so

and we are live good morning and welcome

to the economic crime committee of the

police authority board

meeting of 16 november 2020. i can

confirm that we're live and the

committee is correct

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chairman thank you tan clark

and if i could just add my welcome to

any members of the public who may be

watching on

the live youtube youtube stream or

afterwards and indeed

members of the committee and

officers just before we dive into

the agenda i just wanted to note and

congratulate

uh emmer adam on her uh appointment uh

as vice president of cyber poll

and with that tan clerk

thank you chairman the first item of

business today is apologies and we've

received apologies from andrew lenton

thank you 10 glock are there any members

declarations under the code of conduct

with respect to items on the agenda

not aware of any thank you 10 clock

we move to the minutes to agree the

minutes of the

public minutes and non-public summary of

the meeting held on 12 october

2020. chairman uh thank you so any

comments on

those are fairly short and

straightforward or any matters arising

from those i see now thank you tan clark

thank you chairman and then we move to

questions on matters relating to the

work of the committee

thank you i see uh deputy woodhouse i

think has one

this is

um chairman you um i gave an update in

public about the national lead force

i wondered if you could update us on

what um what you told the world

please uh yes thank you

uh deputy woodhouse and actually i have

um

noted uh with the tan clark that

uh like uh at police authority board we

will do a verb

the chair of jazz chairs verbal update

uh followed by a force

uh level update in both public and

non-public on

uh perhaps key issues that are not

covered

uh elsewhere uh on on the agenda

um but yes you know you are correct um i

gave an update

on uh national uh lead force and things

that

um as chair have been involved in

just in brief those are

particularly related to some greater

external engagement

on behalf of the police authority but

presented at

a association of police and crime

commissioners

and west midlands fraud forum back in uh

mid november around the role of the

force

as national lead force indeed on action

fraud

that did coincide with a

um by west midlands of a report that

they've done in conjunction

with birmingham university which sought

to comment on successes strategies and

shortfalls around

economic crime and indeed uh

that received coverage in the times uh

around um fraud and in particular some

of the

uh past criticism around action

uh fraud one of the things that uh

i'm working with on the force uh around

that going forward is how we

um engage with uh west midlands around

many

many of the recommendations that come

forward not least that many of those

recommendations that have been made the

force is making some

uh significant progress on and it's

making sure that there is the

appropriate uh public narrative

around that a couple of just very brief

items um

the homework is doing a review around

the strategic policing requirement

and the force uh and indeed authority

are looking to ensure that

fraud is more pro more fully included in

the strategic policing requirement

rather than simply a passing reference

under the serious

and organized crime strand and this is

about

seeking to ensure that fraud goes up

the priority list of pccs

and indeed chief chief constables

and we're also looking at ways that

those forces can be more

closely held to account for the

performance

on fraud and that's really around

ensuring if

fraud does get the right focus um both

in terms of tackling a bit

but also hopefully skills and uh

resources

um looking forward uh some to december

the force uh

and myself uh will be engaging with

um uh pccs uh through an event

um coordinated by the apcc

uh and coinciding with the uh

first day in the force for uh system

commissioner angie mclaren

who is joining us from police scotland

to be
uh assistant commissioner for fraud and

cyber

much much further forward um we're also

looking at

how we might participate in the all

parliamentary group

uh on fraud that'd be sometime next year

probably may

um and the other core piece of work

which i will refer to probably a couple

of times during this

meeting is the production

by the force of a strategic

communication and engagement plan

which is really around how it positions

itself with all stakeholders

uh around tackling uh fraud

and it is to seek to make the force more

uh

proactive around that and indeed visibly

proactive around that

uh rather than perhaps being thought of

as a bit

uh reactive around its um communications

uh piece um and as part of that in terms

of may wish to

comment on this in his verbal update is

we've done a soft launch of the national

leads
operations room uh we'll be looking to

harder launch that in due course

i think that's a very good way of the

force uh using that as a focal point to

sell the messaging

around fraud and do the work the force

does

um i'll pause there and just take any

questions on that if there are any

otherwise i'll ask clinton just to give

a brief

