Interview with Mike Burke

Farnborough, 16 June 2015, interviewed by Matthew Alcock.

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Matthew Alcock: So it's the 16th of June, 2015 and I'm with Mike Burke
who's... head of... Environmental Studies?
Mike Burke: Yep, subject leader of Environmental Studies and I also teach
Biology at college.
MA: OK, so I'm starting an EPQ and I'm quite interested in ecology,
environmental biology...
MB: Good...
MA: ...conservation, that sort of thing, but I need a title, sort of, an area of
study that I can narrow down on? So I'm, kind of, in the brainstorming stage of
the EPQ so I, I'd like to sort of discuss my ideas with you and see what you'd,
you know, think would be most appropriate. So at the moment - do you know
much about the EPQ at all?
MB: I teach it yeah.
MA: Oh ok that helps then [laughs] So I'm not sure at the moment whether to
go down the artefact route or the dissertation route, but, so some of the ideas I
was thinking of is I could, this got phased out pretty quickly but the sort of
thing I was thinking of is I could, you know, maybe dig a pond or make some
sort of habitat, so that the research would be how to make it, more biodiverse,
how to make it more advantageous for a particular species. But then, I mean
the project's over summer finishing in December, so that's probably not the
best time frame to, for example, dig a pond in...
MB: Yeah, well it depends, er, how busy you are over your summer holidays.
MA: But, so that's sort of habitat construction or restoration somehow; or then
I thought I could do research, on one of the habitats in my area? I live, in Hook,
near Basingstoke - and obviously we've got Fleet Pond, near there, and quite a
few other, you know, Bartley Heath er, all of that sort of thing, I mean, is there
potential to do a sort of surveying of some sort of a habitat near where I am?
MB: Well, er depends what you want to survey really, you could survey plants
or you could survey animals.... we do have equipment that you can borrow, to
do, use quadrats for example? Have you ever used a quadrat before?
MA:Yeah
MB: Yeah, so you could do a transect... You don't do Environmental Studies do
you?
MA: No
MB: No. So do you know what a transect is?
MA: Yeah, so you've got, for example, from the shore of a lake, say, up a hill or
something, you've got a line, and then along there you count how many, the
density of different species as you go along,
MB: Yep, using your quadrats or you can also do this thing called line transect,
which is what's sort of touching the tape measure all the way along, you could
do animal sampling, you need to sort of check the regulations of where you are
as to, where you can do it...
MA: Find out the ownership?
MB: Mmhmm, and theres things you can do like beating trays, where you beat
a branch and look at the inveretebrates that fall off the tree, you can use
sweep nets, which is this net that you bash branches with, of low-lying
vegetation, and then you accumulate all sorts of animals, small invertebrate
animals in your net... you can then monitor... really, yeah it depends where you
are... and what you wanna look for really...

MA: Yeah...
MB: And I know you can get, you can get light traps, I can't remember whether
we've got a light trap or not, not entirely sure whether we have a light trap
buried somewhere, might need you to show a picture of it, but, you can sample
moths using this thing called a light trap?
MA: OK, yeah, so kind of like, moths to a lightbulb?
MB: Yeah!
MA: sort of thing,
MB: Yeah, and it's a little container that they then get trapped in, and then you
can release them afterwards
MA: Oh OK, I mean , is there potential to, sort of, survey a site for ideal
conditions for such-and-such a species, or, or this threatened species of
amphibian...?
MB: Well, yeah...
MA: And then, and then for the dissertation it could be a plan of what to do to
improve the conditions.
MB: Yeah, you could do, yeah, sort of habitat management type stuff - the
problem is then you, is linking what you've found to abiotic data, so abiotic
means non-living, so factors of the environment, and us affecting the, different
populations that you find in different locations...
MA: OK...
MB: And are there other issues at play like, you know, what are humans doing
to affect the area as well
MA:Right...
MB: But that's all dependent on you having enough variety of things to look at,
having the right equipment, having access to the land, make sure you're
allowed to do the sample... generally shouldn't be a problem as long as you put
the creatures back, but you need to check with the landowner about access to
do that sort of thing, they might wonder what you're doing, see you bashing a
tree or something... but...
MA: It's not a very ethical EPQ is it, if I'm jumping all over someone's land
MB: Naahh, well it generally, it just depends where you are, I mean... yeah you
might just wanna let the Surrey Wildlife Trust or whoever know, or Fleet Pond
know, just to pop them an email saying, are you OK for me to do this? 'Cause
they might have an area cordoned off for no access 'cause of ground-nesting
birds or whatever
MA: OK
MB: So you need to check with that beforehand. The more straightforward
thing might be to do just a theory-based thing...
MA: OK
MB: So have some, an idea about, just some human research, you know,
internet-based research-type theory project, where you just pose a hypothesis,
and try and answer the question just by going through online articles for
example, through books...
MA: Mmm, but the there might not be that much of an element of primary
research, or primary sources...
MB: What about primary research to speak, this is primary research isn't it,
speaking to me is primary research. And you can speak to Surrey Wildlife, your
local wildlife trust to get more information, that's still primary research.
Speaking, what you're doing now is primary research.
MA: So the, the idea of an artefact or a, kind of, physical project coming out of
it, is that fairly unlikely?

