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Stevenson.
Q Do you recall the day it is said some Negroes were taken off a freight train at
Paint Rock, Alabama, along in March.
A
A Yes sir.
Q On that day were you up near Stevenson along the line, near the line of the
Southern Railroad?
A Three miles on this side of Stevenson.
Q Was that anywhere near your home?
A Yes sir, it went right by my home.
Q Did you see a freight train along about the middle of the day pass going in the
direction of Paint Rock from Stevenson.
A Yes sir.
Q Where were you when this freight train passed, with reference to the train?
A
Q About how far away were you from the track as the train passed.
A
Forty yards.
On a gon.
Gondola car?
A Yes sir.
Q As the train did you see in that gondola car?
A Yes sir.
Q As the train passed did you see in that gondola car?
A Yes sir.
Q What did you see happen there between the Negroes, among the Negroes and
anybody else in there?
A
I saw one of the girls setting up on the end of the gon fixing to jump off--
MR. LEIBOWITZ:
MR. LEIBOWITZ:
MR. LEIBOWITZ:
GENERAL KNIGHT: Did she look like she was going to jump.
COURT: She was sitting on the side, I believe I will hold him to what she was
actually doing, her position.
Q
Did you see her move any while you saw her?
MR. LEIBOWITZ:
Cook you see over into the gondola or any part of it from where you were?
No sir.
Q Do that girl, the woman you saw seated on the gondola car, did she have her back
toward-- was she on the side of the car next to you or away from you?
A
She had her back facing the caboose and her head facing the engine.
Q What end of the gondola car was she seated on, the end next to the caboose or the
end next to the engine?
A The end next to the caboose?
From cross examination by Hon. Samuel S. Leibowitz
Q I want to ask you took at some pictures, I hand you three pictures and ask if you
recognize those (handing pictures to witness).
A Yes sir.
Q Are those pictures a true representation of the house and barn.
A Yes sir.
MR. LEIBOWITZ:
Q This picture I show you is a picture of your house and the barn as you look square
at it from the other side of the railroad track, across the railroad track looking square
at the house.
A Yes sir.
Q This picture is looking straight at the house? Did you ever take pictures yourself?
A Yes sir.
COURT: Is that a correct picture?
A Yes sir.
*
Now just where were you at the time this train passed.
No sir.
Show with your finger where you started-- had you been in the house before this?
Q What yard?
A
A Yes sir, you see this grind stone there (indicating), straight in front of it.
Q There is the grind stone you say you were just right in front of that going toward
the barn?
A Yes sir.
Q And your face was in the general direction of Paint Rock?
A Yes sir.
Q The train was passing at that time?
A Yes sir.
Q About how many minutes had the train been passing while you were in that
position?
A
A About a couple.
Q The fact that a freight train passed, that meant nothing to you, just an ordinary
every day occurrence; I mean when you were going toward the barn you were not
paying any attention at that time to the train?
A
A Yes sir.
Q How many cars would you say had passed you as you stood there in front of the
grind stone looking down toward Paint Rock?
A
How many?
Fifteen or twenty?
Q You had been standing there two minutes watching them pass by?
A Yes sir.
Q You are sure about that?
GENERAL KNIGHT: He told you he wasn't sure.
Q
(no answer)
Q The train was going out thirty or thirty five miles an hour, forty, something like
that?
A
A Yes sir.
Q
How many feet from the first rail were you standing.
Forty yards?
A Yes sir.
Q This barn here (indicating) sets on the same line with the little barn, the front of
this barn is on the same line with the front of that little barn?
A Yes sir.
Q If I understand you correctly, this building on the left, and which looks bigger, the
front of that is on the same line with the front of the little one, and you were you say
one hundred and twenty feet in from the first rail of that road, that is what you said?
A Yes sir.
Q The minute any car of that train passed by a point opposite that barn you lose
sight of it don't you, the barn shuts it off.
A Yes.
Q The barn shuts it off?
A Yes sir.
Q You can't see around the barn?
A You can go through the barn and see around.
Q You were not in the barn at the time, you were standing one hundred and twenty
feet from the track and I asked you if the minute a car passes that barn your view is
immediately cut off.
A Yes sir.
Q How many feet is it from where you were standing looking toward the barn, how
many feet is that from that point to the edge of that barn, let me show you (indicating).
GENERAL KNIGHT: He didn't say he was looking toward the barn.
MR. LEIBOWITZ:
GENERAL KNIGHT: He said he was going toward the barn, which meant he was
going in the direction of Paint Rock.
Q You were looking in the general direction of where the barn was?
A Yes sir.
COURT: He said he was looking in the general direction of where the barn was.
