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September 21 2010

15 Things I Learned from the Pick Up Artist Community

After spending five years in the Pick Up Artist community, I’ve taken my leave. For various reasons, I’m
stepping away from the scene and disassociating myself from it completely. But to commemorate the amount
of growth and introspection being a part of that community has inspired in me, I figured I’d leave behind a
little wisdom as I go. Here are the 15 most important things I learned after spending five years in the PUA
community.

1. Men find and join the PUA community to get validation from women. They stay in it to get validation
from other men.

2. Guys who are trying to bang 101 girls are usually motivated by their own emotional problems, not
biology.

3. The single biggest factor stopping you (and me) from improving is an inability to overcome our fears and
anxieties. Whether it be the fear of rejection, fear of success, fear of change, fear of failure, fear of intimacy,
fear of sexuality — if you removed all fear, all of our sticking points would either vanish, or work
themselves out almost immediately.

4. The only rule is calibration, the rest is a recommendation.

5. An attractive and abundant lifestyle will trump the best “game” in the world, ten times out of ten. It’s also
a far more enjoyable way of meeting women and making friends than cold approach.

6. Always assume she’s feeling the same way as you until proven otherwise. If you feel awkward and
annoyed, then she probably does too. If you’re falling head over heels for her, she probably is too.

7. You’re never as bad with women as you think you are. You’re also never as good with women as you think
you are. In fact, you have far less control in the matter than you think. Get over yourself.

8. Sex gets 90% of our attention, but 90% of “game” comes down to handling emotions. The sex is a side-
effect.
9. Most dating advice will tell you that getting good with women is easy but a complicated process to learn.
The opposite is true. Improving with women is actually very easy to learn, but hard to actually go out and do.

10. Having a healthy and happy long-term relationship will teach you as much about women as talking to
5,000 women and 100 lays.

11. When in doubt, always err on the side of being more aggressive.

12. Two qualities show me how good a guy is with women: how much he thinks he controls the seduction
process and how well he handles rejection. The more a guy recognizes how much he doesn’t control, the
better he is. The more a guy embraces getting rejected, the better he is. It’s the guys who claim to know
everything and who claim to never get rejected that are clueless. Beware of them.

13. Things that are vastly overrated, if not completely useless: preventing flakes, openers, AMOG’ing and
Boyfriend destroyers, state control, social proof, value.

14. Things that are vastly underrated if not completely ignored: non-verbal communication, listening well,
empathizing and relating, being passionate about something, emotional connections, social circles,
movement.

15. Looking back, here are the only major things the community taught me that I think my own experience
didn’t or couldn’t have: the importance of dominance and expressing my sexuality (thanks David Deida,
Robert Glover and Hypnotica), that it’s OK to hit on girls and want to fuck them (thanks Mystery and Style),
and that our logical mind will usually rationalize whatever our emotions already feel (thanks David D). The
rest of community material, by and large, I’ve found to either be a corollary to one of the above, or
completely trivial or useless.

The vast majority of what I learned, I learned through my own experiences (mostly my failures), discussions
with wings/friends, and by simply being aware and observing other people and naturals. And of course, my
real teachers were the thousands of women I’ve interacted with over the last five years. From the ones who
loved me to the ones who blew me out, thank you.

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60 Comments

Leave a Comment

1 2 Next »
Reply

Rob Judge
5 months ago

This is the best post I’ve read in a long time.

Reply

s-man

5 months ago

Very true! Although I do not agree on the thing with state control.

Sure, many guys refer to it as being happy and in the zone where things flow. That’s nice but I am
talking more about being able getting yourself in state for overcoming the fears that hold you back.

Everybody has felt confidence. For example, if I tell you to put your clothes while eyes are closed.
Even though nobody has done it before (unless doing stuff in elevator ) people will probably feel
confident doing it. When doing cold approach pickup it’d be awesome being able to feel the same
amount of confidence or other states.

So, viva la state control

Moreover, being able to get into happy mood or feeling peaceful is a valuable tool in life, not only in
pickup.

Cheers!

s-man
PuaCottage – http://www.puacottage.com

Reply

schubiiiiiiiiiiiidu
5 months ago
mmmmh i guess i have to bang 100 girls than.. :O

Reply

Kevin
5 months ago

Can you expand on, “6. Always assume she’s feeling the same way as you. If you feel awkward and
annoyed, then she probably does too. If you’re falling head over heels for her, she probably is too.”?