MB: That really is down to you, you know, I don't know what resources you
have, I don't know what assistance you can get to help you, fulfil your project, I
don't know what skills you have, are you good at building a bird box for
example, do you have the equipment to dig a pond, that I really can't tell, that
is down to you. And your time management, and what, any other resources you
have available to you. So some people, their family, I mean maybe your
family's the same, you know they're very 'keen greens' and they're obsessed
with having all sorts of stuff in their gardens, have all sorts, you know, relatives
who can help them, give them advice... I don't, you know, is that something
that you have at home? Is there...
MA: Not really, I mean, I have, I'm going to Sweden in the summer and my
uncle is a professor in Limnology, at a univeristy there, so that could be quite
handy in terms of that, he's got a pond, well, I'm kind of interested in the more
freshwater, aquatic side of things, and limnology's basically freshwater
ecology...
MB: Right, OK... [reading from online search engine] "the study of inland
waters..." OK
MA: So I mean, he's got a pond in his back garden, for example, that's, you
know, he got it, it was in alright condition when he got his house, and then he
added this oxygenation feature for the water, or whatever, and he knows lots of
projects, but obviously that's in Sweden...
MB: You'd have to do that as part of your holiday
MA: Yeah, yeah exactly, which is slightly limiting. But I may be slightly leaning
towards the aquatic side of things, in that case because obviously I've got the
expertise, this summer I'm doing work experience at Imperial, with a PhD
student doing river restoration...
MB: Is that Nuffield? Is that a Nuffield project?
MA: No I just emailed them, I tried to find a uni research group in my area,
emailed them and got a placement.
MB: Nice, so you're not allowed to base your EPQ on the work...
MA: No, so I can't really lean on that too heavily
MB: Is that what you've been told? You've been told that, have you?
MA: Yeah, I've been told that I can't lean too heavily on him, no, he doesn't
really know much about [the EPQ] so he was like, "Yeah, I can set you up with
all this research I've done", but obviously that's not feasible. But at the same
time, when I'm doing that over the summer, I've got the - I'll be in that
environment where people are talking about that sort of thing, so that'll be a
form of learning about that area
MB: So but yeah you can't just write up your project [based on his work]...
MA: No, absolutely not. And it wouldn't be satisfying either, just to copy him
MB: Presumably he would get you doing some new research, would you be
helping out with something...
MA: Yeah, I mean it's sort of a lot of survey techniques, you know - kick
sampling, and all that sort of thing
MB: That's good!
MA: Which, I can glean some ideas off that maybe... But I mean, for an EPQ
project there's not that much scope for aquatic restoration or anything, is
there?
MB: Well... depends how much detail you go into, people devote their lives to
researching it don't they?
MA: Yeah, exactly, there's... in my village there's a Hampshire and Isle of Wight
Wildlife Trust reserve which has a stretch of the River Whitewater on it, so

