It is accepted by the majority of the members of the Vaisnava

community that once having attained the spiritual world one

cannot fall down. Numerous sastric texts (and commentaries)
support this, such as: Bhagavad-gita 4.9, 8.15, 8.16, 13.24, 15.4,
15.6, 8.22, purport [of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada],
and Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.2.31, 10.6.40, 3.16.12, purp.,
3.25.29, purp., 7.1.34, purp. for example. We substantiate, by
pertinent quotes, in the following section that nitya-siddha
devotees, eternal residents who are already in the spiritual
world, also never fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka.
Sastric texts:
A pure devotee of the Lord can never forget those lotus feet in
any circumstance. He will not give up his shelter at the lotus feet
of the Lord for a single moment-indeed, not for half a moment-
even in exchange of the benediction of ruling and enjoying the
opulence of the entire universe. (Bhag. 11.2.53, text)
The living entities [jivas] are divided into two categories. Some
are eternally liberated, and others are eternally conditioned.
Those who are eternally liberated are always awake to Krsna
consciousness, and they render transcendental loving service at
the feet of Lord Krsna. They are to be considered eternal
associates of Krsna, and they are eternally enjoying the
transcendental bliss of serving Krsna. (Cc. Madhya-lila 22.10-
11, text)
In the spiritual sky there are spiritual planets known as
Vaikunthas, which are the residence of the Supreme Personality
of Godhead and His pure devotees) (Bhag. 3.15.13, text.)
. . . and in the spiritual world every living entity is called
infallible. (Bg. 15.16, text)
Srila Vrndavana dasa Thakura:
Therefore there is no birth or death for the Vaisnavas [the
eternal associates]. They descend to the material world with the
Lord and return to His abode with Him. The Vaisnava is never
bound by karma and thus does not take birth in the material
world. (Caitanya-Bhagavata Antya-lila 10.172)
Srila Rupa Gosvami:
Even the associates of the Lord are described as having eternal
forms. (Laghu-bhag. 1.143)
The samprapta-siddhas are those who have become perfect by
performing bhakti and nitya-siddhas are those who have never
been conditioned and thus are eternally siddhas. (Brs. 2.1.281,
text)
The nitya-siddha devotees love Krsna millions of times more
than their own selves. They all have eternal, blissful qualities
just like Lord Krsna. (Brs. 2.1.290, text)
Srila Jiva Gosvami:
The third of ten characteristics of Vaikuntha listed by Srila Jiva
Gosvami in Bhagavat-sandarbha, text 61, is that anyone who has
attained Vaikuntha does not fall. Srila Jiva Gosvami also
provides numerous examples and quotes as proof of this fact.
Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana:
Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana writes in Govinda-bhasya, "One
cannot even imagine that the Supreme Lord Hari would ever
desire that the liberated souls fall down, nor would the liberated
souls ever desire to leave the Lord." He further states that this is
because of their extreme mutual love and cites four verses as
evidence (Bg. 7.17, Bhag. 9.4.68, 9.4.65 and 2.8.6).
Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura:
Mahavisnu, the incarnation of Sankarsana, establishing Himself
in the jiva-sakti as Paramatma, reveals the jiva-souls of the
mundane world. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of
maya. Till by dint of God's grace they get shelter under the
Hladini (bliss-giving) element of the cit-sakti, they are liable to
be overcome by maya. As such, the conclusion is that it is the
jiva-sakti that begets the jivas, and not the cit-sakti. (Jaiva-
Dharma, p. 216)
. . . Gradually they reach the transcendental abode of the Lord
and attain the exact same status as His eternal associates. (Jaiva
Dharma, p. 229)
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura:
Jivas are of two kinds. 1) Nitya-mukta (eternally free) 2) Nitya-
baddha (eternally enslaved). Free jivas are never
enslaved. They are ever serving the Supreme God. (Vaisnavism
Real and Apparent, Lecture, Bhaktisiddanta S T )
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada:
The living entities are parts and parcels of the Lord. They are of
two varieties, namely nitya-mukta and nitya-baddha. The nitya-
muktas are eternally liberated souls, and they are eternally
engaged in the reciprocation of transcendental loving service
with the Lord in His eternal abode beyond the manifested
mundane creations. (Bhag.1.10.22, purp.)
. . . the planets in the spiritual sky . . . are in fact transcendental
to the material modes . . . The conception of spiritual bliss
(Brahmananda) is fully present in those planets . . . and free
from all kinds of inebriates experienced in the material
world . . . The inhabitants of those planets are liberated from
birth, death, old age and diseases and have full knowledge of
everything; they are all godly and free from all sorts of material
hankerings. They have nothing to do there except to render
transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord . . . The Lord
and His eternal servitors in the transcendental kingdom all
have eternal forms which are auspicious, infallible, spiritual
and eternally youthful. In the words, there is no birth, death, old
age and disease. That eternal land is full of transcendental
enjoyment and full of beauty and bliss. This very fact is also
corroborated in this verse of Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the
transcendental nature is described as amrta. As described in the
Vedas, utamrtatvasyesanah: the Supreme Lord is the Lord of
immortality, or in other words, the Lord is immortal, and
because He is the Lord of immortality He can award immortality
to His devotees. In the Bhagavad-gita (8.16) the Lord also
assures that whoever may go to His abode of immortality shall
never return to this mortal land of threefold miseries . . . In the
material world there is always anxiety or fearfulness in the
hearts of all living entities, but the Lord, being Himself the
supreme fearless, also awards the same quality of fearlessness to
His pure devotees. Mundane existence is itself a kind of fear
because in all mundane bodies the effects of birth, death, old age
and disease always keep a living being compact in fear. In the
mundane world, there is always the influence of time, which
changes things from one stage to another, and the living entity
originally being avikara, or unchangeable, suffers a great deal on
account of changes due to the influence of time.
The changing effects of eternal time are conspicuously absent in
the immortal kingdom of God, which should therefore be
understood to have no influence of time and therefore no fear
whatsoever. (Bhag.2.6.18, purp.)
The nitya-siddha devotees never fall down to the region of the
material atmosphere even though they sometimes come into the
material plane to execute the mission of the Lord. (Bhag. 3.3.26,
purp.)
A pure living entity in his original spiritual existence is fully
conscious of his constitutional position as an eternal servitor
of the Lord. All souls who are situated in such pure
consciousness are liberated, and therefore they eternally live in
bliss and knowledge in the various Vaikuntha planets in the
spiritual sky. When the material creation is manifested, it is not
meant for them. The eternally liberated souls are called nitya-
muktas, and they have nothing to do with the material
creation. The material creation is meant for rebellious souls
who are not prepared to accept subordination under the Supreme
Lord. (Bhag. 3.5.29, purp.)
. . . a devotee in the transcendental abode of the Lord never
falls. (Bhag. 3.15.48, purp.)
After finishing their mock fighting, both the devotee and the
Lord are again associated in the spiritual planets. That is very
explicitly explained here. The conclusion is that no one falls
from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the
eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purp.)
The inhabitants of Vaikuntha never return to the material
world. (Bhag. 3.16.27, purp.)
A devotee once accepted by the Lord, can never fall down. That
is the conclusion of this incident. [Jaya and Vijaya] (Bhag.
3.16.29, purp.)
The word kuta-stha, meaning "without change," is also very
significant. There are two kinds of living entities-nitya-mukta
and nitya-baddha. A nitya-mukta never forgets his position as
the eternal servant of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
One who does not forget this position and knows that he is part
and parcel of the Supreme Lord is nitya-mukta. Such a nitya-
mukta living entity represents the Supersoul as His expansion.
As stated in the Vedas, nityo nityanam. Thus the nitya-mukta
living entity knows that he is an expansion of the supreme nitya,
or the eternal Supreme Personality of Godhead. (Bhag. 4.16.19,
purp.)
Some living entities are conditioned, and others are eternally
free. The eternally free living entities are called nitya-mukta,
for they never come in contact with the material energy.
However, some living entities are conditioned in this material
world, and thus they think themselves separated from the
Supreme Lord. (Bhag. 4.24.61, purp.)