I think I get what you mean here, but I’m not totally sure.

Reply

Entropy

5 months ago

Kevin: You can never know how a woman is feeling for certain, and a lot of guys go nuts about this
uncertainty, creating anxiety, self-doubt, etc.

I’ve found in my experience, that often (not all the time, but often), emotions are reciprocal. So
whatever you’re feeling, she’s feeling either the same thing, or a similar emotion proportionately.

I’ve just found that it’s a great assumption to act on because it basically assumes whatever result you’d
like, which then gives you the necessary confidence to act. Once you act on it, you can correct later.
But honestly, I’m still amazed years later how often I’m right, how often she’s feeling the same thing
at the same time as I am.

This is probably the only thing that I actually figured out pre-community that I still use with every girl
I meet. So I guess I didn’t learn it these five years, but these last five years have just solidified how
important of a tool it is (for me at least).

Reply

Bobby Rio
5 months ago

Great stuff man…

Reply

JT
5 months ago

Great stuff…resonated with my own experiences, coming up on two years.

Reply

Alex

5 months ago

Awesome list…you got me thinking about #2 (“if you want to bang 100 girls you need a GF”).

Pre-community I’d have 3-6 months relationships to nowhere, with girls I’d like but come to realize I
would never love, all from social circle or occasionally online. Since throwing myself into cold
approach, I’ve met way more girls total…but the ones who feel like keepers are still few and far
between, and my strategy with them has always been to try for casual. Not too successfully yet–I’m
very much still learning–but I’ll get there eventually.

I figured I need a time of wild pointless hook-ups to get it out of my system before I try for anything
committed. Perhaps I need to reconsider…

Reply

Jason
5 months ago

I designed a game called Rejection Therapy back in 2009 to encourage myself to get out of my
comfort zone more.

If anyone wants to try it, it’s here: http://rejectiontherapy.com

Reply

Brett
5 months ago

Great article man, I can’t tell you how much most (if not all) of this resonates with me. Especially
3,4,6,7,11,14, and 15 are all realizations I’ve probably had over the last year that I’m slowly working
on internalizing into my subconscious.

The ONLY thing I will argue with you about is the value of, well…value. And my guess is that it’s just
a semantics thing between us. I think that you need to have value in the eyes of the women. It’s just
that there’s no “universal law” for defining value. One woman might value big muscles, while another
woman values intelligence, etc. People tend to work on the things that they value, thus women who are
attracted to us are going to tend to value the same things we value. I don’t care how good your “game”
is, if you’re an intellectual that enjoys reading novels and have never been to a nightclub in your life,
you probably don’t have as good of a shot with a paris hilton type girl as some promoter who has
bottle service and a Tony Montana-esque supply of coke. Even if you have as much or more
“intellectual value” as the guy has coke or bottle service value (I think the exchange rate goes 2 books
= a night of bottle service, and 8 books = a kilo of cocain…or whatever).

The last thought is that working on your “lifestyle” as you say in #5, in one way or another is also
working on your “value”

Reply

Dude

5 months ago

Good stuff as usual

can you expand on #2…I don’t really understand where you’re coming from with that.

Reply

sleven
5 months ago
Just wondering if you could address something about #14, it seems as though no amount of techniques
in this area actually help, its like you just gotta screw it up a bunch of times and find the right way
yourself, if you have anything you could add to in terms of tips in this area would be helpful but I
honestly see it as something thats just has to be done.

Reply

Alpha Monkey
5 months ago

pretty legit list

particularly agree with #14 (+relaxed body language!!) and #15

disagree with “value’ at #13, giving value is legit

Reply

schubiiiiiiiiiiiidu

5 months ago

nice post! i guess i have to bang 100 girls now…

Reply

schubiiiiiiiiiiiidu
5 months ago

awesome post…i guess i have to bang a girlfriend now..no..wait

Reply
Paul

5 months ago

Again, your new content is great.

You’ve obviously gone through/are going through a learning curve and are exploring new
perspectives.

Great insights, great advice! You’re doing a good service for the community.

Reply

Joe

5 months ago

No 1. is an excellent point, if you gave someone the chance to sleep with a perfect 10 BUT he couldn’t
tell anyone about it and know one would know – most dudes wouldn’t take your offer.

