Participants: Adam B. Levine (A.B.L.) Host Andreas M. Antonopolous (A.A.) Co-host Stephan Murph (S.M.) Co-host A.B.L.

.L. : Coming up on todays show, Lets Talk Bitcoin comes to you as recorded live from riday, !ay "# in the hours $efore the conference kickoff. Todays release kicks off our Bitcoin %&"' (an )ose e*travagan+a with new shows and lots of interviews $eing released every weekday. This episode finds the host sitting down for the first time ever in the same room with e*tensive discussion of the new ideas and innovative approaches proposed and suggested at the ,iga-! meetup which took place on Thursday the ".th at the (an )ose Tech !useum. (tay tuned for my interview with /rik 0oorhees, the man who gave himself to Bitcoin, and a really nice guy. Thatll $e out tomorrow, !ay %% with more to follow. There are $ig things in store for Lets Talk Bitcoin, so en1oy the show. A.B.L.: 2i, and welcome to a special episode of Lets Talk Bitcoin. Today, we are reporting to you from (tephanies hotel room, actually at the !arriott at the Bitcoin Conference %&"' in (an )ose, California. (.!.: 3ooohooo4 3ere all in the same room. This is ama+ing. A.B.L.: 5eah, a$solutely. A.A.: 6ever happened $efore. A.B.L.: As usual, 7 am 1oined $y (tephanie !urphy, (.!.: 2ello4 A.B.L.: and Andreas !. Antonopolous. A.A.: 2ello. A.B.L.: And, uh, we 1ust met for the first time a$out, uh, 7 guess it was last night, yesterday. This is the first time weve $een in a room pretty much without more people outnum$ering us than the three of us. This is an incredi$le e*perience and 7 feel incredi$ly $lessed to $e here for this. This is like8the metaphor that keeps getting used is this is the 7nternet in "99% or "9:9, depending on who you want to talk to; A.A.: 5up. A.B.L.: ;$ut that is totally whats happening. Last night we attended the ,iga-! community meetup, $asically. And a$out half the people there were planning on going to the conference today. And, my ,od, it was packed (.!.: 5es, standing room only for <&& people, easily. They really know how to throw a party, too. 7t was very professional, met a lot of really interesting people there and

they had a series of talks setup for us. 3e heard from !ike 2earn, ,oogle engineer, that was really interesting to hear his thoughts on $itcoin. A.B.L.: 7 didnt know that he was a ,oogle engineer. 7d $een watching my friend for =uite some time now and kind of saying, >okay, well, some of that stuff is good, some of that stuff is $ad.? But 7 had no idea he was affiliated with ,oogle. Thats very interesting. A.A.: 5ou know, this is his %&@ pro1ect8 A.B.L.: 7nteresting. A.A.: 7t kind of shows the level of innovation you can get when you let people 1ust focus on things that they are e*cited a$out. And !ikes really e*cited a$out Bitcoin, and it shows. Thats another thing we got from all the speakers yesterday, 7 think, was palpa$le e*citement from the speakers and the audience and 1ust this flow of incredi$le, ground;shaking ideas, history making ideas. 7 heard things 7d never thought a$out, never heard of, a$out Bitcoin. 7 think 7ve said this $efore, my mind is $eing $lown for 9 months, well, its accelerating. And its from Buttercoin talking a$out uni=ue and innovative uses of $itcoin and automated payment systems. (uch as, for e*ample, ,oogle self;driving cars paying tiny fees to overtake other cars on the freeway. /ssentially, making an 2-0 lane that is cost;$ased. 7 dont know if its a good idea, $ut its a really weird and interesting idea. A.B.L.: And its something thats possi$le $ecause you have the a$ility to transact these incredi$ly small values. 3hen 7 heard that idea 7 always think >okay, so this is like taking the toll road and sort of superimposing this, like, social payment system, where theres a value e*change $etween people who want to go fast versus people who want to go slow.? !ay$e you 1ust dont care. (uddenly, driving in your car is $eing su$sidi+ed $y the people who do care a lot. 7 mean, thats an incredi$le idea thats only possi$le with something like this. A.A.: Aeople dont think a$out the fact that todays 2-0 lanes are really indirect. The people who can afford to use the 2-0 lanes for whatever reason, or some of the permit;$ased lanes that e*ist in other states. /ssentially, that money goes $ack into a $ig highway fund and who knows it ever ends up improving the road. But in this environment, its e*actly that. The people who are driving slower would literally perhaps not pay gas for that particular trip $ecause its $eing su$sidi+ed. And that was 1ust one of, say, twenty ground$reaking, history;making ideas a$out 7 heard yesterday at the conference. Another one was !ike 2earn talking a$out $itcoin ena$ling autonomous agents to have their own $ank accounts and operate as autonomous agents. /ssentially, were talking a$out artificial intelligence or autonomous agents that are used to make decision;making on the internet that have their own $ank account and use micropayments to advance a specific goal. 7f you take that idea a $it further, you have the possi$ility of processes competing in an eco;niche online. And if a process is not successful in raising funds in its wallet, it cant afford its hosting, so it goes offline. And thats really an incredi$le idea once you grasp the implications it has. /very two minutes, mind $lown, again.

A.B.L.: 5eah. A.A.: And this is happening again and again in Bitcoin, $ut itBs happening in slow;motion in the forums and it 1ust got condensed in a couple of hours yesterday and 7 cant wait for tomorrow, the conference. A.B.L.: 5eah. (o many $utton up shirts, so many pairs of glasses. !y god, it was the nerdiest room 7ve ever seen, and 7ve $een covering games 1ournalism since %&&C. 7t was a very diverse crowd. -ne of the other things that was really e*citing was there were a lot of people at the meetup who were new to Bitcoin, who were not necessarily attending the conference, were there to learn a$out it. 7 spoke with one gentleman from )apan who was incredi$ly e*cited, and wanted to know what $itcoin was and the free money was. 7 think he must have stum$led into the meetup or something like that and was 1ust so caught up in it. The other thing of course was people wanting to get involved with the pro1ect. There was that engineer who stood up8 (.!.: -h, he asked a =uestion, yeah, >7m a doer not a donator, what can 7 do to contri$uteD? and got an answer from this whole panel. A.B.L.: 5ep. A.A.: 5es, a$solutely. Eoers are very much needed in this environment. (o 7 have one little complaint, $ut it was a $it $alanced. And the one complaint 7 had is that like many early environments in technology, the room was a sausage;fest. And you know e*actly what 7m talking a$out. (.!.: 7 was going to say that, too. A.A.: 3omen were underrepresented. But, on the other hand, hearing this constant refrain of >this is the internet of "99%.? 3ell, it was a$solutely diverse $y comparison $ecause when 7 was on the internet in "99%, it was %C&,&&& academics. There wasnt a woman in sight in my computer science department, 7 can tell you that, or anyone near on it. (.!.: There mightve $een someone pretending to $e a woman. A.A.: Aossi$ly, yes, 7d say, in fact, many of them. But its a much more diverse environment. 7 hope it gets $etter, $ut in a way its already $etter than some of the other technology environments. (.!.: 5eah, thank you for $ring that up. 7 noticed that too, $ecause 7m a woman in the Bitcoin community, and 7 sometimes notice that when 7 go into a room8 A.A.: 7 can vouch that shes not pretending to $e a woman. (.!.: -h my, have you seen something that 7 havent showed youD A.A.: /very$ody 1ust hears your voice, who knows nowadays right, with all that software.