public update

clinton

thank you chairman yeah so good morning

um so just give a little quicker

or coverage and sensibilities going on

in the economic crime

world economic crime and director has

been

busy over the last quarter um responding

to the kovid

crisis and the fraud related crime

that's come as a result for that

um what we're seeing now is about one

less than one percent of um all fraud

related crime is related to covid

at the moment so we have seen a decrease

um

during that period we saw a vast array

of predominantly online type shopping

um crimes um ppe equipment false kits

um false equipment um paying for good

sales you ultimately never arrived

there's a lot of people traveling you

know using buying caravans and

pets and all sorts of things which

ultimately didn't exist so we saw a real

sort of spike

uh within that uh arena during the sort

of cove into periods

around the sort of lockdown time um we

have also um run the operation uh opera

romance campaign um in the last few

weeks

which is in relation to targeting people

that commit those type of crime

with really vulnerable victims and that

ran for a two-week period

and to seeing some really really good

results and it wasn't my campaign so

much around the

uh normal campaigns where you would see

where obviously ultimately arrested in

arrests and

warrants this was more around raising

awareness and education and i'm just

trying to stop

the offending at source and as i'm sure

you'll appreciate with those that commit

romance fraud a lot of it occurs at

source from abroad

one of the things we're really excited

about is a new concept which is setting

up the lead force operations room which

the chairman

just alluded to this is a new uh

unit that's kind of at the heart of our

business if you like so it's kind of

sets the daily rhythm for what we do um

it's supported by all of the teams and

departments that operate within

the commands and has obviously a kind of

overview nationally

what's going with on with economic crime

and one of the things that they are sort

of working on

in the majority at the moment is around

the pursue element so it launched as

the chairman discussed with a very short

campaign which involved a number of

arrests and warrants

predominantly has been leading the

campaign so there's something called

operational tello for those that don't

know

their government's step up to fraud

and the response from law enforcement to

that and they will be launching all of

the campaigns
that come forward now not only will we

be doing the campaigns that take place

under otello

but we will be setting a kind of monthly

rhythm if you like in terms of

responding to certain crime types

and to really get it on the radar and

make the public aware

so it's content that we are really

excited about it's got more investment

to place in it we've

still got a number of vacant posts

within it um

but as i said launched probably about

three or four weeks ago and i think

we've got some great hopes

for that and we will be doing a kind of

bit of a bigger launch across the

country in amongst uh law enforcement

again the chairman's already alluded to

the policing events one of the things

that we're really keen

to do um in the sort of next financial

year is to really

get forces to have a really deep

understanding of

what kind of you know what count is what

victims are facing in terms of economic

crime and the impacts of it

i think it's fair to say um for those of

us in policing that

forces have had some real significant

challenges and times of austerity

and as a result i've had to i think had

to pick their battles to some extent but

we really do need to put

fraud on the agenda and actually getting

police and crime commissioners kind of

turning the lens a little bit inwards on

the counters

now and actually starting to actually

recognize the vulnerabilities that sit

within

those evicted of cohort victims that sit

with it behind frauds

and the links that there is to county

lines and to gang-related

criminals so that's a piece of work that

we will be running throughout the whole

of december

into january we will be running two

events across the

pccs that's a really really important

one about letting them

see what is being disseminated out to

their police forces

but also what the outcomes of those

disseminations are because i think once

people have got kind of sight of that

they'll have a sort of deeper

understanding of

of the vast scale of the problem and the

effort that's been currently closed into

it

and likewise those events will go out

across policing as well across to all

the uh police force and the regional

crime units but we're also going to look

at trying to

put the offer in around the economic

crime academy

which obviously operates from the city

of london police again really trying to

try to

help forces to build capability across

policing and actually really get people

up skilled in understanding economic

crime it's quite a specific compared to

kind of your generic

crime types we also have the

reprocurement

of the action fraud systems ongoing

that's been led by chief superintendent

becky riggs

that's moved through the soft marketing

