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MY and thats at am Pacific Time

OK

MY and urn at that time well be talking about some of the specific uh partners and ISYs

and other companies that are excited about this venture as well as urn as well as

technologies

Can you uh can you say yes or no to whether there will be any PC hardware

manufacturers

MY Um...1 can say can say no well tell

you tomorrow

Whats the point of the call today if youre not going to tell me anything jg
MY Well what we wanted to talk to you guys about is the way in which were coming with

this and to just get you guys up to speed and to be aware of how were going to be

making the source code available

OK is that is there anything different from the way you said you were going to do it

before

MY No Not really Um its really just to bring you guys up to speed and see if you have any

questions um

JH think. .also think since we first announced this back in January um one of the things

thats been arnazing is how urn quickly external parties both press and customers and

others have picked up on the significance of this announcement and looked at

really it as

an important milestone sort of in the history of how software gets developed Because it

is the first time that major um commercial software developer is an empl is

employing this
open source development process for widely very broadly

distributed product um and weve been getting urn incredibly great feedback from

customers as well as press and analysts about method

employing urn this to develop our

software

M-hm what what mechanisms are you going to have in place to...insure that it doesnt

become another UNIX

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Tom ...I guess have to ask what what part of UNIX are you afraid of

.. fragmentation

Tom The whole idea behind

Different versions you know

Tom Sure

right now youve got the world is kind of kind of understands that there are two major

browser differences you know and Microsofts and theyre

yours theyre you

know theyre compatible most of the time but you know maybe 80 percent of the time

but they diverge and they understand the difference in the versions but theyre generally

upward compatible but whats to stop there from being from being hundred different

incompatible of of Navigator
year from now

Tom Well theres theres several answers theres several questions and answers in there

first of all the um the license asks that if you take the
comp the code and modify

it that in the general case you provide your modifications back

OK so thats like Sun And in fact thats the way UNIX was too right

Jim Actually not exactly mean...the key thing here is to incent all the developers to

contribute to if
you will the common good so if someone does splinter off and take

Communicator off in direction other than where the mass then

is moving theyve

basically splintered themselves from the contributions of the other developers that are

contributing to Communicator So theres lot of incentive positive feedback if

loop

you will to incent developers to...continue to contribute back into uh the licensed

domain changes additions and modifications And in doing so their own

they keep

code in
synchrony with what everyone else So the number of
is doing as long as

and there
developers is quite large will be in this case um there is
very strong

incentive to keep locked in in lock step with what the rest of the code base and

developers are contributing to

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Theyre not paying you license at all right

Jim Im sorry

Theyre not paying you any license fee at all..

Jim Thats correct

Tom But...I disagree with the UNIX uh situation UNIX urn for example when was at

Silicon Graphics we licensed uh System 5.4 from AT we modified the wazoo out

of it to make our graphics subsy sterns work we did not give that code back to AT

Right

Tom nor were we under any obligation to That was pretty much unidirectional license

was. ..That was more along the lines of how things are with Java today...which is of

course an issue but it sounds like its little bit different in that youre not requiring

license Anybody can do anything

Torn Well yeah youre...permitted to take the code and do with it what you will but if
you

modify it you are obligated to at least make the modifications available back....That may

or may not stick..

Jim difference is that there is license requirement to give back and theres
changes

incentive to not diverge from the public tree if you will

Do you foresee now can see large end user customers wanting to bring to have

their own copy of the browswer for lots of different reasons mean theyd like to have

copies of all source code of everything use can but also may want
if
they they they to

make some minor modifications of their own but do see that will want
you they to

buy software from someone who may make modifications there market
is for someone

to do that and if so are they going to charge for it are allowed to for it
they charge

