Debt Management

Chat Transcript
April 10, 2006

About Dr. Taffy Wagner – Our Christian Ladies Connect Financial Management
Coach, 2006

Eric Wagner provided educational consulting and career

planning for families in the 1990s. When sought out by his
peers for advice, he has provided peer-to-peer counseling
regarding finances, employment and relationships. Eric has
been a member of the American Association of Christian
Counselors since 1998.

Taffy Wagner worked with Eric providing educational

consulting and career planning for families in 1995. She has
been doing one-on-one lay counseling since 1997. She has
been a member of the American Association of Christian
Counselors since 1998. Taffy is an ordained minister. She holds a Doctorate of
Ministry in Biblical Counseling, Master’s degree in Human Resource Management,
Bachelor’s degree in Business Admin/Management, Associates in Paralegal Studies
and an Associates in Administration.

Eric and Taffy believe in helping people find solutions to the challenges they face in
life. Together, they have seen how God has moved in their lives and others that they
have helped.

Journey to Wholeness is an organization that is designed to advise and mentor

individuals, couples and families in the areas of communication, marriage, finances,
relationships, divorce, pregnancy, parenting and health. Eric and Taffy will help you
discern how to begin cleaning up the distractions in your life.

http://www.journeytowholeness.net

09:50:09 Dee enters this room

10:17:32 Dee exits from this room
10:17:42 Dee enters this room
10:17:43 >[Dee] Welcome to our chat. Please obey the net etiquette while
chatting: try to be pleasant and polite.
10:56:46 taffy enters this room
10:59:43 [Dee] HI, Taffy!
10:59:51 [Dee] It's me, Demetria
11:00:01 [Dee] hold on a sec...I gotta get my glasses (can't see very well)
11:00:57 [taffy] Good Morning, I had to get the kids last bit of breakfast
11:01:41 [Dee] Ok, I'm Back
11:02:00 [Dee] So, it's 10 your time...
11:02:07 [Dee] Are you on Mountain?
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11:02:09 [taffy] Good, I want to go ahead and open in prayer. We can catch
everyone as they come in.
11:02:15 [taffy] I am on Mountain time.
11:02:24 [Dee] ok.
11:02:29 [Dee] Yes, let's go ahead and start
11:02:37 [taffy] Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for this opportunity to come
11:03:03 [taffy] before you and praise your name. Father we ask that we be not
transformed to this world but transformed
11:03:18 [taffy] the renewing of our mind, that you may prove what is good,
acceptable and perfect will of God. Heavenly Father
11:03:32 [taffy] e ask for you guidance and teaching this morning. That the ladies
will hear you and not me.
11:03:53 [Dee] yes Lord
11:04:01 [taffy] Thank you Lord for that we can be out of debt. It is not your will
for us to be in debt but to
11:04:15 [taffy] have abundance and give abundantly. We ask you to help us to
help each
11:04:30 [taffy] other. Thank you Lord for not leaving us or forsaking us when we
turned our back on. Thank
11:04:45 [taffy] you for bringing us back. Lord we thank you for everyone that will
be attending as well
11:05:15 [taffy] as us in the room. Thank you for your blessings that we have
received, those that are on the way. Have your way today Lord. All these
things we ask in your darling son Jesus name, Amen.
11:05:22 [Dee] Amen!
11:05:31 [taffy] Okay, I could pray, praise and thank him forever. Amen.
11:05:48 [Dee] :-)
11:06:05 [taffy] I am sitting at my computer, but there were days when I would
go to the mail box and see the mounds of bills.
11:06:20 [Dee] i can relate
11:06:22 [taffy] I would come home and put them on the table. Do you see this
happening with yourself or has happened?
11:06:41 [Dee] most definitely
11:06:46 [Dee] we're still going through it as a family
11:06:53 [taffy] When you are in that place-- what effect does it have on you?
11:07:19 [Dee] it makes me feel...
11:07:19 [taffy] It does affect your family, destroys marriages, ends friendships.
11:07:29 [Dee] not in control, paranoid
11:07:34 [taffy] What does being in debt mean to you?
11:08:04 [Dee] being imprisoned, in a box
11:08:13 [Dee] seems to be no way out sometimes
11:08:24 [taffy] For me - it meant depression, fear and yes imprisoned. No way
out.
11:09:04 [taffy] If you can see yourself with the bills on the table, what would be
the first step. Like a ladder
11:09:37 [taffy] What is the first step to managing your debt?
11:09:54 [Dee] I would say, knowing what you owe
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11:10:27 [taffy] Work with me on this -- change your vision of yourself. See
yourself paying the bills off and not having debt.
11:11:09 [taffy] Have you ever thought you could be out of debt? My husband did
not and we changed his vision.
11:11:22 [taffy] Then definitely knowing what you owe
11:11:23 zech122 enters this room
11:11:41 [Dee] Hello...
11:11:52 [taffy] Good morning Zech
11:12:06 [taffy] We are discussing what the first step would be to managing your
debt.
11:12:33 [zech122] Hi
11:12:48 [Dee] I can invision myself without debt
11:12:59 [Dee] but it's still hard for me to envision the steps I need to take to get
there
11:13:14 [taffy] Wonderful - continue to keep the vision because that is what will
propel you.
11:13:28 [taffy] Take some paper and let's build your vision to get you out of
debt.
11:13:34 [Dee] ok
11:14:19 [taffy] At the top is Financial Freedom
11:14:42 [taffy] At the bottom is debt
11:15:00 [taffy] In order to pay the debt off you have to manage the money. Let's
say for example
11:15:21 [taffy] your first bill is Telephone and it is $200.00 a month. Can you
11:15:30 [taffy] change it to a different company and lower it significantly.
11:16:43 [taffy] The money that you would save goes towards another bill.
11:17:02 [taffy] For example, our phone bills were $200 a month with Qwest and
we switched over
11:17:03 [Dee] yes, we had to do that with our phone bill too (it saves us almost
$100/month to use voice over ip)
11:17:13 [Dee] with Lingo
11:17:14 [taffy] to Comcast and now that bill is $60.00 a month including long
distance.
11:17:36 [taffy] Same thing with Long Distance if you like to talk long distance
and that bill
11:17:48 [taffy] is outrageous then switch over to calling cards for a period of
time.
11:17:54 [Dee] that is a really good deal
11:18:22 [taffy] Right. So same thing with internet service we switched from
Sprint which was $49.95 a month
11:18:33 [taffy] and bad service to Comcast which was $19.95 for the first 6
months
11:18:54 [taffy] and then back to $49.95. So now I just saved $180.00 in six
months.
11:19:15 [taffy] Tell me what your ladder looks like. Because that extra $180 and
$140 that we just saved can go to

