File (2002-055) William M. Buie SUBJECT: H. Brent Coles; Gary Lyman; Misuse of City Funds; False Statements; DATE:

MEMORANDUM

01/14/03
Dillon; Suie;

cc

Attached is a transcript of an interview of Kelli Fairless conducted by Buie on

1/02103 .

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 1 of 48

WB: KF: WB:

William M. Buie Kelli Fairless Okay, this is Bill Buie with the Idaho Attorney General's office. investigator. Today is January 2nd, 2003. I'm the criminal

I'm with Kelll, K-E-L-L-I, Fairless, F-ARide located at number is

I-R-L-E-S-S, who's the Executive Director of Valley, V-A-L-L-E-Y, 830 North Main Street, Suite 230. Meridian, 208-846-8547. ldaho.

Her telephone

Prior to activating the uh recorder, I did advise Kelll as to the The time is now 10:41 a.m. Kelll how long

e··
KF: WB: KF:

nature and purpose of this interview.

have you been employed for Valley Ride as the Executive Director? I started as the Interim Executive Director in November of 2000. But I was an

employee of the City of Boise between November 2000 and August of 2001. Urn hum I became uh the Executive or the full-time Executive Director of Valley Ride in August of 2001. And I'm actually an employee of Canyon County. My pay is

through Canyon County. WB: KF: WB: Oh it is? Yeah. Okay. Well what is Valley Ride? Are they like a uh Valley Agency or something?

e

interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 2 of 48

KF:

Yeah.

We're a, a regional agency that we're the public transportation

authority.

We were created uhm by votes, by vote of the citizens in 1998 to operate or to uhm plan and coordinate public transportation services in the valley. WB: KF: So were you hired, did you work for the city of Boise? Did you say that?

I worked for the city of Boise.

I was uhm I worked in the mayor's office as the

Labor Relations Manager between uh March of 1999 and November of 2000. Actually I was continued in that capacity. I took a leave of absence as the Labor


WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: •

Relations Manager. Valley Ride and

Uhm Gary Lyman and the mayor asked me to come over to get the organization started up because I'd had transit

experience

and they needed someone

in an interim capacity to start up the

organization and to provide some leadership. So were you actually hired by Gary Lyman and the mayor? I was hired by Gary Lyman and the mayor. Yeah. To be the Director, Executive Director- of Valley Ride. Well I was originally hired by them to be the Labor Relations Manager then they asked me to do this as are-assignment. Okay. My City of Boise duties. I understand. Canyon County? Now you'd mentioned earlier uh that you're salary is paid by

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 3 of 48

KF:

Yeah. I am uh when I took this position; Canyon County agreed to have me act as an employee of Canyon County. Or to be an employee of Canyon County and then Valley Ride essentially reimburses Canyon County for my salary.

WB:

Okay. I see. All right. And how long, did you tell me how long you worked for the mayor's office. Was that?

KF:

I worked from March of 1999 until uh officially I was off the city payroll in August

of 2001. WB: • KF: WB: KF: Okay and that position, to reiterate it, you were hired by Gary Lyman for that position. For the Labor Relations Manager position. Yeah. How long had you known Gary Lyman at that time? I knew Gary from, I think it was sometime in 1994, early 1994 is when I first met Gary. I began: I was an intern in the mayor's office in 1993 and for I think for about six months from June 1993 until uhm December and then I was hired at Boise Urban Stages. And Gary came to the mayor's office after I'd left, but I knew him through my uhm work in-at Boise Urban Stages. WB: Let's talk a little bit about Boise Urban Stages. correct?
KF: Right.

That's also known as BUS,

WB:

Uh is that under the supervision of Valley Ride?

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 4 of 48

KF:

Yes.

We operate, we actually own and operate the, we own the transit assets

now and we operate the services. WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: And where is that office located? It uhm 4755 South Orchard. Right near? By Gowen Field. Oh it's way out there, okay. Um Hum All right. And who is the director of BUS or the manager. The uhm transit services director is Grant Jones. Okay ... now how long has he been in that position? Grant was hired in September of Who hired him? He was uh actually the way that came about is Valley Ride requested that we add the General Manager position around the time that I took the job as the Executive Director. And Gary asked if, if the city could be uhm originally the city But I wasn't particularly

KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF:

2001.

wanted that position to be an employee of the city.

comfortable with that because I was ultimately responsible for the work that they

did. So I wanted to make sure that if they had a person there that they actually worked directly for me. And the condition that I'd be able to have that was that

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

e

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 5 Of 48

Gary wanted to be uhm, wanted to be, playa role in recruiting the person for the job. WB: KF: WB:
KF:

I -- I don't un, I don't quite understand this. Okay. Okay go over real slow. We've got plenty of time here.
Okay.

WB:

So you were with, go ahead and explain to me. So I - I worked as, as the Executive Director of Valley Ride. Excuse me. At the time Grant Jones was hired? Yes. You were Executive Director of Valley Ride. Right. Which goes back to ...sometime in, I forget the date. August. It was within the, it. what gets confusing is during November between November and August,
J

e.·

KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF:

was actually a City employee reassigned to be the

interim Executive Director of Valley Ride. WB: KF: And you came, you became director in August 2001. In August 2001. Grant was hired late September 2001.
Okay.

W8:

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003
Case No.: 2002~055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 6 of 48

KF:

And one of the uhm issues, when I was considering doing that that job permanently, was I needed someone that could manage the transit services because the Executive Director needed to be doing other things. So when I

worked through the City Budget System to get a position to get someone hired, to be able to put the position in the budget and there was uh, uh issue between me and the City about who that person would work for. Whether they'd work directly for the City and run the bus system or whether they would work for Valley


WB: KF:

Ride. I wanted them to work for Valley Ride because I wanted to be able to directly supervise them and be able to terminate them if things weren't working well. Uhm So when I met with Gary and that was Alec Andrus at the time, Alec was the one that was really pushing to have the person be the City's employee, because they wanted to be able to uhm oversee their work. And Gary said that uhm his concern was that he could be involved in hiring the person. Gary wanted to be involved? Gary wanted to be the person th-that was involved in recruiting and hiring the person. And I uhm and as the customer, cause they really were at that time a customer of ours and that's not unusual in transit when you're, when you're providing services for the uhm for the, I guess the client essentially, to b...to have

say in who you might hire, to have some involvement in that. So that didn't seem

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 7 of 48

that unusual.

