1

1 [| SUPREME
1 supreme COURT
court OF
oF THE
TE ciTy OF NEW
CITY OF YORK
NEW YORK
COUNTY OF
COUNTY OF NEW
NEW YORK:
YORK: PART
PART 59
59
2| -----------------------------------------X
2 --—————————— x
3 [|tse
3 PEOPLE OF
THE PEOPLE OF THE
THE STATE
STATE OF
OF NEW
NEW YORK
YORK :: INDICTMENT NO.
INDICTMENT NO.
4
4 :© 71543-2023
71543-2023

5
5 -against-
-against- :© CHARGE:
CHARGE:
FALSIFYING
FALSIFYING
6 [| DONALD
6 powaro J.
5. TRUMP,
RUMP, :: BUSINESS RECORDS
BUSINESS RECORDS
Defendant.
Defendant. 1ST DEGREE
1ST DEGREE
El
7 -----------------------------------------X
100 Centre
100 Centre Street
Street
8
8 New York, N.Y.
New York, N.Y. 10013
10013
May 23, 2023
May 23, 2023
9
9

0
10 fsovoras
H LE:
O N O R A B L E:

n
11 JUAN MERCHAN,
JUAN MERCHAN,
12
12 Justice of
Justice of the
the Supreme
Supreme Court.
Court.
13faerreEarances:
13 A P P E A R A N C E S:

14
14 FOR THE
FOR THE PEOPLE:
PEOPLE:
15
15 ALVIN BRAGG,
ALVIN BRAGG, JR.,
JR., DISTRICT
DISTRICT ATTOREY
ATTOREY
JOSHUA STEINGLASS,
JOSHUA STEINGLASS, ESQ.
ESQ.
16
16 CHRISTOPHER CONROY,
CHRISTOPHER CONROY, ESQ.
ESQ.
MATTHEW COLANGELO,
MATTHEW COLANGELO, ESQ.
ESQ.
17
17 SUSAN HOFFINGER,
SUSAN HOFFINGER, ESQ.
ESQ.
BECKY MANGOLD, ESQ,
BECKY MANGOLD, ESQ,
18
18

19
19 FOR THE
FOR THE DEFENDANT:
DEFENDANT:
20
20 SUSAN NECHELES,
SUSAN ESQ.
NECHELES, ESQ.
TODD BLANCHE,
TODD BLANCHE, ESQ.
ESQ.
21
21

22
22

23
23 YVONNE OVIEDO
YVONNE OVIEDO
SENIOR COURT
SENIOR COURT REPORTER
REPORTER
24
24

25
25

Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 2
2

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 THE SERGEANT:
THE SERGEANT: All rise. Court
All rise. Court is
is now
now in
in
2
2 session.
session. The
The Honorable Juan
Honorable Juan Merchan
Merchan is
is presiding.
presiding.

3
3 THE
THE COURT: Good
COURT: Good morning.
morning. Please
Please be seated.
be seated.

4
4 THE
THE CLERK: The
CLERK: The People
People of
of the
the State
State of
of New
New York
York
5
5 versus Donald
versus Donald J. Trump.
J. Trump. Indictment
Indictment 71543
71543 of
of 23.
23.
6
6 Appearances.
Appearances.

7
7 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Good
Good morning, your Honor,
morning, your Honor, Todd
Todd
8
8 Blanche. I'm
Blanche. I'm joined
joined at
at counsel
counsel table
table by
by three
three ofof my
my
9
9 co-counsels, Susan
co-counsels, Susan Necheles,
Necheles, Amel Bobe and
Amel Bobe and Gadalia
Gadalia Stern.
Stern.
10
10 Also with Prsident
Also with Prsident Trump.
Trump. Good
Good morning.
morning.

n
11 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Good
Good morning.
morning. Good
Good morning
morning everyone.
everyone.
12
12 Good morning
Good morning Mr. Trump.
Mr. Trump.

13
13 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: ForFor the
the People,
People, ADA
ADA Joshua
Joshua
14
14 Steinglass, along
Steinglass, along with
with Matthew
Matthew Colangelo,
Colangelo, Susan
Susan Hoffinger,
Hoffinger,
15
15 Christopher Conroy,
Christopher Conroy, and
and Becky
Becky Mangold.
Mangold. Good
Good morning.
morning.

16
16 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Good
Good morning
morning People.
People.
17
17 As you know,
As you know, this
this matter
matter is
is on
on today
today for
for decision
decision onon
18
18 motions. We'll start
motions. We'll start there.
there. The
The Court
Court has
has aa written
written
19
19 decision, which
decision, which will be handed
will be handed down
down right
right now.
now. II believe
believe
20
20 the People
the People requested
requested five
five copies,
copies, the
the defense
defense requested
requested
21
21 five copies.
five copies. II believe our press
believe our office is
press office is going
going to
to post
post aa
22
22 copy on
copy on online,
online, for
for those
those of
of you
you who
who want
want it.
it.
23
23 In substance,
In substance, defendant's
defendant's motion
motion to
to dismiss
dismiss have
have been
been
24
24 denied.
denied.

25
25 Turning now
Turning now to
to the
the issue
issue of
of trial.
trial. II can
can make
make you
you
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 3
3

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 aware that
aware that II contacted
contacted Judge
Judge Chutkan
Chutkan last
last week,
week, on
on
2
2 February 7th.
February 7th. We spoke
We spoke for
for aa bit
bit about
about scheduling,
scheduling, which
which

3
3 as you
as you know
know we're
we're permitted
permitted to
to do.
do. After speaking further
After speaking further
4
4 a bit,
a bit, she
she called
called me
me back
back on
on February
February 8th
8th and
and we
we spoke
spoke aa
5
5 few more
few more minutes about scheduling.
minutes about scheduling.
6
6 As you know,
As you know, there
there is
is aa lot
lot of
of moving parts in
moving parts in the
the DC
DC
7
7 case. Really
case. Really nobody
nobody knows
knows what's
what's going
going to
to happen
happen and
and when
when
8
8 it's going
it's going to
to happen.
happen. SoSo at
at this
this point
point II can
can inform
inform you
you
9
9 that we're
that we're moving
moving ahead
ahead to
to jury
jury selection
selection on
on March 25th.
March 25th.

10
10 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Your
Your Honor,
Honor, may
may II be
be heard?
heard?
n
11 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Sure.
Sure.
12
12 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Your
Your Honor,
Honor, as
as the
the Court
Court isis aware,
aware,
13
13 we have regularly,
we have regularly, since
since August, asked and
August, asked and sought
sought leave
leave toto
14
14 meet with your
meet with your Honor
Honor to
to discuss the trial
discuss the trial date.
date. In In
15
15 repeated denials,
repeated denials, you've
you've indicated
indicated in
in each
each of
of those
those
16
16 letters, when
letters, when denying
denying our
our request,
request, that
that we would be
we would be able
able to
to
17
17 discuss the
discuss the trial
trial schedule
schedule today.
today.
18
18 THE COURT:
THE COURT: What
What II said
said was
was we'd
we'd be
be in
in aa better
better
19
19 position
position toto discuss
discuss it
it today,
today, and
and we
we can
can do
do that.
that.
20
20 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Well, your Honor,
Well, your Honor, aa discussion
discussion with
with
21
21 Judge Chutkan,
Judge Chutkan, and
and then
then announcing
announcing that
that trial
trial will
will start,
start,
22
22 does not allow
does not allow President
President Trump
Trump or
or his
his counsel
counsel toto put
put on
on the
the
23
23 record our
record our position
position on
on why
why we
we very
very strongly
strongly believe that aa
believe that

24
24 trial to
trial to begin
begin on
on March
March 25th
25th is
is aa grave
grave injustice.
injustice.
25
25 THE COURT:
THE COURT: You
You can
can make
make aa record
record ifif you'd
you'd like.
like.
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 4
4

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: There is
There is four
four reasons,
reasons, all
all
2
2 independent, any
independent, any of
of which should, without
which should, without aa doubt,
doubt, justify
justify
3
3 moving the trial
moving the trial from
from March
March 25th
25th to
to another
another date.
date. The
The
4
4 first is
first is the
the last
last time
time we
we were
were in
in front
front of
of your
your Honor,
Honor, and
and
5
5 then shortly
then shortly thereafter,
thereafter, when
when your
your Honor
Honor scheduled
scheduled trial
trial ofof
6
6 this case
this case on
on May llth of
May 11th of last
last year,
year, it's
it's aa completely
completely
7
7 different landscape for
different landscape for President
President Trump
Trump than
than when
when it
it was
was at
at
8
8 that time.
that time.
9
9 We have now
We have now --
-- President
President Trump
Trump has
has been indicted, as
been indicted, as
10
10 the Court
the Court is
is aware,
aware, in
in three
three different
different cases.
cases. Completely
Completely
n
11 different jurisdictions,
different jurisdictions, completely
completely different
different facts,
facts, and
and
12
12 with completely different
with completely theories of
different theories of proof
proof than
than the
the facts
facts
13
13 that give
that give rise
rise to
to this
this case.
case.
14
14 In all
In all of
of those
those cases,
cases, there
there are,
are, including
including this
this one,
one,
15
15 millions
millions ofof pages of discovery
pages of discovery to
to go
go through.
through. For
For purposes
purposes
16
16 of right
of right now,
now, I'm
I'm not
not talking
talking about
about me. I'm talking
me. I'm talking about
about
17
17 President Trump,
President Trump, who
who has
has aa Constitutional
Constitutional right
right to
to have
have
18
18 enough time
enough time himself
himself to
to prepare
prepare for
for aa criminal
criminal trial.
trial. We We
19
19 have been
have been faced
faced with extremely compressed
with extremely compressed and
and expedited
expedited
20
20 schedules in
schedules in each
each and
and every
every one
one of
of those
those trials.
trials.
21
21 The trial
The trial that
that you
you just
just alluded
alluded to
to in
in front
front of
of Judge
Judge
22
22 Chutkan
Chutkan inin DC,
DC, there's
there's been,
been, as
as I'm
I'm sure
sure the
the Court
Court is
is
23
23 aware, briefing,
aware, briefing, two
two briefs
briefs to
to the
the DC
DC Court
Court of
of Appeals,
Appeals,
24
24 there's aa pending
there's pending application
application toto the
the Supreme
Supreme Court
Court of
of the
the
25
25 United States,
United States, all
all of
of which,
which, again,
again, not
not to
to busy
busy aa lawyer's
lawyer's
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 5
5

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 calendar, all
calendar, all which
which President
President Trump
Trump has
has been
been intimately
intimately
2
2 involved with
involved with along
along the
the way.
way.

3
3 The trial
The trial that
that took
took place
place last
last Fall,
Fall, which
which we knew
we knew

4
4 there was
there was aa trial
trial date
date when
when your
your Honor
Honor set
set the
the schedule
schedule on
on
5
5 May 11th in
May 11th in the
the Attorney General's investigation,
Attorney General's investigation, we
we did
did
6
6 not know
not know that
that it
it was
was going
going to
to be
be as
as long
long as
as it
it ended
ended up
up
7
7 being, nor did
being, nor did we
we know,
know, or
or have
have any
any idea
idea that
that the
the Judge
Judge inin
8
8 that case
that case was
was going
going to
to do
do what
what he
he ended
ended up
up doing,
doing, which
which we,
we,

9
9 again, II don't
again, don't think
think is
is aa new
new position,
position, very
very much dispute.
much dispute.

10
10 We understand that
We understand that even
even as
as soon
soon as
as tomorrow
tomorrow there
there will
will
1n
11 be
be aa decision
decision made,
made, which we'll have
which we'll have to
to appeal,
appeal, President
President
12
12 Trump will
Trump will have
have to
to appeal
appeal with
with his
his counsel.
counsel. WeWe didn't know
didn't know

13
13 that at
that at the
the time.
time.
14
14 Meaningfully,
Meaningfully, andand this
this is
is why
why we
we asked
asked your
your Honor
Honor
15
15 repeatedly to
repeatedly to come
come before
before you
you before
before today,
today, we have been
we have been

16
16 put, we meaning
put, we meaning myself,
myself, my firm, and
my firm, and President
President Trump,
Trump, in
in anan
17
17 impossible position.
impossible position. Because
Because your
your Honor
Honor ordered
ordered me,
me,

18
18 ordered the
ordered the People,
People, and
and ordered
ordered President
President Trump
Trump to
to keep
keep
19
19 March 25th free
March 25th free and
and clear.
clear. When
When II took
took additional
additional
20
20 representation of
representation of President
President Trump
Trump on
on other
other matters,
matters, II knew
knew
21
21 that order.
that order. II expressed
expressed itit to
to every
every Judge
Judge that
that asked,
asked, inin
22
22 writing and on
writing and on the
the record.
record.
23
23 Judge, for
Judge, for reasons
reasons that
that are
are separate
separate but
but distinct,
distinct, two
two
24
24 of the
of the judges,
judges, notwithstanding
notwithstanding that,
that, have
have scheduled
scheduled trials
trials
25
25 that directly
that directly conflict
conflict with
with the
the March 25th date.
March 25th date. Judge
Judge
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 6
6

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 Chutkan scheduled
Chutkan scheduled aa trial,
trial, as
as your
your Honor
Honor knows
knows from
from our
our
2
2 repeated correspondence
repeated correspondence to
to you,
you, that
that would
would have
have made the
made the

3
3 March 25th date
March 25th date impossible.
impossible.
4
4 THE COURT:
THE COURT: ItIt would
would have.
have.
5
5 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: ItIt would
would have.
have. From
From the
the date
date that
that
6
6 she did
she did that,
that, until
until December
December 12th,
12th, we,
we, given
given no
no choice,
choice, hadhad
7
7 to focus
to focus 100
100 percent
percent of
of our
our attention
attention onon preparing
preparing forfor that
that
8
8 trial. And
trial. as your
And as your Honor
Honor just
just alluded
alluded to,
to, notwithstanding
notwithstanding
9
9 the fact
the fact that
that case
case was
was stayed
stayed in
in mid December, until
mid December, until last
last
10
10 week or the
week or the week before last,
week before last, it
it was
was still
still onon the
the calendar
calendar
n
11 in DC.
in DC.
12
12 THE COURT:
THE COURT: All
ALL proceedings
proceedings were
were stayed
stayed on
on that.
that.
13
13 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: The
The proceedings
proceedings were stayed as
were stayed as of
of
14
14 December, but
December, but --
--
15
15 THE COURT:
THE COURT: AA motion was filed
motion was filed against
against the
the
16
16 Special Prosecutor
Special Prosecutor because
because he
he had
had the
the audacity
audacity to
to actually
actually
17
17 file discovery.
file discovery. ThatThat was
was found
found to
to be
be so
so offensive
offensive that
that aa
18
18 motion was brought
motion was brought for
for Judge
Judge Chutkan
Chutkan toto find
find him
him in
in
19
19 contempt because
contempt because nothing
nothing was
was supposed
supposed toto be
be happening
happening onon
20
20 that case.
that case.
21
21 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: That
That is
is correct,
correct, because
because President
President
22
22 Trump has
Trump has aa constitutional
constitutional right
right not
not to
to have
have to
to do any work
do any work
23
23 on aa case
on case when
when there's
there's aa pending
pending case
case such
such as
as immunity
immunity
24
24 which is
which is pending.
pending.
25
25 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Anything
Anything else
else you
you want to put
want to put onon the
the
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 7
7

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 record?
record?

2
2 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Yes, your
Yes, your Honor,
Honor, II do
do moreover,
moreover,
3
3 your Honor,
your Honor, II appreciate
appreciate that
that the
the Court
Court is
is frustrated
frustrated that
that
4
4 I'm rushing,
I'm rushing, but
but II didn't
didn't want
want to
to have
have this
this conference
conference
5
5 today.
today. II asked
asked to
to have
have this
this conference
conference in
in September.
September.
6
6 THE COURT:
THE COURT: The problem
The problem is
is you're
you're not
not telling
telling me
me

7
7 anything that
anything that you
you didn't
didn't already
already include
include in
in your
your prior
prior
8
8 request for
request for aa conference.
conference. You're also
You're also omitting
omitting from
from the
the
s
9 record that
record that you're
you're making
making today
today what
what my responses were.
my responses were. My
My

10
10 responses were
responses were very
very clear.
clear.
1
11 The reason
The reason II did
did not
not have
have aa prior
prior conference
conference with
with you
you
12
12 or anybody
or anybody else
else about
about this
this any
any time
time sooner,
sooner, is
is because
because it
it
13
13 would have been
would have been an
an absolute
absolute waste of time
waste of time for
for everybody.
everybody.
14
14 Nobody knew, and
Nobody knew, and nobody
nobody really
really knows
knows at
at this
this point
point when
when the
the
15
15 DC trial
DC trial is
is moving ahead. You
moving ahead. You don't
don't have
have aa trial
trial date
date in
in
16
16 Georgia. You
Georgia. You don't
don't have
have aa trial
trial date
date in
in Florida.
Florida. Nobody
Nobody
17
17 knew.
knew.

18
18 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: We do have
We do have aa trial
trial date
date in
in Florida.
Florida.
19
19 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Stop
Stop interrupting
interrupting me please. You
me please. You
20
20 don't have
don't have aa trial
trial date,
date, not
not aa real
real one.
one. SoSo it
it would have
would have

2
21 been an absolute
been an absolute waste
waste of
of time
time to
to come
come together
together inin
22
22 November, and then
November, and then what?
what? WeWe would
would have
have adjourned
adjourned this
this
23
23 case, and
case, and then
then what?
what? Nobody
Nobody would
would go
go forward
forward in
in March,
March,
2
24 right? We
right? know now
We know now that
that Judge
Judge Chutkan
Chutkan is
is not
not going
going forward
forward
25
25 on March
on March 4th.
4th. WeWe know
know that
that once
once we
we start
Start this
this trial,
trial, that
that
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 8
8

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 Judge Chutkan
Judge Chutkan can
can not
not go.
go.
2
2 So, you're
So, you're not
not going to be
going to be in
in two
two places
places at
at the
the same
same
3
3 time.
time. I've made
I've clear to
made clear to you,
you, when
when you
you accepted
accepted
4
4 representation on
representation on the
the other
other cases,
cases, you
you knew
knew about
about this
this
5
5 case, you
case, you willingly
willingly chose
chose to
to accept
accept those
those cases.
cases. II had
had
6
6 made clear that
made clear that this
this was
was aa date
date certain,
certain, march 25th was
march 25th was aa
7
7 date certain. You
date certain. You proceeded
proceeded atat your
your own
own peril.
peril.
8
8 Now, Mr.
Now, Mr. Trump
Trump does have an
does have an absolute
absolute right
right to
to be
be
9
9 present
present inin all
all of
of his
his criminal
criminal trials.
trials. It's
It's an
an important
important
10
10 right, and
right, and one
one that
that he
he has
has every
every right
right to
to certainly
certainly take
take
1n
11 advantage of.
advantage of. He's
He's not
not going to be
going to be in
in more
more than
than one
one
12
12 criminal trial
criminal trial at
at the
the same
same time.
time.
13
13 In fact,
In fact, when
when you
you asked
asked me, last week,
me, last week, if
if he
he could
could bebe

14
14 excused from
excused from today's
today's proceedings,
proceedings, II responded
responded that
that what
what wewe

15
15 can do
can do --
-- or
or that
that he
he was
was undecided
undecided whether
whether hehe was
was going
going toto
16
16 go to
go to the
the proceeding
proceeding today
today in
in Georgia,
Georgia, oror whether
whether wewe could
could
17
17 adjourn this
adjourn this for
for another
another day
day or
or two,
two, and
and II responded,
responded, no,
no,
18
18 we're not
we're not going
going to
to adjourn
adjourn anything.
anything. But,
But, II gave
gave you
you the
the
19
19 option, if
option, if you
you wanted,
wanted, of
of having
having Mr. Trump appear
Mr. Trump appear virtually
virtually
20
20 from Georgia
from Georgia so
so that
that he
he could
could attend
attend the
the Georgia
Georgia proceeding
proceeding
21
21 as well
as well as
as our
our proceeding.
proceeding.
22
22 I've tried
I've tried to
to work
work with you where
with you where it's
it's reasonable,
reasonable, butbut

23
23 there is
there is simply
simply no
no point,
point, there
there was no point,
was no point, to
to meeting
meeting

24
24 earlier to
earlier to discuss
discuss scheduling
scheduling when
when nobody
nobody knew
knew what
what was
was

25
25 going to happen.
going to happen.
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 9
9

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Your Honor,
Your Honor, II agree.
agree. In every
In every one
one
2
2 of your
of your letters,
letters, you
you indicated
indicated to
to me
me that
that we
we would
would have
have aa
3
3 discussion about scheduling
discussion about scheduling today.
today.
4
4 THE COURT:
THE COURT: And
And we're
we're having
having it.
it.
5
5 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: This
This isis not
not aa discussion
discussion when
when we
we
6
6 begin the conference
begin the conference byby saying,
saying, we're starting March
we're starting March 25th,
25th,
7
7 without letting me
without letting explain --
me explain --
8
8 THE COURT:
THE COURT: What
What II want
want to
to hear
hear is
is something
something youyou
9
9 haven't already
haven't already told
told me. That's what
me. That's what II want to hear.
want to hear. Tell
Tell
10
10 me something that
me something that you
you haven't
haven't already
already told
told me
me in
in the
the
n
11 letters. Tell
letters. Tell me
me something
something you
you haven't
haven't already
already said
said today.
today.
12
12 You can
You can certainly
certainly make
make your
your record.
record. II want
want you
you to
to make
make
13
13 your record.
your record. II just
just don't
don't want
want you
you repeating
repeating the
the same
same
14
14 things over
things over and
and over
over again
again because
because II responded
responded toto those
those
15
15 issues already.
issues already.
16
16 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Your
Your Honor,
Honor, very
very much so, we
much so, we take
take aa
17
17 very strong disagreement
very strong disagreement toto the
the idea
idea that
that it
it was
was reasonable
reasonable
18
18 to have
to have two
two trials
trials scheduled
scheduled forfor the
the same
same time,
time, and
and we'll
we'll
19
19 just see
just see what
what happens
happens in
in February.
February. YourYour Honor,
Honor,
20
20 respectfully, the
respectfully, the May
May 20th
20th trial,
trial, from
from the
the order
order of
of the
the
21
21 Court,
Court, isis firm.
firm. That
That day
day is
is in
in play.
play.