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11:19:25 [taffy] a credit card if we had one. Now it goes to an additional car
payment.
11:20:18 [Dee] we should be climbing a little higher up the ladder
11:20:44 [taffy] We should climb each time. Know realistically what the steps are.
So definitely
11:21:18 [taffy] knowing what you owe first. Then re-evaluating your bills
11:21:34 [taffy] Is there a different way to pay for the same service but less
money.
11:21:51 [taffy] Right before Debt what is your step?
11:22:19 [taffy] What bill? Trust me-- I want to put this out - making more money
is not
11:22:33 [taffy] going to get you out of debt if you do not know how to manage
your money. Most
11:22:44 [taffy] people spend the additional money that they make.
11:23:03 [Dee] that's true
11:23:20 [taffy] Here is what my ladder looks like - bottom step is debt
11:23:32 [taffy] Next step - knowing what you owe - order credit report (1) report
11:23:37 [taffy] not all of them.
11:23:55 [taffy] Next step would be prioritizing the debt.
11:24:04 [Dee] which one should we order?
11:24:11 [taffy] Here is where I differ a little bit from other experts. It does not
matter which one
11:24:26 [taffy] you order first because you will order the other 2 just in 4 month
increments.
11:24:54 [taffy] Whatever the smallest bill is - let's say that it is $400.00 total.
Pay it off first. Why
11:25:00 [Dee] ok
11:25:05 [taffy] because some people need to be encouraged to know that they
can pay the bills off.
11:25:23 [taffy] Does that make sense? People in debt are already frustrated and
discouraged.
11:25:28 [taffy] They need encouragement.
11:25:54 [Dee] yes, i can understand that. It does feel good to
11:26:01 [Dee] pay off the smallest ones first
11:26:07 [Dee] so we feel like we are getting somewhere
11:26:12 [taffy] Then go to the bill with the highest interest rate and begin paying
it off.
11:27:00 [taffy] The money that you were paying monthly on that small bill, now
put it towards the big bill and make additional payments.
11:27:25 [taffy] Every little bit goes a long way
11:27:49 [taffy] If you choose to pay off all the smallest ones first, continue to roll
those payments to the other bills.
11:28:15 [taffy] Managing and getting out of debt takes Discipline and Dedication.
11:28:28 [taffy] Make a commitment to yourself and family to make the vision of
getting out of debt
11:28:31 [taffy] reality.