I talked to our Soard Chair and our Vice Chair and they were

comfortable with it. And so uhm we moved on from there. WB: KF: WS: KF: WB: Okay. So Gary's the one who recommended Grant Jones? Yes. Toyou? Yes. And uh how would, before I ask uh a qu- -a question which I have on my mind; there's another question. for this position? KF: WB: KF: Uh hum how would you do that? What, typically what we would do is put out some kind of advertisement, jobs either with Job Service, put an advertisement know, in other areas uhm in the newspaper. post the How would you normally pursue, try to recruit someone

You, you with your experience,

in Trade Journals or uhm you Uhm we might know of some Uhm and

people who were, you know, interested and maybe visit with them.

then post the job, take applications and go through the selection process. WB: KF: Did you want to do that? Uhm I wasn't uncomfortable with going this other way. I guess at the time, I was probably feeling pretty desperate to get some help. And uhm and so it in some ways seemed like the path of least resistance. And you know in hindsight, I

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 8of48

probably wish I would have done it differently. I mean now that I've, I've had the experience. If I were to go back and do it again I wouldn't, I'll never do it this way again. I mean, I can tell you that pretty honestly. WB: You feel that pressure was applied to you to go in the manner in which you did to ... to fill this position?
KF: Um I think the only pressure I felt is that it was so important to me that I could

directly supervise the person that I didn't want uh 1--1 don't know that I would say


WB: KF:

that it was explicitly said that that was the condition of me being able to have the person work directly for me. But uhm I certainly felt that was the path of least resistance. Does that make sense? I didn't feel like there was, there was never any explicit. ..if you don't hire the person we want then they won't work for you, they'll work for the City of Boise. Uh and I was feeling pretty, I was feeling pretty stretched at that point. in terms of just being able to stay on top of the things that I needed to do. Uhm SO...but I don't, there was never any explicit statement that, jf you don't do it this way then you're not going to get that. So how did you learn about Mr. Jones? Gary called and offered him as a suggestion for the position. And basically said that uhm that the City was interested in someone that had uhm a public relations

kind of background for the position because they wanted someone that has, had some experience marketing and uh marketing services. We had had one of our

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 9of48

previous general managers, Relations.

her background was also in Marketing and Public She'd been uhm very and in. I

And, and she had done a really good job. interested

effective in getting uhm employers guess, expanding-the things. WB: KF:

in public transportation

system and expanding rider ship and dolnq those kinds of

So I'd had that as a previous experience.

Who was that person? Uhm her name is Debbie Ruggles. first hired at BUS in She was the General Manager when I was

1994.

WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WS: KF: WB:

So you worked for her? Urn Hum Debbie how do you spell her last name? Debbie Ruggles, it's Debbie, O-E-B-B-I-E, Okay. And Ruggles, R-U-G-G-L-E-S. And where is she now? She's in uhm Fort Worth, Texas. So you worked for her and then, okay, and then you went with the city. Right. So Gary only suggested Mr. Jones name? He uhm that's the only name he offered, at the time.

KF:

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003
Case No.: 2002~055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 10 of 48

WS: KF: WB: KF:

At the time, and this was a telephone conversation? Yeah. At the time of the conversation, do you recall the date of that conversation? That would have been, let's see, would have probably been late August, mid to late August of 2001.

WB:

And that's when you became the ... Urn hum.

KF: WB: • KF: WB:

Director of Valley Ride. Right, right. Had you at any time suggested that you had some names that you would consider?

KF:

At that point I hadn't done any recruiting, so I hadn't had any names available at the time.

WB: KF: WB: KF: WB:
KF:

So only one person was considered for this position?
Urn hum.

There was no advertisement. Huh um Did you find this unusual?
Uhm It's not how we've done them in the past, but for an executive-type position,

I guess that it was the way they hired me as the Labor Relations Manager and I

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 11 of 48

think it's the way that a lot of hiring had been done. wasn't directly involved in a lot of that.

It. .. it my impression and I

But my impression was that that wasn't So uhm And in

an unusual way for the City to recruit and place people in positions. again in hindsight, it's the only time I've done that, done it that way.

hindsight, I don't think I would do, go that direction again. WB: KF: Explain that. Well I just have found that, gosh I don't know how to put this, I found that what I, I believed that the technical pretty easily. side of transit is something that people can learn Uhm but and I, and I

It's not, you know, it's not rocket science.

because I'd had the experience of working with a person who was a marketing public relations person, I did buy the argument that, you know, having someone with that baCkground can be very beneficial to have the leader of the organization really understand how you deliver services to the customer and how you relate to the customer is pretty important. So it was easy for me to see that as a good fit.

But what I hadn't expected was the struggle of being able to teach the transit side of it and to have that piece of it. Uhm and also the challenge of having had Gary do the recruitment part of it. There were things that and Gary just wasn't a real good communicator in terms of telling me, you know, what kind of arrangements

had been made and those sorts of things. That I didn't feel comfortable with, but it uh a lot of that had happened before uhm you know, I had and I found out

Interview Of: KeJJi airless F Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 12 of 48

about some of that stuff after the fact. In terms of you know uhm what kinds of uhm and it's not unusual in an executive position to negotiate a, an employment contract. What's unusual is that...1 was the employer and I wasn't involved in that part of it. And that was frustrating to me. WB:
KF:

So are you referring to the hiring of Grant Jones?
Yeah.

WB: KF: •

Explain what communications took place that you weren't aware of. Well in terms of uh Gary told me that he wanted to offer, he wanted the City was willing to pay a higher salary than what I had budgeted. I had originally budgeted $65,000. And he didn't think that Grant would be interested for that amount.