Tom Sure Theres market and theyre allowed 4p theres

to charge for it
any number of

reasons somebody might want to create application-specific or situation

specific version perhaps they just feel like trying their hand at the marketing of it

theres nothing with

wrong that

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JH mean the Netscape brand name will continue to mean lot to end users itll mean that

the product has been tested released supported documented by Netscape so we

think therell still be significant value with the Netscape branded products but to Toms

theres urn other or more

point still specific application areas vertical niches where

um there could be custom versions of Communicator that address those needs

Could you tell me little bit about your plan for 5.0 or whatever youre calling the next

release

Tom You rnean the Netscape 5.0 Communicator product

Yeah

Jim think the key point is is that you know we are putting the 5.0 out in in its early

development form tomorrow and there will be some interesting new features that

have not been discussed prior to now that will kind of indicate some of the directions that

we had we were planning on taking 5.0 its our intent to completely lock on to the

public Net development with our developers and to with them in the
co-develop

evolution of 5.0 And at some point in time which we have not publicly disclosed

yet we will be doing snapshot of that tree testing it as Julie had indicated and

certifying it and then releasing it as Netscape-branded product much as we have done

in the past

And..

JH So one rnore top one more top line point in terms of our sort of our product road map

moving forward we will be continuing to do releases 4.x releases on our existing 4.0

code base And those are to meet the needs of of our customers the same
specifically at

time in
parallel

..I
mean when is 5.0 and what does it have in it or when you can tell me that

Jim Well cant commit to release date of 5.0 but

public can tell
you that what is what

youll be seeing in the release tomorrow that that will be in the source tomorrow is

is lot of browsing enhancements uh using the

technology that weve calling RDF

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therell be some some limited amount of XML support um some modular support for

third-party JDMs urn variety of improvements in usability enhancements across the

product line And those are all

things that were underway uh as part of the 5.0 release

and well continue to make investments in all of those areas

So you dont even have goal to ship by the end of the year

311 Right now were not in that

Jim we have no announced date think

JH Let me one reason why were not announcing date for 5.0 right now is because urn

way we
this
open source development process does change the
develop products and

what were putting out right now is early source code for Communicator 5.0 before we

actually put the product into Beta we need to take changes urn from the folks out there

on the Net we need to integrate more changes that Netscape will be developing for that

product and then and then at that point the product into Beta and we ship it So
goes

our intent is to get that product out as quickly as possible but at this point were not

were not releasing schedules

OK
MY so basically we just wanted to touch base with you guys as were getting ready to

make the source code available to see if

you guys had any specific questions regarding

the strategy around making our source code available the developer
to community

around Mozilla.org any other issues before we make the announcement tomorrow

JH Another point is that and and as youll see tomorrow as the source code comes out

and we put out some materials on our website about our future product and technology

directions is that the source code does contain significant future directions for our

products So we have been you know doing work on the 5.0 product in-house thats

included in the source code and that will be available to the public tomorrow So as

part of this announcement we do announce future directions for that 5.0 product

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OK Well Ill tell some things were looking for you know am looking for

concrete concrete road map for when people can expect next versions of of

Navigator and Communicator because there is them is some question in

peoples

minds as to whether youre just dumping this into public domain and are going to not

going to contend and what what continued investment youre going to have in there

So thats why Im asking the questions People are making commitment that
may may

not find this open source code thing all that at least to themselves as as
enthralling

consumers they dont want to do it they dont care about it they just want to know that

what theyre buying or what theyre committing to is to still have vendor around
going

to support them two three years from now

JH Sure open source code is simply new process to develop the product

understand that but thats why Im asking the question

JH Right

The other thing the other thing much of interest who your
that is very to us is

partnerships are who is going to be producing their own branded version of

Communicator are there going to be PC hardware .. you know is there going to be an

IBM and Sun which are obvious we would expect

version ones that might we see

Microsoft version thats not out of the out of the realm of possibility

Tom So in answer to that while were not discussing who the4 who were actually talking

to right now if we were we still couldnt answer that question because ..people are

going to take this source code and and build products out of arent obligated
it to

identify themselves as such

But but there are some that be

are going to standing up there with you tomorrow and

those are going to be of interest to us

Tom OK

Those who dont stand up there with you are also going to be...of interest to us

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JH M-hm

OK Well thank you

JH Great

MY Thanks for your time you guys

guess Frank didnt call in

JH .and once once we have the code out there and you take look at some of our

next generation product directions wed be happy to come back and do briefing

specifically on those 5.0 product directions

OK thatll be good

MY Yeah absolutely so please join us on the call tomorrow

may not be able to we have meeting already scheduled

MY OK OK Well well make sure that Mike West gets

the message as well

OK
MY Great Thanks for your time

Thanks

MY Bye bye

murmurs

Tom ...blown away that

people_actually think were going to dump and run

JH ...were dumping our product..