22
22 We have aa conference
We have conference on
on March
March 1st
1st to
to discuss
discuss moving
moving
23
23 that trial
that trial date.
date. Your
Your Honor
Honor isis correct,
correct, wewe have
have aa ton
ton ofof
24
24 litigation there
litigation there as
as recently
recently asas this
this Monday
Monday and
and Tuesday,
Tuesday, in in
25
25 a classified
a classified hearing,
hearing, and
and we
we most certainly are
most certainly are going to
going to

Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 10
10

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 ask to
ask to move
move that
that trial
trial date.
date.
2
2 Correct, that's
Correct, that's absolute
absolute correct,
correct, the
the Special
Special
3
3 Counsel's Office, as
Counsel's Office, as recently
recently as
as last
last week,
week, is
is assuming
assuming
4
4 that that
that that trial
trial date is going
date is forward. II do
going forward. do not
not believe
believe
5
5 it's fair
it's fair or
or appropriate
appropriate toto say
say that
that that
that date
date is
is not,
not, that
that
6
6 we don't have
we don't have aa trial
trial date.
date. WeWe do.
do.
7
7 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Even
Even if
if he
he goes
goes forward,
forward, it's
it's not
not
8
8 going to happen
going to happen at
at the
the same
same time
time as
as this
this trial.
trial.
9
9 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Your
Your Honor,
Honor, the
the schedule
schedule that
that wewe
10
10 believe is in
believe is in play
play for
for this
this trial,
trial, best
best case
case scenario,
scenario, or or
1n
11 even aa reasonable
even reasonable case
case scenario,
scenario, itit would end aa few
would end few days
days oror
12
12 a week
a week perhaps
perhaps before
before that
that trial.
trial.
13
13 Putting aside
Putting aside counsel,
counsel, you
you said
said II did
did this
this at
at my
my
14
14 peril. I'll accept
peril. I'll accept that.
that. But
But we're
we're also
also talking
talking about
about
15
15 President Trump.
President Trump. What
What you're
you're suggesting
suggesting isis going
going to
to happen
happen
16
16 is you
is you will
will start
start trial
trial on
on March
March 25th,
25th, pick
pick aa jury
jury for
for aa
17
17 week or two,
week or two, have
have five
five or
or six
six weeks
weeks ofof trial,
trial, give
give or
or take,
take,
18
18 which puts
which puts us
us right
right up
up to
to the
the third
third week
week of
of May
May where
where hehe
19
19 has been
has in Court,
been in Court, if
if I'm
I'm wrong
wrong I'm
I'm happy
happy to
to corrected,
corrected, I'm I'm
20
20 convinced the
convinced the third
third week
week ofof May, where he's
May, where he's been in Court
been in Court

21
21 four days
four days aa week, not preparing
week, not preparing for
for aa very
very significant
significant
22
22 trial where
trial where his
his insight
insight and
and strategy
strategy isis extremely
extremely important
important
23
23 to the
to the defense.
defense. That
That is
is an
an unconstitutional
unconstitutional violation
violation in in
24
24 our view,
our view, Judge,
Judge, and
and one
one that's
that's easily
easily remedied,
remedied, Judge.
Judge. So So
25
25 we will know,
we will know, presumably
presumably asas soon
soon as
as March Sth, or
March 5th, or day
day oror
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 n
11

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 two afterwards,
two afterwards, what is happening
what is happening with
with that
that trial.
trial.
2
2 Moreover, there's
Moreover, there's aa pending
pending application
application before
before the
the
3
3 Supreme Court,
Supreme Court, as
as I'm
I'm sure
sure everybody
everybody is
is aware,
aware, as
as recently
recently
4
4 as last
as last night,
night, the
the Special
Special Counsel
Counsel asked
asked the
the Supreme
Supreme Court
Court
5
5 to either
to either send
send the
the mandate
mandate back
back to
to Judge
Judge Chutkan,
Chutkan, or
or to
to
6
6 hold argument
hold argument in
in March.
March. If the
If the Supreme
Supreme Court
Court does
does either
either
7
7 of those
of those two
two things,
things, the
the trial
trial in
in DC
DC will
will very
very likely
likely go
go in
in
8
8 June or
June or July
July as
as well.
well.

9
9 Again, I'm not
Again, I'm not asking
asking to
to predict
predict that
that your
your Honor
Honor will
will
10
10 say, we
say, we don't
don't know,
know, and
and II very
very much
much agree
agree with
with that.
that. But
But
1n
11 if we
if we come
come back
back to
to this
this courtroom
courtroom shortly
shortly after
after March lst,
March 1st,

12
12 we will have
we will have the
the clarity
clarity that
that we
we lack
lack right
right now.
now. WeWe will
will
13
13 know whether
know whether the
the Supreme
Supreme Court
Court has
has granted
granted aa stay,
stay, which
which
14
14 will
will more or less
more or less put
put that
that trial
trial later
later into
into the
the year,
year, at
at
15
15 the earliest,
the earliest, and
and we
we will
will know
know what
what Judge
Judge Cannon
Cannon has
has done
done
16
16 in Florida.
in Florida. Otherwise,
Otherwise, it's
it's truly
truly an
an impossible
impossible position
position
17
17 for any
for any person
person toto be
be in.
in. I'm
I'm not
not speaking
speaking about
about myself
myself oror
18
18 my law firm,
my law firm, I'm
I'm talking
talking about
about the
the defendant.
defendant.
19
19 THE COURT:
THE COURT: You've
You've made that clear.
made that clear.
20
20 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: And second, and
And second, and most
most

21
21 significantly --
significantly -- there
there are
are two
two more
more very
very brief
brief points.
points. OneOne

22
22 is, as
is, as the
the Court
Court isis aware,
aware, we
we are
are in
in the
the middle of
middle of

23
23 primaries.
primaries. It It is
is aa different landscape than
different landscape than it
it was
was May
May

24
24 11th. There
11th. There are
are two
two key
key time
time periods
periods in
in any
any election,
election,
25
25 especially one
especially one for
for President
President of
of the
the United
United States.
States. One is
One is

Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 12
12

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 the primary
the and caucus
primary and caucus season,
season, and
and one
one is
is the
the general
general
2
2 election season.
election season.
3
3 As it stands
As it stands now,
now, starting
starting March lst, just
March 1st, just to
to pick
pick aa
4
4 date, through
date, through the
the time
time that
that we expect this
we expect this trial
trial to
to end,
end, byby
5
5 ny count, there
my count, there are
are 42
42 primaries
primaries and
and caucuses
caucuses during
during that
that
6
6 time period,
time period, inin the
the time
time that
that President
President Trump
Trump has
has to
to help
help
7
7 prepare for trial.
prepare for trial. And really the
And really the most
most key
key parts after we
parts after we

8
8 file motions
file motions inin limine,
limine, when we're having
when we're having the
the various
various
9
9 motions leading up
motions leading up to
to the
the start
start of
of trial,
trial, there
there are
are 3737 in
in
10
10 March. They're on
March. They're on every
every day
day of
of the
the week
week mostly, everything
mostly, everything

n
11 from Saturday,
from Saturday, Sunday,
Sunday, Tuesday,
Tuesday, Thursday.
Thursday.
12
12 So by
So starting this
by starting this trial
trial onon March
March 25th,
25th, now
now that
that the
the
13
13 primary dates are
primary dates are set,
set, it
it is
is --
-- and
and President
President Trump
Trump says
says
14
14 this all
this all the
the time,
time, and
and the
the media
media makes fun of
makes fun of him
him --
-- but
but itit
15
15 is completely
is completely election
election interference
interference toto say,
say, you
you are
are going
going

16
16 to sit
to sit in
in this
this courtroom,
courtroom, inin Manhattan,
Manhattan, when there is
when there is no
no
17
17 reason for
reason for it.
it.
18
18 By the
By the way,
way, the
the District
District Attorney
Attorney himself
himself has
has said
said
19
19 there is
there is no
no reason
reason to
to start
start this
this trial
trial in
in March.
March. He He said,
said,
20
20 on the
on the record,
record, starting
starting in
in July,
July, before
before there
there were
were any
any
21
21 other indictments,
other indictments, that
that he
he had
had aa very
very broad
broad view
view of
of
22
22 justice. That
justice. That he
he understood.
understood.
23
23 So it's
So it's not
not the
the People
People that
that are
are insisting
insisting on
on this
this
24
24 trial, by
trial, by any
any stretch
stretch of
of the
the imagination,
imagination, so so long
long as
as
25
25 there's aa good
there's good reason
reason to
to move it. If
move it. If their
their mind,
mind, aa good
good

Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 13
13

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 reason to
reason to move
move it
it is
is some
some other
other Federal
Federal case
case that
that they
they
2
2 believe
believe isis more
more important
important than
than this
this one.
one. What
What about
about hishis
3
3 rights?
rights?

4
4 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Let
Let me
me hear
hear from
from the
the People
People then.
then.
5
5 MR. COLANGELO:
MR. COLANGELO: Good
Good morning,
morning, you
you Honor.
Honor. Matthew
Matthew

6
6 Colangelo for
Colangelo for the
the People.
People. II won't
won't respond
respond to
to many
many ofof the
the
7
7 points that Mr.
points that Blanche has
Mr. Blanche has raised
raised because,
because, as
as your
your Honor
Honor
8
8 correctly noted,
correctly noted, most of them
most of them are
are not
not new.
new. I'd
I'd like
like to to
9
9 address just
address just aa couple.
couple.
10
10 Mr. Blanche, in
Mr. Blanche, in an
an exchange
exchange with
with your
your Honor
Honor about
about thethe
n
11 Florida trial
Florida trial date
date said
said the
the May 20th trial
May 20th trial is
is firm.
firm. But But toto
12
12 bring to the
bring to the Court's
Court's attention
attention that
that just
just yesterday,
yesterday,
13
13 Mr. Blanche, the
Mr. Blanche, the defense
defense counsel,
counsel, filed
filed aa pleading
pleading in in that
that
14
14 case that
case that said,
said, "The
"The Court
Court scheduling
scheduling order
order does
does not
not.
15
15 suggest that
suggest that the
the current
current trial
trial date
date is
is firm."
firm." We're
We're happy
happy
16
16 to hand
to hand that
that up,
up, file
file it
it with
with the
the Court
Court after
after the
the
17
17 proceeding.
proceeding.

18
18 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Yes,
Yes, please.
please.
19
19 MR. COLANGELO:
MR. COLANGELO: We We can
can file
file it
it after
after this
this
20
20 proceeding.
proceeding. But,But, your
your Honor,
Honor, II suggest
suggest that
that that
that indicates
indicates
21
21 a continued
a continued pattern, that the
pattern, that the Court
Court has
has already
already recognized,
recognized,
22
22 of using
of using the
the pendency
pendency of
of each
each proceeding
proceeding inin an
an attempt
attempt to to
23
23 try to
try to evade
evade accountability
accountability in in any
any proceeding.
proceeding.
24
24 Second, your
Second, your Honor,
Honor, Mr.
Mr. Blanche
Blanche was
was just
just talking
talking about
about
25
25 the primary
the calendar, and
primary calendar, and was
was raising
raising concern
concern about
about thethe
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 14
14

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 interruption to
interruption to the
the defendant's other commitments.
defendant's other commitments.
2
2 We should
We should bring
bring to
to the
the Court's attention that
Court's attention that on
on May
May
3
3 11th, last
11th, last year,
year, as
as part of the
part of the meet and confer
meet and confer among
among the
the
4
4 parties,
parties, inin response
response toto your
your Honor's
Honor's request
request and
and direction,
direction,
5
5 that we
that we confer
confer on
on trial
trial dates in February
dates in February and
and March,
March,
6
6 Mr. Blanche wrote
Mr. Blanche wrote toto the
the People,
People, and
and this
this isis in
in an
an email
email
7
7 that I'm
that I'm happy
happy to
to hand
hand up
up and
and give
give to
to defense
defense counsel,
counsel,
8
8 because
because itit was
was not
not yet
yet filed
filed with
with the
the Court,
Court, Mr. Blanche
Mr. Blanche

9
9 wrote to the
wrote to the People,
People, "If
"If we
we start
start the
the trial
trial on
on March
March 25th,
25th,
10
10 although still
although still disruptive
disruptive toto the
the campaign,
campaign, itit will
will minimize
minimize
1n
11 the disruption
the disruption because
because there
there is,
is, as
as of
of now,
now, approximately
approximately
12
12 three weeks
three weeks with only aa few
with only few primaries between March
primaries between March 25th
25th
13
13 and late
and late April. Note that
April. Note that there
there are
are 25
25 GOP
GOP primaries
primaries
14
14 between February 24th
between February 24th and
and March
March 19th."
19th."
15
15 So your
So your Honor,
Honor, the
the March 25th trial
March 25th trial date
date already
already
16
16 accommodated the
accommodated the concerns
concerns that
that Mr.
Mr. Blanche
Blanche has
has articulated,
articulated,
17
17 having represented
having represented toto People,
People, nine
nine months
months ago,
ago, that
that aa trial
trial
18
18 starting March
starting 25th, on
March 25th, on behalf of the
behalf of the defendant
defendant would be
would be

19
19 minimally disruptive to
minimally disruptive to the
the campaign
campaign season.
season. It's
It's hard
hard toto
20
20 see how
see how he
he can
can be
be heard
heard toto complain
complain to
to the
the Court
Court now
now about
about
21
21 undue disruption.
undue disruption.
22
22 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Thank
Thank you.
you. Just
Just to
to respond
respond to
to what
what
23
23 he said,
he said, if
if that's
that's what
what you
you were going to
were going to do.
do. II don't
don't want
want
24
24 you to
you to go
go back
back and
and make
make aa record
record that
that you've
you've already
already made.
made.

25
25 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: I'mI'm going to move
going to move on
on to
to something
something
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 15
15

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 else.
else.

2
2 THE COURT:
THE COURT: II find
find the
the filing
filing that
that was
was made
made

3
3 yesterday interesting,
yesterday interesting, especially
especially the
the choice
choice of
of words, that
words, that

4
4 the date
the date does
does not
not suggest
suggest that
that it's
it's actually
actually aa firm
firm date,
date,
5
5 or something
or something to
to that
that effect.
effect.
6
6 MR. COLANGELO:
MR. COLANGELO: Your Honor,
Your Honor, the
the quote
quote from
from the
the
7
7 document that
document that was
was filed
filed in
in Florida
Florida yesterday,
yesterday, and
and I'll
I'll
8
8 quote, "The
quote, "The Court's
Court's scheduling
scheduling order
order does
does not
not suggest
suggest that
that
9
9 the current
the current trial
trial date
date is
is firm."
firm."
10
10 THE COURT:
THE COURT: So II assume
So assume that
that at
at the
the time
time that
that
n
11 filing was
filing was made,
made, under
under the
the penalties
penalties of
of perjury, that's
perjury, that's

12
12 what you believe.
what you believe.
13
13 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: The
The scheduling
scheduling order
order is
is public.
public.

14
14 Judge Cannon
Judge Cannon has
has indicated
indicated that
that in
in the
the scheduling
scheduling order,
order,
15
15 that the
that the May 20th trial
May 20th trial date remains, but
date remains, but that
that she
she will
will
16
16 address all
address all other
other motions,
motions, including
including whether
whether that
that date
date
17
17 needs to
needs to move, which is
move, which is what
what II just
just said
said to
to the
the Court, that
Court, that

18
18 I'm very
I'm very much going to
much going to ask
ask to
to move
move that
that trial
trial date
date on
on
19
19 March 1st.
March 1st.

20
20 II was
was simply
simply addressing
addressing Your
Your Honor's
Honor's response
response that,
that,
21
21 initially, that
initially, that there
there wasn't
wasn't aa trial
trial date
date in
in the
the Florida
Florida
22
22 case. II don't
case. don't want
want there
there to
to be
be any
any confusion.
confusion. We very
We very

23
23 much think that
much think that trial
trial date
date should
should move.
move. The
The Special
Special
24
24 Counsel very
Counsel very much thinks it
much thinks it should
should not.
not. Judge
Judge Cannon
Cannon is
is
25
25 going
going toto consider
consider whether
whether toto move the trial
move the trial date,
date, which
which isis
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 16
16

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 still in
still in place.
place.
2
2 Indeed, your
Indeed, your Honor,
Honor, and
and this
this is
is all
all publicly
publicly available
available
3
3 on the
on the docket,
docket, we
we have
have to
to come
come up
up with
with jury
jury questionnaires
questionnaires
4
4 in advance
in advance of
of March
March 1st
Ist in
in order
order to
to allow
allow for
for aa jury
jury to
to be
be

5
5 selected by
selected by May 20th.
May 20th. That's been
That's been ordered
ordered by
by Judge
Judge Cannon.
Cannon.

6
6 So II appreciate
So appreciate the
the People
People --
-- we
we do
do want
want the
the date
date to
to
7
7 move in May,
move in there is
May, there is no
no dispute,
dispute, but
but it's
it's still
still the
the trial
trial
8
8 date, much
date, much like
like this
this date,
date, Judge.
Judge.
s
9 THE COURT:
THE COURT: That's
That's fine.
fine. I'm
I'm sure
sure that
that the
the trial
trial
10
10 cannot start
cannot start onon May 20th if
May 20th if this
this trial
trial is
is ongoing
ongoing May
May 20th
20th
1
11 and Mr.
and Trump is
Mr. Trump is present
present inin this
this courtroom
courtroom onon May
May 20th,
20th,
12
12 which
which II don't
don't expect.
expect. II expect
expect this
this trial
trial to
to last
last about
about
13
13 six weeks.
six Even so,
weeks. Even so, we
we can't
can't have
have two
two simultaneous
simultaneous
14
14 criminal trials.
criminal trials.
15
15 Mr. Blanche, we
Mr. Blanche, we can't
can't go
go on
on with
with this
this forever.
forever. Is Is
16
16 there anything
there anything else
else that
that you
you want
want to
to say
say that
that you
you haven't
haven't
17
17 already said?
already said?
18
18 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Yes.
Yes.
19
19 THE COURT:
THE COURT: GoGo ahead.
ahead.
20
20 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: There
There are
are two
two more
more meaningful
meaningful
2
21 points. First, the
points. First, the outsized
outsized and
and extraordinary
extraordinary media
media
22
22 saturation that
saturation that we are experiencing
we are experiencing in in this
this City
City right
right now,
now,
23
23 as it
as it relates
relates toto President
President Trump,
Trump, because
because of
of the
the AG
AG trial,
trial,
2
24 which lasted
which lasted all
all fall,
fall, and
and the
the E.
E. Jean
Jean Carroll
Carroll trial,
trial, which
which
25
25 came upon
came upon us
us in
in January.
January. Again,
Again, II don't
don't think
think I'm
I'm
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 17
17

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 providing your Honor
providing your Honor new
new information
information factually,
factually, but that
but that

2
2 was
was aa case
case that
that involves
involves salacious
salacious false
false allegations
allegations that
that
3
3 President Trump
President Trump was not allowed
was not allowed toto contest
contest at
at trial.
trial.
4
4 Thereafter, the
Thereafter, the Plaintiff
Plaintiff inin that
that case,
case, after
after the
the verdict,
verdict,
5
5 went on and
went on and continues
continues to
to be
be on
on aa media blitz, continuing
media blitz, continuing toto
6
6 spread information
spread information about
about President
President Trump,
Trump, some
some of
of which
which ----
7
7 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Tell
Tell me
me how
how that
that applies
applies to
to this
this
8
8 trial date?
trial date?
s
9 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: It's
It's consistent
consistent with the evidence
with the evidence
10
10 that the
that the People
People seek
seek to
to offer
offer inin this
this trial.
trial. Same
Same type
type of
of
1
11 evidence. Not
evidence. Not regarding
regarding E.E. Jean
Jean Carroll
Carroll herself,
herself, but
but the
the
12
12 same type
same type of
of evidence
evidence that
that is
is extraordinarily
extraordinarily prejudicial.
prejudicial.
13
13 You're going
You're to ask
going to ask aa jury,
jury, from
from this
this jury
jury pool, to
pool, to

14
14 come in
come in here
here and
and say,
say, we
we have
have no
no view
view of
of President
President Trump,
Trump,
15
15 or that
or that whatever view we
whatever view we do
do have,
have, we
we can
can put
put aside
aside and
and only
only
16
16 listen to
listen to the
the facts
facts and
and evidence
evidence inin this
this courtroom.
courtroom.
17
17 THE COURT:
THE COURT: What
What is
is the
the solution
solution do
do that
that problem?
problem?
18
18 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: There
There isis case
case law,
law, your
your Honor.
Honor.
19
19 THE COURT:
THE COURT: SoSo you
you tell
tell me,
me, what
what are
are you
you seeking?
seeking?
20
20 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: As time goes
As time goes by.
by. The
The media
media
2
21 saturation goes
saturation goes buy.
buy.

