380 BC MENO by Plato translated by Benjamin Jowett MENO PERSONS OF T E !

"#$O%&E MENO' SOCR#TES' # S$#(E OF MENO' #N)T&S Meno* Can yo+ tell me, So-rates, w.et.er /irt+e is a-0+ired by tea-.in1 or by 2ra-ti-e' or i3 neit.er by tea-.in1 nor 2ra-ti-e, t.en w.et.er it -omes to man by nat+re, or in w.at ot.er way4 So-rates* O Meno, t.ere was a time w.en t.e T.essalians were 3amo+s amon1 t.e ot.er ellenes only 3or t.eir ri-.es and t.eir ridin1' b+t now, i3 " am not mista5en, t.ey are e0+ally 3amo+s 3or t.eir wisdom, es2e-ially at $arisa, w.i-. is t.e nati/e -ity o3 yo+r 3riend #risti22+s* #nd t.is is %or1ias6 doin1' 3or w.en .e -ame t.ere, t.e 3lower o3 t.e #le+adae, amon1 t.em yo+r admirer #risti22+s, and t.e ot.er -.ie3s o3 t.e T.essalians, 3ell in lo/e wit. .is wisdom* #nd .e .as ta+1.t yo+ t.e .abit o3 answerin1 0+estions in a 1rand and bold style, w.i-. be-omes t.ose w.o 5now, and is t.e style in w.i-. .e .imsel3 answers all -omers' and any ellene w.o li5es may as5 .im anyt.in1* ow di33erent is o+r lot7 my dear Meno* ere at #t.ens t.ere is a deart. o3 t.e -ommodity, and all wisdom seems to .a/e emi1rated 3rom +s to yo+* " am -ertain t.at i3 yo+ were to as5 any #t.enian w.et.er /irt+e was nat+ral or a-0+ired, .e wo+ld la+1. in yo+r 3a-e, and say8 9Stran1er, yo+ .a/e 3ar too 1ood an o2inion o3 me, i3 yo+ t.in5 t.at " -an answer yo+r 0+estion* For " literally do not 5now w.at /irt+e is, and m+-. less w.et.er it is a-0+ired by tea-.in1 or not*9 #nd " mysel3, Meno, li/in1 as " do in t.is re1ion o3 2o/erty, am as 2oor as t.e rest o3 t.e world' and " -on3ess wit. s.ame t.at " 5now literally not.in1 abo+t /irt+e' and w.en " do not 5now t.e 90+id9 o3 anyt.in1 .ow -an " 5now t.e 90+ale94 ow, i3 " 5new not.in1 at all o3 Meno, -o+ld " tell i3 .e was 3air, or t.e o22osite o3 3air' ri-. and noble, or t.e re/erse o3 ri-. and noble4 !o yo+ t.in5 t.at " -o+ld4 Men* No, "ndeed* B+t are yo+ in earnest, So-rates, in sayin1 t.at yo+ do not 5now w.at /irt+e is4 #nd am " to -arry ba-5 t.is re2ort o3 yo+ to T.essaly4 So-* Not only t.at, my dear boy, b+t yo+ may say 3+rt.er t.at " .a/e ne/er 5nown o3 any one else w.o did, in my j+d1ment* Men* T.en yo+ .a/e ne/er met %or1ias w.en .e was at #t.ens4 So-* )es, " .a/e* Men* #nd did yo+ not t.in5 t.at .e 5new4 So-* " .a/e not a 1ood memory, Meno, and t.ere3ore " -annot now tell w.at " t.o+1.t o3 .im at t.e time* #nd " dare say t.at .e did 5now, and t.at yo+ 5now w.at .e said8 2lease, t.ere3ore, to remind me o3 w.at .e said' or, i3 yo+ wo+ld rat.er, tell me yo+r own /iew' 3or " s+s2e-t t.at yo+ and .e t.in5 m+-. ali5e* Men* (ery tr+e* So-* T.en as .e is not .ere, ne/er mind .im, and do yo+ tell me8 By t.e 1ods, Meno, be 1enero+s, and tell me w.at yo+ say t.at /irt+e is' 3or " s.all be tr+ly deli1.ted to 3ind t.at " .a/e been mista5en, and t.at yo+ and %or1ias do really .a/e t.is 5nowled1e' alt.o+1. " .a/e been j+st sayin1 t.at " .a/e ne/er 3o+nd anybody w.o .ad* Men* T.ere will be no di33i-+lty, So-rates, in answerin1 yo+r 0+estion* $et +s ta5e 3irst t.e /irt+e o3 a man:.e s.o+ld 5now .ow to administer t.e state, and in t.e administration o3 it to bene3it .is 3riends and .arm .is enemies' and .e m+st also be -are3+l not to s+33er .arm .imsel3* # woman6s /irt+e, i3 yo+ wis. to 5now abo+t t.at, may also be easily des-ribed8 .er d+ty is to order .er .o+se, and 5ee2 w.at is indoors, and obey .er .+sband* E/ery a1e, e/ery -ondition o3 li3e, yo+n1 or old, male or 3emale, bond or 3ree, .as a di33erent

/irt+e8 t.ere are /irt+es n+mberless, and no la-5 o3 de3initions o3 t.em' 3or /irt+e is relati/e to t.e a-tions and a1es o3 ea-. o3 +s in all t.at we do* #nd t.e same may be said o3 /i-e, So-rates* So-* ow 3ort+nate " am, Meno7 ;.en " as5 yo+ 3or one /irt+e, yo+ 2resent me wit. a swarm o3 t.em, w.i-. are in yo+r 5ee2in1* S+22ose t.at " -arry on t.e 3i1+re o3 t.e swarm, and as5 o3 yo+, ;.at is t.e nat+re o3 t.e bee4 and yo+ answer t.at t.ere are many 5inds o3 bees, and " re2ly8 B+t do bees di33er as bees, be-a+se t.ere are many and di33erent 5inds o3 t.em' or are t.ey not rat.er to be distin1+is.ed by some ot.er 0+ality, as 3or e<am2le bea+ty, si=e, or s.a2e4 ow wo+ld yo+ answer me4 Men* " s.o+ld answer t.at bees do not di33er 3rom one anot.er, as bees* So-* #nd i3 " went on to say8 T.at is w.at " desire to 5now, Meno' tell me w.at is t.e 0+ality in w.i-. t.ey do not di33er, b+t are all ali5e':wo+ld yo+ be able to answer4 Men* " s.o+ld* So-* #nd so o3 t.e /irt+es, .owe/er many and di33erent t.ey may be, t.ey .a/e all a -ommon nat+re w.i-. ma5es t.em /irt+es' and on t.is .e w.o wo+ld answer t.e 0+estion, 9;.at is /irt+e49 wo+ld do well to .a/e .is eye 3i<ed8 !o yo+ +nderstand4 Men* " am be1innin1 to +nderstand' b+t " do not as yet ta5e .old o3 t.e 0+estion as " -o+ld wis.* So-* ;.en yo+ say, Meno, t.at t.ere is one /irt+e o3 a man, anot.er o3 a woman, anot.er o3 a -.ild, and so on, does t.is a22ly only to /irt+e, or wo+ld yo+ say t.e same o3 .ealt., and si=e, and stren1t.4 Or is t.e nat+re o3 .ealt. always t.e same, w.et.er in man or woman4 Men* " s.o+ld say t.at .ealt. is t.e same, bot. in man and woman* So-* #nd is not t.is tr+e o3 si=e and stren1t.4 "3 a woman is stron1, s.e will be stron1 by reason o3 t.e same 3orm and o3 t.e same stren1t. s+bsistin1 in .er w.i-. t.ere is in t.e man* " mean to say t.at stren1t., as stren1t., w.et.er o3 man or woman, is t.e same* "s t.ere any di33eren-e4 Men* " t.in5 not* So-* #nd will not /irt+e, as /irt+e, be t.e same, w.et.er in a -.ild or in a 1rown:+2 2erson, in a woman or in a man4 Men* " -annot .el2 3eelin1, So-rates, t.at t.is -ase is di33erent 3rom t.e ot.ers* So-* B+t w.y4 ;ere yo+ not sayin1 t.at t.e /irt+e o3 a man was to order a state, and t.e /irt+e o3 a woman was to order a .o+se4 Men* " did say so* So-* #nd -an eit.er .o+se or state or anyt.in1 be well ordered wit.o+t tem2eran-e and wit.o+t j+sti-e4 Men* Certainly not* So-* T.en t.ey w.o order a state or a .o+se tem2erately or j+stly order t.em wit. tem2eran-e and j+sti-e4 Men* Certainly* So-* T.en bot. men and women, i3 t.ey are to be 1ood men and women, m+st .a/e t.e same /irt+es o3 tem2eran-e and j+sti-e4 Men* Tr+e* So-* #nd -an eit.er a yo+n1 man or an elder one be 1ood, i3 t.ey are intem2erate and +nj+st4 Men* T.ey -annot* So-* T.ey m+st be tem2erate and j+st4 Men* )es* So-* T.en all men are 1ood in t.e same way, and by 2arti-i2ation in t.e same /irt+es4 Men* S+-. is t.e in3eren-e* So-* #nd t.ey s+rely wo+ld not .a/e been 1ood in t.e same way, +nless t.eir /irt+e .ad been t.e same4 Men* T.ey wo+ld not* So-* T.en now t.at t.e sameness o3 all /irt+e .as been 2ro/en, try and remember w.at yo+ and %or1ias say t.at /irt+e is*

Men* ;ill yo+ .a/e one de3inition o3 t.em all4 So-* T.at is w.at " am see5in1* Men* "3 yo+ want to .a/e one de3inition o3 t.em all, " 5now not w.at to say, b+t t.at /irt+e is t.e 2ower o3 1o/ernin1 man5ind* So-* #nd does t.is de3inition o3 /irt+e in-l+de all /irt+e4 "s /irt+e t.e same in a -.ild and in a sla/e, Meno4 Can t.e -.ild 1o/ern .is 3at.er, or t.e sla/e .is master' and wo+ld .e w.o 1o/erned be any lon1er a sla/e4 Men* " t.in5 not, So-rates* So-* No, indeed' t.ere wo+ld be small reason in t.at* )et on-e more, 3air 3riend' a--ordin1 to yo+, /irt+e is 9t.e 2ower o3 1o/ernin19' b+t do yo+ not add 9j+stly and not +nj+stly94 Men* )es, So-rates' " a1ree t.ere' 3or j+sti-e is /irt+e* So-* ;o+ld yo+ say 9/irt+e,9 Meno, or 9a /irt+e94 Men* ;.at do yo+ mean4 So-* " mean as " mi1.t say abo+t anyt.in1' t.at a ro+nd, 3or e<am2le, is 9a 3i1+re9 and not sim2ly 93i1+re,9 and " s.o+ld ado2t t.is mode o3 s2ea5in1, be-a+se t.ere are ot.er 3i1+res* Men* >+ite ri1.t' and t.at is j+st w.at " am sayin1 abo+t /irt+e:t.at t.ere are ot.er /irt+es as well as j+sti-e* So-* ;.at are t.ey4 tell me t.e names o3 t.em, as " wo+ld tell yo+ t.e names o3 t.e ot.er 3i1+res i3 yo+ as5ed me* Men* Co+ra1e and tem2eran-e and wisdom and ma1nanimity are /irt+es' and t.ere are many ot.ers* So-* )es, Meno' and a1ain we are in t.e same -ase8 in sear-.in1 a3ter one /irt+e we .a/e 3o+nd many, t.o+1. not in t.e same way as be3ore' b+t we .a/e been +nable to 3ind t.e -ommon /irt+e w.i-. r+ns t.ro+1. t.em all* Men* ;.y, So-rates, e/en now " am not able to 3ollow yo+ in t.e attem2t to 1et at one -ommon notion o3 /irt+e as o3 ot.er t.in1s* So-* No wonder' b+t " will try to 1et nearer i3 " -an, 3or yo+ 5now t.at all t.in1s .a/e a -ommon notion* S+22ose now t.at some one as5ed yo+ t.e 0+estion w.i-. " as5ed be3ore8 Meno, .e wo+ld say, w.at is 3i1+re4 #nd i3 yo+ answered 9ro+ndness,9 .e wo+ld re2ly to yo+, in my way o3 s2ea5in1, by as5in1 w.et.er yo+ wo+ld say t.at ro+ndness is 93i1+re9 or 9a 3i1+re9' and yo+ wo+ld answer 9a 3i1+re*9 Men* Certainly* So-* #nd 3or t.is reason:t.at t.ere are ot.er 3i1+res4 Men* )es* So-* #nd i3 .e 2ro-eeded to as5, ;.at ot.er 3i1+res are t.ere4 yo+ wo+ld .a/e told .im* Men* " s.o+ld* So-* #nd i3 .e similarly as5ed w.at -olo+r is, and yo+ answered w.iteness, and t.e 0+estioner rejoined, ;o+ld yo+ say t.at w.iteness is -olo+r or a -olo+r4 yo+ wo+ld re2ly, # -olo+r, be-a+se t.ere are ot.er -olo+rs as well* Men* " s.o+ld* So-* #nd i3 .e .ad said, Tell me w.at t.ey are4:yo+ wo+ld .a/e told .im o3 ot.er -olo+rs w.i-. are -olo+rs j+st as m+-. as w.iteness* Men* )es* So-* #nd s+22ose t.at .e were to 2+rs+e t.e matter in my way, .e wo+ld say8 E/er and anon we are landed in 2arti-+lars, b+t t.is is not w.at " want' tell me t.en, sin-e yo+ -all t.em by a -ommon name, and say t.at t.ey are all 3i1+res, e/en w.en o22osed to one anot.er, w.at is t.at -ommon nat+re w.i-. yo+ desi1nate as 3i1+re:w.i-. -ontains strai1.t as well as ro+nd, and is no more one t.an t.e ot.er:t.at wo+ld be yo+r mode o3 s2ea5in14 Men* )es* So-* #nd in s2ea5in1 t.+s, yo+ do not mean to say t.at t.e ro+nd is ro+nd any more t.an strai1.t, or t.e strai1.t any more strai1.t t.an ro+nd4 Men* Certainly not* So-* )o+ only assert t.at t.e ro+nd 3i1+re is not more a 3i1+re t.an t.e strai1.t, or t.e strai1.t t.an t.e ro+nd4

