Advices to those who want to buy a gramophone

First rule: Avoid junk dealers, unless you know exactly what you buy. They do not know anything about what they sell and have no qualms... if they can gouge you, they will!

Gramophone or Phonograph? Right vocabulary please!

The American inventor Thomas Edison patented the first phonograph on 19 December 1877. His device can record sounds through a pen consisting of a removable needle attached to a mica diaphragm. This pen writes sounds on a cylinder of tin (wax thereafter, thus improving the quality of the recording). Gramophone which was invented around the same time by German inventor Emile Berliner has three elements at least: a turntable on which is deposited on disk. The turntable is rotated by a crank and later by a spring motor. An arm having at one end of a sound box (reproducer), itself consists of a needle, similar to a sewing needle, and a diaphragm, which can rotate and track the movement of the head on the disk, and an amplification device, usually conical. The most common of these devices is a brass or decorated trumpet (horn). Since 1910, appeared the portable gramophones. The sound amplification is provided by a conical cavity, inside the box, whose mouth is located between the dashboard and lid. The phonograph engrave and read cylinders. It is the ancestor of the gramophone. The gramophone reads discs. It has evolved to this day as turntables (electric for 45 rpm and 33 rpm), then to electronic boards and then finally the last little CD player laser. To name a gramophone, "phonograph" or "turntable" is the constant error made by non-experts and especially the junk dealers who sell (very expensive) these antique machines as any objects and hiding themselves behind the sentence: "I do not know anything about ... but I know that it's rare antiques

The best-known brands

The best-known brand in the world is HMV or His Master's Voice, in french speaking countries "La Voix de son Matre". This company later merged with Columbia (USA) circa 1940. Other brands are also well known: Decca (UK) Victor (USA), Paillard, Thorens, Phrynis (Switzerland), Odeon (Germany), Colibri (Belgium). Some smaller brands have also been popular brands such as Alba, Triumphon (Great Britain) etc.

The horn gramophones and the portables

The first gramophones appeared on the market at the beginning of the century were horn gramophones. They had a little the form of phonograph their direct ancestor. Only circa the1910s and especially during the first World War came the first portable gramophone (trenches gramophones). And after WWI, appeared those that we know to this day from 1920 to 1955. They were called picnic gramophones that the rise of the automobile and family outings on Sundays has helped greatly. We could distinguish between picnic gramophones (like a briefcase) and travel gramophones like a camera of this time. Into homes, there were big decorated horn gramophones (very beautiful) and cabinet gramophones (often with a doors hidden cabinet to store records) The phonograph became a museum and collector piece. But we have to give credit to Edison, the inventor, because its principle of reproduction (recording) of the human voice has subsequently changing in tape recorders, dictating machines and modern microchip tape recorders today.

False (fake) gramophones. How to recognize them?

How not to be gouged when wanting to buy a genuine antique gramophone? Here's an edifying text of Isidore Ledoux - http://tsf36.over-blog.com/article-pour-en-finir-avec-les-faux-nographes-59789940.html For the benefit of my readers who are not necessarily experts in phonographs (sorry, here our friend Isidore errs by confusing Phonographs and gramophones, but he is forgiven - Editor's note), here are the minor details, almost imperceptible, which is recognized (after many studies and years of practice) a fake gramophone (or crapophone) made recently by Indians or Pakistanis whose work underpaid in these countries.

1.

The hexagonal or round box is a typical of made in India fake gramophone. No real manufacturer of phonographs ever made such ridiculous boxes. It is common white wood smeared with a thick paint brush and cannot be confused with the beautiful French or British polish and decorations of antique phonographs. The inside of the box is topped with black paint to hide the white wood.

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The horn, coarse style, is very bright brass plate. The original horns are always painted metal of various colors, often in matching tones with golden threads.

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The stem is coarse and rough cast, while the former were generally polished and nickel plated. Note the screws with their heads in chrome plated steel! The horn elbow is a sharp angle (easier to do) while the real antiques horn elbows are completely original curves. The arm is an arm S-shaped recovered from an old portable gramophone. Note its attachment to the stem using a threaded rod, forming a deplorable joint that often gets stuck! The turntable also recovered a suitcase phonograph (portable gramophone), has a slanted edge when it should be straight. More, it is often turning wrong because the central hole does not always correspond to the diameter or motor shaft profile. The sound box (reproducer), despite the inclusion His Master's Voice, is a recent fabrication, impossible to dismantle in case of malfunction. The crank, brand new, is too long, not allowing an ergonomic winding!

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The decal with the HMV dog Nipper is a poor reproduction (note the coarse pattern) of the famous logo that does not appeared elsewhere on the horn phonographs of the trademark.

10. The inside mechanism, also comes from a portable gramophone cannibalized. It can work fairly well for some time, or not work more
than a week. Anyway, there is no guarantee!

