Saray Prana Peace u rN IN CONVERSATION, it iT ah snl oaues of the , ObserverTu 6 {AURA PorRAs The sine wesaw each hr was abt two ens age foe saredgingeais rom Edward Spomen, And ou ete wing a pojt forthe erie Reale dealing wih srellan done ss, Ito STEVE: We were baiting aus tage Ad then coupe of ‘weeks ate Snowden contacted you? Sit made vio calkd How Noto Be Som Packing Didactic Educational [MOV File (2013) which dea with hoo vie inte age of svat [premiered and fur days ater ehe lk hit Ie wa amazing. was seeing Sowden eee. An Then you wee inva 1 Alovof pope would think that hide of apes waa paranoid cif you venga lace that potting or tones een ea ingto disappear visually or ping of he gd ae nora theoretical ena ‘Theyre gusto FS: Able Actually, your ies for hw not tbe seen was cet 2p hat would warm you thee were droves apprenchng ‘Ad the problem was that had no ide ow ol rodace sich thing Bot youslready had a wealth of sates and cierto do something ke thar asin awe cane you hd th vet knowledge enc, having epapped computers thar never went linn of {foe Sood, Fae had gu oar men ecu information a phone I se w WE oye : Atha point wa ling alot with Jacob Appelbaum, who was raving throughou the Middle Easton acts on communkaton cay That ‘as ely sentivefotge-—concringevrything om the yp est. movement othe sation i Toisas we ha to beste eae se ‘wee people wie dn wane oe nid, ‘Bat what lave abou How Natt Be Seman your workin petal ath statis hat you user combinedocutary elements wih fin, wih ‘tremely play storyeling he then suvillanc nd hs les sa Ssck approach evading Som cris Wha the progreson when yo! Iginingtoconcei fap? Bayou knows Thi the se ug HS: Wolo the car fH Not to fe Seon sara wha el soya | toda how eee avou being ded by ones The don eo mover and body hea So thee people would cove tenes witha eee as ‘Sheet and douse hema with water o ing down cebu temperate The paradox, ofcourse, thats ands itered with bight pan monochrome wold be lily ie oa man yea is drone'scompures Ard people mee einghoks underanth hte ses i thedrones le They boughttem along forthe oso, was et portant for them study and to take break Te one sho bce ow about you! Inthcate ofthe at lin, emer weak bout ieymca hepatica teal how be ate as ing ln abo wise Homers in gener anyon lead ha lof oo Tn hon things arid append the projec completly changed P Swoon ancsample of why lve ding wrk isin logue wth the wel rnd eben Healy old never hae Pind Elvard Snowden. Telos my magnon rem ese Binnie encoerig td Ring Soyer obo chan Bh acne at pao ee making and doametng nthe pceese thing nfl ing where dhe toys Ks unceal ad a aime this why here isdama tr won ia sft oes around some ing that obvious ha laf gration pl which Sowden Ba. I Anthem you me Snowden ta oe in aoe oom non Kong iow dit you work om ate tac? the roa poet Pd jason what ha happened with Cheoes calla narrates pathologie he And \dhappen nthe cotet Bu here wae huge diference with Snowden, bcs wd: He had made the design nto cnc bie ny Where et old Il west Tsou hat onvmiting sd. Up at ad asumed he hoped to ean an snonymods source. nasi toa ey sar and ety sky—he koe that he woul Be able to femun snonynoviso he did wo repel dons identity. Whe tsetse peso a flmbin bets esse case eda want hu eense twas dy for ovale be together anyone ed tostopthe eporsing, Bac sonnei sein that a8 pe For peo unerstan biroteaton dds that he would come tein Nhe that hada ig retry Sinema ane id: Whee ects material back othe public. And so Fours, bt hae that yal conten would bea vil oui deer ut don't hink sha’ nil combs on aed some ther very Inport coniutions—beyod CITIZENEOUR [2014 ofcourse, wich set in sel hak net your a ssompens wa Sgring ow how vith this Kn of formation, che way posbanded che reporting 200 ‘hevaytheinfrmaton asst, sored cclted, ected, checked, andso 0. rw neni arf wtholding and daseminaing information and Carel determining the crcumatances, And this was something new ad ‘steel coogi nlaron to ow eke weep by Wikis fr example How id yume up with hat ow did you ake 1 Youre ight tht thre were lt of econ that wee prin my anda is Glens Weleaned- Both Glas ad flowed Wikileaks closely Glenn ad wren aboot Thad lt nwt Jala [Ress And we'd sea woe he ching ha they ha accompli tht were el exieaoeinary pat Indy thee of eis partners poblsh wih mulipc tes meron nes onstzations That becomes mah hander ifs number flee ner ‘ational ews oration ane thse