Unknown old-school RPGs (70s)

Thread starter Sosthenes Start date Nov 5, 2020

1
2
3
4

Next
Sosthenes
Sosthenes
Disturbing Your Circles
Validated User

Nov 5, 2020

#1

If you look at Wikipedia's list of RPGs, there are some pretty interesting releases from the 70s. As
the "OSR" is mostly a "OD&DR", I haven't heard a lot about most of them. Sure, RuneQuest,
Traveller, even Bushido are quite known, but there are some games that I rarely see discussed.
Google gets you something for most of them, but I'd like to hear more actual read/play stories.

So to get things rolling:

- Starfaring - early SFRPG by Ken St. Andre. Any relations to T&T?

- The Realm of Yolmi - Sounds like a Geocities page, but apparently an early SF heartbreaker?
- Bifrost - apparently quite complex, at least for the 70s
- High Fantasy - Yet another class-based fantasy game, before "yet another" mattered?
- What Price Glory? - What Information Game?
- Ysgarth - I have hazy memories of reading one HTML-based version on the author's page (I think
he sells fonts and went all politics now)
- Ironhedge - The Wiki page reads like D&D meets Timecube

brettmb
brettmb
That Precis Guy
Validated User

Nov 6, 2020

#2

Haven't played it, but I have both the first and second editions of High Fantasy. Percentage-based
with lots of setting material and adventures for the second edition. The author and his daughter
seem to be producing new fiction based on the setting.

I also have the boxed set of Ironhedge. It's odd, but playable and has a lot of adventure ideas. The
format is not helpful except for ideas, but the rules are quite simple.
Ysgarth is complex, with lots of stuff going on.

What Price Glory was released as a free PDF with permission of the authors. Not sure what to make
of it. Seems overly complicated.

MeMeMe
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 6, 2020

#3

Ysgarth is the only one of those I recognise. I had most if not all of the original little booklets. I
have some fondness for it, but little actual memory of it it. I was startled to see a few years ago a
full sized rpg rulebook for a 6th edition, though i dont know how recent it was. It seems to have
survived at least a decade or two though and may still have fans.

Tom B
Tom B
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 6, 2020

#4

I still have a couple of Ysgarth books. It was one of the earliest rulesets that was crunchy and didn't
use levels for progression. I think Runequest predated it by a year, but there's not a lot of
similarities. I used to discuss it a bit with Dave Nalle and played in a game or two.

MartinP
MartinP
Registered User
RPGnet Member
Validated User

Nov 7, 2020

#5

I have some of the Ysgarth books in the attic (found them a couple of months ago while looking for
something else) that were given to me as a present at the start of the 90's. Didn't actually have
enough of them to play the game, strangely enough, so I never did anything with them.

RobertEdwards
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 7, 2020

#6
I have a copy of the 1982 revised second edition of Ysgarth. And most of a second copy, with the
first little yellow character creation pamphlet missing.

I very vaguely remember seeing "High Fantasy" in the Johnson City Tennessee mall bookstore,
around then. But I might be confusing it with another game of the same era. Reston Publishing?

I've glanced through a copy of Starfaring, doesn't seem to have much in common with Tunnels and
Trolls, certainly not as much as the later Mercenaries Spies and Private Eyes.

RobertEdwards
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 7, 2020

#7

Interesting notes regarding "Bifrost" from a co-author of volume 3.

Bifrost Role Playing Game Resurrected
bifrostrpg.blogspot.com bifrostrpg.blogspot.com

Apparently: a magician could kill themselves casting too powerful magic, if they overspent energy.

Piratecat
Piratecat
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 7, 2020

#8

I have copies of Spawn of Fashan, but that was '81.

d(sqrt(-1))
Die of Cold
RPGnet Member
Validated User

Nov 7, 2020

#9

I have all 4 volumes of Bifrost, they were released over several years AFAIR. I remember Ysgarth
but never saw a copy

Sosthenes
Sosthenes
Disturbing Your Circles
Validated User
 Nov 7, 2020

#10

I guess the Ysgarth variant I remember isn't online anymore. I'm pretty sure it was all a huge chunk
of HTML, and I was quite impressed by the layout back then (this was probably with Netscape 3 or
4). Simulationist sounds like right up my alley, so maybe I should try getting my hand on it. A later
edition seems available on Amazon…

Since starting this thread, I did get a copy of "Heroes" from 1979 (bought it), which looks quite
fascinating. Bribery rules are longer than combat rules. Looks more like a Dark Ages simulator than
a miniatures combat system… Somehow I quite like old-fashioned typewriter-based RPG layouts…

And oh my, I did get that What Price Glory PDF. Thanks a lot for making me aware of that brettmb
brettmb , I feel like this will be a rabbit hole I'll descend into for a while. Seems like a mediocre
scan of a dot matrix printout, with a disregard towards whitespace. But the content is really
fascinating to me. Action points, hexes, fatigue points in both combat and magic, a divine magic
system that you fuel by actually performing good/evil deeds, scalable monsters…

Prev

1
2
3
4

Next
Scurrilous
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#11

I had High Fantasy and Star Faring. The interesting thing about High Fantasy is its down time
mechanics for each class that tie up their money and get them neat extras. Wizards can learn to cast
spells without their book. Beast masters raise better animal companions. Fighters train fighters.
Alchemists concoct potions.