They thought that it needed to be...that he was coming from a position where he made more in the 75 to 80 thousand range. And that uhm so that was one area that he had talked to me about ahead of time, so it didn't come as a surprise. The other was that he had offered Grand three weeks of vacation the firsL.his first year. When usually in-under our organization, you're not eligible for three weeks of vacation until you've been with the organization for five years. So and part of it is, I don't know if, you know, we also have floating holidays. So if you add the floating holidays and the vacation it could equal about almost three

weeks the first year. But it was just, ..that's the discussion that occurred that I didn't have anything to do with.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003
Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie
Page 13 of48

WS: KF: W8: KF: W8: KF: W8: KF: • WB: KF:

How did you find out about this? From Grant. He told you? Um hum. So what was Grant hired at? He was hired. I think it was seventy-five thousand. And you had budgeted sixty-five? Sixty-five. Do you believe that the seventy-five was excessive? It's not, it's not uhm if you 10... were to do comparative of other transit systems that's not. Sixty-five is probably on the low side. And I at the time, I was trying to make sure that we weren't uhm I thought it would probably be difficult to recruit someone at sixty-five thousand just because uhm they tend to be, to get someone that's, you know, that's good you tend to have to go a little higher but uh I, I also was, I also didn't want to ask for more than I thought the City would be agreeable to put in the budget.

WB:

And had you discussed the budgeted amount of sixty-five thousand with someone in the City who agreed to that amount prior to the hiring of Grant.

KF:

Yeah. Alec Andrus is who I worked with to develop our budget and that went

through the City Council. In the budget proposal was uh General Manager, what

Interview Of: KelJi Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 14 of48

was the, there was a few things that we asked for in the budget that year. And the General Manager was one of them. And uhm that was the budgeted

amount...that the Council had agreed to. And that sixty-five thousand salary plus fringe and benefits so it bumps that up a little bit more. WB: Did uhm so how did this discussion come up between you and Grant that you
found out about what he was receiving as a salary and his vacation pay at three

weeks or his vacation of three weeks? KF: • The uhm salary I'd heard about from Gary and the vacation, when Grant was asking for vacation time off. I had, he was asking, he was taking vacation time prior to when he was actually eligible to take the vacation time. He was

requesting it. And I told him that he wasn't eligible for vacation time until he'd been there for a year. And he said that he and Gary had had the conversation about uh he was to get the three weeks of vacation and, and uhm and that, because that's what he was getting at some other job he had or that was the typical amount that he thought uhm you know, and he should get. And so I can't remember, it seemed like it wasn't.. .it was probably last summer. I think it was around ... cause Grant was going to some weddings in Seattle. So it was around July. June or July that I found out about that.
WB: So when was he hired?

KF:

September.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 15 of 48

WB: KF: WB:

So we're talking about July of 2002. I'm sorry. Right. Yeah. Yeah. [clearing throat] Did you now you mentioned uh, did you talk to Gary about this later after, about vacation policy that he had established for Grant?

KF:

No I didn't.

And part of it is I didn't uhm Gary wasn't always real accessible in worth my time. One of the

terms of. and I-I didn't feel like it was worthwhile, things

I did is, talk to Grant about the fact that everybody

gets two weeks

vacation up to the first five years.

So you get two weeks every year, till you've But we also

been with Valley Ride for five years and then you get three weeks. have four floating holidays that everybody gets.

So by the time you add the two

weeks of vacation and the four floating holidays you're close to the three weeks. So I figured that as long as we counted ali of that, we'd probably be close to the three weeks it's just an additional day. And uhm I did talk to Grant about that but I didn't document any of that uhm it was more just a conversation we had as he was, as I was looking at his vacation request because what I determined is that he could take the floating holidays. Those you're eligible to take before you've

been here for a year but not after that. And that was another, you know, I came back kind of just beating myself up for having made, you know, agreed to

something that I wasn't involved in and the whole thing didn't feel that good to me at that point either so ...

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 16 of 48

WS: KF:

Was, at the time did you have discussion with Grant was he argumentative? Huh urn. No he was just, you know, he just stated that that's what Gary had told him and uhm and you know, Grant and I get along pretty well as far as uhm there's some, there's tension in some areas because of uh I, I think just that the ... one of the reasons I regret having gone this way is, I think its been hard for him to understand who it is he works for. That when. you know, he had an idea of what he was supposed to do based on conversations he had with Gary an --


WB: KF: WS: KF: WS: KF:

and the mayor and its been hard for me to get him to shift gears when there's a larger interest for our organization to do something in a way that he doesn't think, you know, he doesn't think that he was hired to do that kind of situation. I want to get back to that area ... Okay. in a few minutes, but let's, you mentioned the mayor. Um hum What involvement was the mayor as far as hiring Grant? The mayor or Gary offered Grant as a suggestion for the position. And then he sat up a meeting. I guess Grant may have met with the mayor alone. I'm not sure. But I know that we all three met with Grant. Uhm Had lunch with him uh

W8:

We three meaning?

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 17 of 48

KF:

Gary, the mayor and I and Grant all met together one day and talked about the position. And, and uhm it was, you know, an opportunity for me to ask Grant some questions and to get kind of an idea of what his background was in terms of supervisory and management and things like that.

WB:
KF:

Well what, what was the mayor's part in this discussion?
He just was there and uhm basically uhm I'm trying to remember, talked to, just

talked about the City's interest in promoting BUS. And, and you know, about


WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF:

Grant's background as uh uhm in community relations and public relations. And mostly Grant and I actually did a lot of talking. Gary and the mayor didn't do as much of the talking at that point. But that, That I remember. Excuse me. At that discussion was salary already determined? No. I don't think we'd even talked about salary at that point. Do you know if Grant ever discussed the salary arrangements with, we know that he discussed them with Gary but how about the mayor? I would be very surprised if he had. I don't know that for sure. But I'd be

surprised that wasn't something that uhm he's always talked about that

conversation or my understanding from Gary was that conversation occurred between Grant and Gary and that the mayor wasn't involved in that.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 18 of48

WB:

Okay. Uh there was an area that I was going to get back with you on. What was that uh.

KF: WB:

Oh about uhm oh some of maybe my thoughts about having regrets, Jet see. Yeah continue on that. Lyman? Did you ever discuss these regrets with Ga, with Gary

KF: WB: KF: •.