nkrmaton, "We went to multiple organizations ar well was very careful wth the aerial di Tdi want there tobe arepatof what had appeed wath The Guardian where thy pulsed pseword tht ed othe lone of he unreacted Sete Department cables That was ately he flr ofthe journal, who hailed 0 potest a passer, wn thane of Wikieaks ese the NSA [National Secs Agency mares renting ao be deetped on aor byory asi th nes oration’ sndtha oly the ses of docu aru then parla ries sho ‘hare. And hathpos and con. The drawback bathe pring happen sre siowy thera een it about hat and acta sik htc cd more quick But dda’ ave newsroom behind me when Soowen contd, ht bald the ato ship ig though emai ally ndependot—{ have Fecance agreement with many ew organization bu wok oy by try aol dont ‘ith he Wabi Pot [PRISM the cod na forthe NS ert ny Communication dts-colston progr sired working with De pr ‘Germany and with he New York Tne, and Glenn ws working with ‘Gnardon. Bot len an felt ht Stowten had entrusted dual journals: Hedi’ ent Der Spee The York Times. Ando we wen ging rj and overheat sed sen thie goby, pair inthe ano tomer kid of sei deton, Ub Nothat' at astray plication wasn about aesthetics. HSL dse: eel formal decison, at hor forms in aout fora. Atha’ inpoant onthe ee of aes fae, terms cf protecting your suttnomy andthe sutonomy af he work. esa {Scat by American drone teonnalssace an then wo yest ltr publhed eh corresponding NSA document abou those ses with thief documents and ies work onthst opie Ad Spieeh wich showed exact he sao hat tly the ntermation Tk seh esta pctrm hese vk ous sey provide thing though word eben leet pepe thir HS: Wel, oe hing chats clearly prof our techni you yh pn of ew why had ed exo bore re Kone bic ep me lx, Afr published she PRISM sop bout Tris jt ries Tamth Dr ‘woth wl i rakes Th 4 years tr YM howe sre with DA he nation vo il ie you nd Snel uta nforoniony In your y-ohe wal ogi Hove Kore it TZENFOUR does something very effortlessly that sy artists strive to achieve—it infiltrates the circuits of is media. In fat, ts the most influential and efficient litical work of art ofthe twenty-first century so far ito Steyer! uso 00 Taways marvel aout tha take where ou manage fim your Mut ther ar ale your lo eding, wich ae Being expanded by ech gues encryption tengo lesion and wayet keep mar fe i drt fomaton Noonly making pb, deleng or disclose, really Ending ne ort and cca fo ih this st hatha Byes bern detted ss soch tutti wel seb vs for Thaisthe major rent challenge nonlin jour ese bat in geri you ea datas. Tis ars ack the Wik it, where te database ta teoveofinormation, a ouhivetctete a serofarativesn oder 0 ite he data, Ws Ka of tylingean alae he technol nov and aloo he ass ofthe tab aan archive? Ter Mavi te peri thc t abou databases. He Dri Verwoy’s Ma wit «Movie Camera 1929, foasing om thee Best cavieninga cabs of ote thn the cenerawork. Bata Br ofenthugh abou you when thinking though igus —o ee or work nthe men fi conry Expcly if in your cv, the eos Mls the eson wit rove camera and he Soaneam 2nd he eneeypted hard ie he in wits who designe whole infrecar of communication. And shes wes ot ma Verto am Bad ener ln rel Tat ws iethar wath chive, Now if ne ony about nareton but tipo tansiton, boing sesow peor a nd eadng we anc {imag spon sot hanclng tanparsncy 8wel ax opaiy me ‘aly eed Kind of making he egaes vas extend sls Uprtoneay on ofthe unintended onssuences of bgp om US gover: nen watch ist ad incrogted every te Leone he US borders ha Inde me smarter out how oicnrent the ete and eoghened ep. Talend cached the dso tht would no beside 5, Wa rac all he borde agents who provided eet ning for when Stowe’ e-mail arsed my inbox Thomo rar gon aba se chs island how oi sneaing rng about formy upg bow 3 the Whitney [Museum of Amen Artin New York. The che haste tdusammameof-ncer” and evidence of abuses of rverenet powes butt oopenea window ont parle word har operates insert and Wilds ‘cemendow lal powee Tere ia whole car, langage and woview ‘hart por jutabout facts Thane of he ings im working on noe Hs: How des the NSA even doi themslvea? How do they manage Shei tp Crenting arate fom vst amounts of data i challenge forthe NSA they are ingang lions of Jat ots cer dy--2nd they tnt wry tie They me oa andviulzton ols For sane hey ve 2 {ill TREASUREMAP that provier nays ith earn ma Imxeme and ever device connected One ofthe pcs dong forthe ‘Whine wills ecald