Episode 43 - Speculative, but Foundational

Participants:
Adam B. Levine (ABL) Host Andreas M. Antonopoulos (AA) Co-host Stephanie Murphy (SM) Co-host Michael Hill (MH) - LMB Holdings anny Bre!ster ( B) - LMB Holdings Push Button Bitcoin (Washing Machines !i"uid #ispensers$

%B!: Hi" and !elcome to #pisode $% o& Let's (al) Bitcoin" a t!ice-!ee)ly sho! a*out the ideas" people and pro+ects *uilding the ne! digital economy and the &uture o& money. ,isit us at !!!.letstal)*itcoin.com &or our daily guest *log" all our past episodes and o& course" tipping options. My name is Adam B. Levine and today's sho! is Speculative" *ut -oundational. Bitcoin is a technology so ne! that many *asic core elements that are re.uired &or common use" simply don't e/ist0 and !e start the sho! tal)ing a*out !ashing machines" par)ing meters and Andy Schroeder's li.uid dispensing pro+ect. (hen" 1 catch up !ith Michael Hill and anny Bre!ster" on their e/citing Bitcoin *an) and payment card pro+ect in Cyprus" and ho! they !ant to turn Cyprus into a *right *eacon o& Bitcoin opportunity. (urning to more serious topics and &ollo!ing a recent scandal at (echCrunch isrupt" 1'm +oined *y Andreas and Stephany to discuss discrimination in male dominated industries. Andreas ma)es a pledge not to attend con&erences lac)ing policies to deal !ith such things" and !e &inish up !ith a tal) a*out hiring practices. (han)s to those you !ho have purchased video con&erence passes" !e're very e/cited to provide this service and have another !ay to raise the &unds to po!er the sho!. 1& you haven't already pre-ordered your pass in *itcoins" visit !!!.*itcoinvideopass.com and see ho! easy *uying in Bitcoin can *e. #arly *ird prices end soon2 (han)s &or listening" and en+oy the sho!. 3456%78 %B!: 9e spent a lot o& time tal)ing a*out ho! Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are in a really nascent stage" really" really early in the li&ecycle" and so a lot o& things you !ould e/pect to e/ist" in &act don't" *ecause no*ody's *othered to ma)e them yet. 1n the last couple o& !ee)s" 1've gotten to )no! a &e! di&&erent guys and their pro+ects and 1 !anted to ta)e the opportunity to sort o& start tal)ing a*out this. (he topic *roadly" 1'm calling :ush Button Bitcoin. 1t's these devices providing inter&ace *et!een real !orld stu&& and Bitcoin" and cryptocurrency *roadly spea)ing. (here are a couple pro+ects. (he &irst one is Morgan ;oc)!ell out o&" 1 thin) he's in ,ancouver. He's !or)ing on a Bitcoin !ashing machine" *ut it's not +ust a*out a !ashing machine. #ssentially" !hat he's designed" again" it's this inter&ace that" essentially" you send *itcoin to0 it has a little screen" it has an address that it gives you and it tells you ho! much to send and then" once that amount has *een received" it's appropriate &or !hatever it's trying to do0 then it presses a *utton. 1t can press a *utton &or a set length o& time i& there's something that only operates !hile it's *eing pressed or0 it can *asically activate things. He envisions using it in laundromats !here0 there are no" there are no dollars" there is no

change that needs to have armored cars come pic) it up. 1nstead you +ust go to the laundromat" you send your &raction o& a *itcoin to it and there you go" it turns on and you've got your solution there. 34<6=78 %%: >uic) e/planation *ecause as a non-American 1 have to tell you a laundromat is a very American thing. 34%64$8 %B!: ?h 2 34%64$8 %%: A laundromat is a commercial esta*lishment &ull o& !ashing machines and dryers" !here you can go i& you don't have one in your home" and you can deposit money to !ash and dry your clothes. oesn't e/ist every!here" +ust letting you )no!. 34%65@8 %B!: 1 actually had no idea. 1 have never used a laundromat *ut 1 did not )no! they !ere a AS phenomenon. Amm so... 34%6<58 SM: 1 haven't either *ut 1 have used in apartment comple/ sometimes they'll have a pay machine that's li)e" +ust &or the *uilding. 34%6<B8 %%: Ces" in other places" especially in #urope at least" it !as only in student dorms that you !ould &ind that )ind o& thing. But yeah still" even in student dorms" 1 thin) that's a great application &or vending machines" and student services and... laundry. 34%6$48 SM: Detting those rolls o& .uarters !as the !orst... (Laughter) 34%6$%8 %%: #/actly2 34%6$$8 %B!: 9ell" and it's also *ad &or the *usiness o!ner too *ecause then they have to ta)e all those rolls o& .uarters that people have spent" !ith them" and someho! get them to a *an)" !hich means that you can *e ro**ed0 and 1 mean again" there are li)e all o& these things that add to the cost o& doing *usiness that i& you don't have tangi*le money that actually can *e stolen &rom your esta*lishment" it sort o& &i/es that pro*lem. (o a lesser e/tent" this is also true o& one o& the other areas that Morgan's loo)ing out !ith this pro+ect6 par)ing meters" !here you )no!" you par) and then again" 1.. 1 thin) this not +ust AS" so correct me i& 1'm !rong here" you put in a couple o& coins into the par)ing meter and then you have a set amount o& time. (he pro*lem is" is that these machines can *rea) and they have mechanisms" !here things can get stuc)" and they can *e stolen *ecause they can +ust *e cut o&& and" you can ta)e the !hole thing !ith you. 9ith Bitcoin again" there's nothing to ta)e so... there are advantages there. 34$6%58 %%: All o& these are e/amples o& payment systems that primarily operate !ith coins" so small denomination payments. 1& they do operate !ith notes" that's relatively rare0 and most o& these don't have credit card machines" and the primary reason is o& course" the cost o& the transactional &ee that goes !ith each o& these. 1t's a per&ect niche &or Bitcoin isn't itE 34$6=%8

%B!: ?nce you get to a place o& adoption it is" *ut again you have li)e this chic)en-egg pro*lem !here it almost doesn't ma)e sense to develop it" until you've got the mar)et *ut you can't have the mar)et until you've developed the application so... 1 thin) that pro+ects li)e Morgan is underta)ing are really important *ecause yes" they are speculative" *ut they're &oundational. (hese are technologiesF again" !hat's he doingE He is essentially created something that's an inter&ace to push a *utton0 *ut still" the implications" i& you play it out" are enormous. 34=6578 SM: Ceah" e/actly. (hat's going to ma)e people's lives easier" and 1 thin) people really appreciate !hen you ma)e their lives easier. 1 !as +ust picturing" &or instance" !hat i& there !as a *ar or li)e a co&&ee shop or something" that had up at the *ar a Bitcoin vending machine and ne/t to it" a Bitcoin soda machine0 so li)e you could may*e put cash in" get some *itcoins on your phone and then &or the ne/t month or so" you'd *e a*le to 3audio *ro)en8 >; code ne/t to a soda machine and get a soda !ith your *itcoins that you +ust *ought. (hat !ould *e really cool and it !ould provide a !ay to get around the cash issue and the soda machine could *e much smaller i& it operated !ith something li)e Bitcoin. (he possi*ilities are +ust endless and especially i& it's paired !ith a .uic) and easy !ay &or people to get *itcoins. 1t evens increases it more" especially during the adoption phase !here people having trou*le getting *itcoins sometimes. 34@6558 %%: Adam" do you )no! i& the plat&orm used &or this pro+ect !as something li)e an Arduino or ;asp*erry:i" or something li)e that. 1'd *e interested in the possi*ilities o& others using em*edded micro-electronics to do Bitcoin stu&&. 34@6<=8 %B!: 1 don't )no! the speci&ic hard!are that he's !or)ing on" *ut 1 do )no! that it is *ased o&& o& Arduino... %%: :er&ect2 34@6%58 %B!: ...and that it is an open source plat&orm. 1'm not sure i& his pro+ect is &ully open source" 1'm not clear on that0 *ut he has *een developing his initial prototypes on that plat&orm. 1t's great *ecause the *arrier to entry there" to +ust create something and ma)e sure it's going to !or)" is so small that again" you can leverage this. (he cost to do it is .uite lo!" even though it's very speculative. 34@6$G8 %%: 1 thin) that intersection o& micro-electronics" )ind o& hac)er spaces and micropayment !ill *e very interesting. 34@6=@8 %B!: A*solutely" and !e've already seen.. 1 mean" Morgan's pro+ect is certainly an important one and he's *een !or)ing on it &or a *it longer 1 guess than this other one. 1 spo)e !ith Andy Schroeder the other day. He's !or)ing on a Bitcoin &luid dispenser and he has a <4 minute video up that !e're going to lin) in the sho!notes !hen 1 run that intervie!0 that essentially sho!s this entirely porta*le diesel dispensing system that is *ased o&& o& this design that he has. Cou go to a gas station and you !ant to *uy gas. Cou have t!o options generally spea)ing6 you can either put in a credit card or a de*it