potentially I could do some research on the conditions there but then... you
know, I'm not sure what the final outcome would be, what I'd get from it. Would
I be able to.. I don't know, if I could use GIS, say, or here are the conditions in
the river, it's got , whatever, a high pH, I couldn't really work out where that's
coming from, could I? I mean that's what my uncle's masters students are
doing, so maybe that's a bit unlikely...
MB: Well I mean, I think, what I would be inclined to do in your situation is,
maybe your Imperial guy would get you to collect data and test a hypothesis?
Is he going to give you an actual project?
MA: No he's not, I'm just kind of shadowing him as he does his PhD.
MB: Oh as he's doing the PhD, right... so you think you won't have time to get
data for yourself?
MA: I could potentially, but I think this survey site's in Kent or something, so
outside of that week's work experience timeframe I think it would be unlikely
that I'd get enough to write about...
MB: Right... like I said the other thing is to do a completely theory-based
project, so maybe you could pick some habitat somewhere and research the
the threats to it, the mediation techniques, the ways in which... the
conservation techniques, the habitat management techniques which could be
used there? A case study that you could look into? Rather than worrying about
getting all this equipment, and decent locations, and so on...
MA: Yeah, that does sound quite interesting actually, because then you've got
the nature reserve, and I've got quite a few nature reserves near where I am,
and...
MB: Like "The challenges of conserving Fleet Pond..."
MA: Yeah, for example!
MB: Do you volunteer there?
MA: No I don't, I've tried to but I haven't been free and you know, whatever
slots I have during the week I haven't been able to do it - I asked, but it wasn't
possible... But no that sounds interesting, I did some work experience in Year
10 at the Hampshire Biodiversity Information Centre, so that's at the County
Council and they, you know, collate all the environmental information so
potentially I can send a request there and say, "What GIS data do you have for
this area?" - for example, I'm trying to remember what sort of things they hold,
but they can do some quite clever... you know, it's for environmental impact
assessments, sort of thing...
MB: You gotta think, what are you going to do with that data, you gotta
correlate things together, what are you going to link? What hypothesis are you
going to test?
MA: Or even I could do more, sort of, "What would be the impact of a new
development in this area, on nature reserve X?"
MB: Yeah, that would be a good idea, yep
MA: Especially because in my village at the moment, there's a lot of, you
know, they're planning on building 500 houses...
MB: Which village is that then?
MA: Hook!
MB: Oh in Hook...
MA: Yeah, so that's being targeted... Well not really a village anymore, it's
halfway between a village and a town, but like, planners are targeting land all
around... And obviously we've got Bartley Heath just on the other side of Hook
which has got a few rare species... Or the River Whitewater kind of flows
around Hook...

MB: Yeah, and there's also Chobham Common up the M3 as well, it's very
famous... So you could, yeah, just pick a local habitat and look at threats,
future management techniques that would be needed, go out and take
photos...
MA: Yeah, and I can talk to the Wildlife Trust as well, 'cause they'll have a
ranger who's responsible for that site who probably knows a lot..
MB: And there's more primary research you can do, to contribute to your
[project]...
MA: And that's when... I guess you've got experience of GIS?
MB: Not personally, although we talk about it a bit on the Environmental
Studies course... context of, for example on fertilisers - applying fertiliser to
fields, and then you can use GPS data to work out yield, map for yield, specific
locations on your field, and then specific parts of your field that are lacking in
fertiliser, based on the low yield you can then apply more fertiliser to, and the
bits that are growing fine, you can actually apply less fertiliser to, and you can
optimise using your location - based, using your satellite location, you can work
out and create this map for yield for your field and then modify the fertiliser
applications appropriately. But we don't do a huge amount on it....
MA:'Cause if I could somehow, 'cause I know GIS isn't cheap at all, but if I could
somehow get a, I don't know, student version or a temporary version, or a trial
version of it that'll last a month or something, then I could potentially use that
in my project, and then that shows off IT literacy as well. And that's very useful
for looking at that sort of career in the future as, so it'd be useful for that as
well...
MB: Yeah
MA: But, yeah what sounds more interesting at the moment is a case study here is habitat X, what factors may affect it in the future, conservation
strategies, or if a housing estate was built to the north of this nature reserve...
MB: Well yeah, I think an environmental impact assessment...
MA: OK, I mean, I was kind of interested in the more practical, aquatic side of
things - "I am going to restore Habitat A" or "What can I do to restore this
habitat?", but that does sound a bit more tricky in terms of the time frame and
time of year.
MB: Yes, it will be harder work I think, to do something that is practical-based,
to make sure you get the equipment, to get an interesting hypothesis, and you
gotta work out how to identify things, a lot of stuff looks the same, you've
really got to know your habitat, whereas if you do something that's purely
theoretical, you can go out and take some photos as part of your
environmental impact assessment, add that to your work, you can talk about
the different species, why they're important...
MA: Sort of, what role they have in the ecosystem?
MB: Yeah, and the threats, and you can draw on your local knowledge, speak
to local Wildlife Trust people, it would probably easier that way, I think
MA: Yeah, that makes sense...
MB: Yeah, I would have thought... so your heathlands for example, that's a
good example, heathlands are very rare, they're rarer than tropical rainforests,
and the UK is famous for its heaths...
MA: But they're disappearing?
MB: They're disappearing, yeah. But it's weird, isn't it, because heathlands
require human interference to be maintained, because otherwise they just turn
back into forests MA: They get recolonised by birch...

