Modern Jazz Guitar Discussion of Comprehensive Standardized Systems, Methods or 'Technique' Books For Learning Jazz Guitar, January 5, 2019 - .PDF REVISED

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Modern Jazz Guitar discussion of Comprehensive Standardized Systems,

Methods or 'Technique' Books for learning Jazz Guitar, January 5, 2019.
LINK: https://www.facebook.com/groups/modernjazzguitar/permalink/450385578831451/
Dan Beckham
January 5 at 2:21 PM
Is there anything like a comprehensive *scientific* technique book or books for jazz guitar application? Jazz
guitar has been around since Charlie Christian (and earlier), and I find it a little frustrating that a “standard”
left/right hand system hasn’t been developed by now (perhaps there is one and I am unaware of it).
Don’t get me wrong. There are excellent books out there like Jack’s Sheets of Sound, etc. but when I think of, for
example, classically trained violinists,they have a structured learning system that allows them to develop proper
physical technique from the very beginning. We jazzers seem to develop in a much less structured way. For
example, I never learned to angle my pick until I switched to economy/sweep picking about 10 years ago. I also
never employed left-hand permutations until relatively recently. These are just a couple of examples. I’m sure
there are many more.
I’m not talking about the Bill Leavitt Berkeley books or other similar method books. I’m talking about a structured
system that can be introduced at a young age and can (with enormous dedication and practice of course)
eventually produce virtuoso technique capable of playing just about anything in the jazz idiom. That’s the
approach classical players are taught. We jazz guitarists should have something similar by now to my way of
thinking (but perhaps I’m just naive or deluded, idk).
Thanks guys!
13 32 Comments
Comments
Marius Smevold Mick Goodrick.
Is all I have to say.