(.!.: 3ell, 7 was looking for you guys last night $ecause we had never met each other, 1ust had seen pictures of each other online since we started working on this pro1ect, and 7 couldnt find you. Theres this sea of men and Adam and 7 were emailing each other during the presentations and 7 said, >7t might $e a little easier for you to pick me out of the crowd. 3hy dont you 1ust look for the person with the purple skirtD? A.B.L.: 3ell, 7 was looking around for wavy hair. 3e had identified three of four possi$le candidates. A.A.: -n the other hand, if you look at the crowd yesterday, what surprised me was the gender diversity wasnt great =uite yet. But the ethnic diversity was tremendous. A.B.L.: Tremendous. A.A.: That is a real point that people need to reali+e. Bitcoin is not the developed nations currency. 7ts going to succeed in America last. 7ts going to succeed everywhere else, where they dont have a world reserve currency that is somewhat sta$le or maintains the illusion of $eing sta$le. And that was represented in the crowd. 7 think the first three or four =uestions were all from people from the 7ndian su$continent, who were interested in applying it. They had some very interesting and provocative =uestions a$out how you apply microtransactions. 2eres the funny thing, when we talk a$out microtransactions, were talking a$out dollars. 3hen theyre talking a$out microtransactions, theyre talking a$out a$out Fupees, i.e., tenths of a penny. Thats a very different perspective. 5ou could see the panel free+e, $ecause they didnt have an answer for how you make an efficient transaction in less than a hundred Fupees. A.B.L.: 2e was fairly com$ative too. 2e asked three or four follow;up =uestions afterwords and really pressed them on the answers. (.!.: They had to clarify what is two hundred Fupees. A.A.: They lacked a perspective of the developed world and thats where Bitcoin succeeds first. Because if its hard to do a dollar transaction with a de$it card, its impossi$le to a Fupee transaction with a credit card, rightD They have much more relative utility or more marginal utility for the currency in microtransactions. (o when people decide to set a certain fee level, they should not $e thinking in dollars. They should try to figure out what the cost of a cup of coffee is in the slums of Bangalore and then figure out what kind of microtransaction that is. A.B.L.: -ne of the other really common nationalities that we saw there was8; (.!.: ArgentinaD A.B.L.: ;the Argentinians. (.!.: There was a panel at one point where there were two people who were C/-s of ma1or companies8 A.B.L.: 7t was the finance panel, yeah.

(.!.: ..that were from Argentina, and they were talking a$out what its like to $uy property there. 5ou have to go and meet with a notary, 7 think. A.A.: 5es, for the escrow service as we do in the G(, $ut with a suitcase of money. A.B.L.: 3ith a suitcase of cash. (.!.: And the fees are incredi$le for that, 7 mean, 1ust a huge amount of fees and so there was one person, 7 cant remem$er8 A.A.: Buencas Conceras. (.!.: 5es, he was saying his friend wanted to $uy an apartment in Argentina. A.A.: Buenos Aires, for a$out a million and a half dollars $ecause $y the way, 1ust $ecause the currencys in the hole doesnt mean the apartments not $loody e*pensive. (.!.: Thats right. 7n Argentina too, they have currency controls, 7 think. The actual market e*change rate for their currency is different than the official e*change rate, so that complicates things even further. A.A.: And no$ody keeps their money in the country, $ecause if you keep it in the country, the government steals it from you. (.!.: 5eah, e*actly. 2ow wonderful would Bitcoin in a situation like thatD Buencas Conceras was saying that his friend wanted to $uy an apartment and asked him to do something where he would hold the escrow ; what did he e*actly ask the friendD A.A.: 2e wanted to front him the Argentinian money versus essentially an 7-G in dollars $ack in their American $ank accounts $ecause in these situation $oth seller and $uyer $oth have their money outside the country usually in a $ank account in the G(. /ssentially, all they need to do is create the necessary 7-Gs temporarily in Argentinian money, or $itcoin. (.!.: 5eah, e*actly. 2e said he wanted nothing to do with that transaction. A.A.. (mart. (.!.: But if it were done it $itcoin, it would pro$a$ly so much easier, and the fees would $e less, so it would cost every$ody who was involved way less money. A.A.: 5eah, and 7 loved the conclusion of that story where he said in the end of that 7 had this image of the actual transaction that went through which was two over;C& year;olds, completely tech;un;savvy people, e*changing HF codes in a room with a notary. This actually happened in Argentina. Argentina is a perfect e*ample of where Bitcoin gets adopted first, $ecause people in Argentina have $een suffering a financial and currency crisis in slow;motion for %& years. A lot of countries are like that. 3e tend to assume that currencies operate like they do in 3estern nations and were the small, temporary e*ception. The vast world knows what a $lack market is $ecause they have to use it on a daily $asis.