Men* (ery tr+e* So-* To w.at t.en do we 1i/e t.e name o3 3i1+re4 Try and answer* S+22ose t.at w.en a 2erson as5ed yo+ t.is 0+estion eit.er abo+t 3i1+re or -olo+r, yo+ were to re2ly, Man, " do not +nderstand w.at yo+ want, or 5now w.at yo+ are sayin1' .e wo+ld loo5 rat.er astonis.ed and say8 !o yo+ not +nderstand t.at " am loo5in1 3or t.e 9simile in m+ltis94 #nd t.en .e mi1.t 2+t t.e 0+estion in anot.er 3orm8 Mono, .e mi1.t say, w.at is t.at 9simile in m+ltis9 w.i-. yo+ -all 3i1+re, and w.i-. in-l+des not only ro+nd and strai1.t 3i1+res, b+t all4 Co+ld yo+ not answer t.at 0+estion, Meno4 " wis. t.at yo+ wo+ld try' t.e attem2t will be 1ood 2ra-ti-e wit. a /iew to t.e answer abo+t /irt+e* Men* " wo+ld rat.er t.at yo+ s.o+ld answer, So-rates* So-* S.all " ind+l1e yo+4 Men* By all means* So-* #nd t.en yo+ will tell me abo+t /irt+e4 Men* " will* So-* T.en " m+st do my best, 3or t.ere is a 2ri=e to be won* Men* Certainly* So-* ;ell, " will try and e<2lain to yo+ w.at 3i1+re is* ;.at do yo+ say to t.is answer4:Fi1+re is t.e only t.in1 w.i-. always 3ollows -olo+r* ;ill yo+ be satis3ied wit. it, as " am s+re t.at " s.o+ld be, i3 yo+ wo+ld let me .a/e a similar de3inition o3 /irt+e4 Men* B+t, So-rates, it is s+-. a sim2le answer* So-* ;.y sim2le4 Men* Be-a+se, a--ordin1 to yo+, 3i1+re is t.at w.i-. always 3ollows -olo+r* ?So-* %ranted*@ Men* B+t i3 a 2erson were to say t.at .e does not 5now w.at -olo+r is, any more t.an w.at 3i1+re is:w.at sort o3 answer wo+ld yo+ .a/e 1i/en .im4 So-* " s.o+ld .a/e told .im t.e tr+t.* #nd i3 .e were a 2.iloso2.er o3 t.e eristi- and anta1onisti- sort, " s.o+ld say to .im8 )o+ .a/e my answer, and i3 " am wron1, yo+r b+siness is to ta5e +2 t.e ar1+ment and re3+te me* B+t i3 we were 3riends, and were tal5in1 as yo+ and " are now, " s.o+ld re2ly in a milder strain and more in t.e diale-ti-ian6s /ein' t.at is to say, " s.o+ld not only s2ea5 t.e tr+t., b+t " s.o+ld ma5e +se o3 2remisses w.i-. t.e 2erson interro1ated wo+ld be willin1 to admit* #nd t.is is t.e way in w.i-. " s.all endea/o+r to a22roa-. yo+* )o+ will a-5nowled1e, will yo+ not, t.at t.ere is s+-. a t.in1 as an end, or termination, or e<tremity4:all w.i-. words +se in t.e same sense, alt.o+1. " am aware t.at Prodi-+s mi1.t draw distin-tions abo+t t.em8 b+t still yo+, " am s+re, wo+ld s2ea5 o3 a t.in1 as ended or terminated:t.at is all w.i-. " am sayin1:not anyt.in1 /ery di33i-+lt* Men* )es, " s.o+ld' and " belie/e t.at " +nderstand yo+r meanin1* So-* #nd yo+ wo+ld s2ea5 o3 a s+r3a-e and also o3 a solid, as 3or e<am2le in 1eometry* Men* )es* So-* ;ell t.en, yo+ are now in a -ondition to +nderstand my de3inition o3 3i1+re* " de3ine 3i1+re to be t.at in w.i-. t.e solid ends' or, more -on-isely, t.e limit o3 solid* Men* #nd now, So-rates, w.at is -olo+r4 So-* )o+ are o+tra1eo+s, Meno, in t.+s 2la1+in1 a 2oor old man to 1i/e yo+ an answer, w.en yo+ will not ta5e t.e tro+ble o3 rememberin1 w.at is %or1ias6 de3inition o3 /irt+e* Men* ;.en yo+ .a/e told me w.at " as5, " will tell yo+, So-rates* So-* # man w.o was blind3olded .as only to .ear yo+ tal5in1, and .e wo+ld 5now t.at yo+ are a 3air -reat+re and .a/e still many lo/ers* Men* ;.y do yo+ t.in5 so4 So-* ;.y, be-a+se yo+ always s2ea5 in im2erati/es8 li5e all bea+ties w.en t.ey are in t.eir 2rime, yo+ are tyranni-al' and also, as " s+s2e-t, yo+ .a/e 3o+nd o+t t.at " .a/e wea5ness 3or t.e 3air, and t.ere3ore to .+mo+r yo+ " m+st answer* Men* Please do*

So-* ;o+ld yo+ li5e me to answer yo+ a3ter t.e manner o3 %or1ias, w.i-. is 3amiliar to yo+4 Men* " s.o+ld li5e not.in1 better* So-* !o not .e and yo+ and Em2edo-les say t.at t.ere are -ertain e33l+en-es o3 e<isten-e4 Men* Certainly* So-* #nd 2assa1es into w.i-. and t.ro+1. w.i-. t.e e33l+en-es 2ass4 Men* E<a-tly* So-* #nd some o3 t.e e33l+en-es 3it into t.e 2assa1es, and some o3 t.em are too small or too lar1e4 Men* Tr+e* So-* #nd t.ere is s+-. a t.in1 as si1.t4 Men* )es* So-* #nd now, as Pindar says, 9read my meanin19 -olo+r is an e33l+en-e o3 3orm, -ommens+rate wit. si1.t, and 2al2able to sense* Men* T.at, So-rates, a22ears to me to be an admirable answer* So-* ;.y, yes, be-a+se it .a22ens to be one w.i-. yo+ .a/e been in t.e .abit o3 .earin18 and yo+r wit will .a/e dis-o/ered, " s+s2e-t, t.at yo+ may e<2lain in t.e same way t.e nat+re o3 so+nd and smell, and o3 many ot.er similar 2.enomena* Men* >+ite tr+e* So-* T.e answer, Meno, was in t.e ort.odo< solemn /ein, and t.ere3ore was more a--e2table to yo+ t.an t.e ot.er answer abo+t 3i1+re* Men* )es* So-* #nd yet, O son o3 #le<idem+s, " -annot .el2 t.in5in1 t.at t.e ot.er was t.e better' and " am s+re t.at yo+ wo+ld be o3 t.e same o2inion, i3 yo+ wo+ld only stay and be initiated, and were not -om2elled, as yo+ said yesterday, to 1o away be3ore t.e mysteries* Men* B+t " will stay, So-rates, i3 yo+ will 1i/e me many s+-. answers* So-* ;ell t.en, 3or my own sa5e as well as 3or yo+rs, " will do my /ery best' b+t " am a3raid t.at " s.all not be able to 1i/e yo+ /ery many as 1ood8 and now, in yo+r t+rn, yo+ are to 3+l3il yo+r 2romise, and tell me w.at /irt+e is in t.e +ni/ersal' and do not ma5e a sin1+lar into a 2l+ral, as t.e 3a-etio+s say o3 t.ose w.o brea5 a t.in1, b+t deli/er /irt+e to me w.ole and so+nd, and not bro5en into a n+mber o3 2ie-es8 " .a/e 1i/en yo+ t.e 2attern* Men* ;ell t.en, So-rates, /irt+e, as " ta5e it, is w.en .e, w.o desires t.e .ono+rable, is able to 2ro/ide it 3or .imsel3' so t.e 2oet says, and " say too: (irt+e is t.e desire o3 t.in1s .ono+rable and t.e 2ower o3 attainin1 t.em* So-* #nd does .e w.o desires t.e .ono+rable also desire t.e 1ood4 Men* Certainly* So-* T.en are t.ere some w.o desire t.e e/il and ot.ers w.o desire t.e 1ood4 !o not all men, my dear sir, desire 1ood4 Men* " t.in5 not* So-* T.ere are some w.o desire e/il4 Men* )es* So-* !o yo+ mean t.at t.ey t.in5 t.e e/ils w.i-. t.ey desire, to be 1ood' or do t.ey 5now t.at t.ey are e/il and yet desire t.em4 Men* Bot., " t.in5* So-* #nd do yo+ really ima1ine, Meno, t.at a man 5nows e/ils to be e/ils and desires t.em notwit.standin14 Men* Certainly " do* So-* #nd desire is o3 2ossession4 Men* )es, o3 2ossession* So-* #nd does .e t.in5 t.at t.e e/ils will do 1ood to .im w.o 2ossesses t.em, or does .e 5now t.at t.ey will do .im .arm4 Men* T.ere are some w.o t.in5 t.at t.e e/ils will do t.em 1ood, and ot.ers w.o 5now t.at t.ey will do t.em .arm*

