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The Big Interview

Episode Number: 305
Episode Title: Daryl Hall
Description: Hall of Fame singer Daryl Hall talks about his music career and his passion for
restoring old homes

ACT 1

Private Eyes by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)

TONIGHT ON THE BIG INTERVIEW…HE CATAPULTED TO FAME BY BLENDING HIS

VOICE IN THE MOST SUCCESSFUL DUOS IN POP MUSIC HISTORY. SINGER,
SONGWRITER, DARYL HALL.

Maneater by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

HE SANG THE SONGS THAT DEFINED A GENERATION AND LIVED THE LIFE OF A
ROCK STAR.

RATHER

Well, during this period, the money's flowing, you're having hit records, concerts are sold out
everywhere. You fall into drugs?

DARYL HALL

No.

RATHER

Women?

HALL

Yeah, of course (LAUGH). Sex, drugs and rock and roll, just drop the drugs out and you got it,
you know?

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

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BUT YOU WON’T FIND DARYL HALL PINING AWAY FOR THE GLORY DAYS OF
YESTERYEAR. HE’S TOO BUSY NOW FORGING INTO THE FUTURE...WITH A HOME-
IMPROVEMENT SHOW ON CABLE...

Did It In A Minute by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

AND ESPECIALLY HIS CRITICALLY-ACCLAIMED ONLINE MUSIC PROGRAM

CALLED LIVE FROM DARYL’S HOUSE.

HALL

The internet has changed everything. It's a new world, and if you try and fight that, it's like--
you're gonna lose. It's-- that's the way it is. I see my own generation tryin' to hold onto things
that-- are unholdable. And-- too bad for them.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

FOR AN ARTIST BEST KNOWN FOR HIS HARMONIES, HALL CERTAINLY HAS
CHARTED A PATH THROUGH LIFE THAT HAS BEEN ALL HIS OWN.

DARYL HALL, TONIGHT ON THE BIG INTERVIEW.

ACT 2

Kiss On My List by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)

IF YOU WERE EVER NEAR A RADIO IN THE LATE 1970s OR 80s, THE
UNMISTAKABLE SOUND OF DARYL HALL AND JOHN OATES WAS LIKELY WOVEN
INTO THE SOUNDTRACK OF YOUR LIFE.

Say It Isn’t So by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

THE MUSIC STORES SOLD THEIR RECORDS UNDER THE BANNER OF “HALL AND
OATES”, BUT THIS BEST SELLING MUSICAL DUO OF ALL TIME WAS MUCH MORE
T HAN JUST TWO FAMOUS LAST NAMES.

YET FOR ALL THEIR POPULARITY BACK THEN, MANY MUSIC CRITICS DID NOT
GIVE THEM ENOUGH CREDIT FOR BEING THE MUSICIANS THAT THEY WERE...
AND ARE...BUT NOW, AFTER FOUR DECADES IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS, HALL AND
OATES ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS IMPORTANT CONTRIBUTORS TO THE STORY
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OF AMERICAN POPULAR MUSIC. IN 2014 THEY WERE INDUCTED INTO THE ROCK
AND ROLL HALL OF FAME.

RATHER

Did you restore this place?

DARYL HALL

Yeah I did. It was really a--a wreck and especially in the interior.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

I RECENTLY MET UP WITH DARYL HALL AT THE LOCATION OF HIS LATEST

PASSION - A REFURBISHED RESTAURANT AND LIVE MUSIC CLUB NAMED,
SIMPLY ENOUGH, DARYL’S HOUSE.

IN 2007, HALL LAUNCHED AN INTERNET MUSIC SHOW FROM HIS ACTUAL HOME
IN NEARBY IN NORTHWESTERN CONNECTICUT. HE WANTED A PLACE FOR
MUSICIANS TO JUST COME AND HANG OUT - TO DO THEIR THING, THE IDEA
TOOK OFF. ALL SORTS OF FAMOUS GUESTS HAVE STOPPED BY. THE SHOW HAS
BECOME A CRITICAL HIT AND FAN FAVORITE.

NOW HALL HOSTS THE SHOW FROM HIS NEW CLUB. AND AS WE SAT DOWN
THERE TO TALK, I REALIZED THAT MORE THAN ALL THE FAME - DARYL HALL IS
FIRST AND FOREMOST A MUSICIAN’S MUSICIAN.

RATHER

Thank you very much for doing this.

DARYL HALL

My pleasure.

RATHER

Have you had any fun lately?

HALL

Have I had any fun? I-- well, if-- if you wanna call opening this club fun, I don't-- I don't know
if I'd use the word fun, but it-- it's certainly interesting. It's been non-stop tryin' to-- you know,
devote myself to the focus of tryin' to get all the little nuts and bolts happening in here and
getting bands in here, and makin' sure the food is right. I've never owned a restaurant before let
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alone a club-- music club, so it's-- it's a challenge, and it's interesting, and I guess it's fun in its
own way (LAUGH).

RATHER

I guess it's fun. Well, tell me where we are and-- to the uninitiated in the audience, where are we
here?

HALL

We are-- about an hour and 15 minutes north of New York City in-- southern Dutchess County.
And I've lived in-- Connecticut and Dutchess County area now since-- oh boy, 1979. So it's
been a long time I've been around here, so I'm very, very much a part of this-- this area. And--
I've known about this particular venue-- it-- it was-- it was sort of a folk music club for years and
years. And I always-- I used to come down here occasionally and see bands and-- and-- artists,
and I always thought, "Okay, if it ev-- if it ever comes up for grabs, this would be a good place to
do it-- to do a club-- my style." And also in the meantime, I had the show Live from Daryl's
House, which continues now, and I wanted to sort of have a venue that would represent the
show-- the-- that I'm doing, and actually have-- the same bands that play on my TV show-- have
them perform here in front of an audience. Because I usually do my-- I-- in fact, I always do my
TV show without an audience at all. So this allows people to actually see a version of Live From
Daryl's House in the f-- you know, sort of in this physical situation.