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Dan Beckham Marius Smevold , if you’re talking about his “The Advancing Guitarist” book, that’s not
really what I had in mind. I’ve got that book, and it is an interesting approach, but I would hardly call it a
comprehensive or scientific text. It is mostly a book of ideas that encourages a player to develop their
own jazz voice. While that is certainly important, it doesn’t comprehensively address jazz guitar
technique.
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Tony Rohrbough Following
https://mail.aol.com/webmail-std/en-us/suite 1/19
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Robert Firestone Believe it or not, there is no standard method in classical guitar circles, but there is of course
the technique focus to a higher degree. To generalize.
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Mike Anderson Compared to violin , jazz guitar is in relative infancy. I would also imagine there is not much
variation between one violin and another compared with all the different guitars available. I dont see that
changing either as we like choice as consumers.
The closest thing to this i think we have is the gypsy jazz technique which is pretty standard and every player
tries to copy the traditional techniques.
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Joey Goldstein There are LOTS of standard approaches to playing plectrum guitar.
That's the problem.
IMO The books that come closest to what you're looking for are the books you're not willing to use, the Berklee
books.
That's about as standardized as it gets, although most of your favourite players probably don't play that way. lol
The thing is that everybody has to find their own path after absorbing a few fundamental truths.
E.g. Play as close to then fret as often as possible to achieve the lightest touch.
Don't barre when you don't have to. It's a waste of energy.
Within a chord grip, when you have to play two notes on different strings in the same fret, it's usually (but not
always) best if you use lower numbered fingers on the higher numbered strings as opposed to the opposite of
that.
Most fingerings are based upon the fingers lying across 4 adjacent frets.
Some fingering systems (e.g. Leavitt) utilize 1st and 4th finger stretches to expand upon this 4-fret area.
Some advocate for fingerings that shift position rather than utilizing stretches.
Etc., etc.
Most guitar method books you encounter will steer you, or should steer you, towards those ideas.
Leavitt actually has a unique way of looking at single note line fingerings that intersects nicely with chord-scale
theory, and that's one of the main reasons why I've explored his thing myself as thoroughly as I have.
Most folks just learn the basics and then find their own path.
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Dan Beckham Joey Goldstein , I went through Leavitt’s 3 method books in my late teens and early
20s, and I still came out with lots of holes in my playing. If I remember correctly, he was also an
advocate of strict alternate picking, which has largely been replaced with economy/sweep or hybrid
picking. See, that is what I’m talking about. It seems to me that jazz guitar is advanced enough now
that a comprehensive system of all the best techniques could be taught from ground zero instead of
learning something one way, then realizing you need to change it later on, etc. Classical players aren’t
taught that way to my knowledge. They build up from the bottom with proper technique and don’t have
to change it later because they realize they’ve learned something that has limitations built into the
technique (in other words, the technique was inherently flawed).
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Joey Goldstein Did you study the Leavitt books with a teacher who knows them?
They're not supposed to fill in all the holes.
They're supposed to give you an idea of the most logical ways to play most things and then you have to
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utilize it and modify it as needed to play the repertoire that you want to play.
And Leavitt did a form of economy picking in these books too, if you pay attention to the details, but he
only does it for lines that are ascending.
I still can't think of another method that's any more concise or logically consistent than Leavitt's.
I like to think that if there was one out there that I'd be using it.
I think of Mick Goodrick's The Advancing Guitarist as being akin to Leavitt Vol 4 as it fill in some of the
holes you're focused on.
My own book has lots of the topics that you're interested in too, but not all of them.
My book is particularly weak on picking techniques.
It's mostly about applying jazz theory on the instrument if it's about anything.
So it's less about physical guitar techniques (although there's lots of that too) and more about musical
techniques (chord-scales on the guitar, melodic devices (appoggiature, passing tones, enclosures, etc.)
on the guitar, chord voicings on the guitar, etc., etc.
http://joeygoldstein.com/JGM/jgm.htm
If you're interested.
JOEYGOLDSTEIN.COM
Joe's Guitar Method
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Allen Ray It's not that hard to apply principles of good classical technique to the guitar. But specific techniques
are only correct/useful as a means to a specific sound. Specific techniques get codified when many performers
are required to reproduce a certain sound as exactly and as perfectly as possible. That situation describes
classical music (of a certain era, anyway) but not jazz performance, in which the individual performer has
greater freedom to choose the sounds, and therefore the techniques, he or she wishes to utilize.
Why standardize technique? Perhaps it is a unique strength of the guitar that it comes in many forms, can be
used in many ways, and this fact about the instrument should be embraced.
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Dan Beckham Allen Ray , why standardize technique? A musician should be able to play anything
presented to him/her, whether that be sheet music or a solo lifted from a recording. Improper technique
will make that difficult/problematic at best. Classical players don’t seem to have that problem because
they have a foundational technique taught to them from childhood (usually). I think jazz guitarists
should have a system like that available to them by now that they can learn in childhood as well.
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Allen Ray I'm not sure that is what a musician should be able to do, though I understand that such things
are a requirement of the job for many musicians.
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Allen Ray I would say a musician should be able to make beautiful music.
Whether or not the musician can play anything put in front of him, that's a secondary matter. Maybe that's
necessary to make a living, though.
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Dan Beckham Allen Ray , yes, I’m thinking in terms of professional-level playing.
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Allen Ray Perhaps your question is more about being a studio musician than being a jazz musician. But
I understand that many jazz musicians were successful as studio musicians, too.
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Dan Beckham Allen Ray , my question is about having pro-level chops and able to execute whatever
there is that you have to execute. Being studio or jazz is not really the focus of the OP.
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Allen Ray Yeah I understand what you're saying. I'm just wary of the suggestion that jazz musicians
ought to have the same standards of musicianship as classical musicians or studio musicians. Being
able to play anything that's put in front of you is good and something to strive for, but not of the essence
for all musicians, for all jazz musicians. Many of the greats can't do that and don't attempt to. I believe
this explains why there is not a standard set of jazz techniques. Jazz technique is more individual. It's
crafted by individuals to achieve goals set or accepted by the individual. I'm all for examining the
scientific approaches uncovered by classical pedagogy, and taking what one needs from them. But I'm
not sure there can or should be a scientific, standardized, systematic pedagogy of technique for jazz.
Anyway, nice taking to you, and best of luck in your journey. I benefited a lot from reading about violin
technique. Check out Ivan Galamian.
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Dan Beckham Allen Ray , thx!
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Andrew Powers I use Guitar Technic by Roger Filiberto, with my students as well as selections from Patterns for Jazz
by Jerry Coker. The Coker book was designed for saxophone but there is a lot of stuff in that book that works well for
guitar.
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Andrew Powers I agree there is is no real “jazz guitar” technique book out there.
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Dan Beckham Andrew Powers , I’ve got Coker’s book too. Had it since college. Never thought of it as a
jazz guitar technique book.
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Andrew Powers Dan Beckham I am thinking in terms of exercises that build up your chops and are
designed to help you be more fluid with your instrument. I do feel like there needs to be a similar book
that is more specific to the guitar.
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Filip Džankić .
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Andrea Vergani Mmmm, I think there is a rational approach to the matter: you need the technique required by
the genre you play through the repertoire needed. If you think about it it's what classical guitarist do, with the
advantage of a genre stable in its tradition and repertoire. In jazz the foundation is jazz standards. So what are
they? Triads, scales, chords. You those first but you have to know them well. Then as jazz is based on
improvising, you have to transcribe and transpose. Keep on going. Basic technique of the instrument is not that
vaste all in all, all the book/method mentioned address it. Maybe also finding a good teacher would help? If you
ask me though the main thing is TRIADS.
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Dan Beckham Andrea Vergani , I wasn’t talking so much about the musical foundation of triads,
scales, chords, etc as I was the physical technique required to execute any of that in a virtuoso manner
through a solid foundational technique taught from the ground up. That’s what I’m interested in.
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Robert Firestone Dan Beckham There are certainly private jazz teachers that can teach you their
proven technique (think Benson and his students). Like I said though, there is no single approach in
Classical Guitar either...
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Andrea Vergani Dan Beckham I see them as the foundational harmonic device but also technical
knowledge of the instrument. Eventually there not many etudes per se but I think between
triads/scales/arpeggios and transposing transcriptions, you will have what you are looking for. I suppose
the bottom line is that jazz is based on an aural approach and that reflects into the lack of a methodical
collection of etudes to execute scales/triads in a virtuoso manner - while that is easily found for the
classical guitarist.
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Robert Firestone Andrea Vergani He’s talkin about physical technique.