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11:28:48 [taffy] Let me share a couple of scriptures with you ladies: Proverbs 22:7
says,
11:28:58 [taffy] The rich rules over the poor and the borrower is servant to the
lender.
11:29:18 [taffy] Psalm 37:21 says The wicked borrows and does not pay back, but
the righteous is gracious and gives.
11:29:35 [taffy] We need to be in the position to give as God tells us to, when he
tells us to and to whom. Amen.
11:29:43 [taffy] Debt keeps you from being a blessing to yourself and others.
11:30:36 [taffy] How is the ladder looking now?
11:31:58 [Dee] getting closer :-)
11:32:09 [taffy] Okay good. How about you Zech???
11:32:46 [taffy] Let's say your first ladder only pertained to Credit Cards and
Student Loans. Once this is completed
11:32:59 [taffy] you could do a new ladder that pertains to paying off your
automobiles.
11:33:24 [taffy] Do it the same way the Goal at the top is no car payments. Do
the steps
11:33:26 [Dee] oh okay
11:33:33 [Dee] So you can do a separate ladder for each
11:33:35 [Dee] bill you owe
11:33:40 [taffy] it would take to get you there. When you are managing your
money be very realistic.
11:33:56 [Dee] I was thinking of it as one big unit...but it's probably easier to
break it down
11:33:57 [taffy] Yes you can for each bill you owe.
11:34:15 [taffy] Keep these sheets because it will remind you how you did the first
one.
11:34:28 [taffy] You can do the same thing - let's say for example I made a ladder
of the progress
11:34:44 [taffy] that I wanted to accomplish with my twins for reading. So I made
a ladder of
11:34:56 [taffy] what I thought would realistically help me to accomplish their
progress.
11:35:34 [taffy] If you break it down, you will understand it better and be able to
see clearly what you need to do.
11:36:11 [Dee] that makes sense
11:36:41 [taffy] This process can be used for any area in your life not just debt.
11:37:23 [taffy] Does this help you with a plan to manage your debt?
11:37:58 [Dee] yes, it does
11:38:08 [Dee] I have never visualized it quite this way before
11:38:19 [Dee] It's nice to have the ladder start with the goal at top
11:38:23 [Dee] as opposed to the debt at top
11:38:45 [Dee] Because teh way I've been doing it is to place what I owe at the
top of my paper and work downward from there, but it's just so depressing

