Lesson From Waco 1993 (Acts 17:11)

From just what I have learned in the past week or so after having stumbled upon a
Youtube video on Gun Control (this one) which made a reference to the incident in Waco, TX
involving the David Koresh and the (Davidian) Branch Davidians, much can be written up here
on how, to my surprise, as it has been for many who have come across this factual information,
the Assault and Siege on the Waco Compound was completely unnecessary, and the end result on
April 19, 1993 was not “an engineered mass suicide by fire of Koresh and the 80+ people who
were there”, but, at the very least, “accidentally” caused by FBI unprofessionalism and (spiteful)
exaggerations. There is ample documentation of this available on the internet and a simple, e.g.,
Google and Youtube search including combinations of key terms such as “Waco”;
“Tragedy|Massacre|Assault|Siege”; “Congressional Hearings”; “David Koresh/Vernon Howell”;
“Branch Davidians”; etc. will reveal much information. A short listing of key documentary
resources is given here:

Documentaries/Films
Waco - A New Revelation (1999) or here
Waco - The Rules of Engagement (1997) or here
Day 51 - The True Story Of Waco (1995) also here
Waco - The Big Lie (1993)
Waco II - The Big Lie Continues (1994)
Inside Waco (2007) Part 1 & Part 2
Mugshots - David Koresh - Prophet of Death (2009)
AFPN - The Waco Incident
Witness to Waco [MSNBC] (2009)
Truth & Lies: Waco [ABC] (2017)
America_ Wake Up Or Waco (2000) -includes the story of the goodwill (re)-building by
"strangers" of a Memorial Chapel on former Mount Carmel Compound site/grounds.

TV Series
Waco (2018) a 6-part miniseries [streaming videos]

Websites
Mount Carmel Library
American Patriot Friends Network [APFN] - Waco Resources Links
Ashes of Waco - Digitized Collection

Books
A Place Called Waco: A Survivor's Story (by David Thibodeau, Leon Whiteson (1999))
A Journey to Waco: Autobiography of a Branch Davidian (by Clive Doyle, with Catherine
Wessinger & Matthew D. Wittmer (2012))
The Ashes of Waco: An Investigation (by Dick J. Reavis (1998))
The Davidian Massacre - Disturbing Questions about Waco which Must Be Answered (by Carol

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Moore (1995))

Related Resources
Children of Waco (6 parts) (1997)
Inside Mount Carmel (12 parts) (1993)- Interviews with people in compound during siege.
(David Koresh speaks from part 8ff)
Waco Survivor David Thibodeau Experience/Testimony (1994)
The Truth About Waco - Bob Trefz [esp. 47:27-01:22:53ff]

Opposing Views
“Cult Expert” Rick A. Ross Institute - Koresh/Waco Links

Also significantly, many of the claims and allegations made against David Koresh, as in
the “Sinful Messiah” - Newspaper article, were either, at least legally/judicially, unfounded
and/or unproven. Chief of which was the claim that Koresh thought the he was Jesus Christ
Himself based on a misconstruing of his view/interpretation of the lamb in Rev 5, which I
understand, he merely thought that that prophecy (and the 7 ensuing Seals) had
(another/eschatological?) application beyond one which involved an historicist one initiated by
Jesus Christ Himself. And as discussed here, such a “secondary application view” actually has
hermeneutical and exegetical validity from both the Bible and the writing of EGW.

