18/09/2019 Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry - Explained...

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Thread: Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry - Explained...

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16 September 2014, 04:57 AM #21

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devotee
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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry - Explained...

Namaste ameyAtma,

How are your posts helping the intent of this thread ? Please stick to the topic. I am afraid, this thread is on way to
getting derailed completely. Posts considered trying to derail the topic may be deleted.

OM

"Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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16 September 2014, 05:20 AM #22

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silence_speaks
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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry - Explained...

Originally Posted by devotee

Namaste ameyAtma,
How are your posts helping the intent of this thread ? Please stick to the topic. I am afraid, this thread is on way to
getting derailed completely. Posts considered trying to derail the topic may be deleted.
OM
Dear Devotee ji,
I should say that its my mistake, as I started by questioning. From next time I will try to ensure that the
discussions regarding a topic are done in a separate thread so that the main thread itself is not disturbed.

As such Supreme Bhakti and Self Inquiry are one and the same. Only difference is in the view points. That said, what
you mentioned is true: the main purpose of the post should be maintained, for which i am responsible in this
particular case.

Love!
Silence

Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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16 September 2014, 07:00 AM #23

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silence_speaks
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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry - Explained...

SELF INQUIRY POST 7:

We have discussed what is not Self Inquiry till now. Now let us start looking into what is Self Inquiry. To start with , I
will present what I understand it as and then substantiate my claims with the aid of quotes of Ramana and various
scriptures.

First of all, the essential teaching of Ramana Maharshi is not "Ask Who am I". His essential teaching is "Just Be" and
only when someone complained that I cannot "Just Be", did he suggest "Inquire Who cannot just Be".

So , the fundamental teaching is "Just Be" ! When a person cannot Just Remain, Self Inquiry is a "Technique" that can
bring him back to Himself. This is what Self Inquiry is about.

As such the external practice itself does not matter. whether I ask "Who am I" or "Naan Yaar" or do not ask any
questions but revert back to myself , it should not matter. What I do , externally is not what defines Self Inquiry. Even
as ... whether i chant a prayer or not ... if i remain silent "with" God, its prayer. the external chanting , with mind
reveling in something else ... is not prayer. Even so , asking "Who am i" without reverting to Self is not self inquiry.

So Self Inquiry is ... lets define ... "Any technique I use to remain with myself" ... a tool for Self Abidance. When I
take myself to be the mind, any tool I use to revert back to see myself as untouched by mind is Self inquiry. Whether i
say "Who am i" or simply remain as "I AM" , its just the same. External method should not matter. So also, if
someone is able to simply chant the name of God to "Just Be" he is doing Self Inquiry. While a person who keeps
asking "Who am i" ... in darkness hoping for some answer is confused and is not doing Self Inquiry.

I have just set a context for Self Inquiry. We need a proper definition... a clear and precise one... so for that I use the
following statement from Ashtavakra Gita. I can think of no better statement about Self Inquiry :

य द दे हं पथ
ृ क् कृ य च त व ा य त ठ स ।
अधन
ु व
ै सख
ु ी शा तो ब धमु तो भ व य स ॥१-४॥

If you detach yourself from the body and remain relaxed as Awareness, Immediately you experience happiness, calmness and
freedom from bondage.

A few people will try to disagree since the source of this statement is from ashtavakra gita and not Ramana's gospel. God bless those
who think on those lines. As for me, I will support my claim with through analysis in the posts to follow.

So this definition .... Detaching yourself from body and remaining relaxed in Awareness is called Self Inquiry.

Ramana gave a simple method if detach from body and remain as Awareness. There may be many equivalent ways... its not the
external method but the actual "Detachment from body to relax into awareness" that should be called Self Inquiry. Remaining Relaxed
in Awareness is called "Just Be". We will see all this clearly and precisely as these posts continue ....

Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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18 September 2014, 02:56 AM #24

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devotee
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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry - Explained...

Namaste SS,

Spiritual seekers have a very strange habit: they are always looking for a way to reach, attain,discover,experience, or
realize the Self. They try many things because they cannot comprehend that they are already the Self. This is like
running around looking for one's eyes with one's own eyes.
My feeling is that though the above is perfectly OK from the point of view of a Self-realised soul, just believing in
above and do nothing (as we already are which is the highest Truth), may lead to further delusion. Why do I say this ?

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I have seen many Internet-debaters believing that they are already Self-realised (Though, with the above, it becomes
fallacious and yet I am using this term to differentiate the two conditions in absence of any better term). However,
when you find that they are still riddled with greed/egoism and other weaknesses, you start feeling that this is all
hollow claim and actually they are badly deluded.

What do you say on this ?

OM

"Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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18 September 2014, 04:13 AM #25

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silence_speaks
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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry - Explained...

Dear Devotee,
Namasthe !
Thank you for the question.

The teaching of Vedanta is "You are Purna/Complete or Fulfilled". It is not "You have to become Fulfilled".

The only problem is with someone who has not discovered that inner fulfillment ... but somehow developed
attachment to this "Claim" that "I am Fulfilled".

