Even When Told Not To, Windows 10 Just Can't Stop Talking To Microsoft

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Even when told not to, Windows 10 just can’t stop talking to Microsoft
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baerpoop Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:07 pm

Seniorius Lurkius
Registered: Aug 28, 2013 diegoaac wrote:
Posts: 1
A solution, add the following to your hosts file:
127.0.0.1 bing.com
127.0.0.1 ssw.live.com
May as well use DisableWinTracking, the Github program mentioned above. It ads the
following entries to the HOSTS file (as well as performing other privacy measures):
0.0.0.0 vortex.data.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
0.0.0.0 oca.telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
0.0.0.0 sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
0.0.0.0 watson.telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 watson.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
0.0.0.0 redir.metaservices.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 choice.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 choice.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
0.0.0.0 df.telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 services.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 sqm.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 watson.ppe.telemetry.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 telemetry.appex.bing.net
0.0.0.0 telemetry.urs.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 telemetry.appex.bing.net:443
0.0.0.0 settings-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 survey.watson.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 watson.live.com
0.0.0.0 watson.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 statsfe2.ws.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 corpext.msitadfs.glbdns2.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 compatexchange.cloudapp.net
0.0.0.0 cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net
0.0.0.0 a-0001.a-msedge.net
0.0.0.0 statsfe2.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
0.0.0.0 sls.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
0.0.0.0 fe2.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
0.0.0.0 65.55.108.23
0.0.0.0 65.39.117.230
0.0.0.0 23.218.212.69
0.0.0.0 134.170.30.202
0.0.0.0 137.116.81.24
0.0.0.0 diagnostics.support.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 corp.sts.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 statsfe1.ws.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 pre.footprintpredict.com
0.0.0.0 204.79.197.200
0.0.0.0 23.218.212.69
0.0.0.0 i1.services.social.microsoft.com
0.0.0.0 i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
0.0.0.0 feedback.windows.com
0.0.0.0 feedback.microsoft-hohm.com
0.0.0.0 feedback.search.microsoft.com
gluepack Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:26 pm

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
It would be nice if I could type something. Nine times out of ten nothing happens after
Registered: Aug 14, 2015 hitting the Win key, the Start menu comes up and trying to type.
Posts: 1
Ulrich Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:59 am

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
It's so cute, how everyone keeps saying "but then I'll just turn off this and that, and
Registered: Mar 30, 2014 install that 3rd-party add-on to disable such and such behavior."
Posts: 60
10 configuration hours later... still phoning home!
Yeah, and that boyfriend will suuuuuurely never hit you again. And you keep going back
to him.
Seriously, how does anyone out there still trust MS, after everything? Is this just a
stopped-worrying-and-love-the-spyware? Is this just a - can't run other OSes because
you absolutely NEEED MS Office and Photoshop and the non-console games?
h4rm0ny Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:25 am

Ars Scholae Palatinae
Registered: Sep 24, 2013 parst181 wrote:
Posts: 1234
UnnDunn wrote:
The problem is the privacy wonks have elevated the "risk" to an
almost-certainty. Not that "bad things could happen", but that "bad
things absolutely will happen." Which is why they're privacy wonks.
There are definitely people who are over-the-top concerned about some of
these privacy issues. But that doesn't make the concerns illegitimate. I have
no reason to believe that the NSA is interested in my conversations, for
example, but that doesn't mean I want my computer effectively
eavesdropping on me and sending everything I say off to some remote
server.
And on top of this, there is simply the fact that many of us care about the society in
which we live and aren't solely focused on whether we think we are being spied on as
an individual. Maybe we don't think that other people should be subject to such
surveillance either.
paperless_society Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:44 am

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
Personally I don't really care what Winders 10 is sending to MS, if it is anonymous or
Registered: Jul 14, 2015 not. It is the fact that MS would be using my resources at all, (if I were using Winders),
Posts: 6
that really bothers me.
We pay good money for our machines and bandwidth, and I am very greedy with my
bandwidth and CPU. This machine is mine, and works for me not MS.
Time to update "I have seen this operating system before" with HAL 9000 as a W8 live
tile.
This will make you blow (your favorite beverage), out your nose.
[img]file:///home/localadmin/Desktop/Ive_seen_this_operating_system_before2.png[/img]
Hmmm, how to post a pic in this place.