Now that all does not mean that David Koresh was faultless and blameless, though the
evidence shows that he was not malevolent, as he was initially being knee-jerkedly demonized in
the mainstream media. And frankly, that is the view I had of him for these nearly 20 years until
this recent research. It is most interesting to me to hear that the person (Phil Penningroth) who
wrote the script for the (effectively propaganda) movie: “In the Line of Duty - Ambush at Waco”,
(French version) which had begun to be produced during the siege, soon after the initial ATF
bungled (and unnecessary) raid on Feb. 28, 1993, soon after disowned it. Indeed the full facts of
the matter, including a factual knowledge and understanding of what Koresh and these Davidians
thought and believed did not support those popular claims. (At the very least, these, (at their
base) SDAs, could have used a direct intervention of Church Scholars to help them avoid those
errors, but as it turns out, and is still the similar case today, SDAs were likewise exegetically
deficient.)
Relatedly though, Koresh’s claim/belief that God must now send an “Anointed One”
(a.k.a. Messiah) who would not be sinless, but purposely sinful in order to better attract sinners to
him, unlike Jesus Christ is patently Theologically, Biblically and Factually false. I.e., God does
not use nor need sin to attract sinners, but rather permits this to condemningly ensnare rebellious
people (e.g., 1 Kgs 22:19-23; 2 Thess 2:11-12) and I would say that 1/3 of the world today, (at
least professedly) from barely 12 in 31 A.D. is quite an achievement by God. He can, and will
always draw those who have a willing attitude, and that with Good and Truth.
Even the, probably most offensive, and potentially illegally (i.e., as potentially posited by
some law enforcement officials, if common law, as well as parental consent, marriage laws
actually did/could not apply here), matter of Koresh having indeed fathered several children from

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the wives of other men in the compound was evidently not out of sinful desires, nor was it
thereafter, (relatively speaking), “systematically”/“whimsically” consummated, but really out of
shoddy and over literalistic understandings/interpretations of some parts of the Bible (e.g., Songs
of Solomon 6:8-9; -contra. Deut 17:17|PK 52.2-55.1ff) where, as I have gathered, it was a belief
that, among other things: “all men should become deliberate Eunuchs for the kingdom” (Matt
19:12); and that this kingdom was the one that the little lamb was going to establish and the 24
elders would rule therein as kings/priests (Rev 5:10 KJV); and as David Koresh was that little
lamb, then he had to genetically father at least 24 children who would thus be the rightful heirs of
these 24 thrones in that kingdom.
To be purposefully candid and forthcoming here, to my surprise, upon researching this
information of the Waco incident, I came to shockingly realize that I have several similar (though
not at all: “same” (illustratively as in e.g., the U.S. and Canada are very similar Western, even,
neighboring, countries but, societally-speaking, not at all the “same”) beliefs as these Davidian
Branch Davidians. And, now most confirming to me, when I had long ago, began to see an
eschatological implication of Rev 5, almost from a “reminding/cautioning” supernatural source, I
was then also reminded of David Koresh, I then was indeed cautious not to delve into the
erroneous ways and understandings of Koresh, though not actually at all knowing what the
specifically were here on that matter beyond the basic knowledge of the popular claim that ‘he
had said that he was Jesus Christ’. But as it turns out, though we came to similar conclusions in
the end, they indeed were not the same, either in theology nor practice/application. Namely,
though I, e.g., see, as fully discussed in here, that the eschatological implication of the little lamb
and the 24 elders in Rev 5 does involve an established kingdom of God, unlike Koresh, I do not
see that in the New Covenant, God needs to have literal children born from a person to become
those kings as such titles could, and should be honorarily bestowed. (cf. Rev 21:7). (In fact, as
seen in the switch from Saul (tribe of Benjamin) to David (Judah), that was also not required in
the Old Covenant.). Indeed Jesus set out to establish an New Covenant Israel, not by having 12
natural children, as it was the case with Jacob (Gen 30:1-24), (which would seem to be the most
logical thing to do), but by calling and then instructing 12 (grown) men (Matt 10:1-5ff). Case in
point, having myself quite naturally seen that, the best way to have like-minded successors, was,
as likewise believed in Bible times (and is still fully applicable today), to have like-minded
children, and this can be done by properly raising them from their childhood (Pro 22:6; Eph 6:4),
I have considered, and it is not at all a non-possibility, to, if/since I more likely will not be able to
naturally, and Biblically have such 24 children, to instead adopt 24 children, and that according
to my planned Aborting-Abortion ministry, and raise them up with all of these full Biblical
teachings and (hopefully) they will later freely choose to continue this NJK Project work, and
tangibly be those first 24 Ethnarchs (cf. here) of the NJK’s 24 Global Regions. But like I said, I
also understand that such functions and positions can be filled in by anyone who rightly fulfills
them and so, unlike Koresh, I am not literalistically limiting this.[1]1
All this to say that the crux of Koresh problems and issues was all borne out of
shoddy/poor/deficient Biblical exegesis and all that this full and comprehensively entails.[2]2 It
then led him to (pun-intended) espoused many false beliefs, and this is where I see that the Devil
could have gained a foothold in his life to “inspire” him with false impressions, particularly if
Koresh was confronted with the Biblical light upon something and opted to ignore it. E.g., as