TREASUREMAR sods ort of ubversve coun {eemaping hin te eal ore of the NSA approach dat colcion“Through the archive, you come to understand that every- HS: Idothe ing sy on, br then thet solo covet id or | things aches game Thee what wepretenisths Dalston Mando i = political reality that we live in and then there are the actual payback. So much nis being processed ake two ‘moves that happen underneath.” —L aura Poitras longer fore ose rel So tingle by ending. Re ‘at oyondo yoda x wht you cise Jon all yc Wsspesae sino eyo urn har qu a Netndelqecdston rye ¥ santo colette which corse violate all kinds of fundamental pin: LPs One she mos dswieting espe of og tht NSA ory chow op is:as ant nd Silesof the rue ofl and probable. These ions ange fom etch ees alee dle moccpyigsimakancosy How do you deny sive co li ar wore abies ike wing meadata art pope forassannton your wn pei’ fc S your spraac ing she archive n your on work ie srange wo me. 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The popcorn, you food pvethem a comfortable che You det have ro worry about them and ov Ine are world, durations ising unc ogo beyond th sorrel sabject hem net Ade duration ably acer wih aire, Brain's perccved very een in shove ro drai, Wal asthe sopcme exam of ely pushing hatin Beutel wy | CIZENFOUR does someting very Hoel ha Pees nr he ccs of mau rea nat, he mont fndeticea olicl work of art ofthe twenty rt cena 0, Pillowing aor of the naz octane of walled plist And fghyou ss independny, you les hisBn commerialyhich Prahscnting och maid of hens ta hein Sao D led fn commercial bse my wrk oc fl within the str ies An hese srl hat Fawn which fencing bigc themes hough che warts of nd fi, happen salen ef wih ore popula cinna So whet Blip ny paces opeskrothranience, ormaking compromises Bb prenal to each popular sda, And lone that. What so hou cinena thar pops em. CITIZENFOUR es wii Bono oy wood Rn out heidi gaia che vate iI hink aloof itis unprecedented became th fl x ie the Ee fins more ke the documentation of work hans work. te work ala sem inthe way al sdthcevet be story, and many oth el be al bl was Bek ing loos sound you, The wrk linia the mak of an expasine and vplex poses tabs poli jr, formation acted it Struc lvl that have no ell nee tp Wal age there were some unprecedented aspects about what went tlowr—ihe magnitude oth daclones, Snowden outing himsl the 5 ‘sasha our stig thes ate lms pata Tewas omplcate to navigate, knew fo instance, righ before we mere tng to beak the Angela Merkel tory hit it wae gong be big Aad, of trend comverpence between eee hat Teel foresee having mpc an {ocumcnting then, an those could nt ore. Doyo kethatin your own wok youmighr erent stuaoasor acts, aodeould bre aneicon he ub down thei? Heel don ia 0,20 Ui har your own appesch io trying plays with ne anda and effec HE: Welson of theming for mein he ee of dealing wi ea fe ow s del witht only, There ia wanda formal expesons hat arti cutona ournalem, Anson f hem are ely cess ike ‘cechacking Baroy conition that, now more han eel eis mich ‘tanger than ay Bion onecoald maine So semebow he fom of eportng LU Was Kind fon do oa the relaonship heen, ty nage le, what Doan so-called en. The thing fener called“My conviction is that, now more than ever, rea lifeis ‘much stranger than any fiction one could imagine. So somehow the forms of reporting have to become crazier and stranger, 00." —Hito Steyerl tetova gree metiphos I hime when walled fee And Th smotonal restos fli wae image Andis abou finding diferent ke the semsation tha the woe spe unde UP Throws ame. Ther sy he Weather ing webs Aonero ths acl ones eather Undegroand— i fanmade weather, ol heehee dierent is pee erode y Tlie Tas descee thatthe hoe sas is the whole pce ne. ne seaeiy ithe Helos ware 7i the guinteseneal apa ithe background, il Ihe sene repeats int i adver aracd MMA ini molligiiy one ania [i fee formless chapels Peter can om, o eee, adi eas, Be water my fen.” The tale imide balt-ppewsrlgym srcrre, wher Hae can play oF hl ecpithey wane. havea lng hey srl keh sos or mat butthars probably aking a machin x Wester cote NETO SPEAK ro yo about wring something hand onthe Snowden or he Winey ctlogse workingon tot om aes especie roa teorsicl ad art pepsi Tava took wa ws happenin in Tkey yur Der Sigel ole dead he nena compraton ofthe NSA with he Tar tle andthe way inwhich allel phone coomaicasons, banal are rite. inthe people whos cell phone communication ans were ed al pola lings rom for wetngarties oe nica on abe phone is was gost seo Tukey has ows sbsal cod whe ccmer he feo of prs and of ech, weve hecho of urveilane THE NA ponds the at for anocer ough the archive, you come wo undead ha evereing i ie chew. 