Registered: Sep 24, 2013 SPCagigas wrote:
Posts: 1234
Peter Chastain wrote:
SPCagigas wrote:
Bozeman42 wrote:
The postal carrier does need

to take possession of the
contents of your letter in
order to deliver it.
The storage center does
need to have the contents of
your boxes in order to store
them.
Whether they look at it is

another question.
"Taking possession of" isn't the same

as "knowledge of the contents". I can
carry a book without reading it. I can
carry a cassette or USB drive without
knowing the contents. And I can
deliver a letter without reading it.
Cassette? What's that?
My daughter has asked me this very question. Damn, I'm

feelin' old...
I feel ya. My fifth-grader was trying to figure out what to give his
little girlfriend for Christmas. I told him to make her a mixtape. He
just stared at me for about 30 seconds and then said "A what?"
"It's like a playlist," his mom answered. (She's much smarter with
the kids than I am...)
Are you telling me your kids have never seen Guardians of the Galaxy? Maybe it's
them that are out of touch.

Registered: Sep 24, 2013 appleseed wrote:
Posts: 1234
Riffa wrote:
[...]I for one refuse to relinquish my bought and paid for hardware to
someone else who thinks it's theirs. By this time next year, I may
not even own a Windows machine. Change that to probably. Fuck
MS.
If you do get around to installing a Linux system I recommend for the first
time you make one partition for everything. It will save you headaches down
the road as you learn. Once you know how you want things and you know
how to partition a hard drive with whatever tool you prefer (I like parted) you
can get a layout you like. Also stay away from exotic filesystems in the
beginning, and use ext3. Again once you get settled you can find something
you like.
Okay, I tolerated the endless posts on a Windows article where you touted Debian
constantly because I use Debian professionally and I don't want to downvote
something that says it's good even though you're basically just trying to capitalize on
this Windows article as an opportunity to tell people what they should use. But the
above is just flat-out bad advice. Create a partition for your home directory(ies) and
then another partition for the rest. THAT is the best advice for beginners because when
they want to change something / break something / feel like trying out another distro,
they can do any of these things without wiping their data or having to perform tiresome
backups.
Now hopefully we can get back to discussing Windows which is what this article was
about.
theSeb Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:13 am

Registered: Nov 19, 2014 Now that we discussed this to death, here is another interesting bit from the EULA
Posts: 1671
Section 7 b
Quote:
b. Sometimes you’ll need software updates to keep using the Services. We

may automatically check your version of the software and download
software updates or configuration changes, including those that prevent
you from accessing the Services, playing counterfeit games, or using
unauthorized hardware peripheral devices. You may also be required to
update the software to continue using the Services. Such updates are subject
to these Terms unless other terms accompany the updates, in which case,
those other terms apply. Microsoft isn’t obligated to make any updates
available and we don’t guarantee that we will support the version of the
system for which you licensed the software.
What are unauthorised hardware peripheral devices? Modified game pads?
Digger Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:59 am

Ars Tribunus
Angusticlavius
Quote:
Tribus: Hell
Registered: May 13, 2000 ...unauthorized hardware peripheral devices
Posts: 7510
I have no idea, that's an odd one. Perhaps it's there to future-proof the EULA? Or
maybe (and this is all I can think of) one of ROM-modding devices that allows you to
use your XBox to play Japanese-only games?
Dark Empath Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:28 am

Ars Tribunus
Angusticlavius
VillainChris wrote:
Tribus: Canberra,
Australia I am curious how well the OS runs when it's completely disconnected from
Registered: Aug 8, 2007 Internet. The live tiles feature is something Microsoft has been pushing since
Posts: 7745
Windows 95 ("Channels"), but didn't really catch on in previous versions due
to IMO limited connectivity, and more specifically limited value.
Unsurprisingly, internet dependant features don't work without internet access. On a

related note, your video card is useless when you don't turn on your monitor.
IOpic Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:53 pm