No. I didn't. Or with the mayor or anyone else? No. And uhm I mean I don't know that they've been, they've been, it's been

more of an annoyance than it has been uhrn you know, if I felt like Grant was incompetent or, you know, where I don't think Grant's incompetent. I think Grant

just has a different view of what his position is and what he should be doinq. And, and uhm so if I have felt that it was just a matter of being incompetent and that there was, you know, something that seriously, some serious implication

because of that, I would have probably have pushed that more. I think more that, what's been harder for me is, I don't think Grant has uhm I guess respected my authority as much as I'd like. loyalty to our organization In a position like that where I really rely on his And I

and-and to me to be able to further our goals.

felt like the loyalty has not been uh what I was hoping to get. And Grant to be

real honest has said to me that he felt like he was uhm offered a job that he hasn't essentially gotten. Cause he thought that, you know, that it was basically

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 19 of 48

he was going to promote BUS.

And not necessarily see the bigger picture of

what we're trying to do at a regional level. WB: How is, so is that a fairly decent summary of his performance? rated? How would you rate his performance Uh how is he

uh other than what you've already

discussed? KF: Well I did a performance evaluation in uhm gosh when was that, it was around October this year. I did an annual evaluation and basically in the areas of, he

was, and I was I felt really honest about my appraisal of his performance was in the kind of in the mid to average range. And a lot of the areas that have to do

with the more technical aspects of the job. Uhm in terms of what he's been able to accomplish over there. in terms of improving employee morale and uh building a team Uhm he's just, he's go real skills. And, and I think he's

I think he's been very effective at that.

good people skills and real good communication

been pretty effective at, at uh taking an organization that had pretty low morale and people felt uhm 1--1guess what's the word? Uhm People because of just the history of BUS just not always been, its not, its always been where people feel like they're kind of the ugly red-headed step-child of the city. And he's really

been able to give to them a sense of, of uhm community there and sense of

teamwork. And so that I think has been a real positive uhm he's done uh, uh I think a good job at promoting the BUS and community. Uhm I think the areas

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 20 of 48

where, where I have asked him to pay more attention or to do more work is really learning the transit piece of it. And understanding, you know, the budgeting andand hawaII that works. And uh a lot of those kinds of issues that I would have liked to have turned over to him, I haven't really felt comfortable turning over to him because I don't think he's had the opportunity to really understand, you
know. And I don't really want to take that chance and wake up one day and find

out there's no money over at BUS because I wasn't paying attention to that. And


WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF:

he has been somewhat critical of me, that saying that I micro managed him. But uhm part of that is because of his background. And not having the transit

background, I felt its been very important for me to stay on top of uh on top of it. And so he perceives that as being micro managed, where I perceive that as, as uh me being a good manager, and its just a difference of opinion there. Has he related his feelings in terms of a conversation? With me? With you? Yeah. On personal or over the phone or No, we were over in my office. Uhm One, one thing that happened a couple of
months ago, we started operating Garden City's services. And a couple of

months ago, I uhm what I, he had put out a press release on this Gar, on the

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002~055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 21 of48

Garden City services without running it by me ahead of time. And it just wasn't anything close to what I would have done or wanted to have done. And I didn't appreciate the fact that I hadn't been informed. One that he was even putting it out and had a chance to look at it ahead of time and talk to him about what I thought the direction we needed to go. And it was a matter of uhm and so I had
called him and expressed to him my unhappiness about seeing the press release

and that it wasn't even close to what I wanted. And he had to bring something by here, so he came here and he and I talked about it and that's basically where he suggested that uhm he hadn't really been given the job that he thought he was getting, when he had talked with Gary and the mayor. And that uhm he felt like I was micro-managing him. And if I wanted to manage BUS then he probably should just step aside and let me manage BUS. And basically what I told him is that I thought that, this was also after his performance evaluation. And one of the things he said is he's always gotten stellar performance evaluations from his employers. And that you know, he's always gotten really good reviews. And he didn't feel like his review was very stellar. I was very honest with where I thought he was at. And that's kind of how I do things. And it wasn't its, you know, not my job to be his best friend. Its my job to evaluate his performance and try to help

him, you know, strive to be better than, than where he's at. So he uhm we had

the conversation about micro managing. And basically. you know, I told him that

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

e

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 22 of48

I wasn't going to uhm change how I was supervising him. That as I got more comfortable with his level of experience that, you know, he'd be more involved in, in different issues. But up to that point, I was going to continue supervise the areas where I thought there were weaknesses. WB:
KF:

What was his comments?
Uhm

W8:

Was he unhappy with that? Well I think by the time we ended the conversation, he seemed okay with it. Uh I don't, you know, I think we both acknowledged that we needed to have, continue to have these kind of conversations so that we were uhm clear about each others expectations. Because I think that's where, you know, it was the uhm its un-

KF:

clarity on, about each other's expectations that has caused some of the frustration. And that's probably the point when I've thought, you know, if I would ever, if I, if I could go back and do this over again, I would certainly have done it differently. Cause J think we would have had a different kind, even if I did end up hiring Grant, we would have had a much different kind of working relationship than we ended up having. WB: Okay so in summary, as far as Gary Lyman's part in placing Grant under your
supervision as the Director of BUS. Is that what you would call it?

e

KF:

Yeah, I'm the Transit Services Director, yeah.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 23 of48

WB:

Uh you had no, as I understand from what you're saying and correct me if I'm wrong that you really had no say so in that.

KF:

I did not have, I wasn't involved in the recruitment other than Gary would call me and check with me about. ..if he called and asked me if I would be opposed to Grant. And at that point, I didn't have any reason to be opposed to Grant. We met one time with Grant And other than that, I wasn't involved in that decision.

WB: KF: •

Did you ever suggest to Gary that you might, that he might consider others? No. I didn't have anyone in mind at that point. My other option would have been to have...

[END SIDE ONE] WB: KF: WB: Thank you let me reverse this. Oh okay. I was reversing, making sure it reversed properly. So I think that we're set for a few more minutes. KF: W8: Okay. Uh, so Grant was the only one hired. background was? Who he worked for? KF: Grant worked for Micron for I think about a year. And uhm I was told that Grant left Micron by his own choice. That he had left Micron because uhm it wasn't a good fit for him. And I knew he worked for Heinz Ore-Ida for like ten years prior Do you know what Grant's prior

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002 055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 24 of 48
w

to that.