card and then it'll essentially de*it" ta)e money o&&" and increase your *ill and in the end o& it" it charges you0 or you can go into and tal) to the cash register attendant" give them say $4 *uc)s or <4 *uc)s" !hatever you !ant to put on to it" go *ac) out" &ill up your car and then" once you're done i& you have change" then you go *ac) and you get the change. 9ith this Bitcoin &luid dispenser" say 1 have an idea o& ho! much 1 !ant and 1 thin) it's going to cost me $4 *uc)s !orth o& *itcoin. 9ell" i& 1 !ind up spending %4 *uc)s !orth o& *itcoin" in order to get the amount o& gas that 1 !anted to get" then automatically" once my transaction is completed" the remainder is sent *ac) to the same address that it came &rom. 1t's very" very similar to having a cash transaction !ith the attendant inside" e/cept you have all o& the convenience o& +ust doing it at the pump li)e you !ould !ith the credit card. (hat's something that initially is *eing applied to &uel" and 1 thin) that it has a lot o& interesting implications in the !orld o& &uel and &uel dispensing *ut" it could also *e applied to any sort o& li.uid. Cou could apply you )no!F Stephanie you mentioned a soda. 1 !as thin)ing a*out a dra&t *eer machine" or something li)e that. Det those *ig +ugs o& !ater" things li)e that. (here's this entire list o& things that you can do using the same type o& inter&ace. 3476%G8 %%: (o our previous conversation" 1 hope he has the a*ility to set it to measure in milliliters and liters" &or internationaliHation purposes0 *ecause .uite honestly" no one else in the !orld understands !hat on earth you're tal)ing a*out !ith these I&loH'sJ and IoH'sJ and Ilmp'sJ and gallons. Since you can't get your metric together" 1 hope he's got an inter&ace in there &or the rest o& the !orld !ho did get their metric together. 34G64@8 %B!: 1 thin) that's a relatively easy part o& the pro*lem to solve. 34G64G8 SM: 1 really li)e this idea a*out the Bitcoin &luid dispenser" *ecause it really automates that )ind o& !or). Ko longer !ould *artenders have to sit there and &ill up a glass o& co)e *y pressing a *utton and potentially pressing the !rong *utton or !hatever" and spending their time to do that. 1t could all +ust run o&& o& Bitcoin. 9hen you pay a certain amount" you get a certain amount o& li.uid and that's ma)ing li&e easier" hey2 34G6%=8 %%: 1 thin) that pro*a*ly spea)s to a *roader opportunity here &or various types o& micro-electronic devices to *ring Bitcoin into to the real !orld" and allo! you to do various &orms o& counting" measuring or dispensing &luids" o& solids" o& discrete units o& electricity" or !hatever else it might *e. 34G6==8 SM: :otentially" this could even *e a !ay to ma)e these things cheaper *ecause" !hen a human *eing doesn't have to spend their time i.e." on the cloc)" dispensing li.uids" or !hatever you're dispensing" then may*e those savings could *e passed on to the consumer. 3546548 %B!: 1t's a dou*le-edged s!ord in a !orld !here !e increasingly have less serviceoriented +o*s. (his is something !here" as !e move more and more into an automated &uture" and certainly that's !hat Bitcoin is" as sort o& a programma*le &orm o& money as it's recently *een called" it sort o& leads us to. A lot o& these service +o*s don't really

ma)e sense any more so 1 meanF ho! do thin) that !or)sE 1 mean" 1 ran out o& logic &or a second. 3546%B8 SM: 1t's great" 1 mean it's )ind o& the age old pro*lem !here" !hen cars !ere invented" the people !ho made horseshoes !ere upset. (here are al!ays going to *e +o*s &or people" and li*erating people &rom +o*s that might not *e that e/citing li)e dispensing *eer or !hatever. (hat could *e a great thing and it could also ma)e the products cheaper &or the consumers. (echnology is going to move &or!ard" a lot o& +o*s are going to *e replaced *y ro*otics" or automated systems and that's great" *ecause then !e'll *e a*le to pay less &or the things that !e *uy and people !on't have to do those +o*s that" &ran)ly a ro*ot can do0 they'll *e &ree to do other things. 35565@8 %B!: 1 thin) that that's a scary &uture &or people moving &or!ard though" 1 mean 1 understand !hat you're saying Stephanie" and this o*viously gets o&& into the !eeds &rom the Bitcoin topics" *ut that's li)e a really common concern that people have is that6 yes" you're right" in theory" *ut ho! long does it ta)e to develop those +o*sE 9ith the !ay that the !orld is loo)ing right no!" !here !e have this glo*al &inancial issue that doesn't really seem li)e it's going a!ay and +o*s in many places don't seem li)e they're really coming *ac). 3556$$8 %%: on't !orry. 1t's not the Bitcoin *umps that are going to really mess things up. 1t's actually the a*ility o& Bitcoin to *ring in the services as the other si/ and a hal& *illion and replace us" the service industries" that are dealing in )no!ledge !or). (hat's going to *e a much *igger e&&ect than replacing physical service *usinesses !ith Bitcoin" &or sure. 35<64@8 SM: 1 thin) it's inevita*le that this is going to happen. 1 mean" manu&acturing has *een going this !ay &or years" since it *egan *ecoming increasingly automated and yeah" there's pain !hen people get displaced &rom manu&acturing" or potentially service +o*s *ut" the great thing a*out human *eings is they don't +ust have one s)ill" they can do all )inds o& di&&erent things. 9hen one door closes another one opens" !e )ind &ind all )inds o& di&&erent opportunities. 1t's inevita*le" it's going happen0 !e +ust have to &ind a !ay to roll !ith it. 35<6%@8 LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL %#&E'(: Hello" 1'm Me&&rey (uc)er" Bitcoin enthusiast and host o& the upcoming crypto-currency con&erence in Atlanta" Deorgia ?cto*er =th. 9e've got a marvellously li*ertarian in&used day o& discussion a*out !hat is indisputa*ly the &uture o& money" and you are invited. -or those o& you !ho can't attend" !e've partnered !ith Let's (al) Bitcoin to o&&er video con&erence passes. Availa*le &or government currency and o& course" Bitcoin. -or more in&ormation6 !!!.*itcoinvideopass.com. 35%64G8

%#&E'(: More than %44"444 users" and counting" trust Bloc)chain.in&o. 1t's a Bitcoin !allet service and a !ealth o& Bitcoin in&ormation and it's completely &ree to use. 9ith the Bloc)chain.in&o !allet" you'll get the convenience o& a !e* !allet" and the security o& a des)top client. Bloc)chain.in&o is also a *loc) e/plorer. Cou can use it to see *itcoin transactions in real time" chec) the *alance o& any *itcoin address and vie! many handy *itcoin charts" all &or &ree. See !hat they have to o&&er today" at !!!.*loc)chain.in&o. 35%6$<8 LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL %B!: 1n the +ourney o& Bitcoin" Cyprus has ta)en something o& a leading role. #ven though it's a relatively small country *y most country standards" it !as the &irst to demonstrate that the *an)ing sector has rules that are su*+ect to change at +ust a*out any time" i& the situation is *ad enough. #arlier in the year" !e spo)e !ith Michael Hill !ho !as getting ready to ta)e the Bitcoin message to Cyprus" and to start educating people a*out it there. 9e're a couple o& months later" and so 1'm really happy to *e re+oined *y Michael Hill and his partner anny Bre!ster" so they can update us on !hat's happening in the region. Michael" it's great to have you *ac) on the sho!. 35$65B8 M): Hi Adam. (han)s &or having me man. 35$65G8 %B!: Ceah" a*solutely. 9e're also +oined *y anny Bre!ster. *usiness partner" rightE -or your ventures in Cyprus. 35$6<$8 anny Bre!ster is your