RATHER

And it's brand new.

HALL

Brand new. I've-- I did it all myself, m-- me and my-- partner Joey, nuts and bolts, hammers and
nails, the whole thing.

RATHER

(LAUGH) Well, let's talk about music for a--

HALL

Okay.

RATHER

--moment. Listen, you and John Oates in the Rock Music Hall of Fame, widely considered the
greatest rock duo in the history of music, and not just because you sold a lot of albums and had
hit singles, but because you had real influence in were of importance. Those are facts. But do
you think of yourself that way?
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HALL

Well, you know, I-- I hate-- I hate labels. I-- I mean, yeah, I'm-- I'm very happy and proud to be
considered-- considered to be that-- that kind of a person, or-- that kind of an act, you know? I
mean, John and I are-- we're unique. I-- I really believe that we are truly unique in a lot of ways.

Number one, we're unique because even though we're perceived as a duo, we're really two very
separate people, and we've always worked separately. Very seldom did we really collaborate.
Now when we did collaborate, boy, we had Maneater and Out of Touch, and-- and-- a number of
other songs that we literally wrote together.

But the majority of our songs were separately, and our lives were very separate. We appeared
together on stage, and other than that we're very-- two very separate people. But having said
that, you know, there's something about the-- the-- the-- the duality of us that-- I don't know, it's
just a unique relationship that really works. We egg each other on, it never gets stale. It-- it's--
it's constantly evolving and -- yeah, it's-- it's all this-- it's always something new going on, and--
you know, it's a good thing, you know?

How Does It Feel To Be Back by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

RATHER

But I wanna talk about being known as a duality; a lot of people think of you as sort of-- as one.
Yes, it's a duo--

HALL

Yeah.

RATHER

But it’s one. But you and John had made a point, you wanna be known by your names.

HALL

Yeah. It was always called-- you know, from the very beginning people tried to, you know,
truncate it, "Hall and Oates, Hall and Oates, Hall and--" we always said, "No, it's Daryl Hall and
John Oates." You know, it's two people. You know-- that was very, very important to us, and
for the reasons I just mentioned it's very important, because we are so separate. And we never
wanted to be-- I-- if you really wanna make me angry, s-- say-- that, you know the-- treat me like
I'm half of something. You know, I'm not half of anything. You know, we're both our own
individual entities that choose to work together.

RATHER
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By the way, did you think in the beginning about the double meaning of Hall and Oat-- Hall and
Oates (LAUGHTER), like-- a mule hauling oats or something?

HALL

We've had so many different ones, man. Hauling Oats -- one time we went into-- we went into a
place in Texas and they had us booked as Harland Oakes (LAUGHTER). Yeah. We get-- we
get 'em all. We get 'em all. It's-- it's a-- it's all part of it. I think it's funny (LAUGH).

RATHER

Well, it's generally known that among musicians as well as television anchor people--

HALL

Yeah.

RATHER

--that you have to have a certain ego to do it.

HALL

Uh-huh (AFFIRM).

RATHER

But down somewhere deep does it bother you; does it irritate you, to be considered-- as two
rather than one?

HALL

That's sort of what I'm sayin'. I don't like to be half of anything. It's-- hey, it's-- it's a choice we
made way back when we were kids, and-- it's worked for us, it's-- it's evolved. It's-- w-- our
relationship has-- has allowed us to be very separate, have separate lives and separate projects,
but-- you know, if people wanna perceive us-- as a certain thing, they want-- we wanna be the
Hall and Oates thing, yeah, that's okay too.

RATHER

Well-- let me get back to some basic questions, then. As a musician, who are you?

HALL

Well, I am a lifer, number one. I-- you know, I started as a baby-- I come from a musical family.
Started as a baby as a musician, I learned-- my mother was a s-- vocal teacher and sang in a
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band. My earliest, earliest memories are-- are-- are watching bands play and-- and-- goin' on the
road, things like that. Singin' in church, like, you know, I'm a soul singer. I mean, I-- the-- I
come from Philadelphia and-- or outside of Philadelphia really, and-- and I came up in a
neighborhood where that was the music of my childhood. And so that's-- that's very natural to
me to do that. So I called myself-- you know, I'm a-- I-- I went to music school, so I'm a trained
musician, but I'm a soul singer at the same time. Songwriter, I don't know, all those things.

RATHER

Is there one piece of music, maybe one tune, one song when you were a child, when you were
coming up, that affected you more than any other?

HALL

I wouldn't say there's any one song, no. But it-- it's-- I was-- I was really-- moved at an early
time by-- as a really young kid by-- by church music, gospel music and-- and-- harmonies. My
father was-- sang in-- vocal group, so I was really, really in-- I've always been really into-- into
harmony. And-- any of those kinda songs. And then of course that-- that translated into the
secular world, where I was-- listening to early-- doowop music, and early R&B, and all these
kinda things, because-- it’s very heavy on-- on the harmony, the same kind of harmony. So it's--
it's always been things like that. I can't say there's one song, but it's that style of music that--
that's always really moved me and interested me.

RATHER

Well, especially interested in the gospel music influence. Any one piece of gospel music, any
particular hymn that stood out in the early going?

HALL

Oh, I don't know man-- there's so many. I-- I-- I-- you know, I-- I was lucky enough-- I mean,
not to not answer your question, but I was lucky enough to-- to work with-- with the Blind Boys-
- they came on my show.