22
22 THE COURT:
THE COURT: What
What are
are you
you asking
asking me
me to
to do?
do?

23
23 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: We ask that
We ask that we come back
we come in early
back in early
2
24 March.
March.

25
25 THE COURT:
THE COURT: You
You think
think the
the saturation
saturation would
would be
be
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 18
18

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 gone by then?
gone by then?
2
2 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: II think
think if
if the
the trial
trial at
at some
some point
point
3
3 later --
later -- March is too
March is too soon.
soon.
4
4 THE COURT:
THE COURT: April,
April, May?
May?

5
5 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Perhaps.
Perhaps.
6
6 THE COURT:
THE COURT: What
What if
if it's
it's not?
not? What if we're
What if we're
7
7 still getting
still getting the
the same
same saturation
saturation inin April
April or
or May?
May?
8
8 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Then
Then the
the Constitution
Constitution affords
affords
s
9 President Trump
President Trump aa fair
fair trial,
trial, and
and that
that includes
includes aa jury
jury that
that
10
10 can listen
can listen to
to the
the evidence
evidence inin this
this courtroom
courtroom full
full stop,
stop, and
and
1
11 not have
not have anything
anything else.
else.
12
12 One
One more thing. In
more thing. In some
some ways,
ways, II should
should have
have led
led with
with
13
13 this. The
this. The more
more significant,
significant, and
and perhaps
perhaps most significant
most significant

14
14 reason why
reason why it
it is
is unfathomable
unfathomable that
that we
we start
start trial
trial on
on
15
15 March 25th is
March 25th is that
that there
there is
is one
one witness in this
witness in this case
case that
that
16
16 has any
has any live
live testimony,
testimony, any
any testimony
testimony about
about conversations
conversations
17
17 involving President
involving President Trump
Trump and
and the
the supposed
supposed filing
filing of
of aa
18
18 false business
false business record.
record. That
That witness
witness is
is Michael
Michael Cohen.
Cohen.

19
19 As your Honor
As your Honor is
is aware,
aware, II would
would assume,
assume, Michael Cohen
Michael Cohen

20
20 committed perjury
committed perjury two
two months
months ago,
ago, across
across the
the street,
street, inin the
the
2
21 AG trial, in
AG trial, in multiple respects. II assume,
multiple respects. assume, and
and I'm
I'm happy
happy toto
22
22 be told I'm
be told I'm wrong, we received
wrong, we received no
no notice
notice that
that this
this office
office
23
23 is investigating
is investigating him
him for
for that
that felony.
felony. Indeed,
Indeed, it
it was
was aa
2
24 violation of
violation of supervised
supervised release
release in
in the
the Southern
Southern District.
District.
25
25 There's aa current
There's current order
order to
to show
show cause
cause in
in the
the Southern
Southern
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 19
19

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 District for
District for Mr. Cohen coming
Mr. Cohen coming up
up with
with fake
fake cases
cases and
and
2
2 presenting
presenting toto the
the Federal
Federal Judge.
Judge.
3
3 We have aa witness
We have witness --
-- how
how can
can we
we possibly
possibly go
go to
to trial
trial
4
4 when there's aa witness
when there's witness who
who committed
committed perjury
perjury two
two months
months agoago
5
5 across the
across the street?
street? This
This office
office should
should be
be investigating
investigating
6
6 him.
him.

7
7 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Let's
Let's hear
hear from
from the
the People
People again.
again.
8
8 Would you like
Would you like to
to respond?
respond?
s
9 MR. COLANGELO:
MR. COLANGELO: Thank
Thank you,
you, your
your Honor,
Honor, yes.
yes. LetLet
10
10 ny respond on
my respond on two
two points.
points. First
First on
on the
the saturated
saturated media
media
1
11 environment. II don't
environment. think the
don't think the Court
Court needs
needs to
to hear
hear much
much

12
12 except to
except to say
say that
that II think
think the
the remedy
remedy for
for that
that is
is to
to
13
13 proceed promptly to
proceed promptly to aa fair
fair and
and quick
quick trial
trial in
in order
order to
to
14
14 preserve the ability
preserve the ability for
for the
the Court
Court toto select
select an
an impartial
impartial
15
15 Jury.
jury.

16
16 Then on
Then on the
the second
second question
question Mr. Blanche is
Mr. Blanche is just
just
17
17 raising, obviously,
raising, obviously, ifif and
and when
when Mr. Cohen testifies
Mr. Cohen testifies atat
18
18 trial, they'll
trial, they'll have
have an
an opportunity
opportunity to to cross-examine
cross-examine him
him onon
19
19 the veracity
the veracity ofof his
his testimony.
testimony. That's
That's the
the appropriate
appropriate wayway
20
20 to handle
to handle that
that question.
question. Thank
Thank you.
you.
2
21 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Thank
Thank you.
you. Just
Just the
the last
last thing
thing onon
22
22 this topic,
this topic, II think
think it's
it's just
just common
common sense
sense that
that when we've
when we've

23
23 had the
had the conferences,
conferences, when
when you
you requested
requested them
them months
months back,
back,

2
24 and II had
and had done
done what
what you
you requested,
requested, which
which is
is to
to adjourn
adjourn the
the
25
25 case because
case because ofof the
the DC
DC case,
case, it
it would have been
would have been an
an absolute
absolute
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 20
20

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 waste
waste ofof time
time because
because we
we would
would have
have wound up adjourning
wound up adjourning our
our
2
2 case only
case only to
to see
see the
the DC
DC case
case not
not start
start on
on March
March 4th.
4th.
3
3 That's the
That's the problem
problem with
with jocking
jocking and
and moving when there
moving when there are
are
4
4 multiple parts, and
multiple parts, and we don't all
we don't all have
have control
control over
over each
each one
one
5
5 of those
of those sparts.
sparts.
6
6 So again,
So again, as
as II stated
stated in
in my
my letter
letter to
to you,
you, there
there was
was aa
7
7 rationale behind
rationale behind my
my decision.
decision. In In hindsight,
hindsight, frankly,
frankly, I'm
I'm
8
8 glad that II took
glad that took that
that position,
position, because here we
because here we are
are and
and the
the
9
9 DC case
DC case did
did not
not go forward.
go forward.

10
10 II wanted
wanted to
to turn
turn --
-- are
are You
You done
done with
with that
that record?
record?
n
11 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: II would
would like
like to
to talk
talk about
about it
it all
all
12
12 day, Judge.
day, Judge. II cannot
cannot express
express how
how completely
completely inappropriate
inappropriate
13
13 it is
it is that
that the
the only
only thing
thing that
that matters
matters is
is the
the fact
fact that
that
14
14 there is
there is confusion
confusion around
around multiple
multiple criminal
criminal trials
trials against
against
15
15 President Trump.
President Trump. Guess
Guess what, let's just
what, let's just make sure he's
make sure he's
16
16 ready and,
ready and, you
you know,
know, move forward on
move forward on March 25th,
March 25th,

17
17 notwithstanding everything
notwithstanding everything ----
18
18 THE COURT:
THE COURT: All
All right,
right, thank
thank you,
you, Mr. Blanche.
Mr. Blanche.

19
19 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: It's
It's not
not appropriate.
appropriate.
20
20 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Mr.
Mr. Blanche,
Blanche, please
please have
have aa seat.
seat.
21
21 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Yes,
Yes, your
your Honor.
Honor.
22
22 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Would
Would the
the People
People like
like to
to say
say anything
anything
23
23 else in
else in response
response to
to the
the defense request that
defense request that the
the trial
trial be
be
24
24 adjourned?
adjourned?

25
25 MR. COLANGELO:
MR. COLANGELO: No,No, your
your Honor.
Honor. We're
We're ready
ready to
to
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 21
21

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 proceed.
proceed.

2
2 THE COURT:
THE COURT: All right,
All right, this
this is
is not
not the
the first
first time
time
3
3 I'm hearing
I'm hearing any
any of
of these
these claims.
claims. It's not
It's not the
the first
first time
time
4
4 that I'm
that I'm having
having to
to resolve
resolve any
any of
of these
these claims.
claims. They've
They've

5
5 been on my
been on radar for
my radar for many, many months.
many, many I've addressed
months. I've addressed
6
6 them both
them both with
with you
you and
and within
within mymy own
own chambers
chambers for
for many,
many,
7
7 many
many months.
months.

8
8 II appreciate
appreciate what
what you're
you're saying
saying about
about your
your client's
client's
9
9 Constitutional rights.
Constitutional rights. Certainly,
Certainly, I I don't
don't want
want to
to violate
violate
10
10 his Constitutional
his Constitutional rights,
rights, nor
nor does
does anybody
anybody else.
else. But
But at
at
n
11 this point,
this under the
point, under the circumstances,
circumstances, given
given all
all the
the
12
12 information II have
information have before
before me
me right
right now,
now, we're moving ahead
we're moving ahead
13
13 to jury
to jury selection
selection onon March 25th.
March 25th.

14
14 Before we
Before address any
we address any of
of the
the substantive
substantive points,
points, II
15
15 wanted
wanted toto go
go over
over issues
issues that
that are
are still
still pending, and make
pending, and make

16
16 sure we're
sure we're all
all on
on the
the same
same page
page as
as far
far as
as that
that goes.
goes.
17
17 The defense
The defense reply
reply to
to the
the People's
People's motion
motion to
to quash
quash
18
18 subpoenas is
subpoenas is due
due tomorrow,
tomorrow, right?
right?
19
19 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Yes.
Yes.
20
20 THE COURT:
THE COURT: The
The motions
motions in
in limine
limine are
are due
due

21
21 February 22nd,
February 22nd, is
is that
that right?
right?
22
22 MR. COLANGELO:
MR. COLANGELO: Yes,
Yes, your
your Honor.
Honor.
23
23 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Yes,
Yes, your
your Honor.
Honor.
24
24 THE COURT:
THE COURT: The
The replies
replies to
to motions
motions in
in limine
limine are
are
25
25 due February
due February 29th.
29th.
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 22
22

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Yes.
Yes.

2
2 THE COURT:
THE COURT: The defense
The defense deadline
deadline to
to provide
provide
3
3 notice of
notice of intent
intent to
to rely
rely on
on the
the defense
defense of
of advice
advice of
of
4
4 counsel is
counsel is March
March 11th.
11th. The defense
The defense deadline
deadline to
to raise
raise
5
5 objections, or
objections, or claims
claims privilege
privilege regarding
regarding the
the defense
defense of
of
6
6 advice of
advice of counsel
counsel is
is due
due no
no later
later than
than March
March 7th.
7th. And the
And the
7
7 last pending
last pending matter that II have
matter that have is
is the
the decision
decision on
on the
the
8
8 defense motion
defense to reargue
motion to reargue the
the Court's
Court's decision
decision on
on the
the
s
9 motion
motion toto squash
squash is
is still
still pending
pending in
in my chambers.
my chambers.

10
10 Is there
Is there anything
anything else
else that
that you
you can
can think
think of
of that's
that's
1
11 pending for which
pending for we have
which we have aa deadline?
deadline?
12
12 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: That's
That's it,
it, Judge,
Judge, thank
thank you.
you.
13
13 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: II don't
don't have
have anything
anything else
else pending,
pending,
14
14 Judge. II would
Judge. would ask,
ask, on
on the
the motions in limine
motions in limine date,
date, II know
know
15
15 Your Honor's
Your Honor's considered
considered our
our request
request for
for the
the motions in
motions in

16
16 Limine to
limine to be
be filed
filed on
on the
the 29th,
29th, as
as opposed
opposed toto the
the 22nd.
22nd. II
17
17 feel like
feel like I'm
I'm maybe
maybe beating
beating a a dead
dead horse,
horse, but
but we
we have
have
18
18 substantive motions
substantive motions due on the
due on the 22nd
22nd in
in the
the Florida
Florida case,
case,
19
19 all of
all of our
our pretrial
pretrial motions. Obviously --
motions. Obviously --
20
20 THE COURT:
THE COURT: When
When you
you say,
say, we,
we, which attorneys are
which attorneys are
2
21 we talking about?
we talking about?
22
22 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: I'm
I'm talking
talking about
about mymy law
law firm.
firm.
23
23 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Does
Does he
he have
have any
any other
other attorneys
attorneys
2
24 representing him
representing him down
down there.
there.
25
25 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: President
President Trump
Trump has
has many attorneys
many attorneys

Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 23
23

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 representing him,
representing him, your
your Honor.
Honor. I'm the
I'm the lead
lead attorney
attorney in
in
2
2 this case,
this case, and
and on
on that
that case.
case. I'm asking
I'm asking for,
for, if
if not
not aa
3
3 week, at
week, at least
least the
the weekend
weekend of
of that
that time,
time, the
the 22nd,
22nd,
4
4 following Monday
following Monday or
or Tuesday,
Tuesday, for
for the
the motions in limine.
motions in limine. We
We

5
5 obviously have
obviously have been
been working on them,
working on them, but
but many of them
many of them rise
rise
6
6 off of
off of the
the Court's
Court's decision,
decision, which
which we
we now
now have.
have. II would
would
7
7 just ask
just ask for
for aa few
few days
days beyond the 22nd
beyond the 22nd to
to get
get those
those before
before
8
8 your Honor.
your Honor.
9
9 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Judge,
Judge, II think
think at
at some
some point
point wewe

10
10 have to
have to recognize,
recognize, and
and II think
think your
your Honor
Honor just
just did,
did, that
that
1n
11 this case
this case is
is actually
actually proceeding
proceeding onon March 25th. That
March 25th. That has
has
12
12 to be
to be the
the schedule
schedule that
that takes
takes priority.
priority.
13
13 The problem
The problem is
is that
that the
the decisions
decisions on
on the
the motions
motions inin
14
14 limine are
limine are going
going to
to shape
shape the
the contours
contours of
of jury
jury selection,
selection,
15
15 the opening,
the opening, the
the scope
scope ofof the
the direct.
direct. It's
It's just
just
16
16 unreasonable to
unreasonable to get
get aa decision
decision closer
closer than
than the
the current
current
17
17 schedule contemplates,
schedule contemplates, aa decision
decision closer
closer to
to the
the date of
date of

18
18 trial, which
trial, which isis now
now March 25th. So
March 25th. So we'd
we'd ask
ask you
you to
to adhere
adhere
19
19 to the
to the schedule
schedule that
that you
you originally
originally set.
set.
20
20 THE COURT:
THE COURT: AsAs both
both parties
parties know,
know, during
during the
the
21
21 pendency
pendency ofof this
this case,
case, II have
have been
been very
very flexible
flexible onon many
many

22
22 occasions when
occasions when I've
I've been asked to
been asked to move
move deadlines,
deadlines, not
not just
just
23
23 by few days,
by few days, even
even by
by weeks.
weeks. II haven't
haven't had
had aa problem
problem with
with
24
24 that. At
that. At this
this point,
point, though,
though, the
the issue
issue is
is that
that if
if be
be move
move
25
25 the February
the February 22nd
22nd date,
date, we have to
we have to move
move the
the February
February 29th
29th
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 24
24

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 date.
date. IfIf we
we move the February
move the February 29th
29th date,
date, it
it gives
gives me
me less
less
2
2 time to
time to decide
decide the
the motions
motions inin limine.
limine.
3
3 I'm fairly
I'm fairly certain
certain that
that if
if I'm
I'm late
late in
in deciding
deciding the
the
4
4 motions
motions inin limine,
limine, II will
will receive
receive aa motion
motion toto delay
delay the
the
5
5 start of
start of the
the trial
trial on
on March
March 25th.
25th. WeWe are
are not
not going
going to
to
6
6 delay the
delay the deadline
deadline of
of February
February 22nd.
22nd.
7
7 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Your
Your Honor,
Honor, as
as it
it relates
relates toto any
any
8
8 sandoval notice
Sandoval notice that
that we
we expect
expect to
to receive,
receive, can
can you
you direct
direct
9
9 that the
that the People
People provide such notice
provide such notice in
in advance
advance of
of the
the 22nd
22nd
10
10 to, again,
to, again, to
to help
help make
make the
the motion
motion inin limine
limine process
process more
more

n
11 efficient?
efficient?

12
12 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: II believe
believe the
the statute
statute says
says 1515
13
13 days before the
days before the commencement
commencement of of trial.
trial. To To the
the extent
extent that
that
14
14 we're in aa position
we're in position toto do
do it
it earlier,
earlier, wewe can
can and
and will.
will.
15
15 We've greatly exceeded
We've greatly exceeded our
our obligations
obligations in in this
this regard
regard inin
16
16 terms of
terms of what
what we've
we've been providing to
been providing to counsel.
counsel. SoSo if
if we
we
17
17 can do
can do that,
that, wewe certainly
certainly will.
will.
18
18 THE COURT:
THE COURT: If If you
you can
can do
do that,
that, I'd
I'd appreciate
appreciate
19
19 it, but
it, certainly no
but certainly no later
later than
than March 10th.
March 10th.

20
20 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Thank
Thank you.
you.
21
21 THE COURT:
THE COURT: II certainly
certainly want
want to
to hear
hear whatever
whatever
22
22 other issues
other issues you
you both
both have.
have. II did
did want
want to
to talk
talk briefly
briefly

23
23 about jury
about jury selection.
selection. II don't
don't know
know how
how far
far we're
we're going
going toto
24
24 be able to
be able to get
get into
into it,
it, but you received
but you received my email that
my email that II
25
25 sent last
sent last night,
night, right?
right?
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 25
25

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Yes.
Yes.

2
2 THE COURT:
THE COURT: As you
As you may recall, in
may recall, in the
the People
People v.
v.
3
3 the Trump
the Trump Organization
Organization trial,
trial, II had
had suggested
suggested that
that we
we
4
4 excuse those
excuse those jurors
jurors who
who believe that they
believe that they could
could not
not be fair
be fair

5
5 or impartial,
or impartial, or
or who
who could
could not
not sit
sit for
for whatever
whatever reason
reason on
on
6
6 this case,
this case, by
by aa show
show of
of hands.
hands. II suggested
suggested we excuse those
we excuse those
7
7 jurors.
jurors. Which,
Which, by the way,
by the way, is
is not
not something
something II would
would
8
8 normally do.
normally do. But
But I've
I've been
been convinced
convinced that
that if
if people
people
9
9 couldn't be
couldn't fair, they
be fair, they couldn't
couldn't be fair.
be fair.

10
10 The defense
The defense rejected
rejected that
that suggestion,
suggestion, and
and we
we wound
wound upup
n
11 going into
going into the
the jury
jury room
room and
and questioning
questioning every
every single
single juror
juror
12
12 who raised their
who raised their hand.
hand. We did that
We did that for
for the
the entire
entire first
first
13
13 panel.
panel. After doing that,
After doing that, the
the defense
defense realized
realized that
that it
it
14
14 perhaps
perhaps was not the
was not the most efficient use
most efficient use of
of time.
time. II agreed
agreed
15
15 that with
that with other
other panels, if someone
panels, if someone raised
raised their
their hand,
hand, they
they
16
16 will
will be excused without
be excused further questioning.
without further questioning.
17
17 My email to
My email to you
you last
last night
night was just to
was just to inquire
inquire whether
whether

18
18 you had
you had an
an opportunity
opportunity toto discuss
discuss this
this with
with co-counsel,
co-counsel,
19
19 with your client,
with your client, and
and what
what your
your position
position isis on
on this.
this.
20
20 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Thank
Thank you,
you, your
your Honor.
Honor. We did
We did

21
21 receive the
receive the email
email and
and have
have discussed
discussed it
it briefly.
briefly. II wasn't
wasn't

22
22 at the
at the last
last trial,
trial, but
but II spoke
spoke to
to the
the folks
folks who
who were.
were. We We
23
23 think that
think that aa hybrid
hybrid is
is appropriate,
appropriate, ifif II can
can suggest
suggest that.
that.
24
24 What
What II mean
mean by that is,
by that is, II appreciate
appreciate the
the efficiency
efficiency ofof
25
25 excusing aa juror
excusing juror who
who cannot
cannot serve
serve for
for any
any number
number of
of reasons
reasons
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 26
26

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 that we
that we all
all see
see every day, whether
every day, whether they
they have
have some
some sort
sort of
of
2
2 hardship, or
hardship, or disability,
disability, or
or other
other practical
practical thing
thing in
in their
their
3
3 lives that
lives that just
just prevents them from
prevents them from serving,
serving, like
like in
in any
any
4
4 case.
case.

