Symbolism of mechanical objects

 Katsu is made by Mori and is a very advanced piece of technology that was too advanced
for its time and did not fit in. Similarly, Mori does not fit into his society with his
supernatural abilities – Maddy
 Mori cannot always control Katsu because of the random gears he used, and similarly he
cannot always predict what is exactly going to happen in the future. -Jack
Is Watchmaker more fate or more free will?
 I think Watchmaker is more free will because we see how Mori can only predict the
future somewhat. For example, Grace is able to escape Mori.
 Depends on the character. Thaniel is fate because he is being controlled by Mori and
guided to his fate. On the other hand, we see Mori have more free will as he can kind of
shape his own future. -Jack
 We see Mori like to have his fate decided despite his ability to predict. For example, he
insisted on changing to a game of dice instead of playing cards because he would not be
able to predict the dice. Furthermore, he created Katsu with random gears that would
allow randomness in the actions of his creation. -Sarah W
 The best comment I heard was from Sarah Waller during the discussion of fate versus
freewill. Sarah said that although Mori had freewill in the book due to his future-
predicting abilities, Mori liked to put his future up to fate. For example, when Grace
comes over and they play cards, Mori suggests they switch to a game with dice because it
is more random, and he cannot predict what will happen. Another example is the creation
of Katsu. Katsu is built with random springs and as a result makes its own random
decisions. Mori may have made this companion because he likes not knowing what it will
do from day to day. I like this comment because it talks about Mori in a way that I have
never thought of. Although, I do think there are some counter arguments that could be
made about how Mori actually likes to control his future and not leave it up to fate.
Wilde vs Pulley (on fate vs freewill)
 Wilde uses the ideas of freewill more destructively as Dorian is destroyed by his choices.
Pulley uses freewill more positively as Mori uses his sense of freewill to meet with
Thaniel and create a strong relationship.
 Dorian starts with free will but once he chooses his path his free will begins to fade. As
he learns how his choices have been destroying him and he finally tries to escape the hole
he dug, his freewill has already dissipated. For example, although he left the village girl
he was in love with, that does not automatically set him on a different path. -Alex/Jack
o I think that Dorian never really had his own freewill, but he was kind of under the
freewill of Lord Henry. We know how Lord Henry is able to dominate the people
around him with his words, so from the start, I feel like right when Dorian met
Lord Henry his fate was sealed. Dorian had become Lord Henry’s little science
project and although he could have technically decided his own fate, it was hard
to escape the fate he was trapped into.
Wilde vs Pulley (gender prejudice)
 Pulley transcends the gender norms much more than Wilde. For example, Grace is a
high-class lady who does not fit in anywhere because of her boyish characteristics and
interest in science. Nothing that she did was very normal for a woman in her time. Even
when she chose her own husband in Thaniel despite who her father wanted her to marry.
-jack
 It was very ironic how Lady Bracknell was enforcing the gender norms on Gwendolyn
even though she was a woman herself. She acted as the head of the house and would not
let Gwendolyn marry who she wanted. -Ming
 Mori and Thaniel break the gender norms for men as they have a bit of homosexual
undertones. Grace breaks the gender norms as she uses her marriage for her own personal
gain and ambitions in science. – Caitlyn
Who has more power in the novels between men and women?
 Women have more power in Ernest because the men are changing their name and altering
from the women. Furthermore, Lady Bracknell is the one of ultimate power in the play as
she denies marriages and runs the family. -ilse?
 Both women were chasing after the men they wanted and were choosing who they
wanted to be with. Usually in Victorian society they should have no power over that at all
-Alex
 I think that in Dorian women have some bit of power as they are important to the plot.
Specifically, the importance of Sybil. Sybil has so much power over Dorian as she caused
the beginning of his downward spiral after he believed that he was the one that made her
kill herself. Furthermore, Sybil had power over her brothers emotions and he was driven
into madness after her death as well. Sybil even came back to haunt Dorian at the end of
the book in the form of her brother emotions at the shooting range.
 During the discussion of who has more power between men and women in the novels, I
wish I could have added how in The Picture of Dorian Gray, women have more power
than one might think. Although the men of the novel are usually dominant, I think the
women in the novel have a really powerful effect on the men, especially in regard to
progression of the plot. Mainly, Sibyl Vain’s effect on Dorian was very important. Sibyl
started the downward spiral of Dorian with her death, and she even affects her brother as
he also goes mad over her death. Sibyl holds a very important role in the novel as she
creates Dorian’s first step of sin and crime. We also see Lord Henry’s wife assert power
as she doesn’t just let Lord Henry cheat on her, but she cheats on him too. Although this
gives power to the women in the novel, I think the men still have more power overall.
Just the pure dominance that Lord Henry has over everyone around him speaks to the
power of the men in the novel. I think these ideas could have added more to the
discussion because it brings in more depth to the men versus women question within The
Picture of Dorian Gray. It is a little bland to just say the obvious fact that men assert
more power in this book.
 Through the discussions, I learned about both the differences and similarities that two
authors can have in their writing style and how that can affect the meaning of their
literature. Specifically, I learned about how Wilde and Pulley’s different uses of gender
prejudice, fate, and freewill altered the meaning of their books. For example, Wilde’s use
of free will is more representative of destruction as Dorian gets destroyed by the choices
he makes. On the other hand, Pulley uses the freewill in a more positive, although selfish,
manner as we see Mori use it to build his friendship with Thaniel. We do continue to see
a similar type of destruction between Pulley and Wilde, however, because Mori uses his
freewill to murder a few people, although in his eyes it was for good. Another thing I
learned was that people have different interpretations of every little detail in the text. For
example, while some people think Dorian had free will in the book, others, like
Alexander, believe he lost his freewill and his future was up to fate. These two ideas that
I learned about helped me think of the different possibilities of intentions behind each
character and book. Not everything is set in stone in any of these books, and although
there might be an intended overall theme, the way the author accomplishes that theme
will be up to the reader. Although, the reader may be guided by the different techniques
and style used by the author.