombok menikah
di usia anak. Jadi mungkin nanti dia akan mencari lebih tahu data itu, dan akan
membantu SANTAI untuk-

Laura: Yes, I think they did survey. They went to different regions [00:47:30] in
Lombok and they asked like how many people and this is how they approximated the
number. They don't calculate every one and I'm still in the dark.

Interpreter: Jadi mungkin di Plan International, dia bilang 38% orang-orang itu
menikah di usia anak. Jadi mungkin dia mengambil 100 orang dan menanyakan 100
orang ini berapa yang menikah di usia anak, dan mereka langsung
mengkalkulasinya. Tetapi, tidak melibatkan seluruh [00:48:00] semua orang yang
ada di Lombok, karena itu sangat susah.

Laura: Okay. What like, really last question for you- two more questions. [chuckles]
What are you proud of that SANTAI has accomplished over the last years and what
was the challenge? That's the questions.

Interpreter: Apa yang Mas Daudi banggakan, what-

Laura: What are you proud of? So, what's the positive [00:48:30] that SANTAI has
accomplished over the last years and what is something that you would say it's still
the challenge, that you're struggling with?
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Interpreter: Apa yang, apa yang Mas Daudi bilang bisa dikatakan sebagai
kebanggaan atau sesuatu hal yang positif dari SANTAI di beberapa tahun yang lalu?
Apa tantangan-tantangan yang masih terjadi saat ini?

Daudi: Ya, hal yang paling membanggakan tentu-

Interpreter: I can say that I'm proud-

Daudi: - paling tidak dengan ada SANTAI [00:49:00] ada di Pulau Lombok, -

Interpreter: - SANTAI exists in Lombok-

Daudi: - itu mampu membantu masyarakat di pelosok, -

Interpreter: - island and how to-

Daudi: - karena banyak sekali-

Interpreter: - can help, can, apa?-

Daudi: Ya, tidak tahu. [laughs]

Interpreter: - marginal people, okay? [laughs]

Daudi: Karena sebetulnya Pemerintah belum serius dalam menangani [00:49:30]

persoalan-persoalan sosial.

Interpreter: Because local government don't know how to handle social issues.

Laura: Yes.

Daudi: Salah satu contohnya kasus pernikahan anak,-

Interpreter: For instance,-

Daudi: - itu yang sering dipotret adalah anak-anak yang ada di tengah kota.

Interpreter: - child marriage issue, they always cap- like takes the picture in the
children in the big cities like Mataram city.

Laura: [00:50:00] Ya, kayak-

Interpreter: They just publish what happened in Mataram.

Laura: Mataram and not the other. Okay.

Daudi: Tapi mereka tidak mau melihat bagaimana situasi dan kondisi yang ada di
pelosok.

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23
Interpreter: They did't considere about this migrant people and-

Laura: Migrant traffic there.

Daudi: Lalu kemudian dari gerakan yang SANTAI sudah lakukan selama ini, banyak
hasil-hasil [00:50:30] kerjaannya SANTAI itu dijadikan sebagai rujukan satu program
pemerintah.

Interpreter: And from this movement that SANTAI did, we can say that all of Santai
is, like Santai result, people will recommend what Santai did to the government.

Laura: Okay.

Daudi: Kemudian di samping itu juga hasil kerjanya Santai itu sekarang ada banyak
anak-anak muda yang di pelosok itu bisa terekspos dan mereka bisa berkarya.

Interpreter: In another range the result of SANTAI. in the results of SANTAI

[00:51:00] activities for youths in a small area, in small village, they can improve
their personality and people in local government also can see this guy can be
engaged with the local government.

Laura: Yeah.

Interpreter: The local government can recruit this guy as a staff in Mataram.

Laura: Yeah.

Interpreter: Like that.

Daudi: Apa pertanyaan yang kedua tadi?

Interpreter: Apa? [00:51:30] Apa?

Daudi: Ini kan dia ingin membanggakan.

Interpreter: Hambatan. Hambatan. What's the challenges?

Daudi: Hambatan banyak sekali tentu.

Interpreter: I still have many challenges, still.

