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Slab in ETABS, shell or membrane

Regardless of the software you use, the issue is that there is a wide difference between shell behavior
and a membrane one. Structural engineer should know that a shell has six components of stresses
possible within it, 4 in the plane of the shell and two in the perpendicular direction to that plane. The
shell has a flexural stiffness that allows creating such perpendicular stresses to its plane.
Meanwhile a membrane shall have only four components within the plane of the membrane. There is
no perpendicular stress to the membrane because there is no flexural stiffness in that direction.
Hence a concrete plate is similar to shell in design in light of the presence of flexural stiffness in both.
FAIR ENOUGH?
For the case of modeling your problem if it is a flat slab there is no hustle. Represent it by a shell with
the same thickness as the slab.
If there are beams involved, you should draw your shell all-over the beams, then ask the software to
subdivide the whole plane model by choosing beams and the slab at the same time.
Do I get a like on this illustration?

Shell Vs membrane is a very commonly debated topic among Etabs users.I am sharing response I got
from E-tabs tech support Please bear with long description:

The rigid diaphragm assumes infinite in-plane stiffness of floors and therefore reduce the
stiffness matrix. The semi-rigid diaphragm uses the inplane stiffness of slab and does not condense the
stiffness matrix. For most of the concrete structure where slab is sufficiently thick and we do not expect
any deformation, results for semi-rigid diaphragm will be same as rigid diaphragm. Can use membrane
definition.

However, if you are expecting the slab deformations then modeling a semi--rigid diaphragm will be the
correct way to handle such cases. A semi-rigid diaphragm is same as assigning no diaphragm except it
allows you to assign the accidental ECC due to Wind or Seismic load cases. At the same time , wind loads
can be applied at the center of masses and you do not need to use Area Exposure method to define
Wind load case for semi-rigid diaphragm cases.Need to use shell definition.

There are three levels of modeling for floors in ETABS.

1. The simplest level is that the floor is modeled as one big polygon and is used only to
define the extent of the floor. It is assigned meshing type - "For Defining Rigid Diaphragm and Mass only
(No stiffness - No vertical load transfer)" . It is assigned a rigid diaphragm so it connects all elements
falling within laterally but is unable to transfer any vertical load. This model can be used for a quick
study of the lateral load resisting system.

2. The second level is a step higher in that the floor is meshed coarsely and given only
membrane or deck properties. One could assign a rigid diaphragm if needed, otherwise
connectivity is still provided through the coarse mesh. The vertical load is transferred to
edges of coarse mesh and is either supported directly by columns or by beams and walls on the edges.
This is commonly used with composite floors and can be used for thinner concrete floors where beams
are designed for full gravity loads and slab bending stiffness is not important to the lateral analysis.

3. The third level is to have a decent mesh of the floor either done externally or internally
that connects the major structural elements and also models the correct bending stiffness of the floor
for frame action with columns. This obviously is the correct model and the reason to go to the previous
two levels is to avoid getting a huge model that takes too much time solving or cannot even be solved
on current hardware.

Depend on the length of span and thickness of the slab itself. The rule of thumb is if ratio span/thickness
>40 we can use membrane but if the ratio between 10 and 40 shell can help you much better.thx

You should use a Plate or Shell Element for correct slab behaviour. In LUSAS you have a choice of surface
elements and if your model is just 2D slab then plates give the best results for a given number of
elements. Always do a mesh sensitivity check however. For a concrete slab I would use a thick plate or a
thick shell which models shear deformation (thin ones do not). you can of course model beams under
the slab where appropriate using correct eccentricities.

when you use software you must define your slab as shell because in reality you structure work with the
six component, but when you design you only use the three component if it's slab use only your bending
Mx, My and Mxy you can neglect the normal forces Fx, Fy and Fxy

If the engineer is concerened with seismic load and distribution of seismic loads to the lateral load
resisting system, then the memberane action would be enough to represent the slab behavior (as a
diaphgram subjected to in-plane load). The lose of accuracy due to not considering the flexural behavior
of the slab is minimal in this case. However, if the purpose is to design the slab itself due to gravity loads
(transverse loads to slab plane), then shell action (memberane+flexural) must be used, meaning using
shell elements with 6 DOF's. If the slab is too thick, then shell element with shear deformation shall be
considered.

Great discussion, now I enjoy using ETABS 2013.

To crosscheck with manual calculations, the distribution of loads on Frame objects can be viewed from
Display Menu.

How can we look at the load transferred from the slab to beams : Show Frame/Line Loads Click the
Display menu > Show Loads > Frame/Line command to access the Show Frame/Line Loads form, which
has the following options:

Load Case Choose the static load case whose frame/line loads you want to display from the drop-down
box. Note that static load cases are defined using the Define menu > Static Load Cases command and
assigned using the Assign menu > Frame/Line Loads command.