Starfaring (a player character simulation) isn't at all like Tunnels and Trolls. It's, well, more like a
free form wargame where each class does its own thing. Merchants trade, mercenaries fight, pirates
raid shipping and so on. But you accumulate individual power and resources like a roleplaying
game. I'm afraid it didn't survive my pre-marriage purge.

Von Ether
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020
 #12

There was Chivalry and Sorcery as well in 1977.

RobertEdwards
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#13

Von Ether said:

There was Chivalry and Sorcery as well in 1977.

C&S hardly qualifies as unknown though, or does it?

I'd count it as a second-tier game along with Runequest, Tunnels and Trolls, or Traveller. Maybe
just because I had a copy, and saw coverage in the fan press.

d(sqrt(-1))
Die of Cold
RPGnet Member
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#14

C&S also just released its 5th edition

MeMeMe
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#15

RobertEdwards said:
C&S hardly qualifies as unknown though, or does it?

I'd count it as a second-tier game along with Runequest, Tunnels and Trolls, or Traveller. Maybe
just because I had a copy, and saw coverage in the fan press.

I think that was a response to Scurrilous in the post before, pointing out the C&S also had downtime
mechanics like those.

RobertEdwards
Registered User
Validated User
 Nov 8, 2020

#16

MeMeMe said:
I think that was a response to Scurrilous in the post before, pointing out the C&S also had
downtime mechanics like those.

That's true, C&S very much did. Being a magician was all about project management.

TheMouse
TheMouse
garmonbozia
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#17

Sosthenes said:
- The Realm of Yolmi - Sounds like a Geocities page, but apparently an early SF heartbreaker?

I misread that as the Realm of Yomi, and I was wondering what the Shinto land of the dead had to
do with science fiction.

Sosthenes
Sosthenes
Disturbing Your Circles
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#18

TheMouse said:
I misread that as the Realm of Yomi, and I was wondering what the Shinto land of the dead had
to do with science fiction.

Hey, I initially read it as the "Realm of Yoni", which, well...

TheMouse
TheMouse
garmonbozia
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#19

Sosthenes said:
Hey, I initially read it as the "Realm of Yoni", which, well...
What happens in the 70s stays in the 70s?

I'm pretty sure that's a time travel rule.

Scurrilous
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#20

High Fantasy's downtime rules were quite different from C&S though, more concrete and specific.
Spell books in High Fantasy are a living extension of the wizard and you have to take pages out of
the book to make magic items and potions. Most of the spells can only be cast with the book and a
major part of a wizard's down time is spent trying to strip down the spells to a simple mnemonic. It
also gets into the advantages of training for fighters. I think the alchemists had access to gunpowder
and making that in quantities was part of their schtick, but it's been a long time since I had a copy so
I'm not sure.

Prev

1
2
3
4

Next
DreadDomain
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#21

Sosthenes said:
If you look at Wikipedia's list of RPGs, there are some pretty interesting releases from the 70s.
As the "OSR" is mostly a "OD&DR", I haven't heard a lot about most of them. Sure, RuneQuest,
Traveller, even Bushido are quite known, but there are some games that I rarely see discussed.
Google gets you something for most of them, but I'd like to hear more actual read/play stories.

I am not answering the question but I thought it was interesting to see that from the 70s, only three
games had enough staying power to make it through the 2020s. The first tier is composed of only
D&D/AD&D, far ahead of the pack. RuneQuest and Traveller form the second tier which, despite
lulls, remained fairly popular throughout and are still thriving today. The rest can be divided in a
third tier composed of games who remained on the fringe, retained a modest following or were
revived (sometimes multiple times). This tier is mostly composed of Tunnels and Trolls, Chivalry &
Sorcery, Gamma World, Bushido and Vilains and Vigilante. The fourth and last tier is made of
mostly forgotten games.

Spartan
Spartan
Tarpit Gamer
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#22

Beasts, Men & Gods by Bill Underwood. What a neat little game. So much depth in a tiny little
book, and it's been re-released too.

Edit: it was from 1980 so it missed the cutoff, but hey close enough. ;)

RobertEdwards
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#23

DreadDomain said:
I am not answering the question but I thought it was interesting to see that from the 70s, only
three games had enough staying power to make it through the 2020s. The first tier is composed of
only D&D/AD&D, far ahead of the pack. RuneQuest and Traveller form the second tier which,
despite lulls, remained fairly popular throughout and are still thriving today. The rest can be divided
in a third tier composed of games who remained on the fringe, retained a modest following or were
revived (sometimes multiple times). This tier is mostly composed of Tunnels and Trolls, Chivalry &
Sorcery, Gamma World, Bushido and Vilains and Vigilante. The fourth and last tier is made of
mostly forgotten games.