All the residents of Vaikunthaloka know perfectly well that their
master is Narayana, or Krsna, and that they are all His servants.
They are all self-realized souls who are nitya-mukta,
everlastingly liberated. Although they could conceivably
declare themselves Narayana or Visnu, they never do so; they
always remain Krsna conscious and serve the Lord faithfully.
Such is the atmosphere of Vaikunthaloka. (Bhag. 6.1.34-6,
purp.)
From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of
Lord Visnu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually
fall. They come with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the
Lord, andtheir descent to this material world is comparable
to that of the Lord. The Lord comes to this material world
through the agency of His internal potency, and similarly, when
a devotee or associate of the Lord descends to this material
world, he does so through the action of the spiritual energy. Any
pastime conducted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead is
an arrangement by yoga-maya, not maha-maya. Therefore it
is to understood that when Jaya and Vijaya descended to this
material world,they came because there was something to be
done for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise it is
a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha. (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.)
One who is not materially infected and who does not forget
Krsna as his master is called nitya-mukta. In other words, one
who is eternally liberated from material contamination is called
nitya-mukta. From time immemorial the nitya-mukta living
entity has always been a devotee of Krsna, and his only attempt
has been to serve Krsna. Thus he never forgets his eternal
servitorship to Krsna. (Cc. Madhya-lila 20.118, purp.)
Srila Prabhupada confirms his agreement with Srila
Bhaktivinoda Thakura.
An explanation of verses 8 through 15 is given by Srila
Bhaktivinoda Thakura in his Amrta-pravaha-bhasya . . . The
living entities are divided into two categoriesthe eternally
liberated and eternally conditioned. Those who are ever-
liberated never come in contact with maya, the external energy.
The ever-conditioned are always under the clutches of the
external energy . . . The nitya-baddhas are always conditioned
by the external energy, and the nitya-muktas never come in
contact with the external energy. Sometimes an ever-
liberated personal associate of the Supreme Personality of
Godhead descends into this universe just as the Lord descends.
Although working for the liberation of conditioned souls, the
messenger of the Supreme Lord remains untouched by the
material energy. Generally ever-liberated personalities live in
the spiritual world as associates of Lord Krsna, and they are
known as krsna-parsada, associates of the Lord. Their only
business is enjoying Lord Krsna's company, and even though
such eternally liberated persons come within this material world
to serve the Lord's purpose, they enjoy Lord Krsna's company
without stoppage . . . The ever-conditioned soul, provoked by
lusty desires to enjoy the material world, is subjected to
transmigrate from one body to another . . . If by chance he meets
a saintly person who works on Krsna's behalf to deliver
conditioned souls, and if he agrees to abide by his order, he can
gradually approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna.
(Cc Madhya-lila 22.14-15, purp.)
The third-class person in Krsna consciousness may fall down,
but when one is in the second class he does not fall down, and
for the first-class person in Krsna consciousness there is no
chance of falling down. (Bg. 9.3, purport)
The pure devotee has no actual chance to fall down, because the
Supreme Godhead personally takes care of His pure devotees.
(Bg. 9.34, purport)
Eternally liberated living entities never come into contact with
material nature . . . they are counted among the associates of
Krsna. (Teachings of Lord Caitanya, p. 108)
. . .the nitya-siddhas are eternally Krsna conscious without
any forgetfulness . . . you should not consider that My
associates are ever separated from Me . . . they are almost as
powerful as I am . . . they are very, very dear to Me, as I am
very, very dear to them. (Nectar of Devotion, p. 205)
First opportunity to associate with Krsna:
The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krsna
consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe
where Krsna is appearing. In that universe the devotees get
their first opportunity to associate with Krsna personally and
directly. (Krsna Book, Ch. 28, 6th paragraph)
There are two kinds of souls: conditioned and liberated, nitya-
baddha, nitya-mukta. Just like we are, similarly, there are living
entities in the spiritual sky also, but they are liberated.
They never become conditioned. We are conditioned. We do
not know from when, but we are conditioned. So jiva yara vasi.
In this material world, we conditioned, we are residents. But in
the spiritual world the residents are all liberated souls. Jagal-
laksmi rakhi' rahe yahan maya dasi. (670105CC.NY)
They live in the spiritual world, Vaikuntha planets. Nitya-
mukta. Nitya-mukta means eternally liberated.They never come
down in this material world.(Bhag. Lecture, June 20, 1973,
Mayapura)
The following quotes clearly distinguish that the nitya-baddhas
can be liberated and that the nitya-siddhas are never enslaved in
the material world even when they come here.
The nitya-muktas are in Vaikuntha jagat, the spiritual world and
they never fall into the material world. Those in the material
world are conditioned souls, nitya-baddha. The nitya-baddhas
can become liberated by controlling the mind because the cause
of conditioned life is the mind. (Bhag. 5.11.12, purp.)
Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has given a great amount
of evidence from the Vedic literatures proving that the
humanlike form of the Personality of Godhead and His holy
name, abode, paraphernalia and associates are all eternal,
spiritual manifestations without any tinge of material
contamination. (Bhag. 11.30.5, purport by disciples of A. C.
Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada)
There are two kinds of living entities. Nitya-baddha means ever-
conditioned. Ever-conditioned means those who are in this
material world; they do not know when they came in touch with
this material world. Neither do they know when they will be
liberated. They are called nitya-baddha, ever-conditioned. And
similarly, there are nitya-siddhas. Nitya-siddhas means they
never come in contact with this material world, and even if
they come here for some business, they do not forget their
position. That is nitya-siddha. Try to understand. There are two
kinds of living entities: nitya-siddha, nitya-baddha. Nitya-
baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma
down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddhas.
Anyone who is in this material world, nitya-baddha. And nitya-
siddhas, they never come in contact with this material world,
and even they come for some business under the order of the
Supreme Lord, they do not touch these material qualities.
They remain always transcendental. As Krsna remains always
transcendental, even though He is in this material world,
similarly, Krsna's nitya-siddha associates, they are also
transcendental. They never touch this material world. (Bg.
Lecture, July 14, 1973, London)
Those who are in the spiritual world, they are nitya-siddha.
Nitya-mukta. Nitya-mukta means they never come in this
material world. Just like Krsna is nitya-muktya suddha.
Similarly the associates of Krsna who come with Him . . . Just
like the gopis or the cowherd boys . . . they are all nitya-siddha,
nitya-muktya . . . They are in the spiritual form, ananda-
cinmaya-rasa, enjoying always spiritual bliss in the association
of Krsna. (Bhag. June 19, 1972, Los Angeles)
. . . you should know that the great liberated souls and
incarnations who appear from time to time in this material world
are not actually coming back, because they are never subject to
material contamination or the laws of material nature. (Ltr
Srila Prabhupada~Vrndavanesvari, 6 June 1969)
We also mention here that, in regards to the theory that
the nitya-muktas fall from the spiritual world and the baddha-
mukta (bound who become liberated) do not fall, there is no
evidence in sastrasupporting or even mentioning this theory, nor
do sanskrit terms exist for the mukta-baddha (liberated who
become bound). Absolutely no distinction is made in the
writings of our acaryas or in sastrabetween different classes of
living entities in the spiritual world in reference to being eligible
to fall or not; indeed no direct sastric or acarya reference states
that any of them fall down. Neither is there any explicit mention
in scripture of fallen nitya-muktas. The theory that the associates
of the Lord in the spiritual world fall down implies that nitya-
muktas (eternally liberated residents of Vaikuntha) are inferior
to baddha-muktas (those bound in the material world who
become liberated). This theory insinuates that nitya-muktas must
come to the material world to become really fall-proof--to get a
better education--i.e., one cannot be a gentleman unless he first
visits a brothel. It also implies thatbhaya-bhakti, devotion