For most men picking up women is more about the ego validation they will get from other men than
the sex.

Reply

Rexford

2 months ago

Wtf of course thy would its a perfect 10, u must be talking about your homosexual buddies…

Reply

ryan

5 months ago

One of the most direct to the point posts I’ve read.

Every post should be like this!
Reply

David Nelson
5 months ago

Brilliant, man!

The truth is.

I thought I knew everything about women and nothing about myself.
Actually,
It is the other way around.
I know everything about myself.
I know absolutely nothing about women.

Reply

stunned

5 months ago

great comments, great stuff

Reply

Entropy
5 months ago

Dude: #2 is a massive generalization, but here’s where it comes from. Usually guys who think they
want to bang everything that moves, really they’re just compensating for a lack of confidence and a
fear of intimacy that only a girlfriend can provide.

On the other hand, guys who desperately want a girlfriend often are trying to get one to cover up their
lack of confidence in themselves. So in this way, they should go out and bang a bunch of women to
build their belief in themselves up.
 Reply

gabe
3 months ago

Hey Mark,
Do you still believe this? That a guy needs to go out and bang a bunch of chicks to be confident?

Reply

Toryn

5 months ago

#10 was a pleasant surprise to read. That’s a relatively recent realization for you, obviously stemming
from your time with we-both-know-who, no? Within the past year or so?

Reply

guckmal
5 months ago

Best post of the year!!!

Very nice!!!

Reply

Florian

5 months ago

Excellent. You could be the Eckhart Tolle of game

But with one point I can´t agree: value & social proof are overrated or even useless? Come on…

Cheers,
Florian from Germany (we met each other in Cologne with Sharkk last year, on the way to the seminar,
remember?)

Reply

Entropy
5 months ago

Value: not useless (I used to teach it a lot), but definitely overrated. Emotion trumps value every time. I
also think it’s a poor way to look at things once you get into relationships.

Social proof: totally overrated. Girls really don’t care who else you’re talking to in the club. Social
circle, absolutely… having mutual friends is huge. But social proof? Borderline worthless.

Reply

DIO

5 months ago

You managed to cram years of wisdom into a one concise, and insightful post

Reply

Nick
5 months ago

Nice post man, im a newbie so that means i need to get a girlfriend? lol

Reply
Entropy

5 months ago

@Nick: If you’ve never had a girlfriend, then yes. Probably the best thing you could do.

Reply

"45"

5 months ago

“An attractive and abundant lifestyle…”

The problem I’ve come across with PUA’s is that they want to teach you THEIR lifestyle so that you
can replicate it. (Based on what you’ve written, I don’t believe you do this.) I think this needs to be
defined by each guy.

There is a distinct impression out there that an “abundant lifestyle” means being a mini-celebrity, limos
filled with girls, gold watches, dressing like Steven Tyler on a bad hair day, having an “Entourage”-
like group of friends, and VIP tables in Vegas.

This may be somebody’s definition of an abundant lifestyle, but it’s not universally applicable. This is
something a lot of guys, in my experience, don’t “get”.

I’m a quiet guy whose life goal is to stay at home on my wraparound deck watching the sunset while
reading Locke’s Two Treatises of Government and watching “Monk”. My girlfriend sits next to me
reading an art book while sipping wine. We’re talking about our upcoming trip to the UK.

She appreciates the fact that I have few friends (because most people annoy me), that I hate crowded
and noisy places, that I can cook Indian food, and that I grow tomatoes… but most of all she loves the
fact that I’m not interested in impressing ANYBODY and more than anything want to be left alone and
live life mostly anonymous.

Now THAT’s abundant to me.

(Oh, and great post! Your thinking is evolving into a much higher level and I love it.)

Reply

Rhythm

4 months ago

I think that a good lifestyle is one that leads to happiness, that means also that you do what you
want, how you want on condition that it has to work. Yeah, I think the indicator is simple.
Reply

Entropy
5 months ago

“There is a distinct impression out there that an “abundant lifestyle” means being a mini-celebrity,
limos filled with girls, gold watches, dressing like Steven Tyler on a bad hair day, having an
“Entourage”-like group of friends, and VIP tables in Vegas.

This may be somebody’s definition of an abundant lifestyle, but it’s not universally applicable. This is
something a lot of guys, in my experience, don’t “get”.”