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Andrea Vergani Robert Firestone I know, I just think that it is to be developed through
triads/scales/arpeggios - unless you only refer to finger exercises but I always found them to be aimless.
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Robert Firestone Andrea Vergani You still need to follow a certain school of picking. Elbow or wrist?
Economy or Alternate? Floating wrist or anchored.
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Andrea Vergani Robert Firestone much of it depends on the genre and instrument, yet again I think it is
something very specific that you will develop through triads/scales/arpeggio. To me all of them are the
mean to develop that physical ability on the instrument. Right hand is your choice but you work it out
physically by shredding those triads/scales/arpeggios. For instance these days I play the Segovia scales
to keep that physical workout on the instrument - they are not much per se, but it is a regimen that allows
me to focus on shifting on the instrument, covering the fretboard, getting an even sound on every note,
using gypsy jazz technique, alternate an downstrokes only
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Colin Hunt Or perhaps a mix. Coming back to classical music, string players have a variety of
articulations and bowing styles that they need to use to execute the music. Perhaps part of getting to a
true standardized method is not only utilizing one style of right hand technique as they all seem to offer
differences in sound and performance. I'm not sure exactly which picking styles and exactly which left
hand techniques should be taught though, but if it's truly a standardized approach to guitar I think it'll
need to include a mix of right and left hand techniques to develop in conjunction.
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Dan Beckham Colin Hunt, yes, right and left hand technique/coordination developed in conjunction
(using a pick) to execute whatever the left hand wants/imagines, or whatever the situation demands.
Sight reading helps, but isn’t all-conclusive or comprehensive.
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Steve Sakaluk As with all things jazz, technique is a dimension that should be mailable*. Any attempt at
creating standard technique for jazz guitar will surely live a short life on an academic drawing board.
* I believe this writer meant " malleable".
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Mason Razavi I think there is no standard like what you are looking for because there are no truly beginner
jazz guitar players. Nobody picks up the guitar and starts playing to become a jazz guitarist. Most people start
playing rock and pop music, and there are some that started out playing classical guitar as kids. So almost
nobody starts playing jazz guitar without having had some guitar background already. That's why I think there's
no method that takes you from zero to jazz guitar player. The Leavitt books come pretty close. The Mel Bay
books and others out there are great for teaching technique, reading, scales, etc. and give good preparation for
becoming any kind of guitarist.
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Dan Beckham Mason Razavi you’re right about how people “evolve” into jazz guitar. My contention is
that it shouldn’t be that way. If a kid wakes up one day and says “I want to be the best jazz guitarist on
the planet” (and has the innate talent to become that) there should be a comprehensive system that
can take him/her from zero to virtuoso if they choose to give up a big chunk of their life to
woodshedding.
Look at Wynton Marsalis. He is equally at home in either the classical or jazz idiom. He has an
astounding foundational technique that allows him to execute anything. Jazz guitar should have a
system that could produce that on the instrument for the jazz idiom.
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Mason Razavi Unlike horns, piano, and some other instruments, classical guitar technique doesn't
transfer over to electric guitar (or at least much of it does not) so even trained guitar players who go into
jazz have to "start over". Anyway, no need to look as far as Wynton when we have Julian Lage, who was
taught by his dad, got classical training at SF Conservatory and then jazz at Berklee.
I did have a 10-year old student once who really wanted to learn jazz so I wrote out etudes to try and
move him in that direction. And in my area there are some private schools that have jazz bands even in
grade school. I have certainly thought about putting together a jazz guitar method for younger learners.
But it is probably a small market. Studying from the Mel Bay books and then supplementing that with
jazz-specific stuff from a good teacher would probably get a student 90% there in terms of what you're
looking for. Maybe the key is a jazz guitar SUPPLEMENT that teachers could use in addition to existing
beginner books.
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Jerome Arnold You might want to check out Joe Negri's book "A Common Sense Approach to Improvisation
for Guitar" which concisely details how the swing players like Charlie Christian and George Barnes (and the bop
guitarists who followed) addressed the fingerboard. Additionally, Garrison Fewell's two books "A Melodic
Approach" and "A Harmonic Approach" covers the post-bop to modal types of playing (think Wes Montgomery).
All three books basically lay out the stylistic left hand organization with Fewell's books paying closer attention to
how to integrate LH patterns with RH picking.
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Jim Fisk If you watch Pat Martino's right/left hand and compare to George Benson, Pat Metheny or Allan
Holdsworth, I think that should perfectly demonstrate that right/left hand pedagogy is possibly not necessary. All