produced by fear or suffering, is superior to prema-bhakti, for
only bhaya-bhakti gives complete protection to a devotee, that
he will never fall down.
Maha-maya is the deluding potency which covers the living
entity in material existence. "The living entity cannot be
forgetful of his real identity unless influenced by the avidya
potency." (Bhag. 3.7.5, purp.) In the spiritual world there is no
illusion, no fear whatsoever, nor anxiety . The following quotes
show that no mundane qualities whatsoever exist in the spiritual
world. The inherent qualities of the residents of the spiritual
worlds and of the spiritual world itself, do not allow it's
residents to become bewildered, envious or susceptible to maya.
Sastric texts:
In the personal abode of the Lord . . . There is no predominance
of the influence of time, so what to speak of the illusory,
external energy [maha-maya]; it cannot enter that region. (Bhag.
2.9.10, TEXT)
. . . Vaikuntha, where there is no fear. (Bhag. 12.11.19, text)
The Viraja, or Causal Ocean, is the border between the spiritual
and material worlds. The material energy is situated on one
shore of that ocean, and it cannot enter onto the other shore,
which is the spiritual sky. (Cc. Madhya-lila 20.269, text)
Srila Jiva Gosvami
In Bhagavat-sandarbha text 75-78, Sri Jiva describes that
the Lord's associates have transcendental bodies, possess
qualities identical to those of the Lord, they are beyond the
influence of time, are all suddha-sattva in nature, eternal,
immutable, devoid of the lower modes, free from lust and greed,
are effulgent with Vedic knowledge and are the personification
of the fivefold worship of the Lord.
Srila Sanatana Gosvami:
Devotional service cannot be performed without disturbance in
any place other than Vaikuntha and in the association of like-
minded devotees. (Brhad-Bhag. 2.3.131-2) Sanatana Gosvami
comments further, "In Vaikuntha there are no obstacles to
bhakti created by elements such as time."
Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura:
The jivas who are the eternal devotees of God in Goloka
Vrndavana and in Paravyoma (Vaikuntha) . . . are adroit in the
service of the worshipable entity, God . . . they have nothing to
do with maya, without any knowledge even of the existence of a
sakti known as maya-sakti . . . They are ever free from
bondage. It is love that is their very life; affliction, death and
fear are quite unknown to them. Also, the atomic jivas who are
the outcomes of the rays of the glance of Mahavishnu lying in
the ocean of karana (cause) towards maya-are numberless.
Because they are by side of maya, the variegatedness of maya is
visible to them. The characteristics that have been stated of the
jivas in common are in them; yet due to their atomic character
turn their eyes towards the cit region as also the world of maya
from the border line. In this condition, the jivas are too weak,
because they have not acquired the cit strength through the grace
of the Entity (God) to Whom their service is due. (Jaiva
Dharma, Chapter 16, p. 227, translated and published by the
Madras Gaudiya Matha)
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Each and every Vaikuntha planet is many, many times bigger
than the biggest universe within the material world, and in each
of them there are innumerable inhabitants who look exactly like
Lord Visnu. These inhabitants are known as the Maha-
paurusikas, or persons directly engaged in the service of the
Lord. They are happy in those planets and are without any kind
of misery, and they live perpetually in full youthfulness,
enjoying life in full bliss and knowledge without fear of birth,
death, old age or disease, and without the influence of kala,
eternal time. (Bhag. 1.14.35-6, purp.)
In the spiritual world there is no struggle for existence
because everyone there exists eternally. There is no
disparity because everyone wants to render service to the
Supreme Lord, and no one wants to imitate the Lord in
becoming the beneficiary. The Lord, being creator of
everything, including the living beings, factually is the
proprietor and enjoyer of everything that be, but in the material
world, by the spell of maya, or illusion, this eternal relation with
the Supreme Personality of Godhead is forgotten, and so the
living being is conditioned under the law of struggle for
existence and survival of the fittest. (Bhag. 1.15.25-6, purp.)
The well-situated self, or Brahman-realized soul, perfectly
understands that the Supreme Brahman, or the personality of
Godhead, is the all-powerful Väsudeva and that he (the self-
realized living being) is a part and parcel of the supreme whole.
As such, his constitutional position is to cooperate with Him in
all respects in the transcendental relation of the served and the
servitor. Such a self-realized soulceases to exhibit his useless
activities of attempting to lord it over material nature. Being
scientifically well informed, he fully engages himself in faithful
devotion to the Lord. (Bhag. 2.2.19)
. . . those planets in the spiritual sky, which comprises the
seventy-five percent expansion of the internal potency of the
Lord . . . The inhabitants of those planets are liberated from
birth, death, old age and diseases and have full knowledge of
everything; they are all godly and free from all sorts of
material hankerings. They have nothing to do there except
to render transcendental loving service to the Supreme
Lord . . .The Lord and His eternal servitors in the transcendental
kingdom all have eternal forms which are
auspicious, infallible, spiritual and eternally youthful . . . In the
material world there is always anxiety or fearfulness . . . in the
kingdom of God . . . no influence of time and therefore no fear
whatsoever . . . Happiness in spiritual nature always increases
in volume with a new phase of appreciation; there is no question
of decreasing the bliss. Such unalloyed spiritual bliss is nowhere
to be found within the orbit of the material universe. (Bhag.
2.6.18, purport)
In the Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda, it is stated that beyond the
one-fourth part of God's creation is the three-fourths
manifestation . . . This part is eternal, everlasting, without
deterioration, and unlimited, and it contains the highest
perfectional stage of living conditions. In the Sankhya-
kaumudi it is stated that unalloyed goodness or transcendence is
just opposite to the material modes. All living entities [in the
Vaikunthalokas ] are eternally associated without any break. .
. everything in the transcendental world is everlasting . . . There
are no such actions and reactions of cause and effects there,
so the cycle of birth, growth, existence, tranformations,
deterioration and annihilation-the six material changes-are not
existent there. It is the unalloyed manifestation of the energy of
the Lord, without illusion as experienced here in the material
world. (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport)
The Lord and His devotees reside in the Vaikuntha planets,
and they are of the same transcendental quality,
namely, suddha-sattva, the mode of pure goodness. (Bhag.
3.15.15, purp.)
In the spiritual sky the planets are called Vaikuntha because the
residents of these planets are free from all anxieties. . . . On the
other hand, the residents of the material planets are always
afraid . . . full of anxieties. (Bhag. 3.15.13, purport)
In the Vaikuntha planets there is no scarcity of the things which
are available in the material world; they are available, but they
are more valuable because they are spiritual and therefore
eternal and blissful... The word yoga-maya is used in this verse.
Yoga-maya-balena vikuntham. The transcendental happiness
exhibited in the spiritual world and all other spiritual
manifestations there are made possible by the influence of yoga-
maya, the internal potency of the Supreme Personality of
Godhead. (Bhag. 3.15.26, purport)
Those who are ever-liberated never come in contact with maya,
the external energy. (Bg. 7.14, purport)
Everything in the Goloka Vrndavana planet is a spiritual
expansion of sac-cid-ananda. Everyone there is of the same
potencyananda-cinmaya-rasa. The relationship between the
Supreme Personality of Godhead and His servitor is cinmaya-
rasa. Krsna and His entourage and paraphernalia are of
thesame cinmaya potency. (Cc. Madhya-lila 19.154, purp.)
. . . Maha-maya is horrible to the conditioned soul, but to the
liberated soul, there is no fear of maha-maya, because he
is protected by yoga-maya. (SP Ltr Madhusudhana, July 29th
1968)
One thing you may inform all devotees that maya cannot touch
a pure devotee. When you find a devotee is supposed to be in
difficulty it is not the work of maya but is the work of the Lord
by His personal internal energy . . . It is clearly stated in the
Bhagavad-gita that anyone who is cent per cent engaged in the
service of the Lord is transcendentally situated and the influence
of maya has no more any action on such body. The Lord and
His pure devotees are always beyond the range of maya's
action. Even though they appear like the action of maya, we
should understand their action of yoga-maya or the internal of
potency of the Lord. (SP Ltr Satsvarupa: April 3, 1968)
In the ISKCON GBC Position booklet it is stated that the
residents of the spiritual world have the free will to leave, as a