So-* #nd, in yo+r o2inion, do t.ose w.o t.in5 t.at t.ey will do t.em 1ood 5now t.at t.ey are e/ils4 Men* Certainly not* So-* "s it not ob/io+s t.at t.ose w.o are i1norant o3 t.eir nat+re do not desire t.em' b+t t.ey desire w.at t.ey s+22ose to be 1oods alt.o+1. t.ey are really e/ils' and i3 t.ey are mista5en and s+22ose t.e e/ils to be 1ood t.ey really desire 1oods4 Men* )es, in t.at -ase* So-* ;ell, and do t.ose w.o, as yo+ say, desire e/ils, and t.in5 t.at e/ils are .+rt3+l to t.e 2ossessor o3 t.em, 5now t.at t.ey will be .+rt by t.em4 Men* T.ey m+st 5now it* So-* #nd m+st t.ey not s+22ose t.at t.ose w.o are .+rt are miserable in 2ro2ortion to t.e .+rt w.i-. is in3li-ted +2on t.em4 Men* ow -an it be ot.erwise4 So-* B+t are not t.e miserable ill:3ated4 Men* )es, indeed* So-* #nd does any one desire to be miserable and ill:3ated4 Men* " s.o+ld say not, So-rates* So-* B+t i3 t.ere is no one w.o desires to be miserable, t.ere is no one, Meno, w.o desires e/il' 3or w.at is misery b+t t.e desire and 2ossession o3 e/il4 Men* T.at a22ears to be t.e tr+t., So-rates, and " admit t.at nobody desires e/il* So-* #nd yet, were yo+ not sayin1 j+st now t.at /irt+e is t.e desire and 2ower o3 attainin1 1ood4 Men* )es, " did say so* So-* B+t i3 t.is be a33irmed, t.en t.e desire o3 1ood is -ommon to all, and one man is no better t.an anot.er in t.at res2e-t4 Men* Tr+e* So-* #nd i3 one man is not better t.an anot.er in desirin1 1ood, .e m+st be better in t.e 2ower o3 attainin1 it4 Men* E<a-tly* So-* T.en, a--ordin1 to yo+r de3inition, /irt+e wo+ld a22ear to be t.e 2ower o3 attainin1 1ood4 Men* " entirely a22ro/e, So-rates, o3 t.e manner in w.i-. yo+ now /iew t.is matter* So-* T.en let +s see w.et.er w.at yo+ say is tr+e 3rom anot.er 2oint o3 /iew' 3or /ery li5ely yo+ may be ri1.t8:)o+ a33irm /irt+e to be t.e 2ower o3 attainin1 1oods4 Men* )es* So-* #nd t.e 1oods w.i-. mean are s+-. as .ealt. and wealt. and t.e 2ossession o3 1old and sil/er, and .a/in1 o33i-e and .ono+r in t.e state:t.ose are w.at yo+ wo+ld -all 1oods4 Men* )es, " s.o+ld in-l+de all t.ose* So-* T.en, a--ordin1 to Meno, w.o is t.e .ereditary 3riend o3 t.e 1reat 5in1, /irt+e is t.e 2ower o3 1ettin1 sil/er and 1old' and wo+ld yo+ add t.at t.ey m+st be 1ained 2io+sly, j+stly, or do yo+ deem t.is to be o3 no -onse0+en-e4 #nd is any mode o3 a-0+isition, e/en i3 +nj+st and dis.onest, e0+ally to be deemed /irt+e4 Men* Not /irt+e, So-rates, b+t /i-e* So-* T.en j+sti-e or tem2eran-e or .oliness, or some ot.er 2art o3 /irt+e, as wo+ld a22ear, m+st a--om2any t.e a-0+isition, and wit.o+t t.em t.e mere a-0+isition o3 1ood will not be /irt+e* Men* ;.y, .ow -an t.ere be /irt+e wit.o+t t.ese4 So-* #nd t.e non:a-0+isition o3 1old and sil/er in a dis.onest manner 3or onesel3 or anot.er, or in ot.er words t.e want o3 t.em, may be e0+ally /irt+e4 Men* Tr+e* So-* T.en t.e a-0+isition o3 s+-. 1oods is no more /irt+e t.an t.e non:a-0+isition and want o3 t.em, b+t w.ate/er is a--om2anied by j+sti-e or .onesty is /irt+e, and w.ate/er is de/oid o3 j+sti-e is /i-e* Men* "t -annot be ot.erwise, in my j+d1ment*

So-* #nd were we not sayin1 j+st now t.at j+sti-e, tem2eran-e, and t.e li5e, were ea-. o3 t.em a 2art o3 /irt+e4 Men* )es* So-* #nd so, Meno, t.is is t.e way in w.i-. yo+ mo-5 me* Men* ;.y do yo+ say t.at, So-rates4 So-* ;.y, be-a+se " as5ed yo+ to deli/er /irt+e into my .ands w.ole and +nbro5en, and " 1a/e yo+ a 2attern a--ordin1 to w.i-. yo+ were to 3rame yo+r answer' and yo+ .a/e 3or1otten already, and tell me t.at /irt+e is t.e 2ower o3 attainin1 1ood j+stly, or wit. j+sti-e' and j+sti-e yo+ a-5nowled1e to be a 2art o3 /irt+e* Men* )es* So-* T.en it 3ollows 3rom yo+r own admissions, t.at /irt+e is doin1 w.at yo+ do wit. a 2art o3 /irt+e' 3or j+sti-e and t.e li5e are said by yo+ to be 2arts o3 /irt+e* Men* ;.at o3 t.at4 So-* ;.at o3 t.at7 ;.y, did not " as5 yo+ to tell me t.e nat+re o3 /irt+e as a w.ole4 #nd yo+ are /ery 3ar 3rom tellin1 me t.is' b+t de-lare e/ery a-tion to be /irt+e w.i-. is done wit. a 2art o3 /irt+e' as t.o+1. yo+ .ad told me and " m+st already 5now t.e w.ole o3 /irt+e, and t.is too w.en 3rittered away into little 2ie-es* #nd, t.ere3ore, my dear " 3ear t.at " m+st be1in a1ain and re2eat t.e same 0+estion8 ;.at is /irt+e4 3or ot.erwise, " -an only say, t.at e/ery a-tion done wit. a 2art o3 /irt+e is /irt+e' w.at else is t.e meanin1 o3 sayin1 t.at e/ery a-tion done wit. j+sti-e is /irt+e4 O+1.t " not to as5 t.e 0+estion o/er a1ain' 3or -an any one w.o does not 5now /irt+e 5now a 2art o3 /irt+e4 Men* No' " do not say t.at .e -an* So-* !o yo+ remember .ow, in t.e e<am2le o3 3i1+re, we reje-ted any answer 1i/en in terms w.i-. were as yet +ne<2lained or +nadmitted4 Men* )es, So-rates' and we were 0+ite ri1.t in doin1 so* So-* B+t t.en, my 3riend, do not s+22ose t.at we -an e<2lain to any one t.e nat+re o3 /irt+e as a w.ole t.ro+1. some +ne<2lained 2ortion o3 /irt+e, or anyt.in1 at all in t.at 3as.ion' we s.o+ld only .a/e to as5 o/er a1ain t.e old 0+estion, ;.at is /irt+e4 #m " not ri1.t4 Men* " belie/e t.at yo+ are* So-* T.en be1in a1ain, and answer me, ;.at, a--ordin1 to yo+ and yo+r 3riend %or1ias, is t.e de3inition o3 /irt+e4 Men* O So-rates, " +sed to be told, be3ore " 5new yo+, t.at yo+ were always do+btin1 yo+rsel3 and ma5in1 ot.ers do+bt' and now yo+ are -astin1 yo+r s2ells o/er me, and " am sim2ly 1ettin1 bewit-.ed and en-.anted, and am at my wits6 end* #nd i3 " may /ent+re to ma5e a jest +2on yo+, yo+ seem to me bot. in yo+r a22earan-e and in yo+r 2ower o/er ot.ers to be /ery li5e t.e 3lat tor2edo 3is., w.o tor2i3ies t.ose w.o -ome near .im and to+-. .im, as yo+ .a/e now tor2i3ied me, " t.in5* For my so+l and my ton1+e are really tor2id, and " do not 5now .ow to answer yo+' and t.o+1. " .a/e been deli/ered o3 an in3inite /ariety o3 s2ee-.es abo+t /irt+e be3ore now, and to many 2ersons:and /ery 1ood ones t.ey were, as " t.o+1.t:at t.is moment " -annot e/en say w.at /irt+e is* #nd " t.in5 t.at* yo+ are /ery wise in not /oya1in1 and 1oin1 away 3rom .ome, 3or i3 yo+ did in ot.er 2la-es as do in #t.ens, yo+ wo+ld be -ast into 2rison as a ma1i-ian* So-* )o+ are a ro1+e, Meno, and .ad all b+t -a+1.t me* Men* ;.at do yo+ mean, So-rates4 So-* " -an tell w.y yo+ made a simile abo+t me* Men* ;.y4 So-* "n order t.at " mi1.t ma5e anot.er simile abo+t yo+* For " 5now t.at all 2retty yo+n1 1entlemen li5e to .a/e 2retty similes made abo+t t.em:as well t.ey may:b+t " s.all not ret+rn t.e -om2liment* #s to my bein1 a tor2edo, i3 t.e tor2edo is tor2id as well as t.e -a+se o3 tor2idity in ot.ers, t.en indeed " am a tor2edo, b+t not ot.erwise' 3or " 2er2le< ot.ers, not be-a+se " am -lear, b+t be-a+se " am +tterly 2er2le<ed mysel3* #nd now " 5now not w.at /irt+e is, and yo+ seem to be in t.e same -ase, alt.o+1. yo+ did on-e 2er.a2s 5now be3ore yo+ to+-.ed me* owe/er, " .a/e no obje-tion to join wit. yo+ in t.e

en0+iry* Men* #nd .ow will yo+ en0+ire, So-rates, into t.at w.i-. yo+ do not 5now4 ;.at will yo+ 2+t 3ort. as t.e s+bje-t o3 en0+iry4 #nd i3 yo+ 3ind w.at yo+ want, .ow will yo+ e/er 5now t.at t.is is t.e t.in1 w.i-. yo+ did not 5now4 So-* " 5now, Meno, w.at yo+ mean' b+t j+st see w.at a tiresome dis2+te yo+ are introd+-in1* )o+ ar1+e t.at man -annot en0+ire eit.er abo+t t.at w.i-. .e 5nows, or abo+t t.at w.i-. .e does not 5now' 3or i3 .e 5nows, .e .as no need to en0+ire' and i3 not, .e -annot' 3or .e does not 5now t.e, /ery s+bje-t abo+t w.i-. .e is to en0+ire* Men* ;ell, So-rates, and is not t.e ar1+ment so+nd4 So-* " t.in5 not* Men* ;.y not4 So-* " will tell yo+ w.y8 " .a/e .eard 3rom -ertain wise men and women w.o s2o5e o3 t.in1s di/ine t.at: Men* ;.at did t.ey say4 So-* T.ey s2o5e o3 a 1lorio+s tr+t., as " -on-ei/e* Men* ;.at was it4 and w.o were t.ey4 So-* Some o3 t.em were 2riests and 2riestesses, w.o .ad st+died .ow t.ey mi1.t be able to 1i/e a reason o3 t.eir 2ro3ession8 t.ere, .a/e been 2oets also, w.o s2o5e o3 t.ese t.in1s by ins2iration, li5e Pindar, and many ot.ers w.o were ins2ired* #nd t.ey say:mar5, now, and see w.et.er t.eir words are tr+e:t.ey say t.at t.e so+l o3 man is immortal, and at one time .as an end, w.i-. is termed dyin1, and at anot.er time is born a1ain, b+t is ne/er destroyed* #nd t.e moral is, t.at a man o+1.t to li/e always in 2er3e-t .oliness* 9For in t.e nint. year Perse2.one sends t.e so+ls o3 t.ose 3rom w.om s.e .as re-ei/ed t.e 2enalty o3 an-ient -rime ba-5 a1ain 3rom beneat. into t.e li1.t o3 t.e s+n abo/e, and t.ese are t.ey w.o be-ome noble 5in1s and mi1.ty men and 1reat in wisdom and are -alled saintly .eroes in a3ter a1es*9 T.e so+l, t.en, as bein1 immortal, and .a/in1 been born a1ain many times, rand .a/in1 seen all t.in1s t.at e<ist, w.et.er in t.is world or in t.e world below, .as 5nowled1e o3 t.em all' and it is no wonder t.at s.e s.o+ld be able to -all to remembran-e all t.at s.e e/er 5new abo+t /irt+e, and abo+t e/eryt.in1' 3or as all nat+re is a5in, and t.e so+l .as learned all t.in1s' t.ere is no di33i-+lty in .er eli-itin1 or as men say learnin1, o+t o3 a sin1le re-olle-tion :all t.e rest, i3 a man is stren+o+s and does not 3aint' 3or all en0+iry and all learnin1 is b+t re-olle-tion* #nd t.ere3ore we o+1.t not to listen to t.is so2.isti-al ar1+ment abo+t t.e im2ossibility o3 en0+iry8 3or it will ma5e +s idle' and is sweet only to t.e sl+11ard' b+t t.e ot.er sayin1 will ma5e +s a-ti/e and in0+isiti/e* "n t.at -on3idin1, " will 1ladly en0+ire wit. yo+ into t.e nat+re o3 /irt+e* Men* )es, So-rates' b+t w.at do yo+ mean by sayin1 t.at we do not learn, and t.at w.at we -all learnin1 is only a 2ro-ess o3 re-olle-tion4 Can yo+ tea-. me .ow t.is is4 So-* " told yo+, Meno, j+st now t.at yo+ were a ro1+e, and now yo+ as5 w.et.er " -an tea-. yo+, w.en " am sayin1 t.at t.ere is no tea-.in1, b+t only re-olle-tion' and t.+s yo+ ima1ine t.at yo+ will in/ol/e me in a -ontradi-tion* Men* "ndeed, So-rates, " 2rotest t.at " .ad no s+-. intention* " only as5ed t.e 0+estion 3rom .abit' b+t i3 yo+ -an 2ro/e to me t.at w.at yo+ say is tr+e, " wis. t.at yo+ wo+ld* So-* "t will be no easy matter, b+t " will try to 2lease yo+ to t.e +tmost o3 my 2ower* S+22ose t.at yo+ -all one o3 yo+r n+mero+s attendants, t.at " may demonstrate on .im* Men* Certainly* Come .it.er, boy* So-* e is %ree5, and s2ea5s %ree5, does .e not4 Men* )es, indeed' .e was born in t.e .o+se* So-* #ttend now to t.e 0+estions w.i-. " as5 .im, and obser/e w.et.er .e learns o3 me or only remembers* Men* " will*