the aforementioned musicians are iconic, and play lights out, but each is unique in their approach.
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Robert Firestone Jim Fisk I do think that some ways of approaching technique can be dead ends. I’ve
seen some really inefficient ways of holding the pick, for instance, and of holding the guitar. A beginner
can’t be expected to know the right way.
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Jim Fisk Robert Firestone Indeed. One of my favorite current, young'ish jazz guitarists is Mike
Moreno. His right hand is interesting, almost Eddie Van Halen'ish. His lines are all his own and very
creative, IMHO.
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Matas Ričkus Theres Troy Grady on youtube , he mainly focuses on picking techniques. The amount of work
he has put out is tremendous
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David Mancevice I tend to think of technique learning to be more exploratory than strict guidelines , the more
variations of technique you explore the more bodily somatic intelligence you gain. Refinement, relaxation and
ultimately the sound you are getting should be the guide.
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David Mancevice Like a gymnast or skateboarder learning a trick - it’s constant exploration of
movement
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Robert Firestone David Mancevice If you don’t have one main one, you won’t develop very far. That’s
my opinion.
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David Mancevice Robert Firestone I definitely get that some guidelines are needed. But I’ve also seen a
blind guy play some mean bebop with the guitar laid flat on his lap. And a guys with physical disabilities
really tear it up with unconventional technique. Maybe for traditional classical technique things are more
set in stone.
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Robert Firestone I’m just saying that if you skip around from method to method you may water down the
results.
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Robert Firestone For instance, the difference between pick style and fingerstyle is pretty vast as far as
the right hand goes. It’s like two different instruments.
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Dan Beckham Robert Firestone without a doubt. I studied classical guitar for 2 years in college and had
to study the Carcassi Method, Segovia scales, right-hand exercises/etudes, etc. There really isn’t much
that carries over, except I did learn to use right hand fingering (today called hybrid) in conjunction with
pick in some situations. Studying classical wasn’t non-beneficial imho.
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David Mancevice Definitely no argument there! Maybe I’m expressing myself wrong (I usually do!)-
nothing against methods and sticking to a form. But as far as technical gains within a method and
general agreed upon (good technique)- they cannot be discovered from a printed page. They have to be
experienced through minuscule slight variations of technique. Your body will discover what efficiency
means (unique to you). i.e What does it sound like when I tilt my wrist slightly this way. Through those
variants technique develops in a graceful way (I hope). A individual may have outward “perfect form” but
be holding onto a great deal of tension. No technique exercise will rid them of that if they do not notice it
in the first place
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Robert Firestone Dan Beckham Advanced repertoire has some crazy Left hand stretches- that carries
over.
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Robert Firestone It certainly helps with hybrid picking as well.
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Tim Mirth As someone who studied some violin as well (plus own hundreds of guitar books over the years) ,
the two instruments are not comparable. Guitar lacks so much and I think a big reason is that no one has been
quite good enough to build off of yet (who is the Liszt or Paganini of guitar? Master in all the techniques and
inventor of many more)
Someone mentioned that it's not possible because of the differences in approach like Benson compared to
Holdsworth and Martino... Violin also has different grips, many quite different that are studied. I think you could
make a case that the various styles of picking etc... Should all be studied, cause that is exactly what they do on
other instruments.
Violin has hundreds if not thousands of etudes and studies for nearly each and every technique someone could
think of (books dedicated to long tones, books dedicated to double stops, triple stops muting, short notes,
plucking, single string exercises, etc... Etc...)
Guitar is certainly a much younger instrument, particularly for soloist level playing. But, it's really been nearly a
hundred years and most haven't surpassed what someone like Django was doing technically.
It doesn't probably help that electric guitar is still not really seen as a "real" instrument by a lot of folks, and
because it was so incredibly popular and accessible the quality and level was brought down (which hasn't been
all bad actually).
Unfortunately, at this point I haven't seen any serious attempts to recitify this in any way similar to violin, except
in classical (finger style acoustic guitar) for electric guitar or jazz.
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Colin Hunt Exactly this. As a double bassist it's a little strange to me to want only one standardized
right or left hand technique. If there were a standard one I think it, like classical technique, would
include various styles of picking and fingering to navigate any music.
