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ODUDUWA REVISITED : The Story of Ooni

Okunade Sijuwade, Olubuse II

August 4, 2015

This interview was conducted by Dr Yemi

Ogunbiyi and Gbenga Adefaye in 2009
when Oba Okunade Sijuade clocked 80
years.

The story is simple enough and can bear

endless repetition. In the beginning
Olodumare created the universe. Then, He TOoni of Ife: Oba Okunade Sijuwade, Olubuse 11
decided that Orunmila should complete the
work of creation. But Orunmila was a great
lover of palm wine. One day, he drank one keg too many and his richly endowed
creative hands became wobbly. So wobbly were his hands that instead of creating perfect
human beings as directed by Olodumare, he created imperfect humans, among them,
the deaf, the blind, the hunched-backed and even albinos (or depending on
interpretation, ‘white folks’!). In grave disappointment, Olodumare appointed
Oduduwa to complete Orunmila’s unfinished tasks. And what did Oduduwa do? He
descended from heaven in chains and landed in a place called Ile-Ife, where he
proceeded to create the first perfect human beings! The survivor of that progenitor of
human-kind is none other than the incumbent occupier of the throne of the Source of
all humankind, Oba Okunade Sijuwade, Olubuse II, the Ooni of Ife!

What to take away from the details of this account depends, naturally, where you are
coming from! If like that famous German ethnologist, Leo Frobenius, who proved
scientifically from the evidence of archeological potsherds that Ile-Ife was a primordial
settlement of sorts, complete with megalith builders and sacred kings, then you might be
tempted to take the Oduduwa story, intriguing as it may seem, a little bit more
seriously!! But, if like me, you are an involuntary believer in Yoruba mytho-ethnic
history as handed down by our ancestral forbears, who had no immediate need for, or of
scientific proof, and you are also willing to suspend your disbelief, then the Oduduwa
story will fall in place handsomely and make perfect sense!!! Either way, Oba Okunade
Sijuwade, the Olubuse II, in his full splendour, conjures images that could match any
interpretation of a mystical, primordial folklore of ancient Yoruba history.

Born on New Year’s Day in Ile-Ife in 1930 to Prince Adereti and Madam Emilia
Ifasesin Sijuwade, the Kabiyesi spent his early years in Abeokuta, partly under the
tutelage of another legend, the famous Reverend Israel Oludotun Ransome-Kuti at the
Abeokuta Grammar School, between 1944 and 1947. His admission number into the
Grammar School in 1944 was 2578! In 1947, the Sijuwade family relocated to Ile-Ife,
where the future king completed his high school at the famous Oduduwa College. After
Oduduwa College, a short tutelage under his father and a two-year stint at the Tribune
newspapers in Ibadan, Kabiyesi Sijuwade went on to study Business Management at
Northampton College in the United Kingdom. After he finished his studies, he was
employed by the Leventis Company.

At the company, he received further training before being transferred to the Leventis
Motors, where at a relatively young age of 30, he rose to become, perhaps, the
company’s first Nigerian Manager. That marked the beginning of the future
king’s acquisition of wealth, power, influence, clout and fame, factors which, viewed
from any point, must come into play in any objective assessment of Ooni Okunade
Sijuwade.
His own father, Prince Adereti, a wealthy cocoa merchant, who had a thriving business
in today’s Iju and Alagbado in Lagos/Ogun States, and who died at barely 54 on the
11th of May 1949, never became Ooni. But it was his grandfather, Ooni Adenekan
Olubuse I, who reigned as the 47th Ooni between 1894 and 1910, ahead of Ooni
Ademiluyi and Ooni Sir Adesoji Aderemi (in that order) and became, from all accounts,
the first ‘modern’ Ooni of Ife.

For instance, Ooni Olubuse I was the first Ooni to have ever travelled out of Ile-Ife!
The trip was so significant that it was the subject of a 1903 Colonial Government
Gazette of the same year. Apparently, Ooni Olubuse had been invited by the then
Governor of Lagos, Sir W. MacGregor, to adjudicate in a festering dispute between
the Akarigbo of Remo and the Elepe of Epe in Sagamu as to whether the Elepe was
entitled, by right, to the wearing of a beaded crown, as Oba.

