Atthe risk of starting to sound obsessed by what, in his eyes, is the ancillary question of Women priests, there is just one more thing Twantto dear up. Are there any circumstances “Moore can forescein whieh his "more o less neutrality about women priests could became something more positive? “IF YOU ARE GOING to work through to ‘women’ ordination, you need to ground tin unity and development, notin people shouting that women must be equal in every respect. If people much wiser than me came to the conclusion that women could be priests, Tam not going to kick up a stink about it” ‘Thenced tore-examine our ideas of priest: hhood before deciding yes or no on women's ‘ordination s, Ipoint out, a postion he shares with many in the Catholic Women's Ordination movement. Fam ~ misehievously ‘wanting to provoke a reaetion, uncork the ‘Charles Moore of his Telegraph columns, and see his Conservatisin in matters political is ‘matched by a conservatism in church polities, “Thave* he replies firmly, “serupulously avoided eurch polities” ‘Which is not something you could say of Margaret Thatcher, about whom, ater three volumes and more than two decades of studs, heisnow surely the world’s leading authority Her much-repeated remark in a magazine interview in 1987 that there was “no such, ‘thingas society for example, sawher attacked Dyseveral senior figures from across the major denominations ‘She truly was misrepresented on that, he suggests. “Perhaps she invited it by the turn ‘of phrase. Ifshe had been a modern person, she would have said there isno such thingas ‘society and done that thing with her fingers to show it was in quotes” So she did believe in society? “Of course, ‘and she was interested in what composed it Her answer was, individual human beings ‘and their families So, far from sayingit doesn't matter, she was saying it ma ters terribly, and you are responsible for it. We are responsible for it, That is all itis Which is a profoundly Christian point of view. He nods. “She was saying itis not something else. Iti us ‘which was almost the oppo- site of what she was accused of saying ‘MOORE CHARTS how, in her dotage, Mrs Thatcher would regularly attend services at the chapel of the Royal Hospital Chelsea, home of the Chelsea Pensioners. Herhusband, Denis, would take Communion, but, raised ‘asa Methodist in Grantham, she would not. si often the case with Protestantism in, England, she was always quite vague about it. Itwas no trouble for her to move from childhood Methodism to Anglicanism without really changing her beliefs, Denomination meant very litte to her. She was clearly a Protestant by her attitudes, not a Catholic, If you are going to work through to women’s ordination, you need to ground it in unity and development’ Dut that’s about it” Faith, though, was most definitely a part other make-up, “Idon't think she was very interested in religion, and certainly not very interested in church, but she did believe very strongly in the Judeo-Christian God. What particularly she believed in was the practice of virtue under the law of God, and your duty to God from, which comes your duty to your neighbour,” says Moore If denomination meant nothing to Mrs Thatcher, though, it must have counted ‘Moore to convert. tera quarter is it beginning to feel anything like home? “Well, [have been very warmly welcomed, but I didn't regard it as a tight club I was joining and seeking full member~ ship opportunities, [just think itis the right thing to be in: He is, he says, an admirer of Pope Francis “The Pope is obviously a very driven and impressive individual and seems to me to. understand very well the shepherd aspect of the ob, the pastoral aspect, in that he is impa tient with [Vatiean } bureaueracy because he ‘wants to serve the sheep. And that does hap. pen. He is held in high esteem in a lot of places” THERE SEEMS TO bea slight reservation eo tained in there somewhere. “To the extent that he makes political pronouncements, I usually don't like them, and I think his envi ronmental eneyelial, Laudato Si, as poorly argued. It was making assertions that were political, but with a gloss of Christianity. It wwas assertive rather than argumentative: ‘Moore, though, has no sympathy for that small group of traditional clerics, some of them associated with Donald ‘Trump's ex- associate, Steve Bannon, who regularly and publicly ambast Francis. “I think the tone of some ofthe attack s really rather unpleasant, as if they wanted him out, which I think is totally wrong." While he is not, he eonced ‘a natural Pope Francis type = he would, he says when pressed, describe himself as ‘mote ofa Pope Benedict ype” ~he is keen to make it clear that,*I couldn't possibly com- plain about one succeeding the other" If there is one area where ‘Moore is critical of his new denominational home, it is ‘over the quality ofour national Teadership. “I agree with the overall proposi tion, more usually put by the Left, that the Church can’t keep ont of polities. However, when you go into polities, you must under stand it. The same with economies. And the bishops ~and this s the same inall Churches, tend to speak rubbish in this respect. They just don't understand, and so get harnessed or political motives. There are, he admits, exceptions, notably the late Basil Hume, but for the rest he coun- sels that, when they feel the itch to intervene {in political matters, they follow the example of the Queen. So ~ just keep out? For more features, news, analysis and comment, vist wwwwthetable.co.uk ‘No. Our Queen is avery good example of (Christian leadership in a very quiet way. [eis partly becassesheis a constititional monarch, Dut her value in public life is a focus of unity and continuity, not of intervention and eon tradietion. She playsa very long game, asthe ‘Church ought do, and historically has, and ‘only says anything political when she thinks itis going to prevent conflict” IN THE SUMMER, Moore made headlines when he described - not entirely approvingly ~ the Oscar-winning actress and national treasure, Olivia Colman, who has b at the Queen in the next series of Netix’. Thugely successful The Crown, as having a “dis tinetly left-wing face” But there isno time to _g0 nto that now. The lasagne is finished, and hh next appointment beckons. Is there anything he misses about his est while home, laskas he gathers up his things. “The vernacular liturgy is inferior to the Anglican one, he comes straight back, “though ithas been improved by Pope Benedict, and >ecome more theologically subtle, if t has gota little wordy ‘Consubstantial” is on my lips, but Tim too late, Moores already halfway out ofthe door sneast Margaret Thatcher: The Authorized Biography, Volume Three: Herself Alone is published by Allen Lane at £35; Teblet bookshop price, £31.50. oy, MUF.DER CAJTHEDRA ia up ael teh er ‘OXFORD GUILDFORD iusto) at BOOKING Ones 2G OCTORER 2019 | THETABLET 7