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discussed here, while the Bible did (and may still today, -though advanced fertility science today
would greatly limits the validity of this) permits bigamy, even polygamy, only in genuine cases
of a woman being incapable of having children, it does not ever permit e.g., the “breaking up
another marriage” for this (Matt 19:6). And as it was evidently brought forth by Koresh’s first
wife upon leaving him, the Bible also did not permit a man having both a woman and that
woman’s mother as wives (Lev 20:14, and vice-versa in Lev 20:12)[3]3 [A negating provision
which actually is added tacit (as with Deut 21:15-17), evidence that God did permit having more
than one wife in cases of infertility.]. So properly applying the test of a prophet such as Isa 8:20
to David Koresh would have at the very least ‘rejected any evil claims’ that he would have
advanced (1 Thess 5:19-22).[4]4
Indeed in just listening through David Koresh’s sermons (see e.g., in here and here), it is
no surprise, as many of his followers confessed, that after listening to him, though they were
impressed by what he had presented, they could not cogently tell you what he had actually taught
because he was indeed ‘all over the place’ both presentation wise and also
substantively/exegetically. That scattered and irregular “rapid fire” [-(belated) caution David
Gates] style of his, as well as, compoundedly his lack of proper exegesis is what doomed that
quite sincere group. (And in similar ways, these similar deficiencies are, even indifferently,
relatively found within the SDA Church, and will also, indeed, comparatively, correspondingly
doom them....And see also here in regards to the matching pedigree of sly SDA “False
Shepherds” (=Ezek 34:1-22).) For those who claim and do believe in the Bible, the Devil will
always work to trip them up by leading them to various key exegetically-deficient
readings/understandings of it, just as he endeavored to do with Jesus in the Wilderness (Matt 4:1-
11|Luke 4:1-13|DA 114-131). And people who allow either indifferent ignorance, on one end of
the deception spectrum, and/or vanity and pride on the other hand, with base decision-making in
between, to rule in their lives, will always fall to these deceptions of Satan, leading to their
ultimate, even catastrophic, downfall.
Seriously, if the year had been at least 2003 instead of 1993, with the advances in
computer software and the internet in regards to the greater availability of powerful Bible study
resources, Koresh may not at all been able to mislead these people, (perhaps also himself if he
was truly sincere), as they would have had great, and also deep exegetical, Bible resources and
tools to “match” the computer-like great knowledge and ability of Koresh to “panoramically”
roam through the Bible, and also out of memory, and extemporaneously string up texts together
to present things that surfacely, seem true. And as also key to proper exegesis, they would have
thus also found all passages on a topic and thus avoided making the common mistake of making
a claim based solely on some passages and not on all of the balancing full testimony of both the
Bible and SOP.

Conclusion
So the Lessons that must be learned from the Waco incident is to always do one’s factual
and exegetical homework, both in terms of the Bible as well as secular issues, as this is a
necessary basis for (full) Truth. And it is from that basis that any religious experience can be
properly tested and its Source ascertained.[5]5

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My Various Observations
-Planned Mass Suicide Accusation - David Koresh was accused of (always) planning a mass,
fiery suicide, but that does not concord with the fact that he only let children (ca. 20) which were
not his to leave the compound during the siege, yet actually had a quite strong belief, (and
inherent incentive), that the (ca. 15) children which he had fathered (and/or adopted) would rule
on the Earth after him (as the 24 elders of Rev 4+5). He instead would convince people that the
‘future rulers’ needed to be the first ones to be sent out, particularly when the standoff was
becoming more intense.

