Music 250

Discussing and Approaching “Tradition”

March 31, 2021

Re-Introductions
 For Today
• Discuss the Hobsbawm and Williams readings in
breakout sessions, then as a class

• Think about ways to approach tradition that will

be useful in this course.
Q1: How does Eric Hobsbawm (1983) define “invented tradition”? How does Raymond Williams (1977) define
“selective tradition”? If we follow their definitions, are invented traditions different from selective traditions?
Why or why not? Are there any traditions that are not invented or not selective?

Q2: According to Eric Hobsbawm, how do ideas about the past shape people’s ideas about tradition? (Hint: see
pages 6-8.) What does he mean by “genuine” tradition (1983: 8)? Do you agree that we can distinguish
between “genuine” and “invented” traditions? Why or why not?

Q3: Raymond Williams argues that “[w]hat we have to see is not just ‘a tradition’ but a selective tradition: an
intentionally selective version of a shaping past and a pre-shaped present, which is then powerfully operative
in the process of social and cultural definition and identification” (1977: 115). What does this mean? What
does Williams mean by a “shaping past” and a “pre-shaped present”? What does Williams mean when he
writes that tradition is an “actively shaping force” (1977: 115)?

Q4: Raymond Williams states that “[w]hat has then to be said about any tradition is that it is in this sense an
aspect of contemporary social and cultural organization, in the interest of the dominance of a specific class”
(1977: 116).
He also writes, “[i]t is at the vital points of connection, where a version of the past is used to ratify the present
and to indicate directions for the future, that a selective tradition is at once powerful and vulnerable” (1977:
116).
In your own words, explain what Williams means in each of these sentences. What is the relationship between
people’s concepts of the past, present, and future?
•Note: Answers on the following slides
are generated through class discussion

• (other answers are possible)

Q1: How does Eric Hobsbawm (1983) define “invented tradition”? How does
Raymond Williams (1977) define “selective tradition”? If we follow their definitions,
are invented traditions different from selective traditions? Why or why not? Are
there any traditions that are not invented or not selective?

• Time frame distinguishes

• Spectrum, rather than distinct categories
• Christmas as tradition selected toward consumerism
• Can be not invented, but selected
Q2: According to Eric Hobsbawm, how do ideas about the past shape people’s ideas
about tradition? (Hint: see pages 6-8.) What does he mean by “genuine” tradition
(1983: 8)? Do you agree that we can distinguish between “genuine” and “invented”
traditions? Why or why not?

• Presumption of a dark past (irrationality)

• Genuine tradition: persists; establishes morals/values; does not
necessitate revival
• Not a binary between invented-genuine
• One can transform into the other
Q3: Raymond Williams argues that “[w]hat we have to see is not just ‘a tradition’
but a selective tradition: an intentionally selective version of a shaping past and a
pre-shaped present, which is then powerfully operative in the process of social and
cultural definition and identification” (1977: 115). What does this mean? What
does Williams mean by a “shaping past” and a “pre-shaped present”? What does
Williams mean when he writes that tradition is an “actively shaping force” (1977:
115)?
• Objective historical accounts difficult
• Tradition furthers desires for/of values
• 4th of July: distrust of government (e.g. mask mandate resistance)
Q4: Raymond Williams states that “[w]hat has then to be said about
any tradition is that it is in this sense an
aspect of contemporary social and cultural organization, in the interest
of the dominance of a specific class”
(1977: 116).
He also writes, “[i]t is at the vital points of connection, where a version
of the past is used to ratify the present and to indicate directions for
the future, that a selective tradition is at once powerful and
vulnerable” (1977: 116).
In your own words, explain what Williams means in each of these
sentences. What is the relationship between people’s concepts of the
past, present, and future?
 Q4 class responses:
• Indoctrinatation of/by dominant class impacts ideas of relationship of
past/present/future time
• Influences values
• Vulnerable to shifts in values
• Traditions can change or be jettisoned if values change
• Some traditions not as malignant as others
• Groundhog’s day – not damaging
 Some Takeaway Points
• Tradition is not static

• Tradition is shaped by people

• Can call this process invention, selection, or other terms

• Dynamics of power are at play in the ongoing

production of tradition