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Rod Ellard Not the answer to the OP's question, but how many of us started playing jazz guitar using Mickey
Baker's Volume 1?
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Jim Fisk That was all there was back then. Later came Joe Pass's book, which is just as
relevant today as when it was new.
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Jim Flaming What I always found when teaching kids guitar was that people see it differently than learning,say,
piano. In general, people accept that when you get piano lessons it's going to be formal and academic and
structured. When kids come to guitar they think they're going to learn this cool rock song, or they're having
trouble with some tab theyre working on, or they want to "play by the campfire". I've had parents who put their
kids in my guitar lessons because she wanted them to "do fun music" as opposed to the structured approach
they were doing in piano lessons. People are not really open, in general, to doing something formal on the
guitar.
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Rog Taylor Well, I can say from experience that children and their parents are, in fact, open to formal
guitar training. I teach Suzuki, and have 25 students, ages 4 to 14 currently. The approach is heavily
structured, and we hold students to a high standard. Until I saw what Suzuki was doing (guitar and
other instruments) with students, I didn't think it was possible to keep students for a decade. But that's
what I'm getting. The whole reason I started was the eye-opening experience I had as the parent a
Suzuki student. And my daughter, who started violin when she was four, is completing her performance
degree at Vanderbilt (Blair College of Music) and has grad school auditions at Rice, FL State and
Michigan. And the same thing is happening in Suzuki guitar.
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Jim Flaming Rog Taylor interesting. I didnt actually know there was Suzuki guitar. Is this a classical
guitar program? I have heard about the violin program. It's a focus on playing by ear or something like
that, right? I have a background in classical guitar, but when I taught guitar my experience was that the
students weren't open to it with a few exceptions.
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Rog Taylor Classical, yes. My students all read very well. I can't stress that enough. (My daughter
learned to read quite well as a child.) However, our reading is from separate books until about book 3 of
the Suzuki repertoire.
By ear in the sense that students are required to listen to the pieces in the book they are in, with greater
focus on the current and next repertoire piece. They must be able to sing/hum the entire piece before the
teacher begins teaching it. Teacher shows the student how to play the piece. In later books, students
must still listen a lot, but not have to hum them (they get longer). I can tell when a student has/has not
been listening. Another feature often overlooked is regular group lessons. Being with your peers is a
strong motivator, and it's fun if done correctly.
Being listed on the Suzuki Web site as a legit Suzuki teacher, i.e., as having completed various training
classes, is key to getting the right students. Conversely, non-Suzuki teachers may not be getting some of
the dedicated students precisely because they go to a Suzuki teacher. Parents are a big part of the
approach: they are given the title of "home teacher," for which they must learn to play a little classical
guitar as part of a six-session, 90 minute parent ed and training workshop I give before the student may
begin lessons (teachers are trained to give the workshops.)
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Jim Flaming Rog Taylor the environment I was working in was not that way. It was more just a school
affiliated with a music store and you would get students who had just bought a guitar or saw the ad in the
phone book etc. Some students had done the classical thing and for whatever reason didnt like it. I had a
lot of adult and teen students who had strong ideas about what they did and didnt want to do. With many
of these older students my program was flexible and with a few students I didnt do any reading at all
because I didnt feel like having that fight with them. With kids I would always stress reading and
progressing in a more formal way (and this was unusual for guitar teachers in my situation, as you may
well know).
So, there was no right or wrong kind of student - I was teaching every kind .
You receive, because of your Suzuki designation, the "right" kind of students. But I maintain that, in
seeing a more broad picture of potential students in the school I taught at, the piano students expected
to do something formal whereas the guitar students? Not so much. I had students coming to me saying,
"I quit classical guitar because I want to play this cool stuff my friends are playing".
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Rog Taylor I've done that kind of teaching as well. Love what I do now best of all, though. They're not all
good guitar students, and I happily teach students with disabilities/challenges/special conditions. Some
physical, some mental. The only requirement is that they follow the program. I do it as much for the
enhanced brain development that music study can provide (if you practice), and the understanding they
(and parents) get about the discipline and routine it takes to become good at something (Gladwell, etc.),
as for the joy of seeing them develop as musicians. I don't care one way or another if they continue
guitar as adults.
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Jim Flaming Rog Taylor right. For many students, I thought what would be the point of forcing them into
formal study if it wasn't fun for them. Because I knew they would never be a professional or even a guitar