5
5 However, we
However, we would
would ask
ask that
that the
the questions,
questions, as
as they
they
6
6 relate to
relate to President
President Trump
Trump himself,
himself, so
so whether
whether aa juror
juror
7
7 cannot be
cannot be fair
fair and
and impartial
impartial because
because of
of the
the defendant,
defendant,
8
8 President Trump
President Trump himself,
himself, we
we think
think that
that should
should be
be part
part of
of
9
9 the normal
the normal questions.
questions. The reason
The reason is,
is, we
we very
very much
much
10
10 anticipate, if
anticipate, if appropriate,
appropriate, making a venue
making a venue change
change motion.
motion.
n
11 If the
If the excuse
excuse for
for cause
cause automatically,
automatically, jurors
jurors are
are
12
12 excused for
excused for any
any number
number of
of reasons,
reasons, II think
think we
we miss,
miss, the
the
13
13 Court, and the
Court, and the People
People miss
miss understanding
understanding which
which one
one of
of those
those
14
14 can't serve
can't serve because
because ofof the
the reason,
reason, that
that would be relevant
would be relevant
15
15 to aa change
to change of
of venue
venue motion.
motion.

16
16 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Okay.
Okay.
17
17 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: It's
It's ironic
ironic that
that counsel
counsel is
is
18
18 concerned about
concerned about the
the duration
duration ofof the
the trial,
trial, and
and yet
yet wants
wants to
to
19
19 basically individually voir
basically individually voir dire every juror
dire every juror who
who is
is content
content
20
20 to leave
to leave if
if they
they say
say they
they can't
can't be fair and
be fair and impartial.
impartial.
21
21 It's perplexing
It's perplexing that
that counsel
counsel would
would seek
seek to
to rehabilitate
rehabilitate
22
22 such aa juror
such juror when
when we
we all
all know,
know, we'll
we'll never
never be
be able
able to
to
23
23 rehabilitate aa juror
rehabilitate juror who
who can't
can't even
even get
get passed the
passed the

24
24 screening questions,
screening questions, that
that they
they can
can be
be fair
fair and
and impartial.
impartial.
25
25 So II believe
So believe that
that the
the hybrid
hybrid proposal
proposal that
that counsel
counsel has
has
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 27
27

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 proposed will extend
proposed will extend jury
jury selection
selection by a week.
by a week. IfIf we
we get
get
2
2 80 panelists,
80 panelists, 6060 of
of them
them are
are going
going to
to try
try to
to get
get off
off for
for
3
3 either scheduling
either scheduling reasons
reasons oror because
because they
they have
have aa bias
bias one
one
4
4 way or the
way or the other.
other. We We can
can go
go through
through that
that charade,
charade, but
but
5
5 that's what
that's what it's
it's going
going to
to be,
be, aa time
time consuming
consuming charade.
charade.
6
6 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: I'm
I'm not
not trying
trying to
to be
be ironic.
ironic. I'm I'm
7
7 not trying
not trying to
to go
go through
through aa charade.
charade. Selecting
Selecting aa jury,
jury, aa
8
8 fair and
fair and impartial
impartial jury
jury is
is not
not aa charade.
charade. TheThe fact
fact that
that II
9
9 would like to
would like to create
create aa record
record and
and make
make sure
sure that
that we
we
10
10 understand the
understand the veneer
veneer and
and their
their motivation
motivation isis not
not irony.
irony.
n
11 THE COURT:
THE COURT: That's
That's fine.
fine. YouYou don't
don't have
have toto
12
12 consent to
consent to that.
that. That's
That's perfectly
perfectly fine.
fine. II don't
don't feel
feel
13
13 comfortable with
comfortable with aa hybrid
hybrid solution.
solution. II believe
believe that
that leaves
leaves
14
14 too much
too room for
much room for error
error on
on my
my part
part and
and on
on everybody
everybody else's
else's
15
15 part.
part. I I think
think what
what we are going
we are going to
to do
do is
is question
question every
every
16
16 single person
single person who
who raises
raises their
their hand.
hand.
17
17 Between now
Between now and
and the
the start
start of
of trial,
trial, you
you may want to
may want to
18
18 think about
think about what
what my
my preliminary instructions will
preliminary instructions will be,
be, and
and
19
19 perhaps that will
perhaps that will affect
affect your
your decision.
decision.
20
20 So in
So in addition
addition toto instructing
instructing the
the prospective
prospective jurors
jurors
21
21 on matters
on matters of
of the
the law,
law, and
and the
the conduct
conduct of
of the
the juror,
juror, andand
22
22 the purpose
the of aa trial,
purpose of trial, and
and things
things of
of that
that nature,
nature, for
for aa
23
23 case such
case such as
as this,
this, II would
would also,
also, if
if requested
requested to,
to, provide
provide aa
24
24 little bit
little bit of
of information
information about
about the
the case
case itself.
itself.
25
25 Certainly, the prospective
Certainly, the prospective jurors
jurors will
will be
be told
told and
and know
know who
who

Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 28
28

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 the defendant
the defendant is
is in
in this
this case.
case. So that
So that when
when II ask
ask for
for aa
2
2 show of
show of hands,
hands, they've
they've already
already had
had that
that information.
information.
3
3 You can
You can think
think about
about that.
that. If you
If you don't
don't want
want to
to
4
4 consent, that's
consent, that's perfectly fine.
perfectly fine.

5
5 Having dealt
Having dealt with
with that,
that, II want
want to
to turn
turn aa little
little bit
bit to
to
6
6 the jury
the jury questionnaire.
questionnaire. II want
want to
to thank
thank you
you both
both for
for
7
7 submitting your
submitting your proposed questions, and
proposed questions, and having
having gone
gone through
through
8
8 the questionnaire.
the questionnaire. That was
That was very
very helpful.
helpful.
9
9 What
What II would like to
would like to do
do now
now is
is go
go through
through those
those
10
10 questions that
questions that appear
appear to
to be
be in
in dispute
dispute and
and hear
hear why the
why the

n
11 People either
People either agree
agree or
or disagree,
disagree, and
and whether
whether the
the defendant
defendant
12
12 either agrees
either agrees or
or disagrees.
disagrees.
13
13 My notes indicate
My notes indicate that
that the
the first
first such
such question
question isis
14
14 question number
question number 30.
30. Is
Is that
that right?
right?
15
15 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Actually,
Actually, Judge,
Judge, II think
think
16
16 question 10
question 10 is
is the
the first
first question
question that
that there
there is
is aa
17
17 disagreement on.
disagreement on.
18
18 THE COURT:
THE COURT: SoSo question
question number
number 10,
10, that
that isis aa
19
19 defense request.
defense request. It It is:
is: Which
Which of
of the
the following
following print
print
20
20 publications, cable, and/or
publications, cable, and/or network
network programs,
programs, or
or online
online
21
21 media such as
media such as websites,
websites, blogs, or social
blogs, or social media platforms do
media platforms do
22
22 you visit,
you read, or
visit, read, or watch? Then there's
watch? Then there's aa list
list of
of such
such
23
23 outlets. II didn't
outlets. didn't see
see that
that the
the People
People objected
objected to
to that,
that,
24
24 but I'11 hear
but I'll hear you
you on
on it.
it.
25
25 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Judge,
Judge, if
if you
you flip
flip back
back toto aa
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 29
29

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 page, the prosecution
page, the prosecution has
has aa version of that
version of that question
question as
as
2
2 well.
well. TheThe main
main difference is that
difference is that it
it adds
adds aa more equitable
more equitable

3
3 list of
list of potential sources of
potential sources of news.
news. It's
It's really
really just
just aa
4
4 dispute over
dispute over which
which publications
publications oror websites
websites toto include
include onon
5
5 the list.
the list.
6
6 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Does
Does your
your list
list also
also include
include every
every
7
7 publication and or
publication and or outlet
outlet that
that the
the defense
defense wants
wants to
to have?
have?
8
8 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Yes.
Yes.
s
9 THE COURT:
THE COURT: SoSo the
the issue
issue is
is that
that the
the defense
defense may
may
10
10 not want
not some of
want some of the
the publications
publications the
the People
People want?
want?
1
11 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Yes.
Yes.
12
12 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Can
Can you
you identify
identify them?
them?
13
13 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Yes.
Yes. SoSo the
the defense
defense has
has asked
asked
14
14 for the
for the New York Times,
New York Times, USA
USA Today,
Today, the
the New
New York
York Daily
Daily News,
News,
15
15 Huffington Post,
Huffington Post, CNN,
CNN, MSNBC,
MSNBC, NPR,
NPR, Google,
Google, Facebook,
Facebook,
16
16 Tuitter, The
Twitter, The Wall Street Journal,
Wall Street Journal, New
New York
York Post,
Post, Newsday,
Newsday,
17
17 Washington Post, Fox
Washington Post, Fox News,
News, Newsmax,
Newsmax, MSN, Yahoo, Truth
MSN, Yahoo, Truth
18
18 Social, and
Social, and TikTok.
TikTok. II think
think Truth
Truth Social
Social may
may have
have been
been
19
19 suggested by
suggested by us.
us.
20
20 We propose adding
We propose adding the
the following,
following, The
The Sean
Sean Hannity,
Hannity, The
The
2
21 Tucker Carlson
Tucker Carlson Network,
Network, the
the Alex Jones Show,
Alex Jones Show, Infowars,
Infowars, the
the
22
22 Mark Levin Show,
Mark Levin Show, and
and The
The Ben
Ben Shapiro
Shapiro Show.
Show.
23
23 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Okay.
Okay. ByBy the
the way, I'm not
way, I'm not going
going toto
2
24 rule on
rule on any
any of
of these
these today.
today. I'm
I'm going
going to
to order
order the
the
25
25 transcript and
transcript and hear
hear the
the respective
respective arguments.
arguments. WhyWhy are
are you
you
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 30
30

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 opposing those
opposing those publications
publications and
and media outlets?
media outlets?

2
2 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Your Honor,
Your Honor, maybe it wasn't
maybe it wasn't
3
3 obvious, but
obvious, but they've
they've just
just chosen
chosen to
to add
add some
some
4
4 extraordinarily conservative
extraordinarily conservative shows
shows to
to help
help potentially
potentially
5
5 identify folks
identify folks who
who may
may be
be more
more likely
likely to
to be
be aligned
aligned with
with

6
6 President Trump.
President Trump. The joint
The joint agreement
agreement already
already includes
includes Fox.
Fox.
7
7 So what
So what we did not
we did not ask,
ask, what we would
what we certainly want,
would certainly if
want, if

8
8 the Hannity
the Hannity Show
Show is
is going to be
going to be included,
included, is
is Rachel
Rachel Maddow.
Maddow.

9
9 We can come
We can come up
up with
with aa list
list of
of super
super liberal
liberal shows
shows that
that we
we
10
10 can add
can add as
as well.
well.
n
11 We thought that
We thought that our
our proposal,
proposal, which
which includes
includes MSNBC,
MSNBC,
12
12 and Fox
and Fox News, and everything
News, and everything else
else the
the People
People just
just said,
said,
13
13 will give all
will give all of
of us
us an
an assessment
assessment of
of the
the potential
potential jurors,
jurors,
14
14 what they listen
what they listen to.
to. Once
Once you
you dive
dive down
down deeper
deeper to
to
15
15 particular 9:00 p.m.
particular 9:00 and 10:00
p.m. and 10:00 p.m.
p.m. shows
shows on
on cable
cable news
news
16
16 networks, it
networks, it just
just seems
seems that
that we're
we're going
going forever.
forever.
17
17 II will
will say
say that
that if
if the
the Court
Court is
is inclined
inclined to
to include
include
18
18 some of
some of the
the very
very conservative
conservative shows
shows that
that the
the People
People have
have
19
19 suggested, we
suggested, we would
would request
request to
to submit
submit aa similar
similar number
number ofof
20
20 what we would
what we view as
would view as more
more liberal
liberal shows.
shows.
21
21 THE COURT:
THE COURT: People,
People, why
why do
do you
you think
think it
it would
would be
be

22
22 appropriate to
appropriate to include
include those
those outlets?
outlets?
23
23 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: DidDid you
you say
say why?
why?
24
24 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Yes.
Yes.
25
25 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: It It seems
seems that
that the
the list
list suggested
suggested
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 a
31

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 by the defense
by the defense is
is already
already aa little
little skewed
skewed towards
towards left
left
2
2 leading shows.
leading shows. ToTo bebe honest,
honest, we
we were
were kind
kind of
of happy
happy with
with

3
3 Your Honor's
Your Honor's original
original question
question on
on the
the questionnaire
questionnaire that
that
4
4 was used on
was used on the
the last
last trial
trial which
which basically
basically asked
asked
5
5 prospective jurors where
prospective jurors where they
they get
get their
their news.
news.
6
6 Defense preferred
Defense preferred aa list
list of
of potential
potential outlets,
outlets, but
but we
we

7
7 thought the
thought the list
list was
was aa little
little skewed
skewed toto the
the left,
left, so
so we
we
8
8 felt like
felt like it
it was
was necessary
necessary toto add
add some
some on
on the
the right.
right.
9
9 Frankly, if
Frankly, if in
in your
your Honor
Honor wishes
wishes toto eliminate
eliminate this
this
10
10 entire problem,
entire problem, we could just
we could just go
go back
back to
to the
the questions
questions
n
11 asked at
asked at the
the last
last trial,
trial, which
which is
is fine
fine with
with the
the People.
People.
12
12 THE COURT:
THE COURT: I'll
I'll see
see how
how II can
can resolve
resolve this.
this.
13
13 Could be that
Could be that the
the resolution
resolution isis to
to do
do that,
that, just
just eliminate
eliminate
14
14 all the
all the outlets
outlets and
and publications.
publications.

15
15 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Certainly, it's just
Certainly, it's just skewed
skewed one
one way
way

16
16 because there is
because there is aa lot
lot more
more liberal
liberal news
news out
out there.
there.
17
17 THE COURT:
THE COURT: What
What is
is the
the next
next question
question inin dispute?
dispute?
18
18 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: The The next
next question
question inin dispute is
dispute is

19
19 question number
question number 29.
29.
20
20 THE COURT:
THE COURT: It's
It's aa very
very long
long question.
question.
21
21 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: I'm I'm going
going toto direct
direct your
your Honor,
Honor,
22
22 there are
there are two
two versions
versions ofof it.
it. There
There isis the
the prosecution
prosecution

23
23 version, which is
version, which is on
on Page
Page 5,
5, and
and aa longer
longer defense
defense version,
version,
24
24 which is on
which is on Page
Page 6.
6.
25
25 Judge, would
Judge, you be
would you be willing
willing toto have
have me say one
me say one thing,
thing,
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 32
32

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 kind of
kind of zooming
zooming out
out for
for aa second?
second?
2
2 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Sure.
Sure.

3
3 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: There is
There is no
no question
question that
that
4
4 picking
picking aa jury
jury in
in aa case
case involving
involving someone
someone asas familiar
familiar toto
5
5 everyone as
everyone as former
former President
President Trump
Trump poses
poses unique
unique problems.
problems.

6
6 We're all acutely
We're all acutely aware
aware of
of that.
that.
7
7 That said,
That said, we don't necessarily
we don't necessarily have
have to
to reinvent
reinvent the
the
8
8 wheel entirely. AA well
wheel entirely. well regarded
regarded Federal
Federal Judge,
Judge, Judge
Judge
s
9 Kaplan, elected
Kaplan, elected toto ask
ask certain
certain questions
questions in
in an
an effort
effort toto
10
10 probe potential bias
probe potential among prospective
bias among prospective jurors.
jurors. Of course,
Of course,

1n
11 that was
that was aa civil
civil case.
case. It It was
was in
in Federal
Federal Court.
Court. I'mI'm not
not
12
12 saying it's
saying it's binding.
binding. ButBut to
to the
the extent
extent that
that your
your Honor
Honor may
may

13
13 find it
find it useful,
useful, we have copies
we have copies of
of the
the transcript
transcript voir
voir dire
dire
14
14 to share.
to share.
15
15 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Any
Any objection
objection to
to my
my review
review ofof that?
that?
16
16 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: No objection to
No objection to you
you reading
reading it,
it,
17
17 except that
except that we very much
we very object to
much object to the
the Court
Court --
-- we think
we think

18
18 the Court
the Court should
should indeed
indeed reinvent
reinvent the
the wheel
wheel to
to the
the extent
extent
19
19 that Judge
that Judge Kaplan
Kaplan chose
chose certain
certain questions
questions that
that we
we object
object
20
20 to. So
to. So we very much
we very disagree to
much disagree to that.
that.
2
21 THE COURT:
THE COURT: I'mI'm going
going to
to skip
skip that.
that. It's
It's just
just
22
22 very long. II don't
very long. don't want to take
want to take up
up everybody's
everybody's time.
time.
23
23 Looking at
Looking at question
question 30,
30, this
this is
is aa prosecution
prosecution request
request that
that
2
24 the defense
the defense poses.
poses. We may come
We may come back to that
back to that question
question
25
25 later.
later.

Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 33
33

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 Have you
Have you ever
ever considered
considered yourself
yourself aa supporter
supporter of
of or
or
2
2 belong to any
belong to any of
of the
the following:
following: TheThe QAnon
QAnon movement,
movement, Proud
Proud
3
3 Boys, Oathkeepers,
Boys, Oathkeepers, Three
Three Percenters,
Percenters, Boogaloo
Boogaloo Boys,
Boys, Antifa,
Antifa,

4
4 or any
or any other
other anarchist
anarchist group?
group?
5
5 Now this
Now this is
is aa prosecution
prosecution request.
request. Why would you
Why would you like
like
6
6 to have
to have that
that question.
question.
7
7 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: I'll
I'll first
first point
point out
out that
that this
this
8
8 is aa pared
is pared down
down version
version of
of aa question
question that
that was
was asked
asked in
in the
the
9
9 E. Jean
E. Jean Carroll
Carroll case.
case. The
The point
point here
here is
is to
to identify
identify jurors
jurors
10
10 who are just
who are just against
against the
the system
system on
on either
either side,
side, that's
that's why
why
n
11 we included Antifa,
we included Antifa, we actually added
we actually added to
to the
the question
question other
other
12
12 anarchist groups.
anarchist groups.
13
13 This case
This case is
is the
the type
type of
of case
case that
that may attract people
may attract people

14
14 who are against
who are against the
the system
system on
on one
one side
side or
or the
the other.
other. So So
15
15 this is
this is an
an effort
effort toto kind
kind of
of identify
identify and
and eliminate
eliminate
16
16 extremists on
extremists on both
both sides.
sides. IfIf there
there is
is more
more extreme
extreme leftist
leftist
17
17 groups that
groups that the
the defense
defense would like to
would like to identify
identify and
and include
include
18
18 on that
on that list
list besides
besides Antifa, that's mine.
Antifa, that's mine.

19
19 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Can
Can you
you tell
tell me
me why
why you
you oppose
oppose this?
this?
20
20 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Your
Your Honor's
Honor's standard
standard instructions,
instructions,
21
21 and II assume
and assume anan instruction
instruction that
that regularly
regularly given
given to
to the
the
22
22 jury both
jury both in
in the
the jury
jury selection
selection process and during
process and during the
the
23
23 trial, is
trial, is to
to make sure they're
make sure they're going
going to
to follow
follow the
the law.
law. To To
24
24 inflame and
inflame and inject
inject the
the names
names of
of these
these fringe
fringe groups,
groups, which
which
25
25 is not
is not done
done in
in jury
jury selection,
selection, and
and II appreciate
appreciate Judge
Judge
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 34
34

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 Kaplan may
Kaplan may have
have done that, but
done that, but it's
it's not
not done in jury
done in jury
2
2 selection.
selection. This courthouse
This courthouse does not have
does not have issues
issues with
with
3
3 jurors not
jurors not following
following the
the law,
law, unless
unless they're
they're identified
identified as
as
4
4 a member
a member of
of some
some fringe
fringe group.
group.