RATHER

Blind Boys of Alabama--

HALL

Of Alabama. And when I was about 12, I was crazy about them, I mean, because again, that
harmony thing. And-- I would -- I would actually leave the church I was in and sit out in the car
and-- and-- and-- and listen to the gospel stations and hear that stuff, because I liked what was
goin' on there better than what was goin' inside the church. And the Blind Boys were one of the
ones that I was so-- I was completely nuts about. So to work with them-- was-- I had-- was one
of those great moments, you know?
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Go Tell It On The Mountain (CLIP)

ACT 3

She’s Gone by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)

FEW ARTISTS HAVE HAD SUCH A RUN OF SUCCESS AS DARYL HALL AND JOHN
OATES. THEIR UNIQUE SOUND - A SMOOTH BLEND OF SOUL, POP, AND ROCK -
DREW LEGIONS OF FANS AROUND THE GLOBE - STARTING WITH THEIR FIRST
NUMBER ONE HIT- RICH GIRL IN 1977.

Rich Girl by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

FROM THE MID -70s THROUGH THE 80s, HALL AND OATES LIVED AT THE TOP OF
THE MUSIC CHARTS.

Private Eyes by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

THEY HAD AN ASTOUNDING 16 TOP TEN SINGLES - WITH 6 HITTING NUMBER

ONE.

Out Of Touch by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

IT WAS A GOLDEN AGE FOR AMERICAN MUSIC - ONE WHERE RECORD SALES
WERE ABUNDANT, AND MUSICIANS HAD A LOT OF ARTISTIC FREEDOM. DARYL
HALL AND JOHN OATES WERE RIGHT AT THE CENTER OF IT ALL.

RATHER

What has changed the most from the-- let's say the glory days-- you're in a glory period now.

DARYL HALL

In a different way, yeah.

RATHER
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But-- that glory period, say, the late 1970s into the 1980s, how has-- first of all, how has the
music changed?

HALL

Well, the music was a little more—complicated; I think that's the right word-- as was my life
then. I mean, what-- what we were doing in the '70s-- and we-- we-- we always made use of the
technology that was available. And in the time that we came up the act of making music was ch-
- had-- was really evolving.

In the '70s, I had the first polyphonic synthesizer. Now what that means is it's the first time
where you could actually control the sounds of-- you know, whatever-- n-- you know, you had
the-- every sound -- that was possible to make. But you could do it in a polyphonic way as
opposed to single notes. That means you could play it like a keyboard. And that-- that made a
big difference in music. It took it to another place. And then there was all these different things
that were coming in the recording world, that we added to our arrangements and even-- in our
writing style, both together and separately that -- that reflected in our music. So the-- a lot of the
songs happened because of the technology that was around at the time. And I think now that's all
past. That's-- that-- that wave has sort of crested, and now--

RATHER

Excuse me, that wave started with the-- sort of at the end of disco, as disco was beginning--

HALL

Yeah.

RATHER

--to fade.

HALL

It was around that time, yes. It was that time where it changed from people just playing in a
room, a bunch of getting' in a room or whoever, getting a room and playing music, and-- and--
and putting it down on-- on a tape.

And then these things started changing, and you could actually create a much different sound on
your own, and you didn't need the other people really if you didn't wanna use them. But now I
think we're back to using those things if you wanna use them, but I think I-- personally back into
guys getting a room and playing. You know, so it's sort of come full circle in that respect.

RATHER
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How has the music business changed?

HALL

Well, that's changed. It's-- again full circle, not in a good way. But-- when I started out, pretty
much-- you know, I started out in Philly on indie labels, you know, they were just-- they were
run by-- you know, one of the big-- one of the-- the labels was run by a guy that-- that had-- a
clothing store on South Street in Philadelphia. Very low-budget records, very indie thing, you
know, what people call indie now. And then as time went on the music business started trying to
control the artists more and more and more and more, and to not a good effect. And you could
sort of h-- the-- the music got more corporate and-- and-- and it-- it sort of lost a lot of its
freedom. And then the indie thing reemerged, because it almost had to. And that sort of t-- took--
it-- it-- it was sort of a bridge to take us to more what's happening now, where everything's--
fallin' apart, which is great. I love that (LAUGH). And the internet has changed everything, and
now-- if you're-- I-- I wouldn't sign to a major label you-- you couldn't pay me enough to sign to
a major label, because it-- it-- why-- why do that when you have all the freedom to do what you
wanna do, whether you're a new artist or an established artist like I am?

RATHER

You said- quote, “the Internet has changed everything.”

HALL

Yeah.

RATHER

Let's expand on that a little.

HALL

Okay. All the gatekeepers are gone. People-- the-- the audience controls things. What-- what
people like, no matter whether it's old-- it could be a 50 year old song, or-- or older, or-- or it
could be a song that's just been created yesterday. It's all the same. I mean, I have kids, and
that's the way they listen to music. They don't-- they don't listen to the radio, they-- they listen--
they pick and choose things, and there's no time involved in it, and-- and-- they-- they just like
what they like. And all the labels are goin' away, and all-- you know, all the gatekeepers are
gone. R-- r-- rock-- rock journalism is a bad joke at this point. Record companies are shooting
themselves in the foot as we speak-- they don't know what they're doing, they're lost. You know,
I-- I-- I'm-- I have-- I'm in the forefront of-- of takin' music to the internet. I'm-- you know, my
show Live From Daryl's House was the first show to do this.

RATHER

This is a cable television program--

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HALL

That--

RATHER

--For those--

HALL

--yeah, which--

RATHER

--who don't watch the--

HALL

--which is an internet show. It started on the internet. The-- and it was-- eventually explained to
the-- to the-- to the television world-- enough that they picked it up, and then it became a
television show as well. But this really was an internet show, and it was-- it was, if I may say,
you know, it was groundbreaking. It was the first one. And I don't really think anybody's done it
since then to the-- in-- in-- in the way I've done it.