That unprecedented journey to Lagos, according to the gazette, caused a stir in all of
Yorubaland, because, as a mark of respect to the Ooni, all Obas and princes,
momentarily vacated their thrones throughout the period of the Ooni’s sojourn in
Lagos! When the Ooni finally arrived in Lagos, transported in his hammock, under a
flutter of colourful, giant, royal umbrellas, with his retinue of courtiers in toe, he was a
sight to behold. And when he finally gave his verdict, presumably, through an
interpreter, he had his back to the colonial Governor, since no mortal, not even the
representative of the English monarch, could behold his face!!!

Without question, Oba Okunade Sijuwade, it seems, inherited some of the flamboyance
of his grandfather. But it goes much more than that. As the distinguished late historian,
Professor Saburi Biobaku once said, Ooni Sijuwade’s enduring legacy might well be
in his promotion of peace and concord in Yoruba land and his endless effort to link the
Yorubas of the diaspora with their African roots. An affable and pleasant being, his
capacity for generosity is said to be prodigious. Similarly, his capacity to build bridges
across ethnic, cultural and continental divides would do any seasoned diplomat proud.
Yet, he comes across, in a rather strange way, as a man of complex opposites. For while
he exudes unforced regal charm, charisma, condour and even opulence, there is, also
imbibed in him such attributes as humility, kindness, prudence and an over-bearing
gentleness that is borne of contentment. His fierce protection and defence of Yoruba
traditional religion and world-view jar sharply with the image of a widely travelled man
who has also imbibed the finest examples of western dispositions of living and culture.

His long 29-year reign as Ooni has not been, as the following interview will show,
without its challenges. Indeed, some people have argued that, for all his charm and
warmth, the Ooni’s grasp of the complexities of contemporary Nigerian political
realities may not be as crisp as it should be. While that, may be true in one or two cases,
it is also fair to admit that the final resolution of the Modakeke crisis, for instance, is a
testimony to his political skills and brilliance. And the fact that in 2005, he rejected the
gift of a custom-made mercedes benz car from the four local government councils in Ile-
Ife, ordering instead, that the car be sold and its proceeds used to augment the
council’s poverty alleviation budget, bears testimony to considerable sensitivity to
contemporary realities. There are other details that are too many to be recalled here.

Kabiyesi Ooni is the first to admit that he is not infallible. Obviously, with the benefit of
hindsight, mistakes have been made. But in the end, I suspect that the verdict of history
will be kind to him. The one verdict of him that is as true today as I am sure it will be
true of him tomorrow is that he is a good man, an Ooni, who, among other things, has,
by his style, efforts and beliefs, changed forever, and for the better, how the institution of
Ooni-ship, indeed, Oba-ship, in Yorubaland is viewed. He will remain, for a very long
time to come, an important reference point in the discourse of Yoruba culture and
world-view. He is infinitely a trail blazer; none had ever been like him and as he
prospers in his reign, only the Almighty will tell if there will ever be one like him again.

Enough! Perhaps, we should just let Baba speak for himself. Obviously, Gbenga
Adefaye, Bisi Olatilo, Dare Fatube and I got more than we bargained for! He hardly
looked his age, even if he gently reminded us that while he may not look it, he felt 80!
The Ooni did not hold back and we have reproduced, almost verbatim, the thoughts and
the inner workings of the mind of one of the most colourful and flamboyant figures in
contemporary Nigerian history, Oba Okunade Sijuwade, Olubuse II, the 50th Ooni of
Ife, the true descendant of Oduduwa, the Inheritor and Custodian of the Source of
Yoruba culture and heritage, an accomplished businessman, an endowed leader of men,
father, husband and a remarkable being

-Yemi OGUNBIYI
The Omo-Olokun Adimula of Ife

Tell us about your childhood, we understand you were born in Abeokuta …?
Kabiyesi: (Cuts in). No, I was born in Ife.

What was growing up as child like?

Kabiyesi: I was born in Ile Ife, but at an early age, we were moved to Abeokuta to start our
education. Both at Mrs. Kuti’s class and Igbein elementary school and later at
Abeokuta Grammar School, before some of us moved back to Ife to attend Oduduwa
College. Some of us moved down to Lagos into different colleges. I started working with
my father, a few years later. Before then, I was invited to join the Nigerian Tribune. I
worked there for about three years before I left for the United Kingdom to study Business
Management. After a successful course, I joined the Leventis Group in Manchester.

Leventis Group organised two to three years of special training in different countries of the
world and also training in advanced management for us. They brought me back to Nigeria
in 1959 as one of their managers in charge of Leventis Motors in Ibadan. That’s
where I started in Ibadan.

When you went to work at Leventis, how old were you?

Kabiyesi: Maybe 29 or perhaps, 30.

And you were trained as a manager there?

Kabiyesi: Yes. I came back in 1959, I was transferred to Ibadan as a manager of Leventis
and that’s how I started life.

What about the Nigerian Tribune?

Kabiyesi: I was not a reporter! I was a manager at The Tribune in charge of business and
advertisement. I was not an ordinary reporter at The Tribune!! Having worked with my
parents, I had gained much experience and so, I was considered qualified to do any job on
a managerial status. But going into The Tribune was to know a bit about the world and to
be nearer to Chief Obafemi Awolowo and his family. That was why I went to The Nigeria
Tribune and I spent two to three years there. From there, I proceeded to London.

When you were at Leventis, those who remember you, recall your association with
cars…
Kabiyesi: (Cuts in) No, no, I was the first Nigerian Manager in Leventis and I was in
charge of Leventis Motors. I was also in charge of Western Nigeria and from there, a lot of
promotions came up.

Was that when you met Chief Gabriel

Igbinedion?
Kabiyesi: Chief Igbinedion was in the
Nigeria Police. He came to see me in Ibadan
and on one occasion, I invited him to join
Leventis. He (Igbinedion) resigned and came
to join Leventis.

We have asked this question because Chief Ooni of Ife, Oba Sijuwade Okunade
Igbinedion speaks highly of you. He says
that most of what he has become today is
because of your help. What did you do for him?
Kabiyesi: You want to be fair and straight forward in anything you do in life. He
(Igbinedion) was younger than me. I invited him, gave him an offer. He accepted it. He
was properly trained. He worked with me. He was transferred to Benin and he made
good of everything. He became fabulous, following the footsteps and the training we had
given him. He was very straight-forward with us.

But what exactly did you see in Chief Igbinedion?

Kabiyesi: It was hard work. If Igbinedion was not a hardworking man, he would not have
established what he has established. It is not easy. If you have a Cambridge degree and a
doctorate degree and you are not a hardworking man, you cannot do what Igbinedion has
done. It is not easy to be successful in life. Igbinedion is a very hard working man and God
is on his side.
Let us return briefly to Chief Awolowo. Tell us about him. What kind of man was he and
what was your relationship with him like?
Kabiyesi: Chief Awolowo’s ways were nearer those of Oduduwa. Chief Awolowo was
not a common man. If you were looking for a very straight forward man, you found that in
Chief Awolowo. He gave everybody an opportunity to express and explain himself.Â
Chief Awolowo was a very decent man. You don’t find two Awolowos at the same
time and that is the problem the Yorubas have as at today.

You also had a special relationship with Chief Awolowo, who loved you like his own
child. He was said to be biased towards you. What kind of relationship did you have with
him?
Kabiyesi: I was a very straight forward with Chief Awolowo and I followed the foot steps
of our own revered late father, Sir Adesoji Aderemi, the former Governor of the Western
region and Ooni of Ife because Pa Adesoji used to lecture us on Chief Awolowo. It will
interest you to know that when I was getting married in 1959, the first couple to get to the
Church was Papa and Mama Awolowo. In 1957, I was the one who arranged that the
Awolowos be guests of A.G Leventis in Manchester and Paris, during their constitutional
conference.
You know, Chief Awolowo was a man. You knew where you stood with him. He was not a
double dealer; he was unlike the men we have today. He came at a wrong time.

Sir Aderemi also loved you like Awolowo loved you and was also considered to be biased
towards you too! What kind of person was he?
Kabiyesi: Our own traditional father, Sir Adesoji Aderemi was like any child of God that
was straight forward and brilliant. The same thing applied to Chief Obafemi Awolowo.

If you are straight forward and brilliant, any father will like any child or daughter, for that
matter. If you are straight forward in your dealings, you can be creative. Those who have
made names in the world have used their brains to create a thousand and one things. If you
use brain for creative purposes, people will respect you. That was what happened in the
case of myself, Sir Aderemi and Pa Awolowo.

