A Dogs Trip to the Chocolate Shop - David Lynch

By: Chris Attwood and Robert Roth

David Lynch is an acclaimed and widely recogni ed writer!director as well as television prod"cer# photographer# cartoonist# composer# and graphic artist$ %ore than any other artho"se &ilmma'er o& his era# he has en(oyed considerable mass acceptance and has helped to rede&ine commercial tastes# creating a style so visionary and deeply personal that the phrase )Lynchian) has been coined to describe it$ David has become renowned &or his wor' both in &ilm and television$ *rom his &irst &eat"re &ilm# +raserhead# which became a c"lt classic# David went on to ma'e many &ilms which garnered both critical and p"blic acclaim$ ,e has been nominated twice &or Academy Awards as Best Director# &irst &or The +lephant %an# and later &or Bl"e -elvet$ ,is &ilm .ild at ,eart received the coveted /alme d0r at Cannes in 1223 and he was awarded the Cannes *estival Award &or Best Director in 4331 &or %"lholland Drive$ Li'ewise# his television series Twin /ea's was a c"lt"ral phenomenon and res"lted in his appearance on the cover o& Time maga ine$ 5n recent years# Davids p"blic appearances have &oc"sed on his inner (o"rney as he has appeared n"mero"s times to s"pport the programs &or ed"cation and world peace o&&ered by ,is ,oliness %aharishi %ahesh 6ogi# who bro"ght Transcendental %editation to the .est$ As one o& Davids close &riends# this interview is cond"cted by Robert Roth# Director o& %edia Relations &or the 5nstit"te o& Science# Technology and /"blic /olicy and a"thor o& T% - Transcendental %editation : A 7ew 5ntrod"ction to %aharishi8s +asy# +&&ective and Scienti&ically /roven Techni9"e &or /romoting Better ,ealth# :n&olding

6o"r Creative /otential# and Creating /eace in the .orld$ Robert Roth: David# yo" have been called a ;pop s"rrealist master and ;the renaissance man o& modern American &ilmma'ing$ 0n the other hand# Roger +bert has said# There is something inside o& me that resists the &ilms o& David Lynch$ 6o"r &ilms clearly evo'e a wide range o& responses$ .hat is the passion in yo"r li&e which has given rise to the "ni9"e and "n"s"al wor' yo" have created< David Lynch: 5ts di&&ic"lt to answer that 9"estion$ 5 started o"t ("st as a reg"lar person$ 5 li'ed to paint and 5 li'ed to draw$ 5 grew "p in the 7orthwest and 5 sort o& tho"ght# wrongly# that when yo" got to be an ad"lt# yo" stopped painting and drawing and did something more serio"s$ 5n the ninth grade# my &amily moved to Ale=andria# -irginia$ 0n the &ront lawn# one night# o& my girl&riends ho"se# 5 met a g"y named Toby >eeler$ As we were tal'ing# he said his &ather was a painter$ 5 tho"ght maybe he might have been a ho"se painter# b"t &"rther tal'ing got me aro"nd to the &act that he was a &ine artist$ This conversation changed my li&e$ 5 had been interested in science somewhat# and 5 s"ddenly 'new that 5 wanted to be a painter$ 5 started o"t in painting# and the thing is# li'e everybody 'nows# we all have a voice and its ("st a 9"estion o& wor'ing to bring it o"t$ The more yo" wor'# the more it comes o"t$ 5ts not something# 5 dont thin'# that can really be ta"ght$ 5t ("st comes o"t# and yo" want yo"r own voice to come o"t# and in a 'ind o& &reedom$ 5 l"c'ed into &ilmma'ing really$ 5 made a moving painting when 5 was at the /ennsylvania Academy o& the *ine Arts$ A g"y saw this and commissioned me to ma'e another# and my camera was bro'en# so 5 made a live action and animation combo# which he said he wo"ld li'e$ That led me to get a grant &rom the American *ilm 5nstit"te# so in &ilmma'ing# 5 came in thro"gh painting# 5 ("st got green lights and 5 didnt really 'now anything$ 5 really believe that by doing# things come o"t$ 6o" ("st have to be tr"e to yo"rsel& and 'eep that voice going$ 5ts li'e that$ Then yo" reali e# very 9"ic'ly# that not everybody loves what yo" do$ The doing sho"ld be en(oyable$ 0ne o& the things that yo" can test# is that yo" wo"ld do it whether yo" got paid or not$ 5ts ("st &antastically