crazy man has the free will to jump off the roof. In this booklet
they state that these residents are indeed crazy (bewildered)
when they leave. Yet we find quotes (presented below) that
everyone in the spiritual world is fully cognizant in their sat-cit-
ananda spiritual body, fully in knowledge of their position and
cannot become illusioned; additionally, illusion being a product
of maya, is not allowed there-na yatra maya (Bhag. 2.9.10).
Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura writes,
Because of association with avidya, which has no beginning, the
jiva has forgotten his blissful and conscious nature and has
developed a false ego in the material body. He suffers because
of acquiring bodily characteristics and misfortune, therefore no
one is to be blamed. (Commentary on Bhag. 3.7.9)
Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes,
The root of all actions is the desire for acts, the root of which
again is avidya. Avidya is the name for the forgetfulness of
[the] soul's essential nature that 'I am Krsna's servant.' This
avidya did not commence within the course of the mundane
time. That root of karma of the jiva arose when he was at the
tatastha position. As such, the beginning of karma is not to be
traced within mundane time, and, on that account karma is
beginningless. (Jaiva Dharma, page 234)
Srila Prabhupada writes,
How then can the living entiry become forgetful of his real
identity as pure spirit soul and identify with matter unless
influenced by something beyond himself? The conclusion is that
the living entity isinfluenced by the avidya potency, as is
confirmed in both the Visnu Purana and the beginning of
Srimad-Bhagavatam . . . The living entity cannot be forgetful
of his real identity unless influenced by the avidya potency.
(Bhag. 3.7.5, purp.)
A living entity misuses his little independence when he wants to
lord it over material nature. This misuse of independence, which
is called maya, is always available, otherwise there would be
not independence. Independence implies that one can use it
properly or improperly. (Bhag. 3.31.15, purp.)
The devotees of the Lord do not misuse their freedom. (Bhag.
1.8.23, purp.)
Bhaktijana: When the souls that were never conditioned at
all..., do they also have the independence?
Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not misused. They
know that "I am meant for Krsna's service," and they are happy
in Krsna's service. (670218CC.SF)
Everyone in the spiritual world is fully cognizant of their actual
position. To desire something else when in full knowledge, fully
satisfied and full of bliss is highly unlikely:
Text:
My devotee actually becomes self-realized by My unlimited
causeless mercy, and thus, when freed from all doubts, he
steadily progresses towards his destined abode, which
is directly under the protection of My spiritual energy of
unadulterated bliss. That is the ultimate perfectional goal of
the living entity. (Bhag. 3.27.28-29, text)
A pure devotee of the Lord can never forget those lotus feet in
any circumstance. (Bhag. 11.2.53, text)
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura
In Cit-jagat there is no ignorance whatsoever of free souls.
(Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura: Sri Caitanya's
Teachings-Part II, Chapter One, p. 390-1)
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
. . . enjoying life in full bliss and knowledge without fear of
birth, death, old age or disease, and without the influence of
kala, eternal time. (Bhag. 1.14.35-6, purp.)
The inhabitants of those planets are liberated from birth, death,
old age and diseases and have full knowledge of everything.
(Bhag. 2.6.18, purp.)
They eternally live in bliss and knowledge in the various
Vaikuntha planets in the spiritual sky. (Bhag. 3.5.29, purp.)
One who does not forget this position and knows that he is part
and parcel of the Supreme Lord isnitya-mukta. (Bhag. 4.16.19,
purp.)
Those who are in the spiritual world are known to
be completely self-realized because on the spiritual platform
the living entity is not forgetful of his service to the Lord.
Therefore in the spiritual world all those who are in the
devotional service of the Lord are eternally fixed, for they
understand the position of the Supreme Being, as well as their
individual constitution. (Bhag. 4.24.33, purp.)
They are all self-realized souls who are nitya-mukta. (Bhag.
6.1.34-6, purp.)
[Nitya-mukta] He never forgets his eternal servitorship to
Krsna. (Cc. Madhya-lila 20.118, purp.)
The nitya-siddhas are eternally Krsna conscious without any
forgetfulness. (Nectar of Devotion, p. 205)
In the Vaikuntha sky everyone is in full knowledge. (Krsna
Book, Ch. 28, 7th parag.)
"When one goes to a transcendental planet, it is necessary to
change both the finer and gross bodies, for one has to reach the
spiritual sky completely in a spiritual form." (Cc. Adi-lila 5.22,
purp.)
Where not only is life eternal, blissful and full of knowledge . . .
ignorance, misery, egoism, anger and envy-are completely
absent . . . the influence of maya, the total external
energy, which induces us tobecome more and more
materialistic and forget our relationship with God, is
also absent there . . . the living beings in Vaikunthaloka
are never forgetful of their identities (Cc. Madhya-lila 5.22,
purp.)
He has His eternal form of bliss and knowledge (sac-cid-
ananda-vigraha). Everything in the Goloka Vrndavana planet is
a spiritual expansion of sac-cid-ananda. Everyone there is of
the same potencyananda-cinmaya-rasa. The relationship
between the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His servitor is
cinmaya-rasa. Krsna and His entourage and paraphernalia are
of the same cinmaya potency. (Cc. Madhya-lila 19.154, purp.)
The inhabitants of those planets are liberated from birth, death,
old age and diseases and have full knowledge of everything.
(Bhag. 2.6.18, purp.)
Prominent mistakes:
We contrast these descriptions of self-realization and full
knowledge regarding the residents of the spiritual worlds with
that presented in the GBC Position Booklet. Therein, "full of
knowledge" is defined as "possessing only a small portion of
knowledge according to ones small capacity and necessity." It is
also stated that, "the living entity, covered by envy, cannot
recognize that he will suffer in the material world...Covered by
lust, the living entity forgets his original knowledge and enters
into the material domain to try to satisfy his desires." Here in
particular, three mistakes are made. The first mistake is the
assumption that "full knowledge," in reference to the residents
of the spiritual world, can be interpreted to mean that these
residents are not fully self realized--as stated througout sastra
and repeatedly by Srila Prabhupada. Numerous supporting
references have already been presented earlier in this section.
In the material world the minute jivas, who are sac-cid-ananda
by nature, are covered over by maya and are thus in a
bewildered state. When the living entity uses his free will to try
and enjoy independently of the Lord in the material world, he is
covered by maya and is forced to serve maya. He has no choice,
in the sense that he is attached and thinks this is in his best
interest. Although he has the free choice to choose spiritual
life, he sees this as a threat to his sense gratification and
therefore undesirable. Therefore materialistic atheists resist the
efforts of preachers.
In the spiritual world however, the living entity, fully absorbed
in ecstatic love, cannot bear the thought of doing anything
averse to the Lord's interest--seeing this as a threat to his
continued absorption in pure loving devotional service--his
very life. Here in the spiritual world, all the living entities are
fully self-realized, in that they have fully realized the
conclusions of sastra--that they are an eternal servant of the
Lord, and they are fully experiencing their realizations of eternal
blissfulness. It is not that they know every last detail of sastra.
For example, some of the gopis were previously the Personified
Vedas. Although as gopis, they exhibited the highest standard of
devotion as recognized by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu-ramya
kacit upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena, they had almost no
knowledge of the Vedas, and state as much in their wonderful
prayers upon meeting their beloved Krsna after so long at
Kuruksetra. (Bhag. 10.82.48) Yet we should not agree with
them that they are ordinary girls simply engaged in household
affairs. They are the personification of the Vedas, absorbed in
the highest mellows of devotion.
The second mistake as mentioned above, is that the living
entity may be covered by envy and lust while still within the
spiritual world.
The third mistake is that a resident of the spiritual world has
desires to satisfy. These points are discussed in section three.
As stated above by Srila Prabhupada, residents of the spiritual
world are blissful and are never forgetful of their eternal
position as servitors of the Supreme Lord. For them to turn away
from the Lord toward the material world is equivalent to a
normal sane man considering jumping off of a roof as a viable
option in life. They have the freedom to do so, but never
consider it for a moment.

