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Helen Dalley: History was obviously made this week with Julia Gillard becoming
Australia¶s first female PM. But in a way how far away are we from the point where it¶s
not that remarkable that a woman can be a minister or even a prime minister?

Sarah Hanson-Young: Well look, I think people around the country were celebrating the
fact that we finally have a first woman prime minister, and I think the Greens along with
many others were raising glasses to that prospect. But of course the interesting thing
about it is of course she was the best person for the job. In some ways I guess that
really indicates that we have moved so far. There was never a second thought that if it
wasn¶t Kevin Rudd, then who it should be. Everyone knew that it was going to be Julia
Gillard at some stage, and it just seems to have happened quicker than any of us had
anticipated. I think in essence, it¶s quite a remarkable thing that now young girls and
young women around the country can be looking up and thinking, you know what, I can¶t
just possibly think of myself as being in parliament, whether it be a local member or a
senator indeed, but being able to make it all the way to prime minister. I think that is
exciting and something that we do need to acknowledge as historical.

Helen Dalley: So you don¶t think there might be a few of these unreconstructed blokes,
perhaps the factional leaders who think that they will now run things; they put her in
there, they may control her in some way?

Sarah Hanson-Young: It¶ll be interesting to see how that rolls out. Of course what will
be the test is the policy positions. Of course Julia Gillard needs to make some changes,
because we know that one of the big downfalls for Kevin Rudd of course was delaying
the ETS until 2013 and not wanting to take any action on climate change. Will Julia
Gillard change that pathway and act now, work with the Greens to do that? Will we
indeed start to see some changes in terms of mental health funding or childcare
support? A new narrative on asylum seekers and refugees? These are the things now
that Julia Gillard needs to make some decisions on.

Helen Dalley: Do you think she¶ll be making them by herself or will those factional
leaders be there pushing her from behind?

Sarah Hanson-Young: I¶d hope that there is a sense that she is listening to the
community and therefore being able to represent her community, and not just at the
whim of those right wing faction warlords, because that will be the downfall of her prime
ministership if that is the case. I hope that isn¶t. I hope she is able to represent a fresh,
new approach to things and to ensure that we do have an office of prime ministership
that really represents the needs in the community, but is able to listen to the community
as well. I think that was the downfall of Kevin Rudd, particularly on climate change when
he decided to dump the ETS.

Helen Dalley: Do you think she is a better listener?

Sarah Hanson-Young: I think time will tell. We really need to see her approach to those
key issues. Are we going to find a way of bringing troops back home from Afghanistan?
Do we start to see an injection of funding into mental health, which the Greens have
been calling for, and indeed the Australian of the Year is again saying in the papers


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today? These are the types of issues that she will be able to prove herself on, that she¶s
listening to the community and not just listening to the factions.

Helen Dalley: Have you been able to catch your breath, all of you who were in
parliament last week? It was extraordinary, the speed at which the execution was done.
How did you feel about the brutality really of ousting a sitting prime minister in first term?

Sarah Hanson-Young: I think the last days of the week back in Canberra were quite
surreal, and it did happen fast. I think a lot of people were questioning the brutal nature
of it, as you put it. The fact that there seemed to be such denial that there was going to
be a shift, and then all of a sudden within less than 12 hours that shift had happened. I
think we all, as I said, celebrate the fact that we have the first woman prime minister, but
I¶m sure even Julia Gillard would¶ve liked it to have happened under different
circumstances.

Helen Dalley: One of the big issues as you pointed out that Prime Minister Gillard must
tackle, is climate change policy. For a start, do you think she will talk to the Greens
which you always complained that Kevin Rudd didn¶t do?

Sarah Hanson-Young: I hope so. Early indications are that she will talk to the Greens,
and indeed make a better effort to understand how the senate works. We have a carbon
tax proposal ready to go. We need to be acting on climate change. Let¶s start
negotiating with the prime minister and not continue down that fateful past of Kevin Rudd
where he wanted to delay any type of action. We don¶t need to do that. We could be
introducing a carbon tax now, and the prime minister, Julia Gillard, has an opportunity to
work constructively with the Greens in the senate to make sure that happens. Then if
we want to start talking about introducing an ETS into the future, then we can do that as
well. But let¶s actually start with trying to take action now, introduce a carbon tax, and
the Greens are more than willing to discuss with the new prime minister how we can go
about doing that.