en(oyable$ .hen a thing is &inished and yo" release it into the world# yo" never 'now whats going to happen$ 5& yo"?@Ave en(oyed the doing and yo" get bad reviews# yo" can still live with it$ 5& yo" sell o"t and yo" get bad reviews# it?@As very# very# very to"gh$ Robert Roth: .hen yo" sent o"t %"lholland Drive# when yo" sent o"t The +lephant %an# yo" had no indication what the response was going to be< 5t was completely sending it o&& into the "n'nown< David Lynch: 6o" have some indication &rom the n"mber o& people that have seen it be&ore yo" act"ally do a release# b"t that can be misleading$ There have been stories o& &ilms that have gotten great previews and then go on to be h"ge &ail"res# so yo" never really 'now how people will ta'e to something$ Robert Roth: 6o" tal'ed abo"t yo"r &riend whose &ather was not a ho"se painter# and these di&&erent things$ Co"ld yo" isolate speci&ically how yo" discovered the personal passions which gave rise to yo"r masterpieces# or was is ("st starting and doing< David Lynch: 5ts what yo" love to do$ Sometimes# 5 'now there are people o"t there who love ma'ing &ilms or love ma'ing paintings# b"t li'e they say# they cant get accepted$ They ("st dont have a gallery dealer who li'es their wor' or they havent gotten a green light into &ilm companies$ Thats a to"gh road$ 5& yo" love what yo"re doing# yo"re going to 'eep on doing it anyway$ 5 say 5ve been very l"c'y$ Along the way# there are people who help "s$ 5ve had plenty o& those people in my li&e whove helped me go to the ne=t step# b"t yo" get that help beca"se yo"ve done something$ 5t goes li'e that$ Robert Roth: 6o"r l"c'# good &ort"ne# that really gets driven by yo"r passion# yo"r persistence and yo"r conviction to ("st do and then yo" have to have the hope or the conviction that good things will come yo"r way< David Lynch: +=actly$ 6o" have hope# b"t yo" love the doing so m"ch# yo"re constantly wor'ing$ Robert Roth: 0ne reviewer has said# B%ore than any other art ho"se &ilmma'er o& his era# David Lynch has en(oyed considerable# mass acceptance# and has helped to rede&ine commercial tastes$C David# how have yo" been able to remain tr"e to yo"rsel& and yo"r own passions# and yet still create wor's which appeal to a mass a"dience<

David Lynch: Theres no way to answer that$ 5n the world o& &ilm# more and more# a director is Dthis is spea'ing very generallyE a hired hand$ A lot o& directors dont have &inal c"t on their &ilms# and this to me is an abs"rdity$ Robert Roth: They dont have &inal c"t on their &ilms< David Lynch: This is the way it is$ %any o& the decisions &or &inal &ilm are made by committee# and 5m tal'ing generally$ 5ts not always the case# b"t its dri&ting in that direction$ 5& a painter &inishes a painting# theres no b"nch o& people that come in and say they dont li'e this bl"e or they dont li'e that and yo"ve got to change this$ *ilmma'ing sho"ld# in my opinion# be e=actly that and the director is the &ilmma'er$ 6es# hes got plenty o& help along the way# and one o& the r"les is Byo" never t"rn down a good idea# b"t yo" never ta'e a bad idea$C 6o"re the &ilter thro"gh which all these ideas pass and yo" have to have that &ollow-thro"gh o& one vision &or the thing to hold together$ 6o" ("st stay tr"e to that# stay tr"e to the ideas$ Li'e we were saying# the idea comes pretty complete# b"t its a seed# and as yo" go# yo" 'eep chec'ing bac' and seeing i& its tr"e to that original idea$ Stay tr"e to that as yo" go along$ 7ew ideas can come in# b"t then yo" have to decide i& those marry to the thing and they ma'e it better# or they ("st dont &it in this one# and yo" p"t that idea in a little bo=$ 6o" march thro"gh F its got to &eel correct# &eel correct# &eel correct every element and then it has a chance o& holding together$ .hat happens a&terwards# li'e 5 said# yo" cannot control$ There are some people who stay really tr"e to their voice# they get into theaters# and people dont li'e what theyve done$ 7ow# maybe they l"c' o"t and 13 years later# people come aro"nd to loving it$ This happens in painting all the time$ 5n &ilm# yo"ve got to stay tr"e to yo"rsel&# yo"ve got to stay tr"e to yo"r voice# and then yo" have at least a chance o& being able to live with yo"rsel&$ Robert Roth: ,ow does David Lynch de&ine passion< .hat is passion to yo"< David Lynch: /assion is a small dog going by a chocolate shop$ ,e &irst starts smelling that chocolate# then speeding "p# yo" see the smile on the dogs &ace# and in he goes$ Robert Roth: 5 ("st see this little dog h"stling into this corner chocolate