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
That's only the tip of the iceberg.
Registered: Aug 16, 2015
Posts: 1
I ran wireshark, some .NET debugging tools, and used another computer running linux
as network bridge, for an independent inspection. I found in the first week, hundreds of
megabytes sent to various microsoft servers. Half a gigabyte at least.
Win10 was setup with all privacy options turned off (opt out of everything), Cortana
disabled and crippled (I deleted all 'cortana' named files), Onedrive removed (
"%SystemRoot%\SysWOW64\OneDriveSetup.exe /uninstall" ), and all "apps"
uninstalled or crippled when they refused to uninstall (I KNOW how to use Get-
AppxPackage). Some crippled files were automatically downloaded again.
All telemetry options were disabled with windows policy.
Then I blocked everything with Windows Firewall, and blocked Microsoft servers with
etc/hosts. It had no effect, so I installed Comodo Firewall, and blocked everything.
Although the traffic was reduced, it keep sending at least 100 mb of data in a week,
and most of it went unreported in .NET debbuger and W10 resource monitor. Only the
Linux machine catched it.
I also found that many non microsoft software was interchanging a huge load of data
with microsoft servers. For example, the search engine Everything.exe continously
sent data to genuine.microsoft.com each time I did a hard disk search. I contacted
those companies, to ask if they used any MS services (I hypothesized that they used
Microsoft solutions for software activation, and they answered that their software does
not use any Microsoft server). Some used .NET platform, but not all, so maybe it is
inherent to .NET (Which is also objectionable, since the software does tasks non
programmed to do, and out of control of the writer)
So, I repeated the test with a barebone Windows 10 (Only Comodo added), reinstalled,
and found again 450 Gb of data sent to Microsoft Servers in the first week.
I lost any trust at all in Microsoft. Everything in Windows 10 is either plain surveying or
suspicious. What is not right surveying, looks like social engineering. Everything
BEHAVES EXACTLY LIKE PLAIN MALWARE. It uses the same pattern: the used
can't control the installed software, removal is obfuscated, and removed software
installs itself again, automatically. Network traffic is hidden, and control is taken away
from the user.
The OS had added a lot of undocumented "features", which Microsoft refuses to clarify.
It had a tradition of obscurity, but when MSDN was digged, it all emerged to light. No
more.
Microsoft started misbehaving when it tried to push a tablet interface on server OS. It
showed that MS was completely out of touch. Now Windows 10 is simply a non starter
for any enterprise application. It is full of security "holes" (plain spying). Is an OS
designed around the paradigm of breaching security.
IS AN OS DESIGNED AROUND THE PARADIGM OF BREACHING SECURITY.
DesertShadow Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:33 pm

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
IOpic wrote:
Posts: 2 That's only the tip of the iceberg.
....
IS AN OS DESIGNED AROUND THE PARADIGM OF BREACHING
SECURITY.
Can you link your results with screenshots and data? This needs to be published as an
article of it's own and sent to newspapers
jp10558 Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:46 pm

Seniorius Lurkius
Registered: Sep 15, 2004 theSeb wrote:
Posts: 40
I am not trying to defend Windows, but Linux is simply not a viable choice for
many users, so I don't see what it has to do with the article.
At some point - and I'm not saying Windows 10 is it - but theoretically, there must be
some point where Windows is not a viable choice. I'm not even saying Microsoft will
ever get there - it's likely they'll self correct or society will move to accept this
situation.
It also seems reasonable to ask why an article about something being bad doesn't
actually make a judgment that it's bad and you shouldn't use it. It's done all the time
regarding cars, or retail stores or . . .
It also seems strange to me to limit yourself to "Whelp - this is bad, but you can't do
anything about it because you have to use it". That's just not true. It might be difficult,
it might be a pain, you might have to change how you do your work, or even change
what work you do - but you do have a choice.
And this isn't even at the level of NSA spying where you would have to make
potentially life ruining choices to change anything.
This article is generally about what OS someone uses on a home computer! Plenty of
people live without any computer, plenty more live without Windows 10!
jp10558 Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:57 pm

Seniorius Lurkius
Registered: Sep 15, 2004 panton41 wrote:
Posts: 40
BatCrapCrazy wrote:
theSeb wrote:
NeoMorpheus wrote:
GreyAreaUk wrote:
NeoMorpheus wrote:
Well, the saga continues and

yet, the ms apologists
continue justifying this
behavior, including Ars.
You what? Ars are reporting on this as

a bad thing. How on Charon does that
make them 'apologists'?
Where in this article does Ars bothers in saying

"this is wrong, abandon ship, don't use Windows
10"?
Or the fact that this is their second article on

this subject and yet, the word Linux is not
mentioned once?
I am not trying to defend Windows, but Linux is simply not