M): He's *asically the mastermind *ehind this pro+ect" that's ho! 1 li)e to call it. 1'm more o& helping him out in mar)eting and advertising department here in Cyprus. 35$6%<8 %B!: 1t's *een a &e! months. Can you catch us up !hat's happened during that time0 !hat have you *een a*le to accomplishE 1t seems li)e you've de&initely made some progress. 35$6%G8 M): A lot has happened. Since then" !hat has &ollo!ed are many layo&&s0 economic do!nturn has dampened the mood. (he economy o& Cyprus seems to *e at a standstill right no!" in the sense that people don't trust *an)s. Businessmen have to struggle !ith capital controls. 1n general" it seems li)e Cyprus is headed &or a very serious recession this year. Denerally spea)ing" the central *an)ing system has &ailed people here in Cyprus0 that's ho! they see it. Li)e you said" !e last spo)e *ac) in April. Bac) then" the mood !as much di&&erent" and as !e )no! Bitcoin spi)ed in price during the #uro group decision in March 5=. Most people have &orgotten !hat's *een happening here in Cyprus. #ven though Cyprus is out o& the headlines as o& late" people here are dealing !ith a ne! reality o& a collapsed *an)ing system. (hat's !here" !e come in. 35=6%58

%B!: 9hen !e spo)e last" you !ere getting ready to head to Cyprus and you !ere in Dreece at the time. 9hat !as the initial e/perience li)e" trying to introduce these concepts to people" *ecause again" li)e you said" the *an)ing system" the central *an)ing system has &ailed0 and yet" 1 don't thin) that there's any tal) a*out anything li)e leaving the #uro and ta)ing *ac) control o& the currency locally" is thereE 35=6=<8 M): 9ell" there !ere certain politicians that tried to populariHe the idea o& getting out o& the #uro and may*e reissuing the pound" *ut .uic)ly those discussions +ust ceased" you )no!" they +ust stopped. Ko*ody considers it a via*le option &or Cyprus and" certainly" there is no politician gunning &or that option right no!. (he mood in Cyprus right no! that !e really have no choice" !e have to stay in the #uro0 !e have to &ollo! the decisions &rom the #uro group and the (roi)a. (o a lot o& people" !hen !e come out and say - Loo)" there's another alternative. 9e can start using Bitcoin. :eople need to *e educated &or sure" a*out Bitcoin. 9e need more Dree) language content" more meetings on the ground here in Cyprus" more person to person tal)s !ith merchants" *usiness people" consumers. (hat's ho! !e're getting things done. 1t's a relatively slo! process" certainly a lot slo!er than may*e a lot o& people !ould li)e *ut" !e're ma)ing sure and steady steps to ensure that this *usiness !ill *e a success on this mar)et. 35@6=$8 %B!: 9hen !e &irst spo)e" you had the idea a*out &ocusing on education and trying to *ring a!areness" *ut the pro+ect that you guys have gro!n into involves a couple o& di&&erent *usinesses. -irst one is" 1 thin) the one that everything is *uilt o&& o& is called K#?. Can you tell us a little a*out that annyE 35B64G8 #B: Ceah" sure. K#? is going to provide *ric) and mortar *ranches around the island" so people can o*tain Bitcoin in the most easy !ay" in the !ay that they are used to dealing !ith a &inancial institution and" !e're going to ma)e it really accessi*le. 9e'll give them a !allet that !e loo) a&ter the security &or" and also !e remove all the comple/ities &rom Bitcoin in its ra! &ormat that mysel&" Michael and pretty much all o& your listeners are used to dealing !ith" so it's common &or them" *ut the average man or !oman in the street are some!hat put o&& *y the comple/ities o& Bitcoin. As soon as you start tal)ing to them" you can see them s!itch o&& !ithin %4 seconds o& mentioning the !ord cryptography. 9e're loo)ing to remove all o& that" ta)e care o& it all and let them use Bitcoin in a !ay that suits their means *est. 35B6=B8 %B!: 9hat does that loo) li)eE 1 guess 1 have t!o .uestions here. -irst o&&" !hen !e're tal)ing a*out *ric) and mortar locations" are these locations !here you're partnering !ith an e/isting *an) to provide Bitcoin services" or is this a *usiness entirely devoted to this K#? concept o& Bitcoin *an)ingE 35765%8 #B: Ces" !e're opening our o!n K#? *ranches around the island. 35765B8 M): 9e're starting &rom scratch *asically. #verything's &rom scratch" you )no!" &reshly *a)ed li)e momma used to do. 3576<<8

#B: 9e need to ensure that !e can *uild our o!n trust" and develop that trust over a period o& time !ith our customers and the Cypriot people. (o go and partner !ith an e/isting *an) and o&&er these" it !ould go against the grain o& everything" *ecause the traditional *an)s donNt have that trust anymore. (here's a piece that's *een released in the ne!spaper here today" that sho!s" &ollo!ing a recent survey" ho! many people actually trust the *an)s here0 and it is $ in = do not trust (laughter) any o& the traditional *an)s. 3576=<8 %B!: 1'm sure that there are lots o& people around the !orld !ho !ould li)e to do !hat it is that you're doing there" !here you're o&&ering very accessi*le *an)ing services or you're helping to o&&er very accessi*le *an)ing services0 *ut there are a variety o& reasons" many o& them regulatory" that sort o& seem li)e they prevent that. 1s the situation di&&erent in Cyprus or li)e you said" since the *an)ing system is collapsed there are no limits to their controlE 35G65@8 #B: Ko" there is no limits to their control. -irst o& all" to ma)e us regulated" they need to recogniHe Bitcoin as money. (hat is something that !e're lo**ying through our la!yers and our accounting partners" and also some other e/isting *usinesses !ere getting involved !ith this process no!6 to create a clear and concise legal &rame!or) &or Bitcoin *usinesses to operate !ithin. Cyprus can then attract outside investment" !hich is something that Cyprus really !ants &or itsel&. (hrough having that clear and concise legal &rame!or)" it !ill *ecome a hot *ed and literally create a !hole ne! Bitcoin industry in Cyprus *ecause there's so many people loo)ing to &ind a &riendly +urisdiction !here they )no! !here they stand. (hat's !hat !e're lo**ying &or here" and *ecause Cyprus is so small" !e can get direct to the decision ma)ers" and !e already have. 9e've al!ays got the clear channels o& communication !ith these people to ensure this can happen. 3<464=8 M): Cyprus has a long history o&F it's a service oriented economy. 9e do have the !or)&orce and the in&rastructure even to ma)e something li)e this !or). Also" it has a long tradition o& commerce. Cyprus is not so much o& a producer" or a &arming economy or a primary sector economy. 1t's very much geared to!ards tertiary sectors" services" &inance and *usiness. (his" along !ith the economic situation" !ith the collapse o& the *an)s and the economic do!nturn0 it really ma)es Cyprus an ideal place to open this *usiness. 3<46%78 #B: Coming on &rom that" some*ody said to me" that hadn't heard o& Bitcoins prior to meeting me" a*out three months ago" he's no! one o& the *iggest Bitcoin &ollo!ers out there. He &ills my email in*o/ every day !ith every single Bitcoin ne!s story" !ith his o!n comments. He said to me6 &or revolution to occur" you need a *ig *ang event and the *ail-ins !as that *ig *ang event" !hich has provided the plat&orm &or this to succeed here in Cyprus0 to hand the po!er *ac) to the people that !ere le&t po!erless *y those that have ta)en their trust and a*used it. 3<56548 %B!: Cou said that you're going to hide a lot o& the comple/ity &rom users. Can you give us a little *it o& detail a*out !hat part speci&ically you've identi&iedE 3<565G8