store with a chocoholic addiction$ %"lholland Drive was going in a million di&&erent directions beca"se it had no resol"tion$ 7ow# all o& a s"dden# yo"re going to have to tie it all together# m"ch to the &r"stration o& most viewers# to ma'e a &ilm$ 6o" didnt 'now what to do and yo" said the sol"tion came d"ring meditation$ 5 practice transcendental meditation$ 5ts p"rpose is not to arrive at any partic"lar concl"sion or have any partic"lar tho"ght d"ring the process# b"t yo" said something came as a res"lt o& that# that tied it together$ Co"ld yo" describe how all o& this diversity got "ni&ied &rom yo"r practice o& T%< David Lynch: .ell# %"lholland Drive started o"t being a television pilot$ A pilot is s"pposed to be open ended so that people seeing the pilot become very interested in the characters and the possibilities# and they want to see it ne=t wee' and the wee' a&ter - li'e that$ .hen the deal was completed to ma'e it into a &eat"re# 5 didnt have the ideas to ma'e it into a &eat"re# and that was a 'ind o& a tra"matic time$ Robert Roth: ,ow so< .hat was the e=perience o& the tra"ma< David Lynch: The e=perience was: B.hat am 5 going to do< 5 need ideas$C 5d had 9"ite some time to thin' abo"t it# so maybe somewhere it was all being tho"ght abo"t# b"t i& yo" were to as' me what 5 was going to do# 5 wo"ldnt 'now$ 5 sat down to meditate one night# and abo"t hal&way thro"gh# these ideas started racing o"t$ 5 wrote those down beca"se i& yo" dont write an idea down and yo" &orget it# that is "n&orgivable# so yo" write them down$ 5 wrote them down# and there was the sol"tion to p"tting it into a &inished# complete &eat"re &ilm - that came# almost all o& it# at once$

Robert Roth: .hy did that happen< David Lynch: 5 dont 'now# Bobby$ They ("st came o"t$ 5 see it as a gi&t$ Robert Roth: 6o" learned transcendental meditation &rom %aharishi %ahesh 6ogi - many people have heard o& %aharishi$ They may not 'now m"ch abo"t him$ They 'now the Beatles# %erv Gri&&in# people