When did it occur to you that you could one day become the Ooni of Ife? At what
point did you think it was possible?
Kabiyesi: Before God and man, I did not think it would be possible and I had ruled it out
of my life that I will become the Ooni until Sir Aderemi Adesoji died. I had moved to
London because the headquarters of our company was in London. When Sir Aderemi died,
there was a telephone call from the late Chief M. A. Omisade who told me what had
happened at exactly 6a.m. By 10 in the morning, there was another telephone call that
came when I was in my car. I was then taking the late Alake, Oba Oyebade Lipede to the
airport because he was my guest in London. He was returning home. We were on our way
to the airport and it was my secretary who said that Chief Awolowo had been looking for
me and that he had given him the telephone number in the car.
So, when we got to the airport, I had reserved the VIP lounge for Oba

Lipede and just as I was about to sit down, a call came through and one of the hostesses
came to me and said, “Sir, there’s one Chief on the line who would like to speak to
you”. It was Chief Awolowo, who called to ask if I had heard what had happened at
home. And I said, “Yes”. He later said, “Prince, Ileya” (Home beckons)
“It’s time to return home”.

I replied, “No sir. I was not going home.” He repeated it a second time and I insisted
that I was not returning home. By that time, I was already making good money; spending
nine months in London and three months in Nigeria. He (Awolowo) said: “Prince, you
cannot quantify the position of Ooni in terms of money”. He said, that if there was a
problem in Nigeria, the leadership would call the Ooni and the Sultan; that whatever the
two of them decided was what they politicians would do.

“Ile ya.” I argued that, “Baba, you want to put me in trouble! You want me to
return to Ife where there is no infrastructure, where all the roads are bad.” He
(Awolowo) further said that whatever was required of Ile-Ife would be done; everything
that you need. “Prince, Ife is the natural capital of our race” Ile ya (Home beckons)!!

Chief Awolowo said that?

Kabiyesi: He (Awolowo) said there was no more leadership among the traditional rulers
since Oba Adesoji Aderemi passed on and that I had to return home. Awolowo forced me
to return otherwise, I didn’t want to come back.

But some people had also said that as a young man with lots of money, you lived like a
prince in his own right and played the role of a future Oba! People saw you as an Ooni-
in-waiting!!

Kabiyesi : That was on the lighter side for a young man with lots of money and a retinue
of friends carrying your bags! (Laughter) There was not much to that!!

As a young Prince, you were also close to other Princes, like Prince Adeyemi before he
became the Alaafin of Oyo and Alhaji Ado Bayero?
Kabiyesi:Â (Cuts in) No. I was close to Alhaji Ado Bayero and not Adeyemi the Alaafin.
Prince Adeyemi was brought to me by Chief Ashamu to help him ascend the throne. I had
never met him before that time, but I was told he was working as a Clerk at the Great
Nigeria Insurance company. They brought him (Adeyemi) for me to help because I was the
closest friend of the then Governor of the Western region, Governor Colonel Robert
Adeyinka Adebayo at that time. I did my best, not really for him (Adeyemi) but for
Ashamu, who was a friend that brought a young man for help.

So, it shows clearly that at a point, you were also close to the present Alaafin?
Kabiyesi: No, I was never close to him.

But you knew him?

Kabiyesi: They brought him to me; I met him once and I helped him. I was at his
installation because I was invited by the Governor. For ten years, I did not see him until
December 16, 1980 when I was appointed as Chairman of the traditional rulers in Oyo
State by the late Chief Bola Ige; I met him again. We were never friends because he is
junior to me.

What’s your relationship with him today?

Kabiyesi : With me there is no problem. If he (Alaafin) comes in here today, I will
entertain him. I don’t know what he thinks about me, but here, every traditional ruler
is welcome.

There have been happy moments for you and sad moments, such as when your first wife
died. Tell us about Mama Tokunbo. What kind of woman was she?
Kabiyesi: She was my mother. She was more than a diamond. She was more than a
diamond to me. So, whatever adjective you can give your mother is what you can give to
Mama Tokunbo. You see, she was not an ordinary woman and by her training as the
daughter of a Bishop, she had everything.

You have also had some difficult moments in your life. One of them was when you were
suspended by the Buhari/Idiagbon administration along with your brother and friend,
the Emir of Kano. What actually happened?
Kabiyesi: It’s an interesting story. The Emir of Kano had been thinking of going to the
second holiest Mosque for a very long time. And every year, I go to Israel twice for
prayers on Mount Zion. My first visit to Mount Zion was in 1962 and I had been going
twice a year to pray.

So, on this occasion, we decided, first of all, to spend two days in Athens and Cyprus with
the Leventis family and from there, to Israel. Unfortunately for the Emir of Kano, he spent
only 24 hours because he went to the second holiest mosque for prayers and he left me to
go to another holy ground, somewhere in Switzerland. I was there for two, may be, three
days. When I flew to London, I think it was Alhaji Odunewu (Allah De) who rang me
from Lagos that it was on the television that we went to Israel without informing the
Federal government.

As God would have it, I was planning to have a big farm and I had a friend, a German, that
had a big farm in Germany. But God works in mysterious ways. When I got home in
London, I met a letter from the then Colonel Oladayo Popoola, the Governor, asking me to
attend a ceremony being organised by the then Colonel Nwachukwu, then the Governor of
Imo State, establishing the Council of Traditional rulers and that the Chairman to be
appointed in Imo, insisted that he wanted the Ooni of Ife to be there.

So, Nwachukwu got in touch with Popoola and Popoola sent a message to me in London
saying: “Papa, please honour this invitation”. That was why I did not go to
Germany. My not going to Germany saved me from further embarrassment, which I will
explain to you presently.

So, seeing the Governor’s letter, I jumped into the plane and I came home to attend the
ceremony. The late Professor Biobaku, Dr. Otolorin and a few others, joined me here and
we went to Imo state. When we came back, the problem started. Just one fine morning at
6.00 a.m., my receptionist told me that Colonel Popoola was at the reception. Anyway, the
Governor came and told me what had happened in Ibadan. He asked me how soon I could
get to Ibadan because they had given him a certain instruction from Dodon Barracks. I was
in Ibadan at 8:30am. I was to see the Governor by 9.00 a.m. and I was leaving my home,
the Governor called me and said: “Baba, don’t come here, I have an unexpected
guest”. At 9:30 a.m., he rang me. I went there and they brought the letter of
suspension by the Secretary to the Government, who did not even know what had
happened earlier in the day.

I read the suspension letter and I told the Governor, this was alien to Yoruba land because
nobody can suspend the Ooni. So, I asked the Saarun (traditional aide-de-camp) to sign for
the letter and we left.

That was instructive because history would ask whether the Ooni was blind folded to
commit an abomination of signing for a suspension letter!

Three days after that incident, somebody from Dodan Barracks came to see me. The
Director General from SSS sent a senior staff here to collect my passport from me and I
gave them the two passports that I had – diplomatic and ordinary. The third day, he came
back, and said: ”Sir, in our record, you have another passport”. That was the one I
took 40 to 50 years ago! So, I wrote to my financial director in Lagos to look into my files
for my other passport and hand it over to the Director General of the SSS, which he did.

So, after four weeks, somebody came in from Dodan Barracks and said: “Sir, we are
sorry for what we’ve done”. Apparently, some people told a big lie against me
and the Emir of Kano. It was the Alaafin, who went to Abiola to sell to Abiola that I went
to Israel and that I took the Emir of Kano to Israel as a camouflage and that I had earlier
gone to Germany to recruit some killers and that I had taken them to the MOSSAD in
Israel, to be trained specially and to be brought back to Nigeria to wrestle power from
Buhari for Awolowo!! That’s why we were suspended.

Who told the story? Was it MKO Abiola?

Kabiyesi: No, it was someone who came from Dodon Barracks. They sold the dummy to
Abiola; Abiola sold it to Babangida and Babangida sold it to Dodan Barracks. How did
this come out? They were looking for a German visa in the two passports that I gave them.
He told them that I went to Germany to recruit! So, there was no visa in the two passports,
but they said Ooni is a clever man. He must have used the ordinary passport. That was
why they requested for the ordinary passport. Now, when they got the ordinary passport
and they saw that it has not been used for 30 years, they knew the plot was meant to bring
the Ooni down. That’s what happened.

What’s your relationship with Buhari now?

Kabiyesi: Cordial. Buhari was here, when he was campaigning, I received him and I even
gave him a gift because we leave everything to God.

You mentioned Chief MKO Abiola, what was your relationship with him? Because there
are those who say that you did not support the June 12 cause in relation to Abiola?
Kabiyesi: You see, it’s a long story. Abiola had been coming to greet me before I
became Ooni. I used to give Abiola business to do. Abiola was the closest friend of my late
younger brother, Dapo. So Abiola was a younger brother to me. Awolowo was above
Abiola. Abiola was one of those who did not allow Awolowo to reach his goal and that is
partly why we are suffering today.

That is why Yorubas are suffering today. If Awolowo had made it to being the president of
this country, this country would have been great. Abiola had been planning to be president
for 20 years.

I believe so much in your ability but I don’t believe in your destroying anybody.
Whether I believe in June 12 or not, I donated and gave Abiola money up to four times. In
my house in London, Abiola was with me up to three times. I knew Abiola very well and
he was very close to me.