(.!.: 3hat the a$out the concept of $eing a$le to attach your 7E to a wallet voluntarily that !ike 2earn was talking a$out, $uilding on top of the e*isting Bitcoin infrastructure, that was really interesting to me. 2e was really careful, 7 thought, to stress, if you want to, so that $asically the pseudonymous nature of Bitcoin could still $e used to anyones advantage who wants to, $ut there could $e more infrastructure or software that interfaces with the Bitcoin network, where you could potentially identify yourself if you want to. A.A.: Fight. A.B.L.: The verifia$le nature of Bitcoin is what the important part is. 7ts a$out ownership and so if you can guarantee that you own, then it doesnt really matter if its pseudonymous or using your real name ; the point is that its accurate. 5ou 1ust have to make that association functionally. (o, yeah, 7 mean, since we started talking a$out the Bitcoin 7E pro1ect that )oe Casio is working on, there have $een several other pro1ects that are $asically in this same vein that have sort of started popping up. Clearly, this is an idea thats getting traction and clearly its something where, you know, we were talking with a potential sponsor of the show who is a E6( guy and, my god, it was $lowing his mind. 2e was like, >wow, we need to attach this to emails $ecause it would functionally eliminate the spam pro$lem $y making it so if some$ody doesnt have any sort of reputation associated with that particular address that theyre claiming as their identity, then 7ll 1ust never see the email. 7f someone wants to get it to me, they can send .&" $itcoins to me and 7ll $e a$le to tell that its not spam $ecause even that small amount of relative value is still much more than someones going to send out with spam.? A.A.: 3hat were seeing at the moment is essentially the reflection of the fact that a lot of things we take for granted in traditional currencies are several different principles mashed together through necessity or constraints in the underlying currency. 3hat do 7 mean $y thatD 7n most security systems you have trust, you have attestation, the a$ility to prove you own something, and then you have identity. 3e dont think of these as separate things $ecause usually, in order to make it practical, all three mash together. 5ou know who 7 am, you know what 7 own, and therefore, you can trust me. 5ou cant know that you can trust without knowing who 7 am. 5ou cant know that 7 own something without knowing who 7 am. 3eve, $y necessity, $rought these three together. The analogy 7 like to think of is, as the 7nternet $roke apart those concepts, where $efore if you were a pu$lisher, you were someone who had access to information, you were someone who had access to writers ,and then you were someone who had a megaphone or printing press and $ought ink $y the $arrel to e*press that opinion. 5ou could not separate the concept of 1ournalist from access to the printing press, access to the halls of power, and a rational voice. 6ow, you can. Anyone has a printing press. 3eve actually separated those and now we can focus on what really matters, which is a rational voice and a smart idea and you can get the other things for free. 3ith currencies, weve mashed together trust, identity, and attestation ; we dont need to. 3ith Bitcoin, you can prove you own something without telling anyone who you are and so gradually were pulling apart these concepts and were a$le to focus on how we make the most efficient transaction on each one of these. 7f you want to prove 1ust trust, and $uild

reputation, you can do it without identity. 7f you want to show your identity without showing any of your $ank details, you can do that. This is really opening up and revealing things that were put together for no reason other than the constraints. AE0/FT7(/!/6T: 7f 7 showed you a we$site where you could easily purchase electronics from the worlds largest distri$utor, with $itcoins at &@ markup, would you think it was too good to $e trueD ,ood news ; its real, and its at $itcoinstore.com. Choose from half a million items, save money over Ama+on and 6ewegg and convert your $itcoins to real;world items. 5ou can even $uy with privacy. All they need is a shipping address. But, dont take my word for it, see for yourself at $itcoinstore.com /6E AE0/FT7(/!/6T A.B.L.: -ne of the other themes thats $een coming up on $oth sides of the issue is that location matters. A.A.: 5es. A.B.L.. -n the one hand, youve got this huge movement from essentially, the third world, places where they have unsta$le currencies. -n the other hand, you have this impending threat of regulatory death, functionally, coming from the Gnited (tates. 3e spoke a$out this on episode :8 (.!.: !mm;hmm. A.B.L.: /rik 0oorhees, in my interview with him this morning, functionally said, >it is a $ad idea to do anything with $itcoin that is a $usiness in the Gnited (tates.? 2e thinks, fundamentally, theyre going to fail. 2es moved his companies to Aanama. (.!.: To Aanama, yeah. 7 was talking with him last night too, that was really interesting to hear. A.B.L.: A$solutely. (.!.: 2e said its 1ust so much easier in every way. rom a $usiness standpoint, there are no ta*es e*cept if he does $usiness within Aanama, and thats pretty miniscule. A.B.L.: Fight. A.A.: 7 think the real issue here is you cant do a small $usiness in the G( with $itcoin. 5ou can do a $ig $usiness in the G( with $itcoin. Because youre a $ig $usiness, you can $uy due process. 7f youre not a $ig $usiness, you cant $uy due process, you cant comply with the regulations, and you will $e stomped. 6ow, the rest of the world doesnt really care. Fegulatory compliance is a first;world pro$lem and 7 say that as I irst3orldAro$lem as its mocked on various sides. 7ts the kind of pro$lem you only worry a$out if no ones shooting at you. A.B.L.: Fight. (.!.: !mm;hmm.

A.A.: Huite honestly, in most of the world, regulation is a matter of whether and how much you can $ri$e different officials to regulate you or to $e compliant. All of this checking $o*es and filling forms is alien $ecause there is no process like that. 7ts not a pro$lem, you can $e much more loosey;goosey with your transaction and thats perfectly fine $ecause nuance and gray areas are how the economies work. 2ere, we have all of this $lack;and;white, we try to $elieve that its actually rule of law when, of course, o$viously, its an illusion. 7ts a trap, its a terri$le trap. Gnless you can $ring the $ig guns to the court to fight for your due process, regulation is 1ust a way of killing small $usiness. (.!.: 5eah, 7 actually have to say 7 was really disappointed with the amount of people who were on the panel last night, who seemed to $e cheering regulation, saying its not only inevita$le $ut its good and itll $e great. A.A.: 3ell, of course it is, for them. They represent the $ig $usiness that can afford to make regulation an ally, not an enemy. (.!.: 7 dont think of those people that were there last night as representing, really, like, $ig $usiness. A.A.: Big enough. A.B.L.: 5eah, 7 mean, $ig is relative when you look at it. 3eve $een talking with e*changes. Jraken, 7 think is what its called and Tradehill, theyre $oth G(;$ased e*changes $ased out of California which is, of course, an insane environment to $ase any sort of $usiness out of. (.!.: Ghh, yeah. A.B.L.: But theyre whole focus, they look at !t. ,o* and say, >these people have done the regulatory side wrong.? A.A.: 5es. A.B.L.: 3hether or not that $e true, it makes it their focus to get the regulatory side right. (o when 7 talk with )ared from Tradehill, his whole focus is on over;compliance, in taking the letter of the law, then following the spirit of the law, and then going to like, %&@ $eyond that8 (.!.: 7n hopes that theyll leave him alone. A.B.L.: /*actly. A.A.: 7ts not that theyll leave him alone, its that when they do attack him, and they will, he will $e $eyond reproach and hell $e a$le to drag it out in court for decades $efore they can shut him down. 3hereas, if you go out and sign a piece of paper from 3ells argo that says youre not a money transmission $usiness, you then get shutdown $y the Eepartment of 2omeland (ecurity and Treasury, which is what happened to !t. ,o*. 7 mean, this is really a matter of not even doing the $asics to protect yourself, literally opening yourself up to $e a victim.