The following quotes substantiate that there is no possibility of

emnity between the Lord and His personal associates in the
spiritual world. Envy and disharmony are nonexistent there. The
eternal residents are completely satisfied and all their desires are
satisfied by rendering service to the Lord.
Sastric texts:
In the Vaikuntha world there is complete harmony between the
residents and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (Bhag.
3.15.33, text)
And in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible.
(Bg.15.16, text)
Srila Rupa Goswami:
All the eternally perfected devotees have eternal and blissful
qualities just like Lord Mukunda. Their supreme love for Krsna
is millions and missions of times more than their love for their
own self or body. (Brs. 2.1.290)
Srila Jiva Goswami:
According to Srila Jiva Gosvami, the so-called fight among the
members of the Yadu dynasty was actually a display of the
pastime potency of the Lord, since Lord Krsna's personal
associates are never subject to ordinary birth and death like
conditioned souls. (Bhag. 11.31.11, purport)
Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada:
In Vaikunthaloka there is no occupation but the service of the
Lord, and this service is not rendered with a purpose. Although
every service has a particular result, the devotees never aspire
for the fulfillment of their own desires; their desires are
fulfilled by rendering transcendental loving service to the Lord.
(Bhag. 3.15.14, purport)
In the Vaikuntha world, the spiritual sky, only the mode of
goodness in its pure form exists. The Lord and His
devotees reside in the Vaikuntha planets, and they are of the
same transcendental quality, namely, suddha-sattva, the mode
of pure goodness. (Bhag. 3.15.15, purp.)
Serving the Lord in transcendental love yields
such transcendental pleasure that, in comparison,sense
gratification is counted as insignificant. (Bhag. 3.15.17, purp.)
The most important thing about the spiritual world is that there
is no envy among the devotees there. This is true even among
the flowers, which are all conscious of the greatness of tulasi. In
the Vaikuntha world entered by the four Kumaras, even the
birds and flowers are conscious of service to the Lord. (Bhag.
3.15.19, purp.)
The difference between the inhabitants of a Vaikuntha planet
and those of a material planet is that in Vaikuntha all the
residents engage in the service of the Lord Himself and are
equipped with all His good qualities. It has been analyzed by
great personalities that when a conditioned soul is liberated and
becomes a devotee, about seventy-nine percent of all the good
qualities of the Lord develop in his person. Therefore in the
Vaikuntha world there is no question of enmity between the
Lord and the residents. Here in this material world the citizens
may be inimical to the chief executives or heads of state, but in
Vaikuntha there is no such mentality. One is not allowed to
enter Vaikuntha unless he has completely developed the good
qualities. The basic principle of goodness is to accept
subordination from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The
sages therefore, were surprised to see that the two doormen who
checked them from entering the palace were not exactly like the
residents of Vaikunthaloka. It may be said that a doorman's duty
is to determine who should be allowed to enter the palace and
who should not. But that is not relevant in this matter because
no one is allowed to enter the Vaikuntha planets unless he has
developed one hundred percent his mentality of devotional
service to the Supreme Lord. No enemy of the Lord can enter
Vaikunthaloka. (Bhag. 3.15.32, purport)
In the Vaikuntha world there is no disharmony between the
Lord and the residents. Therefore God's creation in the
Vaikuntha world is perfect. There is no cause of fear. The entire
kingdom of God is such a completely harmonious unit that there
is no possibility of emnity. Everything there is absolute . . . in
the Vaikuntha planets the Lord is perfect, and the inhabitants
also are perfectly engaged in the service of the Lord . . . Maya
means disharmony between the living entities and the Supreme
Lord, andVaikuntha means harmony between them. (Bhag.
3.15.33, purp.)
Any material happiness is like water in a ditch, whereas the
spiritual happiness eternally enjoyed in the spiritual world is like
an ocean of nectar in which a devotee wants to swim. (Bhag.
6.12.22, purp.)
In the advanced stage, one falls completely in love with Krsna.
This highest perfectional stage of life enables the devotee to be
transferred to Krsna's abode in the spiritual sky, Goloka
Vrndavana, where the devotee becomes eternally happy. (Bg.
8.28, purp.)
Here the Lord is giving, in summary, the contents of the
Vedanta-sutra. He says that the living entities, who are
innumerable, can be divided into two classes the fallible and the
infallible. The living entities are eternally separated parts and
parcels of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When they are
in contact with the material world they are called jiva-bhuta, and
the Sanskrit words given here, ksarah sarvani bhutani, mean that
they are fallible. Those who are in oneness with the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, however, are called infallible. Oneness
does not mean that they have no individuality, but that there
is no disunity. (Bg. 15.16, purp.)
This description of the abode of Krsna gives us definite
information of the transcendental place where not only is life
eternal, blissful and full of knowledge, but . . . the qualities in
Vaikuntha are a manifestation of God's internal potency, and
therefore they are purely spiritual and transcendental, with no
trace of material infection . . . where the five inherent qualities
of the material world-namely ignorance, misery, egoism, anger
and envy-are completely absent . . . the influence of maya, the
total external energy, which induces us to become more and
more materialistic and forget our relationship with God, is
also absent there . . . the living beings in Vaikunthaloka
are never forgetfulof their identities: they are eternally
cognizant of their relationship with God . . . There is no
difference between atheists and the faithful in the Vaikuntha
planets because all who settle there are freed from the material
qualities, and thus suras and asuras become equally obedient
loving servitors of the Lord. (Cc. Madhya-lila 5.22, purp.)
The Vrndavana-lila of Krsna is the perfect presentation of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's simply enjoying. And all
the inhabitants of Vrndavana, the gopis, the cowherd boys,
Maharaja Nanda, Yasoda, everyone is simply anxious how to
make Krsna happy. They have no other business. The
inhabitants of Vrndavana has no other business than to satisfy
Krsna, and Krsna has no other business. Yasoda-nandana
brajajana-ranjana. He's acting as the little son of Yasoda,
and His only business is how to please the inhabitants of
Vrndavana. Yasoda-nandana brajajana-ranjana.
[710217CC.GOR]
In many places in the sastra it is stated that the Lord is
completely controlled by His devotees:
The Supreme Living Being is perfect in all relations with His
pure devotee. (Bhag. 1.15.4)
The Lord becomes submissive to even a very insignificant
devotee because of his devotional service. (Cc. Adi-lila 7.145,
text)
He comes under the control of His devotees. (Bhag. 10.9.19,
text)
. . . certainly conquer Your Lordship. (Bhag. 10.14.3, text)
I am completely under the control of My devotees. (Bhag.
9.4.63, text)
The pure devotees . . . bring Me under their full control. (Bhag.
9.4.66, text)
The pure devotee is always within the core of My heart. (Bhag.
9.4.68, text)
How can I give up such devotees at any time? (Bhag. 9.4.65,
text)
It is also generally accepted that the highest and most perfect
devotees are the residents of the spiritual world. So, they are
certainly the most dear to the Lord. Throughout sastra the
spiritual world is referred to as perfect, infallible and eternally
blissful.
Which is directly under the protection of My spiritual
energy of unadulterated bliss. That is the ultimate perfectional
goal of the living entity. (Bhag. 3.27.28-29, text)
Additionally it is stated in many places in sastra that the
Lord easily excuses any offenses by His surrendered devotees:
He is so gentle that even if His servant is implicated in a great
offense, He does not take it very seriously. (Brs. 2.1.138, text)
If devotees completely in love with You sometimes fall from the
path of devotion, they do not fall like nondevotees, for You still
protect them. (Bhag. 10.2.33, text)
If such a surrendered soul accidentally commits some sinful
activity, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is seated
within everyone's heart, immediately takes away the reaction to
such sin. (Bhag. 11.5.42, text)
Declare it boldly that My devotee will never perish. (Bhag.-gita
9.31)
Characteristically, the Supreme Personality of Godhead does
not take seriously an offense committed by a pure devotee.
(Cc. Antya-lila 1.107, text)
Even if His servant is implicated in a great offense, He does not
take it very seriously. (Cc. Antya-lila 1.108, text)
To the eternal servitors of the Lord, the Lord is pleased to give
all protection at all times. (Bhag. 1.14.32-3, purp.)
The Lord is equal in behavior to all living beings, but He is
partial to His pure devotees, being very affectionate toward
them. (Bhag. 1.14.38)
The Lord can tolerate insults upon Himself by any miscreant
because the father tolerates even insults from the son. But He
never tolerates insults upon His devotees. (Bhag. 1.15.10, purp.)
The Lord cannot tolerate any inconvenience on the part of the
devotee. He is therefore famous asbhakta-vatsala. (Bhag.
3.16.7, purp.)
To conclude that the Lord has allowed or arranged for an
uncountably huge number of dear associates of His to
systematically and continuously fall from the spiritual world
(His perfect abode) to hellish repeated mundane births is
illogical and ridiculous, in view of the above references.

