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7700K Temperature - CPU PLL OC Subscribe

Voltage - Need an Intel response:

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idata 
Employee

‎03-11-2017 • 04:58 PM • 16,073 Views

First I'll list my specs, just so everything is known:

CPU: 7700K @ 5GHz w/ 1.328 vCore
MOBO: MSI Z270 Gaming Pro Carbon
GPU: 970 GTX (upgrading, soon).
MEM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200MHz
COOLING: Corsair H100i V2 w/ pre-applied thermal paste
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3051401 http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3051401
Ok, so firstly these are the only things I have changed in BIOS:
CPU Clock: 50 (5GHZ)
EIST: Disabled
Extreme Memory Profile: Enabled
CPU Core Voltage: 1.325 (1.328V displaying in BIOS) - http://i.imgur.com/3W2CL4z.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3W2CL4z.jpg
CPU SA Voltage: 1.200 (1.208V displaying in BIOS as shown in the image after Core Voltage) - This value was set to AUTO previously, and over 1.3V
CPU IO Voltage: 1.150 (1.160V displaying in BIOS as shown in the image after Core Voltage) - This value was set to AUTO previously, and over 1.3V
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Now - originally that is all I had changed, and my temps were a little too high for my liking though. Give Feedback
So I reached out for help on a different forum called overclock, and a user recommended I change this setting below:
CPU PLL OC Voltage - It was set to AUTO, and he told me to change it to 1.150. My motherboard says default is 1.2, and I can use anywhere from 0.6 to 1.5 (that's what it says on the "HELP" on the right
hand side).
After changing this setting, my temps dropped 10-15c. Now when gaming they only hit 65 maximum.
I was then told by two other users of the same forum that it is just the dts sensors reporting FALSE readings, or so they believe. Now, I find this strange as I can't imagine any bios setting would do such a
thing without ANY documentation anywhere on the internet (I've been looking all day and seeking as much help as possible).
Now, my overclock is stable, or at least it is stable right now. With these current settings, I only ran a few stresses, x264 for over an hour, no crashes, gaming all day with no crashes. Obviously it could crash
tomorrow, next week and so on but for now, we're good.
I am concerned however about these claims of it reporting FALSE temperatures since changing that setting off AUTO to 1.150.
Help would be very much appreciated, and/or some understanding of this setting. The only information I have found on it so far (which is old, and possibly false, also is here):
"CPU PLL Voltage Override (Overvoltage): What the Heck does it do? So I asked that question to an Intel Overclocking Engineer his explanation was roughly: We went through the BIOS settings trying to find
setting that if changed could help overclock our CPUs further. We came across this setting. Think of the CPU PLL voltage as a voltage that is provided to the CPU, but then "clipped" down to an approximate
voltage. No matter what that input is whether 1.3v or 1.9v it is clipped (hypothetically let's say 800mv after clipping (he didn't say how much)) that way other devices can use the PLL voltage and clip to what
they need. The CPU PLL Overvoltage allows for less clipping of that voltage. It can also reduce the lifespan of the CPU, but nothing noticeable."
"CPU PLL Voltage: Sets the voltage for the internal phase locked loop. The role of the PLL is to ensure that the output clock of the internal processor frequency synthesizers maintains phase coherency with
the reference clock signal (supplied from a clock generator located within the PCH). "
Thanks for any help;
Richard