#B: (he &irst one6 it's your Bitcoin address. A 3gar*led audio6 %$E8 character )ey" to loo) at it" compared to an 7-digit account num*er that you'd get !ith a traditional *an)0 a*solutely every*ody that 1've spo)en to pre&ers the 7-digit account num*er. 9e're going to *e changing *ehaviours" *ut not changing them too &ast *ecause" i& you try and en&orce too much change too .uic)ly" people +ust re+ect it. 9e're going to let them interact !ith us ho! they do their normal traditional *an) so !e can ma)e that change slo!ly over a period o& time. 3<56$78 %B!: Let me +ust ta)e a guess here. 9hat you're going to do is you're going to give them an account num*er thatNll *e !ith K#? and then" that'll *e connected to one or multiple Bitcoin addressesE 3<56=78 #B: Ces" in the *ac)-end" !e're going to *e using multiple-signature addresses" so i& the account holder !as to suddenly pass a!ay or anything" the heirs to that money can o*tain the *alance &rom that !allet0 and also" should !e &ail as a *usiness" through another %rd legal party" they can provide the t!o private )eys to gain access to that !allet. #ven i& !e're not here as a *usiness anymore" people could still their money out. 3<<6<@8 %B!: Both parties turn their )eys at the same time and there are three )eys out there that !or). 3<<6%48 #B: Ces. 3<<6%48 %B!: (hat sounds li)e an interesting !ay to remove a lot o& the comple/ity !ithout removing any o& the limitations. (he multi-sig )ey thing is a really interesting !ay to go a*out that. 1t's li)e people are partnering !ith you to secure their &unds *ecause on their o!n they lac) the a*ility to do that and on your o!n you don't have the a*ility to do that and still ma)e it availa*le to them in a !ay that they need it to *e availa*le. 1 thin) that's an interesting solution &or that. 3<<6=%8 #B: Ces" plus it also removes the possi*ility o& us &ailing and the customer's money disappearing at the same time0 and also" it protects their sons'" daughters'" grandchildren's inheritance so they can al!ays access those coins. (he contract that !e have !ith %rd party" !e'll ma)e it pu*licly )no!n !ho that %rd party is once the &inal decision has *een made. (hat contract *et!een ourselves !ill ensure that !e cannot +ust ta)e a customer's money. All they can do is" at the re.uest o& the customer" or in the presence o& a death certi&icate" provide access to that !allet. 3<%6<G8 %B!: (his interloc)s !ith your other system !hich is called B## and" B## seems to me to *e )ind o& li)e a transaction net!or)" is that rightE 3<%6%B8 #B: Ces" it's our version o& ,isa or Mastercard. (he name !as ta)en *ecause the president at the time o& the *ail-ins" !as tal)ing a*out a plan B that he never really had.

9e've called the net!or) B## as in plan B" and also !e can slide the Bitcoin logo into the B## logo as !ell. 3<%6=@8 M): And also *ecause everyone loves *ees" 1 guess. 3<%6=G8 #B: 9ith B##" it !ill allo! our customers to access their &unds through a net!or) o& merchants. 9e can provide almost instant settlements and" much" much lo!er transaction &ees" in comparison to the monopoly holder here" in Cyprus" that provides payment gate!ays. Because o& that monopoly holder" e-commerce hasn't ta)en o&& in Cyprus as it has on pretty much every other country in the !orld. 3<$6<$8 M): 1 !ould also add that the payment net!or) also ans!ers the very &re.uent .uestion o&6 ?) !hat can i do !ith *itcoinsE 1n the Bitcoin meetings people are saying ?O" say that 1 *uy a *itcoin" 1 mean !ho's going to accept itE Ho! do 1 use itE (his !ould *e an o*vious ans!er. 9e're planning on initially launching !ith a net!or) o& a 5444 merchants in Cyprus that !ill accept the B## payment net!or). ?nce !e have that in place" it'll *e a lot easier to convince people to deposit their money !ith K#? and to use the payment net!or) card. 3<$6=78 %B!: Have you *een tal)ing to merchants a*out that yetE 3<=6448 #B: Ces2 1 really !ish that 1 could give the *ig *loc)*uster ne!s" *ut !e're +ust !aiting to sign the contracts on the second one" *ut 1 can guarantee you it !ill ma)e a &e! headlines !ithin Bitcoin. 3<=6558 M): Ces" and also" 1 can say that a lot o& people here in Kicosia" a lot o& merchants li)e small shop o!ners" or +ust convenience store o!ners" something li)e that0 they're very interested in this" especially !ith the lo! transactions &ees and the instant pay settlements. 1 mean" those t!o are +ust so o*vious advantages to them" they're practically sold right no!" 1 !ould say. 3<=6%$8 %B!: -rom the user's perspective" !hat does a B## transaction loo) li)eE 1s it li)e a de*it card transactionE 3<=6$48 #B: (o use the B## net!or)" !e're going to *e using #M, chip and pin systems" *ut !e're also adding a second layer o& authentication *ecause Bitcoin *eing irreversi*le and instantaneous" !e need to ensure that a card and :1K cannot +ust *ecome compromised" as it is !ith a traditional *an). 9hat !e've added in is &ingerprint technology so it doesn't slo! do!n transaction time. (here are other !ays do it *ut people in Cyprus" there isn't a great mar)et penetration o& Smartphone users as there are on other parts o& the !orld. (he easiest !ay &or us to do it" is through &ingerprint technology and the chip and :1K system. (o compromise the card" they need to cut the person's &inger o&& and" get the :1K num*er and the card to *e a*le to use it in the store. ?nline !e're going to *e introducing &or *oth our online account management services and &or online card purchases" !e're going to use a chip and :1K smart card reader" !hich is very common in the AO and it has reduced the losses to online *an)ing &raud

drastically" since the introduction o& these. 1t provides once the customer's put the card into the reader" entered the :1K num*er" provided the response codes on the screen" !hich !ill then provide the customer !ith a num*er that they must respond into the system !ith" to add another layer o& authentication. 3<B64@8 %B!: (his is t!o-&actor authentication !here you have a little point o& sale card reader device plugged into your computer. 3<B65<8 #B: 1t's not much *igger than a credit card itsel&. Almost all the *an)s in the Anited Oingdom use them" and they have had really high success rates o& reducing compromised accounts online. 3<B6<%8 %B!: 1t's much sa&er. 3<B6<$8 #B: Ceah. 3<B6<=8 %B!: 9hat's the catchE Kot speci&ically !ith the card reader" *ut !ith your pro+ect in general. 9hat are the ris)s and dangers you're still trying to overcomeE 3<B6%<8 #B: (he *iggest one is the price volatility !ith Bitcoin. (hat !as a *arrier o& entry to our customers" so !e are going to *e o&&ering pegged accounts. Most o& the current terms are *eing *rought up &rom !ithin the communities" that lac) o& plat&orms to trade options and &utures. 9e've gone out and spo)en !ith the operators o& the e/isting plat&orms that have vasts amounts o& li.uidity on their plat&orms. (he response has *een great. Some o& them are going to *e included in our lo**ying process. ?ne this morning !as already planning all types o& di&&erent &unds that they could o&&er in Bitcoin" *e&ore 1'd even le&t the room. (he response there has *een great. 9e )no! that !e need to get these plat&orms to *e a*le to reduce the ris) on ourselves" and that !ill *e an added *ene&it to Bitcoin" *ecause throughout the &orums" the threads" on ;eddit and places li)e that" people constantly complain that they have a lac) o& options in trading plat&orms" *ecause it's very much restricted to the common three or &our e/changes. 9e've gone out there to spea) !ith the operators o& these plat&orms" !hich could increase the amount o& li.uidity and increase the volume in Bitcoin itsel& !ith their o!n e/isting customer *ase0 *ut it also gives people &rom !ithin Bitcoin already" a chance to ac.uire the services that they've *een loo)ing &or" &or .uite a !hile. 3<76=58 %B!: (hese aren't conventional Bitcoin e/changes. (hey're more li)e legacy plat&orms that deal !ith traditional -?;#PE 3<76=@8 #B: Ces" traditional &inancial mar)et sector" yes. 3<G6448 %B!: And you're partnering !ith them to integrate Bitcoin into their o&&eringsE 3<G64%8 #B: 9e're not essentially partnering !ith them. 9e're selling Bitcoin to them to get them to introduce it into to their o&&erings. 9e !ill have trading relationships !ith some o& the plat&orm *ecause !e'll need to use them. 3<G65@8