Alright by Darius Rucker (CLIP)

RATHER

The key to the success of the program is you explained music-- music business to a whole new
generation of people.

HALL

That is part of it, because we have our little dinner conversations, and that's part of the show. I
think that that's a continuing theme, is-- is you know, the new-- especially-- the new artists.
Well, I have the-- you know, I have veteran artists on as well, but we're always talkin' about how
the-- the-- how to deal with the music world.

Live From Daryl’s House (CLIP)

You know, they talk about reality shows, this is a really re-- a real reality show. We don't
rehearse, we don't do multi-takes, we just do it. And that-- that's a real internet show, you know,
and that's the new world of-- as far as I'm concerned.

RATHER
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But-- you smiled a moment ago when you spoke of it, and you said you love it. I've spoken to
any number of musicians who are-- some of them admittedly, but clearly fearful of this new
world.

HALL

If you're a fearful person, or if you're not thinking-- you know, you-- you have to roll with it,
man. It-- you know, it-- it's a new world, and if you try and fight that, it's like-- you're gonna
lose. It's-- that's the way it is. I see my own generation tryin' to hold onto things that-- are
unholdable. And-- too bad for them.

RATHER

Could a young musician, say the 15 year old Daryl Hall, could he make it today?

HALL

Yes. Yeah, because if they had-- if they thought like I did, they'd be Daryl, right-- they-- they
would figure out how to do it. They'd figure out how to go around and get to where they needed
to go. Now-- yeah, I'd say yes.

RATHER

And what advice would you give that aspiring, ambitious, pretty good musician who's 14, 15
years old, and who dreams of being a Daryl Hall?

HALL

Oddly enough, I would say the same thing I always s-- would've said, and that is get a band
together and-- and get a tribe. You know, play. Play live, play live. Get people to really like
you, get-- you know, expand your tribe, keep doing that, keep doing that, and be very, very
focused. Have good people around you, don't get screwed up by people who wanna take pieces
of you and-- you know, and-- and-- and that dilute you or whatever. Be pure-- be tough. And
learn your craft.

I Can’t Go For That by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

MORE OF MY DISCUSSION WITH DARYL HALL…WHEN WE RETURN ON THE BIG

INTERVIEW

ACT 4
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DAN RATHER

You mentioned before, quote, “the Philadelphia sound.” What is the Philadelphia sound?

DARYL HALL

You know, Philadelphia is probably one of the most southernmost of northern cities. It's-- and--
and-- and it-- it’s demographic, you know, English and German and Irish and Italian, and a lot of
black influence. It's all comin' together. And the sound really does reflect that. It's afro-
European sound, you know? And-- there's-- there's different-- sort of different subsets of that,
you know? There's-- there's-- you know, when-- what Kenny Gamble (PH), Leon Huff (PH),
and Tommy Bell (PH) did-- was-- and I was part of that in the beginning, and they-- they created
a sound. And a lot of people in the world think, "Okay, that's the sound of Philadelphia." -- Like
a few other regions of the United States, it has a very distinct thing goin' on.

RATHER

And there are subsets within that distinction--

HALL

Uh-huh (AFFIRM).

RATHER

--and yours is one.

HALL

Yep.

RATHER

I've heard the phrase-- and if this offends you, then you tell me, but it's not my phrase. The
phrase-- blue-eyed blues.

HALL

(LAUGH) Yep. It-- you're-- you're not offending my b-- by saying it, but I-- I find that term
naïve-- because it's not-- it's not about white and black. American music is a combination of--
of-- of all kinds of influences, and you can't racially divide it. You can't say blue-eyed soul or
brown-eyed opera. You can't do it, 'cause it's impossible. And you can try, but it-- but it's just a
silly label, and-- it is irrelevant.

RATHER
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What were the principle influences on you? Let's say The Temptations?

HALL

Yeah. I was-- again, this Philly guy, and The Temptations and people like The Temptations
came into town, and I-- there was a place-- like the Apollo Theater in New York, but there was
one called The Uptown Theater in Philadel-- in Philadelphia, and I was pretty much a regular
there.

And I got to meet all the bands, I got Smokey Robinson, and-- and I'm talkin' when I was 18
years old. And-- Curtis Mayfield, and-- you name it, everybody. They're all comin' in and out of
town. And I would be backstage, and I-- you know, I-- hang-- literally hanging out with 'em.
And I became friends with The Temptations. I'd get 'em coffee and carry their stuff around, you
know-- all that stuff. And-- I-- I you know, and-- and they were a big influence on me, personally
and musically.

RATHER

Driving here today, I listened to some of The Temptations' music--

HALL

Uh-huh (AFFIRM).

RATHER

--I listened to some of your music, and I thought that even I, completely unschooled and
uninitiated, could hear the progression from The Temptations into your own music.

HALL

What you'll hear especially is it's heavy on the vocal harmony. That's what I was talkin' about
before. And it all came from church singin'. You know, the-- that's-- that's-- that-- that's-- that's
gospel music. That's what The Temptations' background was. And-- and the-- so we shared that,
and-- and yeah, melodically and everything. And I mean, I'm a-- I'm a child of all that stuff.

RATHER

Now, let's talk about your relationship with John Oates.

HALL

Uh-huh (AFFIRM).

RATHER
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Where did you meet him and how did that come about? How did the two of you get together?

HALL

I met John-- I was doing a-- promoting my first single. I had a band-- I-- I had a group called the
Temp Tones-- and we were--

RATHER

The Temp Tones.

HALL

--Temp Tones. Not because of The Temptations, 'cause we were goin' to Temple University.
And-- 'cause everybody thinks it's Temptations. So it was a vocal group, and-- we had-- we had
a single-- that we were promoting around the Philadelphia area, and we were doing-- one of
those things where you would go-- it was-- it was a complete R&B crowd.