So-* Tell me, boy, do yo+ 5now t.at a 3i1+re li5e t.is is a s0+are4 Boy* " do* So-* #nd yo+ 5now t.at a s0+are 3i1+re .as t.ese 3o+r lines e0+al4 Boy* Certainly* So-* #nd t.ese lines w.i-. " .a/e drawn t.ro+1. t.e middle o3 t.e s0+are are also e0+al4 Boy* )es* So-* # s0+are may be o3 any si=e4 Boy* Certainly* So-* #nd i3 one side o3 t.e 3i1+re be o3 two 3eet, and t.e ot.er side be o3 two 3eet, .ow m+-. will t.e w.ole be4 $et me e<2lain8 i3 in one dire-tion t.e s2a-e was o3 two 3eet, and in ot.er dire-tion o3 one 3oot, t.e w.ole wo+ld be o3 two 3eet ta5en on-e4 Boy* )es* So-* B+t sin-e t.is side is also o3 two 3eet, t.ere are twi-e two 3eet4 Boy* T.ere are* So-* T.en t.e s0+are is o3 twi-e two 3eet4 Boy* )es* So-* #nd .ow many are twi-e two 3eet4 -o+nt and tell me* Boy* Fo+r, So-rates* So-* #nd mi1.t t.ere not be anot.er s0+are twi-e as lar1e as t.is, and .a/in1 li5e t.is t.e lines e0+al4 Boy* )es* So-* #nd o3 .ow many 3eet will t.at be4 Boy* O3 ei1.t 3eet* So-* #nd now try and tell me t.e len1t. o3 t.e line w.i-. 3orms t.e side o3 t.at do+ble s0+are8 t.is is two 3eet:w.at will t.at be4 Boy* Clearly, So-rates, it will be do+ble* So-* !o yo+ obser/e, Meno, t.at " am not tea-.in1 t.e boy anyt.in1, b+t only as5in1 .im 0+estions' and now .e 3an-ies t.at .e 5nows .ow lon1 a line is ne-essary in order to 2rod+-e a 3i1+re o3 ei1.t s0+are 3eet' does .e not4 Men* )es* So-* #nd does .e really 5now4 Men* Certainly not* So-* e only 1+esses t.at be-a+se t.e s0+are is do+ble, t.e line is do+ble* Men* Tr+e* So-* Obser/e .im w.ile .e re-alls t.e ste2s in re1+lar order* ?To t.e Boy*@ Tell me, boy, do yo+ assert t.at a do+ble s2a-e -omes 3rom a do+ble line4 Remember t.at " am not s2ea5in1 o3 an oblon1, b+t o3 a 3i1+re e0+al e/ery way, and twi-e t.e si=e o3 t.is:t.at is to say o3 ei1.t 3eet' and " want to 5now w.et.er yo+ still say t.at a do+ble s0+are -omes 3rom do+ble line4 Boy* )es* So-* B+t does not t.is line be-ome do+bled i3 we add anot.er s+-. line .ere4 Boy* Certainly* So-* #nd 3o+r s+-. lines will ma5e a s2a-e -ontainin1 ei1.t 3eet4 Boy* )es* So-* $et +s des-ribe s+-. a 3i1+re8 ;o+ld yo+ not say t.at t.is is t.e 3i1+re o3 ei1.t 3eet4 Boy* )es* So-* #nd are t.ere not t.ese 3o+r di/isions in t.e 3i1+re, ea-. o3 w.i-. is e0+al to t.e 3i1+re o3 3o+r 3eet4 Boy* Tr+e* So-* #nd is not t.at 3o+r times 3o+r4 Boy* Certainly* So-* #nd 3o+r times is not do+ble4 Boy* No, indeed* So-* B+t .ow m+-.4 Boy* Fo+r times as m+-.* So-* T.ere3ore t.e do+ble line, boy, .as 1i/en a s2a-e, not twi-e,

b+t 3o+r times as m+-.* Boy* Tr+e* So-* Fo+r times 3o+r are si<teen:are t.ey not4 Boy* )es* So-* ;.at line wo+ld 1i/e yo+ a s2a-e o3 ri1.t 3eet, as t.is 1i/es one o3 si<teen 3eet':do yo+ see4 Boy* )es* So-* #nd t.e s2a-e o3 3o+r 3eet is made 3rom t.is .al3 line4 Boy* )es* So-* %ood' and is not a s2a-e o3 ei1.t 3eet twi-e t.e si=e o3 t.is, and .al3 t.e si=e o3 t.e ot.er4 Boy* Certainly* So-* S+-. a s2a-e, t.en, will be made o+t o3 a line 1reater t.an t.is one, and less t.an t.at one4 Boy* )es' " t.in5 so* So-* (ery 1ood' " li5e to .ear yo+ say w.at yo+ t.in5* #nd now tell me, is not t.is a line o3 two 3eet and t.at o3 3o+r4 Boy* )es* So-* T.en t.e line w.i-. 3orms t.e side o3 ei1.t 3eet o+1.t to be more t.an t.is line o3 two 3eet, and less t.an t.e ot.er o3 3o+r 3eet4 Boy* "t o+1.t* So-* Try and see i3 yo+ -an tell me .ow m+-. it will be* Boy* T.ree 3eet* So-* T.en i3 we add a .al3 to t.is line o3 two, t.at will be t.e line o3 t.ree* ere are two and t.ere is one' and on t.e ot.er side, .ere are two also and t.ere is one8 and t.at ma5es t.e 3i1+re o3 w.i-. yo+ s2ea54 Boy* )es* So-* B+t i3 t.ere are t.ree 3eet t.is way and t.ree 3eet t.at way, t.e w.ole s2a-e will be t.ree times t.ree 3eet4 Boy* T.at is e/ident* So-* #nd .ow m+-. are t.ree times t.ree 3eet4 Boy* Nine* So-* #nd .ow m+-. is t.e do+ble o3 3o+r4 Boy* Ei1.t* So-* T.en t.e 3i1+re o3 ei1.t is not made o+t o3 a o3 t.ree4 Boy* No* So-* B+t 3rom w.at line4:tell me e<a-tly' and i3 yo+ wo+ld rat.er not re-5on, try and s.ow me t.e line* Boy* "ndeed, So-rates, " do not 5now* So-* !o yo+ see, Meno, w.at ad/an-es .e .as made in .is 2ower o3 re-olle-tion4 e did not 5now at 3irst, and .e does not 5now now, w.at is t.e side o3 a 3i1+re o3 ei1.t 3eet8 b+t t.en .e t.o+1.t t.at .e 5new, and answered -on3idently as i3 .e 5new, and .ad no di33i-+lty' now .e .as a di33i-+lty, and neit.er 5nows nor 3an-ies t.at .e 5nows* Men* Tr+e* So-* "s .e not better o33 in 5nowin1 .is i1noran-e4 Men* " t.in5 t.at .e is* So-* "3 we .a/e made .im do+bt, and 1i/en .im t.e 9tor2edo6s s.o-5,9 .a/e we done .im any .arm4 Men* " t.in5 not* So-* ;e .a/e -ertainly, as wo+ld seem, assisted .im in some de1ree to t.e dis-o/ery o3 t.e tr+t.' and now .e will wis. to remedy .is i1noran-e, b+t t.en .e wo+ld .a/e been ready to tell all t.e world a1ain and a1ain t.at t.e do+ble s2a-e s.o+ld .a/e a do+ble side* Men* Tr+e* So-* B+t do yo+ s+22ose t.at .e wo+ld e/er .a/e en0+ired into or learned w.at .e 3an-ied t.at .e 5new, t.o+1. .e was really i1norant o3 it, +ntil .e .ad 3allen into 2er2le<ity +nder t.e idea t.at .e did not 5now, and .ad desired to 5now4 Men* " t.in5 not, So-rates* So-* T.en .e was t.e better 3or t.e tor2edo6s to+-.4 Men* " t.in5 so* So-* Mar5 now t.e 3art.er de/elo2ment* " s.all only as5 .im, and not

tea-. .im, and .e s.all s.are t.e en0+iry wit. me8 and do yo+ wat-. and see i3 yo+ 3ind me tellin1 or e<2lainin1 anyt.in1 to .im, instead o3 eli-itin1 .is o2inion* Tell me, boy, is not t.is a s0+are o3 3o+r 3eet w.i-. " .a/e drawn4 Boy* )es* So-* #nd now " add anot.er s0+are e0+al to t.e 3ormer one4 Boy* )es* So-* #nd a t.ird, w.i-. is e0+al to eit.er o3 t.em4 Boy* )es* So-* S+22ose t.at we 3ill +2 t.e /a-ant -orner4 Boy* (ery 1ood* So-* ere, t.en, t.ere are 3o+r e0+al s2a-es4 Boy* )es* So-* #nd .ow many times lar1er is t.is s2a-e t.an t.is ot.er4 Boy* Fo+r times* So-* B+t it o+1.t to .a/e been twi-e only, as yo+ will remember* Boy* Tr+e* So-* #nd does not t.is line, rea-.in1 3rom -orner to -orner, bise-t ea-. o3 t.ese s2a-es4 Boy* )es* So-* #nd are t.ere not .ere 3o+r e0+al lines w.i-. -ontain t.is s2a-e4 Boy* T.ere are* So-* $oo5 and see .ow m+-. t.is s2a-e is* Boy* " do not +nderstand* So-* as not ea-. interior line -+t o33 .al3 o3 t.e 3o+r s2a-es4 Boy* )es* So-* #nd .ow many s2a-es are t.ere in t.is se-tion4 Boy* Fo+r* So-* #nd .ow many in t.is4 Boy* Two* So-* #nd 3o+r is .ow many times two4 Boy* Twi-e* So-* #nd t.is s2a-e is o3 .ow many 3eet4 Boy* O3 ei1.t 3eet* So-* #nd 3rom w.at line do yo+ 1et t.is 3i1+re4 Boy* From t.is* So-* T.at is, 3rom t.e line w.i-. e<tends 3rom -orner to -orner o3 t.e 3i1+re o3 3o+r 3eet4 Boy* )es* So-* #nd t.at is t.e line w.i-. t.e learned -all t.e dia1onal* #nd i3 t.is is t.e 2ro2er name, t.en yo+, Meno6s sla/e, are 2re2ared to a33irm t.at t.e do+ble s2a-e is t.e s0+are o3 t.e dia1onal4 Boy* Certainly, So-rates* So-* ;.at do yo+ say o3 .im, Meno4 ;ere not all t.ese answers 1i/en o+t o3 .is own .ead4 Men* )es, t.ey were all .is own* So-* #nd yet, as we were j+st now sayin1, .e did not 5now4 Men* Tr+e* So-* B+t still .e .ad in .im t.ose notions o3 .is:.ad .e not4 Men* )es* So-* T.en .e w.o does not 5now may still .a/e tr+e notions o3 t.at w.i-. .e does not 5now4 Men* e .as* So-* #nd at 2resent t.ese notions .a/e j+st been stirred +2 in .im, as in a dream' b+t i3 .e were 3re0+ently as5ed t.e same 0+estions, in di33erent 3orms, .e wo+ld 5now as well as any one at last4 Men* " dare say* So-* ;it.o+t any one tea-.in1 .im .e will re-o/er .is 5nowled1e 3or .imsel3, i3 .e is only as5ed 0+estions4 Men* )es* So-* #nd t.is s2ontaneo+s re-o/ery o3 5nowled1e in .im is re-olle-tion4