And then there was the interim time, I don't know if he had a job or not And I also understood that he worked for

between Heinz and, and uhm Micron. the triple-A

(AAA). Uhm And most of his positions were in Public Relations,

Marketing kinds of positions. WB: What type of working hours does-Grant have? He works uhm he's pretty much like all the executive level folks. Uhm I think he comes in ... we all pretty much make our own hours. done. • WB: KF: He's paid a salary. It's more getting the work

KF:

Uhm I know that I, I he's there any time from 8:30.

And sometimes he's there from six to six-thirty. In the morning? No. He starts sometime between seven-thirty and eight-thirty on any given day. And I'm, usually I can reach him there still as late as six or six-thirty. WB: Does he have any other outside employment to know your knowledge? My, I believe that he has a contract with the airport to do some consulting work for them outside of his position with us. That and the condition uhm I was aware that uh that, that was, that he was going, that he was being considered for that outside work at the time he was hired. And the condition was that it didn't effect his position. Uh that he didn't, that uhm that was done separate and outside of

KF:

his work for Valley Ride. • WB: How did you learn about that?

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 25 of 48

KF:

That was, I believe, that Gary had said that that was uhm that they wanted to have during the terminal period, while they're building the terminal that they

needed someone that could do uhm consulting outside uh contract work for that. So I believe it was from Gary. WB: KF: Was this after Grant was hired or before he was hired? I believe before he was hired. I knew that that they were considering him for that but I don't think he got the contract with them until he after was hired. WB: • KF: Do you know if an actual contract was prepared? I believe that, I remember Grant telling me that this was oh gosh last summer, that he still didn't have a contract. And ... WB: KF: Last summer meaning two thousand and two? Two thousand two I think. Sometime in two thousand two, but it seemed to me

that Grant was feeling frustrated because he couldn't get Gary to return his calls. And he was trying to find out where the, what part of the process they were in to do that contract that uhm he had been performing work for the airport. didn't have a contract to be able to get reimbursed for his hours. But he

And so that's

where uhm he had just talked to me about how frustrated he was about not being able to get Gary to return his calls. WB: • KF: And would you, do you remember about when that was? It seems to me like it was in the April-May time, like early spring or early summer.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 26 of 48

WB: KF: WB: KF:

Of two thousand and two? Two, yeah. What type of work did Grant tell you that he was doing for the airport? I believed he was doing uhm Media Relations and P.R. stuff for the terminal. if uh and I've never actually seen anything that he's done. guessing based on what uhm he's talked about So

So I'm just only

That uhm that if there's an

event at the airport, then he might help coordinate, you know, the media for that or something. • WB: KF: Did he tell you that he had done that? Uhm I don't know that he, I think, I think, I might have heard of like one event that he did. One of the things he, there was some kind of Trade Show or Fair that he helped coordinate. One of the things that uhm he did ask me early on was uhm to the employees that he was doing

and I believe I asked him to communicate this because
J

didn't what them to get confused if he was sometime quoted in the for the airport or if they saw him, you know, on the So I had mentioned to him that he Uhm We used to ... the BUS actually And so

paper as the spokesperson

News speaking on behalf of the airport. probably should let the employees know. used to be managed by the airport staff.

I thought that would end up

confusing them if they saw their General Manager, you know, in this double capacity. But I never did, I never un-got the impression that it was interfering

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 27 of 48

with his work at Valley Ride at all. So I didn't pay, to me it was a private contract he had with the City of Boise that was completely separate from what, what we do. So I didn't get very involved in that. WB: KF: WB: KF: Do you know what he was being paid? Huh um.

I don't have any idea.

You know if he was paid? Huh um. Did you ever have any discussions question. with Gary Lyman? Or maybe I asked that

WB:

KF:

I never talked to Gary other than Gary told me right before he was hired that they were interested terminal. in him doing some contract work for them during the airport

That they needed somebody with his expertise and that they were uhm

interested in doing a private contract with him outside of his role as the general manager or director at BUS. So I knew and was aware and I was aware through Grant, that he was doing some of that work but that he didn't have a contract for a long stretch of time. Whether he's ever gotten a contract or ever been paid, I don't have any idea. And didn't feel that it was my place to even know that.

W8:

And as far as any, any uh services you're only aware that he's done those through Grant himself?

KF:

Yes.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003
Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie
Page 28 of 48

WB: KF: WB:

You never talked ... Talked to Gary about it. Okay. Uh this contract, how recently was it that you had this discussion with Grant about the existence of this contract, which he never received?

KF: W8: KF:

Oh. It would have been in the spring I think, the contract with the airport? Yes. You mean. I think it would have been in the spring. Because we were talking about...the fact that Gary hadn't been returning his calls. And the only reason that he was telling me is just that he was frustrated and I think venting. That he had been trying to get a hold of Gary that uhm there had been work that he had already done that he wanted to get reimbursement for, but the City wouldn't write a check unless he had a contract, so. I just and I don't know if he ever did. He said to me sometime after that with maybe a month later, maybe into June, possibly July he said, "Oh we finally have it worked out and that Gary's finally going to follow through and get the contract done." And uhm and it was more just on a conversation in passing, cause he had already told me how he hadn't had one, he was just letting me know that it looked like it was moving forward.

WB:

Was that the last conversation you had with Grant in regards to this?
Yeah. I haven't talked about it since then.

KF:

Interview Of: Kelll Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 29 of 48

WB:

Other than Grant, have you had any conversations with anyone, including the Airport Manager, regarding uh this, this contract?

