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Interviews Thomas Szasz on Freedom and
New & Featured
Psychotherapy
By Approach
By Therapeutic Issue by Randall C. Wyatt

By Population The foremost psychiatric critic of our times, Thomas Szasz,

By Interviewee engages in an in-depth dialogue of his life's work including
freedom and liberty, the myth of mental illness, drug laws,
View All Articles the fragile state of psychotherapy, and his passion for
humanistic values and social justice.
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Time Limited Dynamic Sections in this Interview:
Psychotherapy
The Myth of Mental Illness 101
by Hanna Levenson
Slavery, Witchcraft, and Psychiatry
The Right to Use Drugs
The Therapeutic State and the Medical Model
Liberty and the Practice of Psychotherapy

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The Psychiatric Repression of
Thomas Szasz: Its Social and
Political Signi cance
by Ron Leifer
Practical Psychoanalysis for
Therapists and Patients
by Owen Renik
Self-Help Snake Oil and Self-
Improvement Urban Legends
by Steven Kraus
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Psychotherapy, Szasz Style
Critics and Heroes
The Myth of Mental Illness 101 Back to Top ▲
Randall I am going to ask you a wide variety of questions, given the diversity of your interests, and I
C.
want to make sure to also focus on your work as a psychotherapist. A little background rst.
Wyatt:
You've been well-known for the phrase, "the myth of mental illness." In less than 1000 words,
what does it mean?
Thomas The phrase "the myth of mental illness" means that mental illness qua illness does not exist.
Szasz: The scienti c concept of illness refers to a bodily lesion, that is, to a material — structural or
functional — abnormality of the body, as a machine. This is the classic, Virchowian,
pathological de nition of disease and it is still the de nition of disease used by pathologists
and physicians as scienti c healers.
The brain is an organ — like the bones, liver, kidney, and so on — and of course can be
diseased. That's the domain of neurology. Since a mind is not a bodily organ, it cannot be
diseased, except in a metaphorical sense — in the sense in which we also say that a joke is sick
or the economy is sick. Those are metaphorical ways of saying that some behavior or condition
is bad, disapproved, causing unhappiness, etc. In other
words, talking about "sick minds" is analogous to In other words, talking
talking about "sick jokes" or "sick economies." In the about "sick minds" is
case of mental illness, we are dealing with a analogous to talking about
metaphorical way of expressing the view that the "sick jokes" or "sick
speaker thinks there is something wrong about the economies."
behavior of the person to whom he attributes the
"illness."
In short, just as there were no witches, only women disapproved and called "witches," so there
are no mental diseases, only behaviors of which psychiatrists disapprove and call them "mental
illnesses." Let's say a person has a fear of going out into the open. Psychiatrists call that
"agoraphobia" and claim it is an illness. Or if a person has odd ideas or perceptions,
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psychiatrists say he has "delusions" or "hallucinations." Or he uses illegal drugs or commits
mass murder. These are all instances of behaviors, not diseases. Nearly everything I say about
psychiatry follows from that.
... Continue Reading Interview >>
Copyright © 2001 Psychotherapy.net. All rights reserved. Published December 2000
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EARN 1.5 CREDITS
Thomas S. Szasz received his M.D. degree
from the University of Cincinnati. He is
currently professor of psychiatry $22.50 or 1.5 CE Points
emeritus at SUNY Health Science Center View CE Test Learning Objectives
in Syracuse, New York, where he has
taught since 1956. Dr. Szasz is the author Add to Cart
of over 600 articles, book chapters, book
reviews, and newspaper columns. His
classic The Myth of Mental Illness (1961)
made him a gure of international fame and controversy.
Many of his works--such as Law, Liberty, and Psychiatry, The
Ethics of Psychoanalysis, Ceremonial Chemistry, and Our Right
to Drugs are regarded as among the most influential in the
20th century by leaders in medicine, law, and the social
sciences.
Randall C. Wyatt, PhD is a practicing
psychologist in Oakland and Dublin,
California. He specializes in working with
post-traumatic stress, cross-cultural
therapeutic relationships and couples
therapy and has extensive teaching
experience.
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