And everybody would lip synch their song. And-- and John had a single, and I didn't know him
at the time, and he was also there to promote his single. So we-- we were waiting backstage and
some fight broke out or whatever, and the whole show just went to pieces. And-- (LAUGH) was
cancelled. And-- we-- we-- we were on a s-- we were on a second floor, and we went down in a
lift together, and in an elevator, and I said hello to John. I said, "Hey, how you doin'?" And that
was it. And I found out he was-- he was also a freshman at Temple, and-- so then we-- we
started talking and we realized of course we liked the same kind of music, and-- we started
sharin' apartments together, because we were both-- our parents lived out-- out of town and we
didn't wanna be on campus. So we became sort of college roommates playin' songs together, in
and out of bands together. Again, working very much separately as well. And then after college
was over is when we decided to try writing songs together, and be Daryl and John.

RATHER

So-- you graduate from college, you did graduate.

HALL

Actually, I didn't. I-- I quit six weeks before graduation.

RATHER

Wow.

HALL

I know. It was one of those weird things. I-- I-- was-- part of it-- I was-- music major and part
of the-- at-- in those days-- part of the requirement to-- get your degree was-- was student
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teaching and doing all these things, and I was-- I was doing that. I was student teaching at a
junior high school, and playing in a-- in a bar band at night to try and make money and also
because that's what I did, you know? And my supervisor-- got me in her room, and she said,
"Look, you have to make your choice. You're either gonna be a-- you're either gonna be a
teacher or you're gonna be a live musician, and you can't do both because it-- you know, the--
you can't-- work till 4:00 in the morning and then get up and teach kids at 8 o’clock. It's your--
it's-- it's your choice." I said, "Okay, you really want me to make that choice?" And I walked
out of the room (LAUGH), and that was it.

RATHER

And that was the end of your degree.

HALL

That was it.

RATHER

Now John, did he graduate?

HALL

He did graduate. He was journalism major

RATHER

Oh wait--

HALL

--journalism.

RATHER

--so you graduate and-- but you stay together.

HALL

Uh-huh (AFFIRM).

RATHER

You're writing songs, you're performing together.

HALL
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Yep. We were doin'-- just around the Philadelphia area, we were-- we-- we decided to literally
be just a songwriting duo, and I had a-- man-- I picked up a mandolin. I don't know why, but I
did, and-- and I had a Wurlitzer piano, and John had his acoustic guitar, and we would just play--
we-- we would-- play either songs we'd written separately or together-- just the two of us. And
we'd play these little places, coffee houses, and-- you know, 75 seat places, whatever.

RATHER

Your early albums weren't a success, certainly not by the standards of what became your
standard later on.

HALL

Uh-huh (AFFIRM).

RATHER

When and how was the breakthrough?

HALL

Well, it took us time, the first record we made-- with Atlantic records, it was sort of all these
songs that we had compiled-- you know, it was a-- it was a grab bag of things that we had been
writing since we were-- all through college. And it w-- you know, it was-- all over the place.

So I-- I understand why that record didn't do anything. We didn't have any singles on it or
whatever. And then we had Abandoned Luncheonette, which w-- was very successful, but it sort
of had a funny b-- a slow burn success. We didn't have any big single when the album was
actually released, even though "She's Gone" was on-- on Abandoned Luncheonette. And people
talk about that album still as being what they consider one of our best albums. But it didn't have
that obvious single, or maybe the world wasn't ready for us at the time. Who knows why? You
know, y-- these things are strange. And it took a couple of years after that album was released to
re-release "She's Gone" and have that song be a hit-- hit song. But-- it was-- we were allowed t--
you were allowed to experiment and allowed to fail actually, in those days. It was good. It was
a good time to be creative, because you could-- you could do really what you felt and you didn't
have that pressure of, "Oh man, no singles in that. Okay, drop 'em. That-- that-- next. Bring the
next band on." You know, it was a little more loose.

RATHER

But you do break through--

HALL

Yeah.
 18

RATHER

--You begin to have one hit album after another. Hit singles all over the place. You're having
enormous success; you're making a lot of money.

HALL

We were makin' money. I don't know how much we were keepin', but we were makin' it
(LAUGH).

RATHER

Right. Well, that's where the question was going. What happened to that money?

HALL

I-- you got me. Ask other people, man. The-- I-- I don't love the music business. You know, it's
a funny thing--

RATHER

The business. You love the music, but not the business.

HALL

Exactly. I've always had-- an adversarial relationship with the music business. You know a lot
of-- strange things happen in the music business. I don't mean to call it a business, it's-- I mean,
I-- I hate to say this. Maybe I shouldn't. I don't know. I mean, music business, I-- I-- is m-- it--
to me, this-- it's-- it's closer to organized crime than it is to a business. Because it's based on
exploitation and thievery. Even at its best, it is. You know, the-- the-- the artist is always the
one that gets the-- the-- the scraps. And-- that's just the way it's always been. And-- you don't
really make-- the truth is I've found-- is you don't really make that much money from the actual
records; you make the money from playing live. And that's where my income has always-- you
know, we've-- we've been live musicians for years and years--

RATHER

Fair to say it's one reason you still do it?

HALL

That is one reason I do it.

RATHER
 19

Well, I'm interested in this. I envisioned you and John each getting checks for $1 million every
other week or once a month or--

HALL

Well--

RATHER

--every three months.

HALL

--if we did, I didn't see that million (LAUGHTER), you know. I mean, a lot of the money was--
I don't know. I-- it's-- it's hard-- it's really hard for me to talk about this, because I don't wanna--
I don't know. But it wasn't handled very well, it w-- by-- by other people. And-- and I blame-- if
I-- if I-- put any blame on anybody, I put the blame on John and I for not payin' more attention to
things in those days. Now we've changed considerably, but-- you know, we didn't know what we
were doin'.

RATHER

Well, during this period, late '70s and the '80s, you're having hit records, concerts are sold out
everywhere. You fall into drugs?

HALL

No.

RATHER

Whiskey?

HALL

I did some drinkin' but nothin'-- I-- I've-- I've always been a pretty controlled person. I-- don't
like drugs. I mean-- I won't say I never took drugs, but I-- I don't-- I don't like 'em. They don't
agree with me. And nor does-- with John either. I mean, that's one of the reasons we're still
coherent and here we are, you know? I-- it's just never had the-- really that much appeal to me.

RATHER

Women?

HALL
 20

Oh yeah. No-- yeah, of course (LAUGH).

RATHER

Almost the question doesn’t need to be asked if you’re in rock and roll that’s going to be part of
it.

HALL

Yeah, well. Sex, drugs and rock and roll, just drop the drugs out and you got it, you know
(LAUGH)

Maneater by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

WHEN WE RETURN ON THE BIG INTERVIEW, THE STORIES BEHIND SOME OF HALL
AND OATES’S BIGGEST HITS. THAT’S COMING UP…

ACT 5

Adult Education by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

DAN RATHER

I'm gonna go back to some of the-- the hit tunes and how y-- how they came to be. And the list
is so long we can't possibly go through the whole list.

DARYL HALL

Yeah, you--

RATHER

But let's just go through it. "Rich Girl?"

HALL

"Rich Girl" was a song that came out of-- my-- companion-- long-term companion, Sarah Allen,
had-- college boyfriend, and he was a-- you know, I-- I-- I-- I-- I exaggerate things a lot. There
was actually-- you know-- the-- he was perfectly fine, but he came from a f-- fairly wealthy
background.

RATHER
 21

--Was a he, but the song is--

HALL

Uh-huh (AFFIRM).

RATHER

"--Rich Girl."

HALL

So he-- he left, and I said-- I sat down at the k-- piano and went, "He's a rich guy, and he's gone
too far." And then I went, "No, that doesn't work.” (LAUGH) So I changed it.

Rich Girl by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

RATHER

Fair to say that was your first big hit?

HALL

Yeah, it was. That was our f-- that was the first-- first number one hit.

RATHER

“Kiss on My List”

HALL

"Kiss on My List" is-- is-- I wrote with Sarah Allen's sister, Janna. It was-- really the first time
we ever sat down to try to write a song. And she was only about 20 years old, 21 years old, and-
- I sorta was tryin' to write it for her, because she was thinkin’ maybe she wanted to cut a record
or something. And we s-- we s-- made up "Kiss On My List." It was-- we just-- it just happened.
So that was a real collaboration between Jana and myself, and-- and the weird thing about it is
that I played it for people, and they said, "Oh, well you-- you gotta put that out." And I went,
"Okay. Should I recut it?" And they said, "No, it sounds great the way it is." That was just the
demo that we did, the four-track demo, using this really silly-- drum machine. But I guess the
simplicity of it and somethin' about it, it just really worked. And a lot of people liked it.

RATHER

Fair to say that cemented your reputation as a popular act on the climb up?

HALL
 22

Yeah. I think that-- that song and that album w-- was-- album was called Voices that was the
first album that John and I had p-- self-produced with our band. And I think that really changed
things. There was-- that was-- a big change in-- in the way John and I made music.

RATHER

"Maneater."

HALL

"Maneater" was a song that-- John came up with the-- original chorus of that song, with the--
which is-- not uncommon, for him to come up with-- a chorus idea, and then I would expand on
it.

RATHER

Excuse me. For those of you who don't know the m-- how does the chorus go?

HALL

(SINGING) "Oh, here she come. Watch out, boy, she'll chew you up. Oh, here she come." Then
he went, "He's a man-eater." And da-da-da-da. And I went, "no, no, forget that da-da-da-da bit”
(LAUGH)

Maneater by Hall & Oates (CLIP)

HALL

He actually came up with it as a reggae song, and it was-- it-- (SINGING) "Oh, here she come,"
that way. You know, and I said, "No, I-- I--" for whatever reasons, I said, "Why don't we just--
no, let's-- let's make it more like a motown kinda feel." So I put that other beat to it (IMITATES
BEAT), that way. And that's-- that's how you hear the song now, as-- as opposed to a reggae
song.

RATHER

Well that didn’t work out all that badly.

HALL

He’s not complaining.

MTV Video Music Awards 1984 (CLIP)

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

 23

HALL AND OATES WEREN’T JUST FIXTURES ON THE RADIO OR IN THE DANCE
CLUBS - THEY ALSO POPPED UP REGULARLY ON A FLEDGLING NEW CABLE
CHANNEL... CALLED MTV.

I Want My MTV Commercial (CLIP)

RATHER

Do you remember when MTV started? Now, did they come to you? You come to them? How
did that work?

HALL

The first day, it was one of those simultaneous situations. We had a video, and they needed
videos, 'cause they didn't know what they were doing. It was really interesting with MTV in
those days, because it was not unlike the way-- the-- the sorta early internet days. It was-- it was
pioneer times. You know, things were happening, it was seat of the pants stuff, you know? Like
the early days of television or whatever, I-- you know, I-- I'm a big fan of that kinda thing.

And -- and I-- and I like to watch things in their beginnings. And-- and I was there for that. And
I mean, they would give us-- they'd say, "Well, we got four hours to fill, why don't you guys be
d-- VJs?" And so we would just go there, and they'd give us-- a playlist, and-- and we would just
talk. We had no script, we had no nothin'. And-- and we would just do whatever we wanted to
do, and say, "Oh yeah, by the way here's a Duran Duran video," or whatever. You know, and--
and that's how it was. And it was-- it was really fun. MTV was really cool.

RATHER

Did you think at the time, "This is gonna be big, and we're gonna ride it?"

HALL

Yes, I did. I could tell immediately that this was-- I mean-- but the result was immediate, so it
wasn't that hard to figure out. It was perfect for its time, perfect for the generation that wanted to
watch music as well as hear it. And-- it was just the right place at the right time, and if-- I-- I
could feel it. I could-- I could feel it in the air.

RATHER

Did your concert business skyrocket upward after that?

HALL

Yeah, absolutely--
 24

RATHER

Because of that?

HALL

--everything changed. I mean, it was-- we were right-- the forefront of all that, and-- and one of
the most played video artists. We were VJs on there, we-- we pretty much-- we were helping to
run that channel, really.

RATHER

In the mid-80s, one could argue at the very peak or your popularity, you and John in effect
walked away from it.

HALL

We didn't-- I wouldn't say we walked away, but what we did was we paused. I felt-- and I-- I
won't say "I felt," John-- John felt it too. It w-- there was-- we had sort of been at the center of
the-- eye of this hurricane, and it's-- it had a real feeling of culmination-- that culmination being
the-- the "We Are The World" LiveAid, which happened in 1985.

Then at the exact same time, within weeks of that, we had done this s-- the-- and compared to
that, this was a minor thing, but it was significant to us, we reopened the Apollo theater in New
York City with the Temptations. We decided to bring the Temptations on stage and do this.

Ain’t To Proud To Beg by The Temptations (CLIP)

HALL

That to me, me personally, was a full circle. And I was-- I sort of-- John and I sort of said,
"Where are we gonna go from here? You know, what-- we can't just keep doin' the same thing.
We’re gonna get diminishing returns." And we sort of went separate ways that way. But--

RATHER

That was what year? About 19--

HALL

19--

RATHER

--85?
 25

HALL

--85, '86. Yeah, yeah. And so it wasn't a separation. It was just that we--we wanted to scramble
things up. But I think that-- as far as the-- if you were to look at it from an audience standpoint,
it-- it-- we definitely were up here in 1985 and then the-- the late '80s it was sort of goin' down
this way. And I think in the '90s we were sort of in-- in-- in a trough. That's how I feel. As far as
popular appeal goes.

RATHER

And how'd you get out of the trough?

HALL

Well, I-- I sort of-- again, sort of walked away, to some degree. John and I always played live.
And we'd always come together and-- and tour and do things. But I was spe-- I was-- spent pretty
much the entire '90s in England.

RATHER

So when, why and how did you decide to come back?

HALL

We had this song called “Do It For Love;” we had a hit with it. It hit with it. So that sort of
perked people's eyes. You know, it was like, "Oh, wait a minute. There's Daryl and John." You
know, we hadn't-- you know.

RATHER

Oh, they're back--?

HALL

Yeah, you know, in those days radio was still the-- the standard you judged everything from.
And that sort of gave us another shot in the arm. And then-- between 2000 and-- you know, for-
- for the next six, seven years or whatever, where were doin' a lot of touring. And-- regained our
popularity, I think, as-- as a really-- as a touring band. And we were sort of feeling good about
all that. You know, it was-- it was-- we were in a nice place. It was-- it was good. We weren't--
we weren't being superstars but we-- we had a great following and we-- were sellin' out concerts
and we were doin' just fine. And then I had the idea to do Live From Daryl's House. And that's
really another thing altogether.

RATHER
 26

Now, you had that idea. You decided to do it. Was that or was that not your vision of how you
could stay in touch with your fan base?

HALL

It was a lot of things. It was me realizing that you could to it. That was the first thing. I said,
"Okay." I was with my good friend T-Bone, my guitar player, bass player. And we said, "Why
don't we just-- let-- let's just sit on the porch and play songs and let people hear it and we'll do
whatever." And that was the concept, really, as far as it went. And then we-- immediately started
expanding upon that and we-- we get-- had the band and then we said, "Oh, why don't we bring
guests in?" And then we had guests. And I said, "Well, you know, we need to eat food because
we're at the house and havin' a party so let's-- let's bring (LAUGH) in guest chefs." And it really
evolved naturally like that. And it-- it clicked with people. People loved it. And still do. And it--
it-- I don't know-- there's something about it. It's-- it's-- it's-- sort of this breath of fresh air in a
very artificial world of entertainment. We're gonna just do whatever happens and let the world
see how musicians-- act when they're just hangin' out as friends and not worried about anything.
There's no audience. So I think that that really appeals to people. And I think that that is the
engine that's generated a whole new perception of not only me but Hall and Oates. You know?
And opened up whole new worlds for us.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

COMING UP DARYL HALL SHOWS ME HIS LATEST PASSION…THAT’S JUST

AHEAD…HERE ON THE BIG INTERVIEW.

ACT 6

DAN RATHER

Tell me about this area.

DARYL HALL

Ok. Well, this area – we’re in Dutchess country right now and there’s a lot of farm land around
here...

DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)

TO APPRECIATE WHERE DARYL HALL IS TODAY, IT HELPS TO COME OUT TO

WHERE HE LIVES - THE RURAL, ROLLING HILLS ABOUT AN HOUR NORTH OF NEW
YORK CITY. HALL LOVES HISTORY - AND THIS PLACE IS STEEPED IN IT.

HALL
 27

I grew up in an old house. So I--I--knew these houses.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

HE ESPECIALLY LOVES THE OLD HOMES HERE - MORE SPECIFICALLY RESTORING

THEM UP TO THEIR ORIGINAL GLORY.