This is huge, huge, huge, huge… Thanks for posting this. Agree 1000%. This is also the huge problem
I have with how the concept of “Value” is taught in the PUA community. Rock star limo lifestyle with
dozens of super models walking around.

No, an abundant lifestyle is this: a job you love, a nice place you love, friends you love, hobbies you
love, and a rich and fun social life. Whether that revolves around ComicCon, Burning Man, Las Vegas
casinos, playing live jazz, salsa dancing, sailing, or playing golf — who cares. It’s what you decide
you love.

@Toryn: Relatively recent… I think I mentioned it now and again while I was with her. But yeah, you
know who.

Reply

Andy Anderson

5 months ago

Great post Entropy!

I especially agree with this one:

10. Having a healthy and happy long-term relationship will teach you as much about women as 5,000
cold approaches and 100 lays.

Before I got into the game, a little over 3 years ago, I was in a 3.5 year relationship. I learned so much
about how to deal with women and their little quips. So much that it became natural. Of course though,
I need to learn how to open, transistion, and all that non-sense:)

Going through your other post right now. Thanks man!

Andy Anderson
http://www.SocialChemistry.net
Reply

DeeFrame
5 months ago

Will agree with most things above.

Being open to new experiences really helps.

Releasing Judgments, has helped me personally. ( I have tried to eliminate wording negatives like “No
judgements” ). I try to realize I still have them at times and release them.

Liking people and making other people’s lives better without trying to get anything from them or in
return.

Those are a few things off the top of my head.

“Calibration” is a word like escalation that I have hard time knowing what that means when people say
it.

I know what calibration means to me, adjusting to the experience accordingly, but seems like it has
myriad of meanings to others.

You must Go Out constantly to grasp calibration at even at its initial terms. Telling a beginner “to
calibrate” is like explaining what Mount Everest is like…….Peace…..D

Reply

DocJay

5 months ago

Like some others I disagree with discounting social proof. How many times have you been blown off
by a girl, only to have her re-approach you after she’s seen you work the room, and talk to other hot
girls?

I live in hollywood. Here, where everyone is trying to be a celebrity, social proof reigns supreme. Can
you get laid without it? Sure. But if you want the pick of the litter, you better be a celeb to her. Why do
you think girls pack themselves into clubs with an 8-1 girl-guy ratio? Besides the validation, its to get
a crack at the most socially proofed guy in the room. My club promoter roommate’s lay rate increased
100 fold when he became a promoter.

Again, I may be biased by where I live, but I believe that if you want the attention of the 10 in the
corner, you better work the surrounding area first!
Reply

Luis
5 months ago

I’m a bit confused on the #12, on the absence of control of the seduction process. Is it about having
process focussed goals as you say in older post, or it’s something like Zan’s talk of “the seducer
seduced by the beauty of the woman”?

Thanks foor this post!

Reply

PUA Bloggers

5 months ago

Read awesome and serious advice after such a longtime..

Reply

Entropy
5 months ago

“Like some others I disagree with discounting social proof. How many times have you been blown off
by a girl, only to have her re-approach you after she’s seen you work the room, and talk to other hot
girls?”

Haha, uh, never?

I think you’re right. It is a location thing. I could see it being huge in LA and London. On the east
coast, girls seem to get annoyed when they see you working the room, and don’t take you as seriously.

Luis: The best “seducers” in the world, bat 1/10 or worse. If we really had so much control in the
matter, we’d be doing a lot better than that percentage. Truth be told, women hold most of the power
prior to sex. They are the one’s who ultimately decide, “Am I sleeping with this guy or not?”
Unfortunately, there’s only so much we can do. There are so many external factors that affect pick
up… the time of the month for her, the day of the week, what her friends think, her mood, how drunk
she is, maybe her dog died yesterday… all of these things are factors and we have absolutely no
control over it.