-Koresh’s Understanding of Luke 22:36 - My initial reaction when I heard that Koresh had
been citing Jesus’s statement in Luke 22:36 as the basis for his amassing of firearms was that,
this was another instance of his many unexegetical distortions of Scripture. However, upon a
recent discussion with someone on that topic, and upon reading that verse in its full context
(Luke 22:35-38), including what later transpired with Jesus in His Gethsemane arrest and His
trials, I can see that, in that instance, Koresh may, objectively speaking, have cited a valid
Biblical basis. And that is because, Jesus was actually recommending to His disciples in Luke
22:35-38 that unlike the prior time when He had sent them out as ‘fully dependent ones’ (Matt
10:9-10), i.e., fully dependent on the expected good will and actions of others, this time around,
things had drastically changed as prophecy stated that Jesus was going to be falsely accused as a
criminal (Luke 22:37), and thus was going to be treated unfairly, with the likelihood of
unwarranted violence being done towards Him. So the counsel was here for the disciples to ‘this
time get ready to defend themselves for such lawless violence’. That is in line with Jesus
teaching on this subject, as stated in Matt 5:39 which is actually not saying, as most people,
especially non-Christians, presume/assume, to “turn the other cheek to everyone”, but actually to
‘not stand up against someone who is evil’ i.e., lawless. In other words, as long as there is a
chance to obtain justice, then do fight for that right, including self-defense, as in Israel’s wars.
But when dealing with an evil/lawless person, it is not worthwhile to confront them, which may
precipitate one’s death, but let God resolves things however He sees/thinks is best.
And this principle was fully followed by Jesus in the upcoming events. When faced with
a lawless mob who came against Him with “swords and clubs” (Luke 22:52), Jesus did not
bother ‘putting up a fight’, particularly as doing so may just result in them overreacting according
to their evident bias against him and proceeding to kill Him and His disciples. Instead, and as no
physical acts of violence was actually initiated by the arresting mob, Jesus allowed Himself to be
arrested and “take His chances”, so to speak, with the supposed-to-be-lawful prosecution
procedures, (-which however did not turn out to be lawful/legal at all). Indeed when asked
whether or not they should make use of the swords which they had, Jesus did not give His
approval, and it was Peter who still went ahead and make use of (“defensive”) force, to which
Jesus strongly put an end to that pointless and dangerous course. (Luke 22:49-51; Matt 26:52-54)
And so we do indeed see Jesus standing up for Justice during the prosecutions (John
18:19-21, 22-23), including Jesus being more engaging with the objectively, much more lawful,
reasonable, fair and just Pilate, -the (civil) authority which had final Capital say on the matter
(John 18:28-38; cf. Matt 27:18). Similarly we see the same thing with Paul in appeals to a more
lawful court (Acts 25:11; 28:19). So, in comparative application, it certainly was not an

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American/Civil crime for the Davidian Branch Davidians to have firearms, and
claims/allegations of illegal arms were really never conclusively proven. It also was not immoral,
per se, for them to have weapons for self-defensive purposes. (Just as it was not wrong for God’s
Israel to have swords to defend themselves in the case of a war.) And the way things developed
with the Feb 28, 1993 ATF warrant execution of an, actually, “knock and announce”, warrant
which did not authorize the default use of force, and with all produced evidence and
corroborating credible testimony clearly showing that the Branch Davidians had not set an
ambush for the ATF, and most likely had not fired the first shot, and that it evidently was David
Koresh who was barraged with gun fire from the ATF when he sought to meet with them at the
front door, their, thus, returning of gun fire, was purely defensive, especially, as they were
protecting the many women and children who were inside the compound.
So the applicable teaching and principle of Jesus on such an issue is clear, when the
conditions are tangibly threatening, God does not expect his people to be doormats, pushovers
and “sitting ducks”, but allows them to ready themselves for their protection and defense, (and of
course not to use that capability to be the instigators or aggressors).