5
5 Not only
Not only that,
that, but to the
but to the extent
extent there
there is
is aa particular
particular
6
6 juror that
juror that the
the People
People want
want to
to ask
ask aa particular question to,
particular question to,
7
7 if there
if there is
is something
something in
in that
that juror's
juror's answer
answer that
that warrants
warrants
8
8 it, they'll
it, they'll have
have an
an opportunity
opportunity to
to do
do that.
that. We just very
We just very
9
9 much think this
much think this is
is an
an inappropriate
inappropriate question.
question.
10
10 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Looking
Looking at
at question
question 31,
31, this
this is
is aa
n
11 prosecution request. The
prosecution request. The defense
defense objects.
objects. DoDo any
any of
of you
you
12
12 believe that the
believe that the 2020
2020 presidential
presidential election
election was stolen?
was stolen?

13
13 People, can
People, can you
you tell
tell me
me why you would
why you like that
would like that question?
question?

14
14 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Yes,
Yes, Judge.
Judge. II point
point out,
out, once
once
15
15 again, this
again, this is
is another
another question
question that
that was
was taken
taken from
from the
the E.
E.
16
16 Jean Carroll
Jean Carroll case.
case. II want
want to
to be
be clear
clear here,
here, the
the point
point isis
17
17 not to
not to elicit
elicit information
information on
on political
political affiliation,
affiliation, which
which

18
18 we have
we have opposed
opposed elsewhere,
elsewhere, asas you'll
you'll see
see as
as we
we get
get later
later on on
19
19 in this
in this questionnaire
questionnaire that
that there
there are
are some
some questions
questions that
that wewe
20
20 oppose because
oppose because they're
they're proxies
proxies for
for political
political affiliation.
affiliation.
21
21 The problem
The problem is
is that
that an
an affirmative
affirmative answer
answer here
here kind
kind ofof
22
22 demonstrates
demonstrates an an unwillingness
unwillingness to to follow
follow the
the facts
facts and
and kind
kind
23
23 of blindly
of blindly rely
rely on
on statements
statements that
that have
have been
been made by the
made by the
24
24 defendant.
defendant. TheThe concern
concern is
is that
that jurors
jurors who
who would
would answer
answer
25
25 that question
that question inin the
the affirmative
affirmative may be less
may be less willing
willing to
to
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 35
35

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 follow Your
follow Your Honor's
Honor's instructions,
instructions, not
not withstanding
withstanding the
the fact
fact
2
2 that they
that they say
say they
they can.
can. That's why
That's the question
why the question was
was asked
asked
3
3 in E.
in E. Jean
Jean Carroll,
Carroll, and
and that's
that's why
why we'd
we'd ask
ask you
you to
to ask
ask it.
it.
4
4 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Counsel.
Counsel.

5
5 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Judge, asking
Judge, asking that
that question
question for
for the
the
6
6 reasons that
reasons that the
the People
People justify,
justify, is
is completely
completely
7
7 inappropriate.
inappropriate. There is
There is no
no --
-- over
over half
half the
the population
population of
of
8
8 this country
this country believe
believe that
that the
the election
election was
was stolen.
stolen. This
This

9
9 trial is
trial is not
not going
going to
to solve
solve that.
that. So asking
So asking aa juror
juror their
their
10
10 views about that
views about that --
-- well, as you
well, as you will
will see
see the
the People
People
1n
11 strenuously object
strenuously object to
to questions
questions around
around political
political
12
12 affiliation. This
affiliation. This case
case could
could have
have been
been brought
brought before
before

13
13 there was
there was any
any investigation
investigation inin the
the election.
election. It It just
just has
has
14
14 nothing to
nothing to do
do with
with the
the facts
facts of
of this
this case.
case.
15
15 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Question
Question 32,
32, this
this is
is aa prosecution
prosecution
16
16 request: Do
request: Do you
you have
have any
any strong
strong opinions
opinions oror firmly
firmly held
held
17
17 beliefs about whether
beliefs about whether aa former
former president
president should
should bebe

18
18 criminally prosecuted?
criminally prosecuted?
19
19 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: I'mI'm not
not sure
sure we disagreed on
we disagreed on
20
20 this one,
this one, Judge.
Judge.
21
21 THE COURT:
THE COURT: II see
see here
here the
the People
People may request aa
may request

22
22 curative instruction
curative instruction ifif any
any prospective juror misstates
prospective juror misstates the
the
23
23 Law.
law.

24
24 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: In In other
other words,
words, ifif aa juror
juror says
says
25
25 something like,
something like, we don't believe
we don't believe that,
that, or
or II don't
don't believe
believe
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 36
36

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 that aa former
that former president
president is
is legally
legally allowed
allowed to
to be
be criminally
criminally
2
2 charge, we'd
charge, ask your
we'd ask your Honor
Honor to
to cure
cure that
that misperception lest
misperception lest

3
3 it infects
it infects the
the other
other panelists,
panelists, that's
that's all.
all. That's only
That's only if
if
4
4 a juror
a juror says
says that.
that.
5
5 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: That's certainly
That's certainly something
something that
that is
is
6
6 not settled.
not settled. I'm not
I'm not sure
sure how
how the
the Court
Court will
will instruct
instruct that
that
7
7 prospective juror, as
prospective juror, as aa matter of law,
matter of law, that
that that's
that's the
the case
case
8
8 if we
if we start
start on
on March
March 25th.
25th. Unless,
Unless, II suppose,
suppose, something
something
s
9 happens between
happens now and
between now and then
then with
with the
the Supreme
Supreme Court.
Court.
10
10 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Would
Would it
it be
be all
all right
right if
if we
we change
change
1
11 the question
the question to
to whether
whether a a former
former president
president could
could bebe
12
12 criminally charged
criminally charged in
in State
State Court,
Court, would
would that
that make
make aa
13
13 difference?
difference? Mr. Blanche.
Mr. Blanche.

14
14 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: We We can
can live
live with
with that.
that.
15
15 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: I'mI'm very sorry, your
very sorry, your Honor.
Honor.
16
16 THE COURT:
THE COURT: II was asking, would
was asking, it make
would it make aa
17
17 difference to
difference to you
you if
if we
we limit
limit that
that question
question toto State
State
18
18 Criminal proceedings,
Criminal proceedings, andand not
not just
just criminal
criminal proceedings
proceedings in in
19
19 general? The issue
general? The issue of
of the
the State
State proceedings
proceedings II don't
don't
20
20 believe is for
believe is for the
the Supreme
Supreme Court.
Court.
2
21 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: CanCan we think about
we think about that?
that?
22
22 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Sure.
Sure. Question
Question 33,
33, is
is there
there anybody
anybody
23
23 who feels that
who feels that Mr.
Mr. Trump
Trump is
is being treated unfairly
being treated unfairly by by the
the
2
24 Court system?
Court system?
25
25 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Judge,
Judge, the
the People
People suggest
suggest that
that
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 37
37

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 if aa juror
if juror answers
answers this
this question in the
question in the affirmative,
affirmative, there
there
2
2 is no
is no oath
oath that
that can
can cure
cure this.
this. If the
If the think
think this
this whole
whole
3
3 thing is
thing is rigged,
rigged, or
or whatever you know
whatever you know people
people are
are willing
willing to
to
4
4 believe,
believe, ifif someone
someone answers
answers this
this question
question in
in the
the
5
5 affirmative, they
affirmative, they just
just can't
can't be
be aa juror.
juror. There
There isis no
no
6
6 rehabilitating.
rehabilitating.

7
7 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Judge,
Judge, II think
think almost,
almost, again,
again,
8
8 80 percent
80 percent of
of the
the country
country think
think that
that there
there isis some
some level
level ofof
9
9 extreme unfairness
extreme unfairness in in the
the Criminal
Criminal Justice
Justice system
system and
and
10
10 what's happening to
what's happening to President
President Trump.
Trump. So So to
to say
say an
an
n
11 affirmative answer
affirmative answer from
from somebody,
somebody, that
that their
their view
view isis
12
12 something is
something is unfair
unfair as
as to
to what
what happened
happened to
to President
President Trump,
Trump,
13
13 does not, in
does not, in and
and of
of itself,
itself, get us anywhere.
get us anywhere. That's
That's aa
14
14 principle that II think
principle that think everybody
everybody has
has accepted.
accepted.
15
15 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Thank
Thank you.
you. I'm
I'm going
going to
to jump
jump ahead
ahead
16
16 to question
to question 36.
36. You
You made just kind
made just kind of
of move
move ahead
ahead more
more
17
17 quickly. Question
quickly. Question 36,
36, this
this is
is aa defense
defense request,
request, based
based onon
18
18 anything that
anything that you
you have
have read,
read, seen,
seen, or
or heard
heard about
about this
this
19
19 case, or
case, or other
other cases
cases brought
brought against
against Donald
Donald J.J. Trump,
Trump, do do
20
20 you have
you have aa desire
desire to
to see
see him
him either
either convicted
convicted oror acquitted?
acquitted?
21
21 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: What we argue
What we argue is
is that
that if
if you
you read
read
22
22 the rest
the rest of
of the
the questions
questions inin total,
total, this
this is
is an
an appropriate
appropriate
23
23 question to
question to understand
understand whether
whether there
there is
is anything
anything outside
outside of of
24
24 this courtroom
this courtroom that's
that's going
going to
to influence
influence that
that juror's
juror's
25
25 ultimate decision,
ultimate decision, aside
aside from
from the
the evidence
evidence presented
presented in in
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 38
38

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 this case.
this case.
2
2 So if,
So if, for
for example, there is
example, there is aa reason
reason that
that aa
3
3 prospective juror wants
prospective juror wants to
to see
see President
President Trump
Trump convicted
convicted so so
4
4 that he
that he maybe is unsuccessful
maybe is unsuccessful in in the
the election,
election, that's
that's
5
5 something that
something that everybody
everybody hopefully
hopefully wants
wants to
to know.
know.
6
6 similarly, if
Similarly, if there
there is
is aa juror
juror who outright doesn't
who outright doesn't
7
7 care about
care about the
the evidence,
evidence, but
but wants
wants President
President Trump
Trump
8
8 acquitted because
acquitted because hehe thinks
thinks he's
he's being
being railroaded,
railroaded, II would
would
9
9 love that
love that juror.
juror. ButBut II don't think that
don't think that that's
that's aa question
question
10
10 that would
that would be
be fair
fair and
and appropriate.
appropriate.
n
11 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Would
Would you
you like
like to
to respond?
respond?
12
12 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Judge,
Judge, II think
think the
the problem
problem here
here
13
13 is that
is that the
the way the question
way the question isis phrased about people's
phrased about people's
14
14 desire to
desire to see
see the
the defendant
defendant either
either convicted
convicted or
or acquitted,
acquitted,
15
15 desire is
desire is not
not the
the issue.
issue. The
The issue
issue is
is bias.
bias. CanCan any
any
16
16 prospective juror be
prospective juror be fair
fair to
to both
both sides?
sides? That's
That's what
what we
we
17
17 want. Can aa juror
want. Can juror be
be fair
fair to
to both
both sides?
sides? ToTo the
the extent
extent
18
18 the question
the question is
is probing that, II think
probing that, think is
is redundant
redundant with
with
19
19 many of the
many of the other
other questions
questions that
that are
are aimed
aimed at
at probing
probing
20
20 exactly that.
exactly that.
21
21 THE COURT:
THE COURT: I'mI'm jumping
jumping ahead
ahead to
to 39,
39, which
which is
is aa
22
22 defense request.
defense request. There's
There's aa note
note in
in the
the bottom
bottom here
here that
that
23
23 says, the
says, the People
People oppose
oppose this
this request
request unless
unless the
the Court also
Court also

24
24 asks prosecution
asks prosecution request
request 40.
40. SoSo question
question 39
33 is:
is: Have
Have you
you
25
25 read or
read or listened
listened to
to audio
audio of
of any
any of
of the
the following
following books
books oror
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 39
39

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 Pods by
Pods by Michael
Michael Cohen or Mark
Cohen or Mark Pomerantz:
Pomerantz: Disloyal
Disloyal --
--
2
2 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Not to
Not to interrupt,
interrupt, Judge3,
Judge3, but
but II
3
3 think that
think that both
both sides
sides kind
kind of
of agree
agree on
on this,
this, that
that if
if we're
we're
4
4 going to
going to do
do --
==
5
5 THE COURT:
THE COURT: You agree
You agree on
on 39
39 and
and 40?
40?
6
6 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: I think
I think we
we do
do agree
agree on
on 39
39 and
and
7
7 40.
40. We only oppose
We only oppose 39
39 if
if they
they oppose
oppose 40,
40, but
but II don't think
don't think

8
8 they do.
they do.
s
9 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: We object to
We object to 40.
40. MyMy understanding
understanding
10
10 was the People
was the People would
would oppose
oppose 39
39 unless
unless 40
40 was
was asked.
asked. We We

1
11 believe
believe 3939 is
is appropriate
appropriate for
for much
much different
different reasons.
reasons.
12
12 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Let's
let's me finish reading
me finish reading 39.
39. Have
Have you
you
13
13 read or
read or listened
listened to
to audio
audio of
of any
any of
of the
the following
following books
books or
or
14
14 Podcasts by
Podcasts by Michael
Michael Cohen
Cohen oror Mark Pomerantz: Disloyal-a
Mark Pomerantz: Disloyal-a
15
15 Memoir,
Memoir, Mea Culpa, the
Mea Culpa, the podcast,
podcast, Revenge-2022,
Revenge-2022, and
and People
People v.
v.
16
16 Donald Trump-2023?
Donald Trump-2023?
17
17 Jumping ahead
Jumping ahead to
to question
question 40,
40, which
which is
is the
the prosecution
prosecution

18
18 request: Have
request: Have you
you read
read or
or listened
listened to
to audio
audio of
of any
any of
of
19
19 following books
following books written
written my Donald Trump:
my Donald Trump: The
The Art
Art ofof the
the
20
20 Deal, Surviving
Deal, Surviving atat the
the Top,
Top, The
The Art of the
Art of the Comeback,
Comeback, The
The
2
21 America
America We Deserve, How
We Deserve, How to
to Get
Get Rich,
Rich, The
The way
way to
to the
the Top-The
Top-The
22
22 Best Business
Best Business Advice
Advice II Ever
Ever Received,
Received, Think
Think Like
Like aa
23
23 Billionaire-Everything You
Billionaire-Everything You Need
Need to
to Know
Know About Success, Real
About Success, Real
2
24 Estate and
Estate and Life,
Life, Why
Why We
We Want to be
Want to Rich, How
be Rich, How to
to Build
Build aa
25
25 Fortune-Your Plan
Fortune-Your Plan for
for Success
Success From
From the
the World's
World's Most
Most Famous
Famous
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 0
40

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 Businessman, and there is
Businessman, is a number of others.
others. I'll just
So I'll

2 these and decide.

have to look at these decide.

3
3 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: We have a
We have a reason,
reason, for
for sure.
sure. The
The

4
4 reason that we believe it's appropriate to ask jurors about
reason that we believe it's appropriate to ask jurors about

5
5 the books
the and pods
books and pods in
in 39
39 is
is those
those are
are publications
publications and
and
5
6 Podcasts that
Podcasts that directly
directly discuss
discuss the
the facts
facts of
of this
this case.
case.
7 Books that
Books that President Trump wrote some of which are almost
almost

88 40 years old, and do not discuss the facts of this case.

40 years old, and do not discuss the facts of this case.

5
9 So there's
So there's aa very
very different
different reason
reason that
that we think 39
we think 39 is
is
10
10 100 percent
100 appropriate. Going
percent appropriate. Going into
into aa deep
deep dive
dive whether
whether
1
11 someone read
someone read Art of the
Art of the Deal
Deal if
if high
high school
school is
is not
not
12
12 --
something --

13
13 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Why do
Why do you
you think
think you
you need
need to
to know
know
14
14 that?
that?

15
15 MR. STEINGLASS: Judge,
MR. STEINGLASS: Judge, in
in any
any other
other case,
case, if
if the
the
16
16 defendant had
defendant had written
written aa book, that would
book, that would be
be aa fair
fair question
question
17
17 to ask
to ask jurors,
jurors, whether
whether they
they read
read that
that book.
book. You
You know,
know, IIT
18
18 that might probe juror's opinions about
think that about Mr.
Mr. Trump,
Trump,

19
19 especially if they read 15 of them. So
especially if they read 15 of them. think if
So II think we're
if we're
20
20 going to be
going to be asking
asking --
-- II do acknowledge it's
do acknowledge it's aa little
little bit
bit
2
21 different because
different because the
the books
books that
that were
were referenced
referenced in
in
22 39, some
question 39, some overlap with facts in
in this case
case and the
the

23 books in 40 don't.
books in don't.

24
24 is to
The point is to probe bias,
bias, and I
I think 40 helps
helps probe

25
25 potential bias. It's
potential bias. It's not
not in
in and
and of
of itself
itself an
an affirmative
affirmative
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior Court Reporter
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior Court Reporter
 a
41

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 answer.
answer. It's not
It's not aa cause
cause challenge,
challenge, but
but it's
it's something
something we
we

2
2 might want to
might want to know.
know. It's
It's better
better if
if it
it comes
comes from
from you
you than
than
3
3 from us.
from us.
4
4 THE COURT:
THE COURT: II think
think Mr.
Mr. Blanche's
Blanche's point
point isis well
well
5
5 taken. There's
taken. There's aa pretty
pretty significant
significant difference
difference between the
between the

6
6 two sets
two sets of
of books.
books. II can
can see
see why
why the
the defense
defense would
would want to
want to

7
7 ask those
ask those questions
questions and
and it
it would
would be
be relevant.
relevant. II understand
understand
8
8 your argument
your argument asas well,
well, but
but II don't
don't think
think it
it carries
carries asas much
much
s
9 weight.
weight. II think
think aa better
better way
way to
to handle
handle your
your question
question would
would
10
10 be simply to
be simply to say,
say, the
the defendant
defendant inin this
this case
case has
has written
written XX
1
11 number of
number of books.
books. Have
Have you
you read
read any
any one
one or
or more
more of
of those
those
12
12 books?
books?

13
13 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: We We can
can live
live with
with that.
that.
14
14 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Jumping
Jumping toto 42,
42, this
this is
is aa defense
defense
15
15 request: Have
request: Have you
you or
or has
has anyone
anyone close
close to
to you
you ever
ever
16
16 contributed to
contributed to any
any political
political campaign
campaign or
or any
any political
political
17
17 action committee.
action committee. The
The People
People oppose.
oppose.
18
18 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Hopefully
Hopefully it's
it's obvious
obvious why
why we
we think
think
19
19 it's an
it's an appropriate
appropriate question
question to to ask
ask the
the jurors.
jurors. IfIf the
the
20
20 answer is
answer is yes,
yes, that
that can
can still
still mean
mean aa lot
lot of
of things.
things. If If
2
21 they've given
they've given $10.00
$10.00 ten
ten years
years ago,
ago, five
five years
years ago,
ago, that
that
22
22 may
may be of very
be of very little
little significance.
significance. But But if
if somebody
somebody has
has
23
23 given large sums
given large sums of
of money
money toto aa PAC,
PAC, especially
especially inin aa case
case --
—-
2
24 We can't step
We can't step away
away from
from the
the fact
fact that
that President
President Trump
Trump
25
25 is running
is running for
for president
president right
right now
now and
and was
was the
the President.
President.
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 a2
42

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 So aa juror
So juror that
that has
has given significant amounts
given significant amounts of
of money, or
money, or

2
2 even significant
even significant to
to them,
them, amounts
amounts of
of money, in support
money, in support of
of
3
3 or against
or against President
President Trump
Trump is
is an
an extremely
extremely relevant
relevant fact
fact
4
4 for picking
for a jury.
picking a jury.
5
5 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Why do
Why do you
you oppose
oppose that?
that?
6
6 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: We think
We think it's
it's too
too broad.
broad. We
We

7
7 think that
think that we
we get
get at
at these
these questions
questions that
that are
are probing
probing bias
bias
8
8 in other
in other ways.
ways. As Mr. Blanche
As Mr. Blanche pointed
pointed out,
out, the
the fact
fact that
that
9
9 someone has
someone has contributed
contributed aa small
small amount
amount of
of political
political
10
10 campaign many
campaign years ago
many years ago does
does not
not provide
provide any
any information
information
1n
11 that would
that would be
be useful.
useful. SoSo II think
think that
that this
this question
question is is
12
12 just too
just too broad.
broad. We can get
We can at this
get at this information
information more
more

13
13 narrowly. II noticed
narrowly. noticed that
that we
we kind
kind of
of skipped
skipped 41.
41. Are
Are you
you
14
14 not interested
not interested inin our
our objection
objection toto 41?
41?
15
15 THE COURT:
THE COURT: No,
No, II just
just skipped
skipped it.
it. This
This isis
16
16 number 41,
number 41, the
the defense
defense request:
request: Have
Have you
you read
read or
or listened
listened
17
17 to audio
to audio of
of any
any other
other books
books or
or podcast
podcast concerning
concerning President
President
18
18 Donald Trump?
Donald Trump? CanCan you
you tell
tell me why you
me why you need
need that
that question?
question?
19
19 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Again, it goes
Again, it goes to
to trying
trying to
to
20
20 understand the
understand the juror,
juror, and
and what
what they
they know,
know, what
what outside
outside
21
21 potential bias they
potential bias they bring into this
bring into this courtroom.
courtroom. II think
think
22
22 there is
there is aa lot
lot of
of ways
ways we
we ask
ask this
this question,
question, but
but this
this isis
23
23 unique because
unique because some
some of
of the
the witnesses
witnesses we
we are
are going
going to
to call
call
24
24 who have active
who have active pods weekly, for
pods weekly, for example,
example, and
and constantly
constantly
25
25 discuss President Trump.
discuss President Trump.
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 a3
43

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 II forgot
forgot aa reason
reason regarding
regarding the
the PAC,
PAC, which
which II should
should
2
2 have led
have led with.
with. This is aa case,
This is case, we believe, although
we believe, although thethe
3
3 People haven't
People haven't really
really confirmed
confirmed it
it yet,
yet, involves
involves campaign
campaign
4
4 finance. The
finance. The fact
fact that
that aa potential
potential juror
juror has
has given
given
5
5 significant monies
significant to aa PAC
monies to PAC or
or something
something akin
akin to
to that,
that, can
can
6
6 show aa level
show level of
of sophistication
sophistication that
that would certainly would
would certainly would

7
7 be important for
be important for us
us to
to understand.
understand.
8
8 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Let Let me
me first
first deal
deal with
with 41.
41. The
The
s
9 problem
problem with 41, once
with 41, once again,
again, it's
it's just
just too
too broad.
broad. Have
Have you
you
10
10 read or
read or listened
listened toto audio
audio of
of any
any other
other books
books or
or podcasts
podcasts

1
11 concerning President
concerning President Donald
Donald Trump?
Trump? That's
That's every
every news
news
12
12 broadcast
broadcast inin the
the last
last eight
eight years.
years.
13
13 THE COURT:
THE COURT: That's
That's kind
kind of
of the
the argument
argument you
you made
made
14
14 before.
before.