A.B.L.: 3ell, again, in the conversation with /rik 7 $rought that up $ecause 7 was like, >how could they $e doing this, how can they make such $asic mistakesD? 2is point was that, yes, there were $asic mistakes, $ut they were such small errors. This paper was signed three years ago at the time that it was done. The rules have changed, the regulatory environment has changed during that time. 7ts one of those things where if the government goes looking for reasons to mess with you, chances are pretty good theyre going to find them, if 1ust $ecause the rules are constantly changing, and you dont even know what all the rules are anyway. A.A.: 5eah, $ut 7 would also say, is it a surprise that the government is going after thisD 6o. 7s it a surprise that the rules have changedD 6o. 2ave a lot of things changed in the last three yearsD 5es. 3hat hasnt changedD !t. ,o* didnt change their $ank account for three years. They had three years to get this right and so 7 do not attri$ute to malice what can $e e*plained $y incompetence and this particular case, it really is a matter of incompetence, technical incompetence, and regulatory incompetence. Aeter 0essenes covered this well. 2es o$viously $iased $ecause hes suing !t. ,o* at the moment. A.B.L.: 5eah, which is a little funny $ecause he didnt disclose it at the time. 7 was like, so wheres the disclosure that youve got a thing going with them. A.A.: 7 dont think he really needed to disclose it, at least to the four hundred people who were in that room. They were all chuckling a$out it. A.B.L.: 7 guess thats true. A.A.: 2e made some very good points which is that running an e*change is not a$out 1ust $uilding a trade and order matching engine. 5ou need an e*change stack. 5ou need a regulatory stack. 5ou need a compliance stack. 5ou need a finance stack. 5ou need a cash flow stack and, in fact, an anti;money laundering stack and several other things. 2es a$solutely right. The =uestion is, why would these companies go into $usiness without having those things checked out. 7 can understand why youd do it three years ago, $ut have you not $een paying attentionD A.B.L.: And another thing thats happened is weve seen kind of a consolidation, almost, where money has started into some of the companies that were already $ig. Bitpay 1ust received two million dollars in venture. 5ou didnt know thisD A.A.: 7 did not know this. 3hen did this happenD A.B.L.: This happened two days ago. (.!.: 5eah. A.A.: -h, fantastic. A.B.L.: -h, yeah, this happened two days ago, yeah, two days ago and in addition to that, they hired )eff ,ar+ik, 7 $elieveD A.A.: 5es, hes now working for them $ut interestingly enough theyre going to donate most of his time to continue to promote the core development area.

A.B.L.: 7 was wondering a$out that, yeah. A.A.: Thats what they said in the announcement. They said hes $eing hired $y Bitpay and he will $e turning all of his work into the open source. Lets $e honest, 7 think its important to really praise all of the early companies in Bitcoin. A.B.L.: Fight. A.A.: 6ot only for the services they offer directly to customers. As $ad as they are and as crashy as they are at times, were all pioneers in this. But more importantly, almost all of the $usinesses in Bitcoin, the early ones, have contri$uted $ack to the community. Code, intellectual property and various other areas of support, funding other $usinesses, funding developers, and then open sourcing all of that stuff. 7ts really important, especially at this early stage. (.!.: They did get into it $ecause they were e*cited. They were 1ust people who were e*cited a$out Bitcoin and they said, look, 7 need to do something thats going to $uild infrastructure for this. 7 can see why they contri$uted $ack. A.A.: 5eah, and the word amateur is a dou$le;edged sword. 7t means someone who loves the profession and does it out of love. 7t also means someone who is not a professional. Gnfortunately, that $rings a lot of enthusiasm early on and eventually it leads to some pro$lems of scala$ility and maturity. (.!.: 3ell, 7 think thats one reason that were now seeing so many people who are saying sort of, like, >yeah, we need regulation, its good.? 7 think with this influ* of 0C money, theyre getting a lot of pressure. 5ou have to $e professional and part of $eing professional is to play the game and follow all the rules. That means you have to, at least when you talk pu$licly, you have to advocate for all of this regulation and stuff. 7m sure its pressure. Another thing that came up last night was the idea of a $u$$le. (ome$ody, 7 forget who it was, $ut some$ody on the panel said that they thought the $iggest threat to Bitcoin, right now ,is a $u$$le. A.A.: 3hoever said it, everyone agreed, including the audience. (o, 7 think that was a very elegant point. (.!.: But what if were already in a $u$$leD 7 mean, theres so much venture capital coming into Bitcoin;$ased companies. 7 mean, you went to this meetup the other day, Andreas, you talked a$out it on the show, may$e a week ago, $ut you talked a$out it on the show, and you said there were 0Cs all over this. A.A.: 7 know 7 noticed two, may$e three investors who were looking for stuff, and weve seen this again at the show. The room where we had the ,iga-!, you could tell ; well, actually, the easiest way to tell is look around and see whos wearing the pinstripe suit in a sea of $lue 1eans and t;shirts, there are the 0Cs ; and whos got the $eard and the pony tail, there are the coders. (.!.: KLaughingL

A.A.: -k, 7m $eing a $it facetious here, $ut yeah, you could definitely see the $ankers from a mile away, and there were plenty of them. 2eres the issue, a $u$$le is only a $u$$le when it $ursts. A.B.L.: Fight. A.A.: And its only a $u$$le when it can no longer sustain $eing inflated. Lets $e real, this is a ".. $illion dollar incredi$ly useful transactional currency. The internet $u$$le at its height was a ".% trillion dollar $u$$le. Can we go and inflate a lot more without it $urstingD 5es. 3hat we need is less panic, 7 think. A.B.L.: Fight. A.A.: Because what we saw with the M%.& was a premature $urst of a $u$$le that really has a long way to go until it is a via$le economy that reflects the utility of Bitcoin. A.B.L.: Fight. A.A.: There are fundamentals, here. This is a damn useful currency. ar more fundamentals than the pants shop site that had #&&,&&& eye$alls and got a valuation of # $illion dollars during the internet $u$$le. Theres some >there? there. A.B.L.: 7ts a$out moneti+ation too. That was the ultimately the pro$lem with most of the internet $u$$le. 5eah, they had the eye$alls $ut there was no moneti+ation. 3ell, with Bitcoin, thats the whole thing ; the whole thing is a moneti+ation. A.A.: 5es, 7 love the fact that Bitcoin comes pre;moneti+ed. A.B.L.: Fight, e*actly. 5ou know, that has good elements, $ut it also has $ad elements. 3ere talking a$out how with $itcoin, for the first time, if you steal something online, you no longer need to worry a$out how to moneti+e your theft. 7ts not like youre stealing credit card num$ers and then have to sell them at pennies on the dollar. 7n fact, youre getting complete face value. 7ts like, the internet suddenly has all of these $anks. 3herever there are wallet services, wherever there is value $eing stored, suddenly there is a $ank that is screaming, >ro$ me, ro$ me, ro$ me4? A.A.: Fight. 3hy do you ro$ the $anksD Because thats where the money is. 5ou made a very good point 1ust now, 7 think, which is important to understand which is that its not a matter of the fle*i$ility to transfer. 7ts whenever there is theft online, the fencing component means a discount. A.B.L.: A huge discount. A.A.: A huge discount. The more specific the item is, the more of a discount. Thats why the predominant approach to protecting the crown 1ewels is actually misguided on the 7nternet for corporations, $ecause the crown 1ewels are hardest to fence. 3hereas, youre 2F data and social security num$ers are very easy to fence, have the lowest discount of them all. 3ell, now, $itcoin will $e the easiest. 7n fact, its easier than digital money as held in $anks or credit cards. Fight now, the most fencea$le thing on the internet is credit card num$ers. 3ell, $itcoin is it.