Helen Dalley: Julia Gillard also argued for the ETS to be delayed, along with Kevin
Rudd. The word is that she pushed him to do that. Does she have any credibility on this
issue? And does she really need to spell out her policy before the next election?

Sarah Hanson-Young: I think she does need to spell out her policies before the next
election, that¶s an ultimate. She needs to make sure she¶s upfront and very clear with
the Australian people about what she will do if re-elected, and undoubtedly she will be
re-elected to the office of prime minister. It¶s interesting that people say that she was
involved in the delaying of the ETS. Of course she was one of the group of the kitchen
cabinet, as they say, and has to take responsibility for many of the decisions that were
made under Prime Minister Rudd at the time. But of course it was his undoing, the
delaying of the ETS. If Julia Gillard was smart about wanting to move forward and break
with the past, then she would have to move on climate change quickly, would need to
take action, and the best way we can do that now is to adopt a carbon tax and work with
the Greens to do that. Of course this is a proposal that was put forward by Professor
Garnaut, the government¶s own advisor on climate change. It makes sense. It¶s the
most logical step for a prime minister who wants to break with the past and move
forward on taking action on climate change. She says that she¶s a firm believer that we
need to do something ± well here¶s the opportunity.


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Helen Dalley: So you¶re saying if she pursues a carbon tax, perhaps as an interim
measure before prosecuting the case for an ETS again, would that be acceptable to
you?

Sarah Hanson-Young: Absolutely. That¶s exactly what needs to happen. We need to

be taking action now, introducing a carbon tax. The Greens working alongside with Julia
Gillard to do that would be the best possible outcome for taking action on climate change
today. I¶m up here in Queensland, in Brisbane this morning, and I was here last night
talking to people who really want to see some action on climate change. They of course
understand the effects, they understand what devastating damage this is doing to the
Great Barrier Reef. Here in Queensland people understand that we need to be taking
action, we can¶t continue to delay, and Julia Gillard has an opportunity. Let¶s not wait till
2013, let¶s act now. She can do that if she works with the Greens.

Helen Dalley: Another boat of 96 asylum seekers has been intercepted in recent hours.
This is a very tough policy for Labor. How does Julia Gillard treat asylum seekers
humanely in your view, without being painted as soft on border protection?

Sarah Hanson-Young: I think this is going to be a bit of a vexed issue for her, unless
she is able to be very clear and upfront with the Australian people that there is nothing to
fear from people who arrive by boat seeking protection from persecution. I must say, I
have been a little bit disappointed in her comments of late since she took over being the
prime minister. She said she understood why people were anxious and people were
fearful. Her job as the prime minister is to ensure that people are not fearing
unnecessarily, that there is no real reason to be fearful or anxious. These are people
who are desperate for protection, some of the world¶s most vulnerable people. We know
that the vast majority of people who arrive by boat seeking protection are the most
desperate refugees in the world, and the majority of them end up being legitimate
refugees who need our help and need our protection. It¶s her job as the prime minister
to be upfront and honest with the Australian people. There¶s nothing to fear, we do have
a process, it¶s an orderly process. We process people¶s claims, and to be able to move
forward. The best thing she can do to break with the past from Kevin Rudd and the
Howard era on management of refugees and that dog whistling to the more conservative
fear -mongers is to lift the suspension on Afghans and Sri Lankan asylum seeker claims,
and to send that message there is nothing to be fearful of, there¶s nothing to be anxious
about.

Helen Dalley: Sarah Hanson-Young, how likely is that, that lifting of the suspension of
those claims?

Sarah Hanson-Young: We have two weeks before the first three month suspension
period ends, that¶s for Sri Lankans, and it¶s an opportunity for Julia Gillard to break with
the past, say this suspension will not be extended, and of course start executing that
argument that we need to be showing compassion, justice and fairness. These are
values that are deeply held by Australians and they need to be represented by our prime
minister.

Helen Dalley: You would like her to be very much more open door, but this really could
be dynamite for Labor in the marginal seats, particularly in the western suburbs of
Sydney where there is anxiety about increasing numbers of boats. Many want her to be
tougher on asylum seeker policy.