Q
From where you were standing how many feet is it to the corner of that barn
Q Let me make that plain--suppose we take Mr. Bailey he represents you, and your
barn would be somewhere off here, along off here (indicating), the train is going in
this direction (indicating); what I am trying to get at is about how many feet, give us
your best judgment is it from where you are standing as represented by Mr. Bailey
over to where the corner of this barn is, about how many feet?
A
Q About how many feet were you from the barn itself, you were standing there near
the grindstone, how many feet away from the barn itself were you, about how many
paces, give us some idea; how many feet is it from where you were standing at the
grind stone to the barn?
A
I don't know.
Show us in the room, about as far as from here to that wall (indicating) or further?
A About as far as from here to that door yonder, maybe not as far (indicating).
Q Would you say about half way to that door?
A
No sir.
Q The railroad runs along there where Attorney General Knight is sitting
(indicating) in that direction and you are facing the barn?
A Yes sir.
Q The train was coming along there at about twenty five or thirty miles an hour?
A Twenty five miles an hour
Q What I am getting at is this: Your view, your line of vision, with reference to the
car you told the jury about and which you claim a woman was on and you saw
somebody pull her back and knock her down, that car could not have come into your
view until it was just about passing the corner of that barn, isn't that so?
GENERAL KNIGHT: Which barn.
MR. LEIBOWITZ:
No sir.
A Yes sir.
Q You are standing looking that way (indicating) about you say about thirty feet?
COURT: Forty.
Q You are looking toward the corner of that barn, what I am asking you is this, as
you look in that direction isn't it a fact that the back end of that car you spoke of was
almost at the corner of that barn when you first saw it looking in the direction in
which you have testified, isn't that so.
GENERAL KNIGHT: We object to that question.
COURT: Overrule the objection.
Q You may answer that, isn't that so.
A No sir, when the train got there we turned around me and this fellow with me and
looked at the train before we went to the barn.
Q
A Yes sir.
Q
Straight at it?
A Yes sir.
Q
Just standing there looking at the engine and the cars passing by?
A Yes sir.
Q You were ot expecting to see anything in particular, you weren't looking for
anything?
A
No sir.
Q Even looking at it from where you were standing with the train going from twenty
five to thirty miles an hour.
I said how far the barn was, it wasn't hardly as far as from here to the door.
Just one?
Q All together?
A Yes sir.
Q That isn't what you said in the trial at Scottsboro, that isn't what you told Judge
Hawkins and the jury down there?
MR. WRIGHT: He is entitled to see his testimony.
Q I am reading from page 44 of the Haywood Patterson record, you were asked this
question: "Q. As it passed you all you saw was one colored man and one white boy
on it?" "Yes sir." That is what you said at Scottsboro?
A
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Will it be conceded that the official record of the trial that I have
read is correct; that the official record of the trial before Judge Hawkins and the jury
at Scottsboro shows that is exactly what he was asked and that is what he said. Have I
read it correctly.
MR. BAILEY: You read that part of it correctly.
Q
Does Mr. Adams live further down the track than you?
Q You know the gentleman, Mr. Adams, that preceded you on the witness stand?
A Yes sir.
Q
Do you know where he was that day, was that place pointed out to you?
No sir.
Q Do you know the place where he was, that was further down the track than where
you were?
A
Q I am reading from Page 43, will you please pay attention to this: Reading from
the official minutes of the Scottsboro trial of the Scottsboro trial. "Q. Where were you
standing when the train passed by?" "A. Standing at the wood pile." Did you say that?
A
Q That is much further back than the grind stone shown on this picture, from the
railroad (indicating) You say you were there (indicating)?
A The wood pile is there (indicating).
Q That is further back from the railroad grind stone isn't it?
A
Q How many feet is the wood pile back further than the grind stone, about twenty
feet?
A
Q You testified here you were forty yards from the railroad didn't you, that is what
you said several times in answer to my question.
A
(no answer)
Q You said one hundred yards from the track, that is what you swore two years ago
instead of forty yards?
COURT: Did you state that at Scottsboro
A
I won't say, it has been so far back; we measured it and it was forty yards.
Not two girls, just saw one girl you spoke about, that is right, that is all you saw?
Q You swear here you saw only one girl, were you telling the truth before Judge
Hawkins and the jury at Scottsboro?
COURT: Asking him if he made that statement.
No sir, dress.
No sir.
Q Will you please tell the jury why you told Judge Hawkins and the jury at
Scottsboro
MR. WRIGHT: We object.
Q Can you reconcile your statement at Scottsboro that you saw a white boy on the
train with your statement now you didn't see a white boy on the car, can you match
those two answers.
MR. BAILEY: We object to arguing with the witness.
(No ruling)
Q
Can you?
How is that.
Q Can you match up those two answers and explain them, you said down at
Scottsboro, two years ago you saw a white boy on this train and you say here now,
you tell these men, you didn't see a white boy on that car?
A
(No answer)
MR. LEIBOWITZ: