Shut Up and Take

My Money!

How to Read Your

Customers’ Minds So That
They’re Eager to Buy From
You

Allison Carpio
Shut Up and Take My Money

Created with:
90-Minute Books
302 Martinique Drive
Winter Haven, FL 33884
www.90minutebooks.com

Copyright © 2018, Allison Carpio

Published in the United States of America

180926-01193-2

ISBN-13: 978-1643200958

No parts of this publication may be reproduced without correct attribution

to the author of this book.
For more information on 90-Minute Books including finding out how you
can publish your own book, visit 90minutebooks.com or call (863) 318-0464
Here’s What’s Inside…
Introduction...............................................................1
Dialing In Your Avatar: The Power of One ......5
Step One: The Research Question ................... 11
Step Two: Select a Problem ............................... 13
Step Three: Select a Context .............................. 17
Step Four: Avatar Attribute Matrix ................. 21
Step Five: Interviews ........................................... 29
Step Six: Validate with a Survey ....................... 41
Step Seven: Dive into Goals,
Pains, & Gains ......................................................... 44
Step Eight: Think, Translate, and
Connect the Dots ................................................... 48
Step Nine: The Avatar Profile: How to Turn
Insights into Copy that Sells .............................. 54
Step Ten: Before and After
Copy Makeovers .................................................... 62
How to Get Crystal Clear on Your Avatar
So You Can Attract More of Them.................... 68
Introduction
We’ve all heard this from a marketing guru: do
the research and understand your customer.
But what does that really mean?
If you don’t know the answer, I don’t blame you.
Because no one would follow up this piece of
advice with how to do the research.
And that frustrated me. When I first got into
marketing over 7 years ago, I had no idea where
to start or what to do.
Even worse, these gurus would say: “Just go out
and talk to your customers.”
Now luckily, I’m outgoing and I like talking to
people.
But I had no idea what to say to customers! Or
how many to talk to. And I didn’t want to look
stupid in front of customers—or waste their
time.

1
So, I decided to figure this out.
In 2017, I worked with Bo Eason on writing their
email copy. The first step of the project is of
course to gain a deep understanding of the
avatar for their offer.
So I did what I do for every new client: I asked
them questions to find out who their avatar is.
To my surprise, they had no clue about their
avatar! What they knew was each one of their
customers wants to know how to tell their
personal story. Which is a fantastic start—some
businesses don’t even get this far.
What’s even more fascinating is, Bo Eason has a
high-end live workshop and high ticket
mastermind. His trainings aren’t cheap.
This is why I knew if we could only get our
avatar dialed in, we’d sell more of his high-ticket
offers AND gain more high lifetime value (LTV)
customers.
Luckily, Bo and his team had a live event in Santa
Barbara, CA. I hopped on a plane immediately to
attend—no way would I miss the opportunity to
talk to their avatars in real life, all in one place!
I ended up talking to over 10 avatars at this
event.
I created their avatar profile and presented it to
Bo Eason’s team—and it blew their minds.
That’s when I knew I was onto something.

2
Then, I ended up working with businesses like
The Art of Charm and T. Harv Eker to define their
avatar. Businesses who I assumed had this all
figured out.
Yet, they needed avatar help. And once they had
a deep understanding of their avatar, marketing
became so simple. They knew the exact
messages they needed to attract their avatar.
They knew the exact pains and problems to
speak to on their sales calls.
They knew why their sales copy nailed it, and
why it didn’t.
That’s the reason why I’m writing this book—
because I want this for you.
Plus, I remember feeling frustrated about not
knowing how to do this avatar research. Yet,
every marketing guru out there tells us to do it.
And I want to share with you a simple, easy-to-
follow research checklist that puts you miles
ahead of your competitors.
Any marketer can take this avatar profile and
know exactly how to write meaningful copy,
build a funnel, or create a product for this avatar.
This avatar profile lets you dive deep inside the
minds and hearts of your avatar. You can make it
a no-brainer for them to buy from you. And only
you.

3
So when it’s time to present your offer, they’ll
say, “Shut up and take my money!”
That’s my goal for you. Now let’s dive in!

4
Dialing In Your Avatar:
The Power of One
After finding the same mistakes across different
industries, I created a repeatable process. This is
how it all began.
When I started looking more at my top-tier
clients, I asked this question: “Okay, who else
doesn’t really have this dialed in?” None of them
really did. They had a successful business
because they were so good at what they did. But
if they only understood their avatar better, then
they could reach that next level. If you don’t have
an idea who your avatar is, or are trying to
appeal to multiple people, it makes your
marketing very difficult. And you miss out on
sales, because you can’t make your offer
irresistible. You get stuck in a plateau of growth.
Maybe you’re at seven figures and you want to
hit eight figures.

5
Yet, if you market to one specific avatar and
create your campaigns around it, getting to that
eight-figure level comes a lot easier to you.
What is an Avatar?
The best way to describe an avatar is a real
person who represents your ideal customer.
Notice that an avatar is a real life person, not a
group of people or a combination of people.
Ideally, if you already have a large customer
base, the avatar is already your customer. If
you’re just starting out, it could be a prospect.
The important thing is that it’s not a fake, made-
up, idealistic persona like they teach you on
HubSpot. I’m talking about real people, based on
real evidence and real data.
Once you know who your avatar is, and if you
clearly communicate that in your marketing, you
will attract more of those people.
Especially if you have a high-ticket coaching
service, whether you’re going to be working with
these people in a group setting or one-on-one,
you want to have that dialed in so you can work
with the clients you really want to work with.
Many of my clients have products with high price
points, so it really shortens the buying curve. It
makes your product a no-brainer. And your
marketing so much easier if you can speak the
customers’ language and speak to their pain
points. For example, one of my clients didn’t
exactly know the number-one problem their

6
avatar was trying to solve. All we had to do was
speak to that problem and show how we solved
it, which made it so much easier to sell their
$6,000 product. It made a huge difference in
their bottom line and their profits--all they really
needed was to tweak some of their messaging.
It’s not like their budget is increasing, by any
means. The marketing is simply tailored to that
one person.

What an Avatar is Not

When most people describe their ideal customer
avatar, they just whip out a bunch of
demographics: “My avatar is women from ages
30 to 60 who wants to lose weight,” or “women
or moms with a six-figure income,” or
“entrepreneurs.” While that’s a really good start,
it’s only skimming the surface. For most people
describing their ideal customer that way--
especially if your competitors approach their
avatar the same way--your messaging becomes
noise. Because it’s so vague, it becomes even
noisier because it’s not very clear or valuable for
your customers.
The example I like to use is from Tinder and
other dating apps. Lots of people will put on
their profiles, “I really like hiking, and I like
spending time with people that I love, and I like
laughing. I really like to eat good food.” That’s
great, but in California, EVERYONE loves hiking.

7
And who doesn’t like good food? Or people they
love? Or laughing?
Simply put, this type of profile doesn’t give the
other person a real sense of who you are. Just
like your competitors all have that same idea of
their avatar, everyone has a bland, vague profile.
Creating an avatar goes deeper into your
customers’ values, their feelings, and their
thoughts, rather than just their interests, their
age, the area where they live, or the amount of
money they’re making.
Many marketers use the Facebook audience
insights, which gives you a lot of the
demographic data. Which is great for targeting
on Facebook. But if you want your ads to convert
you need to go deeper inside their heads, inside
their hearts, and really walk a mile in their shoes.
That’s why demographic data won’t cut it for
your entire ad strategy.

One Common Objection

People often wonder, “Why should I choose one?
I don’t really want to close the door on any one
of them, or on anyone.”
I want to address this concern, because I hear it
all the time.
When you select just one person, it makes your
marketing easier and more effective. You gain
more customers, simply because you know how

8
to appeal to that one type of person. The very
first step when I work with clients is we select
that one avatar, and then dive in deeply—rather
than trying to define ALL the avatars they could
be serving.
Most businesses try to tackle their avatars all at
once. But it’s much easier to select one at a time,
learn as much as you possibly can, and then
move on. (I have a very good selection process
for that.)
Remember, by selecting one avatar, that doesn’t
mean you have to be married to him/her for the
rest of your life. You can change, evolve, or move
on. But for now, select one.
A very good example of a company that has
nailed this down is a $4.7 billion-dollar furniture
website called Wayfair.com.
Wayfair.com wasn’t always a huge store that sold
everything: couches, coffee tables, bar stools, and
kitchen stands.
Instead of having to compete with really big
players by trying to be a furniture superstore,
Wayfair started out by dominating one product
line at a time: one website for bar stools. Then
there was a website specifically for pillows, and
then a website specifically for frames or mirrors.
Eventually, the company combined all of those
lines into this really amazing website called
Wayfair.com.
It’s the same thing with avatars.

9
Focusing on dominating one at a time doesn’t
mean that you’re turning away other people. In
fact, I will show you how even selecting one type
of avatar will help you attract others
unintentionally.
To find that one avatar or market at a time, you
have to do your research. It’s not random, it’s
research.

10
Step One: The Research
Question
This is the part that surprises my clients.
At this point, you want to start with a big,
encompassing research question. This research
question guides you in what you’re trying to find
out.
Notice here we’re not jumping straight into
talking to people.
Instead, this research question gives you clarity
on what you’re looking for, which makes it easier
to figure out if you have the answers you need or
not. Because all too often, research can be this
big rabbit hole you can go down endlessly for
days, weeks, months, or years, without knowing
when to stop.

11
If this is your first time, you’ll likely have a vague
research question. And that’s okay.
Because once you continue to do more research,
you’ll have more sophisticated questions as you
learn more about your customer.
Here are some examples of a research question:
1. What does our avatar really want to
achieve?
2. What is our number-one problem?
3. Will our avatar gain the most value from a
course or 1on1 coaching?
You can see that these questions are quite open-
ended.
Having a blanket, all-encompassing question is a
good place to start, as long as the answers are
clear.
Now that you’ve identified your research
questions, it’s time to drill down into the
problem of your target market: What’s really
keeping them up at night?

12
Step Two: Select a
Problem
Our avatars have tons of problems.
They want more money. More love. More fame.
More happiness. More time.
And I have no doubt that you help your clients
solve multiple problems.
Yet, you want to select ONE single problem they
can’t live without solving.
Here’s where you list out all the problems, as
many as you can possibly think of, even if you
think they’re not relevant or they’re overlapping.
Just do a huge brain dump.
For example, I was working with a client in the
men’s dating niche. If you’re thinking the
problem here is clear—well, you might be right.
But here’s the problem.

13
My client asked their customers why they signed
up. And their customers would tell them all kinds
of different things:
“I want to feel more confident talking to
strangers and make more friends.”
“I want to get a promotion at work.”
“I want people to respect me and deepen my
personal relationships.”
…and so on.
Which are all true.
But they didn’t sign up with my client to solve
those problems.
So why would they say this?
Well first, there’s a lot of shame in admitting
they’re paying for help in their romantic life.
Second, they may not know how to say what they
mean.
Which is a pitfall of research—and I get into how
to decode what your customers say into what
they really mean in chapter 5.
Finally, a lot of my client’s customers saw
additional benefits when working with them—
like making more friends, getting in better shape,
earning a promotion, etc.
These are called realized benefits.
But the reason they initially signed up with my
client is different.

14
Rather, they wanted to find a partner.
Notice this is different from wanting to date
more women. These were men who were looking
for something more long-term. Eventually, they
want to get married.
People came to boot camp for those other
reasons, but finding the right partner was a huge
pain point for them.
Your clients will have tons of problems, but
there’s always that number-one big, burning
pain that they will look to you to solve.
Sometimes their #1 problem is obvious, and
sometimes it’s not. That’s why I have an exercise
I walk my clients through. Let’s say we’re looking
between finding a new job and finding a partner,
and then we rank the level of pain from one to 10
on each point. That gives us a way to quantify
each problem and see which problems are more
important than the others.
Using that example, let’s say finding a new job
and finding a partner are both pretty close.
Maybe they’re both a nine. However, my client
wasn’t specifically a career coach. While he knew
how to help his clients get unstuck at their
career, it wasn’t his #1 specialty. So if you’re
evaluating between two pains, choose the one
you can help your clients with the most. Because
that pain is the number-one pain they’re looking
to us to help them solve.

15
Now that you’ve nailed down the #1 problem
you help your avatar solve, it’s time to break this
problem down even further. Every problem
exists within a context, but which context is your
avatar in? That takes us to step three.

16
Step Three: Select a
Context
Identifying a problem actually isn’t enough. You
want to go deeper into the problem. Knowing the
context of your avatar tells you how they’re
trying to solve their problem, how they’re
finding a solution, and the different pains and
level of pains they experience.
That’s because there’s more to the problem than
just the problem itself. A lot of people often want
to solve the same problem. But each person is in
a different context, which means you can’t
market to every single person trying to solve
that problem.
By selecting one context, you narrow down your
avatar and your marketing to attract more of
them. And you make your offer to them
irresistible.

17
For example, a lot of people are looking for a new
job. But there are a lot of different contexts in
which people job search. For example, a stay-at-
home mom who’s looking to enter the work
force again is VERY different from someone who
is fresh out of college looking for their first full-
time job. And both of these people are different
from someone who has been working for two
years or so, who wants to make the next level up.
Maybe they’re a coordinator who wants to be a
manager, or maybe they’re a manager who
wants to be a director. Finally, another context
example in this situation is someone who wants
to enter a whole new field. So they have job
experience in general, but not field experience.
For other examples, let’s look at single men who
are looking to find a partner. One context is the
man who just moved to a new city and started a
new job, or he’s just getting settled into the city,
and he wants to find a partner. Living in a new
city comes with a whole set of other problems,
because he’s trying to establish his community.
He’s trying to establish a routine, and just
meeting as many people as possible. He’s trying
to make new friends AND go on dates at the
same time.
On the other hand, a common context in this
niche is someone who has just gone through a
breakup. Maybe he was in a turbulent
relationship or a long-term relationship that
didn’t suit him. He’s jaded because he’s fresh out
of a relationship. His focus is on getting over that
18
breakup fully rather than getting settled into a
new city.
You can see how in these two context examples,
the person who is new to a city and someone
who has just gone through a breakup technically
WANT the same thing, but they think differently
and experience different emotions.
For the sake of being thorough, one more context
for single men trying to find a partner would be
the guy who has just been casually dating for the
past year. He’s finally ready to settle down and
have a deeper connection. He’s sick of going on
first dates a couple nights a week, and wants
something more stable.
The marketing and messaging for those three
people are different depending on their context.
The way you position your solution for them and
the way you message them will be quite
different, depending on the context.
You could also see why one context might be
more ideal or have more of a burning pain than
another.
Someone who has just gotten out of a
relationship and is looking for a partner might be
in a different emotional state, might be more
willing to get a solution right away (and pay a
higher price points for it), than someone who has
just been casually dating.
The context that your avatar lives in gives you a
sense of what they’re experiencing. It helps you

19
to ask very meaningful and deep questions when
it’s time for an interview.
Context isn’t a very common concept for
marketers to consider, so that’s why it’s
extremely important.
Simply knowing an avatar’s context shows you
understand their problem better than anyone
else—including your competitors. And when you
have that level of trust, you make it easy for them
to whip out their credit card and pay to work
with you.
It offers a lot of clarity into the customer’s
position at the moment. We are always told to
join the conversation that’s happening in their
minds. Depending on where they are, and the
context, that will help you determine the
conversation happening in their mind.
A big part of that conversation is going on in
different people’s heads in different ways and
times. This is how we separate them: the Avatar
Attribute Matrix.

20
Step Four: Avatar Attribute
Matrix
In this matrix, we take two defining attributes of
the avatars that have been selected, and map
them on an X and a Y axis.
How do you select these defining attributes?
Start by mapping out all the defining
characteristics. For example:
• Ease of approaching women
• Level of relationship experience (has he
had a long-term relationship before?)
• Level of seriousness they want in a
relationship (if any)
In the men’s dating niche, let’s say our avatar is
looking for a partner (problem) and they’re
constantly getting friend-zoned by women
(context).

21
We defined the attributes starting with level of
extroversion. The way we’ve defined
extroversion is ease of talking to people. Do they
think it takes a lot of effort or very little effort for
them to talk to new people?
And for those who find it a little easier to talk to
people--maybe they can start a conversation
with someone, but they have trouble moving the
conversation forward. And therefore they
struggle asking women out on a date in that
conversation.
The second attribute would be whether they are
looking for a serious partner or to casually date.
Some other attributes we considered are how
experienced they are (i.e., the number of
relationships they’ve had). Have they had a
girlfriend before, or are they looking for their
first long-term relationship?
Another attribute could be age, because the older
they are, the more of a pain it is for them to still
be single. If they’re in their late thirties, of
course, they will be a little bit more willing to
figure this out as soon as possible.
In this instance, age is a good consideration,
given the problem and the context. The
difference is that we’re not just targeting age or
gender. It’s a way of plotting people on the
matrix.
In the end, we chose level of extroversion and
whether they wanted to casually date or find a

22
partner. We found these to be common traits
among their best clients. We put those on an X
and a Y axis. In each of the four quadrants, we
chose four real people we already worked with,
real clients who fit into a quadrant of that
matrix:

In the lower left is Jonathan, who’s quite

introverted and a bit younger. It takes a lot for
him to go up to people because he gets nervous
around new people. And because he gets
nervous, he tends to avoid these social
situations, making it even harder for him to
connect with women.
So it’s not only hard for him to keep the
conversation going, he can barely say that initial
hello. And because he’s so inexperienced in his
dating life, he also wants to casually date. He just

23
wants a couple casual experiences first before
settling down.
In the upper left quadrant is Nate. He is also a
little more on the introverted side, just like
Jonathan, but he wants more of a partner. He’s
ready to settle down and wants someone more
serious. However, it’s hard for him to meet
people because he tends to like his alone time.
He prefers being around people that he knows
very well, instead of meeting new people. So he’ll
avoid going to parties where he’ll meet new
people. Or he won’t meet new people at work or
at the gym where he hangs out.
In the bottom right is Matt, who is more on the
extroverted side. He finds it easier to approach
people, and he enjoys meeting new people. His
main problem is continuing the conversation,
and then turning that conversation into getting
their contact information, and then asking that
woman out (staying out of the friend zone). Matt
just wants to casually date right now. He’s just
gotten out of a relationship and isn’t ready to
settle down just yet, so that’s why he’s in the
bottom right corner here. He wants to meet
women and figure out what he wants.
In the upper right is Jake, who is a little bit more
on the extroverted side. Like Matt, he has no
problem approaching people. He does have
problems turning that into a first date, and then
a second date, and so on. Jake has an idea of what
he wants already; he wants to settle down a little

24
bit. He’s been on a lot of dates, mostly from
dating apps, so he didn’t have to do too much to
go up to any strangers. A lot of the interactions
happened online first, and now he wants to get
better at meeting women in real life and asking
them out, and then hopefully finding a girlfriend.
They’re all really great clients, and we would
love to attract any of these people. Each person
in the four different quadrants would be a great
avatar. And you can see that there are four
different subcategories of this avatar. That’s why
I ask my clients a few things to help them select
one:
1. Which of these clients do you most enjoy
working with? You want to enjoy working
with the people you work with.
2. Who can you help the most, by making
the biggest transformation?
3. Who do you have a lot of access to? Make
sure there is a whole market of the
person you select, a market ready and
willing to buy from you.
We landed on Jake because Jake is not so much of
a beginner that he needs help in just approaching
people. He needs a little bit more advanced help
as far as making a deeper connection with
women, and turning that into first, second, and
third dates and so on.
What’s also interesting about Jake is that he’s
already had one success using my client’s free

25
content. Now, he wants even more successes.
He’s also not so advanced that we can’t actually
help him.
Plus, he’s a pleasure to work with because he’s
willing to do the hard work, and he’s already hit
a milestone. He is willing to make even bigger
improvements.
Finally, there are a lot of Jakes on my clients’ e-
mail lists. Many Jakes have shown up to their
boot camp. They have access to a lot of Jakes.
Jakes eventually refer a lot of friends, so
ultimately, we arrived on Jake because he was
the perfect fit. We want to work with more Jakes.
Here’s another example of an avatar matrix for
my client who helps people start their own
business:

26
This client in particular had a variety of online
courses: one about mindsets, one about
marketing, one about finance, and one about
professional speaking. Because this client had so
many offers, his audience had tons of different
types of avatars. But which ones were the most
loyal? Which ones made the best
transformations?
Ultimately, we landed on those who want to be
speakers and already have a business started.
That’s because my client is a professional
speaker himself. So he knew he could give the
most value to people who also wanted to speak
for a living.
The third and final example I’ll give comes from a
B2B SaaS (software) client. They offer
outsourced customer support for direct-to-
consumer companies.
The problem is, there are plenty of direct-to-
consumer companies, so we narrowed it down:

27
I want to dig into the x-axis: Global Knowledge
Product vs. Niche Knowledge Product.
This attribute in particular is significant. If you’re
outsourcing your customer service, it’s a lot
easier to work with companies who have a
commonly understood product—like phone
cases or t-shirts.
But what about technical products? Like Wi-Fi
routers? Or custom-fit leather cowboy boots?
With niche knowledge products, training my
client’s team is much more difficult. And if they
have a large team, retention opportunity is low.
That’s why my client prefers to work with
businesses with smaller teams, offering global
knowledge products.
Now that we’ve found our avatar, we need to
move to step five, Interviews.
28
Step Five: Interviews
Notice that “interviews” is step five and not step
one.
Many times, without a system like this,
marketers would just go straight to the
interviews.
No research question and no avatar selection.
Without an avatar in mind, they won’t really
have an idea of what to ask, so they just go
straight to talking to tons of people, not knowing
what answers they’re looking for.
The problem is, not only are you not really
guided in your research, you’re not really sure
what you’re trying to find out. It’s like going on
dates and meeting people, not really sure what
you’re looking for and what type of person you
want.
Also notice we’re not sending out a survey just
yet. In the interviews, our goal is to get enough

29
insight so that we can ask meaningful questions
in a survey, and get deep, insightful answers
before blasting a survey to the entire list (which I
NEVER recommend!).
I want to get into a couple of tips for marketers
who are terrified of interviews.
I’m extroverted myself so you would think these
interviews would be easy for me. But at one
point I was terrified of interviews. I had no idea
what to say or what to ask, and I didn’t want to
seem stupid or annoying.
Prepare: Spend 10 Minutes to Make Your
Interviews 10x More Valuable
I quickly learned the old advice of showing up to
an interview with a canned list of questions is
NOT the way to do interviews.
Instead, I like to do my research on the person
before I even come up with questions.
Maybe the person that you’re interviewing was
on a sales call already with your clients, or has
already filled out an application form of some
sort. Usually, you can get some good insight on
that person before the interview, before you
even come up with the questions. That way, you
can tailor your questions to their situation. And
you can skip the small talk about what their
situation is, because you already know.

30
What Questions Should You Ask?
Next, I like to refer to my research question and
come up with related questions that get me
answers to my research question.
It’s not as easy as simply knowing the “right”
questions to ask customers—or Googling it.
The problem with pulling random questions
from a pool of questions is--it doesn’t take into
account what your research question is, and who
your avatar is.
Even worse—these questions are often crafted in
a way that won’t get you deep insights.
For example, let’s say an avatar you’re
interviewing recently went through a breakup.
Of course you’ll want to ask about that breakup
to get to their insights and their stories much
faster. Knowing they went through a breakup
ahead of their interview, you’ll ask questions
like, “When did the breakup happen? What
happened?” instead of, “Why are you signing
up?” or “What’s your #1 challenge right now?”
The two keys to asking meaningful questions
are: (1) do your research on that person before
you talk to them, and (2) refer to your research
questions to figure out the answers you really
want to find.

31
Build Rapport and Make Them Feel
Comfortable
At the very beginning of the interview, you want
to build some rapport. Make sure they know that
you’re human on the other end. That you really
want to understand them. That you’re curious
and there to listen. And that you have some
empathy for them.
This part is important because usually marketers
think, “Well the avatar is busy, so I should just get
straight to my questions.”
But that’s a trap.
When you build rapport with the interviewee,
you make them feel comfortable telling you their
deepest pains and thoughts. And that’s what you
want.
It can be as simple as saying: “Hey, I’m just here
to listen and understand you. I’m not here to sell
anything.”
I remember a few big challenges when I was
interviewing single men for the men’s dating
niche.
First, there is a lot of shame in society for men
who are seeking help in this area. Men aren’t
comfortable talking about this and admitting
they need help.
Second, as a woman, I am asking them about
their woman problems. Obviously, they’re not
going to be very honest right away. I had to be

32
extra careful and make sure that they felt
comfortable to talk to me about this—and tell me
the truth.
To make them feel more comfortable, one thing
that I would say is this: “Hey, I’ve been there
before. I went through the same thing you did,
and I also got help, so I totally get what you’re
going through right now. I’m just here to listen.”
That makes them feel very comfortable and
connected. They think, “This person gets me.
They won’t judge me because they’ve been
through my situation before. They understand
what I’m going through.”
Just make sure that you don’t go too far and get
too distracted, but spend a little bit of time
warming them up, even if it’s just, “Where are
you based out of?” or “How was your weekend?”
Things like that are really important.
Recently, I was on the other end of this. Someone
called to interview me as an avatar, and I started
trying to build some rapport by asking where
they were based.
They used a curt answer and didn’t sound
interested in the small talk. So they jumped right
into the questions. That set the tone for the
interview—because this is now a transactional
conversation. And of course, I didn’t feel
comfortable telling them the deep truth. And I
certainly felt like they weren’t really listening.

33
They were just there to ask their questions and
get their answers. Again, very transactional.
The Big "E" Word
Along with building rapport, you want to have
empathy and curiosity for your customers when
you’re interviewing them. You want to show
you’re curious to understand why they do and
feel the things they do. You don’t have to agree
with them. You just have to understand.
Otherwise, you’re judging.
And that’s the last thing we want to do with
customers. Because when we judge our
customers, we shame them. And shaming never
gets anyone to take action. So we would be doing
the opposite of helping them.
When I find myself judging a customer or lacking
empathy, I like to ask myself if I’ve ever
experienced this before.
I realized a lot of the time we judge someone
because we’ve been through their situation
before. We know what it’s like to be stuck.
Simply recognizing this helps me set my
judgment to the side.
And if you haven’t been through something like
that before, ask yourself, “Has someone that I
care about been through this before?”
So maybe you yourself experienced something
similar, but someone you love and care about

34
has. And that can be enough to set off some
judging.
The Smart Marketer’s Secret to Get the Naked
Truth
One mistake I always see marketers make during
interviews is asking open-ended “why” questions
up front: “Why did you do this? Why didn’t you
start your business sooner?”
First, immediately asking the question “Why?”
comes off as accusatory, even if you don’t mean it
to be.
In the book Never Split the Difference by Chris
Voss explains, instead of asking why during
hostage negotiations, he found it’s more effective
to say, “What is the reason for this? What made
you do this?”
So don’t start with why.
Instead, you want to ask factual questions first,
and then dig deeper.
Ask a factual, black-and-white question that
would make it hard for them to lie about.
Then you follow up with probing “why”
questions to get to some of the real insights.
For example, when I was talking to a single man
about his dating life, I wouldn’t ask him, “Why do
you have trouble asking out women?” because
that sounds kind of judgmental. Not only would
that make him feel ashamed and uncomfortable.

35
But honestly, who would answer this question
with the truth?
Instead, I asked a factual question like, “When
was the last time you asked a woman out?”
He replied with, “Oh, it was a year and a half
ago.”
That’s a long time ago! So I said, “Well, what
happened?”
He said, “It was a woman who was a friend of my
friend. I had met her at a party, and I had seen
her again at the gym. I invited her to go hang out
with me and some of my friends, so we
exchanged numbers. She didn’t show up, but she
had texted me, and apparently, I had pocket
dialed her like 10 times. I didn’t realize it until
later on, so now she thinks I’m a creep, and
whenever I run into her it’s really awkward.”
You can see that I got him to open up by asking a
factual question first, and then asking what
happened instead of why. And he gave me a good
story that TELLS me why he’s having trouble
with women.
From the story, we can tell he’s traumatized. He’s
having trouble asking out women because it
didn’t end well the first time, so that’s why he’s
coming to us for help.
As you see, stories give us the insight our avatars
can’t put into words themselves. They show us
the level of pain he experienced and how that’s
stopping him from getting what he wants.
36
Even though this is a specific story that wouldn’t
happen to 99% of people, a lot of people fear this
happening to them. No one wants to accidentally
pocket dial someone 10 times. And deep down,
the real fear is--no one wants to be the creep. So
that story is a really good one to tell and use in
your copy (I go over how to use these insights in
your marketing in Step 10). You want to tap into
people’s fears when you’re trying to connect
with them on a deeper level.
Shut Up and Listen
Finally, the last tip I have for interviewing is to
show them that you’re listening.
In other words…shut up.
Don’t keep shot gunning questions at them,
asking why, and then jumping to the next
question when they share something very
emotional. Look, it’s hard to share these things
with a stranger!
Let’s say you’re on a first date with someone, and
all they’re doing is asking you questions like an
interrogation.
It’s awkward, right? And it’s a huge pet peeve of
women.
However, there are so many other ways to move
a conversation forward than just by asking
questions. It also feels very transactional, so
that’s why you want to make the conversation
feel more natural.

37
In conversations and interviews, in general, I will
show that I’m listening by repeating back what
they had said, or the way I understand it. It
shows that I’m listening, but also gives them
clarity, like maybe I misheard it, and they need to
rephrase something.
Another way to show I’m listening is I’ll leave a
little pause. I’ll shut up. And often, they’ll want to
keep going and fill in the space. It’s a solid hack
that I like to use.
I’ll give you a real-life example. Right now, I’m
learning a lead-and-follow dance. That means
you have a dance partner, with someone leading
(usually a man) and someone following (usually
a woman like myself). Every single week, my
dance instructor tells the follower to wait for the
other person to lead. You don’t go and do a spin
or a turn yourself. You have to wait for the lead
dancer to guide you into a spin.
And guess what? It’s the same with these
interviews.
You want to wait and give a pause; let them
finish their thought, finish their story, and fill in
the space.
Naturally, if there is silence, humans want to fill
in the silence with something, so take a pause.
So, shut up. Show them you’re listening without
cutting them off. That way, they know they’re
being heard. And they’re more likely to tell you
even more. This is what you want.

38
How Do You Know When You’re Done?
Finally, people commonly ask, “How do I know
when I’m done with interviews?”
That’s a good question. Interviewing could be a
very big rabbit hole.
You can interview 100 people—which is far too
much. Or you could settle for one or two, which
is not enough.
This is where your research question comes in
handy.
Let’s say you’ve interviewed 5 people. Ask
yourself:
1) Do I keep hearing the same things? Are
the answers I’m getting not surprising or
predictable?
2) Do I have the answer(s) to my question?
If you answered “Yes!” to both questions,
congratulations! You’re done with interviewing
and can move onto the next step.
If not, keep going. Keep looking for prospects
and customers who can identify as the avatar
you selected earlier.
I like to start with at least five interviewees and
see where I am, and then keep going (depending
on what I’m hearing). By the end of the fifth
interview, maybe there will be a few insights that
totally threw you off, that you really need to dig
into more. That’s when you want to keep going.

39
By the end of the fifth interview, if you’re hearing
the same things without really being surprised,
that’s when you know you can move on from the
interviews.
This next step is pure gold: You need to validate
what you’ve been told.

40
Step Six: Validate with a
Survey
Ah, finally! The survey.
A lot of marketers will use the survey and only
the survey as their research tool.
Notice this is Step 6. And only one step.
That’s to say the survey does not replace ALL
research. And it’s not the ONLY form of research.
Rather, use the survey both to validate what you
have learned from the interviews and to see how
many people on your list fall into the category.
What Survey Questions Should I Ask?
By asking some really good questions in the
survey, you can get some really meaningful
answers.
What you learned in your interviews determines
what you want to learn from your survey. Also,

41
you want to keep your research question in
mind.
Before you formulate an open-ended question,
you will want to make sure you can identify your
avatar by their response. And that’s where the
filter questions come into play. These filter
questions should be as black-and-white as
possible.
Let’s say we’re teaching people how to start an
online business. And we’re targeting people who
have a full-time job they want to replace with an
online business. An example of a filter question
would be: “Do you have a full-time job?” If they
answer, “No,” it means they are not in the avatar
bucket. If they say, “Yes,” both because they are
at a full-time job and they want to start an online
business, they will fall into our avatar bucket.
Here are some other filter question examples:
• Are you a man or a woman?
• Are you single or in a relationship?
• How much revenue did your business
earn last year?
• If you went to a party and didn’t know
anyone, would you have difficulty
meeting people?
• Are you the primary breadwinner in your
family?
Along with these filter questions, you want to
add ONE open-ended question. Just one. And this
42
is where the meat of your survey will come
from—because this is where your avatar will
spill it all.
This is where you ask Ryan Levesque’s single
most important question: “When it comes to
__________, what is your #1 single biggest
challenge?”
And because you have filter questions in place,
you can look at the answers of your avatars—
rather than looking at ALL your customers’
responses.
Plus, you can see how many of your list members
fall into that avatar.
How Many Responses Should I Get?
Stop! Don’t blast your entire list. That’s entirely
unnecessary. You don’t want to spam your entire
list when a smaller sample is perfectly useful.
Instead, send out small batches of the email with
your survey link until you get 300 responses.
Depending on your list size and response rate,
start by grouping them into 5,000 or 10,000-
recipient batches. Remember, the goal is only
300. This is the magic number for a marketing
survey.
Now it’s time to dig a little deeper into all this
goldmine of insights we’ve gathered.

43
Step Seven: Dive into
Goals, Pains, & Gains
In this step, we dive into the goals, the pains, and
the gains of our avatar.
This is where I sit down with my client and ask
them all sorts of questions to dive into each of
these different categories.
Because we have survey data and interview
insights, we have more informed answers to
these questions. And I challenge them to dig
deeper into each pain, goal, and gain.
If this part was step 1, both myself and my
clients would have only vague or uninformed
answers.
You don’t want to make guesses here. Because
these goals, pains, and gains drive how you write
copy for the avatar. So if you nail this part, you
nail your copy.

44
What are goals?
Goals are the jobs or tasks your avatar wants to
accomplish. This could be in their business,
work, or personal life.
You can also think of goals as the problems
they’re trying to solve, the needs they’re trying
to satisfy, or the tasks they’re trying to complete.
Here are examples of questions that uncover
your avatar’s goals:
• What is the problem that he can’t live
without solving?
• How does her goals change based on her
context?
• What tasks is she trying to perform in her
work? Her personal life?
• What problems does he have he may not
even be aware of?
• What emotional needs is she trying to
satisfy?
What are pains?
Pains or fears are the things that keep your
avatar up at night. Pains give your avatar a
headache (or sometimes worse).
Pains stop your avatar from getting what they
really want. They can be in the form of limiting
beliefs, painful experiences, or dark emotions.

45
Here are examples of pain question that uncover
your avatar’s pains:
• If your avatar is lying awake at night,
what is she thinking of? What is she
worrying about?
• What risks does he fear?
• What mistakes does he make?

What are gains?

When I say gains, I’m not talking about building
muscle here!
Your avatar’s gains are the desired outcomes or
results he/she wants.
If you’re a weight loss coach, your avatar wants
to lose 10 pounds.
For marketers like me, my avatar wants to go
from 7 figures to 8 figures a year.
Here are examples questions that uncover your
avatar’s gains:
• What would make her life easier?
• What positive social consequences does
he desire?
• How does she measure success and
failure?
I have a whole questionnaire on these questions,
which help us to dig into the minds of our avatar.

46
By the end, we will have some real clarity into
the things that keep our clients up at night, the
things they really want to accomplish, and things
they dream of.
This is where the copy essentially writes itself.
And now we have an endless amount of email
hooks. We have a long list of content ideas that
attract and convert the avatar.
This really makes marketing simple and easy. I
usually dedicate at least a couple hours on
nailing this down. This could seem like a long
time—but remember this will save your life
when it’s time to write your copy!
After putting so much time into creating this
avatar, we need to figure out what to use and
how to use it, to create more business.

47
Step Eight: Think,
Translate, and Connect the
Dots
By this time, you have a ton of insight and
recorded interviews, which have been
transcribed. You have survey data to review. You
have the goals, pains, and gains worksheet that
you filled out.
This brings us to my favorite step: thinking.
This is the part where you decode what your
customers told you in interviews and surveys.
It’s where you connect the dots to find the
answers you’re looking for.
I like to go on walks and think. Some people get
their thinking done in the shower. Some go on
hikes. Some like to lock themselves inside a room
and think.

48
So find what method works for you. Test out
different approaches.
At this point, you want to carve out time to dig
deep into the qualitative data you have.
Which of the things aren’t clear, or what do
people really mean?
This is where you decode your avatar’s words.
Because if you can translate what our customers
say into what they actually mean…you will be in
business for a LONG time.
This special superpower determines if you build
a profitable business, or a total flop.
Oftentimes, we misread our customer feedback.
We take it for face value. So if we built and
marketed our business based on false
information, what does that mean for revenue?
I’ll give you an example.
One interviewee (let’s call him Nate) had
mentioned two major personal pains he was
dealing with:

1) Nate had just gotten out of a turbulent

relationship and wanted to find a partner
2) He didn’t really a core friends’ group. Nate had
spent his birthday with one girl he was dating,
because he didn’t have friends to invite out and
spend time with.

49
At the end of the interview, I asked, “If you could
wave a magic wand and solve ONE of these two
problems, which one would it be?”
Without hesitation, Nate immediately told me,
“The friends’ group, hands down.” He wanted to
make friends right away.
At first, I believed him and thought, “Okay, maybe
he’s telling the truth. He sounded sure about his
answer.”
But then I dug into Nate’s interview transcript.
There were a ton of subtle—and easily
overlooked--indicators that told me the truth:
• Nate already knew having a friends’
group would make him more valuable to
women AND he could meet women
through friends.
• Also, he had just gotten out of a
relationship, which was the triggering
event that made him sign up for the
product. Which told me that help in
finding a partner was a lot more
important to him than finding a friends’
group.
• Keep in mind—in the men’s dating niche,
there’s a lot of shame in admitting you
want help in skills with women.
Remember the survey in Step 7?

50
This shame was enough for Nate to tell me he’d
rather find friends instead of find a partner—
which we both know isn’t true.
That’s why it’s important to review the entire
interview and cross-reference with other
qualitative data you have. They could really
mean something else.
Now, it’s a good thing I can translate what this
guy said. Because if I didn’t, the client’s
marketing and product would’ve been
completely off!
If I believed what he told me, 1) my client should
lead with the messaging of improving social
skills vs. finding a partner, and/or 2) my client
should tailor their program around social
skills—or build a whole new product.
Another example comes from my dance class on
Thursday nights.
After dance class, we have a dance social where
everyone gets to practice. There’s a DJ, a dance
floor, and music playing like we’re in a dance
club.
Every week, without fail, there are a LOT more
women than men.
Every time I see the men in Tuesday’s class, I say,
“Hey, you have to come on Thursdays. There are
so many women you could be dancing with.
You’ll have tons of options. We need more men!”

51
I say this because I KNOW a lot of men start
dancing to meet more women. No shame in that.
So that’s why I tried to convince them to come.
And you know what they say back to me? They
say, “Oh, it’s kind of late. It’s at nine o’clock, and
I’m usually busy Thursday nights.”
I’m sure to an extent that’s true. But I finally
connected the dots with one very, very honest
man.
He told me, “Well, I’m kind of nervous because I
feel a lot of pressure as a lead, and because there
are a lot of women who are better than I am. I’m
just not good enough to go on Thursdays.”
A-ha!
That one guy translated it for all the other men
who aren’t showing up on Thursdays.
The leads (men) were too embarrassed to show
up to the social dancing. It’s easy to come to a
dance class, where they’re shown what to do.
But when it comes to dancing to music without
instruction? The pressure is on them to freestyle.
And that’s a LOT of pressure, especially if you’re
relatively new to dance.
No matter how much they want to meet and
dance with women…if they don’t feel “good
enough,” they’re worried they’ll embarrass
themselves in front of these women!

52
Here I was, thinking the way to get men to show
up on Thursdays was to tell them how many
women will be there.
But that’s not the pain I need to speak to.
Instead, I reassured them there were other
women who were at the same level. And that’s
when these men showed up on Thursdays.
Sometimes, you’ll get that golden nugget in
surveys or even an interview. There’s always at
least one person who helps you translate what
all the other people were afraid to say.
The final thing I like to do in this phase is review
the interview transcripts, and highlight all the
goals, the pains, and the gains.
I also highlight and annotate any of the stories.
It’s possible to miss some things during the
interview, so re-reading and highlighting certain
key points gets me to discover the gold!
And once you have the gold, it’s time to create a
plan to attract more avatars.

53
Step Nine: The Avatar
Profile: How to Turn
Insights into Copy that
Sells
In step nine, we want to put everything together.
We’ve gathered and prepped all our ingredients.
Now it’s time to throw it all in the cast iron pan
and cook up a delicious feast.
Here the different sections in the avatar profile I
deliver to clients:
Buying Moments
These are events that get someone to take action
to solve their problem.
Maybe he’s going through a breakup, or she lost
her job, or maybe they’re getting married.
Maybe someone went to a family party and their
mom said, “It looks like you gained weight.”
54
Or maybe they were passed up on a promotion.
By listing all of the different buying moments,
that helps you understand some of the things
that are a slap in the face to them.
And what do you do with these buying
moments?
First, you can use them in your advertising. Tell
stories that involve this moment.
If those stories are case studies, even better.
Take the most common buying moment and tell
the story of one of your clients who experienced
the same thing.
That way, your avatar will place themselves in
that story.
In your advertising, these buying moments are
often the stories you tell in your ads to grab your
avatar’s attention while they’re scrolling through
Facebook.
And it goes without saying—all these buying
moments can be turned into email hooks.
Existing Belief Systems
The second section is the existing belief systems
your avatar holds—that are relevant to the
problem they want to solve.
These belief systems are often known as
“limiting beliefs.”

55
These belief systems are the underlying source
of an avatar’s objection to buying your product,
and therefore solving their problem.
Which is why you want to 1) know what they
are, and 2) know how to overcome them in your
copy.
Here are examples of a belief system:
• All the good men are taken.
• People are born with confidence. So if you
don’t have it now, you never will.
• Money is the root of all evil. Rich people
are greedy.
Ask yourself: What beliefs are really holding back
my avatar from accomplishing what they want?
Goals, Pains, and Gains
The third section is the goals, the pains, and the
gains covered earlier.
This is where you list those three categories with
specific quotations from interviews.
Pro tip: Use first person when listing these out.
Bonus points if you can pull direct quotes from
surveys or interviews.
Especially if you’re emailing frequently, you’ll
always need an email hook. These goals, pains,
and gains will be your new BFF—and can easily
be email hooks. Pick a goal, pain, and/or gain to
speak to. Write an email about it. Bonus points if

56
you have a story related to it. Have a clear and
relevant Call to Action.
Interview Highlights
The fourth section includes interview highlights.
At this point, you don’t just summarize the
interview.
You want to highlight all the golden insights from
each interview.
I like to ask myself, “What can we learn from this
interviewee?” This question alone tells you what
exactly you need to highlight.
Also, refer back to your research question from
Step 1. How did this interview answer your
research question?

Products Features and Benefits

What are the features of your product your
avatar actually cares about? And what benefit
does it bring to your avatar?

The Painful Alternative

List all these alternatives out, as well as the
consequences of each.
Obviously, one painful alternative every business
can put down here is to continue doing what
they’re doing, and/or nothing.
But let’s get creative.
57
It could be listening to podcasts or reading
books. It could be your competitors.
Maybe your industry has a dark side, like the
pick-up artists’ industry in the men’s dating
niche group. That is a painful alterative, but WHY
is it painful?
Being thorough on the painful alternatives helps
you lay it all out for your avatar. You show them
all your options, and make your product the
clear, #1 choice.
I have a client who found this section to be
particularly useful when he was building his
offer. He wanted to make sure his offer was
different from the competition—because there’s
so much noise out there.

Enemies
The eighth section is the enemy, but it doesn’t
have to be a person.
It can be society.
It could be corporate America.
It could be big pharma (a common enemy for
alternative health businesses).
For someone who wants to start a business, an
enemy could even someone who really doubts
you.

58
An enemy could even be yourself; you could
sometimes be antagonizing yourself. You can be
your own enemy.
These enemies typically take the pressure off
your avatar. In your copy, you release the guilt
they have for dealing with their problem, and
transfer responsibility of their problem to an
enemy.
If you have either a widely common or unknown
enemy, this could easily be the hook and
headline for your sales page.

Messaging + Positioning
Here’s where I place the Unique Selling
Proposition (USP).
For your USP, you want to have a strong answer
for the question:
“If I am your ideal customer avatar, why
should I purchase from you over anyone else?”
This USP sets you apart and ahead of the
competition. And will need to be reiterated
(directly or not) throughout the copy on your
website, sales page, landing pages, ads,
emails….you get the idea.

Features + Benefits
What are the features included in your offer, and
what are the benefits of each?

59
A simple formula for this is:
It has ________, 1 to provide _________, 2 which
means _____________.3
Let’s take a look at vacuums as an example.
Years ago, I purchased a Dyson vacuum because I
was living in a crazy dusty apartment. (This was
before I learned all apartments get dusty if you
don’t vacuum it frequently.)
So I wanted to get the best vacuum out there.
And if you’ve ever shopped for a vacuum, you
know Dyson is the highest-end option available.
One feature in particular stood out to me:
Self-adjusting cleaner head1 seals in suction
across carpets and floors2 so your entire home
can be dust-free. 3
Now we’re talkin’!
At the time, I had huge rugs in my living room
and wooden floors in the hallway. So I didn’t
want to mop AND vacuum. This feature closed
the sale right on the spot.
Shut up and take my money, Dyson!
These features and benefits are your bullet
points or fascinations on your sales page. Simple
as that. You can copy and paste it into the section
where you introduce your offer.

60
Objections + Frequently Asked Questions
Finally, in the last section are the objections that
you need to overcome.
Have all of them listed out, because you’re going
to have to overcome these things in your copy, in
e-mails, in sales pages, and webinars.
And if you don’t have an FAQ section in your
sales page, now you do.
With all of these things together, you have all the
pieces of a full sales page (with the exception of
case studies).
Now, creating a marketing strategy and writing
copy becomes so much easier. In fact, 80% of the
copy has already been written here.
In the next chapter, you’ll see a before and after.

61
Step Ten: Before and After
Copy Makeovers
In the previous chapter, you learned how to take
the clarity you have on your avatar and turn it
into brand new copy.
Now I want to show you before and after
examples of revamped copy. So you can see these
avatar profiles in action.
The first example is an email that’s part of an
automated email sequence.
The offer is a high-ticket training for single men.
They had an email sequence for new opt-ins. And
these opt-ins listened to their podcast anywhere
from 1 month to 5 years.
The problem is, the emails in this sequence
lacked emotion. They glazed over the avatar’s
deepest pains and strongest desires.
Here’s the before:

62
The core message of this email says, “We’ll help
you get unstuck.” But getting unstuck could
mean a lot of things! It could mean you’re stuck
in your career or your dating life. You could be
stuck where you are with your health. It could be
anything.
At the bottom, it says, “If you’re ready to stop
spinning your wheels…” Well, what does that
mean? Is the avatar lying in his bed thinking, “Oh
man, I really wish I could just stop spinning my
wheels,” or, “I’m just spinning my wheels, and I
can’t figure it out.”
After I walked this client through the avatar
process, finally figured out what our avatar
wanted to accomplish AND how to say it—
without sounding like a sleazy Pick-Up Artist
business.
This is the after email:

63
Ah, the clarity!
Notice we tell a story about a guy who, when he
talked with women, was really afraid of being
creepy--which was a very big pain we discovered
in the goals, pains, and gains exercise.
Even worse, he was so in his head about when to
show interest…he would often miss her signals,
and she would think that he wasn’t interested.
Unlike men, when women think that you’re not
interested, they move on.
Therefore, he would miss opportunities to ask
out women. He became frustrated, thinking
women aren’t into him.
This is a very clear description of a very common
male experience, so if you’re a guy reading this
email, you’re probably thinking, “How many
times have I missed the signals? How many
opportunities am I missing out on?”

64
That’s why we want to get as clear as possible
and talk to the pains and tell that story. This
spoke to the pain point of being creepy, and then
missing out on signals, and then missing
opportunities to connect with women.
You can see the difference between the two
emails.
So, which email do you think performed better—
the before or after?
The second example I want to show you comes
from best friend and consulting client Nadia.
Nadia is a coach who works with women of
color.
Now even though women of color are not new…
targeting them specifically as an avatar for
coaching is new. This in itself is a marketing
challenge.
And that’s why we had to get crystal clear about
the avatar, and how Nadia serves them.
When people asked Nadia what she did, Nadia
used to say, “I help women of color be
empowered and dream big.”
If you’re unclear what that means, you’re not
alone. Nadia received puzzled looks. And she
would have to explain and clarify what “being
powered” and “dreaming big” means. That is, if
they asked.

65
Nadia helped her clients with a wide range of
problems. This is usually the case for coaches
who are awesome at coaching.
But if you remember in Step 2, to dominate one
market, select ONE problem to identify your
avatar. It doesn’t mean you only solve that
problem—you want to select the most pressing
problem for your messaging.
We nailed down the one problem and context for
these women of color: they had trouble
communicating like a leader at work. They
lacked influence in their role, which meant they
were passed up for promotions and raises.
So her pitch went from:
“I help women of color be empowered and
dream big.”
To…
“I help women of color become leaders at
work.”
The second pitch has a result. By the end of the
time you work with Nadia, you’ll be a badass
leader.
This clarity alone helped Nadia rewrite her
About Me page copy:

66
BEFORE

AFTER

Boom-shaka-laka!
Compare the clarity of the Before and After
About Me pages. In the After page, you can see
how much Nadia shows she gets her avatar.
And now, she can attract more of these avatars.
All because of that avatar clarity!

67
How to Get Crystal Clear
on Your Avatar So You
Can Attract More of
Them…
You already have a large audience. You have
happy clients who are thrilled to work with you.
You’ve helped them get the results they dreamed
of. Now the hard part is attracting more high-
paying clients you’d love to work with.
That’s where I come in.
I help marketers like you get a deep
understanding of who your avatar is and tailor
your marketing around them. That way, you
make major gains to your bottom line working
with dream clients.
A lot of marketers don’t end up doing this
because in truth--it’s a lot of work. And they’re

68
often too close to the product--so it’s hard for
them get clarity and nail down their avatar.
That’s why I can do all your research for you. As
a result, you’ll have these avatars begging you to
take their money.
It’s never too late (or early!) for research. In fact,
the earlier you have these golden insights, the
better.
If you’d like me to help, send an email to
allison@allisoncarpio.com and I’ll take it from
there!

69
Here’s How to Get Crystal
Clear on Your Avatar So
You Can Attract More of
Them…
You may already have a good idea of what
avatars your audience consists of. But which one
should you dominate first? And how do you get
more of these avatars begging you to take their
money?
That’s where I come in.
I help marketers like you get a deep
understanding of who your avatar is and tailor
your marketing around them. That way, you
make major gains to your bottom line working
with only customers you love.

70
Step 1: We hop on a call and select your avatar
using my special avatar matrix process.
Step 2: I take the reins from here. I’ll interview 5
of your avatars and dig for their deepest desires
and pains. Then, I’ll design a survey to send out
to a small portion of your list.
Step 3: We have a more in-depth call digging
into your avatar’s mind based on the insights I
found from interviews and the survey.
Step 4: I construct an in-depth avatar profile that
works as a map for your marketing and copy
strategy.
A lot of marketers don’t end up doing this
because it’s a lot of work. And they’re often too
close to the product--so it’s hard for them to
think bigger picture.
That’s why I can do all your research for you. As
a result, you’ll know exactly how to gain more
customers and make more money.
It’s never too late (or early!) for research. In fact,
the earlier you have these golden insights, the
better.
If you’d like me to help, send an email to
allison@allisoncarpio.com and I’ll take it from
there!

71