Podcast Script:

Julia: Hello! And welcome back to Learning Grammar Good, I am Julia Falk– professor and
assistant dean here at Michigan State University and today I am here with a very special guest, if
you would like to introduce yourself…

Patrick: Hi hello everyone, my name is Patrick Hartwell and I am a professor of English at the
University of Pennsylvania. Thank you for having me on this amazing podcast today, I’m
honored to be here.

Julia: Well we are very honored to have you here. So, Patrick, today we’ll be talking about
grammar… as we always do here, of course. Would you like to kick start our topic for today?

Patrick: I would love to! I’m here today to discuss with you, Julia, the formal writing
conventions and meaning of grammar in this regard. As you know, I have written a bit about this
in my publication, “Grammar, Grammars, and the Teaching of Grammar.”

Julia: Yes, and I’m assuming that you know a little something about grammar then…

Patrick: Haha yes well maybe just a bit. But what I really want to focus on is modern linguistics
and this comparison to traditional conventions that we were taught and why this matters. So,
there are these conventional principles of language– in any language that is, but of course here
we are talking about English. There is a reason, though, why these conventions exist and why we
are taught what we are taught from such an early age.

Julia: That is true…yes, I believe there definitely was a reason but I also believe that things get
outdated. Furthermore, society develops, communication develops and the overall importance of
style and personal expression grows throughout time. We actually discussed this last time when
my good friend Elizabeth Tricomi, who teaches English at SUNY-Binghamton, was here. She
mentioned the implications of grammar errors and the role they play in second language
acquisition because she does have some personal experience with that.

Patrick: No offense, but I mean we are talking about English here, not any other language.

Julia: Yeah and that’s no problem but it is relevant when English is the other language, when
English is what you are trying to learn. We have to make sure to highlight what is really
important when teaching others how to speak fluently and allow for it to sound as smoothly and
naturally as possible and I think that comes with personal style over any grammatical convention
or “rule”. You can’t tell me whenever you speak, you speak with “good grammar”?
Patrick: Haha well yes, I can’t promise that I do because I’m sure there are times when I slip up.

Julia: But my point is that the “slip up” you mention is not really something we should
hyperfocus on especially when teaching both the speaking and writing of English.

Patrick: I have some friends– James Kenkel and Robert Yates, they’re both English professors
but they wrote a journal on the basics of writing and in it they mention the developmental
perspectives on language and grammar. These conventions exist as an academic discipline in
linguistics.

Julia: At the end of the day, we need to look at what is important and choose our priorities– I
believe that expression of feelings and thoughts through communication is what makes language
in any form so beautiful and thus having these “hard rules” on how we should be speaking or
writing is defeating the point of language.

Patrick: Well I guess then it is just a matter of differing priorities. Which I think is fine. I will say
for now, since we are running out of time.

Julia: Yes, we are. But I do agree, and that is why I brought you here today knowing the
differences in opinion we would probably have in regards to all of this. Regardless, thank you so
much for coming out today and we will see you guys in the next one. Bye!
 Works Cited

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