%B!: 1 see. ;ather than trying to *ootstrap locally using only the li.uidity availa*le in Cyprus" you've gone to the international mar)et and are using their li.uidity to ma)e sure all your local needs are met !hile gro!ing the Cyprus mar)et. 3<G6<78 #B: Ces. 3<G6<G8 %B!: ?O" so again" !hat's the catchE 3<G6%<8 #B: -rom the outset" 1 set out" !hen 1 !as developing this idea" even *e&ore the *an)ing &iasco that happened in March and April here. 9hat are the pro*lems &or Bitcoin to catch on" on a mass scaleE Comple/ity" cannot spend my money" the volatility. (hrough addressing each one o& those pro*lems it *rought up ne! pro*lems" !hich have *een !ell documented in the thread and 1've *een una*le that 1 couldn't really tal) a*out it too much. But no!" things have progressed even &urther. 1've *rought meetings &or!ard to ensure that 1 could provide more in&ormation than !as previously envisioned. 9e've gone out and addressed" !e've made the connections !ith the regulators" the la!yers" the accountancy &irms and the people that are !or)ing in &inance here already. 9e've got all the contacts and most o& them are great on the idea. A lot o& these people have lost out in the *an)s already" so they !ant to see an alternative. (he *iggest part that !e )eep getting told *y these people is" you've got to mar)et it right" !hich is !hy !e've partnered !ith (elia Q :avla" and some o& the activities that !e've got" Michael !ill *e a*le to tell you a*out" even in more detail. ?ur &irst &or Bitcoin again" !e're advertising on the (," !ith airlines as !ell" airports. 3%46$B8 M): 9e're planning a &ull media campaign &or !hen !e launch" &ull :; campaign as !ell. ?rganiHing road sho!s and tal)ing to merchants" setting up the net!or) and then advertising to the general pu*lic a*out K#?. 9e've *een !or)ing !ith (elia Q :avla on this and they're ready to go. 9e're +ust !aiting &or the right moment to pull the trigger on that. Ceah" li)e you said" you're loo)ing &or the catch here. (he &act that you're &inding it hard to &ind a catch" it +ust sho!s ho! much sense this *usiness model ma)es. 1n the conditions that !e're living in right no!" here in Cyprus0 it +ust seems to *e li)e the per&ect storm o& events have come together to create this *usiness" and !e're really con&ident that it !ill !or). 3%56%<8 #B: (here is al!ays ris) involved. 1 don't !ant people to thin) that !e're ignoring ris)s. 1& Bitcoin !as to catastrophically implodeF there is ris) involved" *ut !e've ta)en steps to ensure that !e have a contingency plan &or each and every possi*le case scenario. 9e are operating on the &ull reserve *asis and" there's a spreadsheet going to *e released !hich demonstrates +ust e/actly ho! !e can trade" and people themselves" including yoursel& Adam" can put their &igures in. (he spreadsheet is preloaded !ith all the &igures &rom the height o& the April crash do!n to the lo!est point !hen it crashed B=R across t!o days. 9e've already included those &igures" so i& any*ody !ants to add their o!n &igures" their o!n amount o& deposits" spread them out di&&erently *et!een time *ased accounts and instant access accounts0 they'll *e a*le to do that

and see ho! e/actly our *usiness model operates to ensure that the customer's al!ays got the correct amount o& *itcoins in their !allet. 3%<6%58 %B!: (he &ull reserve *asis is an interesting thing. 9e've seen people tal) a*out or attempt Bitcoin *an)s *e&ore" *ut you seem &airly &ar along in the process. 9hat's the ne/t stepE 9hat's re.uired to ma)e this actually happenE 3%<6$<8 #B: (he 1:,? !ill start on -riday at 5:M #S(. 3%<6$@8 %B!: ?O" !hat's an 1:,?E 3%<6$78 #B: 1t's 1nitial :u*lic ,irtual ?&&ering. Many people !ithin Bitcoin re&er to them as an 1:? !hich is very much a 9all Street term" *ut !hat !e're o&&ering is essentially" cro!d&unding !ith a pro&it share. 9e !anted to di&&erentiate ourselves &rom the traditional stoc) mar)ets. 1t's not traded on 9all Street" it's traded on Bit&under and it's accessi*le through B(C-(C and Haveloc)" as !ell. 9ith getting the collective" &rom !ithin the Bitcoin community" to raise the initial capital re.uired to ta)e all o& these steps" things are *eing pretty positive so &ar" *ut 1 don't count my chic)en until it's done. 3%%6<$8 %B!: 1& you're not using the &ractional reserve model" ho! are you planning to generate this pro&itE 3%%6<G8 #B: 9hat !e're going to *e doing is removing the negative ris) o& the volatility so !hen the price drops !e add more *itcoins to our customers' !allets &rom our o!n reserves0 !hen the price increases" the e/change rate increases !ith Bitcoin" that's !here !e ma)e our pro&its &rom those accounts. 9e do have some time *ased deposits accounts" *et!een @ and @4 months" !here people can essentially put their money into their !allet &or @ months" 5< months" <$. (hey'll receive a percentage o& every month's gro!th and then !e" as K#?" !ill *ene&it &rom the rest *ut !e also provide the protection against the &alls in the price. (hey are o&&ered the potential to earn more as more as Bitcoin gro!s itsel&. (hat also ensures the coins aren't going to *e !ithdra!n &or @" or 5<" or <$ months. 9e're going to *e o&&ering insurance products through a carrier" so !e can *rand the products and that's very much still in the !or)s. 9e're not +ust operating on the *asis that the Bitcoin price is going to go up. 9e are loo)ing to *ring in other additional strings o& income" such as international money remittance" transaction &ees on B## and the :?S rental charge. 9e've tried to *e as &air as !e possi*ly can &or to merchants. (he &irst one thousand merchants" !e are removing all *arriers to the adoption" so they're getting &ree transactions and the &ree :?S too. (hey have the added incentive to tal)ing to to their customers to getting them to pay !ith B##" *ecause they don't have to pay %" $" =" up to 54R and they get the money almost instantly soF 3%=64B8 %B!: (hat sounds li)e a really interesting approach. Cou're letting people locally use Bitcoin !ithout any o& the price &luctuations and you're &unding *y essentially" letting investors speculate on your local customer's *ehal&. Cour investors are ta)ing on the

price volatility ris)" &or *etter or &or !orse" and the people !ho +ust !ant a &unctional transaction net!or) can use it that !ay. 3%=6<=8 #B: 9hen the *alance in their !allets decreases *ecause each one o& those *itcoins is !orth more" the *alance goes into our reserves. 3%=6%<8 M): (hat !ould *e &or accounts pegged in #uros. 1& someone has deposits in *itcoin" o*viously the price &luctuation !on't a&&ect the amount o& *itcoin in there. 3%=6$58 %B!: ;ight" *ut similarly they're not protected &rom the price decreasing and the volume in their account !ould decrease along !ith it. 3%=6$B8 #B: Ces. 3%=6$78 M): Ces" yes. 3%=6$G8 #B: 1 e/pect the ma+ority o& our initial customers to ta)e on the pegged accounts. 3%=6=%8 %B!: Ma)es sense" it ma)es it sta*le so you can conduct commerce. 3%=6=@8 #B: Ces" !e're giving the people the opportunity to use the part o& the Bitcoin protocol !hich *ene&its them the most" and right no! here" the pu*lic &eel is" the ma+ority o& them +ust !ant to protect their money. -ollo!ing research that !e've done previously" the ma+ority !ould rather put some money a!ay and potentially get a return" *ut )no! that that money +ust cannot *e ta)en *y the *an) or *y the Dovernment to pay &or some*ody else's mista)es than get a guaranteed <R over a t!elve month period and not )no! i& they're getting that money *ac) at the end o& it. 3%@6%58 %B!: 1& someone !ants to learn more and get involved in your pro+ect" !hat are the *est !ays to do thatE 3%@6%@8 #B: (he prospectus is availa*le at !!!.lm*-holdings.com. Cou can &ind us in the Securities thread o& !!!.*itcointal).org. 1'm more than approacha*le mysel&" my username pretty much every!here is CrytpoCyprus. :eople can get in touch !ith me. (hose !ho have as)ed me .uestions already have al!ays had a response and 1'll continue that as much as my time allo!s. 1 am doing <4 hour days pretty much every day" *ut 1 am very much !anting to *e open and transparent !ith every*ody and ans!er all .uestions" concerns !ith regards to the *usiness. 3%B64G8 M): As &ar as the general pu*lic is concerned there have *een criticisms a*out the legality or the regulations surrounding Bitcoin" !hether any &uture regulation !ould *e imposed on Bitcoin. ?& course" !e can't ans!er that" !e don't )no!0 *ut anny has said &rom the *eginning that !e are going to *e &ully compliant !ith any #CB rules and regulations that may *e introduced in the &uture. 3%B6%$8