In other words, we recognize a fake gramophone a mile-graphic, even in fog! Only a patsy can be gouged. If you really want to purchase a device like this, (quite knowingly) I cannot dissuade you. You can find one in all the flea markets for 50 . Do not put a rupee more, because these devices have no value to collectors and serious amateur does not redeem you if you want to get rid of it someday. A true vintage gramophone in working with all its original parts is trading much more expensive (at least ten times more) ... when you have the chance to find one! But that's another story ..." As a complement of this enlightening text, I would add that it is essential to be wary of junk dealers that you try to pass this "machine" for an antique gramophone. Right now, some of the dirt can be found in sale on Ebay for $ 300 or 300 Euros and more junk dealers talk, their quackery is often a carrier vehicle to play the honest people (they have no customers, but only patsies). Buy a gramophone only to collectors and specialty stores. I included some places where you can buy at the end of this article. On Ebay and other shopping sites, as well as flea markets, these schemers abound. If you are in doubt, go to my site:

http://www.portable-gramophone.com/contact.ws
Contact me. And after I have answered, I will ask you photos and the price requested.

The portable gramophones

For portables it is quite otherwise.

1.

It is very difficult or impossible to make copies of a portable gramophone, because the vintage material (rexine, chromium, reproducers, engine, turntable ... are very expensive and to mount one that is not recognizable to the naked eye as a false, as there are genuine on the market would be inconceivable.

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Moreover, the price would be more prohibitive for a fake one than a true one! What to watch first of all is that the model parts are mounted from another model. In this case, you must know what you're really buying by looking for model documentation on the Internet and specialized sites, I would give you some addresses at the end of this article:

The sound box (reproducer) is often the replaced part. When the original part is broken, as very fragile, especially the owners and the antique shops and more the junk dealers supposedly antique dealers replace this part with one of another model. I even saw a nice laptop with a poor Indian or Pakistani manufactured sound box for sale at very a prohibitive price. This action is a pure scam. Warning! a. The second part that is replaced by another coming from a wreck for example, is the engine. Usually, when an engine is broken, it can be easily restored by specialists. These parts are solid and should live hundreds of years. Each manufacturer has manufactured its very specific engine models (HMV 271B or Garrard No. 50 ...) for example. Again by buying a portable gramophone, check the documentation and watch which engine is present inside. The other parts that are often replaced are the crank, screws, metal parts, brackets ...etc. A true restoration must be made by a specialist using the same original spare parts that were mounted on the original machine in the manufactory! And that, junk dealers who (supposedly) "know nothing ..." do not care desperately and will try to put their "object" at a higher price in the basket of a patsy.

b. c.

Specialty shops, hobbyists, collectors, experts versus Junk dealers ... the big difference
Again, before to buy a gramophone to a junk dealer, check with a specialist. The best way to avoid getting ripped off and should become a rule: NEVER BUY A GRAMOPHONE FROM A JUNK DEALER! (Definition of junk dealer: selling anything, clocks, pictures, piece of metal, books etc .... And incidentally a rotten gramophone overvalued ...) There are enough specialists, collectors, and individuals who sell honestly!

DECCA SALON 110

COLUMBIA 202

2 very nice portable gramophones of my collection (Cost: purchased around 200 )

The cost ?
In this area, prices are always based on supply and demand. However, we usually did discern some clues. For an authentic horn gramophone recognized as such by a specialist, negotiation may be in the range of 200 Euros to 1500 Euros, depending on the brand, rarity and condition. A specialist should help you determine one price for one gramophone. However, there are rare machines that trade above. And here, you have to be appraised. (See below specialists who can determine a real cost)

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For a portable gramophone recognized as such by a specialist as totally authentic in its components, restored or not, the negotiation can be done in a range of 1 Euros (wreck) to 400 Euros (for a good one revised and clean), and always according to its brand, its rarity and condition. A specialist should help you determine one real cost for one gramophone. However, there are rare machines that could be traded at high cost. And also here, you have to be appraised. (See below specialists who can determine a real cost)

Where to find? With whom to buy?

Here's where to buy from the experts. 1. Ebay (search for members below) a. b. 2. Atomick-mac (Peter Mack, UK) Los Pelicanos (Terry Culdicutt, UK)

Shopping on site, or shops a. b. c. d. e. f. g. http://www.gramophones.uk.com/ (Howard Hope) - sales and restoration (UK) http://www.fonograf.com/ (Ken Priestley) - Sales, parts and restoration (UK) http://www.chrisbakergramophones.co.uk/ (Christopher Baker) - Sales and restoration (UK) http://www.collection-frioud.ch/ (Pascal Frioud) - Collector, advices (Switzerland) http://www.gramophones.info/ (Ian Calderbank) - Sales, consulting, parts (UK) http://www.phono.org/steger.html (Marie-Claude Steger) - Sales, restoration (France) http://www.talking-shellac.com/ (Dave Cooper) Collector, advices (UK)

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http://www.portable-gramophone.com/ (Christian Fonck) Collector, advices (Switzerland) See also the links on these sites to other serious sites.

In conclusion: To buy a gramophone, to restore it or to purchase parts, it is absolutely necessary to know the specialists worldwide. I have
mentioned in some of the more serious here, but there are others. Unfortunately, they do know not everything and cannot do everything. So check out their website, contact them, ask them questions and see the links on their site to contact other specialists. They will redirect you if necessary to other serious people. If you're not an expert, forget flea markets and junk dealers. These people sell everything to make money, in front of a non-expert they often behave in crook. Let the experts to approach them (and sometimes to catch them!).

Some examples found on Ebay

Bad cond. expensive Nice antique, nice price

Nice antique, nice price

Fake and dirty, very expensive