After June 12, the traditional rulers visited the Federal government and when they came
out, you spoke on their behalf. You said June 12 was gone and that the people, in the
context of a possible re-run of the elections, should go out and participate. Can you tell
us what happened?
Kabiyesi: There was nothing like that. It was July 26, 1993. There was a meeting in Abuja
and my phone rang. We were staying in Nicon Hotel; it was the Awujale who said he was
on his way. By 9:30p.m, the door opened and it was the Awujale, followed by Alaafin and
the late Oba of Lagos, Adeyinka Oyekan. They sat down. They asked me what was going
to happen tomorrow. I said we had been invited by the government, but that we could play
a fast one on them! Let’s tell them at the meeting tomorrow that, that as fathers of
Abiola, since he (Abiola) had won the elections and if there was no cogent reason why he
had not been appointed as the president, the Yoruba will break from the Nigerian union the
next day.

The Awujale said: “Alaye, you are going to say it because 70 per cent of Yoruba’s
problems are on the Ooni”! I replied and said, “It was the headache of the Federal
government and not mine. If I say it and I’m detained, tell them at home”!!

The meeting started and the President spoke for a few minutes. The former Sultan, Alhaji
Ibrahim Dasuki, spoke and then it was my turn to speak. I said, “ Mr. President, first
and foremost, by way of digression, when we were here in April, I told you exactly that in
my temple in Ife, I saw darkness descending on Nigeria and that you should take steps.

I said the next speaker after me on that day, was the Oba of Benin, who affirmed what I
said and yet, you did nothing. I said that darkness has now engulfed Nigeria.” That was
by way of digression. I said, “Abiola, who is our own son should have the mandate of
the people. He won the elections; you refused to appoint him. If there was no cogent
reason, then the Yorubas are no longer interested in the Nigerian union”. There were 30
traditional rulers there when I spoke and the whole place was dead in silence.

Everybody on that day spoke in my favour. They didn’t want secession; they
didn’t want the country to break-up. So, they were more or less on my side except one
traditional ruler from Imo State. He said: “Why don’t you allow the government do
whatever they think is right”. The Awujale was sitting opposite me. When he took the
microphone, he said: “Mr. President, you know I always disagree with the Ooni every
now and then, but on this occasion, I agree with Ooni a hundred per cent”! President
Babangida later took the microphone. He said gentlemen,” I’m the closest to
Abiola’s family and what I have done is for friendship’s sake”. He brought out
a file and said he has paid Abiola over $800 million for jobs done and those not done. The
whole place was dead silent.

Yet, I was not satisfied; I raised my hand and then Dasuki spoke in Yoruba to me to let the
matter die there. Still, I was not happy. After the meeting, as we stood up, about six Emirs
moved close to me and said: “Ooni, you are not going today. We will come to your
hotel room at 8p.m’. At that time, Uche Chukwumerije, who was then the Minister of
Information, moved nearer and said: “Your Highness, the press is waiting”. I
followed him out. When the press asked about the outcome of the meeting, I said the
president spoke sense, but that we were going back home because we had a mandate from
our people. When I got to my hotel, I met my aide who said I had been misquoted. I asked
my aide, “Why do you bother your head?’.

Some three Emirs later came to my hotel room and said: “Ooni, we saw you today
being very annoyed but the downfall of Abiola has nothing to do with us. Abiola was used
by the military and he is having problems with the military. Ooni, give us a Yoruba man
that can rule this country and the entire north will not raise any eyebrow”. That was
how the Yorubas came to rule. I further asked the Emirs if they could reconsider and they
said that the north had no hand in Abiola’s downfall but that I should present a Yoruba
man to rule the country.

There are two names you’ve mentioned repeatedly, Babangida and Obasanjo. What
is your relationship with Babangida today? First because during his last visit to Ile-Ife,
on his way out of office, just before Osun State was created, we were assured that Ife
would become the state capital at that time and of course, it never happened. What was
your relationship with Babangida then, and now?
We did not put our foot down that Ife had to be the state capital. I single handedly got
Osun State created. The Orogun Ila phoned me and said they were coming to see me.
When they came, they said they have done their best for this state, and that they wanted to
hand it over to me and I ask him what do you mean by that.

So, I phoned Babangida that I wanted to come and see him. He said that I should come and
I told him at that meeting that I wanted a state.