KF:

No. I think I mentioned it to the attorney. Matt Wilde who was, he's the airport attorney. And he's also he worked on our behalf trying to-to transition everything. We did a master agreement between the City of Boise and Valley Ride that transferred all the assets and uhm and all the uhm operating responsibilities from Boise City to us. And I'd mentioned it to Matt Wilde when about the time, I think

just about the time, I think just after Grant was hired and Matt sort went, Matt seemed uncomfortable about it. He kind of, there was something in his response that indicated that he was uncomfortable about it. understanding is it's not going to interfere. And I said, 'Well my

That its completely and totally

separate from any of his work under Valley Ride. And that its uh an individ, you know, we don't have a policy in our organization that that people aren't able to have multiple, you know, that they can't contract out as long as its separate from Valley Ride. Where he wouldn't be getting paid, if he, he wasn't gOingto be paid to do what he does for us, for someone else, essentially. So it so completely separate that I thought there was enough distance. And Matt just said that he thought, well he said, "If Grant's comfortable with it, you know, its really kind of

••

on

Grant to make sure that he's complying with that. And its on, you know, its

uhm my responsibility to make sure that there isn't that bleeding over. That he's

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 30 of 48

actually doing his job. I never any concern about whether he was working a full forty-hour week, because I could always find him when ever I needed to. And you know, he would be there sometimes until six-thirty or seven. So I figured that I was getting a week, that you know, a full-time employee out of him. WB: KF: WB: KF: • WB: KF: Do you know, where's his office by the way? It's on South Orchard at the BUS facility. And the address again? 4788 South Orchard. Is that close to ... give me a kind of a Gowen, it's uhrn just like... do you know where the uh oh the uhm the Humane Society.
W8: Uh huh

KF:

Is right, we're right behind the Humane Society there, just a little farther south on Orchard.

WB: KF: WB: KF:
W8:

Are there big buses there? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's a big building. It's got a big bus wash.
Mr. Wilde, Matt Wilde

KF:

Matt Wilde is the City Attorney.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003
Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 31 0148

WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: •

Where's his office? He's at downtown in City Hall. He's in the City Attorney's office. Oh, he's in the City Attorney's office? Um hum. So he's, okay so he works for ... Susie Mimura Susie Mimura. Okay. Um hum. And he didn't. ..he wasn't providing any kind of legal opinion about, he just kind a, it was just one of those things where you could see his eyebrows raise and like hum that seems kind of odd. And uhm kind of wondering if he knew if Grant knew what the, knew how to keep those things separate and that sort of thing. But

WB: KF:

Okay. He's the only other person that I've ever mentioned it to. So, I think that was your question was had I talked to anyone else. [Inaudible]

WB: KF:

Okay. Now can you tell me why you specifically mentioned it to him? Oh. Matt and I talk a lot. And it was, I don't know. I don't know that I was asking ... 1, I think he had said something about, I think it was in relation to ... Matt

might have actually called me. Because he works for the airport and he said,

"What's Grant doing, doing airport work?" And I said and that's how it we-how it

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003
Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 32 of 48

happened. He actually had called me and asked me about it. He said, "I saw Grant on the news," or something you know, being a spokes person for the airport." And I said, "He has a contract with the City to do that." And he's like, "Oh." And he just kind of made a, kind of like. oh well that's kind of odd. And I said. 'Well that was an arrangement that he and Gary had made outside of his employment with us and so I didn't think. you know. it was my, it doesn't violate any of our policies for him to do that." And he said, "Oh that just seems odd." Is

basically all he said. So it was, I think, him, my best recollection is that he called me to vent. WB: Did you ever hear, receive any information that possibly they were just trying to supplement his income to get it more in line with what he was making previously?
KF:

I believe that Gary did say that. I believe that Gary indicated that Grant was used to making hi-higher salary and that he was uhm that they bumped what the city was willing to pay. Cause all the BUS all, everything that that uhm all the funds used to operate BUS come out of the City of Boise. So they determine how much they're going to pay for different things. So it didn't seem that unusual to me that they might want to pay someone more to recruit the person for the job. But uhm Gary did say that he was used to making more money. And that. ..that

this airport thing would uhm help to get him up to the level that. ..that he's used to

making.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 33 of 48

WB:

Did you ever hear of anything uh that the reason they placed him in this position was, have anything to do with running against Mayor Coles for Mayor?

KF: WB: KF:

No. You never heard that? No. I heard uhrn when I knew that Grant had run for City Council. And in one of
our conversations, it would have been before I moved out here. I was still at the

bus offices last December, around during the time of the election actually. I had said something to Grant, "So have you gotten any interest in running for an .: WB: KF: WB: elected office ever again?" He's like, "Nope. Never want to do that again." He ran for City Council and lost, I assume? Yeah. He lost to John Mason. Okay. Uh does anyone know, other than your secretary that we're here today talking about this? And can I ask that you not relate this conversation to anyone else... KF: WB: KF: WB:
KF:

Urn Hum. at this stage. Yeah. I appreciate it. Yeah.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003
Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 34 of48

WB:

And the reason for that is because I would like to interview Mr. Jones but [clearing throat] it's better for our investigation if he not to have any knowledge that we're coming. I'm not going to do it today. I'm going to do it in the morning.

KF: WB:

Uh huh. Okay. Uh as soon as he gets there. So I'm going to drive out there in the morning
around eight-thirty or so.

KF:

Urn Hum. And talk to him. So as far as you know, is he going to be here? He is supposed to be back to work tomorrow. He's been on vacation. So he's at. Off and on for the holiday but he's supposed to report back tomorrow. Okay. Will you know if he's back if I call you in the morning? Um hum Could I call you around eight or so? Urn hum Thank you. Let me give you my cell phone number. Okay.
Cause often on Friday, especially the best way to get a hold of me, 284-2191.

WB:
•. KF:

WB:
KF:
WB:

KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB:
KF:

WB:

Okay. I'm going to call you in the morning.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 35 of 48

KF: WB:

Okay. Now, I want to ask you a couple more questions here. vehicle? Is he provided his own

KF:

He, as the General Manager of BUS, he does have a vehicle. vehicles.

Have one of the

And that's typically the General Manager or the we now, we changed

his title this last uh couple of months to .. .from General Manager of BUS .. .to Transit Services Director. Part of that was because I wanted to shift him away

••
WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB:

from being the, you know, away from the Boise City emphasis to looking at more regionally. So that's why I bounce back and forth between those two positions.

But as part of that uhm position, he has, he has access to a vehicle. You know the, do you know anything about the city's suburban? Huh um. Have you ever seen it? I uhm the only suburban I know of is the one that Gary drives. Which was the one he used to drive? Yeah. Okay. Uh on December the the 11th? KF: Uhm let me look at my calendar that might help me to ... Okay.

11th or do you know where Grant Jones was on December

WB:

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 36 of48

KF:

refresh my memory. other one.