a viable choice for many users, so I don't see what it has
to do with the article.
Linux is viable for everyone if they want to try, hell if my 69yr old
mother can use Ubuntu on her netbook proficiently...anyone can.
I have more than $1,000 of graphics software that's tightly bound to using
high end graphics cards that support CUDA. There is no Linux version of my
software. I'm actually lucky the company supports Windows because a
majority of their products are MacOS only. For that matter Apple doesn't offer
high-end CUDA graphics. No, Wine doesn't support it. You're lucky Wine can
run "Hello World" half the time, much less software that directly interfaces the
drivers.
I also have about $2,500 tied up in Steam game of which only a handful run
on Linux. Only marginally more run on MacOS. Let's add on several hundreds
of dollars of games I play off of Origin (yes, I use Origin).
None of that is getting into hundreds of more dollars of other software I use
on a regular basis that has no viable alternative on Linux. I include Microsoft
Office in that list because if you think LibreOffice is even remotely
comparable to modern MS Office I have a bridge I can sell you. (It's barely
comparable to Office 2003.) Let's also include specialize gaming hardware
that only supports WIndows (TrackIR and my surround-sound headphones
comes to mind).
Tell me again how Linux is a real option for me. For my grandfather who
literally only uses a web browser? Certainly. He loves Linux Mint. Even
MacOS wouldn't fully meet my needs despite huge gains in compatibility over
the last decade. I actually use Windows and I like Windows. Telling someone
"Get a Mac" or "Install Linux" is nothing but utter arrogance and total
disregard and disrespect for the other person.
Well, maybe you made bad choices in what software you decided to use and what
entertainment you chose to get. You might lose your investment. I think it's not
disrespectful to tell someone you think their entertainment choices are questionable.
I basically see this as the argument that you hate that Sam's Club searches your cart
before letting you leave after you bought stuff. And then saying it's disrespectful for
someone to suggest you go to Wegmans instead, because you spent $100 for the
membership. No - you signed up for that. If you decide you don't like your cart being
checked before you leave - stop shopping there.
I'm not disregarding or disrespecting you, but this also seems like you could apply the
argument to the SUV situation a couple years ago when gas was $4.25 a gallon. If the
cost doesn't work for you, it's not utter arrogance to suggest you ought to use a vehicle
who's cost *does* work for you.
And if you are OK with the Windows 10 cost - what are you even responding to here?
DesertShadow Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:16 pm

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
IOpic wrote:
Posts: 2 That's only the tip of the iceberg.
I ran wireshark, some .NET debugging tools, and used another computer
running linux as network bridge, for an independent inspection. I found in the
first week, hundreds of megabytes sent to various microsoft servers. Half a
gigabyte at least.
Win10 was setup with all privacy options turned off (opt out of everything),
Cortana disabled and crippled (I deleted all 'cortana' named files), Onedrive
removed ( "%SystemRoot%\SysWOW64\OneDriveSetup.exe /uninstall" ),
and all "apps" uninstalled or crippled when they refused to uninstall (I KNOW
how to use Get-AppxPackage). Some crippled files were automatically
downloaded again.
Then I blocked everything with Windows Firewall, and blocked Microsoft

servers with etc/hosts. It had no effect, so I installed Comodo Firewall, and
blocked everything. Although the traffic was reduced, it keep sending at least
100 mb of data in a week, and most of it went unreported in .NET debbuger
and W10 resource monitor. Only the Linux machine catched it.
I also found that many non microsoft software was interchanging a huge load
of data with microsoft servers. For example, the search engine
Everything.exe continously sent data to genuine.microsoft.com each time I
did a hard disk search. I contacted those companies, to ask if they used any
MS services (I hypothesized that they used Microsoft solutions for software
activation, and they answered that their software does not use any Microsoft
server). Some used .NET platform, but not all, so maybe it is inherent to
.NET (Which is also objectionable, since the software does tasks non
So, I repeated the test with a barebone Windows 10 (Only Comodo added),
reinstalled, and found again 450 Gb of data sent to Microsoft Servers in the
first week.
I lost any trust at all in Microsoft. Everything in Windows 10 is either plain

surveying or suspicious. What is not right surveying, looks like social
engineering. Everything BEHAVES EXACTLY LIKE PLAIN MALWARE. It
uses the same pattern: the used can't control the installed software, removal
is obfuscated, and removed software installs itself again, automatically.
Network traffic is hidden, and control is taken away from the user.
The OS had added a lot of undocumented "features", which Microsoft refuses

to clarify. It had a tradition of obscurity, but when MSDN was digged, it all
emerged to light. No more.
Microsoft started misbehaving when it tried to push a tablet interface on

server OS. It showed that MS was completely out of touch. Now Windows 10
is simply a non starter for any enterprise application. It is full of security
"holes" (plain spying). Is an OS designed around the paradigm of breaching
security.

SECURITY.
From a friend:
"Depending on what's being sent, perhaps. He probably simply forgot to turn off the
option in Windows update that turns your computer into a torrent node for Windows
updates. That'd explain a heckuvalot of the data. problem is, he didn't actually look at
the data being sent.
"Sounds like a fun science project."
theSeb Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:00 pm

Registered: Nov 19, 2014 jp10558 wrote:
Posts: 1671
theSeb wrote:
I am not trying to defend Windows, but Linux is simply not a viable

choice for many users, so I don't see what it has to do with the
article.
At some point - and I'm not saying Windows 10 is it - but theoretically, there
must be some point where Windows is not a viable choice. I'm not even
saying Microsoft will ever get there - it's likely they'll self correct or society
will move to accept this situation.
It also seems reasonable to ask why an article about something being bad
doesn't actually make a judgment that it's bad and you shouldn't use it. It's
done all the time regarding cars, or retail stores or . . .
It also seems strange to me to limit yourself to "Whelp - this is bad, but you
can't do anything about it because you have to use it". That's just not true. It
might be difficult, it might be a pain, you might have to change how you do
your work, or even change what work you do - but you do have a choice.
This article is generally about what OS someone uses on a home computer!