who have been aro"nd &or H3 yearsI b"t they don?@At 'now who %aharishi is$ %illions o& people o& all religions have learned the techni9"e# b"t theres not a nat"re or a &eeling abo"t who %aharishi is$ Theres more o& a name# a pict"re or something yo"ve heard abo"t in the past$ *rom yo"r e=perience# who is %aharishi< .hat is he li'e< .hat is yo"r e=perience with %aharishi< .hy do yo" have s"ch a conviction abo"t him and what hes doing# that yo" wo"ld stand "p boldly in s"pport o& his programs< David Lynch: 5 dont 'now %aharishi personally really# b"t %aharishi is a holy man$ They say one de&inition o& a holy man is a man who is whole# complete$ There co"ld be holy men who dont teach a way &or others to become holy men# and %aharishi teaches transcendental meditation$ 5ts a simple# easy# e&&ortless# b"t s"premely pro&o"nd techni9"e that ta'es yo" within$ All o"r senses are pointed o"t$ Transcendental meditation t"rns the mind within and yo" e=perience s"btler levels o& mind# intellect and transcend and e=perience this &eeling o& "nity# oneness# that modern science calls the "ni&ied &ield beca"se they discovered the same &ield J3 years ago$ 5& yo" went o"t onto the street and as'ed somebody# B/lease# tell me abo"t the "ni&ied &ield and how do 5 get there<C yo" wo"ldnt get an answer$ 5ts so bea"ti&"l and so &antastic that this e=ists - a way to dive within and e=perience this &ield$ 5ts not an intellect"al thing# its an e=perience$ As yo" 'now# Bobby# its the only e=perience that lights the whole brain on the ++G machine$ 5ts a holistic e=perience$ 5t ta'es the &"ll brain to e=perience the &ield o& "nity$ .ho can teach this< As' George B"sh i& he can tell yo" how to transcend and e=perience the "ltimate reality$ 5ts a h"ge thing and %aharishi has been going aro"nd# tirelessly teaching and trying to help individ"als and the world &or H3 years$ 7ight and day# almost 4K!L# he hardly sleeps# and &or people# &or the world$ Robert Roth: 6o" say the words Bholy man$C /eople co"ld thin'# B.ell# 5m a Christian# 5m a B"ddhist# 5 already have a religion$C 5s %aharishi yo"r religio"s leader< David Lynch: *or me# all the great religions are li'e rivers and every

one o& these rivers is bea"ti&"l and they all &low to the same ocean$ +verything is &ine# and transcendental meditation ta'es yo" to the ocean# and that?@As the whole thing$ 5t?@As the "ni&ied &ield# it?@As rather large# it?@As "nbo"nded# in&inite and eternal$ 5ts that &ield that is the 'ingdom o& ,eaven$ 5t never had a beginningI it is# and it will always be$ %odern science# bless their hearts# have now veri&ied what %aharishis -edic science has been saying all along$ -eda means pertaining to total 'nowledge$ The -edas are the laws o& nat"re# which e=ist in the &ield o& "nity# "ni&ied &ield# and its an eternal science$ Transcendental meditation is an ancient techni9"e$ This is all part o& a h"man thing# its a nat"ral thing$ 5ts o"r home$ 5ts where were all sp"n o"t o&# p"re conscio"sness# which e=ists there$ 5ts o"r home$ 6o"re ("st diving within and e=periencing what they call Batman#C the sel&# and thats the big sel& o& "s all$ 0nce yo" start e=periencing that# things start getting better$ The e=perience enlivens it# "n&olds it# it grows# and things get better$ 7egativity li'e dar'ness cant live in the light o& this "nity# li'e dar'ness cant live in bright light$ 5t ma'es so m"ch sense to me$ 5 dont 'now why everybody isnt meditating$ 5t brings so m"ch happiness and a m"ltit"de o& bene&its$ Another thing# %aharishi has 'ept the same message# ("st e=panded it and e=panded it and e=panded it thro"gh the H3 years$ ,es got s"ch a great sense o& h"mor and can be a very stern &ather at the same time and can be li'e a child$ Listening to him spea'# to me# and seeing him is li'e sitting ne=t to the &ireplace with yo"r &avorite people$ 5ts a bea"ti&"l thing$ The more o& that being# the absol"te# the "ni&ied &ield we have# the more people li'e being aro"nd it# li'e being aro"nd yo"$ 5ts ("st li'e people do not li'e being aro"nd someone who is s"per-depressed or s"per-angry$ 5ts the reverse o& that# and thats the proo& that something bea"ti&"l is going on$ Robert Roth: *rom yo"r e=perience with %aharishi# what have yo" ta'en &rom that< 5 'now yo" ("st spent some time in ,olland a little while ago$ 6o" were over there# where %aharishi is# in the &orest in ,olland# where he has his head9"arters$ .hat was that e=perience li'e< David Lynch: .hat its li'e is being aro"nd someone that is completely &illed with everything it ta'es and so bliss&"l$ 5ts a "ni9"e thing$ 5 thin'