15
15 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: ThisThis is
is why this case
why this case should
should have
have
16
16 been
been brought three years
brought three years ago,
ago, II agree.
agree. It It will
will be
be

17
17 complicated. But
complicated. But II do think there's
do think there's aa way
way the
the Court
Court can
can
18
18 fashion the
fashion the question.
question. II think
think there's
there's aa way
way you
you can
can ask
ask
19
19 the question
the question to
to get --
get --

20
20 THE COURT:
THE COURT: WhatWhat I'd
I'd like
like to
to do
do is
is have
have you
you guys
guys
2
21 go back and
go back and see
see if
if you
you can
can agree
agree toto some
some more of this.
more of this. It It
22
22 sounds like
sounds like you're
you're actually
actually in in agreement
agreement onon some
some of
of these.
these.
23
23 Some of
Some of them
them are
are too
too broad,
broad, some
some too
too narrow,
narrow, tit
tit for
for tat.
tat.
2
24 But if
But if you
you guys
guys can
can work on the
work on the disputed
disputed questions
questions and
and then
then
25
25 come back
come to me,
back to I'll rule
me, I'll rule on
on the
the once
once that
that remain
remain inin
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 a4
44

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 dispute, I'm happy
dispute, I'm happy to
to do
do that.
that.
2
2 II would
would need
need you
you to
to get
get back
back to
to me say by
me say the middle
by the middle
3
3 of next
of next week.
week. I'm
I'm sure
sure you
you would
would like
like to
to see
see the
the proposed
proposed
4
4 jury questionnaire
jury questionnaire as as much
much in
in advance
advance as
as possible.
possible.
5
5 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: We We can
can try
try that.
that. ToTo be very
be very

6
6 honest, there
honest, there was
was aa much wider chasm
much wider chasm before
before we started
we started

7
7 negotiating. We
negotiating. We have
have been
been negotiating
negotiating with
with counsel
counsel inin good
good
8
8 faith. II believe
faith. believe they
they have
have as
as well.
well. But
But it
it seems
seems like
like wewe

9
9 were kind of
were kind of at
at an
an impasse,
impasse, which is why
which is why we
we submitted
submitted itit to
to
10
10 you.
you.

n
11 THE COURT:
THE COURT: IfIf you
you don't
don't think
think it
it would
would bebe
12
12 productive, I'll just
productive, I'll just take
take it.
it. ItIt just
just seemed
seemed to
to me
me there
there
13
13 were
were aa couple
couple where
where there
there might
might be room for
be room for progress.
progress.
14
14 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: When
When would you like
would you like to
to know
know that
that
15
15 by?
by?

16
16 THE COURT:
THE COURT: I'd
I'd say
say Wednesday.
Wednesday.
17
17 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: We'll
We'll talk
talk offline
offline and
and see
see if
if
18
18 that's worthwhile.
that's worthwhile.
19
19 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: In In my
my experience,
experience, which
which is
is more
more
20
20 Federal than
Federal than State,
State, this
this is
is exactly
exactly why
why aa written
written
21
21 questionnaire would
questionnaire would ultimately
ultimately bebe more
more efficient.
efficient. II know
know
22
22 efficiency is
efficiency is important
important toto everybody.
everybody. We're
We're talking
talking about
about
23
23 how to
how to ask,
ask, your
your Honor
Honor will
will ask
ask questions
questions of
of aa panel.
panel. If If
24
24 we agree
we agree on
on written
written questionnaire, and if
questionnaire, and if we
we disagree,
disagree, your
your
25
25 Honor rules.
Honor rules. Everybody
Everybody knows
knows exactly
exactly the
the question
question and
and the
the
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 as
45

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 way it's asked,
way it's asked, and
and the
the right
right tone.
tone. II don't
don't appreciate
appreciate how
how
2
2 that is
that is more inefficient than
more inefficient than what
what we
we are
are talking
talking about
about the
the
3
3 process
process being now. Look,
being now. Look, II would
would again
again request
request that
that the
the
4
4 Court consider
Court consider that.
that.
5
5 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Would
Would you
you like
like to
to reply?
reply?
6
6 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: We've
We've litigated
litigated this.
this. You've
You've
7
7 already decided
already decided it.
it. II believe
believe that
that part you decided
part you decided is
is
8
8 because it's neither
because it's neither more efficient nor
more efficient nor more fair to
more fair to have
have
9
9 jurors fill
jurors fill out
out questionnaires.
questionnaires. You You can't
can't gauge
gauge their
their
10
10 facial reactions,
facial reactions, their
their body language, whether
body language, whether they
they take
take
1n
11 too long
too long to
to think
think about
about aa question.
question. We We firmly
firmly believe
believe Your
Your
12
12 Honor's decision
Honor's decision is
is based in the
based in the fairest
fairest most efficient
most efficient

13
13 way.
way.

14
14 THE COURT:
THE COURT: You
You made
made the
the application
application before.
before. II
15
15 considered it.
considered it. The
The People
People opposed
opposed it.
it. They
They provided
provided
16
16 reasons why,
reasons why, inin their
their experience,
experience, itit was
was not
not more
more

17
17 efficient, and
efficient, and II agree.
agree. II think
think that
that even
even though
though we
we might
might

18
18 receive aa written
receive written questionnaire
questionnaire with
with written
written answers,
answers, each
each
19
19 one of
one of those
those answers
answers is
is then
then going
going to
to require
require follow-up
follow-up
20
20 questions. So
questions. So it
it really
really doesn't
doesn't save
save any
any time,
time, in
in my
my
21
21 opinion. II think
opinion. think it
it just
just drags
drags things
things out
out further.
further.
22
22 The last
The last question.
question.
23
23 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: I'mI'm sorry,
sorry, Judge,
Judge, II didn't
didn't
24
24 finish 42.
finish 42.
25
25 THE COURT:
THE COURT: I'm
I'm sorry.
sorry.
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 a6
46

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: In response
In response to
to the
the campaign
campaign
2
2 point, which II think
point, which think there
there is
is another
another question
question about
about that
that
3
3 that's coming
that's coming up,
up, so
So it
it should
should subsume
subsume that
that point, the real
point, the real
4
4 objection to
objection to question
question 4242 about
about political
political contributions,
contributions, it it
5
5 becomes
becomes a a proxy
proxy for
for political affiliation. II don't
political affiliation. don't think
think
6
6 it's appropriate
it's appropriate to to ask
ask aa prospective
prospective juror,
juror, flat
flat out,
out, are
are
7
7 you aa Democrat
you Democrat oror Republican.
Republican.
8
8 If you
If you ask,
ask, have
have you
you contributed
contributed to
to any
any political
political
9
9 campaign or
campaign or political action committee,
political action committee, the
the next
next question
question
10
10 is, which
is, one? And
which one? that becomes
And that becomes aa proxy
proxy for
for political
political
n
11 affiliation, and
affiliation, and this
this case
case is
is not
not supposed
supposed to
to be
be about
about
12
12 politics, not withstanding
politics, not withstanding thethe defense's
defense's possession.
possession.

13
13 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Question
Question 43,
43, the
the last
last question
question we're
we're
14
14 going to go
going to go over,
over, this
this is
is aa defense
defense request:
request: Have
Have you
you ever
ever
15
15 had aa bumper
had bumper sticker
sticker onon your
your car,
car, or
or place
place aa sign
sign in
in your
your
16
16 yard in
yard in support
support ofof or
or against
against aa political candidate or
political candidate or aa
17
17 cause?
cause?

18
18 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: We can rephrase
We can rephrase how
how we
we ask
ask this
this
19
19 question. We
question. We just
just very
very much disagree with
much disagree with what
what
20
20 Mr. Steinglass just
Mr. Steinglass just said,
said, which
which is
is that
that this
this proxy
proxy idea,
idea, we we
21
21 can't ignore
can't ignore ---- I'm
I'm not
not suggesting
suggesting wewe are
are but
but we
we can't
can't
22
22 ignore the
ignore the elephant
elephant inin the
the room.
room. President
President Trump
Trump is
is
23
23 running for
running for President.
President. He He is
is affiliated
affiliated with
with aa political
political

24
24 party.
party. He He was
was the
the Republican
Republican President
President of
of the
the United
United
25
25 States for
States for 44 years.
years. He He is
is being
being tried
tried by
by aa Democrat
Democrat
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 a7
47

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1
1 District Attorney.
District Attorney.

2
2 So whether
So whether we like it
we like it or
or not,
not, aa juror's
juror's political
political
3
3 affiliation has
affiliation has to
to be
be something
something that
that we
we know
know and
and
4
4 understand.
understand. We're asking all
We're asking all these
these questions.
questions. There's
There's aa
5
5 12-page questionnaire.
12-page questionnaire. What we all
What we all really
really want
want to
to know,
know,
6
6 and what
and they want
what they want to
to know,
know, is
is do
do you
you like
like President
President Trump?
Trump?
7
7 So we
So we are
are coming
coming at
at all
all different ways to
different ways to try
try and
and find
find aa
8
8 jury that's
jury that's fair
fair and
and impartial,
impartial, listen
listen to
to the
the evidence
evidence inin
9
9 this courtroom.
this courtroom. TheThe real
real simple
simple question,
question, ifif it
it comes
comes to
to
10
10 it, have
it, have you
you donated
donated to
to aa political
political party? Yes. Which
party? Yes. Which
n
11 party?
party?

12
12 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Basically,
Basically, what
what you
you want
want to
to be
be able
able
13
13 to do
to do is
is ask
ask the
the prospective
prospective juror,
juror, what's your party
what's your party

14
14 affiliation, and
affiliation, and what
what are
are you
you registered
registered as?
as?
15
15 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: That
That doesn't
doesn't end
end it
it your
your Honor.
Honor. Of Of
16
16 course, there
course, there are
are aa lot
lot of
of Republics,
Republics, asas we
we know,
know, who
who maybe
maybe
17
17 wouldn't vote for
wouldn't vote for President
President Trump.
Trump.
18
18 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Let's
Let's say
say somebody
somebody says,
says, I'm
I'm aa
19
19 registered Republic,
registered Republic, would
would the
the People
People be
be permitted
permitted atat that
that
20
20 point to excuse
point to excuse that
that person
person for
for cause?
cause?
21
21 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: No, your Honor.
No, your Honor.
22
22 THE COURT:
THE COURT: You
You realize
realize that
that you're
you're each
each going
going toto
23
23 get 10 peremptory
get 10 peremptory challenges
challenges in
in this
this case.
case. It's
It's aa class
class
24
24 E-Felony. If
E-Felony. If you're
you're going
going to
to strike
strike everybody
everybody who
who is
is
25
25 either aa Republican
either Republican oror aa Democrat,
Democrat, you're
you're going
going toto run
run out
out
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
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1
1 of peremptory
of peremptory challenges
challenges very
very quickly.
quickly.
2
2 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: These are
These are not
not for
for cause
cause questions.
questions.

3
3 THE COURT:
THE COURT: That's why
That's why I'm
I'm asking.
asking.
4
4 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: II misunderstood.
misunderstood. Of course
Of course the
the
5
5 mere fact that
mere fact that someone
someone is
is aa Republican
Republican oror aa Democrat
Democrat does
does
6
6 not give
not give either
either party,
party, II would
would submit,
submit, the
the right
right to
to strike
strike
7
7 for cause.
for cause. It It does
does provide information and
provide information and allow
allow either
either
8
8 party to ask
party to ask aa follow-up,
follow-up, which
which all
all these
these questions
questions are
are
9
9 designed to
designed to do.
do. That
That is
is actually
actually the
the real
real question
question we are
we are

10
10 trying to
trying to get
get at.
at. II challenge
challenge the
the People
People to
to disagree
disagree with
with
n
11 that. That
that. That is
is what
what we want to
we want to know.
know. Who
Who is
is your
your political
political
12
12 affiliation as
affiliation as relates
relates to
to President
President Trump
Trump align
align with?
with?

13
13 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: I'mI'm glad
glad Mr. Blanche asked,
Mr. Blanche asked,
14
14 because that is
because that is emphatically not our
emphatically not our position.
position. We are not
We are not
15
15 interested in
interested in whether
whether someone
someone likes
likes or
or dislikes
dislikes President
President
16
16 Trump. What
Trump. we're interested
What we're interested inin is
is not
not withstanding
withstanding

17
17 someone's opinions
someone's opinions about
about Donald
Donald Trump,
Trump, whether
whether they
they can
can be
be

18
18 a fair
a fair and
and impartial
impartial juror,
juror, that's
that's fair
fair to
to both
both sides.
sides.
19
19 There is
There is no
no chance
chance that
that we're
we're going
going to
to find
find aa single
single
20
20 juror that
juror that doesn't
doesn't have
have aa view
view of
of President
President Trump,
Trump, former
former
21
21 President Trump.
President Trump. HeHe was
was the
the President.
President. People
People know
know who
who hehe
22
22 is. They're
is. They're going
going to
to have
have an
an opinion
opinion one
one way
way or
or the
the other.
other.
23
23 There can
There can like
like him
him or
or dislike
dislike him.
him. The
The can
can still
still be
be fair
fair
24
24 jurors so
jurors so long
long as
as that
that is
is not
not going
going to
to affect
affect their
their ability
ability
25
25 to fairly
to fairly judge
judge the
the evidence in this
evidence in this case.
case. That
That is
is what
what wewe
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
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1
1 want.
want.

2
2 THE COURT:
THE COURT: And so
And so II do
do disagree
disagree with
with you,
you,
3
3 Mr. Blanche. II think
Mr. Blanche. think it
it would
would be
be inappropriate
inappropriate to to simply
simply
4
4 want to ask
want to ask or
or want
want to
to know
know if
if someone
someone likes
likes oror dislikes
dislikes

5
5 your client.
your client. That's
That's not
not the
the issue.
issue. The
The issue
issue is
is whether
whether
6
6 these people
these people can
can be
be fair
fair and
and impartial
impartial and
and return
return aa verdict
verdict

7
7 consistent with
consistent with the
the facts
facts and
and the
the law.
law. It's
It's going
going to
to be
be my
my

8
8 job to
job to ensure
ensure that
that we
we do
do that
that and
and to
to ensure
ensure that
that your
your
9
9 client gets
client gets aa fair
fair trial.
trial. IfIf questions
questions such
such as,
as, do
do you
you
10
10 like him,
like him, do
do you
you not
not like
like him
him were
were to
to come
come out,
out, they
they will
will
n
11 very well be
very well be objectionable.
objectionable.
12
12 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: We never suggested
We never suggested such
such aa question
question
13
13 at all.
at all. II do
do think
think that
that the
the law
law is
is that
that if
if aa juror
juror has
has aa
14
14 strong opinion
strong opinion one
one way
way or
or the
the other
other --
-- it's
it's not
not about
about raise
raise
15
15 your hand
your hand if
if you
you like
like President
President Trump
Trump or
or raise
raise you
you hand
hand if
if
16
16 you don't
you don't but
but asking
asking aa question
question about
about the
the individual
individual who
who isis
17
17 literally leading
literally leading the
the Republican
Republican party,
party, going
going toto be
be the
the
18
18 candidate for
candidate for President
President ofof the
the United
United States,
States, and
and was
was the
the
19
19 Republican President
Republican President ofof the
the United
United States,
States, asking
asking the
the jury
jury
20
20 their views,
their views, and
and their
their political
political affiliation,
affiliation, if if they've
they've
21
21 given money to
given money to campaigns,
campaigns, given
given money to PACs,
money to PACs, is
is not
not per
per
22
22 se if
se if the
the answer
answer is
is yes
yes or
or no
no they're
they're out
out of
of here,
here, but
but it's
it's
23
23 a very
a very keen
keen and
and instructive
instructive way to understand
way to understand whether
whether aa
24
24 juror can
juror can be
be fair
fair and
and impartial.
impartial. That's
That's why
why we
we think
think it's
it's
25
25 unusual, but
unusual, but completely
completely appropriate.
appropriate.
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 50
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PROCEEDINGS
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1
1 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Okay, so
Okay, so II think
think we've
we've devoted
devoted aa
2
2 significant amount
significant amount of
of time
time to
to the
the questionnaire.
questionnaire. It's an
It's an
3
3 important issue,
important issue, for
for sure.
sure. II want
want to
to make
make sure
sure II get
get it
it
4
4 right.
right. So II appreciate
So appreciate the
the comments.
comments. That's all
That's all II have
have on
on
5
5 ny agenda. Counsel,
my agenda. Counsel, is
is there
there anything
anything else
else you
you would like
would like

6
6 to bring
to bring up
up at
at this
this time,
time, that
that we
we haven't
haven't already
already
7
7 addressed?
addressed?

8
8 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: MayMay II have
have one
one moment.
moment.
s
9 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Sure.
Sure.
10
10 (Attorney conferring
(Attorney conferring with
with client.)
client.)
1
11 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Judge,
Judge, nothing.
nothing. But
But as
as President
President
12
12 Trump just
Trump just reminded
reminded me,
me, II do
do think
think it's
it's appropriate
appropriate toto
13
13 end --
end —-
14
14 THE COURT:
THE COURT: II just
just want
want to
to apologize.
apologize. There
There
15
15 actually were
actually were aa few
few other
other issues
issues the
the People
People wanted
wanted toto
16
16 raise. II know
raise. know the
the People
People were
were interested
interested in
in discussing
discussing
17
17 courtroom logistics.
courtroom logistics.
18
18 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Okay,
Okay, we'll
we'll start
start with
with that.
that.
19
19 First, basic
First, basic question,
question, isis this
this the
the courtroom
courtroom we're
we're going
going to
to
20
20 be trying this
be trying this case
case in?
in?
2
21 THE COURT:
THE COURT: ItIt is.
is.
22
22 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: I'mI'm not
not trying
trying to
to sound
sound silly
silly
23
23 here, but
here, but do
do you
you think
think there
there is
is something
something we
we can
can do
do about
about
2
24 this asymmetrical
this asymmetrical real
real estate.
estate. We have one
We have one tiny
tiny table,
table, wewe
25
25 have 55 attorneys.
have attorneys. They
They aa giant
giant tables.
tables. I'm
I'm sure
sure there
there isis
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 s1
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1
1 some way
some way we
we can
can more equitably --
more equitably --
2
2 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Do you
Do you need
need more
more room?
room?
3
3 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: We do.
We do. We have
We have five
five attorneys
attorneys
4
4 that are
that are going
going to
to be
be involved
involved in
in questioning
questioning the
the witnesses.
witnesses.
5
5 THE COURT:
THE COURT: What we
What we can
can do
do is
is what we did
what we in the
did in the
6
6 Trump Organization
Trump Organization trial.
trial. We can
We can add
add aa smaller
smaller table
table at
at
7
7 the end,
the end, that
that would
would give you aa little
give you little more
more room.
room. That fact
That fact
8
8 is that Mr.
is that Trump has
Mr. Trump more people
has more that he
people that has.
he has. It's easier
It's easier
9
9 for us
for us to
to give
give him
him aa larger
larger table.
table. These tables
These tables are
are bolted
bolted
10
10 down.
down. So it's
So it's very
very difficult.
difficult.

n
11 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: I was
I was wondering,
wondering, and
and perhaps if
perhaps if

12
12 some of
some of these
these things
things are
are better
better addressed
addressed offline,
offline, that's
that's
13
13 fine, but
fine, but II was
was wondering about whether
wondering about whether we'd have an
we'd have an
14
14 opportunity to
opportunity to have
have access
access to
to the
the courtroom
courtroom to
to examine
examine the
the
15
15 technology, practice
technology, using some
practice using some of
of the
the technology,
technology, seeing
seeing
16
16 what the technological
what the technological capabilities
capabilities are.
are. II know
know it's
it's
17
17 changed aa lot
changed lot since
since the
the last
last time
time we
we were
were all
all here.
here.
18
18 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Yes,
Yes, both
both sides
sides will
will certainly
certainly have
have
19
19 access to
access to the
the courtroom.
courtroom. You
You want
want to
to do
do this
this when
when we
we don't
don't
20
20 have to
have to deal
deal with
with security
security issues.
issues. It's
It's just
just aa lot
lot easier.
easier.
21
21 But if
But if you
you contact
contact the
the clerk
clerk of
of the
the Court,
Court, or
or the
the Sergeant
Sergeant
22
22 in the
in the part,
part, I'm
I'm sure
sure we
we can
can accommodate
accommodate you.
you. They
They can
can
23
23 even give
even give you
you some
some instructions
instructions on
on how
how this
this stuff
Stuff works.
works.
24
24 It's still
It's still relatively
relatively knew.
knew.
25
25 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Thank
Thank you.
you. Will
Will we
we potentially
potentially
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
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1
1 have an
have an opportunity
opportunity to
to have
have aa space
space in
in the
the courtroom,
courtroom, or
or in
in
2
2 the back
the where we
back where we can
can leave
leave binders, boxes, other
binders, boxes, other items
items so
so
3
3 that we're
that we're not
not carrying
carrying stuff
stuff every
every day
day back and forth?
back and forth? Or
Or

4
4 leave stuff
leave stuff in
in the
the courtroom
courtroom if
if it
it will
will be secure.
be secure.