teacher. So at least I could help them to have fun at the guitar.
When I started guitar, I had to tell my teacher, "I want to learn how to read music on the guitar". And he
said ok. If I hadn't told him I would never have learned until I had another teacher who brought it up. I
always tried it with students on the first few lessons because of my belief that it was important. As a
teacher I did find that I was coming up with my own pedagogy as I went. It may have been good to have
a system like Suzuki.
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Gene Segal There isn’t one method. Imo take what you can from numerous sources. Mick Goodrich books
were a huge help to me so were the George van eps triad books. It’s improvisation so there isn’t just 1
structured way to learn because it’s personal to each individual. You have to find your own ways to apply the
information.
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Jake Estner I think Troy Grady’s research is helping us come closer to this stage you talk about, but
collectively we need to get our head out of our butts...imo!
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Jake Estner Apologies - I misread. I would say the above ONLY about plectrum technique.
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Tim Mirth For what it's worth I believe Martin Miller said the videos and pick angle thing changed his
picking forever and he spent a long time working it out.
I think there is definitely some sorely needed value in what Troy is doing. I wish it was more stylistically
agnostic and not geared towards 80s shredders, but they are about the most efficient pickers out there.
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Sean Andrews What the heck is a left-hand permutation?
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Dan Beckham Sean Andrews , go online and find a pdf (book is out of print) on a small 70s book
called “Quadraphonic Fingering” by Mitch Holder. All the left-hand possibilities are demonstrated in that
small book, as well as how to apply them to single and multiple string combinations.
Sylvain Courtney That is what i like about jazz guitar.The diversity of techniques...as long as it works.
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Keira Witherkay To me ...and yes just my opinion ...the essence of jazz not only for guitarists but including
guitarists ...is originality... finding a fresh or alternative way to perform the same material ... and we all play the
same 12 notes but often it's our approach and mindset and I guess how we learnt differently that makes each
player unique... in classical music you play note for note what's on the sheet in jazz as many great players say
the sheet is merely a suggestion or skeleton to the tune and the player can alter or fill in gaps ., this is why jazz
guitarists all sound unique ... if we all had same technique and same thinking on substitution or improvisation
we may lose that....but this is just opinion and not based on fact... but if I hear bill frizell or Mike stern or wes
Montgomery or Sheryl bailey I think a lot of the differences I hear and appreciate is in the technique and
approach as it's the same 12 notes ... and if there was a standardised learning method we may just all sound a
lot more similar than we'd like .. personally and yes my opinion I love the broad open approach to jazz .. it's
what attracts me to it over more structured forms ..
Apologies for the long winded post
1/9/2019 AOL Mail (8503)
Like · Reply · 2d
Dan Beckham Keira Witherkay , I’m not talking about developing an individual/unique jazz guitar style.
That is who you are or eventually become. I’m talking about the physical ability to execute extremely
complex material, which might include things like speed, touch, dexterity, flexibility, etc.
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Chris Smith Adam Rogers talked about this, at least from point of view of technique. He has tried to develop a
pedagogy of sorts for jazz players. Might check out his Master Music Class courses if interested, but like I said
more about his approach to developing technique--although all related, of course. Good luck with your
endeavors. Cheers
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Dan Beckham Chris Smith , thx!
Like · Reply · 2d
John Kozinski I second. I’ve been practicing from Adam’s videos.It has helped
Chris Smith Technically, definitely in the tip top echelon of the contemporary ny players imo. Scarcely
enough, I think his live playing with Becker is even more on point--again strictly from a technical point of
view--than his more recent output. Either way, definitely one of my fav players. Thanks for the second
Like · Reply · 23h
Chris Smith I think it would be harder to develop a truly comprehensive book or approach for jazz. Fortunately,
jazz remains a truly contemporary art form that remains in flux. Rogers and Mick G both have exercises to
develop the skill of playing through changes, which I imagine is what a lot of players are asking for when they
ask for jazz training. Ppl try to bag on Martino as an eight note algorithm these days, but there's a reason all the
newer cats cite him as an influence.
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Hide 12 Replies
Jack A. Zucker He's not asking for a "jazz" method. What he's really asking for is a standardized
method for plectrum guitar.
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Dan Beckham Yep. That’s it exactly Jack. Why couldn’t I be more precise with my description? I struggle
with the physical aspects of playing complex things since I changed my picking about a decade ago.
Maybe it’s just age catching up with me, idk. I’m frankly astounded by things these young kids are doing
these days. The shredders make it look effortless, but they usually use overdrive or some kind of sustain