[Pause] December the t t" ...Wednesday ... hum look on my Or there

[Pause] Oh I wonder if that's when he went to Salt Lake. I don't know.

was something,

I know on, let's see on December the 11th no, I

don't know, I don't think he was gone anywhere that I was aware of. I could look at his vacation requests.

I could have someone tell me from the other office if he

had requested time off_ He's been really good when he's not going to be in the office that he requests the time off but and I don't recall anything.

WB: KF: W8: KF: WB: KF: W8: KF: WB: KF: W8:

You know if he used the suburban that day, the one that Gary Lyman used to? I don't know. I'm not aware that he did. Can you find out for me and give me a call? Urn Hum. I'll leave my card with you. Okay. I know he's friends with Tod McKay. They're pretty good friends Um Hum. And uh but other than that, I don't know. Okay, he's real good friends. Yeah. They seem to be really good friends. I'll take it that he's probably also good friends with uh Gary Lyman. You know he's never acted like he and Gary were very good friends. Well would be, Gary be pushing this pushing this position, I wonder?

KF: W8:

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003
Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 37 of 48

KF:

I don't know. And that's why I don't understand, I guess I didn't know, I think that he has been a, from what I understand, he's been involved in a lot of the special functions, like the Millennium Party that the City did. Celebration. Grant was one of the organizers of that. The whole Millennium He also I think, was

involved in the uhm the Millennium Legacy program. So he's just, it was not unusual to see Grant around City Hall all the time when I was working there. So I don't know that, he's never acted as if he and Gary were friends. But I know that he and Tad have been really close. If-if Grant's going to be in the office, he's always visiting Tod. And that's when I always saw him was with Tad. WB: KF: WB: KF: Okay. Hum But that's just from my observation, I don't know anything about. How about the mayor? Do you know if he was good friends with the mayor? Uhm I know that he was a supporter of the mayor. I had always been, at least.

been given the impression he was a supporter of the mayor. And uhm but I don't know if they did any, you know, if they ever socialized outside of, I know when
uhrn that the mayor would involve him in a lot of like the millennium projects and

those sorts of things.

Uhm I know Grant's been on the River Festival Board.

And so they knew uh he knew the mayor and Gary from that as well, cause both,

I think the both of them are on the River Festival Board as well .

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 38 of 48

WB:

Do you know if he was [clears throat] paid for those uh, for those activities on the Board and also for the Millennium Festival?

KF:

My understand is that they were voluntary. But I don't know that for sure. I never saw any records of any payments.

WB:

Okay. And maybe I've asked this and if I have I apologize, but you're not aware of what he was paid for any airport services.

KF: WB: • ' KF: WB:

Huh urn Okay. No. All right well uh and also I would ask that in the event you have any conversations with Gary Lyman, that you not mention to him that I was here.

KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF:

No, I wouldn't. I would appreciate it. Yeah. But for, as a matter of fact, don't mention it to anyone ... Urn hum uh at this stage. We would appreciate it. Can I ask what the capacity that that Grant might have used that suburban. It
may be easier for me to find that out if I know what he might have been, there's

and I don't know what you can tell me. I'm just not sure how I can find out.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 39 of 48

WB:

No. I don't mind you asking at all.

Uh because I don't know, all I know is that

supposedly on December the t t", possibly the 10th, KF: WB: Urn hum. maybe the 12th but somewhere in that range. he supposedly used the suburban. And I believe it was on the KF: WB: KF: • WB: Hum And I would be interested in knowing why he used it and where he went with it. Um hum. So if he went to Salt Lake City on the 11th, and he had the suburban, I would definitely like to know that. KF: WB: Yeah. I'm not, I'm not accusing him and saying that's what he did. I'm just asking if you could come up with some information to help me, I would appreciate it. KF: Yeah. There was some Board meeting that he attended in Salt Lake and he was just gone for the day. So but I can't remember when that was. But I can find that out cause I know I actually signed the sheet that gave him the time off. WB: KF: Okay. So I can find that out. Uhm I was gone, I was in Seattle on the 9th• And that's
11th.

why I thought maybe there'd be something in my calendar that would help trigger

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 40 of 48

what was going on.

I usually have a pretty good memory

but I just can't

remember uhm when that was. WB: KF: WB: Okay. And prior to turning off the recorder, Um hum As I told you up front, we are conducting a criminal investigation. And in that

regard, a lot of information comes to our attention obviously from other people that we talk to uh and if there's anything uh that you are aware of that you think that we should know about uh of any nature involving the mayor, Gary Lyman, • KF: WB: KF: WB: Grant Jones or anyone else ... Um hum. Uh we would appreciate information on that. Okay. And the audit, they've hired external auditors [clearing throat] pardon me. And some of this may, some of this information may turn up uh through their review. But sometimes for example, people in position will ask that an expense item, for whatever reason be buried in the budget of someone else. KF: WB: Urn hum You're aware that that sometimes happens. And that's just an example. Urn hum.

KF:

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 41 of 48

WB:

But is there anything that you can tell me that you think that we should know? I can turn the recorder off, if you prefer that it be off or otherwise.

KF:

Well I know of one thing between Grant and Gary that when you talk about burring things in the budget. I know one, when we did the transportation for the

River Festival this year. And this is just so I, I don't what anything to be come out that I knew that I didn't tell you. So WB: KF: • And I appreciate that. hopefully I'm, you know, I'm not I, I hope that its okay to do this. But anyway,

when Grant was, Grant had been talking to Gary, cause they go to the Board meetings, the River Festival Board meetings. Board. And I'm not on the River Festival

Uhm basically they've, he's told him that Gary said, "Don't worry, we'll for the River Festival." We, our budget has never

cover the transportation

absorbed the River Festival cost. We've either charged the River Festival for it or City has paid it because we don't have it in our budget to do extra work. It's very expensive it's about a fifteen thousand dollar uhm project. And Gary had told

Grant early on when they were first starting their River Festival meetings, don't worry about it, the City will cover it. And then Grant was asking Gary, when are you going to cover it? And Gary, it, I just got the impression that it was going to

come into our budget, but it, we weren't sure how it was going to get there. But we needed to get it covered because we went over our budget basically because