Weblinks
Gun Gripes Episode 20: "The Shame of Waco"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H8Zc5jN72s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

Online Resources
Waco - A New Revelation (1999) (HQ - Part 1 of 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRgwf81XIVg
Waco - A New Revelation (1999) (HQ - Part 2 of 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh1bXqjELrQ
Waco - A New Revelation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr9pQ1pIbiU
Waco: A New Revelation (Full Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH6WWtYqmqk
Waco The Rules of Engagement William Gazecki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=566UIwdktOg
WACO The Rules of Engagement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4scgRAJxWc
WACO The Rules of Engagement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxvsV5zXLI8
WACO the rules of engagement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-uxnaVQiB8
Day 51 - The True Story Of Waco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zxND3qnEPk
Day 51 -- **The True Story Of Waco**

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3CGyH5ftdE
Day 51: The True Story of Waco (1994)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7504F631322869B2
Waco - The Big Lie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ1b-PHdFZU
Waco II - The Big Lie Continues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABiCv_KP1BA
Inside Waco - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYtYbNtPFtQ
Inside Waco - Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0jTEzyf1yc
Mugshots_ David Koresh - Prophet of Death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XygKVPisltw
AFPN: The Waco Incident
http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x2g9kb_apfnorg_the-waco-incident/1#video=x1d2je
Witness To Waco - MSNBC Documentary 2009 Cult David Koresh Branch Davidians (Rick
Ross)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLKPNvyrM30
Truth & Lies: Waco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUAeG0FLLmA
America: Wake Up (Or Waco) Full Length (2000)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3tjrRoV8Xg

TV Series
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_(miniseries)
http://www.paramountnetwork.com/shows/waco

Websites
http://mtcarmellibrary.com/
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wacopg.htm
http://cdm15042.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/landingpage/collection/p9010coll4

Books
http://books.google.ca/books?id=-k34va6Lx3UC&lpg=PA23&pg=PA23#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://www.scribd.com/doc/101820957/A-Journey-to-Waco-Autobiography-of-a-Branch-Davidia
n
http://books.google.ca/books?id=aHOu4yKIIroC&lpg=PA3&pg=PA3#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://www.carolmoore.net/waco/TDM-index.html

Related Resources
Children of Waco
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6AD5BFF28CBA4DA4
Inside Mount Carmel (12 parts)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5F885225D4F8EC4B

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Inside Mount Carmel (Part 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpbutTW3Dq0
Waco Survivor David Thibodeau
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9U3QsXCdlI
The Truth About Waco - Bob Trefz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WekSo0_AjE&t=47m27s

Opposing Views
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Ross_(consultant)
http://www.rickross.com/groups/waco.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/waco/waco9.html
http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2010/12/unrolling-of-scroll.html

http://www.movie2k.to/Ambush-In-Waco-In-The-Line-Of-Duty-watch-movie-992972.html

La secte de Waco (Film VF)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igh7KvxWdrs
http://killingthebuddha.com/mag/dogma/righting-waco-confessions-of-a-hollywood-propagandist

http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2010/12/unrolling-of-scroll.html#littlelamb
http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2012/04/aborting-abortion.html
http://njkproject.info/njk/hc_organization/gov/constitution/njkconstitution.html
http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2012/04/the-144000-kingdom-number.html
http://njkproject.info/njk/hc_organization/njknaming.html

http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2010/01/theological-views-commentary.html#polygamy

http://www.youtube.com/user/VoiceOfFirePodcast/videos?query=koresh
http://www.youtube.com/user/stevencrider/videos?query=koresh

http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2009/11/ministry-of-david-gates.html
http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2011/01/gods-whirlwind-judgement-on-sda-church.html

My Various Observations
Koresh’s Understanding of Luke 22:36
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knock-and-announce

Notelinks
Note #1 - Koresh’s Adoptive Children
Inside Mount Carmel - Waco, TX 1993 Pt 10/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBtPHKJv_S0

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Note #2 - DBD Koreshian Notes
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45976256@N02/sets/72157623090862786/with/4223893646/

Note #3 - Koresh-Doyle Discussion

The Sabbath Part C by David Koresh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaDdlc1pUIg
http://mtcarmellibrary.com/