A.B.L.: Bitcoin is it. A.A.: 3eve seen that in also not 1ust in terms of stealing $itcoin, $ut also in terms of surreptitiously generating $itcoin $y sticking a mining engine in a game. A.B.L.: Fight. A.A.: 7m sure that if you look at the $otnets out there, a lot of them are mining $itcoin now. And theyre huge, theyre C;"& million machines. A.B.L.: (o, it sort of $egs the =uestion, do we think that thats the future of miningD Eo we think that these large autonomous networks that are essentially controlled $y a couple individuals, you know what 7 meanD 7t doesnt really matter if youre talking a$out a mining pool that has people voluntarily putting in, and then essentially 1ust going on auto;pilot or if youre talking a$out, ultimately, these $otnets. unctionally, they serve the same purpose. Theyre large groups of relatively low;powered computers that are pooling all of their power together so they can achieve this goal, $e it for good or for evil. A.A.: 5eah, 7 think thats a$solutely the end result. 7n fact, 7m looking forward to the day that $oth my fridge, my microwave, and my car are mining while 7m sleeping. 7t follows the same pattern of evolution of the 7nternet where you end up with smaller and smaller and smaller devices $ecoming intelligent and connected. And that means intelligent, connected, and capa$le of mining. (o, yes, your light switch will $e mining. 5es, your car will $e mining. Tiny amounts, $ut it all adds up $ecause theres # $illion people on the planet $ut theres going to $e more individual assets that are intelligent that can mine on $ehalf of those people. 7ts the ultimate decentrali+ation, 7 think. (o, in that ,oogle car we were talking a$out $efore thats paying fees in order to overtake the other cars is also mining as its driving. A.B.L.: KLaughingL (.!.: KLaughingL 3ild. A.A.: 3hy notD 7 mean, we talk a$out electricity generation with hy$rid;electric cars, why not mining tooD Aretty much anything that has computational capa$ility can mine in its idle power. 7n fact, 7 would consider it that any device that you $uild, if its not completely idle and energy;saving, should immediately $e switching its time to mining. 3hy notD A.B.L.: 3hy notD A.A.: That should $e the energy;saver version. 5oure either doing productive work, mining, or turned off. A.B.L.: 5eah. (.!.: 7 like it.

A.B.L.: 7 like that, too. 7 think that again, you know, as we get further into this home automation thing, then thats totally plausi$le. Already with technology that we have now, its going to $e a year or two, may$e, $ut ; A.A.: But the $est part a$out that, if you do start instituting or seeing mining on that scale of distri$ution, then the mining naturally flows to the areas of lowest cost of electricity, which also tend to $e the most environmentally;friendly forms of electricity. A.B.L.: Fight. A.A.: 7t creates an automatic flow into areas where you save energy. (.!.: That goes $ack to the idea ; some people complain that the process of $itcoin mining, the $itcoin network, is >wasting energy.? 7t is not energy;efficient. Actually, no, its performing an incredi$ly useful function. 7ts creating a payment network for the entire world. A.B.L.: 5es. A.A.: And its not 1ust mining, rightD Aeople think that the electricity that is spent mining is 1ust to mint new coins, $ut its not. 7ts also to secure all of the transactions that go into it. (.!.: 6o, those are an au*iliary reward for doing the creation of the network. A.A.: /*actly, the creation of the network is the real function. (o, if you wanted to compare mining to a real world payment network youd have to add all of the cost of armored trucks, all of the cost of printing money all around the world, the metals that go into coins, the electricity into all the payment networks. (.!.: The opportunities lost $ecause you cant do transactions everywhere in the world. A.A.: The fraud prevention networks, the security systems for not getting your social security card stolen, and all of the other stuff. The thing is, we e*ternali+e a lot of these costs, and we hide them as part of doing $usiness. !ost of the payment networks consider anything up to "&@ in fraud loss as part of doing $usiness. A.B.L.: Fight. A.A.: 2ow much of that is accounted for when youre comparing to the electricity costs of miningD K76T/FLGE/L (.!.: )ust to get $ack to the su$1ect of theft for a moment $ecause we were talking a$out it, recently. There was something that came up on the panel last night. They were saying that there have $een a num$er of high;profile hacks where a lot of $itcoins have $een stolen $ut havent $een moved. They were moved some address or whatever, and then they havent $een moved. And some$ody, 7 think it was the guy from Buttercoin8