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idata 
Employee

‎03-11-2017 • 05:08 PM • 7,506 Views

There has been two things done so far Top

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One guy has used a thermal gun - and seems to have confirmed that it seems fine when lowering the CPU PLL that the temperatures do drop, but a thermal gun in this scenario is not the height of accuracy.
Someone else did a write up here:
"I would like to go back to PLL OC voltage issues. I'm an owner of MSI Z270 M5 mainboard and 7700k CPU. I started a new thread some time ago (http://www.overclock.net/t/1621111/i7-7700k-temps-vs-
ram-speed-on-z270-mainboard http://www.overclock.net/t/1621111/i7-7700k-temps-vs-ram-speed-on-z270-mainboard) concerning this matter.
Anyway, now my CPU is working at 4.7Ghz with 1.25/1.26 core voltage, 3200Mhz memory (dual sticks, 1.344V), some manually set voltages, including PLL OC set at 1.17V.
It's completely stable, realbench doesn't go over 80/81 degrees.
I'm only sure that PLL OC voltage doesn't affect the CPU performance. The question is, as many stated, if the temperature sensors show fake readings.
I asked MSI if it's possible, describing my problem really precisely, after many days of waiting they responded and sent me an UEFI screenshot showing where I can change the value of PLL OC voltage. I
don't even know what to think about it. My dog would be probably more helpful than their support guys.
Today I tried to analyze the temps issue. Someone pointed out that even if PLL OC voltage is able to broke the CPU sensors readings, mainboard CPU temp sensor should be independent. Of course it's only
our guess, nobody knows for sure.
I've checked CPU cores temps & MB CPU temp for PLL OC voltage 1.13, 1.17 (my setting), 1.2 (default), 1.25 and 1.3 (it's auto value if memory is OCed to 3200Mhz) in load and idle scenarios (using prime95
26.6 small FFT).
Here's the load scenario chart:
http://i.imgur.com/SOcEEsd.png

and here's the idle scenario:

https://s7.postimg.org/ehu7k9v9n/Overclock_2.png

As you can see the temps really increased with higher PLL OC voltage value and you can see that the hottest core temperature lines up with mainboard "whole CPU" reading.
But do you see the pattern here? The lower the PLL OC voltage the higher is the difference in separate cores temperatures.
Check this out:
With 1.13V the difference between the coldest and hottest core is from 10 to 16 degrees (depending on load/idle scenario). The difference is getting smaller for higher PLL OC voltage. With 1.3V the
difference is 2 degrees on load and 1 degree on idle. ***?
For me it looks like lowering the PLL OC voltage can really break the readings, but not for the whole package. Or it's possible that the lower package temperature with lower PLL OC just results from lower
core temps. Anyway, again, it's just guessing.
What do you think about it?

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idata 
Employee
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‎03-11-2017 • 07:09 PM • 7,506 Views Top
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I have also now done my own testing:

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idata 
Employee

‎03-11-2017 • 10:58 PM • 7,506 Views

Video of this in action (in the OS, but same applies in bios):

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RAghd 
Beginner

‎03-17-2017 • 05:48 AM • 7,506 Views

Thnx for uploading a video for the matter.

May I ask what is the app you re using to change the PLL voltage? Cause I googled "voltage app" and nothing came on.
My MB: ASROCK Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K4
http://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/Fatal1ty%20Z170%20Gaming%20K4/

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 ssote 
New Contributor II

‎03-12-2017 • 08:47 PM • 7,506 Views

Here is the Intel datasheet on PLL. http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/core-technical-resources.html Intel® Core™ Processors Technical Resources

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idata 
Employee

‎03-12-2017 • 08:51 PM • 7,506 Views

I request you stop following me onto every site you find about this topic, you have shown a huge misunderstanding of anything computer related and I find it worrying how much you keep "guessing"
things; and provide no proof for any claims you have made either, wingman99.
Intel are the only people who can provide an insight here as to what is going on. I've opened up a support ticket with them so I don't have to read anymore of your nonsense.

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CCris2 
New Contributor II

‎03-14-2017 • 12:22 PM • 7,506 Views

Hi RitchieDrama ,
First of all I want to tell you that Intel does not encourage overclocking. From the data sheets the normal Vcc PLL voltage is 1.0V with tolerance of + - 5%. You can find it at page 119 here:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th-gen-core-family-desktop-s-processor-lines-datasheet-vol-1.html Datasheet, Vol. 1: 7th Gen Intel® Processor Family for S Platforms
Have a nice day.

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FGurr 
Beginner

‎03-23-2017 • 10:20 AM • 7,506 Views

According to the electrical specifications on page 113 of the document below:

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th-gen-core-family-desktop-s-processor-lines-datasheet-vol-1.html Datasheet, Vol. 1: 7th Gen Intel® Processor Family for S Platforms
VccPLL_OC power rail (which in the MSI Z270 M7 is set through the parameter CPU PLL OC Voltage) should be sourced from the VDDQ VR. The connection can be direct or through a load switch, depending
desired power optimization. In case of direct connection (VccPLL_OC is shorted to VDDQ, no load switch), platform should ensure VccST is ON (High) while VccPLL_OC is ON (High).
VDDQ is the DRAM Voltage, which explains why when CPU PLL OC Voltage is set to auto, it takes whatever value the DRAM Voltage parameter is set to (by default 1.20V).
Interestingly enough, according to MSI, any voltage starting at 1.31V is not "safe" for CPU PLL OC Voltage. That means that anytime we enable XMP, VccPLL_OC is set to a non-safe value.
Still no clue why we get that core temperature difference.