HALL

You know -- all these houses were handmade. You know, this is pre industrial stuff, so
everything, every latch was banged out by somebody

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

THIS PASSION HAS TURNED INTO A SECOND CAREER -COMPLETE WITH HIS OWN
VINTAGE HOUSE RENOVATION PROGRAM ON THE DO IT YOURSELF - OR D.I.Y.
NETWORK.

Daryl’s Restoration Over Hall (CLIP)

HALL

So this is the house by the way, we’re coming up on it here. This is all my land.

RATHER

Beautiful setting

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

TODAY, AT AGE 68, HALL SEEMS TO BE KEENLY AWARE OF THE ARC OF HISTORY
- THAT TIME PASSES FOR ALL OF US.

RATHER

So when did you buy this house?

HALL
I bought this house about 3 years ago. But the story is my sister used to live just on the other side
of the wetlands here and this house was abandoned. We used to hang around this old house here
and so fell in love with this house. I mean, we’re talking 1980, 81, something like that.

RATHER (VOICE OVER)

HE SPOKE EXCITEDLY OF THE FUTURE -HIS LATEST RENOVATION PROJECT, - OF

BREATHING NEW LIFE INTO THAT WHICH HAD BEEN OLD AND FORGOTTEN.
 28

HALL

This house is –is early Federal. It has that Georgian thing, that—that beautiful palatial window
and everything.

RATHER

Those are original, are they?

HALL

Yeah. This part of the house is completely original and that whole upstairs is a ballroom. So, it’s
quite nice up there.
RATHER

I’m smiling because you don’t think of having a ballroom in your house (LAUGH)

HALL

I know, I know. Well, it’s my bedroom now (LAUGH). I don’t know what it’s going to be.

RATHER

Well, you've mentioned your interest in history a number of times. Has it occurred to you -- you
and John will be very much a part of the history of American music?

HALL

I'm starting to believe that now. I-- I'm-- I'm happy to know-- to feel that that's real. I realized
that-- again, with-- with Daryl's House that I had crossed over a generational gap that a lot of
people don't do. They-- they're part of their generation and they stay with that. And-- and I think
once you cross a generational gap it-- it-- it changes your-- the impact you have in-- in the world.
I guess we are part of history. We'll see to what extent.

RATHER

One could make a case-- I'm here to make the case that this is as a successful period as you've
had. And, let's face it, you've had a lot of them. The internet program you started has now found
a home in-- in cable. You have your own home house restoration program--

HALL

Right, right.

RATHER
 29

--on cable. The music is still-- excels. You still tour. From where does this determination
come? Let's face it. You could clip coupons and live-- (LAUGH) live a nice, easy glide life.

HALL

I don't know. I just have a reactive mind. (LAUGH) That's the best way I can put it. My sister
asked me that the other day. She goes, "Where did you get this from?" You know, and I think I
got it from my father. You know, he was a very determined man and-- but very focused person.
I learned how to work. I'm a hard, hard worker. And I'm not afraid of work. I'm not afraid to
take on things.

RATHER

I'm particularly interested in that because some people have a stereotype of musicians not being
very hard workers. You know, they play and they stay out late and they sleep late.

HALL

I like to work. I actually enjoy it. And I-- I-- and I do agree with you that a lot of people that I
have come up with, they don't have my work ethic, that's for sure. I mean if they-- you know, I
think a lot of people rely on-- you know, the wind in their sails of their past success. You know?
And it just kind of blows them. And-- and if that wind-- is less windy (LAUGH) then they slow
down. You know? They don't really have-- they don't really have that kind of drive. Or if they
did they've lost it. You know? But I have never lost that drive.

RATHER

In your personal life, from childhood up to now, what's the worst thing that-- happened to you?

HALL

The worst thing? Well, one of the worst thing-- that-- it's-- it's-- I mean, getting Lyme Disease is
no fun, I'll tell you that right now. I'm living with it perfectly fine. But it's-- it's-- it's-- it's-- it
be-- became a factor in my life. You know? 'Cause Lyme Disease, when you have chronic Lyme
Disease, it-- it-- it-- it's-- it's there forever and there's no cure for it. At least right now. So it-- it-
- it interferes with things. You know, it-- sometimes I have stamina issues and things like that.
So I had to change-- change my life a little bit because of that.

RATHER

And you got Lyme Disease when?

HALL
 30

Oh, about-- around-- almost the same time as the-- as I started the Daryl's House-- 2006,
somethin' like that. Yeah.

RATHER

I'm an outdoorsman. I love the outdoors. I know about Lyme disease. It's nothing to kid about.

HALL

Nope. People don't understand. I mean if-- if you-- if you it goes chronic in you there is no cure
for it right now. And-- and you have to maintain it with-- with supplements and-- and to some
degree-- occasionally antibiotics and things like that. It's kind of like havin' malaria. You have
flare ups and things like that.

RATHER

What's the very best thing that's happened to you?

HALL

Oh, man. The best thing was havin' my parents and-- and havin' my family and learning and be--
from the age of zero how to do what I do. And havin' that kind of support-- over the years,
which continues to today. You know? My mom's my biggest fan. She comes up to the club. I
mean-- you know? And-- my whole family's that way. And-- and-- and the-- I have-- I've been
very lucky to have people around me that are really good people.

RATHER

You spoke very well of your father. He's passed, hasn't he--?

HALL

Yeah, he-- yes, this year. Yeah.

RATHER

But how proud your mother must be of you?

HALL

Oh, very. And-- I'm tellin' ya. She loves it. (LAUGH) She's-- she's always sayin' things to me
about it. It's-- it's great. I'm-- I'm-- and that makes me happy.

RATHER

This has made me happy

 31

HALL

Oh thanks,

RATHER

You’ve been terrific, I appreciate your time.

HALL

Thank you.

END TRANSCRIPT