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Sarah Hanson-Young: But of course that¶s only because they believe that there is
something to be fearful of, because that is the narrative that has been pushed by both
major parties. We of course know that that¶s not true. We know that there¶s nothing to
be fearful of, and as the prime minister of Australia it is her job to be honest and upfront
with people that we have a responsibility, in fact it¶s not illegal to seek asylum in
Australia, it¶s totally legitimate. We have a process, it¶s an orderly process, let¶s trust
that and those people who are refugees, let them stay ± those that are not can go home.
But of course we need to go through that process to determine people¶s status.

Helen Dalley: You have made that point, but in a sense isn¶t it not so much the fear, that
anxiety about being fearful of those people, but thinking they¶re getting treated very well,
they¶re being taken to motels, they¶re not living in detention. Isn¶t it that sort of thing that
people think, well I¶m not being treated like that, homeless people in Sydney and
Melbourne aren¶t being treated like that?

Sarah Hanson-Young: That¶s an interesting take on the issue, because of course one of
the things that has happened under this government is a real winding back of any type of
humane and compassionate approach. Under this government we see children now
being detained again, we see indefinite detention, the re-opening of desert prisons such
as in Curtin and even the talk of opening the Woomera detention centre, this is not a
humane approach to the world¶s most vulnerable people, people suffering torture and
trauma, children whose parents have brought them here in struggle to give them some
type of freedom and protection. When you talk to Australians about what they would do
if their lives were in fear, they overwhelmingly say that they would take whatever means
possible to protect their family. That¶s what these individuals have done. We need to
accept that.

Helen Dalley: In the remaining minute I just want to get to another issue. Julia Gillard
has also directly slapped down Kevin Rudd¶s view of population growth to 36 million by
2050. She says she does not believe in a big Australia, but sustainable growth. Now
you¶d support her on that, wouldn¶t you?

Sarah Hanson-Young: Of course we know that if we keep growing at the rate that we
are, our infrastructure, our environment will not be able to handle it. We need to really
step back and have a think about how we manage this growth in a way that becomes
sustainable. The Greens have of course called for an independent enquiry into
population growth, and that was put forward by the senate, by our leader, Senator Bob
Brown, and it was voted down by both major parties. We do need to have a good look at
how we manage population growth and how we make it sustainable. I welcome the
prime minister¶s comments in relation to wanting to focus on that. But we need to make
sure this doesn¶t simply become a backdoor way off being negative towards some of the
world¶s most vulnerable people such as the refugees and asylum seekers. We need a
prime minister who is very clear about the fact these issues are different, and let¶s talk
about population, let¶s talk about how we can manage population growth more
sustainably, ensure that our infrastructure can cope. Currently it can¶t. But don¶t use
this as a dog whistle to those who are fear- mongers.

Helen Dalley: Just on the polls, the very recent polls taken after the Gillard ascendency,
the Nielsen poll shows Greens support that was so strong falling back to single digits
from 15%, although the most recent Galaxy poll showed the Greens support has firmed


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at about 11% or 12%. Are you concerned your supporters may go back to Labor as the
election approaches?

Sarah Hanson-Young: I think everybody is in a flux of excitement about the first woman
prime minister, and of course the polls need some time to settle down. But as we start
to realise what Julia Gillard means for the Australian community and what type of
government she¶ll lead, people will recognise that there¶s no need just parking the vote
with the Labor Party. If you want action on climate change, if you want to see troops
brought home from Afghanistan, proper funding for mental health, affordable, accessible
childcare, then people know that they¶re the issues that the Greens can be trusted on.
Of course there¶s not just one vote that you cast on election day, there are two ± one for
your local member and one for the senate. It is more important than ever under this
government that we have a strong Green presence in the senate. The last thing we
want to see is a Julia Gillard led government and an Abbott controlled senate. That
would be a disaster for legislative reform and change in this country.

Helen Dalley: We¶re not quite in the election campaign yet. We will have to leave it
there, Sarah Hanson-Young. Thanks so much for being with us.

Sarah Hanson-Young: Thank you very much, Helen.


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