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idata 
Employee

‎03-28-2017 • 01:59 PM • 7,506 Views

Hello All,
Thank you to all the peer for the information provided.
RitchieDrama, I just wanted to let you know that Intel does not provide assistance for overclocking, so in this case the best thing is to wait for another community member to post similar experience or
get more feedback on a different overclocking forum. Maybe you could try with https://forums.anandtech.com/forums/cpus-and-overclocking.5/ CPUs and Overclocking - AnandTech Forums or
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/ EXTREME Overclocking Forums - Learn To Overclock Your PC Hardware. Like mentioned before, the normal Vcc PLL voltage can be found in the processors
datasheet.
Regards,
Amy.

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idata 
Employee
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‎03-28-2017 • 02:03 PM • 7,506 Views

Overclocking has nothing to do with it, Amy.

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idata 
Employee

‎03-29-2017 • 12:20 PM • 7,506 Views

RitchieDrama, I noticed that from your video that you are using a third-party software to change that value; have you tried getting in contact with their support in order to get more information
regarding it?
Regards,
Amy.

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idata 
Employee

‎03-29-2017 • 12:28 PM • 7,506 Views
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It is the MSI software, but it's the same as doing it in the BIOS. It's just easier to show the change, with that video.

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idata 
Employee

‎03-30-2017 • 03:21 PM • 7,506 Views

I just want to know; what did they say regarding that function? They should have a documentation that explains each function and their results from applying them.
Regards,
Amy.

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idata 
Employee

‎04-05-2017 • 09:04 AM • 7,506 Views

RitchieDrama, hope the MSI support was able to provide more information,
If you need further assistance let us know.
Regards,
Amy.

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idata 
Employee

‎04-11-2017 • 10:55 AM • 7,506 Views

reply above was to you, forgot to reply to you directly.

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idata 
Employee

‎04-12-2017 • 06:11 AM • 7,506 Views

RitchieDrama,
I just wanted to let you know that Intel is currently investigating the spiking behavior on certain Kaby Lake processors, at this stage the investigation is on going so no further details have been
provided yet. Soon we will have some updates that will be posted on the following thread; /thread/110728 https://communities.intel.com/thread/110728.

Regards,
Amy.

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idata 
Employee
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‎04-12-2017 • 08:56 AM • 7,506 Views
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Thanks for the responses, Amy.
Hopefully there will be some sort of solution soon or at least some information.

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MaryT_Intel 
Moderator

‎04-12-2017 • 09:26 AM • 7,506 Views

Hi RitchieDrama,
I am the Intel Support Community Manager and wanted to say thanks for your information on this. We are investigating reports of temp spikes on the 7700K. We don't have an answer yet as we are
still running experiments but we're taking it seriously and trying to replicate it. I'll post an announcement on this forum to that effect.
Thanks,
Mary T.
Support Community Manager

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idata 
Employee

‎04-17-2017 • 01:15 PM • 5,112 Views

This also happens on my i7 6700k! I am NOT overclocking it, but still get the temperature spikes. There is much evidence to show that de-lidding will decrease the temperature by 15 - 20 C, but most
people (myself included) don't want to delid and run the risk of permanently damaging the CPU and also voiding the warranty!

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idata 
Employee

‎04-18-2017 • 10:21 AM • 5,112 Views

Dave494, thank you for joining the thread.

I wanted to let you know that the current investigation is for Kaby Lake processors, and the Intel® Core™ i5-6600K Processor belongs to the Skylake family. At this stage we have not seen the spiking
behavior on Skylake which it makes me think that you may be dealing with a defective unit. I remember that you joined another thread and then I recommended to replace the unit since you basically
did all the possible troubleshooting in order to address this matter.
Regards,
Amy.

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