Plenty of people live without any computer, plenty more live without Windows
10!
I only use Windows to play games, so I have already made that choice 6 years ago.
However, I understand that moving to another operating system is not a viable option
for everyone.
Dark Empath Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:03 am

Ars Tribunus
Angusticlavius
IOpic wrote:
Tribus: Canberra,
Australia Win10 was setup with all privacy options turned off (opt out of everything),
Posts: 7745 Cortana disabled and crippled (I deleted all 'cortana' named files), Onedrive
how to use Get-AppxPackage).
Thanks for the OneDrive tip! I'd been trying to figure out how to uninstall that for days!
I know you say you know how to use get-appxpackage, but for the sake of those that
don't, here's what I did.
Although I never used Photos, never set it up, never even opened it, it had a
background task that would run for ages after booting, taking up ~45% of my netbook's
CPU. Being a core app or whatever, you can't uninstall it via the "Apps & Features"
control.
So, launch powershell as Admin and type:

powershell "Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers"
That will list all the Metro apps you have installed. To find a specific app, pipe it
through powershell's grep equivalent:
powershell "Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers" | select-string "photos"
Once you have the proper package name, uninstall by typing:

remove-AppxPackage
Microsoft.Windows.Photos_15.803.16240.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe
I've removed quite a few uninstallable apps this way. I tried not to over-do it, I didn't
uninstall App Connector or anything I thought might be tied to apps I wanted to keep.
Quote:
Some crippled files were automatically downloaded again.

I don't know what you mean by "crippled". Nothing I've uninstalled has come back, and
I haven't "crippled" them, whatever that means.
Quote:
first week.
Even assuming you meant 450MB, I agree with DesertShadow. I think you forgot to
turn off uploading to the internet.
Under Updates, choose "Advanced Options", then "Choose how updates are
delivered". Either toggle the switch to "Off", or choose "PCs on my local network".
Other than that, the rest of your post is full of hyperbole and paranoid rhetoric. When
you carry on like this:
Quote:

SECURITY.
It's hard to get people to take the real security threats seriously.
Magic Man Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:26 am

Ars Praefectus
Tribus: UK Delicieuxz wrote:
Registered: Sep 30, 1999
Posts: 3359 Storing a file, copying its 0s and 1s, doesn't involve accessing, copying, and
using the file contents. The above line in Microsoft's EULA is not talking
about copying the digital code of the file for purposes of storing it - 0% of that
EULA wording is referring to copying the digital imprint of a file to transfer it
across services. It is talking about Microsoft making use of the actual
readable contents within the file, or email.
Presumably, for OneDrive and the like, they de-dupe so have to have access to your
files that you have willingly uploaded to them.
Fyrebaugh Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:44 am

Tribus: My mind's eye Digger wrote:
sees beaches.. Beaches
everywhere! Quote:
Registered: Mar 19, 2012
Posts: 981
...unauthorized hardware peripheral devices
I have no idea, that's an odd one. Perhaps it's there to future-proof the EULA?
Or maybe (and this is all I can think of) one of ROM-modding devices that
allows you to use your XBox to play Japanese-only games?
Remember Game Shark on consoles?
http://www.amazon.com/GameShark-Playsta ... B00000K4CR
Maybe it is to prevent someone plugging in a peripheral that would allow cheating in

online gaming?
Fyrebaugh Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:54 am

Tribus: My mind's eye jp10558 wrote:
everywhere! theSeb wrote:
Posts: 981
I am not trying to defend Windows, but Linux is simply not a viable
choice for many users, so I don't see what it has to do with the
article.
At some point - and I'm not saying Windows 10 is it - but theoretically, there
must be some point where Windows is not a viable choice. I'm not even
saying Microsoft will ever get there - it's likely they'll self correct or society
will move to accept this situation.
It also seems reasonable to ask why an article about something being bad
doesn't actually make a judgment that it's bad and you shouldn't use it. It's
done all the time regarding cars, or retail stores or . . .
It also seems strange to me to limit yourself to "Whelp - this is bad, but you
can't do anything about it because you have to use it". That's just not true. It
might be difficult, it might be a pain, you might have to change how you do
your work, or even change what work you do - but you do have a choice.
This article is generally about what OS someone uses on a home computer!