Re-Defining Culture - Wes Peppers Sunday Morning GYC 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRRfj-lccj0&t=54m18s
http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2010/12/my-first-vision.html

Note #4 - Koreshians Fatal Flaws

http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2010/11/shaking-in-it-biblical-context.html#revelationchart
http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2011/10/primer-on-plagues-rev-8-15.html
http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2011/10/primer-on-plagues-rev-8-15-part-2.html

Note #5 - Jim Jones History

http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2009/11/ministry-of-david-gates.html#Jonestype
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Temple
http://www.centralspanish.org/
https://twitter.com/dasscherick/status/404364636935311360

‘Revolutionary Suicide’
The Jonestown Death Tape (FBI No. Q 042) (November 18, 1978)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkookcrAnSE&t=42m30s

‘immediate reward’
Jonestown The Life and Death of Peoples Temple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NQ5KBzD8w0&t=1h15m50s

‘manifestly’
The Final Report - Jonestown (Documentary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8VU2hbQVoI&t=32m15s

‘hid’
Jim Jones Jonestown Nightmare in Paradise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfht6DveCRc&t=31m56s

‘left’

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‘(priorly) fled’
Seconds From Disaster S06E02 - Jonestown Cult Suicide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdSW31qTa-A&t=22m32s

‘remotely abstained’
Jim Jones Jonestown Nightmare in Paradise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Q8upJa9dg&t=1m33s

Intelinks
http://njkproject.blogspot.com/2010/12/lessons-from-waco-1993.html#twoswords

Notes
1. [1] David Koresh did here [05:00ff] introduce children which he called his “adoptive
children”, though I am not sure how binding this was to his 24 elders theology. Also, as several
of his 12+ children he had then were girls, it would seem that he had no “ordination” issue as to
them also being part of these 24 elders.

2. [2] Cf. this sampling of post-Waco Incident ‘Koreshian’ notes by a Davidian Branch Davidian
adherent.

3. [3] The tone and substance of the questioning/debating throughout here [06:07ff] between,
apparently Waco Fire Survivor Clive Doyle (see in clip here []) and David Koresh during a Bible
study is quite interesting as it show, at least to me, that these Davidians were not necessarily
being authoritatively or manipulatively “brainwashed”, but were indeed always free to question
Koresh’s claims, and at least at this time Koresh calmly engaged such challenges to him. And I
personally believe that if Doyle maintain such a sincere spirit where he wanted to make sure that
what he was being taught by Koresh was in agreement with the Bible and SOP, that this may be
one of the reasons why he survived the fire. (In his judgement God does make a difference
between those who are sincerely seeking after truth but have been genuine deceived by others vs.
those who have an indifferent stance about truth but are really merely in a cause/denomination
for selfish/self-serving/convenient/profiting/base reasons, including most subtly, but
significantly, as it manifestly was the case with many in that Davidian compound, (contra. Acts
17:11) wanting someone else to do (all of) their Bible studying for them, and simply tell them
what the Bible says. That indeed is quite prevalent in Christian Churches and Denominations,
and really on two extremes of a supposed “Religious” one (e.g., in Roman Catholicism) and/or
an “too busy” one (e.g., in especially Western/Capitalistic Protestant Churches); -and also
including in the SDA Church (see e.g., the rightly diagnosing/depicting: ‘Celebrity,
People/Generation who Heard vs. People/Generation of the Word’ GYC 2012 sermon by Wes
Peppers [see 45:39-55:17ff]). Indeed SDAs, whether lay people or even leaders, typically just,
unquestioningly (at least insistently so), deferentially or indifferently, “swallow”/accept whatever
pastors and preachers, especially popular ones, claim from their pulpits. -As recounted in this
bio-post (see in “But Frankly Speaking” section), ‘being diligent to know the Bible for ourselves
instead of merely trusting/relying on Pastors and Teachers’ was the pointed theme of my very
first sermon.)

