17/03/2024, 18:12 Part 5 Margins, expressions, and scores | No matter when the world might end – Hobo Nikkan

Nikkan Itoi Shinbun | Yuzuru Hanyu | …

It all started when Yuzuru Hanyu said he was a MOTHER 2 fan on a TV

program. This brought about the kind of discussion you only dream about.
Not in a cliche way, but really and truly an amazing thing. Last
December, Yuzuru Hanyu and Shigesato Itoi met in a studio in Sendai and
talked about all kinds of things for two hours. We’re pleased to be able to
bring you that discussion.

＞Yuzuru Hanyu’s Profile

This article is available in Japanese, English and Chinese.

＞ Japanese（日本語）

＞ Chinese（中文版） weibo／REDBOOK

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Prev Index Next

Boyhood／Mirror Neuron／Heaven and Earth／Mr. Saturn／

Ballet／Timeline／Homesick／Universe／Johnny Weir／

Reset／Tohoku Earthquake and Tsunami／Picasso／Sprain／

Parallel Universe／Heroic Sword and an Evil Sword／Produce／

Astro Boy／Music／Ness／Fifteen-year-old／

Romeo and Juliet／Goldfish／Nap／Athlete／Millennials／

Elder sister／A Beatles song, XXXterday／

Score／Vinyl／Death／Youngest child／

That／Hip hop／Mozart／Dilemma／Ice Show

Itoi When it comes to artistic expression rather than technique, how

do you see your own expression?

H a n yu I wonder... I’m not the best judge of myself, but it’s at least
important to me to leave some open space, some margins, for

people to think on their own.

Itoi Margins.

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H a n yu I think it’s probably the same deal with poetry and copywriting

and stuff. You put everything into it to express yourself, but it’s
also better to leave some margins there. That allows space for the

audience to envision something in their own mind, and that lets

you get the message across to them.

Itoi So it’s not that you have a complete performance from start to

finish, but that you’ve got a completed performance stored within

some kind of container.

H a n yu You could put it that way. It’s like a beautiful goldfish swimming

around in a clean tank. The goldfish itself is complete, but it’s a

question of what kind of water plants you install around your

goldfish. For example, each person sees things in a different way,

depending on their background and values. So if there aren’t

margins to allow for each person to insert themselves, they’ll just

kind of take what they see at face value, say “Yeah, got it,” and
that’s it.

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Itoi Maybe it won’t be much more than an external concept at that

point.

H a n yu Yeah.

Itoi It all comes together to form a landscape, random foreign objects

and white noise and all. So while you’re paying no heed to how

much the audience knows what you’re doing as you skate, from

the audience perspective, they’re watching the entire scene

before their eyes, including themselves as they sit in it. I’m sure

each person is seeing a different thing as they watch. That’s why

it’s different when you’re watching players from your own

country versus someone from another country.

H a n yu Yeah. For example, I had a program called “Heaven and Earth”

that I performed for my last season in a competition, and it’s

because Japanese people know about Uesugi Kenshin and Takeda

Shingen that they see my program the way they do. People

outside of Japan might wonder who Uesugi Kenshin is, but

they’re each seeing their own version of the scene as they watch

a performance by Yuzuru Hanyu. It’s fascinating to have a world

of expressions like that.

Itoi Like each person watching is adding something from their own

perspective.

H a n yu Yeah. And it’s important to consciously include those margins I

mentioned so that the viewer has room to use their imagination in

that deliberate space.

Itoi Ahh, so you’re setting up space for those margins without

knowing what’s going to be filled in there. In a way, you’re

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entering the rink with quite a magnificent scene around you.

When were you able to start doing things like making room for

those margins?

H a n yu I started to notice it gradually over time. I think the way to do

that in skating is probably the same concept as doing it for

watercolor paintings. Only the tools and the techniques are

different. With written works, a novel with in-depth expressions

might add some margins by including some sections more simply

worded. Copywriting, meanwhile, would involve a different

technique for adding margins since it’s only working with short

catchphrases. But the basic expressions and foundation of the

two are probably the same.