5
5 THE COURT:
THE COURT: From my
From my perspective,
perspective, that's
that's not
not aa
6
6 problem. Ultimately we
problem. Ultimately we do have to
do have to discuss
discuss that
that with the
with the

7
7 secret service
secret service and
and the
the court
court officers
officers and
and make
make sure
sure all
all
8
8 security concerns
security concerns are
are met.
met.
s
9 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Fair
Fair enough.
enough. Also,
Also, II had
had some
some
10
10 logistical issues
logistical issues about
about jury
jury selection,
selection, if
if this
this is
is an
an
1
11 appropriate time.
appropriate time. IfIf II remember
remember correctly,
correctly, dodo you
you seat
seat 1818
12
12 jurors in
jurors in the
the box?
box?
13
13 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Yes.
Yes.
14
14 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: OneOne through
through 9,
9, and
and 10
10 through
through
15
15 18.
18.

16
16 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Yes?
Yes?
17
17 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Is Is there
there aa time
time by
by which
which you'd
you'd
18
18 like the
like the parties
parties to
to submit
submit aa list
list of
of witnesses
witnesses oror other
other
19
19 names that
names that may
may come
come up
up during
during the
the trial
trial for
for you
you to
to use
use inin
20
20 the screening
the screening process?
process?
2
21 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Yes,
Yes, if
if you
you can
can get
get that
that to
to me
me aa week
week
22
22 before the trial.
before the trial. II would
would also
also ask,
ask, I'm
I'm not
not confident
confident
23
23 about this,
about this, but
but II would
would ask
ask if
if the
the two
two sides
sides could
could get
get
2
24 together and
together and agree
agree on
on aa one-paragraph
one-paragraph narrative
narrative ofof the
the case
case
25
25 that II could
that could read
read to
to the
the prospective
prospective jurors.
jurors.
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 53
53

PROCEEDINGS
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1
1 I'm asking
I'm asking the
the two
two of
of you
you to
to work
work on
on it
it together
together so
so it
it
2
2 could be
could be fair
fair and
and balanced.
balanced. If the
If the two
two of
of you
you can't
can't agree
agree
3
3 on what
on what should
should be
be read
read to
to the
the prospective
prospective jurors,
jurors, I'll
I'll do
do
4
4 it myself.
it myself. II would
would also
also ask
ask that
that be
be given
given to
to me
me aa week
week
5
5 before the trial.
before the trial.
6
6 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Very
Very good.
good. AsAs for
for the
the trial
trial
7
7 schedule, in
schedule, in order
order to
to shorten
shorten the
the trial,
trial, the
the People
People have
have
8
8 sought stipulations
sought stipulations asas to
to the
the authenticity
authenticity of of certain
certain
9
9 business records, bank
business records, bank records,
records, books and newspaper
books and newspaper
10
10 articles. The
articles. The defense
defense has
has suggested
suggested that
that there
there way
way be
be aa
1n
11 few stipulations
few stipulations that
that they
they may
may at
at some
some point
point be
be willing
willing to to
12
12 enter into,
enter into, phone records, court
phone records, court reporters,
reporters, but for the
but for the
13
13 most part they
most part they will
will not
not be stipulating. Even
be stipulating. Even to
to things
things
14
14 like the
like the defendant's
defendant's own
own rallies
rallies and
and social
social media posts.
media posts.

15
15 This is
This is relevant
relevant because
because in
in the
the letter
letter that
that we
we sent
sent onon
16
16 January 2nd,
January 2nd, estimating
estimating the
the length
length of
of the
the trial,
trial, we
we
17
17 estimated it
estimated it would
would be
be approximately
approximately 15 15 to
to 17
17 court
court days
days for
for
18
18 the People's
the People's case.
case. Of course we
Of course we can't
can't anticipate
anticipate how
how long
long
19
19 the cross
the cross examination
examination will
will last.
last. WeWe informed
informed the
the Court
Court in in
20
20 that letter
that letter that
that the
the case
case may
may require
require anan extra
extra 22 or
or 33 days
days
21
21 if the
if the parties
parties don't
don't reach
reach such
such stipulations,
stipulations, and
and the
the
22
22 People are
People are forced
forced to
to call
call custodial
custodial witnesses. There are
witnesses. There are
23
23 18 such
18 such custodial
custodial witnesses.
witnesses.
24
24 So given
So given the
the nature
nature ofof the
the discussion
discussion soso far,
far, II think
think
25
25 it's safe
it's safe to
to assume
assume that
that we're
we're going
going to
to we will be
we will on the
be on the
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 54
54

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 longer end
longer end of
of that
that rather
rather than
than the
the shorter
shorter end.
end.
2
2 THE COURT:
THE COURT: II would encourage both
would encourage sides, if
both sides, if at
at
3
3 all possible,
all to agree
possible, to agree to
to stipulations.
stipulations. Of course,
Of course, aa
4
4 stipulation is
stipulation is just
just that.
that. You have
You have to
to agree
agree to
to it.
it. One
One

5
5 side does
side does not
not want
want to
to agree
agree to
to it,
it, they
they have
have no
no obligation
obligation
6
6 to.
to.

7
7 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Is this
Is this an
an appropriate
appropriate time
time to
to
8
8 take up
take up the
the matter of the
matter of the exhibit
exhibit list?
list?
9
9 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Sure.
Sure.

10
10 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Are you
Are you still
still planning
planning on
on having
having
n
11 a Wednesday
a Wednesday calendar
calendar day?
day?
12
12 THE COURT:
THE COURT: We'll be
We'll off on
be off on Wednesdays.
Wednesdays. It's my
It's my

13
13 calendar day,
calendar day, II figure
figure you
you guys
guys can
can probably
probably use
use the
the day
day as
as
14
14 well to work
well to on the
work on the case
case and
and get
get some
some rest,
rest, if
if that's
that's
15
15 possible.
possible. I I can
can also
also tell
tell you
you one
one date
date we are not
we are not going
going toto
16
16 meet, that will
meet, that will be Monday, April
be Monday, April 29th.
29th.
17
17 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: I'mI'm sorry,
sorry, Judge.
Judge.
18
18 THE COURT:
THE COURT: WeWe will
will not
not meet
meet on
on Wednesdays
Wednesdays during
during
19
19 the course
the course of
of trial.
trial. WeWe will
will also
also not
not meet
meet on
on Monday,
Monday,
20
20 April 29th.
April 29th.

21
21 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: With respect to
With respect to the
the holidays
holidays inin
22
22 April, the Jewish
April, the Jewish holidays
holidays and
and New
New York
York City
City public
public school
school
23
23 holidays the
holidays the week
week of
of April
April 22nd,
22nd, then
then spilling
spilling over
over to
to the
the
24
24 following week,
following week, Monday and Tuesday,
Monday and Tuesday, what
what is
is the
the Court's
Court's

25
25 intention with
intention with respect
respect to
to that
that schedule?
schedule?
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 55
55

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 THE COURT:
THE COURT: What are
What are you
you asking?
asking?
2
2 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Certainly members of
Certainly members of President
President
3
3 Trump's team
Trump's team would
would need
need those
those days
days off.
off. I'm
I'm speculating
speculating
4
4 presumably the jurors
presumably the jurors as
as well.
well.
5
5 THE COURT:
THE COURT: SoSo you
you know
know that
that when
when II asked
asked both
both

6
6 sides to
sides to put
put your
your heads
heads together
together and
and come
come up
up with
with aa trial
trial
7
7 date, and
date, and you
you both
both came
came back to me
back to with March
me with 11th, one
March 11th, one of
of
8
8 the factors
the factors that
that we
we were considering were
were considering were holidays.
holidays. So So we
we

s
9 were aware of
were aware of the
the holidays.
holidays. If If there
there is
is no
no objection
objection from
from
10
10 the People,
the People, we can work
we can work around
around it
it somewhat,
somewhat, but
but we can't
we can't

1n
11 take two
take two weeks
weeks off,
off, or
or even
even one
one week off.
week off.

12
12 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: I'm
I'm simply
simply inquiring
inquiring what
what the
the Court
Court
13
13 intends to
intends to do,
do,
14
14 THE COURT:
THE COURT: I'll
I'll do
do my
my best
best to
to certainly
certainly ----
15
15 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: My colleague is
My colleague is correct,
correct, we
we came
came up
up
16
16 with this date,
with this date, the
the estimated
estimated length
length of
of the
the trial,
trial, that
that the
the
17
17 trial would
trial would have
have been
been over
over by
by then,
then, and
and so
so now
now the
the trial
trial is
is
18
18 going.
going.

19
19 THE COURT:
THE COURT: The
The trial
trial would have been
would have been over
over inin
20
20 less than
less than four
four weeks?
weeks?
2
21 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: We can go
We can go back
back to
to the
the original
original
22
22 submission, the
submission, the day of the
day of the arraignment,
arraignment, but
but yes.
yes.
23
23 THE COURT:
THE COURT: II don't know that
don't know that that
that was
was realistic.
realistic.
2
24 I'11 work
I'll work with
with you.
you. II certainly
certainly want
want you
you to
to be
be able
able toto
25
25 observe the
observe the holidays.
holidays. II don't
don't want
want to
to interfere
interfere with
with that.
that.
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 56
56

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 At the same
At the same time,
time, once
once we
we start
start the
the trial,
trial, II have
have to
to be
be
2
2 mindful of the
mindful of the needs
needs of
of the
the jurors,
jurors, the
the witnesses, and
witnesses, and

3
3 everybody else.
everybody else. IfIf II have
have aa number
number of
of jurors
jurors who
who request
request
4
4 time off,
time off, that
that would
would be
be aa different
different story.
story.
5
5 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: II wasn't
wasn't trying
trying to
to impose
impose aa wrench
wrench

6
6 on that.
on that. II do
do think
think it's
it's meaningful
meaningful because
because aa potential
potential
7
7 juror who
juror who would
would otherwise
otherwise bebe allowed
allowed to
to be
be available
available to
to
8
8 sit, but
sit, for either
but for either of
of those
those two
two issues,
issues, the
the Jewish
Jewish
9
9 holidays or
holidays or New York City
New York City Spring
Spring break
break for
for children,
children, is
is
10
10 something that
something that II wanted
wanted toto understand
understand beforehand,
beforehand, because
because
n
11 if we
if we are
are sitting,
sitting, except
except for
for maybe
maybe the
the two
two days
days of
of the
the
12
12 Jewish holidays,
Jewish holidays, that
that could
could influence
influence aa juror
juror as
as well.
well. II
13
13 wasn't trying to
wasn't trying to --
--
14
14 THE COURT:
THE COURT: No,
No, that's
that's fine.
fine.
15
15 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Just
Just in
in terms
terms of
of scheduling
scheduling and
and
16
16 trying to
trying to understand
understand exactly
exactly the
the pace
pace we're
we're going
going to
to be
be
17
17 going at,
going at, can
can you
you give
give us
us aa rough
rough sense
sense about
about the
the length
length ofof
18
18 the Court
the Court day?
day?
19
19 THE COURT:
THE COURT: MyMy preference
preference is
is to
to start
start at
at 9:30,
9:30, gogo
20
20 at least
at least until
until 4:30,
4:30, if
if not
not later.
later. Again, in all
Again, in all of
of these
these
21
21 matters,
matters, II have
have to
to consult
consult with
with the
the Major and see
Major and see what
what the
the
22
22 secret service
secret service has
has to
to say.
say. Security
Security issues
issues come
come first.
first.
23
23 That would
That would be
be my
my preference.
preference.
24
24 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Thank
Thank you,
you, Judge.
Judge. II think
think that
that
25
25 is it
is it for
for logistical
logistical questioning
questioning II wanted
wanted to
to raise.
raise. II dodo
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 57
57

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 have the
have the other
other issue
issue about
about the
the exhibit
exhibit list.
list.
2
2 THE COURT:
THE COURT: We're here,
We're here, might
might as
as well
well address
address it.
it.
3
3 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: I just
I just have
have aa package
package to
to hand
hand up
up
4
4 and over.
and over. As your
As your Honor
Honor may remember, there
may remember, there were
were
5
5 significant litigation
significant litigation leading
leading up
up to
to the
the Trump
Trump Corporation
Corporation
6
6 trial about
trial about the
the meaning of CPL
meaning of CPL Section
Section 245.20
245.20 (1)(o).
(1) (0).
7
7 Specifically, whether
Specifically, whether that
that subjection
subjection imposes
imposes aa requirement
requirement
8
8 on the
on the People
People to
to provide
provide aa list
list of
of exhibits
exhibits that
that they
they
s
9 intend to
intend to introduce
introduce at
at trial.
trial. I haven't
I haven't had
had time
time to
to go
go
10
10 through the
through the entire
entire decision,
decision, but
but II do
do notice
notice that
that one
one of
of
1
11 the orders
the orders in
in that
that decision
decision has
has to
to do
do with
with that.
that.
12
12 On
On August 12th of
August 12th of 2022,
2022, during
during the
the Court
Court appearance,
appearance,
13
13 this Court
this Court held
held that
that the
the section
section requires
requires the
the People
People to
to
14
14 identify the
identify the exhibits,
exhibits, and
and the
the documents
documents that
that they
they intend
intend
15
15 to introduce
to introduce inin their
their case
case is
is chief,
chief, which
which is
is consistent
consistent
16
16 with your omnibus
with your omnibus decision
decision today.
today. I'mI'm referring
referring to
to the
the
17
17 transcript of
transcript of August
August 12,
12, 2022.
2022.
18
18 The Court
The Court further
further held,
held, correctly,
correctly, that
that there
there was
was aa
19
19 continuing duty
continuing duty to
to disclose
disclose such
such exhibits
exhibits as
as the
the People
People
20
20 form and
form and intention
intention to
to introduce
introduce certain
certain items.
items. The
The People
People
2
21 have already,
have already, inin good
good faith,
faith, endeavoured
endeavoured toto follow
follow this
this
22
22 ruling in
ruling in the
the instant
instant case.
case. WeWe have
have identified
identified exhibits
exhibits onon
23
23 several different
several different occasions,
occasions, and
and have,
have, to
to date,
date, provided
provided

2
24 notice of
notice of approximately
approximately 336336 exhibits,
exhibits, which
which we
we are
are likely
likely
25
25 to introduce
to introduce atat trial,
trial, and
and have
have identified
identified each
each of
of them
them toto
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 s8
58

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 counsel for
counsel for the
the defendant.
defendant.

2
2 In contrast,
In contrast, we
we have
have not
not received
received designation
designation of
of aa
3
3 single exhibit
single exhibit that
that the
the defense intends to
defense intends to introduce
introduce at
at
4
4 trial, despite
trial, despite multiple
multiple requests.
requests. We've raised
We've raised this
this issue
issue
5
5 with the defense,
with the defense, as
as II said,
said, several
several times,
times, including
including inin aa
6
6 letter sent
letter sent on
on December
December 5,
5, 2023.
2023. That's
That's in
in the
the packet
packet ofof
7
7 materials that II just
materials that just handed
handed up
up along
along with
with the
the transcript
transcript
8
8 from August
from 12th of
August 12th of 2022.
2022.
9
9 Our last inquiry
Our last inquiry was
was made
made in
in email
email by Mr. Colangelo
by Mr. Colangelo on on
10
10 January 30th,
January 30th, as
as to
to whether the defense
whether the defense has
has yet
yet identified
identified
n
11 any exhibits
any exhibits they
they intend
intend toto use
use in
in their
their case
case in
in chief.
chief.
12
12 The response
The response from
from Mr.
Mr. Stern
Stern on
on the
the same
same date
date was,
was, we
we have
have
13
13 not, although
not, although wewe stress
stress that
that we
we also
also do
do not
not believe that
believe that

14
14 the defense
the defense has
has any
any designation obligation under
designation obligation under 245.20
245.20 (1)(1)
15
15 (0). That
(o). That email
email dated
dated January
January 30,
30, 2024
2024 is
is in
in the
the packet
packet of of
16
16 materials
materials II have
have just
just handed
handed up.
up.
17
17 This response
This response byby Mr.
Mr. Stern
Stern is
is surprising.
surprising. First,
First, itit
18
18 is difficult
is difficult toto believe that less
believe that less than
than 66 weeks
weeks before
before
19
19 trial, the
trial, the defense
defense has
has yet
yet to
to identify
identify aa single
single exhibit
exhibit

20
20 they intend
they intend to
to introduce
introduce atat trial.
trial. Reasonable
Reasonable diligence
diligence
21
21 requires more,
requires particularly where
more, particularly they have
where they have announced
announced anan
22
22 intention to
intention to call
call at
at least
least 22 witnesses
witnesses that's
that's Alan
Alan Garden
Garden
23
23 (oh) and
(ph) and Brad
Brad Smith,
Smith, who
who is
is an
an expert
expert witness.
witness. TheThe
24
24 announced that
announced that intention
intention onon December
December 7th
7th of
of 2024.
2024. That
That
25
25 email was
email was also
also in
in the
the packet
packet II just
just submitted.
submitted.
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 59
59

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 Second and
Second and more importantly, the
more importantly, the suggestion
suggestion that
that the
the
2
2 defense does not
defense does not have
have aa reciprocal
reciprocal discovery
discovery obligation
obligation in in
3
3 this context,
this context, flies
flies in
in the
the face
face of
of both
both the
the plain language
plain language

4
4 of the
of the statute
statute and
and this
this Court's rulings in
Court's rulings in the
the Trump
Trump
5
5 Corporation case. In
Corporation case. In that
that case
case both
both Mr. Necheles and
Mr. Necheles and Mr.
Mr.
6
6 Stern represented
Stern represented thethe Trump
Trump Corporation and are
Corporation and are intimately
intimately
7
7 familiar with
familiar with this
this Court's
Court's interpretation
interpretation ofof the
the reciprocal
reciprocal
8
8 discovery obligations
discovery obligations imposed
imposed by
by 245.20
245.20 of
of the
the CPL.
CPL.
9
9 The language
The language ofof that
that statute
statute could
could not
not be clearer.
be clearer.