#B: But !e are also ta)ing the proactive approach to saying to them that !e'd much rather ta)e the &ront &oot and have a say in any &rame!or) that is created" or provided" or guidelines that are provided &or Bitcoin *usinesses. 1t's *etter to have some*ody &rom the inside that )no!s !hat Bitcoin is and !hat it is capa*le o&0 to have a say directly !ith the regulators. (hat is something that !e're addressing &rom the start as !ell. (hat !as one o& the concerns &rom the pu*lic" !hen !e spo)e to them so that's !hy !e're ma)ing these lo**ying e&&orts as !ell. 3%764=8 %B!: 9ell guys 1'm really e/cited a*out your pro+ect. Loo)s li)e you've got a lot o& traction !ith the idea and" it's a good one. anny and Michael" than)s &or +oining me on Let's (al) Bitcoin. 9e'll catch up !ith you again soon and loo) &or!ard to your continued progress. 3%765=8 M): ?O" than)s Adam" and hope to see you in Cyrpus some time2 3%76578 %B!: Ces" some time soon. 3%765G8 #B: Brilliant. 3%76<48 LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL %#&E'(: Hi" Stephanie here. 9ould you li)e to turn your *oo) into an enthralling audio *oo)E Keed a persuasive commercial to promote your companyE Ho! a*out a narrator &or your e/plainer videoE Here's !here 1 can help. 1'm a &reelance voice-over artist and since <44G" 1've lent my voice to doHens o& audio pro+ects. (o hear some e/amples o& my !or)" chec) out my !e*site6 !!!.smvoice.in&o. 1& you li)e !hat you hear" 1'd love to *e the voice o& your ne/t pro+ect. Det in touch" at !!!.smvoice.in&o. 3%76$G8 %#&E'(: Hi" this Mason Oing" &ounder at Sean's ?utpost" and you are listening to Let's (al) Bitcoin. Sean's ?utpost is a homeless outreach in :ensacola" -lorida and !e are proudly po!ered *y Bitcoin. (o date" over 5%"444 meals have *een &ed to the homeless in our area" all purchased !ith Bitcoin and through the generosity o& the cryptocurrency community. ;ead more a*out us at !!!.seansoutpost.com. -ood" shelter" Bitcoin. #very*ody. !!!.seansoutpost.com. 3%G6578 LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

%%: (his !ee)" (echCrunch is running the (echCrunch isrupt Con&erence and as is happened many times *e&ore in tech con&erences" there !as a *it o& a controversy around se/ual harassment and speci&ically some inappropriate content. Ko!" 1 don't really !ant to get into the argument o& !hat is and isnNt inappropriate content" or ho! inappropriate or ho! not inappropriate the speci&ic content !as. (hat's not really the point. 1 thin) the *igger point" at least to me is" technology has a pro*lem and technology con&erences specially have a pro*lem !ith attracting people !ho are not !hite male heterose/uals. (he pro*lem has a lot to do !ith ho! people" !ho are not !hite male heterose/uals" get treated !hen they do sho! up at these con&erences. ?ne o& my pet peeves has *een the &act that a lot o& tech con&erences" still in this day and age" do not have strong anti-harassment policies" and don't )no! ho! to en&orce them. :art o& the &ailure" and !hat happened at (echCrunch isrupt" is really they !ere not prepared &or this" they didn't have any policies in place *e&orehand" they didnNt have any guidance &or the people participating" they didnNt have any o& !ay o& &ielding and managing complaints" they didn't have any !ay o& solving pro*lems !ith en&orcement and so" as a result" they !ere completely unprepared. My concern here is that Bitcoin !ill &ace a very similar issue. 9e're massively multiplying the num*er o& con&erences. So &ar" 1 have not seen anti-harassment policies. Bitcoin is one o& those spaces that is very male dominated" and as a result" 1 !ouldnNt *e surprised" at least &rom my e/perience in the last 5= years o& technology and going to hundreds and hundreds o& technology con&erences" i& li)e in every other technology con&erence" !e're going to &ace pro*lems !ith se/ism" harassment" possi*ly even se/ual assault and !orse" in Bitcoin con&erences" unless !e ta)e some steps no!. (hat's my pet peeve and" !hat do you guys thin)E 3$56<48 SM: 1 have a lot o& thoughts a*out this *ut" !hat )inds o& steps !ould you say could *e li)e concrete steps to end se/ual harassment and *asically" ma)e these )inds o& con&erences a more !elcoming environment &or every*ody" regardless o& gender" race" and orientation and all )inds o& stu&& li)e thatE 3$56%B8 %%: 9ell" actually that's a great .uestion Stephanie and &ortunately the silver lining" i& you li)e" is that *ecause this is *een increasingly paid attention to over the last 54 years or so" there have *een a lot o& very !ell developed con&erence policies that have *een cro!d-sourced and pu*licly availa*le no! as pu*lic domain documents that people can *ase their o!n anti-harassment policies on. (he advantage here is that these policies have no! *een tested" through doHens o& con&erences. Con&erences li)e the :ython con&erence - :yCon" the open source con&erences organiHed *y ?SCon" as !ell as the various Linu/ con&erences" that !ere among the &irst to adopt these. (hat means that these policies have *een tested !ith real pro*lems" !ith serious pro*lems" including in some cases se/ual assault and rape. 3$<6<=8 SM: 1t's +ust a horri*le thing to thin) a*out. 1& 1 go to this con&erence" am 1 going to *e se/ually assaulted or !orseE Ko*ody should have to *e as)ing that .uestion !hen they're thin)ing a*out going to a tech con&erence. 3$<6%B8

%%: And yet it's a .uestion that 1 thin) a lot o& !omen as) and conversely" 1 thin) a lot o& men have the privilege o& not having to as) that .uestion" or even consider it. 9hen my !i&e goes to con&erences" 1 insist that she goes armed" al!ays. (hat may*e a pet peeve &or me" *ut .uite honestly" 1 &ind hotels to *e very dangerous places and !hen you have a lot o& pro&essionals getting together and drin)ing" things happen. 3$<6=G8 SM: Ceah" sure they do. 1 )ne! this topic !as going to come up on the sho! at some point. 9e haven't tal)ed a*out it yet" *ut this is as good a time as any to *ring it up. 1t's *een really interesting &or me" *eing &emale and *eing around the Bitcoin community" and +ust some o& the e/periences that 1Nve had. :ersonally my interests have al!ays sort o& tended to spaces that are a little more male dominated li)e" 1'm into li*erty and &reedom" and Bitcoin and atheism or scepticism and so" all those things are pretty heavily male dominated. Bitcoin really stands out as sort o& the most" you )no!" G=G7R male. Kot that there's anything !rong !ith that" there are many great men that are in Bitcoin. 1 !ould li)e to see may*e a little *it more diversity" *ut that's !hat !e've got right no!. 1 try to do !hat 1 can to tell all my &emale &riends a*out Bitcoin" and to sho! them ho! to use it" to help them set up a !allet0 so that's +ust my personal soap*o/ to try to *ring more people o& all di&&erent )inds into the community. But going to a Bitcoin con&erence and !al)ing in and seeing models at the *ooths Booth*a*es" as they're sometimes called0 *eing a !omen you do )ind o& get this sense that #r" this isn't really &or me.. you )no!" this is &or the guys to loo) at and" hey" 1 don't mind loo)ing at *eauti&ul !omen either" *ut you do +ust get the sense that this is not a place that's &or you. 1t's a little un!elcoming. 9hen 1 go on LocalBitcoins and 1 get a message &rom some*ody !ho doesn't )no! me" invaria*ly it starts out !ith - Hey *ro" Hey dude" Hey man" and G=R o& the time" they're right. 1'm the =R !here theyNre not. 1& you go on the Bitcoin &orums - that is not a !elcoming place &or !omen. (here are a lot o& avatars" there are a lot o& comments and posts that +ust ma)e it clear that !omen are not !anted here0 this is not a place &or !omen. Cou )no!" there is a little *it o& !ay to go and" un&ortunately" the people !ho care a*out issues o& diversity !hether it's gender" racial or other )inds o& diversity" those people !ho are really tuned in and caring a*out those things.. they already get it" rightE But there are some people !ho don't get it" and they're pro*a*ly li)e a vocal minority. An&ortunately" they can )ind o& taint a !hole event !ith this &lavor o& discrimination" or !hatever. 1 do thin) that most people in the Bitcoin community" or the tech community" or the li*erty community or !hat have you" their heart's in the right place. (hey don't hate !omen" they don't hate any*ody0 they're tuned in to these things and they !ant to ma)e it an environment !here every*ody !ants to come. 1t's +ust that sometimes there are a &e! people !ho are loud and not very !elcoming. 3$=6$=8 %%: Cou )no!" interestingly" 1 thin) that's really the )ey issue here" *ecause you're a*solutely right Stephanie" it is a tiny" tiny minority. 9hat has *ecome evident &rom the application o& anti-harassment policies" especially at places li)e :yCon and the Linu/ con&erences" !as that once a couple o& !omen came &or!ard and tal)ed a*out se/ual harassment" groping" &ondling" suggestive stu&&" all )inds o& things li)e that" other !omen started coming out. ?ne o& the interesting things is it !as the same people0 it !as the same one or t!o guys !ho !ere responsi*le &or the vast ma+ority o& pro*lems" again