stage now and starting to narrow down

some of the contenders that we're

looking to bid
for that process and a business case

will go early next year

to the home office around that that's a

program that's

vast in size but has been very very

driven

at pace and by becky and we will hope to

see more progression

soon we also have the um spending

review which obviously are the bids that

we've put into the home office

to improve the capability and capacity

across policing and again we'll be

waiting for the outcomes of that

and we weren't probably here until about

december i think we do have to be

mindful

of the economic climate at the moment in

terms of obviously what happens with

covid

um but we look um to see what

that brings us towards december and

again as the chairman's alluded to

there's a piece of work that's going on

at the moment around our stakeholder

engagement

um we are really really keen as a force

to

really step things up now and actually

really get engaging with as many people

as we possibly can to really

raise the profile of fraud both in

parliament both in the public

um and both within the industry because

i think it's really really important

but the vast and vast huge amount of um

crime a third of all crime now is

economic crime and you know really needs

a tough response to it

thank you chairman thank you commander

um debbie woodhouse good question

um i've actually got a couple of which i

apologize as i'm very new to all of this

um the first one is you mentioned your

engagement plan

um and your um communication plan

basically when when will that

actually be due and when will we will

that be

presented to us or will that go straight

live and the second thing is how much

assistance

given your figure of a third of all

crime is now economic crime do we get

from the banks

and from um organizations

who the thing that i've been thinking

about while you were speaking is

if if you've got people selling ppe from

a caravan

they must have a bank account and once

one person has been defrauded there must

be

a way that we can link into the banks

and have these accounts watched not

necessarily closed

but so that you have the opportunity to

catch the perpetrators and i

i have a real bug bearer at the moment

that the banks are only giving all of

this lip service

so um there's a slight rant but also a

question about the engagement plan

uh thank you uh daphne woodhouse and

just before

the commander uh answers i have to say

on the engagement plan this is something

i've been pushing

from the police authority side uh and as

chair

um for two to three months uh it is a

in my mind uh a really really important

uh item is coming through slower than i

would like

and indeed i was promised to draft last

week and have not received a draft

but when that is produced

we will certainly be sharing it both

this committee and

the main police authority

main police authority board uh i think

the other thing just to comment on that

is that that seeks to be a plan

that is both a force plan but one that

the authority

and indeed uh corporation are

part of because i want to use um

the the corporation uh stage one for the

best term to be promoting the work that

the force um does as national lead force

included in that is something i raised

up politics and resources the

other day which is that the innovation

and growth

strategy contains some really good work

nationally and indeed internationally

um but it i feel that it needs a uh

if you like a policing strand to support

the force around

fraud and i think that was accepted uh

by pnr so we're also

seeking for the force to engage with

innovation and growth around that so it

is

multi-faceted but from my perspective it

is critical

uh for the force and is also critical

this is joined up with the corporation

and uh authority around that

um clinton sorry do you want to pick up

those points

as well noting uh what i've said and

noting the importance and

peace at which i hope we're now going to

pick up this plan

yeah i think thank you chairman so yes

firstly just in relation to the

engagement

plan um there's my understanding that

the director of communications has

already written that and that sits with

the

um commissioner for the city of london

at the moment for review

um once uh that's been agreed by the

chief officer team that will go through

the governance here through our smb

and then obviously we'll be open to to

sharing i think

um i think it's pretty fair to say that

the commissioner does know this is a

piece of work that

um the chairman and the police authority

are keen to see

um and um from what i've heard last week

so he was going at pace in order to try

and put it in that position where we can

actually
get a degree and get it circulated it's

a really key piece of work

um for all of us because i think we we

we

all recognize that we can always do more

um and we are really keen to do more

and obviously this engagement plan will

hopefully identify that one of the other

pieces of work that we are looking to do

as well on top of this is once we've

reviewed that document

is to go for an independent review

internally to look at how we engage what