10
10 CPL 245.20 (4)
CPL 245.20 (4) governs
governs reciprocal
reciprocal discovery,
discovery, and
and identifies
identifies
n
11 certain subsections
certain subsections ofof 245.20
245.20 (1)
(1) that
that apply
apply to
to the
the defense
defense

12
12 as well
as well as
as the
the prosecution.
prosecution. That
That list
list includes
includes (o),
(0), which,
which,
13
13 as this
as this Court
Court has
has held,
held, requires
requires the
the designation
designation of of
14
14 exhibits that
exhibits that will
will be
be introduced
introduced into
into evidence.
evidence. Whatever
Whatever 00

15
15 means for the
means for the prosecution,
prosecution, itit means
means the
the same
same for
for the
the
16
16 defense, subject
defense, subject ofof course
course to
to Constitutional
Constitutional limitations,
limitations,
17
17 which don't apply
which don't apply to
to witnesses
witnesses other
other than
than the
the defendant.
defendant.
18
18 Initially, in
Initially, in the
the Trump
Trump Corporation
Corporation case,
case, the
the defense
defense
19
19 explicitly acknowledged
explicitly acknowledged as as much.
much. You
You see
see in
in the
the materials
materials

20
20 is aa transcript
is transcript from
from July
July 11,
11, 2022,
2022, in
in which
which Ms. Necheles
Ms. Necheles

21
21 agrees that
agrees that Sub
Sub OO applies
applies to
to the
the defense,
defense, informed
informed thethe
22
22 Court that there
Court that there were
were few
few documents
documents that
that they
they intended
intended to to
23
23 introduce and
introduce and promised
promised toto do
do so
so in
in short
short order.
order.
24
24 Subsequently, in
Subsequently, in that
that case,
case, they
they took
took the
the position
position
25
25 that despite
that despite the
the plain
plain language
language of
of the
the statute
statute that
that the
the
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 60
60

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 parties respected obligations
parties respected obligations under
under Subj
Subj OO were
were asymmetric.
asymmetric.
2
2 In an
In an email
email dated October 4,
dated October 4, 2022,
2022, in
in response
response toto aa series
series
3
3 of arguments
of arguments among
among the
the parties
parties as
as to
to the
the scope
scope of
of the
the
4
4 defendant's reciprocal
defendant's reciprocal discovery
discovery obligation
obligation under
under Sub
Sub O,
O,
5
5 this Court
this Court directed
directed the
the defense to comply
defense to comply with
with the
the dictates
dictates
6
6 of the
of the Sub
Sub O,
O, along
along with the other
with the other Subsections
Subsections designated
designated
7
7 in 245.20
in 245.20 (4),
(4), or
or face
face the
the possibility
possibility of
of commensurate
commensurate
8
8 sanctions at
sanctions at trial.
trial.
s
9 Your ruling
Your ruling is
is in
in the
the materials
materials that
that was,
was, the
the date
date onon
10
10 that was
that was October
October 4th
4th of
of 2022.
2022. II believe
believe itit was an email
was an email
1
11 that made
that that ruling.
made that ruling. Yet,
Yet, somehow
somehow the
the defense
defense continues
continues
12
12 to deny
to deny that
that they
they have
have an
an obligation
obligation to
to identify
identify their
their
13
13 trial exhibits.
trial exhibits.
14
14 So we
So ask, first,
we ask, first, that
that this
this Court
Court eliminate
eliminate any
any
15
15 residual confusion
residual confusion about
about the
the defendant's
defendant's reciprocal
reciprocal
16
16 discovery obligations.
discovery obligations. Second,
Second, we ask this
we ask this Court
Court toto
17
17 reiterate to
reiterate to counsel
counsel that
that failure
failure to
to abide
abide by
by their
their
18
18 discovery obligations may
discovery obligations may result
result in
in sanctions
sanctions under
under CPLCPL

19
19 245.80, including
245.80, including preclusion
preclusion ofof defense
defense exhibits
exhibits that
that were
were
20
20 not designated
not designated inin the
the exercise
exercise of
of reasonable
reasonable diligence.
diligence.
2
21 Thank you.
Thank you.
22
22 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Judge,
Judge, there
there is
is repeated,
repeated, repeated
repeated
23
23 references to
references to aa different criminal trial
different criminal trial that
that has
has nono
2
24 bearing and nothing
bearing and nothing toto do
do with
with this
this case.
case. II appreciate
appreciate
25
25 that the
that the Trump
Trump Organization
Organization went on trial.
went on trial. II appreciate
appreciate
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 61
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PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 that.
that. President Trump
President Trump had
had nothing
nothing to
to do
do with
with that
that case,
case,
2
2 and the
and the People,
People, in
in multiple
multiple communications
communications with
with us
us in
in
3
3 email, and
email, and on
on the
the phone,
phone, assumed
assumed that
that this
this is
is some
some sort
sort of
of
4
4 law of
law of the
the case
case idea.
idea. That because
That Trump Organization
because Trump Organization was
was
5
5 prosecuted
prosecuted byby these
these prosecutors, that somehow
prosecutors, that somehow --
--
6
6 THE COURT:
THE COURT: II think
think what
what they're
they're making
making isis more
more

7
7 that II made
that made aa ruling.
ruling. ItIt was
was my
my ruling.
ruling. II made
made aa finding.
finding.
8
8 So unless
So unless I'm
I'm reversing
reversing myself in this
myself in this case,
case, chances
chances are
are my
my

9
9 ruling will
ruling will be the same.
be the same.
10
10 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Thank
Thank you
you your
your Honor.
Honor. Ms.
Ms. Necheles
Necheles
n
11 will address the
will address the Court.
Court.
12
12 MS. NECHELES:
MS. NECHELES: II dodo not
not believe
believe that
that
13
13 Mr. Steinglass is
Mr. Steinglass is correct
correct about
about what the prior
what the prior rulings
rulings were
were
14
14 in this
in this case.
case. II think
think that
that if
if you
you look
look at
at the
the email,
email, which
which
15
15 is attached
is attached inin the
the packet
packet that
that they
they gave,
gave, on
on Your
Your Honor's
Honor's
16
16 ruling, what
ruling, your Honor
what your Honor was ordering last
was ordering last time,
time,
17
17 specifically had
specifically had to
to do with the
do with the expert
expert witness.
witness. It It was
was

18
18 limited, and
limited, and did
did not
not reach
reach the
the issue
issue of
of whether
whether Sub
Sub OO went
went
19
19 to the
to the defense.
defense. You
You said
said that
that you
you we
we were
were required
required toto
20
20 produce certain things.
produce certain things.
21
21 If you
If you look
look at,
at, and
and we
we made this motion
made this motion among
among the
the
22
22 motions that we
motions that we made before your
made before your Honor,
Honor, and
and your
your Honor
Honor has
has
23
23 not ruled
not ruled on
on this.
this. This
This is
is something
something that
that is
is pending
pending
24
24 before your Honor.
before your Honor. IfIf you
you look
look at
at the
the sections,
sections, the
the
25
25 discovery rules are
discovery rules are different from the
different from the defense
defense and
and the
the
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 62
62

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 prosecution.
prosecution. If If you
you just
just compare
compare what
what the
the 22 standards
standards are.
are.
2
2 They are
They are different
different for
for the
the 22 parties.
parties.
3
3 Subject OO specifically
Subject specifically refers
refers to
to the
the prosecutors,
prosecutors, andand
4
4 the reciprocal
the reciprocal discovery
discovery isis different,
different, it
it has
has different
different
5
5 language. Notwithstanding
language. Notwithstanding that,
that, we
we understand
understand our
our
6
6 obligation. The
obligation. The defense,
defense, asas we
we argued
argued in
in the
the last
last case,
case,
7
7 and your
and your Honor
Honor agreed
agreed with
with us
us in
in the
the last
last case,
case, it's
it's right
right
8
8 in this
in this packet that the
packet that the prosecutor just handed
prosecutor just handed up.
up. II was
was
9
9 just quickly
just quickly glancing
glancing through
through it.
it. ItIt would
would have
have been
been nice
nice
10
10 if it
if it had
had been
been given
given to
to us
us before
before Court,
Court, they
they chose
chose not
not to.
to.
1n
11 So II had
So had to
to go
go quickly
quickly through
through this.
this. You
You can
can see
see in
in here
here
12
12 we said last
we said last time,
time, and
and say
say it
it again,
again, it's
it's the
the truth,
truth, our
our
13
13 obligation is
obligation is aa responsive
responsive one.
one.
14
14 We see what
We see happens. They
what happens. They have
have not
not given
given us
us notes
notes of
of
15
15 recent interviews
recent interviews of
of witness.
witness. They
They haven't
haven't given
given usus the
the
16
16 outline.
outline.

17
17 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Let's
Let's stick
stick to
to the
the issue,
issue, whether
whether

18
18 they have
they have or
or haven't,
haven't, would
would not
not justify
justify you
you withholding
withholding
19
19 discovery.
discovery. Are you saying
Are you saying that
that you
you will or will
will or will not
not
20
20 identify trial
identify trial exhibits
exhibits when you determine
when you determine what
what they're?
they're?
21
21 MS. NECHELES:
MS. NECHELES: When we form
When we form an
an intent
intent of
of what
what we
we

22
22 are putting
are in in
putting in in our
our case,
case, we will identify
we will identify them.
them. We have
We have

23
23 no obligations,
no obligations, asas your
your Honor
Honor agreed,
agreed, to
to identify
identify cross
cross
24
24 examination documents.
examination documents. So So those
those will
will be
be aa lot
lot of
of the
the trial
trial
25
25 exhibits. We
exhibits. We will
will not
not be
be identifying
identifying those
those in
in advance
advance toto
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 63
63

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 the prosecution.
the prosecution. Things that
Things that we'll
we'll be putting in
be putting in in
in our
our
2
2 case in
case in chief,
chief, II assume
assume we will know
we will know aa week
week or
or 22 before
before our
our
3
3 case, and
case, and will
will at
at that
that point
point be
be able
able to
to identify
identify them
them for
for
4
4 then.
them.

5
5 II don't
don't know
know right
right now.
now. II don't
don't know
know what
what their
their case
case
6
6 is going
is going to
to look
look like,
like, so
so II couldn't
couldn't possibly
possibly tell
tell them.
them.
7
7 THE COURT:
THE COURT: Anything else?
Anything else?
8
8 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Yes, by
Yes, that rationale,
by that rationale, they're
they're
9
9 not going
not going to
to know
know what
what our
our case
case is
is going
going to
to look
look like
like until
until
10
10 we rest. Therefore,
we rest. Therefore, their
their discovery
discovery obligations
obligations wouldn't
wouldn't
n
11 be triggered until
be triggered until then.
then. That
That is
is ridiculous.
ridiculous. That
That isis not
not
12
12 what the statute
what the statute says.
says. ItIt says
says they
they can't
can't file
file aa
13
13 certificate of
certificate of compliance
compliance until
until they've
they've adhered
adhered to
to their
their
14
14 discovery obligations.
discovery obligations. Among their discovery
Among their discovery obligation
obligation is is
15
15 complying with
complying with 245.20.
245.20.
16
16 II believe
believe Ms.
Ms. Necheles
Necheles has
has mischaracterized Your
mischaracterized Your

17
17 Honor's ruling,
Honor's ruling, which
which II would quote, even
would quote, even though
though II handed
handed
18
18 it up,
it up, this
this is
is an
an email
email from
from your
your Honor
Honor on
on October
October 4th
4th of
of
19
19 2022, good
2022, good afternoon.
afternoon. CPLCPL Section
Section 245.20
245.20 (4)
(4) (A)
(A) requires
requires
20
20 the defense
the defense to
to "disclose
"disclose toto the
the prosecution and permit
prosecution and the
permit the

21
21 prosecution
prosecution toto discover,
discover, inspect,
inspect, copy,
copy, or
or photograph
photograph and
and
22
22 material and relevant
material and relevant evidence
evidence that
that is
is discoverable
discoverable under
under
23
23 paragraphs
paragraphs F,F, G,
G, H,
H, J,
J, L,
L, and
and O,
0, which
which the
the defendant
defendant
24
24 intends to
intends to introduce
introduce atat trial.
trial.
25
25 Then your
Then your Honor
Honor goes
goes on
on to
to say
say that
that that
that includes
includes the
the
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 64
64

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 exhibits that
exhibits that they
they intend
intend --
-- Sub
Sub FF has
has to
to do
do with
with experts.
experts.
2
2 Your Honor
Your Honor goes
goes on
on to
to explain
explain that
that that
that means that they
means that they
3
3 have to
have to make their expert
make their expert disclosure
disclosure and
and any
any exhibits
exhibits that
that
4
4 they intend
they intend to
to introduce
introduce through
through their
their experts.
experts.
5
5 So II believe
So believe that
that that
that characterization
characterization of
of Your
Your
6
6 Honor's prior
Honor's ruling is
prior ruling is incorrect.
incorrect. But II think
But think what's
what's

7
7 happening here
happening here is
is very
very interesting,
interesting, because
because this
this is
is the
the
8
8 mechanism
mechanism byby which
which they
they refuse
refuse to
to comply
comply with
with their
their
9
9 discovery obligations,
discovery obligations, byby saying,
saying, though
though it's
it's not
not in
in the
the
10
10 statute, their
statute, their obligation
obligation isis responsive.
responsive. Meaning,
Meaning, it's
it's not
not
n
11 triggered until
triggered until presumably til we
presumably til we rest
rest and
and we've
we've already
already
12
12 identified 336
identified 336 exhibits.
exhibits. SoSo what
what are
are they
they waiting
waiting for?
for?
13
13 That interpretation
That interpretation will
will allow
allow them
them til
til they've
they've
14
14 already filed
already filed aa certificate
certificate ofof compliance.
compliance. So So II think
think that
that
15
15 some clarity
some clarity from
from your
your Honor
Honor would
would be
be useful.
useful.
16
16 MS. NECHELES:
MS. NECHELES: While it's not
While it's not in
in the
the statute,
statute,
17
17 it's in
it's in the
the Constitution
Constitution ofof the
the United
United States.
States. We have no
We have no
18
18 obligation to
obligation to prove
prove things.
things. The
The government
government does.
does. So So of
of
19
19 course they
course they have
have to
to give us all
give us all the
the documents
documents that
that they're
they're
20
20 going to use
going to use to
to prove things. We
prove things. We have
have no
no obligation
obligation toto
21
21 anything in
anything in evidence.
evidence. We We have
have not
not formed
formed an
an intention
intention to to
22
22 put anything because
put anything because we
we respond
respond to
to what
what --
--
23
23 THE COURT:
THE COURT: II agree,
agree, you
you don't
don't have
have an
an obligation
obligation
24
24 to present
to present aa case.
case. You
You don't have an
don't have an obligation
obligation toto
25
25 introduce anything
introduce anything into
into evidence.
evidence. That's
That's true.
true. What I'm
What I'm

Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 65
65

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 going to do
going to do is
is go
go back
back and
and reread
reread this
this packet
packet of
of materials
materials

2
2 you just
you just handed
handed up
up to
to me.
me. Unless there
Unless there is
is clear
clear error
error that
that

3
3 II made
made there,
there, chances
chances are
are I'm
I'm going
going to
to probably
probably render
render the
the

4
4 same ruling
same ruling II did
did there.
there.
5
5 To the
To the extent
extent that
that you
you have
have discovery
discovery obligations,
obligations, II
6
6 direct you
direct you to
to comply
comply with
with your
your discovery
discovery obligations.
obligations. At
At

7
7 this time,
this time, that
that would include any
would include any trial
trial exhibits
exhibits when
when you
you

8
8 know that
know that you're
you're going
going to
to be
be introducing
introducing them.
them. I'm not
I'm not
9
9 talking about
talking about cross
cross examination.
examination. I'm talking
I'm talking about
about the
the
10
10 defense case.
defense case.
11
11 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: We understand, your
We understand, your Honor's
Honor's ruling,
ruling,
12
12 and as
and as my
my colleague
colleague just said,
said, we have understood it
it every

13
13 time they have
time they emailed us
have emailed it.
about it.
us about The challenge
The is,
here is,
challenge here
14
14 we are not
we are not asking
asking your
your Honor
Honor to
to reverse
reverse yourself
yourself on
on
15
15 something you
something you did
did in
in aa completely
completely different
different criminal
criminal trial.
trial.
16
16 We're asking that
We're asking that the
the People
People treat
treat this
this criminal
criminal trial
trial on
on
17
17 it's own
it's oun 44 legs.
legs.
18
18 THE COURT:
THE COURT: That's fine.
That's fine. That's not
That's not a
a problem.
problem.

19
19 We can do
We can do that.
that. II encourage
encourage the
the People
People to
to do
do that.
that. To
To the
the
20
20 extent I'm
extent I'm being
being shown
shown aa ruling
ruling II made,
made, II think
think that's
that's
2
21 relevant and
relevant and II should
should look
look at
at it.
it.
22
22 Now II also
Now also can
can understand
understand their
their position.
position. At this
At this

23
23 stage of
stage of the
the game,
game, for
for the
the defense
defense not
not to
to have
have identified
identified a
a

24
24 single trial
single trial exhibit
exhibit is
is difficult to comprehend.
difficult to comprehend. But I
But I

25
25 remind you
remind you now
now of
of your
your discovery
discovery obligations.
obligations. I'm
I'm

Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 66
66

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 reminding you
reminding you that
that there
there could
could be
be sanctions
sanctions for
for failure
failure to
to
2
2 comply, particularly
comply, if the
particularly if the People
People are
are in
in any
any way
way
3
3 prejudiced.
prejudiced. At that point,
At that point, the
the remedy
remedy could
could bebe preclusion.
preclusion.

4
4 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Judge,
Judge, II hear
hear what
what your
your Honor
Honor isis
5
5 saying, and
saying, and accept
accept it.
it. But
But it
it is
is appropriate
appropriate to to look
look at
at
6
6 this case
this case in
in aa different
different manner than certainly
manner than certainly the
the Trump
Trump
7
7 Organization criminal case.
Organization criminal case. The
The People
People have
have been
been
8
8 investigating this
investigating this for
for 6,
6, 77 years,
years, and
and we
we are
are still
still getting
getting

9
9 discovery as
discovery as recently
recently as
as 22 days
days ago,
ago, sparse
sparse and
and only
only aa few
few
10
10 things, but
things, still getting
but still getting discovery
discovery asas recent
recent asas 22 days
days
n
11 ago.
ago.

12
12 The People,
The People, although
although they
they have
have identified
identified 336
336
13
13 exhibits, have
exhibits, have not
not yet
yet formed
formed an
an intention
intention about
about what
what
14
14 they're going
they're going to
to offer
offer from,
from, for
for experts,
experts, Mr.
Mr. Cohen's
Cohen's cell
cell
15
15 phone. It's not
phone. It's not just
just President
President Trump
Trump who
who hasn't,
hasn't, this
this
16
16 close to
close to trial,
trial, identified
identified the
the full
full set
set of
of evidence
evidence used
used atat
17
17 trial. The
trial. The People
People share
share the
the same
same burden.
burden.
18
18 If you're
If you're comparing
comparing the
the 2,
2, this
this has
has been
been through
through 22
19
19 grand juries, and
grand juries, and certainly
certainly something,
something, aa case
case that
that when
when wewe

20
20 look at
look at the
the way it was
way it was presented,
presented, nono reason
reason for
for it
it to
to be
be
21
21 indicted aa year
indicted year ago.
ago.
22
22 THE COURT:
THE COURT: We're
We're going far field.
going far field. YouYou have
have my
my
23
23 decision.
decision. YouYou will
will have
have time
time to
to review
review it
it once
once we break
we break

24
24 here. Is
here. Is there
there anything
anything else
else from
from the
the defense
defense oror
25
25 prosecution
prosecution we need to
we need to go
go over?
over?
Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter
 67
67

PROCEEDINGS
PROCEEDINGS

1
1 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: No, thank
No, thank you,
you, Judge.
Judge.
2
2 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: Your Honor,
Your Honor, again,
again, II was
was going
going to
to
3
3 say this
say this before
before we dealt with
we dealt with the
the last
last logistical
logistical issue,
issue, we
we
4
4 strenuously object
strenuously object to
to what
what is
is happening
happening in
in this
this courtroom.
courtroom.
5
5 II know
know you've
you've let
let me
me make a record,
make a record, and
and II appreciate
appreciate that,
that,
6
6 but the fact
but the fact that
that we
we are
are going
going to
to now
now spend
spend the
the next
next 22
7
7 months working on
months working on this
this trial
trial instead
instead of
of out
out on
on the
the campaign
campaign
El8 running for
running for President,
President, is
is something
something that
that it
it should
should not
not
99 happen in
happen in this
this country.
country. It's just
It's just not
not --
--
10
10 THE COURT:
THE COURT: What's your
What's your legal
legal argument
argument at
at this
this
1
11 point?
point? Are you making
Are you a legal
making a legal argument?
argument?
12
12 MR. BLANCHE:
MR. BLANCHE: That is
That is my legal argument.
my legal argument.
13
13 THE COURT:
THE COURT: That's not
That's not aa legal
legal argument.
argument.
14
14 Anything else? See
Anything else? See you
you March 25th.
March 25th.

15
15 MR. STEINGLASS:
MR. STEINGLASS: Thank
Thank you.
you.
16
16 aan
*****

17 | This
17 This is
is certified
certified to
to be a true
be a true and
and accurate
accurate transcript
transcript
18 |[ of
18 of the
the above
above proceedings recorded by
proceedings recorded by me.
me.

19
19 s 2h
2
20
Ge (Gert
________________________________

21
21 YVONNE OVIEDO
YVONNE OVIEDO
SENIOR COURT
SENIOR COURT REPORTER
REPORTER
22
22

23
23

24
24

25
25

Yvonne Oviedo,
Yvonne Oviedo, Senior
Senior Court
Court Reporter
Reporter