that helps out I think. I’d like to be able to execute at that level cleanly *without* effects if it’s physically
possible.
Like · Reply · 2d
Jack A. Zucker Dan Beckham guys like Tom Quayle can do it without overdrive too. It seems that the
legato techniques have opened up methods of expression that weren't available if you were brought up
using old-skool approaches.
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Dan Beckham Jack, you have vast pedagogical knowledge. Do you thing it’s touch, pick grasp effort,
left-hand string depress amount, string attack...idk. Whatever it is, a lot of these kids today have
mastered it and make it look effortless.
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Jim Flaming Dan Beckham not that I have mastered this way of playing but I had a teacher who did: his
picking was not from the arm or the wrist. He had a way of holding the pick such that he would make little
oval shapes with the pick, moving mostly his thumb and index finger. You could see his wrist moving only
a little bit, nothing from the elbow or shoulder. He could pick unbelievably fast. I learned to use a bit of
that in my picking but I m really not a super fast picker. As for pick grasp, it's a very light grasp but you
just need a tiny tip of the pick showing for most jazz guitar (using a pretty hard pick).
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Jim Flaming A few have been talking about Troy Grady on YouTube. If you watch his picking it's totally
wrist movement and he gets pretty fast as well, but hes using more muscle than the method I was talking
about.
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Allen Ray Dan Beckham Can you show some examples of the type of techniques you're interested in
acquiring?
I agree that the technical level of young musicians is getting mind blowing. The internet has done a lot to
spread certain kinds of knowledge. As far as technique goes, I see two big influences rising -
Holdsworth's legato, and adaptation of fingerstyle techniques to the electric guitar. These two together
can really open up the melodic and harmonic/textural capacities of the guitar. And that's something that
gets me excited to work on technique!
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Richard Bornman I wish the old nonsense canard about "overdrive/dist makes things easy to articulate"
would die an unceremonious death". It's nonsense. In fact, playing with distortion is MUCH more difficult
than playing with a clean sound.
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Dan Beckham Allen Ray , Frank Gambale pretty much personifies economy/sweep and an apparent
effortlessness in his playing. The things I have problems with are controlled downward sweep at any
given tempo on 3 or 4 strings as they apply to jazz improvisation. Sweeping isn’t effortless for me no
matter how much I practice it, and the pick sometimes gets “caught” on a string during the sweep,
producing an uneven execution. I’m angling the pick so it glides better, but the triads I’m trying to down
sweep on just don’t feel right and are inconsistent in execution. I’ve carefully studied the string
articulation with pick, but haven’t been able to get it consistent. Frustrating.
Like · Reply · 2d
Dan Beckham Jack A. Zucker , I think I’m gonna get your legato book. Can you provide a link?
Like · Reply · 1d
Jack A. Zucker Dan Beckhamhttp://www.lulu.com/.../paperback/product-23420128.html
LULU.COM
Sheets of Sound for Legato
Guitar Vol. 1 by Jack Zucker…
Like · Reply · 1d
Jack A. Zucker and http://www.lulu.com/.../paperback/product-23420155.html
LULU.COM
Sheets of Sound for Legato
Guitar Vol. 2 by Jack Zucker…
Like · Reply · 1d
Steve Shepard Any Philly players here will know a lot more about this than me, but Joe Sgro taught a pretty
comprehensive approach to technique, and influenced a few generations of players (Tom Giacobetti, Joe Lano,
Robert Conti and Sonny Troy, to name a few). He was a violin player who switched to guitar and meticulously
adapted bow technique to picking. From what I understand, a significant part of his lessons were devoted to
playing classical violin etudes with very deliberate fingerings and pick markings, but there was more to it than
that. Unfortunately, he passed away a few years ago and I don't think he wrote a book. There's a former student
on the web that sells a series of "Guitar Master" books, but I don't know if or how well they carry forward Sgro's
intent.
1
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Lindsey Blair There really isn’t a standardized electric guitar technique method for any style of music.
1
Like · Reply · 2d
Dan Beckham Lindsey, that’s pretty much what I expected, but I wish there was, especially in this age
of super-chops!
Like · Reply · 1d
Lindsey Blair Peter Farrell has the George Benson method. Benson seems to have it together more
than anyone I know of.
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John Kozinski Dan BeckhamThis was similar to a related post where I talked about scientific theories related
to piano technique and asked if anyone had done this with guitar....no one could mention any source. You might
check out these two resources. Rafferty's Hannon: https://www.adamrafferty.com/virtuoso-jazz-guitar.../ I've
been finding this helpful. and
ADAMRAFFERTY.COM
How to Develop Virtuoso Technique
for Jazz Guitar - Adam Rafferty
Like · Reply · 2d
Dan Beckham John, thanks! That might be what I’m looking for!
Like · Reply · 2d
John Kozinski The Adam Rogers is a video course but you can get a hard copy of Rafferty's...He has
some more great ideas of things to work on at the end of the course that I'm going to start, also.
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John Kozinski Dan Beckham continued Bruce Arnold on technique: https://muse-eek.com/guitar-technique-