Men* Tr+e* So-* #nd t.is 5nowled1e w.i-. .e now .as m+st .e not eit.er .a/e a-0+ired or always 2ossessed4 Men* )es* So-* B+t i3 .e always 2ossessed t.is 5nowled1e .e wo+ld always .a/e 5nown' or i3 .e .as a-0+ired t.e 5nowled1e .e -o+ld not .a/e a-0+ired it in t.is li3e, +nless .e .as been ta+1.t 1eometry' 3or .e may be made to do t.e same wit. all 1eometry and e/ery ot.er bran-. o3 5nowled1e* Now, .as any one e/er ta+1.t .im all t.is4 )o+ m+st 5now abo+t .im, i3, as yo+ say, .e was born and bred in yo+r .o+se* Men* #nd " am -ertain t.at no one e/er did tea-. .im* So-* #nd yet .e .as t.e 5nowled1e4 Men* T.e 3a-t, So-rates, is +ndeniable* So-* B+t i3 .e did not a-0+ire t.e 5nowled1e in t.is li3e, t.en .e m+st .a/e .ad and learned it at some ot.er time4 Men* Clearly .e m+st* So-* ;.i-. m+st .a/e been t.e time w.en .e was not a man4 Men* )es* So-* #nd i3 t.ere .a/e been always tr+e t.o+1.ts in .im, bot. at t.e time w.en .e was and was not a man, w.i-. only need to be awa5ened into 5nowled1e by 2+ttin1 0+estions to .im, .is so+l m+st .a/e always 2ossessed t.is 5nowled1e, 3or .e always eit.er was or was not a man4 Men* Ob/io+sly* So-* #nd i3 t.e tr+t. o3 all t.in1s always e<isted in t.e so+l, t.en t.e so+l is immortal* ;.ere3ore be o3 1ood -.eer, and try to re-olle-t w.at yo+ do not 5now, or rat.er w.at yo+ do not remember* Men* " 3eel, some.ow, t.at " li5e w.at yo+ are sayin1* So-* #nd ", Meno, li5e w.at " am sayin1* Some t.in1s " .a/e said o3 w.i-. " am not alto1et.er -on3ident* B+t t.at we s.all be better and bra/er and less .el2less i3 we t.in5 t.at we o+1.t to en0+ire, t.an we s.o+ld .a/e been i3 we ind+l1ed in t.e idle 3an-y t.at t.ere was no 5nowin1 and no +se in see5in1 to 5now w.at we do not 5now':t.at is a t.eme +2on w.i-. " am ready to 3i1.t, in word and deed, to t.e +tmost o3 my 2ower* Men* T.ere a1ain, So-rates, yo+r words seem to me e<-ellent* So-* T.en, as we are a1reed t.at a man s.o+ld en0+ire abo+t t.at w.i-. .e does not 5now, s.all yo+ and " ma5e an e33ort to en0+ire to1et.er into t.e nat+re o3 /irt+e4 Men* By all means, So-rates* #nd yet " wo+ld m+-. rat.er ret+rn to my ori1inal 0+estion, ;.et.er in see5in1 to a-0+ire /irt+e we s.o+ld re1ard it as a t.in1 to be ta+1.t, or as a 1i3t o3 nat+re, or as -omin1 to men in some ot.er way4 So-* ad " t.e -ommand o3 yo+ as well as o3 mysel3, Meno, " wo+ld not .a/e en0+ired w.et.er /irt+e is 1i/en by instr+-tion or not, +ntil we .ad 3irst as-ertained 9w.at it is*9 B+t as yo+ t.in5 only o3 -ontrollin1 me w.o am yo+r sla/e, and ne/er o3 -ontrollin1 yo+rsel3,:s+-. bein1 yo+r notion o3 3reedom, " m+st yield to yo+, 3or yo+ are irresistible* #nd t.ere3ore " .a/e now to en0+ire into t.e 0+alities o3 a t.in1 o3 w.i-. " do not as yet 5now t.e nat+re* #t any rate, will yo+ -ondes-end a little, and allow t.e 0+estion 9;.et.er /irt+e is 1i/en by instr+-tion, or in any ot.er way,9 to be ar1+ed +2on .y2ot.esis4 #s t.e 1eometri-ian, w.en .e is as5ed w.et.er a -ertain trian1le is -a2able bein1 ins-ribed in a -ertain -ir-le, will re2ly8 9" -annot tell yo+ as yet' b+t " will o33er a .y2ot.esis w.i-. may assist +s in 3ormin1 a -on-l+sion8 "3 t.e 3i1+re be s+-. t.at w.en yo+ .a/e 2rod+-ed a 1i/en side o3 it, t.e 1i/en area o3 t.e trian1le 3alls s.ort by an area -orres2ondin1 to t.e 2art 2rod+-ed, t.en one -onse0+en-e 3ollows, and i3 t.is is im2ossible t.en some ot.er' and t.ere3ore " wis. to ass+me a .y2ot.esis be3ore " tell yo+ w.et.er t.is trian1le is -a2able o3 bein1 ins-ribed in t.e -ir-le98:t.at is a 1eometri-al .y2ot.esis* #nd we too, as we 5now not t.e nat+re and :0+alities o3 /irt+e, m+st as5, w.et.er /irt+e is or not ta+1.t, +nder a .y2ot.esis8 as t.+s, i3 /irt+e is o3 s+-.

a -lass o3 mental 1oods, will it be ta+1.t or not4 $et t.e 3irst .y2ot.esis be:t.at /irt+e is or is not 5nowled1e,:in t.at -ase will it be ta+1.t or not4 or, as we were j+st now sayin1, remembered94 For t.ere is no +se in dis2+tin1 abo+t t.e name* B+t is /irt+e ta+1.t or not4 or rat.er, does not e/eryone see t.at 5nowled1e alone is ta+1.t4 Men* " a1ree* So-* T.en i3 /irt+e is 5nowled1e, /irt+e will be ta+1.t4 Men* Certainly* So-* T.en now we .a/e made a 0+i-5 end o3 t.is 0+estion8 i3 /irt+e is o3 s+-. a nat+re, it will be ta+1.t' and i3 not, not4 Men* Certainly* So-* T.e ne<t 0+estion is, w.et.er /irt+e is 5nowled1e or o3 anot.er s2e-ies4 Men* )es, t.at a22ears to be t.e :0+estion w.i-. -omes ne<t in order* So-* !o we not say t.at /irt+e is a 1ood4:T.is is a .y2ot.esis w.i-. is not set aside* Men* Certainly* So-* Now, i3 t.ere be any sort:o3 1ood w.i-. is distin-t 3rom 5nowled1e, /irt+e may be t.at 1ood' b+t i3 5nowled1e embra-es all 1ood, t.en we s.all be ri1.t in t.in5 in t.at /irt+e is 5nowled1e4 Men* Tr+e* So-* #nd /irt+e ma5es +s 1ood4 Men* )es* So-* #nd i3 we are 1ood, t.en we are 2ro3itable' 3or all 1ood t.in1s are 2ro3itable4 Men* )es* So-* T.en /irt+e is 2ro3itable4 Men* T.at is t.e only in3eren-e* So-* T.en now let +s see w.at are t.e t.in1s w.i-. se/erally 2ro3it +s* ealt. and stren1t., and bea+ty and wealt.:t.ese, and t.e li5e o3 t.ese, we -all 2ro3itable4 Men* Tr+e* So-* #nd yet t.ese t.in1s may also sometimes do +s .arm8 wo+ld yo+ not t.in5 so4 Men* )es* So-* #nd w.at is t.e 1+idin1 2rin-i2le w.i-. ma5es t.em 2ro3itable or t.e re/erse4 #re t.ey not 2ro3itable w.en t.ey are ri1.tly +sed, and .+rt3+l w.en t.ey are not ri1.tly +sed4 Men* Certainly* So-* Ne<t, let +s -onsider t.e 1oods o3 t.e so+l8 t.ey are tem2eran-e, j+sti-e, -o+ra1e, 0+i-5ness o3 a22re.ension, memory, ma1nanimity, and t.e li5e4 Men* S+rely* So-* #nd s+-. o3 t.ese as are not 5nowled1e, b+t o3 anot.er sort, are sometimes 2ro3itable and sometimes .+rt3+l' as, 3or e<am2le, -o+ra1e wantin1 2r+den-e, w.i-. is only a sort o3 -on3iden-e4 ;.en a man .as no sense .e is .armed by -o+ra1e, b+t w.en .e .as sense .e is 2ro3ited4 Men* Tr+e* So-* #nd t.e same may be said o3 tem2eran-e and 0+i-5ness o3 a22re.ension' w.ate/er t.in1s are learned or done wit. sense are 2ro3itable, b+t w.en done wit.o+t sense t.ey are .+rt3+l4 Men* (ery tr+e* So-* #nd in 1eneral, all t.at t.e attem2ts or end+res, w.en +nder t.e 1+idan-e o3 wisdom, ends in .a22iness' b+t w.en s.e is +nder t.e 1+idan-e o3 3olly, in t.e o22osite4 Men* T.at a22ears to be tr+e* So-* "3 t.en /irt+e is a 0+ality o3 t.e so+l, and is admitted to be 2ro3itable, it m+st be wisdom or 2r+den-e, sin-e none o3 t.e t.in1s o3 t.e so+l are eit.er 2ro3itable or .+rt3+l in t.emsel/es, b+t t.ey are all made 2ro3itable or .+rt3+l by t.e addition o3 wisdom or o3 3olly' and t.ere3ore and t.ere3ore i3 /irt+e is 2ro3itable, /irt+e m+st be a sort o3 wisdom or 2r+den-e4