Plenty of people live without any computer, plenty more live without Windows
10!
I know this has been brought up before, but Facebook showed many software
companies that the general user will use the service if they don't have to pay for it and
that it doesn't matter that a lot of personal data is shared, used, sold to marketers.
Even if a percentage of people realize the risk and do not use it at all, the majority
simply do not realize the amount of information that can be collected and sold / used.
SPCagigas Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:06 am

Ars Praefectus
Tribus: Metro Detroit h4rm0ny wrote:
Registered: Jun 28, 2012
Posts: 4108 SPCagigas wrote:
SPCagigas wrote:
Bozeman42 wrote:
"Taking possession of" isn't

the same as "knowledge of
the contents". I can carry a
book without reading it. I can
carry a cassette or USB
drive without knowing the
contents. And I can deliver a
letter without reading it.
Cassette? What's that?
My daughter has asked me this very question.

Damn, I'm feelin' old...
I feel ya. My fifth-grader was trying to figure out what to

give his little girlfriend for Christmas. I told him to make
her a mixtape. He just stared at me for about 30 seconds
and then said "A what?"
"It's like a playlist," his mom answered. (She's much

smarter with the kids than I am...)
Are you telling me your kids have never seen Guardians of the Galaxy?
Maybe it's them that are out of touch.
They've seen it, but this conversation was a few years ago, pre-GotG (maybe 2012 or
2013 or so).

Ars Praefectus
Tribus: Metro Detroit Magic Man wrote:
Posts: 4108 Delicieuxz wrote:
Storing a file, copying its 0s and 1s, doesn't involve accessing,

copying, and using the file contents. The above line in Microsoft's
EULA is not talking about copying the digital code of the file for
purposes of storing it - 0% of that EULA wording is referring to
copying the digital imprint of a file to transfer it across services. It
is talking about Microsoft making use of the actual readable
contents within the file, or email.
Presumably, for OneDrive and the like, they de-dupe so have to have access
to your files that you have willingly uploaded to them.
Well, any kind of versioning or indexing or search functionality would require them to
have access to the file contents, wouldn't it?
Magic Man Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:09 pm

Ars Praefectus
Tribus: UK SPCagigas wrote:
Registered: Sep 30, 1999
Posts: 3359 Well, any kind of versioning or indexing or search functionality would require
them to have access to the file contents, wouldn't it?
Exactly the point.
SPCagigas Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:17 pm

Ars Praefectus
Tribus: Metro Detroit Magic Man wrote:
Posts: 4108 SPCagigas wrote:
Well, any kind of versioning or indexing or search functionality

would require them to have access to the file contents, wouldn't it?
Exactly the point.
Yeh, I was trying to rebut Delicieuxz's implication that MS is being duplicitous with their
EULA since it says that kind of stuff. It's (IMHO) obviously lawyerese intended to
protect them from some idiot going after them for copyright infringement or something
similar.
greypowerOz Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:06 pm

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
i wonder if adding these "harmless" but "questionable" hosts to my local HOSTS file
Registered: Aug 20, 2015 (with address 127.0.0.1) would do any harm.....
Posts: 1
SPCagigas Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:29 pm

Ars Praefectus
Tribus: Metro Detroit greypowerOz wrote:
Posts: 4108 i wonder if adding these "harmless" but "questionable" hosts to my local
HOSTS file (with address 127.0.0.1) would do any harm.....
Probably not, but if you had read all the comments first, you'd have seen that many
folks say that doesn't do anything.
bimmin Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:28 pm

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
Like there is any difference between MS, Apple and Google; they are all arms of the
Registered: Feb 17, 2015 government and hell-bent on having the entire planet under dragnet surveillance.
Posts: 11
Proprietary software needs to become the dirty word that it is.
bkaral Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:50 pm

Ars Tribunus Militum
Registered: Jun 2, 2001 A fascinating claim. Not to say that I don't believe you, but have you got any
Posts: 1587 screenshots/logs of this process?
IOpic wrote:
That's only the tip of the iceberg.
I ran wireshark, some .NET debugging tools, and used another computer
running linux as network bridge, for an independent inspection. I found in the
first week, hundreds of megabytes sent to various microsoft servers. Half a
gigabyte at least.
Win10 was setup with all privacy options turned off (opt out of everything),
Cortana disabled and crippled (I deleted all 'cortana' named files), Onedrive
how to use Get-AppxPackage). Some crippled files were automatically
downloaded again.
Then I blocked everything with Windows Firewall, and blocked Microsoft

servers with etc/hosts. It had no effect, so I installed Comodo Firewall, and
blocked everything. Although the traffic was reduced, it keep sending at least
100 mb of data in a week, and most of it went unreported in .NET debbuger
and W10 resource monitor. Only the Linux machine catched it.
I also found that many non microsoft software was interchanging a huge load
of data with microsoft servers. For example, the search engine
Everything.exe continously sent data to genuine.microsoft.com each time I
did a hard disk search. I contacted those companies, to ask if they used any
MS services (I hypothesized that they used Microsoft solutions for software
activation, and they answered that their software does not use any Microsoft
server). Some used .NET platform, but not all, so maybe it is inherent to
.NET (Which is also objectionable, since the software does tasks non
first week.
I lost any trust at all in Microsoft. Everything in Windows 10 is either plain