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[ia way we've lot that intimate, ctl iterowne sttionship beeen stand cinema, Of, wh po ose contrary aan a oki ineimae wor, danppoite eeu tcene ery rien Sometime lets dolly ans hink, Wow he proactive a 0 love Sc Thats. rton values arelow, tne poem. Buhow an role ge aey with ing Boing?‘What aboot mag guy in our own work? Wht kindof podction values doyousee UP Ay work has gone fom 16 mlieterto digs mandard defnion Akfniton Buc oneal subse rote of ome bigdiferenc ewer ‘land analog My works machine dive by people daca even HS: Bury shot mow of your workon sll handheld camer no? And you ‘kd montfehe work your frag and Yeren you did italy youl. And this defines your special reason ore people you nthe eatonsip hat Youbuldin order tobe abewo Hho ik tha woul! ately change {tere were more rem ier re ht Ups Ves hae ue ibe case of oth rag and Hons Kong. They were both Aangerus stun, 0 working alone made more sense tke the ks bese iy work, but do' want one che king the sme ra. LP: THE NEXT PROT I'm dong isshe one atthe Whine and Ione now wha stneane et. What the elton een tha ms cote tndthe plc How i pols conten comained ina museum content? How iekifeen rom nove theater? Stink tm oll content, you dn av to mor. Yu cou on roaring orth exo your, You onced. You ane set ed stooge bd expen Hs: Bur yout moot so sure tha tc rf can co nth, HS: The oer quotion nf eourie ene relevant. tink ha ee ‘egotiated ons cneby-cae Unix Andie depend onthe conten that inet place in here and how it connate witha loct tPmexitd abou doing lation sed wrk cae dee’ cM ‘ame conan ong rm aie aking, whe ou cho ‘how tte mintesofooage at ae what ou nol tha esti ou tre im oki forward being iterated fom tht ole the an sl tea inthe rete exerenee—eohand oer some ofthe choi wo shandonnaretivethere wl e einige aden, with ei "uring pinot bow the wrk gue yeh omer mare How did you come up withthe configuration ofthe day a Are Spl 's:There eve video works. 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You've eto in devices That~"Lefio our Ow Devic was actly going ie ofthe show at Ariss Space, An homage co the Pex Shop Boys. nari org soe iu ree tilyou nocd oe hat som. Fewould also bea wondertl ny to describe your work: ee o your i ahink ha ee the conte at 0 his psiloc where year saa pin your to teacher pa eof ceo std end with evel or team vents tres deli ome way wil Nena a stage src Iie poets po ea pnoucoll nee pres fe bokore teste [stores as ier and ania ary sno, wich sal Pour sale sem lie wih the way you conan develop ad ederelop ‘eco —sherss sponta provisional axe your work How do you ‘cic he earch om one poeta she exe, i: Wah November [2004 fr example, conan eis the mata This Ie fl about end wit wer killed in Ketan noe or sever 60 Years do anther pda, beau things change so dara Tnyour cae fs nora cucience that Sowden contacted you. In my cas, was ed wih histo nt thee hada teenage end Andes ‘Wolf who went undespround and joined the women’ army af the PKK [Karsan Werke Pry] around 199, She was evenly extra ncaa tle with Trksn armed forces Ldn ave aything odo tnt snd tok me longime to undenand anything about ths station, Buticameco dene soo my work and alo et ow tp: What are tho unanowered questions you have aon that oF ane pres elng? fi: Welsh ca has nt been lard eta it may never. Bat eink Politely he stastion ile Ayo wroein your aren Der Spiegel The PKK iemow part an Arete coslton again Dak [Ss] more tle, Thow sn ele milan who used ob ile aero have ow bso lemon the he gender equality. They Rt with ee lous courage and il ac death The stuntn Keeps shifting he ine, bot thins finan pects arethe eal changes within part of Kurds oie thetam rowan bas demeceacy and experiments with uno athe mile ‘fan extorclyvinen cv waist Snuning, admirable, and comseaely endangered prj. te Ard yu want to cootnue searching and updating the wok? Hct neha wa otha aoe me ree. The station stl ‘ngsng and changing and Tel have leaned enough you Maybe one daGALERIE BRUNO BISCHOFBERGER reload REOPENING 1 JUNE 2015 a SULTS DAer MENS tee etl: lok Naa) Vaal) TEL +41 44 250 77 77 - BRUNOBISCHOFBERG