Men* " 0+ite a1ree* So-* #nd t.e ot.er 1oods, s+-. as wealt. and t.e li5e, o3 w.i-. we were j+st now sayin1 t.at t.ey are sometimes 1ood and sometimes e/il, do not t.ey also be-ome 2ro3itable or .+rt3+l, a--ordin1ly as t.e so+l 1+ides and +ses t.em ri1.tly or wron1ly' j+st as t.e t.in1s o3 t.e so+l .ersel3 are bene3ited w.en +nder t.e 1+idan-e o3 wisdom and .armed by 3olly4 Men* Tr+e* So-* #nd t.e wise so+l 1+ides t.em ri1.tly, and t.e 3oolis. so+l wron1ly* Men* )es* So-* #nd is not t.is +ni/ersally tr+e o3 .+man nat+re4 #ll ot.er t.in1s .an1 +2on t.e so+l, and t.e t.in1s o3 t.e so+l .ersel3 .an1 +2on wisdom, i3 t.ey are to be 1ood' and so wisdom is in3erred to be t.at w.i-. 2ro3its:and /irt+e, as we say, is 2ro3itable4 Men* Certainly* So-* #nd t.+s we arri/e at t.e -on-l+sion t.at /irt+e is eit.er w.olly or 2artly wisdom4 Men* " t.in5 t.at w.at yo+ are sayin1, So-rates, is /ery tr+e* So-* B+t i3 t.is is tr+e, t.en t.e 1ood are not by nat+re 1ood4 Men* " t.in5 not* So-* "3 t.ey .ad been, t.ere wo+ld ass+redly .a/e been dis-erners o3 -.ara-ters amon1 +s w.o wo+ld .a/e 5nown o+r 3+t+re 1reat men' and on t.eir s.owin1 we s.o+ld .a/e ado2ted t.em, and w.en we .ad 1ot t.em, we s.o+ld .a/e 5e2t t.em in t.e -itadel o+t o3 t.e way o3 .arm, and set a stam2 +2on t.em 3ar rat.er t.an +2on a 2ie-e o3 1old, in order t.at no one mi1.t tam2er wit. t.em' and w.en t.ey 1rew +2 t.ey wo+ld .a/e been +se3+l to t.e state4 Men* )es, So-rates, t.at wo+ld .a/e been t.e ri1.t way* So-* B+t i3 t.e 1ood are not by nat+re 1ood, are t.ey made 1ood by instr+-tion4 Men* T.ere a22ears to be no ot.er alternati/e, So-rates* On t.e s+22osition t.at /irt+e is 5nowled1e, t.ere -an be no do+bt t.at /irt+e is ta+1.t* So-* )es, indeed' b+t w.at i3 t.e s+22osition is erroneo+s4 Men* " -ertainly t.o+1.t j+st now t.at we were ri1.t* So-* )es, Meno' b+t a 2rin-i2le w.i-. .as any so+ndness s.o+ld stand 3irm not only j+st now, b+t always* Men* ;ell' and w.y are yo+ so slow o3 .eart to belie/e t.at 5nowled1e is /irt+e4 So-* " will try and tell yo+ w.y, Meno* " do not retra-t t.e assertion t.at i3 /irt+e is 5nowled1e it may be ta+1.t' b+t " 3ear t.at " .a/e some reason in do+btin1 w.et.er /irt+e is 5nowled1e8 3or -onsider now* and say w.et.er /irt+e, and not only /irt+e b+t anyt.in1 t.at is ta+1.t, m+st not .a/e tea-.ers and dis-i2les4 Men* S+rely* So-* #nd -on/ersely, may not t.e art o3 w.i-. neit.er tea-.ers nor dis-i2les e<ist be ass+med to be in-a2able o3 bein1 ta+1.t4 Men* Tr+e' b+t do yo+ t.in5 t.at t.ere are no tea-.ers o3 /irt+e4 So-* " .a/e -ertainly o3ten en0+ired w.et.er t.ere were any, and ta5en 1reat 2ains to 3ind t.em, and .a/e ne/er s+--eeded' and many .a/e assisted me in t.e sear-., and t.ey were t.e 2ersons w.om " t.o+1.t t.e most li5ely to 5now* ere at t.e moment w.en .e is wanted we 3ort+nately .a/e sittin1 by +s #nyt+s, t.e /ery 2erson o3 w.om we s.o+ld ma5e en0+iry' to .im t.en let +s re2air* "n t.e 3irst Pla-e, .e is t.e son o3 a wealt.y and wise 3at.er, #nt.emion, w.o a-0+ired .is wealt., not by a--ident or 1i3t, li5e "smenias t.e T.eban ?w.o .as re-ently made .imsel3 as ri-. as Poly-rates@, b+t by .is own s5ill and ind+stry, and w.o is a well:-onditioned, modest man, not insolent, or o/er:bearin1, or annoyin1' moreo/er, t.is son o3 .is .as re-ei/ed a 1ood ed+-ation, as t.e #t.enian 2eo2le -ertainly a22ear to t.in5, 3or t.ey -.oose .im to 3ill t.e .i1.est o33i-es* #nd t.ese are t.e sort o3 men 3rom w.om yo+ are li5ely to learn w.et.er t.ere are any tea-.ers o3 /irt+e, and w.o t.ey are* Please, #nyt+s, to

.el2 me and yo+r 3riend Meno in answerin1 o+r 0+estion, ;.o are t.e tea-.ers4 Consider t.e matter t.+s8 "3 we wanted Meno to be a 1ood 2.ysi-ian, to w.om s.o+ld we send .im4 S.o+ld we not send .im to t.e 2.ysi-ians4 #ny* Certainly* So-* Or i3 we wanted .im to be a 1ood -obbler, s.o+ld we not send .im to t.e -obblers4 #ny* )es* So-* #nd so 3ort.4 #ny* )es* So-* $et me tro+ble yo+ wit. one more 0+estion* ;.en we say t.at we s.o+ld be ri1.t in sendin1 .im to t.e 2.ysi-ians i3 we wanted .im to be a 2.ysi-ian, do we mean t.at we s.o+ld be ri1.t in sendin1 .im to t.ose w.o 2ro3ess t.e art, rat.er t.an to t.ose w.o do not, and to t.ose w.o demand 2ayment 3or tea-.in1 t.e art, and 2ro3ess to tea-. it to any one w.o will -ome and learn4 #nd i3 t.ese were o+r reasons, s.o+ld we not be ri1.t in sendin1 .im4 #ny* )es* So-* #nd mi1.t not t.e same be said o3 3l+te:2layin1, and o3 t.e ot.er arts4 ;o+ld a man w.o wanted to ma5e anot.er a 3l+te:2layer re3+se to send .im to t.ose w.o 2ro3ess to tea-. t.e art 3or money, and be 2la1+in1 ot.er 2ersons to 1i/e .im instr+-tion, w.o are not 2ro3essed tea-.ers and w.o ne/er .ad a sin1le dis-i2le in t.at bran-. o3 5nowled1e w.i-. .e wis.es .im to a-0+ire:wo+ld not s+-. -ond+-t be t.e .ei1.t o3 3olly4 #ny* )es, by Ae+s, and o3 i1noran-e too* So-* (ery 1ood* #nd now yo+ are in a 2osition to ad/ise wit. me abo+t my 3riend Meno* e .as been tellin1 me, #nyt+s, t.at .e desires to attain t.at 5ind o3 wisdom and:/irt+e by w.i-. men order t.e state or t.e .o+se, and .ono+r t.eir 2arents, and 5now w.en to re-ei/e and w.en to send away -iti=ens and stran1ers, as a 1ood man s.o+ld* Now, to w.om s.o+ld .e 1o in order t.at .e may learn t.is /irt+e4 !oes not t.e 2re/io+s ar1+ment im2ly -learly t.at we s.o+ld send .im to t.ose w.o 2ro3ess and a/o+-. t.at t.ey are t.e -ommon tea-.ers o3 all ellas, and are ready to im2art instr+-tion to any one w.o li5es, at a 3i<ed 2ri-e4 #ny* ;.om do yo+ mean, So-rates4 So-* )o+ s+rely 5now, do yo+ not, #nyt+s, t.at t.ese are t.e 2eo2le w.om man5ind -all So2.ists4 #ny* By era-les, So-rates, 3orbear7 " only .o2e t.at no 3riend or 5insman or a-0+aintan-e o3 mine, w.et.er -iti=en or stran1er, will e/er be so mad as to allow .imsel3 to be -orr+2ted by t.em' 3or t.ey are a mani3est 2est and -orr+2tin1 in3l+en-es to t.ose w.o .a/e to do wit. t.em* So-* ;.at, #nyt+s4 O3 all t.e 2eo2le w.o 2ro3ess t.at t.ey 5now .ow to do men 1ood, do yo+ mean to say t.at t.ese are t.e only ones w.o not only do t.em no 1ood, b+t 2ositi/ely -orr+2t t.ose w.o are entr+sted to t.em, and in ret+rn 3or t.is disser/i-e .a/e t.e 3a-e to demand money4 "ndeed, " -annot belie/e yo+' 3or " 5now o3 a sin1le man, Prota1oras, w.o made more o+t o3 .is -ra3t t.an t.e ill+strio+s P.eidias, w.o -reated s+-. noble wor5s, or any ten ot.er stat+aries* ow -o+ld t.at # mender o3 old s.oes, or 2at-.er +2 o3 -lot.es, w.o made t.e s.oes or -lot.es worse t.an .e re-ei/ed t.em, -o+ld not .a/e remained t.irty days +ndete-ted, and wo+ld /ery soon .a/e star/ed' w.ereas d+rin1 more t.an 3orty years, Prota1oras was -orr+2tin1 all ellas, and sendin1 .is dis-i2les 3rom .im worse t.an .e re-ei/ed t.em, and .e was ne/er 3o+nd o+t* For, i3 " am not mista5en,:.e was abo+t se/enty years old at .is deat., 3orty o3 w.i-. were s2ent in t.e 2ra-ti-e o3 .is 2ro3ession' and d+rin1 all t.at time .e .ad a 1ood re2+tation, w.i-. to t.is day .e retains8 and not only Prota1oras, b+t many ot.ers are well s2o5en o3' some w.o li/ed be3ore .im, and ot.ers w.o are still li/in1* Now, w.en yo+ say t.at t.ey de-ei/ed and -orr+2ted t.e yo+t., are t.ey to be s+22osed to .a/e -orr+2ted t.em -ons-io+sly or +n-ons-io+sly4 Can