surveying or suspicious. What is not right surveying, looks like social
engineering. Everything BEHAVES EXACTLY LIKE PLAIN MALWARE. It
uses the same pattern: the used can't control the installed software, removal
is obfuscated, and removed software installs itself again, automatically.
Network traffic is hidden, and control is taken away from the user.
The OS had added a lot of undocumented "features", which Microsoft refuses

to clarify. It had a tradition of obscurity, but when MSDN was digged, it all
emerged to light. No more.
Microsoft started misbehaving when it tried to push a tablet interface on

server OS. It showed that MS was completely out of touch. Now Windows 10
is simply a non starter for any enterprise application. It is full of security
"holes" (plain spying). Is an OS designed around the paradigm of breaching
security.

SECURITY.
Reefer Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:52 am

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
bkaral wrote:
Registered: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 100 A fascinating claim. Not to say that I don't believe you, but have you got any
screenshots/logs of this process?
As stated above in several postings IOpic most likely hasnt turned off the "torrent
node" functionality in windows update. That would explain most, if not all, data
uploaded from his W10 computer when all the options in disablewintracking is enabled.
Further, ramble on like he does in his post makes me think that he is just another
paranoid linux troll that is so common whenever Microsoft and/or Windows is up for
discussion.

Ars Praefectus
Tribus: Metro Detroit bimmin wrote:
Posts: 4108 Like there is any difference between MS, Apple and Google; they are all arms
of the government and hell-bent on having the entire planet under dragnet
surveillance. Proprietary software needs to become the dirty word that it is.
The tinfoil hat!!! It's too tight, man! Too tight! It's cutting off circulation to your brain!
For Gods' sake, loosen it, before you become susceptible to the chemtrails!
oldnuke69 Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:51 pm

Seniorius Lurkius
Registered: Nov 29, 2012 Can all of the telemetry be shut off in the Enterprise version? A network can always be
Posts: 13 set up as an intranet that is not connected to the outside world at all. I have worked
that way at a couple of large engineering companies to prevent any changes at all to
systems after the testing and installation of "qualifed" software. A similar situation
would be present for systems on a classified network. No connection would exist, but
I'm curious how many attempts to "phone home" would be occurring anyway.
Fyrebaugh Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:56 pm

Tribus: My mind's eye oldnuke69 wrote:
everywhere! Can all of the telemetry be shut off in the Enterprise version? A network can
Posts: 981 always be set up as an intranet that is not connected to the outside world at
all. I have worked that way at a couple of large engineering companies to
prevent any changes at all to systems after the testing and installation of
"qualifed" software. A similar situation would be present for systems on a
classified network. No connection would exist, but I'm curious how many
attempts to "phone home" would be occurring anyway.
Well in that scenario, surely you have routing tables for your routers and networking, at
that point you could setup a rule to have any traffic coming from the computer group to
go nowhere. The computers would still try to "phone home" but it wouldn't go anywhere.
You could then check the routing for where it is going and either allow or disallow...
jolebole Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:28 am

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
Micro$oft is just going deeper in the rabbit hole..More reasons to stick with my Fedora
Registered: Aug 24, 2015 22
Posts: 3
caldepen Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:15 am

Ars Tribunus Militum
Registered: Aug 28, 2013 Is there 3rd party software that can act as a gate or airlock that can turn off all data
Posts: 7340 being sent? I would like to have it so only when I am surfing or playing a game is there
an exchange of data and only the data that I allow/know about is being sent and
received.
There should be a way of doing this via the router, no? Something that overrides the
OS's of the devices connected.
cwsars Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:23 pm

et Subscriptor
Yes, @caldepen-- 3rd party software and/or hardware devices which act as network
Tribus: California gates are commonly called "firewalls". Correctly implemented, they monitor and control
Registered: May 7, 2015
Posts: 705 network data exchange.
SPCagigas Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:03 am

Ars Praefectus
Tribus: Metro Detroit jolebole wrote:
Posts: 4108 Micro$oft is just going deeper in the rabbit hole..More reasons to stick with
my Fedora 22
Cool! Can you tell us about your crossfit regimen, the dog you rescued from the high-
kill shelter, and the screenplay you're writing, too!?!?!!?!?!?!
rtechie Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:57 am