He said, “Kabiyesi, why do you want me to break Yorubaland any further?” I said,
“the one you gave us in Oyo State cannot even develop Ibadan, how much more other
towns surrounding Oyo State”.

He said, “Kabiyesi, that’s a very good point”, and he promised to help. But on
that occasion, I didn’t tell him that Ife had to be the capital. Few months later, Oba
Olashore was launching his book, though he was not an Oba then. Babaginda was the
chief guest of honour and I was the chairman, while Abiola was the chief launcher. Twenty
traditional rulers went to that launching led by Orogun of Ila, late Oba Ayeni. After the
ceremony, I told the president that the tradition rulers from Oyo would like to greet him.
As he (Babangida) stretched his hand to the Orogun of Ila, he said, “Mr. President,
where is our state”? He said that the Ooni has spoken to him and he would help at the
appropriate time. That’s how we got the state. But Abiola was working with Ataoja,
but God’s time is the best. So, I don’t blame Babangida for anything.

What kind of relationship did you have with Obasanjo?

Kabiyesi:You see Yorubas don’t understand Obasanjo. There are no two Obasanjos. If
God didn’t want Obasanjo, he would not have been there except you don’t believe
in God. He went to war and ended it in the 1970. He was the one who handed over, in
1979. There is something God wanted to tell us, there is nothing God cannot do. God
wanted to tell us something but we Yorubas didn’t understand him (God). If God
didn’t want Obasanjo, he would not have lasted one day on the seat, but you didn’t
understand. If you hate someone, you hate him for life. But God does not work like that.

It’s just like the case of President Yar’Adua who is now sick; so many are crying
as if he is dead. God creates, God takes. When you offend God, He is going to give you
200 opportunities to repent. That is what we learnt as Ooni during our training. There are
Bibles in my temple and if you are a Muslim, there are Muslim books which you can never
get to buy. There are ambitious people and there are over-ambitious people. Take for
example, a Baale in a big town who wants to be the biggest man and with plenty of money.
That’s the problem of the Yorubas! Yorubas are responsible for not allowing Awolowo
reach his goal. Some Yorubas told some Emirs that if Awolowo should become President,
he won’t allow some things to happen. That is Yoruba for you. Some people were
responsible for the disagreement between Awolowo and Akintola. Akintola was not
inherently a bad man.

What is the true Oduduwa story as it relates

to other parts of the country; for instance,
your relationship with the Oba of Benin
and the Olu of Warri. Could you please tell
us some more about the Oduduwa story?
Kabiyesi: The first Ooni was Oramiyan. He
owned the Benin and Oyo dynasty as a
warrior prince before he became the Ooni.
You are going to be invited here on January
2, 2010 on the launch of a book on Ife which
tells us that Ile Ife was created in 405 B.C as
one of the first five holy cities created by
God on Earth and the first in Africa. There is
no Alaafin without Ooni, there is no Oyo
without Ife. Orun Oba Ido, here in Ile-Ife
was the burial ground for Benin Obas, till
1916. The story the Oba of Benin is telling Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuade
now is not quite correct, because his late
father Oba Akenzua had a more detailed
story which he told the world the day we went to open the WATECO Motors branch in
Benin.

It is not yet time for me to tell him the real story. It was Apomu that Alaafin Aole attacked
in 1793 that led to the fall of Oyo Empire. Our problem is that small historians who are
seeking livelihood are trying to re-write history in a dangerous way. So we now have new
tales being peddled around.

Down memory lane, there have been some controversies in your private life. For
example, when your marriage with your wife was consummated, there was some
controversy with the Sodipo family. What was it about?
Kabiyesi: My father in-law said I didn’t take his permission before falling in love with
his daughter; that was all! But the daughter said she was over 27 years old and was in a
position to decide her own faith. That was all.

The Modakeke issue seems to have been resolved. Since then, some coronet Obas have
been crowned within Ife.

Kabiyesi: (Cuts in) Modakeke is Ife.

But the other crowns that have been given out since the Modakeke Oba was crowned,
was that part of the peace settlement?
Kabiyesi: No, it’s not part of any peace settlement. They (the obas within Ife) are
entitled to their crowns. Theirs were created by Oduduwa himself. We have Obalufe,
Obalaye, Obalorun who were all created by Oduduwa himself.

Did that included the Olu of Awolowo?

Kabiyesi: It was himself and the Oba of Modakeke that were promoted and we are
promoting more for peace and progress in Ife land. We are doing more on that. The
Obalufe belong to another class entirely.