methods we're using and in what ways

we're doing and who

what audiences are we doing it with and

that's not to say that we don't um

trust our own teams to do it it's just

it's always healthy to have a separate

review and independent review and that's

something else that will take

place in relation to the second part of

your

question in relation to the what are we

doing

with banks we have a really really good

relationship

um with banks in the city of london and

specifically one of our teams dcpcu is

funded by uk

finance we have a very close

relationship likewise with the

um introduction of the national economic

crime center

banks are heavily involved with that

which obviously looks kind of leads

against the response against

um fraud against the whole system but

there's a number of pieces of work that

we

are doing not only do we obviously have

the nfib system in terms of the

intelligence system

that's obviously looking to link crimes

and bank accounts and

kind of identify lines of inquiry so

there's a lot of work that goes on

around that with the banks

we're also doing some a couple of

separate other projects at the moment

operation recall which is about stopping

victims money going into suspect's

account

and we've said millions of pounds as a

result of of that

we've also got operation uh olaf which

is looking at ways that we can

utilize trapped money that sits within

banking to
good effects in in combating the fight

against economic crime

and that's a project i'm leading myself

at the moment um and it's coming towards

sort of

some level of finalization so i think

it's fair to say

you know we can do this without the

banks we can always build stronger

relationships but we have

for many years certainly in the city of

london

built our reputation around um

the investigation and the strategic

response to economic crime

so that relationships have been well

cemented for a long long period of time

and i'm pleased to say

thank you commander and um is that new

handler

old hand you've got there unfortunately

it's a new hand

um clinton thank you very much i i just

wondered

how engaged on all of this the actual

corporation is because

i mean that the great thing is that the

corporation does have quite a lot of

uh significant networks and if there is

anything that can be

assisted um in your in your plans

it would be i think helpful if if they

were engaged if they haven't been

already

um both in the engagement plan and also

assisting

with these um these activities we have

got the chairman of

a bank sitting on the court of common

council which i'm sure you're aware of

thank you and i think there's always an

opportunity there i think once we do

share the engagement plan

and for obviously others to obviously

identify if there are gaps that are

within that

um because obviously all of that should

be covered in it so i would welcome that

um clinton when do you think we will be

launching the plan i mean in my view we

ought to be you know finalizing this and

launching it

you know quite frankly some pre

pre-christmas but is that

um is that within your thinking

uh chairman if you're referring to the

strategic engagement plan i i'd also be

reliant on the commissioner

signing that off and going through sm

smb so i'd have to defer to coming back

to you on uh giving that

date i'm afraid uh noted i mean i i i

think certainly wearing your

uh lead on economic crime i would think

that would be something you would at

least

welcome given the importance of it in

early days

the sooner we get it out the the better

for me but i've got a bit of an

idea today when i meet with the

commissioner in terms of where we're

likely to

see that for sign off okay what we'll do

if members are right rather than um gone

on this one for too long is maybe

we'll circulate a plan uh or ask the

fourth

second plan around the sort of timeline

for completing that

uh certainly with the expectation um i

think that is done sooner rather than

later

and ideally uh launched pre-christmas

thank you

okay um sorry we just said at the

beginning uh

chloe um item 13 which is sitting

which i think we've actually largely

covered which is in

the non-public section uh we were going

to ask just to be moved up to the

uh public section um so i don't think

there's anything in there that needs to

be

heard in non-public so if members can

tend

to do that i would like to move that

item up as i said i think we have

actually largely covered it in the

the verbal update are members content

i think they are so item 13

um commander is anything additional you

wish to say that i said i think we have

covered

the vast majority of uh item 13.

uh no thank you chairman thank you any

questions

on item 13 from members

no in which case tan clark

thank you chairman we moved to item five

is there any other business that you

consider urgent

uh i'm not aware of any

10 o'clock thank you so we moved to item

six and that is to exclude the public

under section 100a of the local

government act chairman

thank you and before we do may i thank

members of the public who have been

watching

uh on youtube and with that

members if we can move to exclude the

public

you