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11:39:14 [taffy] This is called Vision Mapping which God showed me recently. I
have always been a visual person. I did this without even knowing but now to
be
11:39:41 mom2boyz enters this room
11:39:57 [taffy] able to apply it to every area has gotten me excited. Put the Goal
at the top and you will be excited looking at what you are going to accomplish.
If you keep your VISION at the forefront of your mind, the natural has to line
up.
11:40:15 [taffy] So as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. Come on.
11:40:56 [Dee] HI, mom2boyz
11:41:07 [taffy] You could do this for your business - what is the overall Goal.
Hello Mom2boyz jump right in.
11:41:14 [mom2boyz] HI
11:41:21 [Dee] Amen, Taffy
11:41:25 [mom2boyz] sorry I am late
11:41:45 [taffy] Let me offer you ladies something. It's okay Mom -
11:41:53 [Dee] that's ok...we should have a chat transcript available soon
11:42:07 [taffy] For each of you ladies in the room, I am willing to help you at no
cost - if you have my book Debt Dilemma,
11:42:22 [taffy] I will look at your credit report and map out a game plan for you
as lnog
11:42:35 [taffy] long as you sign our questionnaire and agreement. If you do not
have the book
11:42:55 [taffy] you can get it at my website http://www.paidoff.net. It is
$5.95. I want you ladies
11:43:07 [taffy] to be debt free and blessing other peoples socks off. Amen.
11:43:31 [Dee] What a blessing!
11:43:45 [Dee] I know many of us are here because we need this kind of help...
11:43:45 [taffy] My husband and I make recommendations based on the
information you provide. Understand
11:44:01 [taffy] the questionnaire does ask you about your financials but that is it.
We need to
11:44:06 [taffy] help you see what you can do.
11:44:41 [Dee] How can we obtain our credit report?
11:45:01 [taffy] Debt is binding, depressing and breaking up households. We need
to equip you to teach your children about managing money now.
11:45:11 [taffy] To obtain your credit report, you can go to
http://www.annualcreditreport.com or you
11:45:30 [mom2boyz] That is what I am trying to do with my son.
11:45:32 [taffy] can go online to each agency Equifax, Experian or TransUnion and
order from them specifically.
11:45:49 [taffy] I know you can also order from http://www.myfico.com if you
want your FICO score but that will cost you
11:46:08 [taffy] it is not free. I recommend writing to the agency one at a time
that way we can see progress.
11:46:30 [Dee] mom2boyz, are you LaTara?

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11:46:37 [taffy] If you write to Equifax, they will give you your FICO score for
$14.95, if you are not interested in the score unless you already know it,
11:46:42 [taffy] then it is free.
11:46:42 [mom2boyz] yes
11:46:56 [Dee] Ok. :-)
11:47:07 [Dee] Yes, your son is at an age where this would be great info for him
11:47:36 [Dee] Taffy, I will definitely check out the annualcreditreport.com
11:47:42 [taffy] I recently taught a group of young ladies that were in the 9th
grade through 12th grade about managing money.
11:47:57 [taffy] We had a wonderful time because they had little knowledge of
managing money.
11:48:13 [mom2boyz] I don't know if you talked about this Taffy, but what do
you think Robert Kiyosaki
11:48:21 [Dee] Those girls are going to be far ahead of the game, and hopefully
won't make the same mistakes many of us adults have regarding credit cards
11:48:35 [mom2boyz] that is true
11:48:49 [taffy] I do think he is somewhat unrealistic. Everyone cannot buy and
sell real estate.
11:49:04 [mom2boyz] ok
11:49:08 [taffy] What are your thoughts?
11:49:41 [mom2boyz] i got the book for teens for my son and he gave some good
financial advice
11:50:05 [Dee] Is he all abot real estate? (I had no clue who he was)
11:50:30 [taffy] Let me share what I did with the young ladies - God showed me
to do this about two months prior. I took some monopoly money which was
their income.
11:51:13 [taffy] Then I had a mortgage bill, car, car insurance, utilities, telephone
(2 of these), groceries, student expenses and they had to save 200.00. I made
the scenario telling them what their income was and told them to pay all the
bills.
11:51:41 [taffy] They had to put 200 in savings. They were given 3280 and their
bills totaled over 4,000. They did this as a group. It was very interesting
11:52:05 [taffy] talking with them to see why they paid some things and not
others. They grasped it though from this project we did.
11:52:17 [mom2boyz] sounds good
11:52:19 [taffy] I did not even include credit cards but explained to them that
their parents have to pay credit card
11:52:33 [taffy] bills on top of this. They are making sacrifices for them that they
did not even know about.
11:52:46 [taffy] So if they were working, they should want to help out with their
expenses.
11:53:08 [taffy] You should have seen these young ladies, they were cutting out
this and not paying for that. Then realized they needed this versus that.
11:53:24 [Dee] that is such a realistic lesson for them
11:53:30 [taffy] Same decisions that we make for whatever reason. I showed
them how to budget based on if they were working now.
11:53:36 [mom2boyz] yes it is