A.A.: 5es, that was Bennett. (.!.: Bennett, yeah, he $rought up the idea that of may$e there could $e at some point, there could $e kind of a pool of $itcoins that are >clean,? that have never $een used for illicit purposes, and you could spend those if you wanted some$ody to know that the $itcoins youre spending are legit. Theres this other strata of $itcoins which may have $een involved in fraud, or stolen, or used8. A.A.: And are tainted. (.!.: 5eah, so;called tainted $itcoins. A.A.: 5es. (.!.: The =uestion came up of why have these $itcoins that have $een stolen in these high;profile thefts not $een movedD They havent cashed out. 7s it $ecause the crooks are afraid of getting caught $y the e*changes themselves, or is it $ecause theyre 1ust $asically holding them $ecause they think theyre going to $e more valua$le in the futureD 6o$ody knows. A.B.L.: 3ith this pro$lem, 7 think that the solution is again to look at $anking. 3hat do they do in $ank ro$$eriesD 5ou talk a$out an ink $om$, where essentially cashier8 A.A.: Laying low for a while, rightD A.B.L.: 6o, no, no, $ut 7 mean, what do the $anks actually do to actually stop thisD A.A.: -h, they taint the money. A.B.L.: /*actly, they taint the money. And so thats the solution, you 1ust have it registered. 7ts not like its hard to tell if a coin is stolen. (ome$ody reports, >hey, all these coins were stolen.? 7f they use them themselves, theres no reason to do that, $ecause youre saying, >oh, well, these coins 7 still have are tainted and 7 dont want anyone to $e a$le to use them.? (o theres no incentive to do that. (o long as you have that private key from the transaction $efore, it 1ust seems like that registry is something thats going to have to $e $uilt and if it does, then it really disincentives stealing anything $ecause if some$ody reports it you cant use them. -f course, neither can the person who reported it, $ut that doesnt matter anymore. A.A.: 3ell, 7 think its important to e*plain a few of the underlying concepts here for some of the listeners who dont necessarily understand how this works. The $lockchain doesnt hold $itcoin. 7t holds the transaction that e*change $itcoin. 3e talk a$out $itcoin $eing a pseudonymous or a pseudonymous network. /ssentially, the individuals who are attached to addresses are difficult to track $ecause you dont know who has which address and how many addresses they have. ,reat. That doesnt mean the $itcoins themselves are pseudonymous or untracka$le. 7n fact, the e*act opposite ; the $itcoins that traverse through the network are tracka$le from the moment of genesis all the way until they are spent, and spent, and respent, and forever. /very single $itcoin has a uni=ue moment of genesis, a serial num$er, and it follows the transactions all the way through. 6ot the $itcoin

itself, $ut as it moved from transaction to transaction you can essentially create this trail that leads $ack to the origin. (.!.: Thats why ; wasnt there some$ody a while $ack who was trying to collect all the $itcoins from the first fifty $locks or something like thatD A.A.: 5es, indeed. 5eah, and you can. 6ow, the $itcoins themselves8 (.!.: 7f you could find them. 7 $et a lot of those are in like, >oh, 7 lost my password after 7 encrypted my wallet, theyre gone forever.? A.A.: 3e can track $itcoin from generation throughout and so the idea here is that as soon as you have a registry, you could essentially declare $itcoin as stolen. 2eres the thing, you dont need everyone to stop accepting that $itcoin. To Adams point earlier, the $ig appeal of $itcoin is that the discount rate on fencing is low. 3ell, as soon as you take :&@ of the markets and they agree to stop accepting that $itcoin, immediately, the discount on fencing will go through the roof. (uddenly, your $itcoin are only worth %&@ of face value, if theyre tainted. Because you can only spend them say, on, 7 dont know, (ilk Foad or8 A.B.L.: Fight, places where it doesnt matter if theyre stolen, the market wouldve accepted them anyways. A.A.: Completely illicit things, like $uying $anking stock, or drugs, or something really ridiculously illegal like that. (.!.: 7 guess its the sort of the same thing for cash, rightD A.A.: 5eah. (.!.: There are some places that are going to accept cash from anywhere, no =uestions asked. -ther places, if you walk in with a lot of cash, they may have some =uestions, they may want to verify your 7E, get some details on you or whatever. A.B.L.: 7f you walk in with cash covered with $lue ink8 A.A.: 5es, e*actly. 7f its purple fluorescent cash and it looks like its $een through a couple of wash cycles, yeah, its not going to $e easy to give that to anyone. (o, yeah, that function would work very well for Bitcoin, and it was another one of those great insights that evening. A.B.L.: (o do we think that theres a potential for that to $e used for evilD 5ou talk a$out registries for $itcoin and, suddenly, youre into this whole thing where youve got centrali+ed registries. Gltimately, this could 1ust $e a new type of transaction thats made essentially on $ehalf of the coins at the time theyre stolen. A.A.: (o, its a consensus network. (o, as with the 7nternet, its a dou$le;edged sword. The 7nternet could $e the greatest li$erator in the world or the worst totalitarian dystopia weve ever e*perienced. Bitcoin could also do $oth of those things. 7ts a neutral currency and could $e manipulated. 2eres what 7 think would happen. 7f you

did have tracka$ility of $itcoin on that scale, people would really, really invest in $itcoin remi*ers. 7f those remi*ers then take tainted coins, then as long as you had clean coins, you could remi* them into anonymity very easily. A.B.L.: Fight. A.A.: But you would not $e a$le to mi* your tainted coins. Again, its 1ust a matter of getting a suita$le num$er of remi*ers to do that and you lose the face value of the $itcoin thats stolen. (.!.: Those e*ist already, $y the way. 2ave you guys ever seen sites like $itcoinlaundry and, 7 think theres one called +ero coin. A.A.: 5es, they accept any coin, so if they stop taking tainted coin, they could essentially achieve the purpose of preventing stolen money $eing re;circulated while still allowing avoiding essentially surveillance or mass surveillance of the form where every $itcoin is tracked. By the way, if you dont think that thats already happening, since 7 can do at home with my AC on the eight giga$yte $lockchain, 7 can tell you that every single $itcoin that is ever spent in every transaction is cross;correlated and tracked in great detail somewhere in a $ig data center in Gtah $y the 6ational >(torage? Agency. A.B.L.: -ne of the people at the meetup that we 1ust got finished with $efore coming to do this recording, talking with him, hes a derivatives market maker, essentially. Thats what he was saying is that if he was in the C7A, this would a$solutely $e the thing that he would track $ecause right now, if you want look at every single transaction that happens in a given currency you need all kinds of court orders and its $asically impossi$le. A.A.: 5ou dont need any court orders anymore. 6ot since the Aatriot Act, you could look at the $anking records without any court order whatsoever. (.!.: 5eah, thats true. A.B.L.: That is true. A.A.: But, this is much more tracka$le, its very transparent. A.B.L.: That transparency goes $oth ways. A.A.: Look, the Gtah data center has one trillion tera$ytes of storage, A.B.L.: -J. A.A.: And thats $een verified $y a couple of independent whistle;$lowers. Eont worry, every single email, every single we$site, every single phone call, (.!.: Te*t message. A.A.: /very single $itcoin is on there. (.!.: 5eah, $ut 7 mean, to a certain e*tent, who caresD