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4. [4] Other Isa 8:20 fundamentally-flawing issues with Branch Davidians in general, and the
“Davidian” sub-group that Koresh later went on to form, was them/him rejecting counsels in the
SOP against including specific time reckonings after 1844 (and error that some SDA still make),
manifestly thinking that the prophecies of Revelation were/could only linearly/sequentially be
fulfilled (see Revelation’s actual paralleling organization here), which is why he got hung up on
the post-Seventh (Laodicea = SDA) Church Rev 4-5, and the 7 Seals in Rev 6, and as far as I
know, does, at least with such emphasis, delve into interpreting the 7 Trumpets of Rev 8 & 9ff);
as well as him complete ignoring (for his key “Seven Seals” teaching) the contributions of the
historical “landmark” understanding and interpretation of Revelation by SDA pioneers. As seen
in this post and this one, though I, as attested by the multiple fulfillments of Christ’s Olivet
prophecies, also “similarly” have eschatological understanding for Revelation (and including for
the Seven Seals), I nonetheless have always known that they will be in typological and
hermeneutic, spiritual correlating agreement with the Historicist understandings/fulfillments, and
that these prior understandings do indeed provide a guiding basis for eschatological fulfillments.

5. [5] Though he is, contrary to popular/common assumption, on an actually completely different

tangent, Jim Jones and his Jonestown fate is an interesting study here, particularly as it may have
served as a tangible/documented precedent for how Federal Authorities decided to deal with
David Koresh and the Davidian Branch Davidians. See the video links below.
It’s worthwhile to emphasize that Jim Jones was indeed quite tangentially different,
pointedly Spiritually/Religiously, Ideologically, and much more than less, behavorially as e.g.,

(1) He was not at all an SDA. The only even remote linking that I have found is that one of his
former “Peoples Temple” Churches is now owned and occupied by a Spanish (Central L.A.)
SDA Church. (Cf. this quip by David Asscherick.)

(2) Jones actually openly declared himself to be an atheist. He long had no regards for the Bible
and even wrote a book against it.

(3) He always had plans to commit mass suicide “which he borrowingly termed, and probably
most honestly so: ‘an act of protesting “Revolutionary Suicide”’ paranoially claiming to his
followers that: “the world was just not ready yet for their classless, [marxist/atheistic]
communistic (initially “apostolic socialistic”) lifestyle”. Combined with their unbiblical view of
death being an immediate reward, (which was actually different than what the Branch Davidians
(except Koresh) believed), this made that suicidal action more likely and (by most, as some
protested and were (manifestly, literally, effectively or inherently) murdered (e.g, ca. 300
children), some others hid and/or left/(priorly) fled (and survived), or simply (remotely)
abstained (i.e. Jones’ son and teamates)) acceptable.

(4) It was well known that Jim Jones took hard “recreational” drugs. [I myself quasi-speculative
surmise, based on reports of him becoming increasingly slurry and sluggish towards the end, that
he may have had an undisclosed serious/degenerating (mental) illness.]

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(5) From his days at the People’s Temple in the California Area, Jim Jones was quite
unabashedly, indeed even manipulatively, a charlatan, with his false/staged miracle/healings.

Jim Jones Video Links:

Jonestown The Life and Death of Peoples Temple

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NQ5KBzD8w0

Jonestown - Paradise Lost (9 parts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11iF86_S8cM&list=PLA3875AE67B35AACB
more compact edition:
Jim Jones Jonestown Nightmare in Paradise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfht6DveCRc

The Final Report - Jonestown (Documentary)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8VU2hbQVoI

Jonestown Massacre - Stephan Jones

(Interview in Canada (CBC) with Jim Jones’ son)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJURAVi6wpA

Seconds From Disaster S06E02 - Jonestown Cult Suicide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdSW31qTa-A

The Jonestown Death Tape (FBI No. Q 042) (November 18, 1978)
Audio Tape during Suicides:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkookcrAnSE

Guyana Tragedy: The Story of Jim Jones

3-Hour Movie (in 1980):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf7sXP2T4PA

The Truth About Jonestown

Conspiracy Theory that: ‘the CIA did this to Black People’:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIkJkeDPK5Y

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