MY know..

MY ...That the buzz The buzz in the industry is that were just we got rid of our

Theyre looking for some big headline story...I mean thats the line they want to write

but be squashed no time

thatll in mean theyll get no support from developers on that

This is all positive been

press right so theres ton of positive press..

When they hit us up with that do you hit them hard with the Mozilla.org and look at all

the stuff on there and and

going the activity the responsiveness and the license

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Theres problem there Theres four people in Mozilla.org

Well they dont know how many people

Theyre going to know tomorrow

MY Well theyre only going to know if they ask the question

yre going to know if they go to the website

Yeah but they also those four people represent

know that and were were going to cover that but

Right

Another thing we need to reinforce is that were still doing Netscape still does internal

development of the client

M-hm

-you know

His his havent

point was heard Netscape say youre ever going to ship Netscape-

branded product

there are no product announcements Thats telling

So maybe we have to
say we are absolutely shipping Communicator 5.0 its going to be

based on you know internal efforts as well as the efforts of the Net

...well announce the announcement

Right yeah ..were doing it were committed were just not giving date
you

And the road map in the source overview is going to clearly state that were to do
going

point releases and that we have 5.0 you know scheduled in that timeframe

Right

Tom So who here has problem if put it in the Mozilla FAQ so is it true that Netscapes

cutting and running No its not Can do that

Yeah

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MY think youd better

Tom OK

These groups it seems to me its fine to

say we are going to do 5.0 product its

subject to us working with the Net and theres

MY Well think Julie answered that but there is still skepticism

The problem is
you cant the the dials that you usually can turn when youre doing it

yourself you dont have quite the thats theres somewhat where you have to

articulate right

Or maybe we need to uh

We dont have the same dial to do the same level of planning so we have to go through it

little farther before we can say

When were going to

therefore heres what we can do

think theyd read that as do we have no control we not have

or...do
any idea

So let me pose something else we could also talk Jim were talking about how we can

increase the confidence of these folks that were 5.0 product

doing

Jim Right

um we could also talk more specifically and enthusiastically about features

Jim OK do you think we should actually mention features that are in the source then

Toms Toms giving me the scrunchy face

Tom Im hating that

think
disagree yeah we should go with another ..

well think we should with whats

stay in the
summary because we dont want to
go any

deeper than

Well no no

.sucked right into the..

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Tom There are no features in this thing that can compare to the ones we dont know about

And stay away from the fact that its not product announcement

JH But then we need to

say were significantly moving our browswer platform forward

Yeah

JH with RDF and XML were taking ..you know Java to the next level with OJI and it

can still be high-level but we need to think be lithe more hard-hitting and not

apologetic for our features like yeah this is great weve got all these new

features. .next generation product

Jim Julie is anything short of saying definitive like were going release
something to ship

this
year which believe we are is going to satisfy them

MY Dont say were going to ship this year

Jim Yeah no understand know we cant say that but Im just trying to figure out what

what the middle ground here

Ithink

Look this is not guys were in business here businesses have unannounced products

It is completely OK to say were not. .you know we have not publicly disclosed our 5.0

plannings yet mean

...just say were definitely doing 5.0 think we need to be

We can say that emphatically we say look we are so committed to 5.0 we have you

know three four hundred dont know. .umpteen hundreds of engineers working on

it. .or how many we have full client product division on

working it

No dont want to go there

dont think you have the justification

say we
to into
go you can just are doing 5.0

product any noise about the fact that were dumping and running is ridiculous Just hit

that head on that were we are to do it we are and reiterate the same
continuing just