Itoi Yeah. Speaking of that blank space and range of expression, that

reminds me of something. The late composer Ryuichi Sakamoto

used to be holed up in his studio for hours, and one time I asked

him what he was doing. He said he was deciding on what sound

to use, so apparently he spent the most time of all just searching

for the kind of sound he wanted.

H a n yu Wow.

Itoi Not the melody, not the rhythm, but the sound itself he said was
the most difficult to figure out. It sounded just like you were

talking about earlier with those margins.

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H a n yu Yeah, it’s all about the quality and nature. If you’ve got
something written down, it’s going to come across entirely
differently if you’ve got it written by hand, versus the Mr. Saturn

font, versus a standard font.

Itoi It’s all about the sound.

H a n yu That’s right. And the nature of it.

Itoi Take a quadruple jump, for example. Any of them would have
you spinning in four circles, so maybe they’re the same from a

technical perspective, but each one is going to leave a different

impression.

H a n yu That’s exactly it. When it comes to technical points, the

standards for jumps are pretty black and white, so there’s a

tendency to focus pretty hard on jumps for the sake of getting a

high score. But if you go back to the basics, I think Johnny Weir,

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for example, has a very particular approach to his jumps in that

it’s all about his posture when he lands the jump. His landing

posture was based on ballet, and cultivating those fundamentals

allowed him to descend with such beautiful posture and maintain
his flow. That landing allowed him to express himself

continuously alongside the music without those jumps cutting his

performance into separate pieces. That’s probably the artistry that

Johnny was aiming for, and what I’d want to aim for as well. But
if you try to combine that technique with a truly difficult jump,
it’s hard to pull off. No matter how beautiful your landing is,

though, if you can’t make those difficult jumps, you’re not going
to get the points, and you’re not going to get in the rankings.

Itoi Oh, I see! So his ability isn’t necessarily expressed in his scores.
And there’s no leeway in the scores assigned to jumps.

H a n yu Right. There are strict standards set for points from jumps, and
none of that changes based on anyone’s personal values. But

when it comes to expressiveness, speed, depth of the pose, a

sense of happiness, and theatricality, that all depends on the

sensibilities and values of the viewer. So difficult jumps are

necessary as not to have those scores swayed by those external
values.

That’s the difficulty of competitive figure-skating. You can’t just

specialize solely in expression. In a way, I’m aiming to surpass
this environment where Johnny performed beautifully without

quadruple jumps while Plushenko fit three quadruple jumps into

a single performance and did quadruple-triple-triple jumps in a

single combination. I’d been chasing that during my most

competitive era, and I feel like it continues to this day.

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Itoi It seems like expression and scoring are at odds with each other,

and because they’re both crucial aspects of figure-skating, there’s

no easy answer. I’m sure you feel that, too.

H a n yu Yes. If I hadn’t known how unstable the scores were for

expression and things assigned by someone’s values, I probably

wouldn’t have been trying to master more difficult jumps. And

even if I had, I probably wouldn’t have been trying to do them
with such a high level of quality. I have a strong sense of my own

world that I want to express, but I also have a strong desire to

win through a performance that isn’t judged by someone’s

personal values, has a level of difficulty to it that’s very

straightforward, and has universal scoring. I think I’ve been able
to come as far as I have because I feel strongly in both directions.

Boyhood／Mirror Neuron／Heaven and Earth／Mr. Saturn／

Ballet／Timeline／Homesick／Universe／Johnny Weir／

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17/03/2024, 18:12 Part 5 Margins, expressions, and scores | No matter when the world might end – Hobo Nikkan Itoi Shinbun | Yuzuru Hanyu | …

Reset／Tohoku Earthquake and Tsunami／Picasso／Sprain／

Parallel Universe／Heroic Sword and an Evil Sword／Produce／

Astro Boy／Music／Ness／Fifteen-year-old／

Romeo and Juliet／Goldfish／Nap／Athlete／Millennials／

Elder sister／A Beatles song, XXXterday／

Score／Vinyl／Death／Youngest child／

That／Hip hop／Mozart／Dilemma／Ice Show

（To be continued）

2024-03-05-TUE

次へ

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Photography: Toru Yaguchi

Clothing: tk.TAKEO KIKUCHI

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