Load Type Choose the type of load that you want to display. Note that you can only display one of these
types of loads at a time. Also, if a load type is unavailable (grayed out), that type of load has not been
assigned (see the Assign menu > Frame/Line Loads commands). The choices are:

Span Loading Applied Directly to the Line Object (Forces): Includes all of the point, uniform and
trapezoidal force loads (not moment loads) applied to the line object.

Span Loading Applied Directly to the Line Object (Moments): Includes all of the point, uniform and
trapezoidal moment loads applied to the line object.

All Loading that is Tributary to the Line Object (Forces): Displays the calculated point, uniform and
trapezoidal loads tributary to the line object.

All Loading that is Tributary to the Line Object (moments): Displays the calculated point, uniform and
trapezoidal moment loads tributary to the line object.
among above four option the last two option will be highlighted after getting analyse the model once.

with all what our enabled Engineers have elaborated with in depth knowledge, can we make the
assumptions below;

Membrane: used for conventional slab with beam.

Shell: is used for flat slab and wall.

Plate thin: is used for raft foundation where bending is predominant.

Plate thick: is used where shear is predominant.

Membrane is simply like a truss member in line member analogy where as plate is like a beam and shell
is an arch. The behavior between these analogy are same. I hope every one is okay with the knowledge
of truss member, beam and an arch member.