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JH Weve got all the resources we had before plus hundreds of thousand of external

developers Whos looking for story

Dont write that story itll look dumb

MY But yeah So we just need to be pretty emphatic in the

way we

Yeah

MY we bring it back home because theyre these are the

guys providing the quotes to

those stories

You have to hit that away soon comes

right as as it
up to just say its ridiculous

The other thing heard with Gardener is sort of so whats the news

Well weve always had that problem

MY Well think that

any time were scheduling appointments to talk to analysts before

major announcement they think were going to give them

Tidbits

bit But think know

urn you the way we answered and
little that right up front

David wasnt on the phone when was telling the others as you know were launching

source tomorrow we wanted make guys you know

just to sure you if you had any

questions were here to answer them before...that announcement goes We cant talk

about partners mean if we mention Digital and Adobe their phones are going to ring

off the hook so

Im annoyed with the concept that theyre going to take great stock in whos not there

with us tomorrow

Yeah

All talk at once

...you know take our source code and spin new product out of it Who would do that

Thats not what their business is theyre not

We give them other tools for that entirely

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Theyre interested in unlimited distribution and customization theyre not interested in

developing source code..

..they do want to .. these guys all these vendors have these you know the Dell

folder..

But it is reasonable to tell to ask these guys why why do you think its critical to have

PC COMPAQ for example announce support for this tomorrow

MY Yeah

Theyre interested in applications that help sell their hardware

Right

Source code open source is means in which to get better application They will be

interested in the result Not necessarily the

process

They talk themselves while Maggie

amongst gets tries to get someone else on the phone

She gets in touch with Eric Brown

MY You know what Ive got great idea Can you hold on second You know what

might do lets split up UM Dave

Dave Uh-huh

MY Are you comfortable in talking with Eric Brown at Forrester on your own about this

DR dont know Eric

MY So we can kill two birds with one stone

DR Sure

MY Maybe you could take Tom with you

DR Sure

MY And Dave and

you guys could go do that one right now and then re-join us and Julie

and Jim well handle this one

OK

2M 33.\-1

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...but hes pretty nice guy generally pretty Netscape-favorable

Uh so Tom is going to do the lead

Tom OK

-right

Tom Fine

ctdonZj know what the basic flow of the points are Ill be glad to jump in

EB Eric Brown

DB Hey Eric Dave Bottoms

EB Hey how you doing

DB Pretty good

EB OK

DB All right Were ready to go Im here with Tom Paquin and

EB Tom how are you

Tom Howdy

DB And ..Dave Rothchild

EB M-hm Hi Dave

DB Who think youve spoken to before

DR Hihowareyou

EB Good Dave

DB And Matt Harris whos another product manager for Communicator Toms Netscape

fellow Daves our VP of the client division And were going to tell
you little

bit about an announcement were

that
going to be making tomorrow

EB All right so what is this surprise announcement

Tom Well dont think this is Tom dont think its

speaking big surprise as matter of

fact its kind of closing the loop on what weve already said just real quick as

you know guess in January we announced that we would be giving away the or

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the source the Netscape and then about month

releasing to Navigator later we

announced the creation of this organization called Mozilla.org

EB M-hm

Tom whose mission was to uh foster the further development of that in the in the uh

broader community And whats happening tomorrow is well be actually releasing that

source code urn and kickstarting off the the more public development of

Communicator products

EB Right

Tom Um were pretty pumped up about this because we think that everybody wins the ISPs

and developers are excited about the ability to influence the direction of the source to be

able to extend APIs be able

it
through their to to produce their own custom versions the

enterprise customers are pretty pumped up about it they lot of development

get they

get more quality and they also get some of the freedoms um from having the source and

we think that the consumers are the real winners in the end because they get the benefit

of all this this uh contributed and cooperative labor weve had some some

feedback from the the Web and the Net and other places to lead us to believe this is