yo" 'now it when yo" see it$ 5 thin' the thing is# 5 wo"ld li'e to be that way$ +nlightenment is the &"ll potential o& each h"man being and they say its o"r birth right to en(oy enlightenment$ The way yo" get it is to get so &amiliar with the "ni&ied &ield# get so &illed with that$ +nlightenment# they say# is a state described as Bmore than the most$C 5ts there in %aharishi and theres no two ways abo"t it$ Robert Roth: 5 thin' %aharishi sees that in yo" beca"se 5 happen to 'now that in all o& %aharishis interactions with yo"# %aharishi holds yo" in enormo"s respect &or yo"r creativity# honesty and boldness$ 5 thin' that enlightenment respects and appreciates growing enlightenment$ /eople can hear it in the passion# in yo"r distinct individ"ality$ David Lynch: .ell# 5m not enlightened b"t 5m growing in that$ The way yo" grow more 9"ic'ly is to ta'e on this techni9"e that allows yo" to dive within# which is a great# great# s"per gi&t that %aharishi has bro"ght$ Robert Roth: 5 want to as' yo" abo"t the &o"ndation yo" have established$ M"ly 41st this is going to be legally established# the David Lynch *o"ndation &or Conscio"sness-Based +d"cation and .orld /eace$ 6o"re la"nching a campaign to raise money and to give money to o&&er transcendental meditation to any child in America who wants to meditate$ .hy are yo" doing this< David Lynch: 5m doing this beca"se# n"mber one# 5 thin' everybody has reali ed# or is 9"ic'ly reali ing# that ed"cation# at least in America# is very poor$ 5ts happened grad"ally$ %aybe it wasnt so great to begin with# b"t its gotten worse and worse# b"t so grad"ally that people 'ind o& accept it$ +veryone wants to change it# b"t they dont 'now 9"ite what to do and it 'eeps getting worse$ %ore and more private schools are popping "p and even those schools dont &"lly ed"cate a child$ Theres all 'inds o& rising stress going on and many problems we all 'now abo"t in the schools$ 5 visited %aharishi :niversity o& %anagement and %aharishi School and 5 saw a play$ 5 remember it was a rainy# cold night# and its a tiny# little theater# b"t the theater was pac'ed$ 5 sat there thin'ing# BThis is going to be s"ch a boring evening$C 5 was in the middle$ There was no way 5 co"ld leave# and 5m going to see a high school play$ 5 started watching this thing and literally# in

maybe 1H seconds# 5 reali ed this wasnt going to be boring$ Then it ("st got better and better$ 5 saw things on that stage that 5 co"ldnt believe$ 5 saw a level o& intelligence and a conscio"sness ("st beaming o&& these st"dents# who werent actors# b"t were doing incredible things$ So creative was the play# so great was every person# and it ("st p"lled me in# and 5 said# B.hat in the world is going on<C 5ve never seen a thing li'e that$ A&terwards# 5 tho"ght# B+very actor has got to start meditation$C 5t p"ts a thing on a screen or on a stage that is really incredible$ 5ts a thing yo" are p"lled into$ The intelligence coming o&&# the timing o& this thing and the h"mor o& the things - it was so bea"ti&"l$ 5ve come to reali e that conscio"sness-based ed"cation is ed"cation where st"dents learn transcendental meditation# they learn to dive within# and they learn abo"t the 'nower and then they can learn abo"t the ob(ect o& 'nowledge$ Right now# most schools are ("st aven"es o& 'nowledge and no 'nowledge o& the 'nower# the sel&# and they say its li'e learning abo"t the rays o& the s"n - all the di&&erent aven"es that we learn in school b"t not abo"t the s"n itsel&$ 6o" ("st add this element to school and every time its done# the st"dents ("st blossom$ All the problems that theyve had in the schools# where theyve introd"ced this conscio"sness-based ed"cation# the problems go away and the st"dents blossom$ They get great# &antastic grades and theyre not ("st boo' n"tsI in every single aven"e# they blossom$ 5 wanted to help get that going$ Thats why the conscio"sness-based ed"cation$ This ties in# as yo" 'now# to world peace as well$ Robert Roth: 5 wo"ld li'e to add here that when yo" loo' on the website# yo"ll see that there have been programs in inner-city schools# .ashington# D$C$ and Detroit# and research has been cond"cted on meditating school 'ids# &or e=ample# by the :niversity o& %ichigan$ Theyve &o"nd that these 'ids at this inner-city school in Detroit have red"ced depression# better grades# get along better with each other$ There are other st"dies that have shown higher grade point averages# improvements with 'ids with learning disorders# AD,D in .ashington# D$C$ 5n *air&ield# the school yo" were tal'ing abo"t# %aharishis School# that school# &or 1H consec"tive years has scored in the top 22th percentile