In Kåñëa Book, Çréla Prabhupäda also confirms the truth of a

new beginning:
The mature devotees, who have completely executed Kåñëa
consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe
where Kåñëa is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their
first opportunity to associate with Kåñëa personally and
directly. KB, Chapter 28, 6th paragraph
The devotee Visnujana das has repeatedly failed to support his completely incorrect
assertion that:

"The acharyas don't preach we never fall-just the opposite."

He couldn't provide evidence to prove his point that the 'acaryas' (plural, mind you) don’t
preach that we 'never fall' whereas we provided evidence to the contrary:

In Anuccheda 65 Jiva Gosvami states, “There is no unsteadiness or falling in the spiritual

world,”

And Srila Prabhupada himself gives the comclusion on this topic:

"The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is
the eternal abode." SB 3.16.26

His failure to acknowledge his clear mistake and faults here renders him an unreliable
poster.

To sum up:

1. Every single acarya concurs on no-fall, repeatedly. No one has yet to produce any
consistent and repeated evidence to contradict this point, in this thread or anywhere else.

2. Srila Prabhupada preached both fall and no-fall. They both can't be right. Either we
were with Krsna fully engaged in His lila with no chance of fall, as the acaryas state, or
not. The question is, 'Why did he preach like this?'

3. To say that Srila Prabhupada concluded or thinks that we fell from Goloka means that
one thinks he didn't follow the previous acaryas. THAT is offensive thinking.

"The parampara system does not allow one to deviate from the commentaries of the
previous acaryas. By depending upon the previous acaryas, one can write beautiful
commentaries. However, one cannot defy the previous acaryas." Cc, 3.7.134, Purport

"We have to follow the footprints of the acaryas. Acarya means parampara. One acarya
is following the previous acarya. An acarya does not manufacture anything, something
novel. He follows the previous acarya. And therefore he, he's acarya. Lecture, The
Nectar of Devotion, Vrndavana, 11.13.1972

4. To understand why there is an apparent contradiction is not 'offensive.'

"A sincere student should not neglect the discussion of such conclusions, considering
them controversial, for such discussions strengthen the mind. Thus one’s mind becomes
attached to Sri Krsna. CC, 1.2.117

5. Reading the books of the previous acaryas is neither 'jumping over,' ' offensive' or
'defying' Srila Prabhupada. On the contrary it is fully in accord with following Srila
Prabhupada's instructions.

"... false devotees think that studying

books of the previous acaryas is unadvisable, like studying dry empiric philosophies. But
Srila JIva Goswami, following the previous äcäryas, has inculcated the conclusions of the
scriptures in the six treatises called the Sat-sandarbhas. False devotees who have very
little knowledge of such conclusions fail to achieve pure devotion for want of zeal in
accepting the favorable directions for devotional service given by self-realized devotees."
Cc 1.2.117 purport

"Within the past five hundred years, many erudite scholars and acaryas like Jiva
Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami, Visvanatha Cakravarti, Vallabhacarya, and many other
distinguished scholars even after the time of Lord Caitanya made elaborate
commentaries on the Bhagavatam. And the serious student would do well to attempt to
go through them to better relish the transcendental messages." SB, 1.1.1, Purport

"Pure devotees have prepared many books of knowledge on the basis of authorized
scriptures. Srila Rupa Gosvami and his assistants, under the instructions of Lord Sri
Caitanya Mahaprabhu, have all written various literatures for the guidance of prospective
devotees, and anyone who is very serious about raising himself to the standard of a pure
devotee of the Lord must take advantage of those literatures." SB, 3.7.39, Purport

"If you want to preach the gospel of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, then the personalities who
established, by writing these books, Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Hari-bhakti-vilasa,
Vidagdha-madhava, so many books they have written. So we must go through them,
must try to understand. Then we can understand what is the Caitanya-caritamrta,
Caitanya- bhagavata, Caitanya-mangala, there are so many. Caitanya-candradaya by
Prabodhananda Sarasvati. So many devotees, they have given us so many high
literatures, we should consult." Srila Prabhupada lecture, Nectar of Devotion, Bombay,
1.8.1973

Continued…

6. When Srila Prabhupada preached 'fall' it was a preaching technique according time,
place and circumstance. He did not 'cheat' us, as the devotee above accuses him of
doing. Nor did he 'hide the truth' as he also accused him of doing. He simply made such
adjustments as required and as an acarya he was fully within his right to do so:

"To broadcast the [path] of Krsna consciousness, one has to learn the possibility of
renunciation in terms of country, time and candidate. A candidate for Krsna
consciousness in the Western countries should be taught about the renunciation of
material existence, but one would teach candidates from a country like India in a different
way.The teacher (acarya) has to consider time, candidate and country. He must avoid
the principle of niyamagraha – that is, he should not try to perform the impossible. What
is possible in one country may not be possible in another. The acarya’s duty is to accept
the essence of devotional service. There may be a little change here and there as far as
yukta- vairagya (proper renunciation) is concerned.

...It is not necessary that the rules and regulations followed in India be exactly the same
as those in Europe, America and other Western countries. Simply imitating without effect
is called niyamagraha." CC, 2.23.105, Purport

And as Uttamasloka prabhu states in his book, 'The Realization and Manifestation of
your Eternal Identity'

"I reject completely, any suggestion that Srila Prabhupäda made major mistakes or was
uninformed. Therefore, I believe that his differing statements have to be examined and
harmonized within the context of the time and circumstances with which he was dealing.
This will ensure that they are compatible with the original teachings of the äcäryas."

7. On maya being simply a 'dream' and then we just 'wake up in Goloka where we once
were' idea. Again from US prabhu:

"Srila Prabhupada made many statements about the jivas ‘waking up’ from the material
dream (illusion), but this also does not conflict with the previous acaryas’ teachings, nor
does it directly confirm a previously active lila-based relationship with Krsna. It simply
describes the covering and deluding nature of mäyä’s illusion, as well as a way to
conceptualize spiritual enlightenment."

8. On our origin. That is fully explained in Jaiva Dharma chapter 15 and 16 and
elsewhere. Fully. It's a long section so no repeating it here.

"When Brahman desired the jivas to be manifest, immediately His transcendental jiva-
sakti went into action and produced the innumerable jivas."Jaiva Dharma ch 18.

And Srila Prabhupada concurs:

"The conclusion is that the origin of all life is the bodily effulgence of the Supreme
Personality of Godhead. This is also confirmed in Brahma-samhita: yasya prabha
prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]." SB 4.30.5

But this does NOT mean we are impersonal, as as we all understand, we originally come
from Krsna. This is stated in the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad, 2.2.20,

yathagneh ksudra visphulinga vyuccaranti evam

evasmad atmanah sarvani bhutani vyuccaranti

"Just as innumerable sparks cascade out of a flame, similarly, from Sri Krsna, who is the
Atma, the Universal Soul, the jivas emanate who are His separated parts and parcels."

In conclusion is clearly given by Srila Prabhupada.