going over very very well including the press lot of uh lot of feedback is very very

positive about not only what were but the for how thisll
doing prognosis go

EB M-hm

Tom So thats really what were talking about tomorrow that its happening the source does

go up tomorrow

Well be having uh conference call tomorrow and

morning can give you the

number

Torn have that number its uh 800-949-5381

9am Pacific

EB M-hm

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DR This is Dave Rothschild Urn couple of other things is the source is going up urn its

primarily targeted for developers urn there will be instructions by which

they. instructions they can follow to be able to make modifications and build the source

as well urn the source is snapshot of our 5.0 development effort so it includes lot of

the technologies that were under development in the uh in that source release urn this is

the point at which Netscape takes off and starts to do the

open source development as

opposed to the closed source developrnent um and urn start to harness all the the

intellectual
property out on the Net Urn we will continue to uh mean were going to

start to
engage full time now with the Net and and...work to evolve this into
shippable

product and Netscape will be shipping uh 5.0 base product off of our own internal

efforts. and the contributions from the Net Uh we dont have release schedules for

when that uh will will the Net

product is ship because us like
community are uh

picking up the...the new development process here and we need little bit of time to

work with that

group to ..get our plans solidified but we do have all intentions to uh

develop...a Netscape-branded QAd version um from the source release

EB M-hm

One other point is um...Netscape still has our uh our current product thats shipping up

on our website right now is our 4.0.4 version um will continue see releases of our
you to

4.x client um targeted at our enterprise customers largely that are in the process of

deploying our product and we do maintenance releases to fix issues that come up as they

deploy so we will in parallel work on the 5.0 and continue to have 4.x releases as well

EB Do you have any sense when 5.0 rnight be completed rnean like year In 1998 in

1999..

Well we um right now were were we arent uh making any statements about

particular dates

EB M-hm

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urn our first objective was to get to the point where we get the source out there urn

now its the time where were starting to adjust our development process to to work

with the Net and we need bit of time under our belts to work that
little urn process

before we we feel more uh solid about when we release mean it its really joint

effort
now its its not the traditional model where everything is under Netscapes

control

EB Right

Urn now theres you know theres more of free market society and we have to we

have some market have urn when

to to extent urn let the free vote on when thisll

be and theres work

ready to do to uh to get it
fully functional so its not the same ball

game where its closed source where we could tell you look heres the .. chart with

all the tasks and schedules and therefore we know

EB M-hm

urn its uh little bit different development model

EB This is
very different development model than the one Sun has created around Java

Itis

EB Urn it is there some contrast mean does this sound like something that Sun should

also participate in in terms of Java innovation

Thats rnean its really to Sun to how want choose

up as they to their development

model were were trying to pave way here that weve seen work with urn some of

the other models LINUX in particular and you know we well see if other vendors

follow that or not

process

Tom Mozilla.org believes that that we benefit greatly from everyone elses contribution We

much want lots of contribution from people were

very out there
you know acutely

aware of the fact that theres more smart outside

people of the company than inside the

company and wed like to be able to take advantage of that Oft so the whole structure

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and and model of of how were doing going about this the license and everything

else is is based around getting other people to contribute

EB M-hm

Tom .there isnt so much uh an insistence upon ownership over the long haul And the

way this is not going to succeed if we dont allow people to be able to influence it

in in community way

EBRight
Tom And one of the one of the things thats been really great around here lately is the

feedback has come you know its been very very positive and its you know been

primarily in two camps one is wow this is really right which doesnt mean
great really

whole lot um but its encouraging hear and

to the other one is wow really want to

do the following few things want to contribute heres this how do

great idea play

And theres been lot of that from from individuals as well as from you know major

organizations uh so were very very hopeful that this will take off

EB When look at the...it seems to me like if

money is to be made in the Internet software

business its to be made at the server Uh thats trend Oversimplified but certainly an

observable trend So you know look at this and say well you know heres an

opportunity to you know kind of re-cast the client business at Netscape acknowledging

that the revenue model and the business model END OF TAPE
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