A.B.L.: 5eah. (.!.: 3hat are they going to do a$out itD A.A.: 3ell, what are they going to do a$out itD /*actly, thats the issue. or me, 7 like to keep a very pu$lic address for my $itcoin and use it to do very a$ove;$oard tracking. 5ou see, thats the flipside of this, and we talked a$out this in the conte*t of not;for;profits, is that $y having a pu$lic ledger you can also generate accounta$ility. (o, eventually, government corrupts this and they start using Bitcoin, and guess whatD 3e can track them too. A.B.L.: Fight. (.!.: Fight. A.A.: The counterpart to surveillance is sousveillance, a rench word that means, >watching from $elow.? 3e are getting closer and closer to a sousveillance society, 1ust as theyre getting closer and closer to a surveillance society. 3ho watches the watchersD The watched. A.B.L.: /very$ody. A.A.: /very$ody ; e*actly, e*actly. And then you can have some consensus a$out really what is an unaccepta$le and evil transaction. (.!.: 7 would say purchasing $om$s for dropping on $rown people overseas is an unaccepta$le use of $itcoin. A.A.: 5es, and 7 think a lot of people would agree with you. (.!.: And G( dollars. A.A.: Fight, e*actly. K7nterludeN!essageL A.B.L.: Lets Talk Bitcoin has some e*citing things coming up on the hori+on, $ut we cant share details with you 1ust yet. To all the listeners, new and old, thank you very much for helping prove that real 1ournalism still has a place in this cra+y world we inha$it. 5our emails, donations, help and support have led to where are now, on the verge of something very powerful. -f course, the show is nothing without an audience and while we appreciate your donations very much, the most important thing is to share the show with friends and family who should ; $ut arent ; going to $e educating themselves on the future of money. 7f youre new Bitcoin and would like to learn more, please visit LetsTalkBitcoin.comNlearn to $e directed to the Bitcoin /ducation Aro1ect, a free series of lectures and classes a$out many of the aspects of Bitcoin and the surrounding topics, created and curated $y Charles 2oskinson. 7 highly recommend this educational resource. 3ere also actively recruiting $oth on and off;air talent for this and other shows. 7f youre interested, please contact adamOletstalk$itcoin.com K/nd 7nterludeN!essageL

A.B.L.: (o, one of the concepts that weve $een kicking around is the idea of >AegCoin.? A.A.: Aeg to dollarD A.B.L.: 5eah, peg to dollar. 5ou cant call it dollar coin. 7 know, 7 know. A.A.: Lets talk a$out it, $ecause 7 can tell you e*actly how thats going to get screwed $eyond $elief. (.!.: 5es4 A.B.L.: 2eres the pitch. The pitch is that the pro$lem with $itcoin is that its difficult to move into and out of, from cryptocurrency to legacy currency. (o, what if you created an Altcoin chain that instead of trying to fi* something a$out Bitcoin, instead, $roke all the things that Bitcoin fi*es and essentially pegs itself to the same issuance as G( dollar. (o, it does a couple of things. -ne, it means that vendors can accept it without having to change their prices $ecause, functionally, its a one; to;one comparison. 7t also means that8 (.!.: Aayments can $e sent anywhere. A.B.L.: 5eah, payments can $e sent anywhere and so it gives that sort of relative >sta$ility? to8 (.!.: And its irreversi$le. A.B.L.: And its irreversi$le, so you still have a lot of those things and most importantly, you can play $etween the two currencies. 5ou can easily move, $ecause its very easy if you want to $uy litecoins with $itcoins, thats a super;duper easy transaction. 7t doesnt re=uire any sort of inC/6 regulations, doesnt re=uire any sort of disclosures, its 1ust crypto;to;crypto. 3hy not make a functionally dollar cryptoD 5ou cant call it that $ecause if you call it dollar, immediately, it attracts the ire of the (ecret (ervice. 7f you had like, a >AegCoin? that was attached to that then you could play it $oth ways. 7f you are uncomforta$le with the volatility of the market, you move to the peg. 5oure potentially losing out or gaining, depending on whats happening. (.!.: A couple of thoughts a$out that. -ne, a peg really re=uires a central authority to enforce it. A.B.L.: But theres already one. Theres already a central authority, A.A.: ed Feserve. A.B.L.: The ederal Feserve, so you 1ust peg it to their revolving reports or you peg it to8 (.!.: But, how are you going to make sure the8ok, so, $asically, so 7 understand8 A.A.: This has $een done $efore. Lets look at the history lesson $efore we try to figure out whether its possi$le or not. Lets look at e*actly how this scenario played out, $ecause its played out several times the past several years. (weden tried to it,

Argentina tried to do it and at some point the British Aound (terling tried to do it. 7t terms of keeping their relative volatility against the G( dollar sta$le. And what happened, the famous phrase that comes from a hedge fund... Gh, 7 dont remem$er who it was, whether it was ,eorge (oros or 3arren Buffett or some$ody like that who said, >Last person out, turn off the lights, $ecause they ar$itrage that national currency into death.? (.!.: !mm;hmm. A.A.: 7f you try to peg a smaller economy to a $igger economy, the volatility will whiplash the smaller economy to shreds. /very single shift in volatility $ecomes an opportunity for ar$itrage and the stronger you try to peg it, the more money you have to put in on the $uy side in order to stop the sell side people from unpegging it. And what happens is, essentially, you create this $eautiful market of free money $ecause youre trying to evade reality, and the reality is that the twelve trillion dollar economy thats the G( wont $udge $ecause its twelve trillion dollars large, and youre trying not to $udge, $ut you dont have the twelve trillion dollars $ehind you. And guess what ; someones going to make a lot of money on that. And its happened again, and again, and again. Anytime someones tried to peg a currency to any currency or any standard, in fact ; the gold fiasco of an ina$ility to grow $eyond the gold standard was an attempt to peg all the currencies to something sta$le and ignore the fact that they had inherent volatility. And, what happensD 5ou ar$itrage the hell $eyond gold and currencies or you ar$itrage the hell $etween dollars and pegs. 5ou can do it and it will fail misera$ly. A.B.L.: -k, $ut let me challenge on that $ecause yeah, youre right with other currencies where you have that sort of latency. But, with a cryptocurrency, its all a$out the algorithms. 5ou $uild it so that it 1ust keeps up, 7 mean, isnt that the thingD A.A.: 5eah, you could do that, $ut there would still $e a discrepancy $etween that and other cryptocurrencies. A.B.L.: (o its the si+e. A.A.: 2eres the pro$lem, you could trade from that peg currency into any other cryptocurrency instantly $ut you could not trade from that peg currency into dollars instantly. That would create a massive im$alance that would give you ar$itrage opportunity of >Aegcoin? against $itcoin and youd make a ton of $itcoin, shorting peg coin. And sure, it would $e remain pegged until no$o$ys trading it $ecause they no longer $elieve that that peg value is what people will pay for it. (.!.: But isnt kind of8this whole thing could $e kind of irrelevant $ecause there have $een people $efore who have talked a$out using Bitcoins properties as a payment network, independent of the e*change rate $etween $itcoins and dollars. (o, like, its a way to send and receive payments. 7ts not necessarily a commodity and sort of decoupling those two things. And that works if you can get $etween $itcoins and dollars fast enough. A.A.: 5ou have to get in and out fast enough.