"The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is
the eternal abode." SB 3.16.26

9. Were we ever in Goloka? No.

"In Goloka Vrndavana, Sri Balarama manifests unlimited nitya-parsadas, eternal

associates, belonging to the jiva category for the service of Sri Krsna. Similarly, in
Vaikuntha, Lord Sankarsana manifests unlimited nitya-parsadas also of the jiva category
for the service of Sri Narayana. These nitya-parsadas are eternally engaged in serving
their object of worship, the Supreme Godhead, who is absorbed in rasa.

They are eternally situated in their svarupa, remain constantly engrossed in satisfying
their beloved Lordship, and ever possess enthusiasm and affection for the Lord that
never diminishes. They are forever extremely spiritually potent, being imbued with the cit-
sakti of the Lord. They have no connection with maya -- they are even unmindful of her
existence. They are permanent residents of the spiritual world and are very far away from
maya. They are fully absorbed in simply relishing the bliss of devotional service to their
beloved Lord. Selfish material joys and sorrows are totally alien to these eternally
liberated souls. Prema being their life and soul, they do not even know that lamentation,
death or fear actually exist.

"Also, countless, infinitesimal jivas emanate from Karanodakasayi Maha Visnu, lying
within the Causal Ocean, whose glance impregnates the maya-sakti. As these jivas are
the neighbours of maya, they witness her variegatedness. The symptoms of the general
mass of jivas as discussed earlier are also present in these jivas. However, because they
are minuscule in size and situated at the margin, their constitutional nature is to look at
both the material world and the spiritual sky.

Their marginal condition makes them vulnerable because -- up to this point of time -- they
have not been reinforced with cit-bala, the strength of spiritual potency, by the mercy of
the Supreme Lord, their worshipable object. Those amongst them who desire to enjoy
material nature become absorbed in matter and are thus eternally enthralled by her,
while those endeavouring to serve the Divine Worshipable Object, upon receiving His
mercy, are elevated to the spiritual world. Therefore, my son, we are in a most wretched
state. Having forgotten our devotion and service to Sri Krsna, we are held as the captives
of maya, and thus, in lieu of our original transcendental status, we are in this miserable
situation." Jaiva Dharma

And to finish up, this from 'In Vaikuntha Even the Leaves Don't Fall:'
These contradictory instructions on the bondage of the jiva question have caused
devotees to become divided. Some favor the fall position, others argue for the no-fall
position. We have found that the debate cannot be settled strictly on the basis of Srila
Prabhupäda’s books, letters, lectures, and conversations. We end up in a deadlock of
argument and counter-argument, quoting and counter-quoting. A better solution is to go
back up the chain of paramparä and determine which of Prabhupäda’s two statements is
confirmed as the siddhänta and which is to be taken as secondary. Relying on guru,
sastra and sädhu to confirm each other is the way to resolve controversial issues.

Before the time of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, none of our acaryas wrote at length
explaining the jiva’s origin prior to conditioned life. The question of whether the jiva fell
from Vaikuntha or any other place simply did not come up. In Bhagavad-gita (13.20) and
in other places the sastras state that both the material nature and the living entity are
anadi, beginningless, and the acaryas repeated that. They understood that the
relationship between the jiva and material nature is also anadi. Everyone understood that
there can be no prior condition to a beginningless event and so the need for elaboration
was nonexistent.

Our acaryas simply stated that the conditioned existence of the jiva is anadi, without any
beginning. Then they go on to explain devotional service as the answer to the miseries of
conditional existence. In Western culture, philosophy, logic, and in the English language
we have no equivalent word for the concept of anadi; therefore the term is not properly
understood and thus, questions about the jiva’s origin prior to conditioned life arise.

Our predecessor acaryas did not have this problem. While it is a fact that they did not go
beyond anadi to explain the origin of the jiva, they did clearly state that no one—whether
a nitya-siddha or sadhana-siddha—falls from Vaikuntha.
There's not a tinge of maya in the spiritual world. No chance of fall.

"In Goloka Vrndavana, Sri Balarama manifests unlimited nitya-parsadas, eternal

associates, belonging to the jiva category for the service of Sri Krsna. Similarly, in
Vaikuntha, Lord Sankarsana manifests unlimited nitya-parsadas also of the jiva
category for the service of Sri Narayana. These nitya-parsadas are eternally
engaged in serving their object of worship, the Supreme Godhead, who is
absorbed in rasa.

They are eternally situated in their svarupa, remain constantly engrossed in

satisfying their beloved Lordship, and ever possess enthusiasm and affection for
the Lord that never diminishes. They are forever extremely spiritually potent,
being imbued with the cit-sakti of the Lord. They have no connection with maya
-- they are even unmindful of her existence. They are permanent residents of the
spiritual world and are very far away from maya. They are fully absorbed in
simply relishing the bliss of devotional service to their beloved Lord. Selfish
material joys and sorrows are totally alien to these eternally liberated souls.
Prema being their life and soul, they do not even know that lamentation, death or
fear actually exist.
"Also, countless, infinitesimal jivas emanate from Karanodakasayi Maha Visnu,
lying within the Causal Ocean, whose glance impregnates the maya-sakti. As
these jivas are the neighbours of maya, they witness her variegatedness. The
symptoms of the general mass of jivas as discussed earlier are also present in
these jivas. However, because they are minuscule in size and situated at the
margin, their constitutional nature is to look at both the material world and the
spiritual sky.

Their marginal condition makes them vulnerable because -- up to this point of

time -- they have not been reinforced with cit-bala, the strength of spiritual
potency, by the mercy of the Supreme Lord, their worshipable object. Those
amongst them who desire to enjoy material nature become absorbed in matter
and are thus eternally enthralled by her, while those endeavouring to serve the
Divine Worshipable Object, upon receiving His mercy, are elevated to the
spiritual world. Therefore, my son, we are in a most wretched state. Having
forgotten our devotion and service to Sri Krsna, we are held as the captives of
maya, and thus, in lieu of our original transcendental status, we are in this
miserable situation." Jaiva Dharma
Like · Reply · 1 hr

Vraja Vilasa Dasa "This word nitya-siddha is significant. Nitya-siddha and nitya-
baddha. There are two kinds of living entities. Nitya-baddha means ever-
conditioned. Ever-conditioned means those who are in this material world, they
do not know when they came in touch with this material world. Neither they do
know when they will be liberated. They are called nitya-baddha, ever-
conditioned. And similarly, there are nitya-siddhas. Nitya-siddhas means they
never come in contact with this material world, and even they come here for
some business, they do not forget their position. That is nitya-siddha. Try to
understand. There are two kinds of living entities: nitya-siddha, nitya-baddha.
Nitya-baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma down to a
small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddhas. Anyone who is in this
material world -- nitya-baddha. And nitya-siddhas, they belong to the spiritual
world. They never come in contact with this material world, and even they come
for some business under the order of the Supreme Lord, they do not touch these
material qualities They remain always transcendental. As Krsna remains always
transcendental, even though He is in this material world, similarly, Krsna's nitya-
siddha associates, they are also transcendental. They never touch this material
world." Bhagavad-gita 1.13-14 -- London, July 14, 1973
Like · Reply · 1 hr

Vraja Vilasa Dasa And more confirmation:

"In that personal abode of the Lord, the material modes of ignorance and passion
do not prevail, nor is there any of their influence in goodness. There is no
predominance of the influence of time, so what to speak of the illusory, external
energy; it cannot enter that region. Without discrimination, both the demigods
and the demons worship the Lord as devotees." SB, 2.9.10
Here are some relevant excerpts from Srila Prabhupada's purport to that verse.

...In that sky the material qualities, especially the modes of ignorance and
passion, are completely absent. The mode of ignorance influences a living entity
to the habit of lust and hankering, and this means that in the Vaikuntha lokas the
living entities are free from these two things.

As confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita, in the brahma-bhuta stage of life one

becomes free from hankering and lamentation. Therefore the conclusion is that
the inhabitants of the Vaikuntha planets are all brahma-bhuta living entities, as
distinguished from the mundane creatures who are all compact in hankering and
lamentation. When one is not in the modes of ignorance and passion, one is
supposed to be situated in the mode of goodness in the material world.

Goodness in the material world also at times becomes contaminated by touches

of the modes of passion and ignorance. In the Vaikuntha loka, it is unalloyed
goodness only. The whole situation there is one of freedom from the illusory
manifestation of the external energy.

...All living entities there are eternally associated without any break, and the Lord
is the chief and prime entity. In the Agama Puranas also, the transcendental
abode is described as follows: The associated members there are free to go
everywhere within the creation of the Lord, and there is no limit to such creation,
particularly in the region of the three- fourths magnitude. Since the nature of
that region is unlimited, there is no history of such association, nor is there end
of it.

...The whole Vaikuntha existence proclaims that everyone there is a follower of

the Lord. The Lord is the chief leader there, without any competition for
leadership, and the people in general are all followers of the Lord.
Like · Reply · 1 hr

Vraja Vilasa Dasa Here is another key verse from Srimad-bhagavatam which
establishes the same truth, especially the fact that there is no possibility of falling
from the spiritual world:

"O Lord! Therefore in this world, the wise worship your pure form and the pure
form of your devotee, and not the forms made of material gunas, since the
devotees like Narada recognize your form as suddha-sattva, from which arises
Vaikuntha, a place which has no fear of falling and is endowed spiritual bliss." SB,
12.8.46
Like · Reply · 1 hr

Vraja Vilasa Dasa Here are further excerpts from Baladeva Vidyabhusana’s
commentary which are clear and conclusive.
One should never worry that the Supreme Lord would desire to make the jiva
who is dependent on Him fall from His planet, and that the devotee would ever
desire to give up the Lord, since scripture describes their mutual affection for
each other.
...The Lord can never let His devotees fall because smriti says the devotees have
exclusive devotion to Him and the Lord is determined never to give them up, and
because the Lord is without faults like cruelty or miserliness and the devotees
are without fault, having devotion exclusively for the Lord.This is what is said.
The Supreme Lord, an ocean of affection for those who take shelter of Him, true
to His word and having all His desires accomplished, destroying avidya, the
cause of turning away from Him, brings these devotees, His most dear amsas,
close to Him and never gives them up.
The jivas... becoming completely purified by service to the Lord and desiring no
one else, having attained their master, the best friend, the most merciful, the
form of unlimited bliss and knowledge, never desire to leave Him. This is what is
understood from scriptures. Those who are completely surrendered to scripture
must have firm faith in this.

Acyuta, who is served by the intelligent, and who, delivering His devotees from
the mire of suffering, leads them to His eternal abode of knowledge and bliss,
never desires to separate those dear devotees from their deep attachment to Him
for even a second.
Like · Reply · 1 hr · Edited

Vraja Vilasa Dasa In his Bhagavata-sandarbha, Jiva Gosvami gives a detailed

analysis of Vaikuntha and its inhabitants over the course of several sections, ie:
Anucchedas 63 - 80. Beginning with Anuccheda 63, Jiva Gosvami first quotes
Srimad-bhagavatam:

The Lord, gratified by his worship, showed Brahma Maha-vaikuntha, to which

nothing is superior, which is free of suffering, confusion and fear of offenses and
which is praised by the devatas who constantly see the self. SB, 2.9.9

Here is Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura’s commentary on that verse:

The Lord showed Brahma Maha-vaikuntha to which nothing is superior, which is

absolutely free of suffering. The klesas are avidya ’smita-raga-dvesabhinivesah:
ignorance, ego, attachment, hatred and clinging to life. (Yoga-sutras 2.3) There is
no intense mental confusion from not seeing the Lord. It is free of fear of offenses
in serving the Lord. It is praised by Indra and others. Svadrstavadbhih indicates
that these persons have continual vision of the self. This negates the idea that
Indra and others are purely material.

In Anuccheda 65 Jiva Gosvami states, “There is no unsteadiness or falling in the

spiritual world.”

In Anuccheda 66 he states, “Vaikuntha is beyond the material world, which the

devotee never leaves.”

Extensive supporting references and analyses follow each of these initial

statements. Nowhere in any of his sandarbhas does Jiva Gosvami ever mention
anything about unlimited jivas falling from Krsna’s lila to populate the material
universes, or that such a possibility even exists. Quite the opposite, as the above
references prove conclusively.
Like · Reply · 1 hr

Vraja Vilasa Dasa Stephen Beaney-bhusaya Hare Krsna prabhu, well you can only
speak for yourself, no? We can't presume to know another's adhikara of level of
advancement. The point is that the spiritual world is completely free form the
modes and there is no chance of falling or getting in any sort of maya.
Like · Reply · 1 hr

Vraja Vilasa Dasa Srila Prabhupada simply made the above statement regarding
Vaikuntha and lust because that was required for that particular individual at
that point in time. He was not establishing siddhanta right then and there. It was
his preaching stategy, that's all. Srila Prabhupada himself states in Krsna Book,
"Vrndavana is transcendental to all other places and is free of lust and greed." KB
13: The Stealing of the Boys and Calves by Brahma.

"Similarly, although the rasa dance and Lord Krsna's association with the gopis
appear like the ordinary mixing of young boys and girls, the quality is completely
different. The difference is appreciated by great Vaisnavas because they can
understand the difference between love of Krsna and lust." KB 29: The Rasa
Dance: Introduction
Like · Reply · 1 hr

Vraja Vilasa Dasa I also could not find that exact ref in Krsna Book mentioned by
Acyutananda prabhu. If you do, let me know.
Like · Reply · 1 hr

Vraja Vilasa Dasa Mother Niscala was simply joking back there. She understands
completely we can never fall from spiritual world.
Like · Reply · 57 mins

Vraja Vilasa Dasa Stephen Beaney-bhusaya Also prabhu, I don't understand your
point here: "Stupidity may not qualify us for delusions of grandeur?"
Like · Reply · 56 mins

Vraja Vilasa Dasa Stephen Beaney-bhusaya Yes, that is the definition of marginal.
But we were never yet in the spiritual world and never 'fell' from there. All the
acaryas conclude on this. And as seen above, there is absolutely not a tiny trace
of maya or 'fear of falling' there. That is a huge misconception - that we were in
Goloka, decided to compete with Krsna, then 'fell.' It's wrong. It is not tattva, not
our siddhanta. Every single acarya concurs with this point. Srila Prabhupada
himself gives the conclusion. A 'conclusion' means that it is the final word on any
topic:

"The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet,
for it is the eternal abode." SB 3.16.26
Like · Reply · 51 mins
Vraja Vilasa Dasa On our origin. That is fully explained in Jaiva Dharma chapter
15 and 16 and elsewhere. Fully. It's a long section so no repeating it here.

"When Brahman desired the jivas to be manifest, immediately His transcendental

jiva-sakti went into action and produced the innumerable jivas."Jaiva Dharma ch
18.

And Srila Prabhupada concurs:

"The conclusion is that the origin of all life is the bodily effulgence of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is also confirmed in Brahma-samhita:
yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]." SB 4.30.5

But this does NOT mean we are impersonal, as as we all understand, we

originally come from Krsna. This is stated in the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad,
2.2.20,

yathagneh ksudra visphulinga vyuccaranti evam

evasmad atmanah sarvani bhutani vyuccaranti

"Just as innumerable sparks cascade out of a flame, similarly, from Sri Krsna, who
is the Atma, the Universal Soul, the jivas emanate who are His separated parts
and parcels."
Like · Reply · 49 mins

Vraja Vilasa Dasa In Krsna Book, Srila Prabhupada also confirms the truth of a
completely new beginning:

"The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krsna consciousness, are
immediately transferred to the universe where Krsna is appearing. In that
universe the devotees get their FIRST opportunity to associate with Krsna
personally and directly." KB, Chapter 28, 6th paragraph

It's very clear.