Daudi: Salah satunya kalau ada isu pernikahan usia anak, itu kita masih dibenturkan
pada persoalan [00:52:00] agama, lalu kemudian kita dibenturkan pada persoalan
adat budaya. Lalu hambatan yang berikutnya, yang pasti Pemerintah itu belum
terlalu serius menanggapi persoalan kasus pernikahan usia anak, [00:52:30]
meskipun sudah ada Undang-undang terbaru yang menerapkan tentang usia 19-19.
Tetapi pada kondisi atau kenyataannya sampai sekarang itu masih ada kecolongan-
kecolongan. Ada kasus anak-anak yang menikah, dari sekolah lalu kemudian
diberikan izin dan lain sebagainya.
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24
Interpreter: One of them is- One of them, in child marriage issues, we still face
religion rule, wrong rule, and also tradition culture problem. And another challenge is
for sure I can say local government not really serious to handle this issues even
though we already have national law of marriage. Because in the fact , in the reality,
we can still say that the child marriage still exist even we have a new rule. [00:53:00]
This new rule said, "A child, person, forbid, is like they're not allowed a
personmarried under 18." But in fact, in reality we still can say--we can see many the
girl married under 18 until right now.

Laura: Yes.

Interpreter: That's why i said the local government not really serious to handle this
issue.

Laura: [00:53:30] We have the problem, it's a negative. What is your future vision
for SANTAI? Like what do you think Santai going to move in the next 5 years?

Interpreter: Jadi, apa yang Mas Daudi lihat SANTAI bisa- What is the next future of
SANTAI in five years? Apa yang Mas Daudi lihat untuk SANTAI lima tahun ke
depan? [00:54:00] Jadi kayak yang- Is it personal for Mas Daudi?

Laura: Yeah. It's personal. Yeah

Interpreter: Apa yang Mas Daudi pikirkan secara personal untuk SANTAI
kedepannya? Lima tahun ke depan? Apakah Santai akan ada perubahan untuk
pindah ke isu lain atau program lain ke lima tahun ke depan?

Daudi: Baik. Berbicara isu sosial itu antara satu persoalan dan [00:54:30] persoalan
yang lain itu dia berkaitan.

Interpreter: If we talk about social issues, one issue to another issue is always-
Apa? Berkaitan?

Daudi: Ya. Berhubungan lah.

Interpreter: [laughs] What you said. it's one in my head.

Daudi: [laughs]

Laura: Connected.

Interpreter: Connected. Yes, it's connected. One [00:55:00] issue to another issue
is always connected. Selalu berhubungan?

Daudi: Ya. Misalnya, kasus pernikahan anak akan berhubungan pada anak-anak
yang putus sekolah.

Interpreter: Such as, child marriage cases possible connected with the children who
stopped school.
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25
Daudi: Anak-anak tidak mendapatkan pelayanan administrasi kependudukan secara
wajar. Anak-anak tidak mendapatkan pelayanan kesehatan yang memadai.

Interpreter: Children also will not get public service--card public service [00:55:30]
properly.

Laura: Yes.

Daudi: Peluang pekerjaan yang cukup rumit. Kemudian penyalahgunaan narkoba.

Interpreter: And administration like I talk about birth certificate and also about the
job opportunity, about narkoba. Narkoba how we say this narkoba? addictive?

Daudi: Narkotik, adiktif.

Interpreter: Say drug. [00:56:00] Apa lagi?

Daudi: Ya. Itu.

Interpreter: And unemployment.

Laura: That's a lot of things to take care of. [laughs]

Interpreter: Jadi banyak sekali hal yang harus dipedulikan untuk masa depan.

Laura: Okay. Thank you so much for all of your information.

Interpreter: Terima kasih banyak untuk semua informasinya. Laura, I'm sorry.
[laughs]

Laura: [crosstalk] [00:56:30] chance again. This was really good.

Interpreter: I don't know why this--why all of the words go out of my head.

Laura: Okay. don't worry about that. i just found another study actually of someone--
what id I call it-- The UN Agency for Child Protection, they actually collect [00:57:00]
the data on Lombok marriage, then they said, "East 41-56 %, [unintelliglible
00:57:06] , Lombok Barat 38%, North 36% and Mataram 26%.

Interpreter: Oh. Yes. That's because connected about their migrant. That's a very-

Laura: Yes. [00:57:30] Anyway, now they have your term. Okay. Terima kasih.

Interpreter: Terima kasih Mas Daudi.

Daudi: Ngomong-ngomong bajunya bagus nih.

Interpreter: Nggak lah.

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26
Laura: [laughs]

Interpreter: So, you will interview another one?

Laura: Can we? Is there any way that we can go the data and I can do the interview
to looking for the data with someone?

Interpreter: [unintelligible 00:57:52]

Laura: Okay.

[00:58:00]

[background conversation]

[00:58:30]

[00:58:31] [END OF AUDIO]

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