I was gonna call you out on Champions and Call of Cthulu, but I checked Wikipedia: both from
1981.

Spikey
Spikey
Mean Mm-Mm Servant of God
RPGnet Member
Validated User

Nov 8, 2020

#24

Spartan said:
Beasts, Men & Gods by Bill Underwood. What a neat little game. So much depth in a tiny little
book, and it's been re-released too.
It has? When?

DreadDomain
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 9, 2020

#25

RobertEdwards said:
I was gonna call you out on Champions and Call of Cthulu, but I checked Wikipedia: both from
1981.

It is in fact because Champions and CoC are early 80s that I realised so few games from the 70's
endured, only 3! That number rises considerably when we add games that saw the day of light in the
80s

brettmb
brettmb
That Precis Guy
Validated User

Nov 9, 2020

#26

Spikey said:
It has? When?

Beasts, Men & Gods Revised 2nd Edition: Underwood, Bill: 9781461064701: Amazon.com: Books
Beasts, Men & Gods Revised 2nd Edition [Underwood, Bill] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on
qualifying offers. Beasts, Men & Gods Revised 2nd Edition
www.amazon.com

Sosthenes
Sosthenes
Disturbing Your Circles
Validated User

Nov 9, 2020

#27

DreadDomain said:
I am not answering the question but I thought it was interesting to see that from the 70s, only
three games had enough staying power to make it through the 2020s.

The most interesting of those would be Traveller. Besides D&D being the first game and pretty
much a proprietary eponym for the whole concept of an RPG, it and RQ benefitted from corporate
support, so most other games never really had a chance.
Bruce Redux
Not flying or biting
RPGnet Member
Validated User

Nov 9, 2020

#28

Sosthenes said:
Hey, I initially read it as the "Realm of Yoni", which, well...

kustenjaeger
kustenjaeger
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 9, 2020

#29

Looking at the Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tabletop_role-

playing_games) many of the games listed under the 1970s seem to fall into the middle ground of
not completely forgotten. I had forgotten how many I had actually seen - though several in post
1970s editions.

Regards

Edward

Sosthenes
Sosthenes
Disturbing Your Circles
Validated User

Nov 9, 2020

#30

Bruce Redux said:

Click to expand...

Huh? Apparently I crossed the boomer threshold by not understanding that meme in context.

Prev

1
2
3
 4

Bruce Redux
Not flying or biting
RPGnet Member
Validated User

Nov 9, 2020

#31

Thoughts of yoni -> thoughts of dicks.

d(sqrt(-1))
Die of Cold
RPGnet Member
Validated User

Nov 22, 2020

#32

brettmb said:
Beasts, Men & Gods Revised 2nd Edition: Underwood, Bill: 9781461064701: Amazon.com:
Books
Beasts, Men & Gods Revised 2nd Edition [Underwood, Bill] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping
on qualifying offers. Beasts, Men & Gods Revised 2nd Edition
www.amazon.com

I'd never heard of this (not surprising as it was probably never available in the UK) so I bought a
copy from Amazon. It quite reminds me of Chivalry & Sorcery 1e (even down to the section
headers), although not quite as complex. Looks like quite an interesting system.

RobertEdwards
Registered User
Validated User

Nov 22, 2020

#33

I remember an obscure one: Space Quest from Tyr Gamemakers. Owned it, remember I bought it in
Knoxville, or possibly Farragat from a store on Kingston Pike. Have no idea what I did with it.

Had an interesting character class weapon restriction ala D&D Clerics. "Energy shall never do harm
in the hands of a Technic guild brother". Engineers were not allowed to use blasters, only stunners
or gunpowder weapons. IIRC, Technics had powers to boost the output of generators and other
machinery via qusimagical methods.

Sosthenes
Sosthenes
Disturbing Your Circles
Validated User

Nov 22, 2020

#34

I actually ordered it and I'm currently perusing it. It's not as interesting as What Price Glory, being
closer to what would be called a "heartbreaker" later on: Elves and dwarves are classes, thieves start
with really low skills etc.. As usual, the combat system tries to be more detailed and, erm,
"realistic".

Both seem to do the typewritten text + blackletter headings. I wonder how the latter was done back
in the day...

d(sqrt(-1))
Die of Cold
RPGnet Member
Validated User

Nov 22, 2020

#35

Sosthenes said:
I actually ordered it and I'm currently perusing it. It's not as interesting as What Price Glory,
being closer to what would be called a "heartbreaker" later on: Elves and dwarves are classes,
thieves start with really low skills etc.. As usual, the combat system tries to be more detailed and,
erm, "realistic".

Both seem to do the typewritten text + blackletter headings. I wonder how the latter was done
back in the day...

I imagine via Letraset rubdown transfers (or the American equivalent)