MB: Yep, turn back into woodland, into a forest again.

MA: Or there are, for example, chalk streams that I could look at as well, if I
wanted to go down the aquatic route, because there's the Loddon and the
Itchen which aren't too far away, which I could look at as well...
MB: Yep, again it's the question of what are you going to look at?
MA: Yeah, of course, but some sort of case study, environmental impact
assessment sort of thing does sound more attractive, I might have a look at
that then...
MB: Yep, so pick a habitat that interests you and go and have a look, OK, I
think that could potentially be an easier approach, then yeah, because then I
don't know what resources you'd have access to, it can get rather tricky even
for undergraduates
MA: OK so obviously I can take like a restoration sort of thing or going out and
doing my own complete new survey of a new habitat, that's just not gonna be
feasible over, you know, half a year?
MB: Yeah, you need to factor in your time period, something that you can do
over the internet, you know, by looking up things...
MA: At that suits the more academic nature of the EPQ as well?
MB: Mmm, yeah, it's also interesting for you because you get to learn more
about your local area and it sounds like you know a lot already but, that would
make life easier for you.
MA: It's actually, when I was looking round for work experience a few years
back, I couldn't find any but when I went to the parish council they said, "we
can't do work experience in that sort of field but here's a CD with a, sort of,
state of nature report we did for our parish, have a look at it!" I haven't looked
at it because it was massive, and I was busy whenever that was, but I could
potentially look back at that MB: Oh yeah, they're all online aren't they?
MA: It might say there, "one challenge facing our parish environment in the
next 10 years is blah", and then I can base it on that.
MB: Yeah so youv'e got these, the JNCC's got these Biodiversity Action Plans...
MA: OK [looking at JNCC website on computer] so then you can sort of like...
MB: Prior research...
MA: For a heath this is what you need to be doing to keep it more diverse, OK.
MB: And they're often produce based on specific species, surveys are often
done, so you could look up your own area?
MA: Potentially I can borrow, I mean, bats are quite common where I am
because of the [Basingstoke] canal, the Greywell tunnel and all that, I mean,
potentially I could factor that in as well? 'Cause then I can go out, borrow a bat
detector from someone and go out and do my own primary research?
MB: Yeah!
MA: That's actually... I didn't think of that but that actually sounds more
interesting, because I can go back, analyse the recordings and say, which bat
this is, yeah.
MB: [reading from computer screen] So there's so many online reports, er, for
all these different, certaintly the national nature reserves...
MA: A big pool for, because, they're doing studies on that sort of thing all the
time, so that would be a big pool for my EPQ, potentially.
MB: Yeah, so that would be very useful for you actually.
MA: Yeah, it would actually. And rather than, obviously they have to be really
publicly accessible, as opposed to sometimes, studies from universities, where
you have to get onto these archive websites or whatever, yep... that sound

really good actually.

MB: Held by the local council... Alright?
MA: OK.
MB: But don't overcomplicate things, if you overcomplicate things you won't
get it done alright, so, certaintly I'd say local Wildlife Trusts are a good source
of information, they could take you out on a little tour around, introduce you to
the ranger and go out on a tour, at least have a cup of tea, or...
MA: Yeah exactly, yeah because there's a lot of data around about that sort of
thing and it's... yeah I'm quite excited now actually.
MB: Excellent!
MA: Yeah, thank you very much
MB: You're welcome, OK, well like I say, if you do want any kit, then speak to
me and we'll get it for you, or the biology technicians, ultimately they hold all
the kit, they look after the kit, so they can sign it out to you? If you decide you
do want some equipment, they can sort you out with that.
MA: OK, potentially over the summer?
MB: Yeah yeah, just go and speak to them
MA: OK great!
MB: and they will help you, just come and speak to me again if you need any
more help!
End of recording, 23m 56s