and-physiology/
MUSE-EEK.COM
Guitar Technique and Physiology Fix
Bad Technique Fast
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Dan Beckham John, I think this is digital. I’m old school and prefer paper and ink. Do you have this?
Have you gotten anything useful out of it?
Like · Reply · 2d
John Kozinski I bought his True Fire course but didn't finish it. I can vouch for Adam Roger's and Adam
Raferty's practices. I'm alternating them each day for at least 6 months and have seen good results.
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Like · Reply · 2d
Garry Weinberg What ever is comfortable for you. Watch Wes and Pat Martino. But some use pinky for
pivot....... many variations. To me it isn't a science it's a feel.....
Like · Reply · 1d
John Kozinski I think Dan was ask if anyone has applied a scientific approach...but what works
should be fine, also.
Like · Reply · 2d
Dan Beckham Garry Weinberg , to me, this “feel” requires expert sweeping technique. Check out his
improvisational prowess and effortless economy/sweep prowess. Sure wish I could get to this level.
https://youtu.be/qIVFJdmQ9Xk
YOUTUBE.COM
Sweep Picking Medley - Frank
Gambale New Guitar…
Like · Reply · 2d
Tales Bernardi I think Robert fripp tried to do this "the right way to use the plectrum method" with his
guitar craft courses. Every Guy that uses his method play the same way and sounds the same to me.
Like · Reply · 2d
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Dan Beckham Tales Bernardi , hmm. You might have a point about sounding the same. But exceptional
technique to execute whatever you hear in your head is sometimes necessary. Think about what Michael
Brecker had in his head, and he had the chops to execute what he heard.
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Like · Reply · 2d
Tales Bernardi Agree . Fripp uses what he calls "New standard tuning" and his students uses this tuning
too. It's an aesthetic thing, the tuning plus the light picks, ovations acoustic guitars and "fripp way of
picking". https://youtu.be/skBJ4UazDaw
YOUTUBE.COM
Robert Fripp's Guitar Craft -
Careful With That Axe - Part 1
Ken Lasaine I tend to agree that there's no 'set' technique pedagogy or methodology for Jazz or Rock guitar.
That's kinda the point innit? The focus is (or at least was) on originality. And, as many others here have said,
you can absolutely apply any classical left hand technique studies and certainly a lot of the right hand stuff too
(when you're not using a pick. It sure as hell helped me.
Like · Reply · 1d
Modern Jazz Guitar discussion of Comprehensive Standardized Systems,

Methods or 'Technique' Books for learning Jazz Guitar, January 5, 2019.
LINK: https://www.facebook.com/groups/modernjazzguitar/permalink/4503855788

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Modern Jazz Guitar discussion of Comprehensive Standardized Systems,

Marius Smevold Mick Goodrick.

Is all I have to say.

Tony Rohrbough Following

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Dan Beckham Allen Ray , thx!

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Robert Firestone Andrea Vergani He’s talkin about physical technique.

* I believe this writer meant " malleable".

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Robert Firestone It certainly helps with hybrid picking as well.

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Sean Andrews What the heck is a left-hand permutation?

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Dan Beckham Chris Smith , thx!

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Jack A. Zucker Dan Beckhamhttp://www.lulu.com/.../paperback/product-23420128.html

Jack A. Zucker and http://www.lulu.com/.../paperback/product-23420155.html

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John Kozinski Dan Beckham continued Bruce Arnold on technique: https://muse-eek.com/guitar-technique-

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Modern Jazz Guitar discussion of Comprehensive Standardized Systems,

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