t.ose w.o were deemed by many to be t.e wisest men o3 ellas .a/e been o+t o3 t.eir minds4 #ny* O+t o3 t.eir minds7 No, So-rates' t.e yo+n1 men w.o 1a/e t.eir money to t.em, were o+t o3 t.eir minds, and t.eir relations and 1+ardians w.o entr+sted t.eir yo+t. to t.e -are o3 t.ese men were still more o+t o3 t.eir minds, and most o3 all, t.e -ities w.o allowed t.em to -ome in, and did not dri/e t.em o+t, -iti=en and stran1er ali5e* So-* as any o3 t.e So2.ists wron1ed yo+, #nyt+s4 ;.at ma5es yo+ so an1ry wit. t.em4 #ny* No, indeed, neit.er " nor any o3 my belon1in1s .as e/er .ad, nor wo+ld " s+33er t.em to .a/e, anyt.in1 to do wit. t.em* So-* T.en yo+ are entirely +na-0+ainted wit. t.em4 #ny* #nd " .a/e no wis. to be a-0+ainted* So-* T.en, my dear 3riend, .ow -an yo+ 5now w.et.er a t.in1 is 1ood or bad o3 w.i-. yo+ are w.olly i1norant4 #ny* >+ite well' " am s+re t.at " 5now w.at manner o3 men t.ese are, w.et.er " am a-0+ainted wit. t.em or not* So-* )o+ m+st be a di/iner, #nyt+s, 3or " really -annot ma5e o+t, j+d1in1 3rom yo+r own words, .ow, i3 yo+ are not a-0+ainted wit. t.em, yo+ 5now abo+t t.em* B+t " am not en0+irin1 o3 yo+ w.o are t.e tea-.ers w.o will -orr+2t Meno ?let t.em be, i3 yo+ 2lease, t.e So2.ists@' " only as5 yo+ to tell .im w.o t.ere is in t.is 1reat -ity w.o will tea-. .im .ow to be-ome eminent in t.e /irt+es w.i-. " was j+st, now des-ribin1* e is t.e 3riend o3 yo+r 3amily, and yo+ will obli1e .im* #ny* ;.y do yo+ not tell .im yo+rsel34 So-* " .a/e told .im w.om " s+22osed to be t.e tea-.ers o3 t.ese t.in1s' b+t " learn 3rom yo+ t.at " am +tterly at 3a+lt, and " dare say t.at yo+ are ri1.t* #nd now " wis. t.at yo+, on yo+r 2art, wo+ld tell me to w.om amon1 t.e #t.enians .e s.o+ld 1o* ;.om wo+ld yo+ name4 #ny* ;.y sin1le o+t indi/id+als4 #ny #t.enian 1entleman, ta5en at random, i3 .e will mind .im, will do 3ar more, 1ood to .im t.an t.e So2.ists* So-* #nd did t.ose 1entlemen 1row o3 t.emsel/es' and wit.o+t .a/in1 been ta+1.t by any one, were t.ey ne/ert.eless able to tea-. ot.ers t.at w.i-. t.ey .ad ne/er learned t.emsel/es4 #ny* " ima1ine t.at t.ey learned o3 t.e 2re/io+s 1eneration o3 1entlemen* a/e t.ere not been many 1ood men in t.is -ity4 So-* )es, -ertainly, #nyt+s' and many 1ood statesmen also t.ere always .a/e been and t.ere are still, in t.e -ity o3 #t.ens* B+t t.e 0+estion is w.et.er t.ey were also 1ood tea-.ers o3 t.eir own /irt+e':not w.et.er t.ere are, or .a/e been, 1ood men in t.is 2art o3 t.e world, b+t w.et.er /irt+e -an be ta+1.t, is t.e 0+estion w.i-. we .a/e been dis-+ssin1* Now, do we mean to say t.at t.e 1ood men o+r own and o3 ot.er times 5new .ow to im2art to ot.ers t.at /irt+e w.i-. t.ey .ad t.emsel/es' or is /irt+e a t.in1 in-a2able o3 bein1 -omm+ni-ated or im2arted by one man to anot.er4 T.at is t.e 0+estion w.i-. " and Meno .a/e been ar1+in1* $oo5 at t.e matter in yo+r own way8 ;o+ld yo+ not admit t.at T.emisto-les was a 1ood man4 #ny* Certainly' no man better* So-* #nd m+st not .e t.en .a/e been a 1ood tea-.er, i3 any man e/er was a 1ood tea-.er, o3 .is own /irt+e4 #ny* )es -ertainly,:i3 .e wanted to be so* So-* B+t wo+ld .e not .a/e wanted4 e wo+ld, at any rate, .a/e desired to ma5e .is own son a 1ood man and a 1entleman' .e -o+ld not .a/e been jealo+s o3 .im, or .a/e intentionally abstained 3rom im2artin1 to .im .is own /irt+e* !id yo+ ne/er .ear t.at .e made .is son Cleo2.ant+s a 3amo+s .orseman' and .ad .im ta+1.t to stand +2ri1.t on .orseba-5 and .+rl a ja/elin, and to do many ot.er mar/ello+s t.in1s' and in anyt.in1 w.i-. -o+ld be learned 3rom a master .e was well trained4 a/e yo+ not .eard 3rom o+r elders o3 .im4 #ny* " .a/e* So-* T.en no one -o+ld say t.at .is son s.owed any want o3 -a2a-ity4

#ny* (ery li5ely not* So-* B+t did any one, old or yo+n1, e/er say in yo+r .earin1 t.at Cleo2.ant+s, son o3 T.emisto-les, was a wise or 1ood man, as .is 3at.er was4 #ny* " .a/e -ertainly ne/er .eard any one say so* So-* #nd i3 /irt+e -o+ld .a/e been ta+1.t, wo+ld .is 3at.er T.emisto-les .a/e so+1.t to train .im in t.ese minor a--om2lis.ments, and allowed .im w.o, as yo+ m+st remember, was .is own son, to be no better t.an .is nei1.bo+rs in t.ose 0+alities in w.i-. .e .imsel3 e<-elled4 #ny* "ndeed, indeed, " t.in5 not* So-* ere was a tea-.er o3 /irt+e w.om yo+ admit to be amon1 t.e best men o3 t.e 2ast* $et +s ta5e anot.er,:#ristides, t.e son o3 $ysima-.+s8 wo+ld yo+ not a-5nowled1e t.at .e was a 1ood man4 #ny* To be s+re " s.o+ld* So-* #nd did not .e train .is son $ysima-.+s better t.an any ot.er #t.enian in all t.at -o+ld be done 3or .im by t.e .el2 o3 masters4 B+t w.at .as been t.e res+lt4 "s .e a bit better t.an any ot.er mortal4 e is an a-0+aintan-e o3 yo+rs, and yo+ see w.at .e is li5e* T.ere is Peri-les, a1ain, ma1ni3i-ent in .is wisdom' and .e, as yo+ are aware, .ad two sons, Paral+s and Bant.i22+s* #ny* " 5now* So-* #nd yo+ 5now, also, t.at .e ta+1.t t.em to be +nri/alled .orsemen, and .ad t.em trained in m+si- and 1ymnasti-s and all sorts o3 arts:in t.ese res2e-ts t.ey were on a le/el wit. t.e best:and .ad .e no wis. to ma5e 1ood men o3 t.em4 Nay, .e m+st .a/e wis.ed it* B+t /irt+e, as " s+s2e-t, -o+ld not be ta+1.t* #nd t.at yo+ may not s+22ose t.e in-om2etent tea-.ers to be only t.e meaner sort o3 #t.enians and 3ew in n+mber, remember a1ain t.at T.+-ydides .ad two sons, Melesias and Ste2.an+s, w.om, besides 1i/in1 t.em a 1ood ed+-ation in ot.er t.in1s, .e trained in wrestlin1, and t.ey were t.e best wrestlers in #t.ens8 one o3 t.em .e -ommitted to t.e -are o3 Bant.ias, and t.e ot.er o3 E+dor+s, w.o .ad t.e re2+tation o3 bein1 t.e most -elebrated wrestlers o3 t.at day* !o yo+ remember t.em4 #ny* " .a/e .eard o3 t.em* So-* Now, -an t.ere be a do+bt t.at T.+-ydides, w.ose -.ildren were ta+1.t t.in1s 3or w.i-. .e .ad to s2end money, wo+ld .a/e ta+1.t t.em to be 1ood men, w.i-. wo+ld .a/e -ost .im not.in1, i3 /irt+e -o+ld .a/e been ta+1.t4 ;ill yo+ re2ly t.at .e was a mean man, and .ad not many 3riends amon1 t.e #t.enians and allies4 Nay, b+t .e was o3 a 1reat 3amily, and a man o3 in3l+en-e at #t.ens and in all ellas, and, i3 /irt+e -o+ld .a/e been ta+1.t, .e wo+ld .a/e 3o+nd o+t some #t.enian or 3orei1ner w.o wo+ld .a/e made 1ood men o3 .is sons, i3 .e -o+ld not .imsel3 s2are t.e time 3rom -ares o3 state* On-e more, " s+s2e-t, 3riend #nyt+s, t.at /irt+e is not a t.in1 w.i-. -an be ta+1.t4 #ny* So-rates, " t.in5 t.at yo+ are too ready to s2ea5 e/il o3 men8 and, i3 yo+ will ta5e my ad/i-e, " wo+ld re-ommend yo+ to be -are3+l* Per.a2s t.ere is no -ity in w.i-. it is not easier to do men .arm t.an to do t.em 1ood, and t.is is -ertainly t.e -ase at #t.ens, as " belie/e t.at yo+ 5now* So-* O Meno, t.in5 t.at #nyt+s is in a ra1e* #nd .e may well be in a ra1e, 3or .e t.in5s, in t.e 3irst 2la-e, t.at " am de3amin1 t.ese 1entlemen' and in t.e se-ond 2la-e, .e is o3 o2inion t.at .e is one o3 t.em .imsel3* B+t some day .e will 5now w.at is t.e meanin1 o3 de3amation, and i3 .e e/er does, .e will 3or1i/e me* Meanw.ile " will ret+rn to yo+, Meno' 3or " s+22ose t.at t.ere are 1entlemen in yo+r re1ion too4 Men* Certainly t.ere are* So-* #nd are t.ey willin1 to tea-. t.e yo+n14 and do t.ey 2ro3ess to be tea-.ers4 and do t.ey a1ree t.at /irt+e is ta+1.t4 Men* No indeed, So-rates, t.ey are anyt.in1 b+t a1reed' yo+ may .ear t.em sayin1 at one time t.at /irt+e -an be ta+1.t, and t.en a1ain t.e re/erse*

So-* Can we -all t.ose tea-.ers w.o do not a-5nowled1e t.e 2ossibility o3 t.eir own /o-ation4 Men* " t.in5 not, So-rates* So-* #nd w.at do yo+ t.in5 o3 t.ese So2.ists, w.o are t.e only 2ro3essors4 !o t.ey seem to yo+ to be tea-.ers o3 /irt+e4 Men* " o3ten wonder, So-rates, t.at %or1ias is ne/er .eard 2romisin1 to tea-. /irt+e8 and w.en .e .ears ot.ers 2romisin1 .e only la+1.s at t.em' b+t .e t.in5s t.at men s.o+ld be ta+1.t to s2ea5* So-* T.en do yo+ not t.in5 t.at t.e So2.ists are tea-.ers4 Men* " -annot tell yo+, So-rates' li5e t.e rest o3 t.e world, " am in do+bt, and sometimes " t.in5 t.at t.ey are tea-.ers and sometimes not* So-* #nd are yo+ aware t.at not yo+ only and ot.er 2oliti-ians .a/e do+bts w.et.er /irt+e -an be ta+1.t or not, b+t t.at T.eo1nis t.e 2oet says t.e /ery same t.in14 Men* ;.ere does .e say so4 So-* "n t.ese ele1ia- /erses8 Eat and drin5 and sit wit. t.e mi1.ty, and ma5e yo+rsel3 a1reeable to t.em' 3or 3rom t.e 1ood yo+ will learn w.at is 1ood, b+t i3 yo+ mi< wit. t.e bad yo+ will lose t.e intelli1en-e w.i-. yo+ already .a/e* !o yo+ obser/e t.at .ere .e seems to im2ly t.at /irt+e -an be ta+1.t4 Men* Clearly* So-* B+t in some ot.er /erses .e s.i3ts abo+t and says8 "3 +nderstandin1 -o+ld be -reated and 2+t into a man, t.en t.ey Cw.o were able to 2er3orm t.is 3eatD wo+ld .a/e obtained 1reat rewards* #nd a1ain8: Ne/er wo+ld a bad son .a/e s2r+n1 3rom a 1ood sire, 3or .e wo+ld .a/e .eard t.e /oi-e o3 instr+-tion' b+t not by tea-.in1 will yo+ e/er ma5e a bad man into a 1ood one* #nd t.is, as yo+ may remar5, is a -ontradi-tion o3 t.e ot.er* Men* Clearly* So-* #nd is t.ere anyt.in1 else o3 w.i-. t.e 2ro3essors are a33irmed not only not to be tea-.ers o3 ot.ers, b+t to be i1norant t.emsel/es, and bad at t.e 5nowled1e o3 t.at w.i-. t.ey are 2ro3essin1 to tea-.4 or is t.ere anyt.in1 abo+t w.i-. e/en t.e a-5nowled1ed 91entlemen9 are sometimes sayin1 t.at 9t.is t.in1 -an be ta+1.t,9 and sometimes t.e o22osite4 Can yo+ say t.at t.ey are tea-.ers in any tr+e sense w.ose ideas are in s+-. -on3+sion4 Men* " s.o+ld say, -ertainly not* So-* B+t i3 neit.er t.e So2.ists nor t.e 1entlemen are tea-.ers, -learly t.ere -an be no ot.er tea-.ers4 Men* No* So-* #nd i3 t.ere are no tea-.ers, neit.er are t.ere dis-i2les4 Men* #1reed* So-* #nd we .a/e admitted t.at a t.in1 -annot be ta+1.t o3 w.i-. t.ere are neit.er tea-.ers nor dis-i2les4 Men* ;e .a/e* So-* #nd t.ere are no tea-.ers o3 /irt+e to be 3o+nd anyw.ere4 Men* T.ere are not* So-* #nd i3 t.ere are no tea-.ers, neit.er are t.ere s-.olars4 Men* T.at, " t.in5, is tr+e* So-* T.en /irt+e -annot be ta+1.t4 Men* Not i3 we are ri1.t in o+r /iew* B+t " -annot belie/e, So-rates, t.at t.ere are no 1ood men8 #nd i3 t.ere are, .ow did t.ey -ome into e<isten-e4 So-* " am a3raid, Meno, t.at yo+ and " are not 1ood 3or m+-., and t.at %or1ias .as been as 2oor an ed+-ator o3 yo+ as Prodi-+s .as been o3 me* Certainly we s.all .a/e to loo5 to o+rsel/es, and try to