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11:54:13 [Dee] Teenagers often times don't realize the sacrifices parents make for
them
11:54:18 [taffy] This is more than some of them had ever gotten. You can do this
with your children and should.
11:54:24 [Dee] and sometimes expect money to grown on parents as if parents
are trees...
11:54:28 [taffy] Teach them how to vision map.
11:54:59 [Dee] Is vision mapping explained more in your book also?
11:55:10 [taffy] Children will repeat your pattern without your telling them
anything.
11:55:26 [mom2boyz] yes they will
11:55:40 [mom2boyz] my son is so ready to spend spend spend...he gets that
from me
11:55:54 [taffy] It is in there a different way. I recommend reading The Richest
Man who ever lived by Steven K. Scott which is about King Solomon. Based on
the whole chapter of Proverbs.
11:55:59 [taffy] It is wonderful.
11:56:14 [taffy] Vision mapping in my book talks about how I put a sheet of paper
on the refrigerator
11:56:26 [taffy] and had placed each bill on there along with scriptures. Placed
them at
11:56:48 [taffy] Came to Jesus each morning committing our debt to him and
relying on him
11:56:58 [taffy] to bless the works of our hands to get us out of debt.
11:57:28 [Dee] sounds good, Taffy. I will be purchasing your book soon.
11:58:09 [taffy] The offer that I made earlier will also be good for anyone that
reads the transcript.
11:58:22 [taffy] There are people in debt and embarrassed to say I need help. I
know, I was there.
11:58:29 [mom2boyz] yeah i think i will pick it up this week
11:58:36 [Dee] Well, we need all the help we can get! Praise God for you, Taffy.
11:59:19 [taffy] I am thankful that God taught us money management and is
using us to help people.
11:59:32 [taffy] We are willing vessels. Think how many people you ladies will be
able to help.
11:59:50 [taffy] When I begin working with you I will send you back a vision map
ladder template that you can use. Will that help -
12:00:30 [Dee] Definitely. I was just going to ask you about the vision map ladder,
and if there was a picture of it in your book
12:00:43 [Dee] This will help us out greatly.
12:00:55 [taffy] There is not. My book came out last year -- I began working on
this ladder in the last week.
12:01:08 [taffy] You will be getting it fresh off of my tablet. I am soooo excited
about doing this.
12:01:17 [Dee] Oh! Okay...yes, we can use a tmepalte, then.
12:01:27 [Dee] Thankyou!

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12:01:54 [taffy] You ladies are soooo welcome. If you have any questions, you can
email me at taffy@paidoff.net .
12:02:05 [Dee] Well...it's the top of the hour...and I've got to get to a dentail
appointment...
12:02:17 [taffy] Are there any questions?
12:02:28 [Dee] Thank you, Taffy for providing this God-inspired workshop for us
12:02:32 [taffy] Father, thank you for giving us the vision of being out of debt and
blessing others. Give us
12:02:40 [mom2boyz] i came in late, so i will be sure to read the transcripts
12:02:48 [Dee] (that was "dental", not dentail)
12:03:03 [taffy] your traveling mercies as we go throughout the day. Thank you
for Your Word and giving us understanding.
12:03:15 [Dee] Thank you for coming, LaTara! As always, your presence is
appeciated :-)
12:03:32 [taffy] Thank you for blessing us. Thank you everyone for coming.
12:03:42 [taffy] I will try to do it again at the end of the month.
12:03:50 [taffy] Blessings and Peace
12:03:53 [mom2boyz] good
12:03:58 [Dee] That's a plan! I look forward to the next one.
12:04:04 [Dee] God bless, everyone! Talk to you later
12:04:12 [mom2boyz] Demetria you know i try to supprt your ministry as best i
can
12:04:16 [mom2boyz] be blessed all
12:04:23 [Dee] :-) Thanks, LaTara.
12:04:29 [Dee] Bye, ladies
12:04:34 [mom2boyz] i am off tot he movies with the kids
12:04:37 [taffy] Bye ladies.
12:04:43 [mom2boyz] bye

Demetria Zinga is the founder of Christian Ladies Connect

and Christian Ladies Talk Radio, a ministerial ezine and
online radio podcast for Christian women. She has a passion to
help other women in their spiritual journeys and to encourage
women globally to include God in all aspects of their lives.
Also the founder of Web Success Coach, a digital media
consulting company,she is available for digital media & design
consultation, and internet business coaching.

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