Still on Ife, has the problem on farm land been finally resolved?
Kabiyesi: It is either you live with us or you don’t live with us. I own lands but I
don’t sell them.

Your life, from every indication has revolved round your love for Nigeria. Are you
satisfied with the state of the nation?
Kabiyesi: Nobody, whose sense is complete, will be satisfied with the position of the
country. But we have to blame ourselves. I give you this example; the president is sick,
some say he must die some say we must pray for him. Does that answer your question?
You have to be your brother’s keeper. This is not the country we all pray for. Until we
give it a serious thought, we still have to sit down. Whether you like it or not, there cannot
be a successful Nigeria without the traditional rulers. It’s not possible. You use them;
(traditional rulers) as fire brigade when there is election. After that, you put them in the
garage!! The traditional rulers of today are well educated. They are not like our forefathers
to whom you gave any money and then told to go and sit down. You cannot run this
country successfully without the traditional rulers. It’s not possible.

For the Yorubas, what’s the way forward?

Kabiyesi: We must all come together and find a solution to our problems. We are
all of the same mother. We must come together and find a way forward.

What, as the custodian of Yoruba culture, will be your special message to the
politicians?
Kabiyesi: All this rigmarole must come to an end. There must be an umbrella where all of
them can come together. You see, coming together does not mean they cannot go to
different parties. But it means to think of the race first. And in any party you are, what can
you bring back home is what is important. That is the only way you can do it. You play
politics with everything. This Governor leaves an office, whatever he has done, is going to
be set aside by another Governor coming in; the old system is destroyed. It is not done.
They (politicians) should learn from those who introduced politics into this great country.

They (politicians) are children of the same parents. They should come together and think
of our race first. Everywhere in Yoruba land is a village – no water, no light, and no good
roads, but everything is blamed on Obasanjo. It’s not right. You see everything that is
good abroad. But when you come back home, you can’t put it into practice or into use
or put it to use in the government you are serving. It’s not done.

Governor of Osun State should be able to go to the Governor of Lagos freely; the
Governor of Lagos should be able to go to the Governor of Ekiti freely. But it’s not so
because they are playing politics with the people.

You have gone round this country to talk to fellow traditional rulers including
prominent Yoruba sons about unity. Can you tell us the work the traditional institution
is doing to bring this country back to the path of glory.
Kabiyesi: Me, the Emir of Kano, the Obi of Onitsha have been everywhere but we have
not had much opportunity because we are not in the constitution. We are spending our own
money to do everything we are doing but we are doing a lot. We need the support of
government to do more.

But let us first of all put our house in order. Let’s get a forum where everybody will be
there, including Obasanjo and settle the Yoruba first and tell ourselves where we are going;
then our own areas will be developed like other areas. Sometimes, you say you don’t
want to be with the Federal government, but it is the Federal government that will give
you money.

Can you tell us more about some of your peace missions around Nigeria?
Kabiyesi: There was a time Ohaneze complained about marginalisation and wanted to pull
out of Nigeria in 2001. I had to attend their meeting in Enugu which started at 11p.m and
ended at 5.00 a.m. And it was settled that they were not pulling out. There was a meeting
in Kano with northern leaders, when they said they were pulling out. We held a meeting
and God answered our prayers.
There was a general meeting of 21 of us from each zone in Nigeria, which the traditional
rulers organised. We lodged them in Nicon Hilton in Abuja in 2001 to discuss amongst
themselves, so that Nigeria will not break into pieces. Ojukwu and Nwabueze led them
from the east; Solomon Lar and Paul Unongo led them from the middle-east; Maitama
Sule and somebody else, led from the north.

From our own area here, we had Abraham Adesanya, General Akinrinade, Ayo Adebanjo,
Olaniwun Ajayi and Justice Thompson. We had them converged into that hotel for three
days to discuss on how Nigeria will not break; and we spent N27million on expenses. It
was not known to Nigerians because we didn’t want to publish it. We’ve done so
much to keep Nigeria together, that’s why we are still one.

You are 80 years, yet you don’t look 80. I still see in you the flashes of the dashing
prince who used to set the place ablaze! (Laughter!). You don’t look 80. What is the
secret? (More Laughter!!).
Kabiyesi: But I feel 80! I may not look 80, I feel 80!! (Plenty of Laughter!!!) I sleep at
2.00 a.m; wake up at 6:32 a.m., I sleep for four hours every day.

For your age, you look very good…

Kabiyesi: (Cuts in) I don’t know about that!!! But thank you all the same!!!

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