Tribus: Austin, TX Dark Empath wrote:
Registered: Nov 13, 2000
Posts: 1171 apple seems to be able to implement a system on their iPhones where your
encrypted data is uploaded to their servers. So while apple may store your
data, they don't actually have access to the content of your data. They store
your photos, but they have no idea whether they're storing landscapes or
dickpics.
This is untrue. Apple also has the key. Law enforcement has access to anything you
upload to Apple's servers.
"Apple retains the encryption keys in our own data centers"

http://www.apple.com/privacy/privacy-built-in/
Google does 100% exactly the same thing.
The only way around this is to use 3rd-party encryption (like TrueCrypt) to upload data
as encrypted binary blobs.
Windows 10 has Bitlocker built-in to do this. Bitlocker is a little sketchy because by

default it will backup your key to OneDrive. This is generally good, because you want
to be able to recover your data if you forget the password, but it would be better to
backup that key to a thumbdrive (which you can also do).
I don't think you can encrypt regular OneDrive with an external key, but I think you can
use an external Bitlocker key for Onedrive for Business. I think this puts Microsoft in a
a somewhat legally precarious position in the USA however.
Nezvanova Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:11 pm

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
wraith808 wrote:
Registered: Jul 14, 2003
Posts: 51 There is a similar program for windows:
https://www.winpatrol.com/winprivacy/
Although WinPrivacy is a cute little PAYware utility, it is strictly for most applications
(*.exe) that attempt to connect outside of your local network.

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
IOpic wrote:
Posts: 51 ... and found again 450 Gb of data sent to Microsoft Servers in the first week.
How many weeks has it been since Win10 officially released? Barely 4?

Smack-Fu Master, in
training
Dark Empath wrote:
Posts: 51 ...but for the sake of those that don't, here's what I did.
*So, launch powershell as Admin and type: >> powershell "Get-AppxPackage
-AllUsers"
*That will list all the Metro apps you have installed. To find a specific app,
pipe it through powershell's grep equivalent: >> powershell "Get-
AppxPackage -AllUsers" | select-string "photos"
*Once you have the proper package name, uninstall by typing: >> remove-
AppxPackage
Microsoft.Windows.Photos_15.803.16240.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe
*I've removed quite a few uninstallable apps this way...
Thank you!
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Even When Told Not To, Windows 10 Just Can't Stop Talking To Microsoft

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baerpoop Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:07 pm

gluepack Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:26 pm

Ulrich Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:59 am

10 configuration hours later... still phoning home!

h4rm0ny Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:25 am

paperless_society Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:44 am

Hmmm, how to post a pic in this place.

h4rm0ny Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:47 am

Peter Chastain wrote:

Peter Chastain wrote:

The postal carrier does need

Whether they look at it is

"Taking possession of" isn't the same

Cassette? What's that?

My daughter has asked me this very question. Damn, I'm

h4rm0ny Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:55 am

theSeb Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:13 am

b. Sometimes you’ll need software updates to keep using the Services. We

What are unauthorised hardware peripheral devices? Modified game pads?

Digger Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:59 am

Dark Empath Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:28 am

Unsurprisingly, internet dependant features don't work without internet access. On a

IOpic Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:53 pm

IS AN OS DESIGNED AROUND THE PARADIGM OF BREACHING SECURITY.

DesertShadow Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:33 pm

jp10558 Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:46 pm

jp10558 Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:57 pm

Well, the saga continues and

You what? Ars are reporting on this as

Where in this article does Ars bothers in saying

Or the fact that this is their second article on

I am not trying to defend Windows, but Linux is simply not

DesertShadow Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:16 pm

Then I blocked everything with Windows Firewall, and blocked Microsoft

I lost any trust at all in Microsoft. Everything in Windows 10 is either plain

The OS had added a lot of undocumented "features", which Microsoft refuses

Microsoft started misbehaving when it tried to push a tablet interface on

IS AN OS DESIGNED AROUND THE PARADIGM OF BREACHING

theSeb Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:00 pm

I am not trying to defend Windows, but Linux is simply not a viable

This article is generally about what OS someone uses on a home computer!

Dark Empath Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:03 am

So, launch powershell as Admin and type:

Once you have the proper package name, uninstall by typing:

Some crippled files were automatically downloaded again.

IS AN OS DESIGNED AROUND THE PARADIGM OF BREACHING

Magic Man Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:26 am

Fyrebaugh Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:44 am

http://www.amazon.com/GameShark-Playsta ... B00000K4CR

Maybe it is to prevent someone plugging in a peripheral that would allow cheating in

Fyrebaugh Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:54 am

This article is generally about what OS someone uses on a home computer!

SPCagigas Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:06 am

Peter Chastain wrote:

"Taking possession of" isn't

Cassette? What's that?

My daughter has asked me this very question.

I feel ya. My fifth-grader was trying to figure out what to

"It's like a playlist," his mom answered. (She's much

SPCagigas Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:10 am