Vedanta Panchadasi (vidhyaranya swami) argues : Even when a person does not see himself as fulfilled, but claims he
is fulfilled ... its still fine since the statement is not false. In the wake of Knowledge (True discovery), the statement
does not get negated. So, as such its good and perfectly fine to believe and have conviction on this. Ribhu Gita says
that firm conviction becomes the primary means to actual discovery.... because anyways we are that.

The problem however is when a person says "I am Fulfilled --- You are Not"... the statements "I am not Fulfilled" or
"You are Not Fulfilled" are lies... they perpetuate ignorance and are never a vedantic statement.

We should never try to prove to someone that "they are not fulfilled" -- because such an attempt is against vedantic
vision. So my approach is ... if someone has not yet discovered fulfillment but claims it ... i appreciate the claim and
agree ... until a moment where he says "someone else is not fulfilled or that he himself has some problems"... and
then correct the vision so that he sees himself as ever fulfilled.

A fulfilled person naturally and automatically acts out of inner completeness ... so compassion, clarity and simplicity
are automatic expressions.

Love!
Silence

Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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18 September 2014, 04:22 AM #26

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silence_speaks
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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry - Explained...

Dear Devotee,
I would further like to add:
In Vedantic learning, one should refrain from categorizing people as "Low", "Medium", "High" ... or "realized",
"unrealized", "very materialistic" etc.... whenever we see such divisions in the scriptures they are only to aid us
improve ... not to use it as a yardstick categorize people.

A student of vedanta is supposed to learn and keep improving himself ... that we are all evver fulfilled is given... so
we have to see it again and again with the aid of a teacher so that we can effortlessly see ourselves as such ... and so
... naturally discover inner completeness and satisfaction....

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there is total acceptance ... and joy all along !

its a beautiful journey all along. everyone is welcome to live it ... everyone is welcome with open hands to discover
their own inner fulfillment which is already given ... free !

Love!
Silence

Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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18 September 2014, 10:43 PM #27

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devotee
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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry - Explained...

Namaste Silence,

My intent was not to categorise anyone but to emphasize upon dangers hidden for unprepared seekers in assuming
that they have attained what they have not yet attained. Upanishads have warned at quite a few places that this
highest knowledge should not be imparted to each and everyone indiscriminately. What is the harm, if everyone is
already the Self or nobody has to realise anything ?

My post is not to counter what you offered but just to clarify my position on this issue. Maharshi Ramana does talk of
various instruments to attain realisation. In his book "Reflections" he advises the following instruments :

a) Contemplation (Who am I ?) --- for seekers who have no problem in concentration and who are capable of
differentiating between Self and not-self.

b) Devotion to God (Bhakti) --- For those whose mind is not at rest and they can't concentrate and discriminate easily.

c) Meditation --- This is another instrument to bring the restless mind in control.

d) PrANAyAm (Breath control) --- Prescribed for those who are just the beginners and have very restless minds.

These instruments help us in discarding everything what is not-self and stay in Self. The mind has to learn to be silent
without a chatter. Only when this is achieved, with the grace of Guru the Self shines and then we realise our true
nature.

We are already Self and we don't have to become or convert into Self ... this is absolutely true. However, we stick to
strong identification with not-self like our body/ego/intellect/past impressions etc. This dirt which covers the Self must
be removed and the state when it is removed is Self-realisation.

The above is my understanding but I can't claim that it is flawless.

OM

"Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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19 September 2014, 01:22 AM #28

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silence_speaks
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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry - Explained...

Dear Devotee ji,
Namasthe!

I am really happy to see your posts and the questions.

1. Scriptures do state again and again that this knowledge should not be presented to those who are not eligible for it.
Yoga Vasishta makes it very clear:

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This knowledge is for one who is not totally deluded(Who does not seek this knowledge), nor for the one who is fully
liberated (since he does not need). It is for one who understands he is bound (to understand i am bound means i am not
fully deluded. It means i understand clearly. I am a seeker) and wants to find a way out of the bondage.
I have not seen a better description for qualification. Do you feel you are bound and seek to find a way out of it
through study of scriptures and by learning from Sadhus ? If yes, you are eligible for it. If no! then you either dont
need this knowledge or not eligible for it yet.

There are other places where sadhana chatushtayam etc are mentioned. These are qualities we should develop as we
study. One of my professors used to state the prerequisites for a course and add: Either you come with these
prerequisites and learning will be easy or you are ready to work harder and pick up these prerequisites as the course
progresses.

So The qualifications can be acquired quickly if the desire for liberation is strong.

Finally , regarding Ramana's teachings .... Though these are all different externally --- what happens within is just the
same. For example: externally i may be chanting a prayer with the aid of which I resolve myself and remain as "Self"!
Externally i may do a little bit of pranayama ... internally i remain as Self with its aid. Externally i might ask "Who am
i" ... to Just Be as Self !

Externally there are seeming differences in the methods. internal abidance is the end for all. But Ramana categorized
these as superior or inferior since ... if i need the aid of loud chanting to be with myself ... i cannot do it anywhere or
everywhere ! If I can simply do japa and be with myself ... its a little better , because there is no external aid needed.
I can do it in a train or a cab. But then i cannot do japa while working [until atleast it transforms to ajapa] ... so to
remain with Self without the aid of any such means is said to be superior, since i can be it 24 7! And whether or not i
can remain as Self 24 7 depends on my understanding and conviction alone !

Love!
Silence

Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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