and again. (his !as repeat issues !ith the same people" and that's *ad ne!s o*viously *ecause it sho!s that some o& these situations are repeating" *ut the good ne!s is that once that !as seen and having these policies in place" it !as very easy to stop" *ecause it really !as +ust a tiny" tiny minority and once that minority !as *asically not !elcomed in the con&erences these issues really decreased dramatically. 3$@6$G8 SM: Ceah. 3$@6=48 %%: 1t's easy to &i/ too. 3$@6=58 SM: 1 don't )no!. 1 can see a little di&&iculty there though *ecause" it's li)e you don't !ant to *eat an entire community over the head !ith this Hey" you *etter *e tolerant o& !omen or else there's going to *e conse.uences. Most people don't need to hear that message. 1t's +ust a &e!" and they're not listening any!ay... so !hat do you do a*out those &e! peopleE 3$B6548 %%: But it's not really a*out *eating the message" it's a*out the organiHers having a clear policy that helps them deal !ith the issue. (hin) o& it this !ay6 let's say you're an organiHer at one o& these con&erences and a !oman comes up to you and says Something happened last night !ith this guy !hile !e !ere in one o& the con&erence rooms" or something li)e it... Ho! do you handle thatE 1& you don't have a policy" you have no guidance" you don't )no! !hat to do ne/t" it gets really hairy. 1& you have a policy" it *ecomes actually a very help&ul means o& ensuring that you &ollo! the steps and you treat everyone consistently and &airly" and in a !ay that's predicta*le and has *een *rought to their attention *e&orehand" and that removes a lot o& the un&airness. 1 really thin) it's all a*out the policy and !hat that does &or the organiHers" more so than dealing !ith this as applying rules to individuals. (his isn't a*out nannyism or telling you !hat you should say or not0 this is a*out the con&erence" as a private organiHation saying - Loo)" these are the accepta*le standards o& pro&essional *ehaviour in this pro&essional engagement and !e e/pect people to &ul&il those re.uirements" as a private organiHation. 3$76<%8 %B!: As the other Caucasian" heterose/ual male here" let me play )ind o& the idiot. 1'm very evidence *ased and !hen !e go to these events" 1've never seen anything that suggested any o& this to me and 1've never heard anyone tell me anything that ever happened at one o& these Bitcoin events. (his is something that !e're concerned a*out potentially happening. 1 mean the Booth*a*es aside" 1 totaly agree !ith you. (he Booth*a*es - that de&inately did happen. But outside o& that one particular vendor in that one particular incidence" !e don't actually )no! o& anything li)e this happening in the Bitcoin space" rightE 3$G64<8 %%: (o *e clear6 nothing has happened" to my attention that 1 have heard o&. (his is not a*out something happening at a Bitcoin con&erence and" as a result re.uiring a change. (his is a*out recogniHing that !hen lots o& adults get into a place" as pro&essionals together" things happen" especially in this )ind o& environment. Based on our e/periences" things !ill happen simply *ecause they have happened in hundreds o&

con&erences again and again. (hings !ill happen0 it's +ust a matter o& time. My premise here is that i& you have a policy *e&orehand" !hen things happen you can handle them a lot *etter than i& you don't have a policy. 1t's as simple as it gets. %B!: ?) and 1 can see the argument &or that and 1 don't thin) 1 disagree !ith that. (he thing that comes *ac) to me is6 arenNt these things that !e're &inding reprehensi*le" also illegalE 3$G6=58 %%: Some o& them are" some o& them are not. Cou )no!" o& course" se/ual assault" groping are. 3$G6=B8 SM: Ma)ing an app that lets you stare at *reasts is not illegal. 3=46458 %%: Actually it !as sho!ing people's &aces !hile they !ere staring at *reasts" so not the *reasts themselves. But still" yeah" ma)ing something that o*+ecti&ies !omen &or e/ample" that's not illegal. 3=465<8 SM: Kor should that *e illegal. 1'd li)e to *e clear. 9e don't thin) that should *e illegal" or at least 1 don't thin) anyone here does. But yeah" 1 )ind o& agree !ith you Adam" o& course no groping" o& course no raping" that should go !ithout saying. But" !hy is it still happeningE 3=46<G8 %B!: ?O" so then this is more a*out +ust *eing up&ront and clear a*out !hat the e/pectations are" even regardless o& !hat the rules in the real !orld are. (his is setting the rules &or these particular con&erence type o& environments" rightE 3=46$<8 %%: And not +ust the rules &or !hat is allo!a*le" *ut also the process &or ho! to address an issue i& it occurs" the e/pectations o& !hat !ill happen !hen such an issue occurs0 &or e/ample !hat are the implications o& doing something li)e thatE o you get *anned &rom the con&erenceE At :yCon yes" you get *anned. At Linu/Con& you get *anned &or li&e i& you pull one o& those things. Ko!" 1 thin) that's pro*a*ly e/treme *ut" !hatever" the point is there is a policy" it's clearly understood *y all the participants *e&ore they go there and" you have a choice as to !hether you !ant to go to a con&erence *ased on its policies or not. 3=565@8 %B!: (he solution here then" is +ust to demand essentially" policies &rom these con&erences" !hich does not cost them anything to put in place0 it's +ust something that they actually have to thin) a*out *e&orehand and then actually communicate to people !ho are attending" rightE 1 mean" that's the *arrier here. 3=56%58 %%: Argua*ly it costs them less" *ecause it e/poses them to less lia*ility than i& they don't have a policy. Ces" and that's a*solutely the argument" *ut the argument here is *ased on something else !hich 1 !ant to ma)e e/plicit. (hese things escalate. 1& you allo! Booth*a*es" you get presentations that are o*+ecti&ying to !omen. 1& you allo! those" you get people *ehaving more and more aggressively to!ards !omen and it )eeps escalating. 9hat !e've seen is that con&erences that are permissive in such

!ays" tend to create an environment that *ecomes more and more hostile" not +ust to !omen *ut minorities as !ell. 1 thin) it's important to put these policies in place not *ecause !e !ant to +ust ma)e sure that !e have a response i& something horri&ic happens" *ut also to reduce these )ind o& su*tle and repeated o&&ences i& you li)e" that create an environment that leads to the more serious ones. 3=<6<G8 %B!: 9e're trying to get in &ront o& this it sounds li)e0 trying to prevent this &rom happening in the Bitcoin space *y encouraging con&erences and con&erence organiHers to in &act" thin) a*out this pro*lem *e&ore it occurs and" to have a policy in place. 3=<6$<8 %%: 1'm going get !ay &urther in &ront o& it" *y ma)ing an e/plicit pledge that 1 have made previously &or con&erences *ut 1'm no! going to ma)e e/plicit &or Bitcoin. 1 !ill not attend or spea) at con&erences that do not have e/plicit and en&orcea*le antiharassment policies0 *ecause other!ise 1 !ould *e encouraging e/actly the )ind o& circumstances that lead to a sausage &est o& a con&erence" and a hostile environment &or non male heterose/uals. 3=%65%8 SM: 1 thin) that's really *rave o& you" than) you so much &or saying that Andreas. 3=%65B8 %%: 1t's not *rave actually" honestly it really is not. 1t's an easy choice &or me to ma)e Stephanie. 1t's very" veryF it's the easiest choice possi*le" !hich is !hy 1 thin) more o& the pu*lic spea)ers and especially the guys in the Bitcoin community !ho thin) this is an issue and !ant to ta)e it seriously" +oin me in ta)ing this pledge" *ecause &or us it's easy. 3=%6%78 %B!: (Laughter) 1 don't thin) any o& the con&erences !e're going to have policies in place yet. 3=%6$<8 %%: ?h yeah" 1 )no!" and that's going to *ecome an immediate issue !ith the Argentinian con&erence *ecause" 1'm still in communication as to !hether 1'm participating in that. (hey're going to have to put a policy in place. 3=%6=58 %B!: Ceah" 1 could de&initely see something li)e that0 again" 1 hadn't really *een thin)ing a*out that too much" *ut 1'll ta)e a loo) at the con&erences !e're going to and see ho! disruptive that potentially could *e. 1 have trou*le !ith things that 1 haven't seen. (hat's really my issue" is that 1 really try to *e very evidence oriented and 1 haven't seen anything li)e this *ut 1 de&initely understand the concern here. 3=$65%8 SM: But ho! !ould you have seen itE 3=$65$8 %B!: Ko" 1 appreciate that. Certainly there are more opportunities &or me not to see than &or me to see it *ut that's my only real tie up on this is that... it's scary. 3=$6<=8