3ind some one w.o will .el2 in some way or ot.er to im2ro/e +s* T.is " say, be-a+se " obser/e t.at in t.e 2re/io+s dis-+ssion none o3 +s remar5ed t.at ri1.t and 1ood a-tion is 2ossible to man +nder ot.er 1+idan-e t.an t.at o3 5nowled1e ?e2isteme@':and indeed i3 t.is be denied, t.ere is no seein1 .ow t.ere -an be any 1ood men at all* Men* ow do yo+ mean, So-rates4 So-* " mean t.at 1ood men are ne-essarily +se3+l or 2ro3itable* ;ere we not ri1.t in admittin1 t.is4 "t m+st be so* Men* )es* So-* #nd in s+22osin1 t.at t.ey will be +se3+l only i3 t.ey are tr+e 1+ides to +s o3 a-tion:t.ere we were also ri1.t4 Men* )es* So-* B+t w.en we said t.at a man -annot be a 1ood 1+ide +nless .e .a/e 5nowled1e ?2.r.onesis@, t.is we were wron1* Men* ;.at do yo+ mean by t.e word 9ri1.t94 So-* " will e<2lain* "3 a man 5new t.e way to $arisa, or anyw.ere else, and went to t.e 2la-e and led ot.ers t.it.er, wo+ld .e not be a ri1.t and 1ood 1+ide4 Men* Certainly* So-* #nd a 2erson w.o .ad a ri1.t o2inion abo+t t.e way, b+t .ad ne/er been and did not 5now, mi1.t be a 1ood 1+ide also, mi1.t .e not4 Men* Certainly* So-* #nd w.ile .e .as tr+e o2inion abo+t t.at w.i-. t.e ot.er 5nows, .e will be j+st as 1ood a 1+ide i3 .e t.in5s t.e tr+t., as .e w.o 5nows t.e tr+t.4 Men* E<a-tly* So-* T.en tr+e o2inion is as 1ood a 1+ide to -orre-t a-tion as 5nowled1e' and t.at was t.e 2oint w.i-. we omitted in o+r s2e-+lation abo+t t.e nat+re o3 /irt+e, w.en we said t.at 5nowled1e only is t.e 1+ide o3 ri1.t a-tion' w.ereas t.ere is also ri1.t o2inion* Men* Tr+e* So-* T.en ri1.t o2inion is not less +se3+l t.an 5nowled1e4 Men* T.e di33eren-e, So-rates, is only t.at .e w.o .as 5nowled1e will always be ri1.t' b+t .e w.o .as ri1.t o2inion will sometimes be ri1.t, and sometimes not* So-* ;.at do yo+ mean4 Can .e be wron1 w.o .as ri1.t o2inion, so lon1 as .e .as ri1.t o2inion4 Men* " admit t.e -o1en-y o3 yo+r ar1+ment, and t.ere3ore, So-rates, " wonder t.at 5nowled1e s.o+ld be 2re3erred to ri1.t o2inion:or w.y t.ey s.o+ld e/er di33er* So-* #nd s.all " e<2lain t.is wonder to yo+4 Men* !o tell me* So-* )o+ wo+ld not wonder i3 yo+ .ad e/er obser/ed t.e ima1es o3 !aedal+s' b+t 2er.a2s yo+ .a/e not 1ot t.em in yo+r -o+ntry4 Men* ;.at .a/e t.ey to do wit. t.e 0+estion4 So-* Be-a+se t.ey re0+ire to be 3astened in order to 5ee2 t.em, and i3 t.ey are not 3astened t.ey will 2lay tr+ant and r+n away* Men* ;ell* w.at o3 t.at4 So-* " mean to say t.at t.ey are not /ery /al+able 2ossessions i3 t.ey are at liberty, 3or t.ey will wal5 o33 li5e r+naway sla/es' b+t w.en 3astened, t.ey are o3 1reat /al+e, 3or t.ey are really bea+ti3+l wor5s o3 art* Now t.is is an ill+stration o3 t.e nat+re o3 tr+e o2inions8 w.ile t.ey abide wit. +s t.ey are bea+ti3+l and 3r+it3+l, b+t t.ey r+n away o+t o3 t.e .+man so+l, and do not remain lon1, and t.ere3ore t.ey are not o3 m+-. /al+e +ntil t.ey are 3astened by t.e tie o3 t.e -a+se' and t.is 3astenin1 o3 t.em, 3riend Meno, is re-olle-tion, as yo+ and " .a/e a1reed to -all it* B+t w.en t.ey are bo+nd, in t.e 3irst 2la-e, t.ey .a/e t.e nat+re o3 5nowled1e' and, in t.e se-ond 2la-e, t.ey are abidin1* #nd t.is is w.y 5nowled1e is more .ono+rable and e<-ellent t.an tr+e o2inion, be-a+se 3astened by a -.ain* Men* ;.at yo+ are sayin1, So-rates, seems to be /ery li5e t.e tr+t.* So-* " too s2ea5 rat.er in i1noran-e' " only -onje-t+re* #nd yet

t.at 5nowled1e di33ers 3rom tr+e o2inion is no matter o3 -onje-t+re wit. me* T.ere are not many t.in1s w.i-. " 2ro3ess to 5now, b+t t.is is most -ertainly one o3 t.em* Men* )es, So-rates' and yo+ are 0+ite ri1.t in sayin1 so* So-* #nd am " not also ri1.t in sayin1 t.at tr+e o2inion leadin1 t.e way 2er3e-ts a-tion 0+ite as well as 5nowled1e4 Men* T.ere a1ain, So-rates, " t.in5 yo+ are ri1.t* So-* T.en ri1.t o2inion is not a w.it in3erior to 5nowled1e, or less +se3+l in a-tion' nor is t.e man w.o .as ri1.t o2inion in3erior to .im w.o .as 5nowled1e4 Men* Tr+e* So-* #nd s+rely t.e 1ood man .as been a-5nowled1ed by +s to be +se3+l4 Men* )es* So-* Seein1 t.en t.at men be-ome 1ood and +se3+l to states, not only be-a+se t.ey .a/e 5nowled1e, b+t be-a+se t.ey .a/e ri1.t o2inion, and t.at neit.er 5nowled1e nor ri1.t o2inion is 1i/en to man by nat+re or a-0+ired by .im:?do yo+ ima1ine eit.er o3 t.em to be 1i/en by nat+re4 Men* Not "*@ So-* T.en i3 t.ey are not 1i/en by nat+re, neit.er are t.e 1ood by nat+re 1ood4 Men* Certainly not* So-* #nd nat+re bein1 e<-l+ded, t.en -ame t.e 0+estion w.et.er /irt+e is a-0+ired by tea-.in14 Men* )es* So-* "3 /irt+e was wisdom Cor 5nowled1eD, t.en, as we t.o+1.t, it was ta+1.t4 Men* )es* So-* #nd i3 it was ta+1.t it was wisdom4 Men* Certainly* So-* #nd i3 t.ere were tea-.ers, it mi1.t be ta+1.t' and i3 t.ere were no tea-.ers, not4 Men* Tr+e* So-* B+t s+rely we a-5nowled1ed t.at t.ere were no tea-.ers o3 /irt+e4 Men* )es* So-* T.en we a-5nowled1ed t.at it was not ta+1.t, and was not wisdom4 Men* Certainly* So-* #nd yet we admitted t.at it was a 1ood4 Men* )es* So-* #nd t.e ri1.t 1+ide is +se3+l and 1ood4 Men* Certainly* So-* #nd t.e only ri1.t 1+ides are 5nowled1e and tr+e o2inion:t.ese are t.e 1+ides o3 man' 3or t.in1s w.i-. .a22en by -.an-e are not +nder t.e 1+idan-e o3 man8 b+t t.e 1+ides o3 man are tr+e o2inion and 5nowled1e* Men* " t.in5 so too* So-* B+t i3 /irt+e is not ta+1.t, neit.er is /irt+e 5nowled1e* Men* Clearly not* So-* T.en o3 two 1ood and +se3+l t.in1s, one, w.i-. is 5nowled1e, .as been set aside, and -annot be s+22osed to be o+r 1+ide in 2oliti-al li3e* Men* " t.in5 not* So-* #nd t.ere3ore not by any wisdom, and not be-a+se t.ey were wise, did T.emisto-les and t.ose ot.ers o3 w.om #nyt+s s2o5e 1o/ern states* T.is was t.e reason w.y t.ey were +nable to ma5e ot.ers li5e t.emsel/es:be-a+se t.eir /irt+e was not 1ro+nded on 5nowled1e* Men* T.at is 2robably tr+e, So-rates* So-* B+t i3 not by 5nowled1e, t.e only alternati/e w.i-. remains is t.at statesmen m+st .a/e 1+ided states by ri1.t o2inion, w.i-. is in 2oliti-s w.at di/ination is in reli1ion' 3or di/iners and also 2ro2.ets say many t.in1s tr+ly, b+t t.ey 5now not w.at t.ey say*

Men* So " belie/e* So-* #nd may we not, Meno, tr+ly -all t.ose men 9di/ine9 w.o, .a/in1 no +nderstandin1, yet s+--eed in many a 1rand deed and word4 Men* Certainly* So-* T.en we s.all also be ri1.t in -allin1 di/ine t.ose w.om we were j+st now s2ea5in1 o3 as di/iners and 2ro2.ets, in-l+din1 t.e w.ole tribe o3 2oets* )es, and statesmen abo/e all may be said to be di/ine and ill+mined, bein1 ins2ired and 2ossessed o3 %od, in w.i-. -ondition t.ey say many 1rand t.in1s, not 5nowin1 w.at t.ey say* Men* )es* So-* #nd t.e women too, Meno, -all 1ood men di/ine:do t.ey not4 and t.e S2artans, w.en t.ey 2raise a 1ood man, say 9t.at .e is a di/ine man*9 Men* #nd " t.in5, So-rates, t.at t.ey are ri1.t' alt.o+1. /ery li5ely o+r 3riend #nyt+s may ta5e o33en-e at t.e word* So-* " da not -are' as 3or #nyt+s, t.ere will be anot.er o22ort+nity o3 tal5in1 wit. .im* To s+m +2 o+r en0+iry:t.e res+lt seems to be, i3 we are at all ri1.t in o+r /iew, t.at /irt+e is neit.er nat+ral nor a-0+ired, b+t an instin-t 1i/en by %od to t.e /irt+o+s* Nor is t.e instin-t a--om2anied by reason, +nless t.ere may be s+22osed to be amon1 statesmen some one w.o is -a2able o3 ed+-atin1 statesmen* #nd i3 t.ere be s+-. an one, .e may be said to be amon1 t.e li/in1 w.at omer says t.at Tiresias was amon1 t.e dead, 9.e alone .as +nderstandin1' b+t t.e rest are 3littin1 s.ades9' and .e and .is /irt+e in li5e manner will be a reality amon1 s.adows* Men* T.at is e<-ellent, So-rates* So-* T.en, Meno, t.e -on-l+sion is t.at /irt+e -omes to t.e /irt+o+s by t.e 1i3t o3 %od* B+t we s.all ne/er 5now t.e -ertain tr+t. +ntil, be3ore as5in1 .ow /irt+e is 1i/en, we en0+ire into t.e a-t+al nat+re o3 /irt+e* " 3ear t.at " m+st 1o away, b+t do yo+, now t.at yo+ are 2ers+aded yo+rsel3, 2ers+ade o+r 3riend #nyt+s* #nd do not let .im be so e<as2erated' i3 yo+ -an -on-iliate .im, yo+ will .a/e done 1ood ser/i-e to t.e #t.enian 2eo2le* :T E EN!: *