Reply

Eros
5 months ago

Social proof is highly variable, it really tends to depend on each individual girl and on the location
you’re at. Nevertheless, it’s dynamite at the right time and place. I used to be unsure if it really worked
until I had one experience that really confirmed it’s potential value. Basically I entered a house party,
where I hugged the host, went up to a couple of friends I hadn’t seen in a while who showed how
happy they were to see me, another friend who’d seen me enter the room bought me over a drink, and
then I opened up two guys who were sort of bored and isolated from the rest of the party and got them
talking. Then this super cute blonde opened me and just started leading the conversation crazily. I said
nothing special, threw out one tease, and pretty soon she was completely opening up to me and telling
me things like how she’d only slept with one guy her whole life. I had a girlfriend at the time so I
didn’t pursue it, but I took her number and remained in contact. Having gotten to know her since that
night, I can safely say she never would usually have acted like that.

The reason she did is because she made a million assumptions about me from the first couple of
minutes I spent when I entered the room, and the interactions I was having with others. Yeah you can
argue it was because I was confident in my entrance, or that I had good body language, or that she
might have overheard a conversation I was having and pulled some DHVs out of it, but you’re missing
the point if you do. She saw how I interacted with others, and made assumptions about me as a result.

When you say: “Girls seem to get annoyed when they see you working the room” it makes me think
you’ve confused preselection with social proof. If you’re talking to girls and flirting with them then
yeah that’s social proof, but it’s also going to set off triggers that you’re putting on a persona. Whereas
if you’re just acting normally with both guys and girls, and your friends are buying you drinks or
people listen and don’t talk over you when you talk, or their body language indicates they’re deferring
to you, then others observing will see this as the real you. Social proof is very basically: proof of
positive (ones that create attraction, comfort, etc) qualities from observing your interactions with
others.

It should be obvious why this can be so effective; it’s a confirmation of the qualities you claim to have
when you interact with them, and also a form of social pressure. Ever have someone in your social
group you hated but you put up with because everyone else seemed to love (or at least respect) them?
That’s the power of social proof. Peer pressure to give it an uglier name.

Reply

Entropy

5 months ago
See I draw a distinction between social circle and social proof. I’ve had that same experience many
times Eros, mostly at house parties. I think the value there is two things: 1) the fact that the people are
mutual ACQUAINTANCES, the fact that she sees her friends hugging you and excited to see you, and
2) a placebo effect on you, in that seeing all of these people you know makes you socially confident
and you’re able to approach cold sets better.

What I was referring to was like a club or bar environment full of nothing but strangers. The idea that
you open five sets, get them all to like you and then the 6th set will magically automatically love you
because they saw you with the first five. I don’t buy that. In my experience, most people don’t care
unless you’re talking to people they already know and are friends with. And like I said, in many
instances I’ve opened that sixth set and the girl is just like, “So, you’re hitting on every girl here
tonight,” and immediately turned off because they don’t think I’m genuine.

I guess what I’m calling it overrated for is this idea that like, if you get some mediocre girl to be all
over your shit, then suddenly the super hottie across the room is going to want to talk to you whereas
before she didn’t. I just don’t think super hot girls care enough. Everybody’s 10x more concerned with
themselves and their immediate group than what some random guy is doing on the other side of the
club.

Reply

Eros
5 months ago

Interesting arguments. I guess I haven’t really gone out enough in the US to judge this yet. In NZ
where I’m from social proof doesn’t generally work because everyone our age goes to nightclubs and
they’re just way too cramped to notice what’s going on in half the room. On the other hand, it
definitely does work in bars (when there are hotties, which is far and few between) if there’s a lot of
free movement and people milling about. People just tend to be looking around from time to time, and
the people who command attention somehow stick out in the room. Anyway, probably time for more
research on this.

On that topic, here’s an LR that could be worth dissecting:

http://www.theattractionforums.com/braddock/61183-lr-poppin-my-colla-partna-nyc-lay-report.html

If you’re arguing for the power of social proof then you’d say that the interactions he had with other
people after getting blown out by the girl were just confirmations of the characteristics of non-
reactivity and of high social status that he showed when he was talking to her. On the other hand,
clearly this girl prioritized social status more than other girls might, and she only would’ve been
watching him after blowing him out, and wouldn’t have noticed otherwise.

Reply

Matt T

5 months ago
 @Entropy: Wow, really well-written post.

I honestly don’t think men join the seduction community because they want more sex. That’s just a
symptom of larger problems. Many men, myself included, have faced ostracism, humiliation, and
disempowerment for a number of years, and see the seduction community as our one chance to
overcome that.

In my opinion, it’s not about the ho’s. It’s only kinda about the feeling of power and glory. What men
want most from the seduction community is agency.

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