%%: 1 totally understand. Ko" Adam" this is a*solutely understanda*le. Here's the thing" 1 have seen it. 1've seen it at hundreds o& con&erences and 1've seen it again and again. 1've seen it in the atheist community" 1've seen it in the Linu/ community" 1've seen it in the open source community and 1've seen it in the security community. Adding up all o& those e/periences tells me that these are not isolated incidents" that these are not e/ceptions. (hese are patterns that develop and they develop in all circumstances !here you have a &ield that is male dominated" unless the people in that &ield ta)e active steps to stop it &rom developing. (hat's simply the truth. (his is not something that happens to *ad con&erences" this is something that happens to con&erences. 3==64=8 %B!: ?O" !ell 1'm loo)ing &or!ard to seeing con&erences in this space get out in &ront o& this and hope&ully avoid the pro*lem entirely. 3==65<8 SM: 1 have a .uestion that may*e !e can !rap this discussion !ith" *ut it's )ind o& a *ig one. Ho! do you thin) is the *est !ay to encourage more diversity in the Bitcoin spaceE ?r do you thin) it !ill +ust happen naturallyE And are you doing anything personally to try to help that happenE 3==6%58 %B!: 1t's a good .uestion. 1 thin) that education is really the )ey. (he reason !hy !e have such a male dominated &ield in Bitcoin is *ecause in order to appreciate a lot o& the core advantages o& Bitcoin" you have to have a variety o& e/pertise almost. 3==6$=8 SM: But !hat you !ere getting at !as !hy is the Bitcoin !orld mostly !hite straight menE (hat's a really interesting .uestion that 1 don't thin) anyone has an ans!er to. (he &irst thing that comes to mind to me is an intersection o& &inance" cryptography or computers. (hose are *oth male dominated &ields. Ko!" the reasons &or !hy.. is that *ecause it's a cultural thing and it *ecomes a *oy's clu* and the !omen get pushed out" is it *ecause !omen aren't interested in those things in as great as num*ers as men are interested in those thingsE 1s it *ecause !e're )ind o& groomed &rom *irth to steer !omen a!ay &rom stem &ields and so &orth.. 3=@6<$8 %%: All o& the a*oveE 3=@6<=8 SM: Ceah" or all o& the a*ove" some com*ination thereo&. -or me" 1 !ant every*ody to use Bitcoin rightE And 1 care a*out having a large community made up o& all di&&erent )inds o& people. 9hat 1 do is +ust try to tell all o& my &riends a*out Bitcoin and help them understand it" help them start using it. 9hat 1 &ind is that !omen are +ust as receptive to it as men" i& 1 try to tal) to them a*out Bitcoin. Bitcoin can appeal to every*ody. 1t's so neutral" it's so glo*al. 1t has the a*ility to +ust go into all )inds o& spaces. 1t's not +ust &or certain )inds o& people" it's &or every*ody. Let's ma)e it happen" tell all your &riends a*out it and i& you !ant to see more !omen using Bitcoin" more people o& color using Bitcoin" more .ueer people using Bitcoin" tell your &riends that &it these demographics" and 1 pretty much can guarantee that they're going to *e interested in it. 3=B6578 %%: 1 thin) you can do a lot more in terms o& increasing diversity !ithin Bitcoin. Bitcoin re&lects the rest o& our culture un&ortunately in that" it represents a technically male

dominated &ield. As people in this &ield" !e can ta)e active measures to counteract that. 1& you recogniHe the &act that money is &or everyone" it's neutral" it's a human right" everyone should have it and this is &or everyone" then you don't have to accept the &act that *ecause the culture is *iased youNre going to ta)e that *ias and re&lect it in Bitcoin. Cou can !or) against that" you can actively !or) against that. Cou ma)e hiring decisions &or e/ample" so !hen you're ma)ing hiring decisions6 in my previous company one o& the most important hiring policies !e instituted !as stripping names" ages and addresses o&& people's resumes" so you have to +udge them *y their s)ills during the process. ?nly at the very end did you &ind out !ho the person !as" you had to do it *lind. (hat actually resulted" very .uic)ly" in an increase in !omen and minorities in hiring. 3=76578 SM: (hat's interesting *ecause there are actual studies that sho! hiring decisions are a&&ected *y the sound o& the name" the gender and everything. 3=76<=8 %%: A*solutely" it's *asically recogniHing that *ias is not something that *ad people do. Bias is something that is intrinsic to the human e/perience. 1gnoring that *ias" or !orse" &eeding that *ias is something *ad people do. 1& you !ant" you recogniHe the *ias is there" you recogniHe that even the most enlightened among us tend to ma)e snap +udgements *ased on names" *ased on age" *ased on location" state even. 1& you !ant to cut those +udgements out" you !or) actively to remove them so that you don't apply your *ias. Cou can do that in hiring" you can do that in the !ay you do mentoring and career development !ithin your company. Cou can loo) care&ully at your Bitcoin startup" your ne! Bitcoin startup and as) yoursel&6 are all my !omen in mar)etingE Are all my engineering team menE 1& that's the case" then there's something !rong !ith your hiring. 1 don't !ant to pre+udice this and say that 1'm going to get a hundred thousand emails. 1'm going to disclaim this up&ront. 1'm tal)ing a*out ho! 1 ma)e my o!n choices. 1'm also suggesting that other people may !ant to thin) a*out their choices" that's all. 1'm not saying !e should impose any o& this on any one. 1t's all a*out private companies and private individuals ma)ing choices that promote the ideals that they !ish to promote. (hat's !hy 1've made the choice to not go to the con&erences" *ut that's my private choice" 1'm not imposing it on anyone. 3=G6$G8 SM: Cou )no!" there's another point a*out that too. 1n a !ay" discrimination hurts the employer as much as the employee *ecause" i& someone is discriminating *ased on something ar*itrary li)e gender" race or !hatever" then they might miss out on a great employee and they could +ust go !or) &or another company that doesn't have that *ias. Cou )no!" un&ortunately" in some spaces" every*ody has these *iases and people don't realiHe it so it can't get addressed *ut" consider that !hen you're hiring. Cou might miss out on a great employee. 3564465G8 %B!: As !e !ere getting into this conversation" 1 !as a little *it concerned that !e !ere going to go the direction !ith it !here !e should *e ma)ing sure !here i& you are in a Bitcoin or tech related company" you should *e ma)ing sure to hire a minimum num*er o& these other minority groups" *ut that's not !hat you !ere saying at all Andreas. 356446%$8

%%: Ko... 356446%=8 %B!: 9hat you !ere saying is that you're +ust modi&ying the !ay that you even go a*out hiring and ho! you0 you )no!" you're loo)ing at s)ills *e&ore you loo) at the people. 356446$58 %%: 1& you remove the organiHational" institutional and su*+ective *iases that you have in your hiring process" diversity happens" *elieve me. 1t may not happen as rapidly as you might li)e and you're still going to get some o& that cultural *ias &iltering through" *ut you are going to *e a*le to shrin) that gap. At the end o& the day" !hen !e are tal)ing a*out &reedom and !e're tal)ing a*out choices" the &reer you are" the more you have the *urden o& that choice *ecause your choice no! has meaning" so ma)e it care&ully. 356456558 LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL (han)s &or listening to #pisode $% o& Let's (al) Bitcoin. Content &or today's sho! !as provided *y Stephanie Murphy" Andreas M. Antonopoulos" Michael Hill and anny Bre!ster. Music !as provided *y Mared ;u*ens and MaHH (o!n. 1& you can't get enough original thought and discussion" read our daily *log at !!!.letstal)*itcoin.com. Sign up &or our !ee)ly ne!sletter at !!!.the!ee)ly*itcoin.com. (o get in touch" send me mail at adamSletstal)*itcoin.com or visit !!!.letstal)*itcoin.comTtal) to *e directed to our listener su*reddit. Have a great day2 356456$<8