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 42 of 48

of that. Uhm one of the things is because of that that special movement that we did. So how all that all got arranged and whether that all happened in the long run, I'm not exactly sure. But I know there was some discussion between Gary and. and Grant and my impression from Grant was that uhm that it was kind of the end. It wasn't going through the normal process that we typically had gone
through uhm to have those moneys shifted over. But it's not unusual for the City

to pay for that service either. They did it the year before as well. WB: ••• KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: But you are, but you do know that your, that BUS didn't pay for it. Is that right? I know that BUS didn't pay for it. So we don't know how it was paid for. Right. And it was probably somewhere in the neighborhood of fifteen thousand? I think that it would have been about fifteen thousand dollars. So you don't know is Grant was aware or not. I know that Grant was the one who has worked with Gary to get it uhm transferred into our budget. So that and whether Dr not Gary went through Alec, the Budget Director, I'm not exactly sure how all that happened because uhm that was all stuff Grant was working on.

WB:

But it was never transferred in your opinion?

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: WilHam M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003
Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 43 of 48

KF:

I don't know if, if it was, it wasn't as of the end of the physical year. But Grant had indicated to me, gosh it seems like around early November, that it was all taken care of. That it was, it was in the budget. So that cause it kind of helped us at the end of the year. Cause we were doing our year-end stuff at that point.

WB: KF:

So if it was in the budget it means that BUS absorbed the cost, I assume. Well BUS, I think that that it got transferred over ... I'm assuming it got transferred over from the mayor's office. But I'm not sure where it got transferred over. Uhm


WB: KF:

that's something it probably wouldn't be that hard for us to find out. Uhm My understanding is that it did end up in the budget according to Grant. And we calculated that into our year-end. How we came out at the end of the year was that we were going to have that transferred in. And it seems to me that Grant told me that it got taken care of. That's my recollection. And when you say transferred into the budget? We're in the City's; we're in the City's accounting system. So you can do internal transfers of money from one account to another without, its not like we're on an external accounting system where they actually would have to write us a check and we'd put it in the bank. WB:
KF:

Okay.
Right now, we're in the City's accounting system at least between and until April

we'll be on our own.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of lnterview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 44 of 48

WB: . KF: WS: KF: WB: KF: WB:

Okay . Could you find that out for me? Um Hum. How that was handled? Yeah.

You don't need to now. But Yeah I'll [inaudible]

I'll appreciate it very much. Okay. I think we've pretty well discussed everything,
let me just briefly just go over my notes here. [Pause] out about the ... And you're going to find

KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF:

Suburban. Suburban. Yeah. [Pause] You know what Grant's uh phone number is out there? Yeah its 336-1019. Okay. And his extension is 4119. Actually, let me give you the number where you can Its

actually talk to someone then you don't have to go through the voicemail. uhm and I'll give you his cell phone number, too. WB: • KF: For Grant? Yeah, its 284-2193.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless

Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003
Case No.: 2002-055

Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 45 of 48

WB:
KF:

Is Grant's cell phone? Yeah. And uhm it's the 336 if you dial 336-1010, then you actually can talk to a person, who can get him for you. The other numbers are automatic voicemail system.

WB:

Okay. I'm, I'm not going to call him before I go out there. I just, in the event he isn't there or something, I want to find out if there's a way I could reach him or leave him a message.

KF: W8: KF: WB: KF: WB:

And I have his home phone number, too, if you would like that? Yeah, I'd like that too.

Okay. And he's supposed to be back tomorrow? Yeah. I think he's in town. I think he just takes, took some extra time off. Okay. All right. Thank you. the ... looks like I have. should talk about? [inaudible] check my notes here. And I'll turn

So ts there anything else that we, that you think we

KF:

No.

I'm just wondering, I guess, is this in terms of Valley Ride and our

organization, is there I mean does this end up, is this somehow going to, have the potential of reflecting bad on us? Or

WS:

Uh ... 1don't know why.

KF:

Okay.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 46 of48

WB:

And uh we could discuss this a little bit more off the, off uh the recorder here because its basically I don't know of any reason ...

KF: WB: KF: WB:

Okay. that I can think of that it would reflect on uh particularly on you. Um hum, I mean you know, you're the supervisor and you're the Director of Valley Ride and you're supposed to. This was none of your doing.

KF: • WB:

Um Hum.

I mean you know, it should have been, but it was not of your doing as far as the
hiring of Grant.

KF: WB: KF: WB: KF: WB: KF:

Um Hum. as I understand from our conversation, Yeah actually. You know and or that you ... Well. basically did not playa part in it. And 1'1]tell you, the mayor I think, thinks he still works for them in some ways cause there are times when, like when we transferred everything over, that's he was hired by Gary Lyman,

what and maybe this will help you, I don't know, but when we transferred everything over, it was last July that the City Council and our Board agreed to

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2, 2003 Case No.: 2002-055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 47 of 48

make this transfer.

So now we own everything and the mayor said, "So is Grant

going to work for you now?" And I said, Well he's always worked for us." And he seemed kind of confused about that. he gets busy and forgets. And I think sometimes he just kind of,

And he mentioned it a couple of other weeks after

that. "So is Grant going to work for you?" And it's like he, I reminded him again, "He's always worked for us." And, and that that's uhm that's always how it's been so.

WB: KF: WB: KF:

Did I ask you if the mayor was aware of this airport service?

I don't know if he was.
Okay. He never talked to you? He never talked to me about it. I have very I have very few conversations the mayor. with

WB: KF:

Okay. I probably talked to him once every three months. we're doing here. And it's usually about what

WB:

So the only conversations

you've had with anyone about these airport services

that Grant supposedly is providing is with Grant and or Gary. KF: WB; • KF: Right. I think we've discussed that haven't we, Yeah.

Interview Of: Kelli Fairless Conducted By: William M. Buie Date of Interview: January 2,2003 Case No.: 2002~055 Transcribed By: Frances M. Nix Revised By: William M. Buie Page 48 of 48

WB: KF: WB: KF: WB:

pretty well. Yeah. Okay well, I'll stop the recorder. Okay. The time is

11 :41 a.m.

[END OF TAPE - SIDE TWO]