ETABS-2013-Video Training

Chapter-1

Introduction/Kick-Start

Introduction

Advanced capabilities of ETABS 2013

Brief history

ETABS 2013 Levels

Modeling Process

Modeling Features

Analysis Features

Design Feature

Detailing Feature

Modeling Terminology & details

Load case

Load Combinations

Design Settings and scope

Output and Display settings

Model Initialization

New model quick template

GUI after setting template

Chapter-2
Foundation Concept startup

The ETABS graphical user interface

File Operations & Different Extn

Time Saving Options

Templates and Defaults

Basic Process

Standard Tool bars for Doc Managing

Standard Tool bars for Doc Zoom

Standard Tool bars for Doc View

Standard Tool bars for Graphics & Load Display

Model Explorer

Draw Tools

Draw beam-Plan/Elev/3D

Draw Column-Plan/Elev/3D

Draw Brace-Plan/Elev/3D

Quick Draw beam-Plan/Elev/3D

Quick Draw Column-Plan/Elev/3D

Quick Draw Secondary Beam-Plan/3D

Quick Draw Braces-Plan/Elev/3D

Draw Floor/Wall-Plan/Elev/3D

Draw Rectangular Floor/Wall-Plan/Elev

Quick Draw Floor/Wall-Plan/Elev

Draw Wall-Plan

Quick Draw Wall-Plan

Draw Wall opening-Plan/Elev/3D

 Draw Links--Plan/Elev/3D

Draw Wall stacks-Plan/Elev/3D

Wall Meshing techniques

How to apply conditioning to walls/slabs/floor for EQ Analysis

Understanding of Edge constraints for Shear wall/slabs

Example Case study mesh

Units

Display Units

Units Setting

Project-1

Project-2

Project-3

Exercise-1

Exercise-2

Exercise-3

Chapter-3

Modeling & Properties Options

Quick Template settings and Structural Objects

Properties of Steel deck

Properties of Staggered truss

Properties of Flat Slab

Properties of Flat Slab with Perimeter Beams

Properties of Waffle Slab

Properties of 2 Way or Ribbed Slab

 Grid System

Uniform Grid Spec

Custom Grid Spec

Properties Add

Properties Delete

Properties Modify

Frame section Reinforcement-Rebar

Story Dimension

Story data

Modify/Show Story Data

Project-1

Project-2

Project-3

Project-4

Exercise-1

Exercise-2

Chapter-4

Advanced Modeling Options

Replicate Options

Extrude Joints & Frames

Add model from Template-2D Frame

Add model from Template-2D Truss

Add model from Template-2D Wall

Add model from Template-3D-Steel Deck

 Add model from Template-3D-Staggered Truss

Add model from Template-3D-Flat Slab

Add model from Template-3D-Flat Slab with Perimeter Beams

Add model from Template-3D-Waffle Slab

Add model from Template-3D-2 Way or Ribbed Slab

Move Joints/Frames/Shell

Define Material

Material Property Data

Frame Properties

Snap Options

Cladding non-structural member for wind load

Project-1

Project-2

Project-3

Project-4

Project-5

Project-6

Chapter-5

Advanced Boundary Conditions

Joint Loads-Force Parameters

Load Pattern & options

Joint Loads-Ground Displacement Parameters

Joint Loads-Temperature

Frame Loads-Point based load Parameters

 Frame Loads-Distributed load Parameters

Frame Loads-Temperature

Frame Loads-Structure Wind Parameters

Shell Loads-Uniform Load Sets Parameters

Shell Loads-Uniform Parameters

Joint Restraints

DOF-For Pin,Roller,Fixed & free etc

How to reconfigure Supports

IS 875- Part 1-Dead Loads & ETABS

IS 875- Part 2-Imposed Load & ETABS

IS 875- Part 3-Wind Loads & ETABS

IS.15498.2004

Explanation about EQ Load and Basic Orientation on Project

International Other country Load cases i.e ASCE,AS,EURO,Italian,NBCC,Turkish,AS/NZS,UBC

Project-1

Project-2

Project-3

Project-4

Exercise-1

Exercise-2

Exercise-3

Chapter-6

DetailingETABS-2013

Detailing scope
 Detailing Preference

Concrete Detailing Preference-Slab/Beam/Col/Wall

Steel Detailing Preference

Rebar Section Rules

Drawing Sheet Setup

Start Detailing

Show Detailing

Detailing Reports and configuration/Visualization

Prepare component and Elements detailing

Export Drawings

Project-1

Exercise-1

Exercise-2

Chapter-7

Concrete Frame Design-RCC Design

RCC Design Overview

Capability RCC Design

What To do check list before running RCC Analysis

RCC Design Preference

IS 456:2000 & Design Guide Lines

International RCC Design codes for other countries & Implementation

RCC Design Member

Start Design/Check

Display Design info

 Display Design Results

Rebar % and other important Output discussion

Project-1

Exercise-1

Exercise-2

Exercise-3

Chapter-8

Shear Wall Design

Shear Wall Design Preference

IS 456:2000 & Design Guide Lines

Shear Wall Design PIERS & SPANDRELS

Shear Wall Optimization for Thickness & Target Drift

Supported Codes

Design Combination

Start Design/Check

Display Design info

Display Design Results

Shear Wall pier summary

Shear wall Design Details

Design Output Complete detail discussion

Longitudinal reinforcement and other important Output discussion

Project-1

Chapter-9
Modal Frequency Analysis

What is modal Analysis?

The Natural Frequency of a Building

Structural Matrix & System Response

Benefits of modal analysis

How Natural Frequency emanates?

Resonance

Case study-1

Case Study-2& Examples

Modal case Data config

Modal Result Table config

Modal Periods & Frequencies

Modal Participation Mass Ratio

Modal Participation Factors

Load Participation Ratio

Modal Direction Factors

Modal Report Export to Excel

Mode Shapes Settings

Project-1

Chapter-10

Import/Export-Concept

Importing Fundamentals and Unit systems

Importing from Old ETABS Versions

Importing from STAAD.Pro

 Importing from Revit Structure

Importing DWG

Importing DXF

Importing Architectural Options setting

Layer control

ARCH Layer Auto create wall/column/beam/area options

Properties configuration while auto create

Exporting DWG/DXF

Project-1-dxf

Project-2-dwg

Project-3-STAAD

Chapter-11

Selection Quick Tricks

Pointer/Window Selection

Poly selection

Intersection poly

Interesting Line

Co-ordinate specification

Object type selection i.e. column/beam/wall etc.

Properties selection types

Material properties selection

Frame sections

Slab sections

Deck sections
 Wall sections

Link/support properties

Point spring

Line spring

Area spring

Panel zones

Labels

Group

Stories

All

Deselect strata in detail

Invert selection

Clear selection

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SIZE OF RCC BEAM FROM CENTERING POINT OF VIEW

The posting on the size of beams and columns as pointed out by you should be a practical as well as
economical point of view. While designing the depth of beam 1" per one foot span is a thumb rule used
while in the good old days when the working stress is adopted that is span/12 but now it can be span/15
to span/20 depending on span, loading and other considerations and make use of LIMIT STATE METHOD
OF DESIGNING R.C.C. MEMBERS. The idea of span/12 can be taken as a preliminary calculation and
design but practically it can be reduced. The other point is if you need to reduce the steel to some
extend the depth may be taken as span/12 as the cost of steel/Kg is more than a few centimeter
increase in depth of beam concrete. Wise decision has to be exercised while designing considering the
practical aspect and avoiding the material wastage.
In this respect use of 13" will be good enough for the use of timber shuttering rather than having odd
sizes to match with the available timer sizes which will avoid wastage and lead not only economy but
also save time.