in the co"ntry in national standardi ed tests$ They have 13 times the national average &or 7ational %erit Scholars# so it is an e=traordinary school$ and 5 thin'# an e=ample o& what can happen when children get a chance to ("st develop who they are inside$ David Lynch: +=actly right$ Robert Roth: At ,ealthy .ealthy n.ise# we believe strongly in the power o& intention to mani&est o"tcomes$ .hat is yo"r biggest c"rrent pro(ect# and what intention wo"ld yo" li'e "s at ,ealthy .ealthy n.ise to hold &or yo"< David Lynch: Thats bea"ti&"l$ %aharishi says# B.here the attention is# that becomes lively#C and 5 see that as a &oc"s$ .hat yo"re &oc"sing on# &or instance# ideas - when yo" &oc"s# the &oc"sing is li'e the bait on a hoo' and the ideas are li'e &ish$ 5& yo"r &oc"s is good eno"gh# the &ish will come in$ The deeper the water# the bigger the &ish# so when yo" add meditation to yo"r li&e# yo" start getting a bigger reach to the big &ish$ Right now# 5m wor'ing on a &ilm called 5nland +mpire# and 5ve never wor'ed on a pro(ect in this way be&ore$ 5 dont 'now e=actly how this thing will &inally "n&old$ 5& people want to help me in &oc"sing# that wo"ld be incredibly bea"ti&"l# and maybe 5ll get one last big &ish to swim in$ Robert Roth: .itho"t going into details# beca"se 5 'now yo" dont want to tal' abo"t the &ilm# how is this &ilm di&&erent< 6o"re &ollowing yo"r passionI how is this di&&erent than other &ilms li'e %"lholland Drive or The +lephant %an< David Lynch: This &ilm is very di&&erent beca"se 5 dont have a script$ 5 write the thing scene by scene and m"ch o& it is shot and 5 dont have m"ch o& a cl"e where it will end$ 5ts a ris'# b"t 5 have this &eeling that beca"se all things are "ni&ied# this idea over here in that room will somehow relate to that idea over there in the pin' room$ Robert Roth: Do yo" thin' that all great artists# scientists or thin'ers share this Bgoing on their ownC< This is really &ollowing yo"r passion$ This is really being tr"e to yo"rsel&$ 6o" are ("st going with yo"r int"ition# yo"r instincts$ 5 'now yo" have &"nding &or the thing and this is a ris'$ David Lynch: 5ts a ris' and 5m wor'ing with a very great company# Canal /l"s# Le St"dio Canal# in *rance# who ("st believe in me# eno"gh anyway# to let me &ind my way$ 5 dont 'now how other people

wor'$ Li'e 5 said# this is a di&&erent way o& wor'ing than 5ve ever done be&ore# b"t its pretty e=citing$ Robert Roth: 5s it stress&"l< David Lynch: 5ts a hair stress&"l# Bobby# beca"se 5m o"t there in a boat# trying to get the idea &or a paddle$ Robert Roth: 6o"re hoping &or that dog who smells the chocolate$ David Lynch: 5m hoping theres a chocolate shop aro"nd the corner$ *or more in&ormation abo"t the David Lynch *o"ndation and the wor' they are doing to bring meditation to st"dents aro"nd the world# go to: www$davidlynch&o"ndation$com$