(.!.: 5es. A.A.: ;inaudi$le; $ut in and out fast enough, yeah. (.!.: Fight. 7 think $Bitpay does a decent 1o$ with that. 7f there were a lot more people who wanted to use that service in that way perhaps, it may overload it $ut then there would $e more opportunities for people to 1ust fill the same niche. Aerhaps, 1ust $itcoin, we dont need a pegged coin, we can 1ust use $itcoin itself for that purpose. A.A.: 7 think the volatility pro$lems of $itcoin are twofold. -ne is the lack of sufficient volume and li=uidity in the market to 1ust $uffer volatility. 7f you have a Titanic;si+ed economy, it doesnt turn on a dime. Thats a $ad thing, $ut its also a good thing $ecause it provides sta$ility. The other reason is $ecause of the deflationary nature, people go in these cycles of hoard, panic, hoard, panic, and that creates volatility. 3e can solve the first one $y adding more li=uidity and volume. 3ere not sure, at least 7m not sure, that we can solve the second one yet. That may lead to all the coins doing a $it $etter if they can solve the deflationary issue, a $it $etter. But, as long as theres friction $etween fiat and cryptocurrencies, that friction will generate volatility, and if you try to pretend that doesnt e*ist, youre going to pay for that, and someones going to make a lot of money making you pay for that. (.!.: The first speaker last night was the C/- of /*pensify. 7 cant remem$er his name. Eo you guys remem$erD A.B.L.: Eavid8 (.!.: 5eah, Eavid8 A.B.L.: 7 cant recall his last name. (.!.: -k, yeah, well, may$e well find out later. 2e was kind of introducing the whole panel thing and he said, >theres a $unch of characters involved in $itcoin. irst, theres these crypto;anarchists who kind of want to li$erate the world, and then theres these idealists, and then theres the currency speculators, and we put them last of all. Theyre the worst of any$ody that every$ody hates them most.? 7 thought that was kind of interesting. A.A.: 5eah. Currency speculators, at least in the naked currency speculation and the institutionali+ed version of that are necessary. Gnfortunately, no one likes the animal that picks on the corpses of other animals. 3e dont like vultures and we dont like hyenas. As necessary as they are, we dont like maggots. 5eah, theyre maggots. Theyre necessary, $ut theyre still maggots. (.!.: KLaughterL Fight. A.B.L.: 3e had a meetup at ,ordon Biersch today at noon and it was supposed to go noon to two. 3e showed up, Crystal and 7, my wife, showed up wondering if anyone was going to $e there. 3ed gotten a$out twenty F(0As and it was really a lot of fun. There were8

(.!.: 5eah, it rocked. 7 had so much fun, 7 talked to almost every$ody there. There were a couple of people 7 wanted to talk to $ut 7 didnt =uite catch them. The conversations were fascinating, 1ust discovering that 7 had a lot in common with people who came there, got so many compliments on the show. 7 guess those were the people who like our show $ecause they were coming to meet up with us, $ut it felt great to know that people were listening and that they wanted to hang out with us. 7 had a lot of fun. A.B.L.: A$solutely. 7 mean, $eyond that for me, the thing was that 7 like to surround myself with people who are smarter than me and my god, the conversations that youre a$le to have at something like this, its great. The level that were talking at is something, you know, like ; 7 have to go on the 7nternet to get this. 7t was a lot of fun and8 A.A.: !uch faster and you get the feed$ack right away, you know. A$solutely, you dont want to $e the smartest person in the room. Being smart is also a $it of a vector, rightD (o, even if the other person was as smart, they were smart at a different angle. A.B.L.: Fight, yeah. (.!.: !mm;hmm. A.A.: And so that really created some tremendous opportunities for getting new ideas in a completely different field from the one youre thinking a$out. 7 have to tell you guys, the first LetsTalkBitoin meetup we did today was a$out a =uarter of the si+e of the meetup 7 went to a couple of weeks ago. 7 think you now know why 7m so e*cited a$out these things. And so, what 7 hope is that this is not 1ust the first of LetsTalkBitcoin meetups, $ut the first of many. Lets keep doing this. A.B.L.: 5eah, a$solutely. 3ere going to have to transition that group from a (an )ose %&"' group 1ust to a generic that can kind of $e wherever. A.A.: 5up. And 7m going to $e organi+ing some more (an )ose meetups as well in the ne*t few weeks. (.!.: Cool, 7ll have to fly in from 6ew 2ampshire. A.B.L.: KLaughterL (.!.: ,et my private 1et, vroom;vroom. A.B.L.: 5eah, vroom;vroom. Alright, well, we have a speakers dinner in a$out si* minutes it looks like, so were going to wrap it up. -nce again, thanks for tuning in to this special episode of LetsTalkBitcoin. (.!.: 5eah, well have more reporting from the conference, too. A.B.L.: -h my god, yeah, youve $een recording every$ody at the meetup. 5ou did two or three interviews. (.!.: 7 did a couple of interviews.

A.B.L.: 5eah. (.!.: 5eah, and 7 know you have $een too, Adam. A.B.L.: Ah, yeah. (.!.: 3ell $e giving you the content. A.B.L.: 5eah, theres no shortage of content to $e had here. ,reat, well, until ne*t time, 7 am Adam. (.!.: 7m (tephanie. A.A.: 7m Andreas. This is Lets Talk Bitcoin. (tephanie: 3oo;hoo4 K-utro !usicL A.B.L.: Thanks for tuning in to episode nine of Lets Talk Bitcoin, whether you liked, loved or hated the show we want to hear what you think. Alease, send all listener feed$ack, comments or =uestions to adamOletstalk$itcoin.com. 7f youre like me and 1ust cant get enough information and perspective on Bitcoin, check out our daily newspaper at thedaily$itcoin.com, where youll find the $est news presenting articles and arguments from all sides of the issue. Thanks to Andreas !. Antonopolous and Er. (tephanie !urphy for providing content for this show. !usic for this episode was provided $y )ared Fu$ens. 5ou can find links to the songs we use and the open;source artists who make them at letstalk$itcoin.comNmusic. Check $ack tomorrow for the first of many $onus content releases. 3ere kicking things off with my interview with /rik 0oorhees, the man who gave himself to Bitcoin and moved to Aanama to facilitate that goal. 3e talk the future, the past, and more. 7 really en1oyed our talk and 7 think you will, too. (tay tuned. K-utro !usicL